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lana6765
12-30-2020, 10:53 AM
This thread is for British and Irish people who have continental European matches and also for non Brits who have European ancestry which is all British and Irish to their knowledge.

But I am also interested in general users who have unexpected matches.

Disclaimer: I have no traceable continental European ancestry. However, some of my family lived in Gibraltar for at least 6 years. European connections either way are possible but unknown.

Note: This has nothing to do with Brexit and my motivations are solely to investigate my personal ancestry and compare notes with others. Please don't discuss Brexit here.

Person 1 - Norway

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.9% (62.6‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 36.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 63.0%, Finnish 25.6%, Baltic 7.3%, Inuit 3.3%, Japanese and Korean 0.8%
Ancestral surnames: Norway, Finland, Sweden, Estonia

Person 2 - Finland

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (50.8‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 36.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 3.6%, Finnish 90.8%, East European 5.6%
Ancestral surnames: All Finland

Person 3 - France

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.6% (42.7‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 36.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 7.9%, North and West European 26.8%, Iberian 46.5%, Italian 15.1%, East European 3.7%
Ancestral surnames: All France
Note: French people can score Irish, Scottish, and Welsh. This person's tree looks to be all French, however.

Stephen1986
12-30-2020, 01:45 PM
For myself -

Person 1 - Netherlands

Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (32.6‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 7.2‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 56.8%, English 29.6%, Finnish 4.3%
Ancestral surnames: Unable to see most, but what I can see seem to be Dutch names


Person 2 - Iceland

Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (28.1 cM), 4 shared segments, 9.4 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 99.1%, Irish, Scottish and Welsh 0.9%
Ancestral surnames: Icelandic


Person 3 - Sweden

Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (24.9cM), 4 shared segments, 6.4 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 74%, Finnish 26%
Ancestral surnames: Swedish



For my brother -

Person 1 - Sweden (unrelated to my Swedish match)

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (34.8‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 8.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 45.0%, North and West European 42.1%, Finnish 12.9%
Ancestral surnames: Swedish


Person 2 - Netherlands (unrelated to my Dutch match)

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.2‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 8.3 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 38.3%, Scandinavian 32.1%, English 15.1%
Ancestral surnames: Dutch


Person 3 - Norway

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (28.7‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 22.4 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 70.4%, English 29.6%
Ancestral surnames: Norwegian

Marmaduke
12-30-2020, 02:29 PM
I have zero ancestry from Ireland. My ancestry is mostly English, with bits of Scottish and Welsh, and some ancestry from 'Northwestern Europe.' I have a bit of Dutch, one Norwegian, one German ancestor. But on FamilyTreeDNA, all my Y-line matches are in the British Isles. On my Y-line I have only one match outside the British Isles and that individual is Norwegian.

FionnSneachta
12-30-2020, 08:13 PM
Me
Person 1 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (55.7‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 41.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 77.6%, Finnish 14%, Baltic 6.9%, Inuit 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (54.7‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 35.2‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 72.7%, Balkan 14.9%, Greek and South Italian 12.4%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (33.5‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 19.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: 43.3% Irish, Scottish and Welsh, 22.9% North and West European, 28.2% Italian, 2.8% Iberian, 2.8% East European
Ancestral surnames: France

Dad
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.5 cM), 4 shared segments, 8.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 11.6%, Finnish 82.8%, Baltic 0.9%, Central Asian 3%, Mesoamerican and Andean 1.7%
Ancestral surnames: Finland

Person 2 - Switzerland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.3‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 9.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: English 43.4%, Scandinavian 18.8%, Greek and South Italian 33.2%, Iberian 4.6%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (28.2 cM), 4 shared segments, 7.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 54.4%, Scandinavian 34.5%, Finnish 3.4%, East European 3%, Balkan 1.5%, South Asian 3.2%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Mum
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (52.9‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 46.3 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Finnish 96.1%, 0.9% Iberian, Inuit 1.8%, Indigenous Amazonian 1.2%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 2 - Brazil
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.6% (42.5 cM), 1 shared segments, 42.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 10.5%, Iberian 71.1%, Balkan 14.4%, Askenazi Jewish 4%
Ancestral surnames: Extensive family tree all going back to Portugal and Spain

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (26.1‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 7.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 52.3%, Iberian 44.4%, Greek and South Italian 1.8%, Ashkenazi Jewish 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Paternal Great Aunt
Person 1 - Denmark
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (47‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 40.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 1.7%, Scandinavian 91.1%, Finnish 1.9%, Greek and South Italian 5.3%
Ancestral surnames: Denmark

