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View Full Version : Project update: Z209/S230 Z210 Z215/S357 Z220/S356 Z268/S450 Z271 Z296 Z694



TigerMW
12-01-2020, 02:31 AM
The R-Z209 project at FTDNA has grown quite a bit so I went through each branch and added a subgroup for each branch and indexed them so they appear in the sequence as they do on FTDNA’s haplotree.

I posted an overview descendants tree chart on the About/Results web page. You can download the .PDF version. The .PDF version is easiest to read when zooming in and out or panning. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-z209/about/results
It is a draft version.

The full tree for R1b-Z209 is at the FTDNA web site. There are now 420 downstream branches

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z209

Project has 365 members but I have a spreadsheet of over a thousand that I believe are either confirmed Z209+ of some type or cluster nicely with the North-South cluster.
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-Z209?iframe=yresults

TigerMW
12-01-2020, 02:39 AM
It is important to note this is sub-project of the R-DF27 and R1b All Subclades projects. We do want all Z209+ and descendant people to join as well as North-South cluster predicted Z209 people. However, it is important to stay in these other projects as well.

Th R1b North-South modal haplotype was discovered prior to the discovery of Z209+ and DF27+. North-South is essentially the Super Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype with three exceptions: DYS437=14 DYS448=18 GataH4=10. Fortunately, these are in the Y37 STR marker panel. These STR values are not 100% absolute but generally work. A number of Iberian Z209+ people have the standard GataH4=11. DYS448 can also vary, but DYS437 is almost always =14, though.

Ric
12-01-2020, 06:20 PM
thanks Tiger, i just joined this project.

ADW_1981
12-03-2020, 01:59 AM
Tiger, some of the unidentified groupings you have assigned an abbreviation + STR label. In some cases it looks like you've linked it to an existing surname, but others, I can't for the life of me understand what it means. Thoughts?

TigerMW
12-03-2020, 04:26 AM
Tiger, some of the unidentified groupings you have assigned an abbreviation + STR label. In some cases it looks like you've linked it to an existing surname, but others, I can't for the life of me understand what it means. Thoughts?

Those are labels I assign to STR signatures that I think are reliable. I place these STR based subgroups on to the Y Classic report approximately where I think they fit vis a vis SNP validated subgroups.

The labels are fairly meaningless. I generally take the two most common SNP confirmed surnames in a cluster and take two letters from each surname to come up with an identifying 4 character label. It may seem odd to see only one in a cluster but I am just starting this STR signature analysis and I may have identified 5-6 individuals in a cluster but only one has joined the Z209 project. This is why I want everyone to invite their Y111 and Y67 matches to the project.

We have 350+ individuals in the project but my spreadsheet has about 1100 people who are confirmed or predicted Z209. I have over 30 STR based clusters so far.

TigerMW
12-05-2020, 08:29 PM
I've updated the tip of the iceberg R1b-Z209 Descendants Tree. You can see it here.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-z209/about/results

I tried to add in the most common countries of origin to some of the early and larger branches.

It is interesting to see how continental the branching structure appears. If I had to bet I'd say Z209 started some place like Germany/Switzerland and expanded out of several major cultural horizons:
Kurgan Bell Beakers
Unetice (maybe)
Tumulus
Urnfield
Hallstatt

There are plenty of Spanish too. If there is a subclade of Z209 that is pure Spanish and Basque it would be R-CTS8087.

Given the continental bent for many of Z209's early branching, perhaps (speculation) CTS8087 is what a Celtiberian group looks like.

Full haplotree:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z209

TigerMW
12-07-2020, 04:01 PM
Finally, I am starting to feel like I am getting the subgroups in shape and populated. There is still a long way to go to getting them populated. We need help from everyone. Please...

1) Check the project web pages. Is your surname and variants of it listed? Does the Y Classic display show you in the right subgroup? Have you looked at STR signatures for your subclade?

2) Recruit, recruit, recruit. Please invite all your Y67 and Y111 matches to the project. Please invite any Z209+ or downstream people you see to the project.
Thanks.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-Z209?iframe=yresults

Sean Deven Vincent
12-08-2020, 03:40 PM
Tiger,

Thank you for your work in the 209/220 subclades family. For the most part, the group has been in a sort of gray area. I am in the 209 and subclades project at FtDna. You have me grouped with the older Z209>FGC83504>ZZ40>FGC23351>FGC23343 grouping. With a new tester within the last month or so I have been moved down to R-FT372222.
My kit designation is Vincent 612257. Thank you

TigerMW
12-13-2020, 08:57 PM
Tiger,

Thank you for your work in the 209/220 subclades family. For the most part, the group has been in a sort of gray area. I am in the 209 and subclades project at FtDna. You have me grouped with the older Z209>FGC83504>ZZ40>FGC23351>FGC23343 grouping. With a new tester within the last month or so I have been moved down to R-FT372222.
My kit designation is Vincent 612257. Thank you

I will get you moved. I want the project to have an understandable and objective structure that can be kept up to date. It may seem odd, but the more (relevant) people you have in a project, not only the more informative it is but also the easier to maintain. That's because unpopulated subgroups do not show up on the Y Classic report.

Fortunately, the subclade itself as its own STR signature and the audience of testers is of a size it can be maintained with good detail.