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Amber29
12-25-2020, 10:26 AM
Hi all,

Just curious about this haplogroup found in South Asia and its origins. Would be nice to know peoples input....i have looked into autosomal, DNA matches and all see some sort of pattern as this is relevant to family member...

Thanks!

J1 DYS388=13
12-25-2020, 02:16 PM
What company uses the notation K1a12a1/a? Is that the same thing as K1a12a1a?

Amber29
12-25-2020, 02:47 PM
What company uses the notation K1a12a1/a? Is that the same thing as K1a12a1a?

Only reason why i used the '/' its because on 23andme and then that website mtdna tool, it gave as an extra and i havent tested in deep testing for my bro in law... SO trying to keep the answers as open as possible.

but to answer your question yes.

J1 DYS388=13
12-25-2020, 03:23 PM
If this site is working correctly, you can see that the oldest known case of K1a12a1a is from 7,000 years ago in what is now Azerbaijan.
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_dna/index.php?searchcolumn=mtDNA_haplogroup&searchfor=K1a12a1a&ybp=500000,0

You can search for cases in the mother branches of K1a12a1 and K1a12a. I'm not sure what to conclude from that.

Amber29
12-25-2020, 04:00 PM
If this site is working correctly, you can see that the oldest known case of K1a12a1a is from 7,000 years ago in what is now Azerbaijan.
https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_dna/index.php?searchcolumn=mtDNA_haplogroup&searchfor=K1a12a1a&ybp=500000,0

You can search for cases in the mother branches of K1a12a1 and K1a12a. I'm not sure what to conclude from that.

Interesting thank you for this..that would make a lot more sense because it seems well for now seems rare in south asia

The Saite
12-26-2020, 10:11 AM
Hi all,

Just curious about this haplogroup found in South Asia and its origins. Would be nice to know peoples input....i have looked into autosomal, DNA matches and all see some sort of pattern as this is relevant to family member...

Thanks!

A Late Xiongnu individual NAI001 from Jeong2020 is found carrying K1a12a1a as well.


RUS_Late_Xiongnu_Sarmatian:NAI001,0.08992,-0.007109,-0.000754,0.034238,-0.036314,0.013108,0.009635,-0.003923,-0.029656,-0.028429,-0.004709,0.001798,-0.004162,-0.028763,0.012079,0.020021,0.004172,-0.008488,-0.003897,-0.00025,-0.002496,-0.007666,0.005793,0.001566,0.005748

Maybe you can further conclude something from his Autosomal profile, My guess would be BMAC related?

Amber29
12-26-2020, 10:51 AM
A Late Xiongnu individual NAI001 from Jeong2020 is found carrying K1a12a1a as well.


RUS_Late_Xiongnu_Sarmatian:NAI001,0.08992,-0.007109,-0.000754,0.034238,-0.036314,0.013108,0.009635,-0.003923,-0.029656,-0.028429,-0.004709,0.001798,-0.004162,-0.028763,0.012079,0.020021,0.004172,-0.008488,-0.003897,-0.00025,-0.002496,-0.007666,0.005793,0.001566,0.005748

Maybe you can further conclude something from his Autosomal profile, My guess would be BMAC related?

I do have his g25 if you wish to see? i was thinking of BMAC also this is what he got given

Target: Shan_scaled
Distance: 2.4995% / 0.02499463
67.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
14.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
9.6 TJK_Sarazm_En
5.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
1.8 Han
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.6 KAZ_Botai
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

so its a possibility - if i see alot more south asians carry this then I will be able to say that its common haplo -but havent seen anyone else carry..

The Saite
12-26-2020, 12:27 PM
I do have his g25 if you wish to see? i was thinking of BMAC also this is what he got given

Target: Shan_scaled
Distance: 2.4995% / 0.02499463
67.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
14.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
9.6 TJK_Sarazm_En
5.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
1.8 Han
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.6 KAZ_Botai
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

so its a possibility - if i see alot more south asians carry this then I will be able to say that its common haplo -but havent seen anyone else carry..

Looks like you already checked all the tricks :). At this point don't think I know something further. Do you have some eventual possibility in Mind?

Amber29
12-26-2020, 12:55 PM
Looks like you already check all the tricks :). At this point don't think I know something further. Do you have some eventual possibility in Mind ?

Well i also had look at some of the nearest haplo regional sense, but it shows as levant - but again I am not so sure he did score some here and there but ofcourse the ancients would go back to BMAC -guess I will have to wait more to make sense of it :'( lol - I also need to see which community/social class it belongs to aswell could give me a proper insight .... but for now....the time game is on lol

subzero85
12-26-2020, 04:29 PM
Maybe not the exact mtDNA haplogroup as your relatives, but my mom has a distant 23andMe match with a K mtDNA (K1a11), with an autosomal that is mostly South Asian. It's certainly been present for 10 gens+ and may have migrated in trace amounts.