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (34.4‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 8.9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 6.9%, North and West European 93.1%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (30.8 cM), 4 shared segments, 9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 100%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

lana6765
12-30-2020, 09:50 PM
Me
Person 1 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (55.7‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 41.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 77.6%, Finnish 14%, Baltic 6.9%, Inuit 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (54.7‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 35.2‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 72.7%, Balkan 14.9%, Greek and South Italian 12.4%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (33.5‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 19.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: 43.3% Irish, Scottish and Welsh, 22.9% North and West European, 28.2% Italian, 2.8% Iberian, 2.8% East European
Ancestral surnames: France

Dad
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.5 cM), 4 shared segments, 8.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 11.6%, Finnish 82.8%, Baltic 0.9%, Central Asian 3%, Mesoamerican and Andean 1.7%
Ancestral surnames: Finland

Person 2 - Switzerland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.3‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 9.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: English 43.4%, Scandinavian 18.8%, Greek and South Italian 33.2%, Iberian 4.6%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (28.2 cM), 4 shared segments, 7.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 54.4%, Scandinavian 34.5%, Finnish 3.4%, East European 3%, Balkan 1.5%, South Asian 3.2%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Mum
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (52.9‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 46.3 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Finnish 96.1%, 0.9% Iberian, Inuit 1.8%, Indigenous Amazonian 1.2%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 2 - Brazil
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.6% (42.5 cM), 1 shared segments, 42.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 10.5%, Iberian 71.1%, Balkan 14.4%, Askenazi Jewish 4%
Ancestral surnames: Extensive family tree all going back to Portugal and Spain

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (26.1‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 7.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 52.3%, Iberian 44.4%, Greek and South Italian 1.8%, Ashkenazi Jewish 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Paternal Great Aunt
Person 1 - Denmark
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (47‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 40.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 1.7%, Scandinavian 91.1%, Finnish 1.9%, Greek and South Italian 5.3%
Ancestral surnames: Denmark

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (34.4‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 8.9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 6.9%, North and West European 93.1%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (30.8 cM), 4 shared segments, 9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 100%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Interesting that the ones with the largest segments are from Scandinavia.

I get the same. The largest single segment is someone from Norway:

Person 4 - Norway

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (49.0‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 41.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 100%
Ancestral surnames: All Norway

Are they part British/Irish or am I part Norwegian? How are we related? I have so many questions :D

firemonkey
12-30-2020, 11:34 PM
#1 Sweden

Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (36.1‎ cM)Shared DNA
4Shared segments
16.7‎ cMLargest segment

English

31.2%

Scandinavian

52.6%

North and West European

16.2%

#2 France

Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (34.1‎ cM)Shared DNA
4Shared segments
12.9‎ cMLargest segment



English
46.3%

South Europe
Iberian
37.4%

East Europe
16.3%
Balkan
10.7%
East European
5.6%


#3 Austria

Estimated relationships
3rd cousin - distant cousin?
Medium confidence
DNA Match quality?
0.4% (31.2‎ cM)Shared DNA
4Shared segments
9‎ cMLargest segment


North and West European
84.4%
East Europe
6.4%
West Asian
9.2%

Helves
12-30-2020, 11:52 PM
This is remarkable. Some of you here share over 50 cM with Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch and Frenchmen despite no known ancestry outside of Britain/Ireland. There are people from the small town my parents are from that I share less than 50 cM with.

jadegreg
12-31-2020, 02:08 AM
Interesting that the ones with the largest segments are from Scandinavia.

I get the same. The largest single segment is someone from Norway:

Person 4 - Norway

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (49.0‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 41.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 100%
Ancestral surnames: All Norway

Are they part British/Irish or am I part Norwegian? How are we related? I have so many questions :D

That's the million dollar question? In your case, with the long ancestral history of fishing, I suspect it could be either or ! Your Norwegian and Finnish matches are not inconsiderable, especially when considering segment lengths. Do any of the Norwegian or Finns overlap in your matches? Indeed, do any of these matches overlap with individuals you have known ancestry with?

jadegreg
12-31-2020, 02:18 AM
Me
Person 1 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (55.7‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 41.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 77.6%, Finnish 14%, Baltic 6.9%, Inuit 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (54.7‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 35.2‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 72.7%, Balkan 14.9%, Greek and South Italian 12.4%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (33.5‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 19.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: 43.3% Irish, Scottish and Welsh, 22.9% North and West European, 28.2% Italian, 2.8% Iberian, 2.8% East European
Ancestral surnames: France

