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Itrane2000
11-23-2020, 01:05 PM
Hola
Quiero compartir con vosotros el analisis que he hecho sobre los Moriscos (data de VAHADUO) con un calculador de poblaciones modernas.

41350
41351

mokordo
11-23-2020, 01:16 PM
Gracias por esfuerzo.

Nos faltaría tener muestras de judeo-hispánicos de la época para completar el cuadro.

Seabass
11-23-2020, 01:24 PM
I3808 could well be 1/2 crypto Jewish, 1/4 iberian and 1/4 predominantly Arab, followed by iberian.

Itrane2000
11-23-2020, 01:28 PM
Jewish are included in Middle-east.

mokordo
11-23-2020, 01:59 PM
I3808 could well be 1/2 crypto Jewish, 1/4 iberian and 1/4 predominantly Arab, followed by iberian.

I´ve just saw it.


As per the Supplementary Materials, I3808 is a Muslim (Morisco) female (mtDna H1) from Nécropolis de Torna Alta, Mondújar (Lecrín), Granada, Andalusia (1500–1600 CE). And yes her genetic profile looks Jewish. Her results are similar than Muslim I7499 (1000–1100 CE Cueva Romero, Huéscar, Granada, Andalusia).

Similarity (correlation) using past3/G25 :

I3808 :
Moroccan_Jew 98.73%
I7499 98.62%
Italian_Jew 97.91%
Maltese 97.90%
Sephardic_Jew 97.47%
Libyan_Jew 97.41%
Tunisian_Jew 97.36%
Ashkenazi_Jew 97.16%
Sicilian_West 96.64%

I7499 :
I3808 98.62%
Moroccan_Jew 97.89%
Maltese 96.94%
I3983 96.93%
I7424 96.64%
Italian_Jew 96.55%
Libyan_Jew 96.52%

mokordo
11-23-2020, 02:03 PM
Jewish are included in Middle-east.

You can separate (aproximately) Middle East component in Levantine and Arab-like. They are quite related and close people genetically but results could show us if they tend more to Jewish or other Middle Easterns.

rober_tce
11-23-2020, 02:25 PM
So Middle East in this case is refered to jewish? As I can see, in that graphic are separated Middle East and Arabic cathegories

Itrane2000
11-23-2020, 03:02 PM
So Middle East in this case is refered to jewish? As I can see, in that graphic are separated Middle East and Arabic cathegories

no Middle-east refers to Middle eastern population (Lebaneese, Palestinians, Samaritans, Egyptians). There is no specific cluster for Jewish as Spanish Jews (Sephardic) are mixed population and it will overlap with European population and middle eastern population.

Itrane2000
11-23-2020, 03:03 PM
I have separated arabs from middle east. it is easy to do by selecting non muslim middle-eastern who have received few flux from Arabs.

rober_tce
11-23-2020, 03:07 PM
no Middle-east refers to Middle eastern population (Lebaneese, Palestinians, Samaritans, Egyptians). There is no specific cluster for Jewish as Spanish Jews (Sephardic) are mixed population and it will overlap with European population and middle eastern population.

Middle East would be in this case levantine, that was my doubt, thank you for your answer. As you have said, Sephardim Jewish and the other Western Jewish are a mixed population with a levantine base.

mokordo
11-23-2020, 03:11 PM
I have separated arabs from middle east. it is easy to do by selecting non muslim middle-eastern who have received few flux from Arabs.

Yeah, but when I said "more Arab-like" Middle Eastern I meant from inner countries as inner-Siria/Iraq/Jordania as opposite as coastal/Levantine Middle Easterners as Palestinian/Lebanese.

But it´s ok, your choice can also indicate this ancestry.

Itrane2000
11-23-2020, 03:21 PM
Yes this sample is clearly in the cluster of North African Jew (Morrocan Jews).
here is the PCA41353

Shadogowah
11-24-2020, 10:28 AM
Hola
Quiero compartir con vosotros el analisis que he hecho sobre los Moriscos (data de VAHADUO) con un calculador de poblaciones modernas.

41350
41351

Hi Itrane,

Excuse my absolute ignorance.

Do the berber samples belong to a specific selected group or are they just standard samples of moroccan people in those cities and therefore assumed that they are all imazighen? I mean, are there people in Morocco that identify themselves (due to language or whatever) as berbers respect to some sort of a more (at least culturally) mixed arab-berber population like it happens in Algeria?


Regards,
Victor.

Itrane2000
11-24-2020, 09:37 PM
hello, I have build a calculator suitable for North Africans.
I have clearly separated "Berbers" from other North Africans.
The Berbers I have selected belong to 2 clusters
-South Berber (Mozabite + Berber from Tiznit), I made an average and deleted the samples with too much SSA
-north Berber (Chenini): I have not included Sened as they have too much Arabian admixture.
To find the people, I used UMAP.