99.4% South Asian
0.6% is WANA (0.5% Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian + 0.1% Broadly)

42065

Amber29
12-26-2020, 05:56 PM
Maybe not the exact mtDNA haplogroup as your relatives, but my mom has a distant 23andMe match with a K mtDNA (K1a11), with an autosomal that is mostly South Asian. It's certainly been present for 10 gens+ and may have migrated in trace amounts.


99.4% South Asian
0.6% is WANA (0.5% Iranian/Caucasian/Mesopotamian + 0.1% Broadly)

42065

Nice what is their family background? - my brother in law gets 0.2 pensinsular arab also it went from 0.7 to 0.2 with update... not sure i this is relevant because it could be any pickup again then what the others said also shows back in the ancient samples also.... hmmmm

subzero85
12-27-2020, 05:54 PM
Nice what is their family background? - my brother in law gets 0.2 pensinsular arab also it went from 0.7 to 0.2 with update... not sure i this is relevant because it could be any pickup again then what the others said also shows back in the ancient samples also.... hmmmm

They provided paternal grandfather's origin info as Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, India.

The 0.1% in the WANA section actually isn't Broadly but Peninsular Arab. My bad

Amber29
12-27-2020, 08:03 PM
They provided paternal grandfather's origin info as Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, India.

The 0.1% in the WANA section actually isn't Broadly but Peninsular Arab. My bad

Hmmmm my brother in law is a munshi but he has 40% SI i did post his results on South asian and g25 wonder if there a common theme? I could be wrong but i like to connect the dots �� lol

parasar
12-28-2020, 04:18 AM
Ran my niece (23andme mtdna data) on the James Lick utility and got this:

Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

HVR2: 73G 248G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 7028T 8277D 8860G 9055A 9698C 10084C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12681C 14167T 14766T 14798C
HVR1: 16224C 16311C (16519C)

IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.

23andme reports as K1a, but James Lick: "Every subgroup has an imperfect match - Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup"
Any ideas?

J1 DYS388=13
12-28-2020, 11:09 AM
Ran my niece (23andme mtdna data) on the James Lick utility and got this:

Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

HVR2: 73G 248G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 7028T 8277D 8860G 9055A 9698C 10084C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12681C 14167T 14766T 14798C
HVR1: 16224C 16311C (16519C)

IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.

23andme reports as K1a, but James Lick: "Every subgroup has an imperfect match - Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup"
Any ideas?

How does this relate to this thread?

Amber29
12-28-2020, 12:26 PM
Ran my niece (23andme mtdna data) on the James Lick utility and got this:

Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

HVR2: 73G 248G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 7028T 8277D 8860G 9055A 9698C 10084C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12681C 14167T 14766T 14798C
HVR1: 16224C 16311C (16519C)

IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.

23andme reports as K1a, but James Lick: "Every subgroup has an imperfect match - Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup"
Any ideas?

What v did she get tested on?

parasar
12-28-2020, 04:47 PM
How does this relate to this thread?

Was wondering about which K1a line this set of markers belongs to - and if it is potentially K1a12. The best fit seems to be K1a11 but it is different at many markers.
It is possible it that this is some parallel K1a line to K1a12, or even a parallel line to K1a itself.

Ebizur
12-29-2020, 02:37 AM
This is tangential to the current discussion, but I have noted that a branch of K1a12a marked by a C15391G mutation (K1a12a6 on the current version of the YFull MTree) is quite common among present-day populations of Taxkorgan and its vicinity:

3/66 = 4.5% Wakhi from Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County, Kashgar Prefecture, Xinjiang, China
3/86 = 3.5% Sarikoli from Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County, Kashgar Prefecture, Xinjiang, China
2/68 = 2.9% Kyrgyz from Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County, Kashgar Prefecture, Xinjiang, China
1/50 = 2.0% Pamiri from Gorno-Badakhshan Autonomous Region, Tajikistan

(Data from Min-Sheng Peng, Weifang Xu, Jiao-Jiao Song, et al., "Mitochondrial genomes uncover the maternal history of the Pamir populations.")

I suppose women belonging to haplogroup K1a12a probably have spread as far east as the Pamir Mountains by the Bronze Age.

Amber29
12-29-2020, 12:28 PM
Just so people are aware that i am not making things up xD here are the results i got so people can actually look on to this thread here..

using the james lick tool......