Dad
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.5 cM), 4 shared segments, 8.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 11.6%, Finnish 82.8%, Baltic 0.9%, Central Asian 3%, Mesoamerican and Andean 1.7%
Ancestral surnames: Finland

Person 2 - Switzerland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (29.3‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 9.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: English 43.4%, Scandinavian 18.8%, Greek and South Italian 33.2%, Iberian 4.6%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (28.2 cM), 4 shared segments, 7.8‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 54.4%, Scandinavian 34.5%, Finnish 3.4%, East European 3%, Balkan 1.5%, South Asian 3.2%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

Mum
Person 1 - Finland
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.8% (52.9‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 46.3 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Finnish 96.1%, 0.9% Iberian, Inuit 1.8%, Indigenous Amazonian 1.2%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 2 - Brazil
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.6% (42.5 cM), 1 shared segments, 42.5‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 10.5%, Iberian 71.1%, Balkan 14.4%, Askenazi Jewish 4%
Ancestral surnames: Extensive family tree all going back to Portugal and Spain

Person 3 - France
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (26.1‎ cM), 4 shared segments, 7.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: North and West European 52.3%, Iberian 44.4%, Greek and South Italian 1.8%, Ashkenazi Jewish 1.5%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Paternal Great Aunt
Person 1 - Denmark
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (47‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 40.7 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 1.7%, Scandinavian 91.1%, Finnish 1.9%, Greek and South Italian 5.3%
Ancestral surnames: Denmark

Person 2 - Germany
Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.5% (34.4‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 8.9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish and Welsh 6.9%, North and West European 93.1%
Ancestral surnames: Unknown

Person 3 - Sweden
Estimated relationship: 3rd - distant
DNA Match quality: 0.4% (30.8 cM), 4 shared segments, 9 cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 100%
Ancestral surnames: Sweden

It's quite interesting that you're largest matches don't align with your parents, or Great Aunt. Are you all tested on different kits?

FionnSneachta
12-31-2020, 11:07 AM
Are they part British/Irish or am I part Norwegian? How are we related? I have so many questions :D
I don't know how genuine these matches are since my parents don't match any of my top three matches except one. My mum matches the third highest French match, but for my mum, the match is a 3rd - distant cousin sharing 21.4 cM across 2 segments with the largest being 15.1 cM. The only triangulated segment is on chromosome 16 with it being a larger size for me.


It's quite interesting that you're largest matches don't align with your parents, or Great Aunt. Are you all tested on different kits?
The kits are all uploads to MyHeritage. We all tested with AncestryDNA except for my dad who tested with FTDNA.

firemonkey
12-31-2020, 12:09 PM
I share a small triangulated segment on chr7 (9.3 cMs) with 6 matches listed as 100% Scandinavian


My highest single segment matches that aren't pileups.

Norway 22.3
Sweden 19.0
Norway 17.7

All 100% Scandinavian.

jadegreg
12-31-2020, 12:40 PM
I share a small triangulated segment on chr7 (9.3 cMs) with 6 matches listed as 100% Scandinavian


My highest single segment matches that aren't pileups.

Norway 22.3
Sweden 19.0
Norway 17.7

All 100% Scandinavian.

It's probably been covered elsewhere, but is there any concrete method for establishing whether segment matches are due to pile-up?

JFWinstone
12-31-2020, 08:33 PM
My closest non-British and Irish European matches the closest being obviously Dutch as I'm 1/16 Dutch, beyond that there are a bunch of German, French, Norwegians and Swedes.

Netherlands

3rd-5th Cousin
Europe - 100%
English - 6.1%
Scandinavian - 52.3%
North and West European - 39.3%
East European - 2.3%

3rd-Distant Cousin
Europe - 100%
Scandinavian - 4.2%
North and West European - 94.3%
Finnish - 1.5%

3rd-Distant Cousin
Europe - 100%
English - 39.9%
Scandinavian - 54.4%
East European - 5.7%

3rd-Distant Cousin
Europe - 100%
Scandinavian - 18.2%
North and West European - 76.7%
Finnish - 0.9%
East European - 4.2%

Germany

3rd-Distant Cousin
Europe - 100%
English - 3.2%
Scandinavian - 6.5%
North and West European - 66.1%
Balkan - 17.1%
Greek and South Italian - 3.8%
Ashkenazi Jewish - 3.3%

3rd-Distant Cousin
European - 92.4%
English - 5.6%
North and West European - 44.5%
Balkan - 17.4%
East European - 13.7%
Iberian - 11.2%
Central Asia - 5.1%
Middle Eastern - 2.5%

France

3rd-Distant Cousin
Europe - 100%
North and West European - 21.9%
Irish, Scottish and Welsh - 16.7%
Iberian - 48%
Italian - 13.4%

Sweden

3rd-Distant Cousin
European - 97.5%
Scandinavian - 84.5%
Finnish - 13%
South Asian - 2.5%

Norway

3rd-distant cousin
Europe - 100%
Scandinavian - 92.1%
North and West European - 7.9%

deadly77
01-02-2021, 10:31 AM
No known continental European ancestry that I'm aware of - all England, Scotland and Ireland so far. Potentially one 6th great grandfather from Guernsey. Top three that are continental Europe in my DNA matches:

Person 1 - France
Estimated relationships 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA match quality: 0.5% (37.2cM) shared DNA, 5 shared segments, largest segment 11.7cM
No ethnicity estimate displayed - perhaps hidden by kit owner. Tree managed by another and is private.

Person 2 - France
Estimated relationships 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA match quality: 0.5% (36.5cM) shared DNA, 3 shared segments, largest segment 23.3cM
Ethnicity estimate: 68.1% North and West Europe (54.3% North and West European, 13.8% Irish, Scottish and Welsh), 31.9% South Europe (25.7% Italian, 6.2% Iberian).
Surnames: 2 listed both French (tree of seven people).

Person 3 - Germany
Estimated relationships 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA match quality: 0.5% (34.8cM) shared DNA, 2 shared segments, largest segment 28.8cM
Ethnicity estimate: 60.8% North and West Europe (22.3% English, 5.3% North and West European, 33.2% Irish, Scandinavian), 21.3% East Europe (21.3% Baltic), 17.9% South Europe (16.9% Italian, 2.0% Iberian).
Surnames: 12 listed, all look German (tree of 113 people).

Molfish
01-24-2021, 06:34 PM
Me

1. Driessen
From: Netherlands
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.6% (40.1‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
26.1‎ cM

2. Vik
From: Norway
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (34.9‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
21.2‎ cM

3. LŲvstrand
From: Sweden
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.4% (30.1‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
16.2‎ cM

Mother

1. Halvorsen
From: Norway
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.7% (47.1‎ cM)
Shared DNA
4
Shared segments
23.7‎ cM

2. Sundin
From: Sweden
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (36.0‎ cM)
Shared DNA
1
Shared segments
36‎ cM

3. Bos
From: Netherlands
Estimated relationships
3rd cousin - distant cousin?
Medium confidence
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (34.0‎ cM)
Shared DNA
4
Shared segments
10.2‎ cM
Largest segment

Father

1. doussoux
From: France
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.8% (53.0‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
36.3‎ cM

2. morat
From: France
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.7% (46.0‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
31.4‎ cM

3. Burmester
From: Germany
Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin?
DNA Match quality?
0.6% (44.0‎ cM)
Shared DNA
2
Shared segments
37.6‎ cM

Graham
01-27-2021, 04:30 PM
All born in Norway. They have family trees connected and the top two have Scottish surnames in them that I also have(Fraser & Slater). So most likely Norway has been getting a few Scots immigrants rather than Norwegians moving West.

In myheritage I have more Norwegian than Irish matches.



Person 1 -- Norwegian
3rd - 5th cousin?
1.0% (71.8‎ cM)

Person 2 -- Norwegian
3rd - 5th cousin?
0.5% (34.5‎ cM)

Person 3 -- Norwegian
3rd cousin - distant cousin?
0.5% (33.8‎ cM)

lana6765
02-05-2021, 05:53 PM
I think some of the less close Scandinavian and Finnish matches could be real as they pop up with both kits. I had 2 Finnish matches on the 23andme site also.

But I think some of the matches could have been somehow elevated or bumped up by imputation maybe?? IDK

Also some of the closest ones match on Chromosome 15. The segments are longer than the pile up zones. But the pile up zones are included in the segment lengths... if that makes sense.

lana6765
02-18-2021, 05:39 PM
Here are some matches that match both kits, with segments over 10 cM:

From: Poland
Largest segment: 11.1 cM
Total: 30.3 cM
Ethnicity: 100% Eastern European
Ancestral Surnames: All Polish

From: Norway
Largest Segment: 16 cM
Total: 16 cM
Ethnicity: 100% Scandinavian
Ancestry surnames: All Norwegian

These aren’t on chromosome 15. :)

JFWinstone
02-18-2021, 07:28 PM
My dad is primarily British with 1/8 Dutch ancestry and some distant Irish and possible French Huguenot. His closest non-British with over 10 matches are Dutch, German, French, Danish, Swedish, Norwegians, Finns, Swiss and Austrian.