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) K1a12a1a

Defining Markers for haplogroup K1a12a1a:
HVR2: 73G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 5460A 6284G 7028T 8860G 9055A 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11497T 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T 14766T 14798C 15326G
HVR1: (16093C) 16224C 16311C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup K1a12a1a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 1811G ⇨ U2'3'4'7'8'9 ⇨ 9698C ⇨ U8 ⇨ 3480G ⇨ U8b'c ⇨ 9055A 14167T ⇨ U8b ⇨ 10550G 11299C 14798C 16224C 16311C ⇨ K ⇨ 1189C 10398G ⇨ K1 ⇨ 497T (16093C) ⇨ K1a ⇨ 5460A ⇨ K1a12 ⇨ 11923G ⇨ K1a12a ⇨ 6284G ⇨ K1a12a1 ⇨ 11497T ⇨ K1a12a1a ⇨ 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(22): 73G 263G 497T 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 5460A 7028T 8860G 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11497T 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T
Extras(18): 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T
No-Calls(1): 6284G
Untested(8): 750 4769 9055 14766 14798 15326 16093 16224 16311


2) K1a12a

Defining Markers for haplogroup K1a12a:
HVR2: 73G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 5460A 7028T 8860G 9055A 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T 14766T 14798C 15326G
HVR1: (16093C) 16224C 16311C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup K1a12a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 1811G ⇨ U2'3'4'7'8'9 ⇨ 9698C ⇨ U8 ⇨ 3480G ⇨ U8b'c ⇨ 9055A 14167T ⇨ U8b ⇨ 10550G 11299C 14798C 16224C 16311C ⇨ K ⇨ 1189C 10398G ⇨ K1 ⇨ 497T (16093C) ⇨ K1a ⇨ 5460A ⇨ K1a12 ⇨ 11923G ⇨ K1a12a ⇨ 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 11497T 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(21): 73G 263G 497T 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 5460A 7028T 8860G 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T
Extras(19): 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 11497T 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T
Untested(8): 750 4769 9055 14766 14798 15326 16093 16224 16311


3) K1a12a1

Defining Markers for haplogroup K1a12a1:
HVR2: 73G 263G 497T
CR: 750G 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 4769G 5460A 6284G 7028T 8860G 9055A 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T 14766T 14798C 15326G
HVR1: (16093C) 16224C 16311C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup K1a12a1 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 1811G ⇨ U2'3'4'7'8'9 ⇨ 9698C ⇨ U8 ⇨ 3480G ⇨ U8b'c ⇨ 9055A 14167T ⇨ U8b ⇨ 10550G 11299C 14798C 16224C 16311C ⇨ K ⇨ 1189C 10398G ⇨ K1 ⇨ 497T (16093C) ⇨ K1a ⇨ 5460A ⇨ K1a12 ⇨ 11923G ⇨ K1a12a ⇨ 6284G ⇨ K1a12a1 ⇨ 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 11497T 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(21): 73G 263G 497T 1189C 1438G 1811G 2706G 3480G 5460A 7028T 8860G 9698C 10398G 10550G 11299C 11467G 11719A 11923G 12308G 12372A 14167T
Extras(19): 65D 191D 299I 459D 2074I 2156D 2405D 3307D 4317I 5537D 5752D 7471D 8281D 8286D 11497T 12007A 13984T 14470C 14482T
No-Calls(1): 6284G
Untested(8): 750 4769 9055 14766 14798 15326 16093 16224 16311

Amber29
12-29-2020, 12:49 PM
also found this:

http://http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/k1a12_genbank_sequences.htm

Deftextra
12-29-2020, 03:09 PM
k1a12a is one of the more common MT lineages among my closely related cousins. It can be found throughout the horn of Africa, but is fairly rare from what I can make out. But since we are a population of mixed decent, from our autosomal results, there is a possibility it could be of middle-eastern, south/west Asian origin. Some of us are autosomal almost 1/4 south-Asian, so I would not be surprised if some MT lineages among us are of south-Asian origin.

Amber29
12-29-2020, 05:28 PM
So i had someone look into it - and there was 3 mutations that isnt matching the ones on the websites - might consider doing some deep testinggg - which means more lol

ive been added to ian logans list as lilmizz (sorry for the name) LOL even though it belongs to my bro in law.

it comes under:

.. 23andMe('lilmizz'-8275) K1a12a1a

parasar
12-29-2020, 06:20 PM
What v did she get tested on?

version 4

Amber29
12-29-2020, 06:27 PM
version 4

looking at some of the mutations there is some differences - so i am going to assume there alot of different K1a settlements around in South Asia lol