Judith
02-20-2021, 11:05 AM
My ethnicity in myheritage shows high Scandinavian (30%) mostly Sweden and Finland but I put my 20 closest matches (none below 20cM) presently living there (no mixed heritage from USA allowed) into DNApainter and it showed the common DNA match was in a uncertain zone. MyHeritage called the matches low confidence and that stacked up too.

Cheshire has a documented Viking settlement in the early Middle Ages

lana6765
02-20-2021, 12:08 PM
My ethnicity in myheritage shows high Scandinavian (30%) mostly Sweden and Finland but I put my 20 closest matches (none below 20cM) presently living there (no mixed heritage from USA allowed) into DNApainter and it showed the common DNA match was in a uncertain zone. MyHeritage called the matches low confidence and that stacked up too.

Cheshire has a documented Viking settlement in the early Middle Ages

I have considered the Viking angle, but I am unsure if it would produce matches greater than what unrelated people from the same ethnic group share. Could a 16 cM segment have been passed down from 1000 years ago?

Another explanation could be from continental European migration to cities like Liverpool and London that happened outside of my genealogical timeline, but after the Vikings. Some small shred of DNA that’s been in Britain for 200-500 years might not be identified as Scandinavian on AncestryDNA or 23andme.

200 years ago I had around 64 ancestors who were spread around different part of the England and Ireland, including cities, ports and more isolated areas. 500 years ago this becomes more like 10s of thousands. What if one of them wasn’t from England or Ireland?

lana6765
03-21-2021, 09:39 AM
It looks like they’ve had an update to their matching service.

I no longer match Norwegians and Finns in the pile-up zone on Chromosome 15.

However, I still match a lot of people from those countries. I’ve noticed a new Finnish match:

Estimated relationships
3rd - 5th cousin

DNA Match quality
0.4% (31.4‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
17.5‎ cM
Largest segment

Ancestral Surnames
All Finland

Ethnicity
98.2% Finnish
1.0% Inuit
0.8% Central Asian

The match triangulates with 1 other Finnish person.

Super exciting! This now reflects what I’m seeing on 23andme with similar segment lengths shared with people of the same ethnic background.

We share 0 ethnicities. Here is my ethnicity estimate:
65.7% Irish, Scottish and Welsh
23.3% Scandinavian
11.0% Greek and South Italian

:confused:

It’s not super accurate for me.

Are we distant cousins somewhere way back maybe? :unsure: Did some of my seafaring ancestors make it all the way to Finland? Or did one of them come from Finland?

Edit: Going back to my history books, Finland was at one point part of Russia. Russia has some relevance to British history, so maybe this is related to the Russian Empire in some way??

V-X
04-03-2021, 09:32 PM
44135
Blue = Anglosphere
Green = Europe

The matches number is not a raw figure, it's the total number of matches minus the number of matches from that country with UK in their tree.
Seems like I have strong viking influence, which is not surprising since the majority of my ancestry is from Yorkshire and nearby.

V-X
04-03-2021, 09:39 PM
Could a 16 cM segment have been passed down from 1000 years ago?
I believe so because it's possible to get ~5cM matches on the gedmatch archaic feature from several thousand years ago.

One thing I wonder about in general is just how far back the oldest matches are. I have confirmed a DNA match on paper with someone where our shared ancestor was born in 1733, so I am sure there are matches that go back to the 16th and 17th century, but I wouldn't be all that shocked if you could have matches that were significantly further back.

lana6765
04-03-2021, 11:39 PM
I believe so because it's possible to get ~5cM matches on the gedmatch archaic feature from several thousand years ago.

One thing I wonder about in general is just how far back the oldest matches are. I have confirmed a DNA match on paper with someone where our shared ancestor was born in 1733, so I am sure there are matches that go back to the 16th and 17th century, but I wouldn't be all that shocked if you could have matches that were significantly further back.

Maybe it's possible to get 5 cM segments from Vikings, but these are usually classified as short segments. Anything over 10 cM is usually classified as a long segment.

So that match from Finland is very likely a real distant cousin. I share 31.4‎ cM, with the largest segment being 17.5‎ cM in length.

I've been reading about segment lengths here:

https://isogg.org/wiki/Identical_by_descent

"In a study of a European subset of the Population Reference Sample (POPRES) dataset it was estimated that for the most part IBD blocks longer than 4 cM come from 500 to 1,500 years ago, and blocks longer than 10 cM are within the last 500 years."

So if I'm understanding correctly, this Finnish person and I most likely share an ancestor who lived over the last 500 years. There could be several explanations as to how we are related (I might never find out how, but it's interesting to me nonetheless).

Edit: As a side note, Finns weren't usually Vikings, although some were. But I think Finland was most influenced by Swedish Vikings, whereas England was invaded mainly by Danish Vikings. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

V-X
04-04-2021, 06:08 PM
for the most part IBD blocks longer than 4 cM come from 500 to 1,500 years ago, and blocks longer than 10 cM are within the last 500 years.

Interesting! "For the most part" does imply that there will be a small fraction of larger blocks from further in the past. Given that we are getting thousands of matches on myheritage, if even 1% are much older links then that's still dozens of them.

I agree that your Finnish match is probably a more recent link though given you have 3 shared segments.

Rufus191
04-05-2021, 06:05 PM
This is remarkable. Some of you here share over 50 cM with Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch and Frenchmen despite no known ancestry outside of Britain/Ireland. There are people from the small town my parents are from that I share less than 50 cM with.
People have noticed this before a lot with MyHeritage, they are likely to be inaccurately shown to be closer matches than they really are, probably pile up regions or IBS/IBD that get ignored by Ancestry or 23andme

https://isogg.org/wiki/Identical_by_descent#Excess_IBD_sharing

Rufus191
04-05-2021, 07:05 PM
That's the million dollar question? In your case, with the long ancestral history of fishing, I suspect it could be either or ! Your Norwegian and Finnish matches are not inconsiderable, especially when considering segment lengths. Do any of the Norwegian or Finns overlap in your matches? Indeed, do any of these matches overlap with individuals you have known ancestry with?
There could be something else going on here possibly, basically communities in Britain and/or in Scandinavia that have been very static and are pretty inbred. That could be a group of village communities in a heavily Viking settled areas of the British Isles i.e. the Orkneys at the strongest, and then coastal areas of Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, other areas of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, and similarly in Scandinavia some communities that maybe have commonality with those communities or have high female Irish ancestral lines if commonality is found with Irish descended people.

lana6765
04-05-2021, 09:16 PM
There could be something else going on here possibly, basically communities in Britain and/or in Scandinavia that have been very static and are pretty inbred. That could be a group of village communities in a heavily Viking settled areas of the British Isles i.e. the Orkneys at the strongest, and then coastal areas of Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, other areas of Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, and similarly in Scandinavia some communities that maybe have commonality with those communities or have high female Irish ancestral lines if commonality is found with Irish descended people.

I don't think it's true that Britain and Ireland are that inbred or even particularly endogamous as a whole. Ireland was, until the famine, actually overcrowded. Furthermore there's no custom of marrying cousins.

In addition, a lot of my British ancestry comes from big cities, like London, Liverpool, Southampton. My ancestors actually moved around a lot over time. London was the biggest city in the world at one time so there would be a lot of choice over marriage partners (including, in my case, handsome Irish fellows, lol).

Edit: Also Norway and Shetland Islands - perhaps there could be some similarity there, some recent common descent via many Vikings. But Finland and County Mayo? Poland and County Mayo?

Rufus191
04-05-2021, 10:56 PM
I don't think it's true that Britain and Ireland are that inbred or even particularly endogamous as a whole. Ireland was, until the famine, actually overcrowded. Furthermore there's no custom of marrying cousins.

In addition, a lot of my British ancestry comes from big cities, like London, Liverpool, Southampton. My ancestors actually moved around a lot over time. London was the biggest city in the world at one time so there would be a lot of choice over marriage partners (including, in my case, handsome Irish fellows, lol).

Edit: Also Norway and Shetland Islands - perhaps there could be some similarity there, some recent common descent via many Vikings. But Finland and County Mayo? Poland and County Mayo?
Some areas are known to be pretty genetically homogenous - Orkneys for example. It could be there was a Scandinavian sailor here or there in some Brits ancestry, but I don't think it can account for the large scale unusually high Scandinavian matches for Brits/Irish descended people on MyHeritage. I think it must be pile up /excess IBD/IBS areas that other companies like Ancestry deliberately ignore.

lana6765
04-05-2021, 11:03 PM
Some areas are known to be pretty genetically homogenous - Orkneys for example. It could be there was a Scandinavian sailor here or there in some Brits ancestry, but I don't think it can account for the large scale unusually high Scandinavian matches for Brits/Irish descended people on MyHeritage. I think it must be pile up /excess IBD/IBS areas that other companies like Ancestry deliberately ignore.

I initially matched some people in a pileup zone, but the 16-17cM segments aren’t pileup zones. Also I matched a couple on Finnish people and a Ukrainian on 23andme!

lana6765
04-06-2021, 11:56 AM
I came up with a few possible explanations for the matches we’re getting, besides Vikings:

- Irish emigration to Russia (I mentioned this on another thread): https://www.historytoday.com/miscellanies/russia-ireland-love
- Nordic immigration to Britain/Nordic sailors. Apparently there are a number of Nordic churches in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_churches_in_London
- Polish immigration to Britain. Polish immigration has been happening for hundreds of years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_United_Kingdom

There are possibly other explanations, but these are what I am currently aware of.

Rufus191
04-06-2021, 12:02 PM
I came up with a few possible explanations for the matches we’re getting, besides Vikings:

- Irish emigration to Russia (I mentioned this on another thread): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Russians
- Nordic immigration to Britain/Nordic sailors. Apparently there are a number of Nordic churches in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_churches_in_London
- Polish immigration to Britain. Polish immigration has been happening for hundreds of years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_United_Kingdom

There are possibly other explanations, but these are what I am currently aware of.
Another I had was there was some French Huguenot emigration to Sweden and Denmark, those being Protestant countries and safe refuges at the time. Many Brits who have London, south and eastern ancestry, and many Irish who have northern irish or Dublin ancestry in particular will have some Huguenot ancestry.

Rufus191
04-06-2021, 12:42 PM
Another I had was there was some French Huguenot emigration to Sweden and Denmark, those being Protestant countries and safe refuges at the time. Many Brits who have London, south and eastern ancestry, and many Irish who have northern irish or Dublin ancestry in particular will have some Huguenot ancestry.
That would also include Norway, as part of the Denmark-Norway kingdom, and Finland as part of Sweden at that time.

lana6765
04-06-2021, 08:10 PM
I have a new Swedish match.

This match matches my best Finnish match!

DNA Match quality
0.5% (36.5‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
23.3‎ cM
Largest segment

Ancestral surnames
Swedish and Finnish

Ethnicity estimate
Scandinavian
81.4%
Finnish
18.6%

Genetic groups
Swedish and American (I get American too. This is likely is where great aunts and uncles migrated to).

lana6765
04-06-2021, 08:32 PM
Another I had was there was some French Huguenot emigration to Sweden and Denmark, those being Protestant countries and safe refuges at the time. Many Brits who have London, south and eastern ancestry, and many Irish who have northern irish or Dublin ancestry in particular will have some Huguenot ancestry.

I did not realise that. I don't know if I have Huguenot ancestors, but there's a couple of surnames that may have Huguenot roots.

But I think there's a chance one of my ancestors may have a more direct connection with a Nordic country. Some of my Essex ancestors apparently sailed to France, America and Australia as they were sailors themselves.

Come to think of it, my family may have shipped some Scandinavians and Finnish people to America. It's the right time period. I have an example of a couple who met on a ship. The man was a sailor and the woman was a British woman on her way to Australia.

http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/voyages.asp?articleid=28&zoneid=6

They did pass through London!

Rufus191
04-06-2021, 08:57 PM
I did not realise that. I don't know if I have Huguenot ancestors, but there's a couple of surnames that may have Huguenot roots.

But I think there's a chance one of my ancestors may have a more direct connection with a Nordic country. Some of my Essex ancestors apparently sailed to France, America and Australia as they were sailors themselves.

Come to think of it, my family may have shipped some Scandinavians and Finnish people to America. It's the right time period. I have an example of a couple who met on a ship. The man was a sailor and the woman was a British woman on her way to Australia.
Sometimes you can have huguenot ancestors but it will be completely not obvious, for instance I have an example where Le Fevre changed to Smith - direct translation. In those cases you may only get clues from wills if you are lucky to find them. I am pretty sure many of my German matches are via my huguenot ancestry as I have traced genealogically several lines there and to find Germans with French surnames is not unusual. The movement of French people at that time, in two waves around 1570s and 1680s was fairly huge, probably in the hundreds of thousands of people, and left a huge dent on the French economy as many of those who left were skilled artisans. They also went to South Africa, the Caribbean (where there were several known Huguenots involved in piracy/privateering in alliance with Brits and the Dutch) and North America.

lana6765
05-20-2021, 12:01 PM
Here are some examples of triangulation with foreign matches!

11cM
Between me and two Norwegians!
One matches me at 23.6cM

9.3cM
Between me, a Finnish person and a Swede!
Both are strong matches!

Finnish:
0.4% (31.4‎ cM)
Shared DNA
3
Shared segments
17.5‎ cM
Largest segment

Swedish:
DNA Match quality?
0.5% (36.4‎ cM)
Shared DNA
5
Shared segments
10.1‎ cM
Largest segment

Ahhh :eek:

lana6765
05-20-2021, 12:30 PM
Another explanation: Gosch (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23790-Susannah-and-Carpenter-Gosach-Cool-unusual-surname&p=771810#post771810) is really German and I have German ancestors who moved to Scandinavia.

lana6765
05-23-2021, 02:01 PM
Some areas are known to be pretty genetically homogenous - Orkneys for example. It could be there was a Scandinavian sailor here or there in some Brits ancestry, but I don't think it can account for the large scale unusually high Scandinavian matches for Brits/Irish descended people on MyHeritage. I think it must be pile up /excess IBD/IBS areas that other companies like Ancestry deliberately ignore.

Do you mean endogamous rather than homogenous? Perhaps this is true of smaller island communities, but I would imagine my ancestors weren’t particularly endogamous.

The reason is, having lived in well populated areas or cities, they would have had a lot of choice over marriage partners. I’m sure there’s an odd case of cousins marrying somewhere, but that’s true of almost everyone the world over. Recent generations, though all British or Irish, have married out of their communities.

My Irish sides lived in more rural areas, but even then they haven’t always lived in the same village. I suppose they could have been fairly homogenously Irish, but let’s not confuse that with endogamy or inbreeding.

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 10:52 AM
I spent some time going through my MyHeritage matches in detail a few months ago; I won't bore you with the full details, but:

Regarding Irish matches:
* 100% of matches with largest segment >=17.6 cM were a match to either of my parents (i.e. they were "true" matches).
* 33% of matches with largest segment <17.6 cM (I checked down to 12 cM) were not a match to either of my parents (i.e. they were "false" matches).

I have several "colonial" English/Irish matches with largest segment of 26 cM that were not a match to either of my parents.

This proposed ~26 cM largest segment cut-off point for a potential false match is interesting, as my paternal grandmother has the following matches with people without obvious Isles ancestry (either in their trees, ethnicity estimates or genetic groups):

Norway
Shared DNA 26.7‎ cM
Largest segment 26.7‎ cM

Norway
Shared DNA 31.9‎ cM
Largest segment 24.5‎ cM

Finland/Hungary
Shared DNA 28.7‎ cM
Largest segment 22.2‎ cM

Denmark
Shared DNA 30.7‎ cM
Largest segment 21.1‎ cM

France
Shared DNA 26.0‎ cM
Largest segment 19.5‎ cM

Sweden
Shared DNA 40.1‎ cM
Largest segment 18.8‎ cM


My view is that on MyHeritage, Northern Europeans can share a run of DNA that is IBS rather than IBD, up to ~26 cM.

If anyone wants to go through the same process with themselves and their parents I would be interested to see the results. :)

lana6765
05-27-2021, 11:14 AM
I spent some time going through my MyHeritage matches in detail a few months ago; I won't bore you with the full details, but:

Regarding Irish matches:
* 100% of matches with largest segment >=17.6 cM were a match to either of my parents (i.e. they were "true" matches).
* 33% of matches with largest segment <17.6 cM (I checked down to 12 cM) were not a match to either of my parents (i.e. they were "false" matches).

I have several "colonial" English/Irish matches with largest segment of 26 cM that were not a match to either of my parents.

This proposed ~26 cM largest segment cut-off point for a potential false match is interesting, as my paternal grandmother has the following matches with people without obvious Isles ancestry (either in their trees, ethnicity estimates or genetic groups):

Norway
Shared DNA 26.7‎ cM
Largest segment 26.7‎ cM

Norway
Shared DNA 31.9‎ cM
Largest segment 24.5‎ cM

Finland/Hungary
Shared DNA 28.7‎ cM
Largest segment 22.2‎ cM

Denmark
Shared DNA 30.7‎ cM
Largest segment 21.1‎ cM

France
Shared DNA 26.0‎ cM
Largest segment 19.5‎ cM

Sweden
Shared DNA 40.1‎ cM
Largest segment 18.8‎ cM


My view is that on MyHeritage, Northern Europeans can share a run of DNA that is IBS rather than IBD, up to ~26 cM.

If anyone wants to go through the same process with themselves and their parents I would be interested to see the results. :)

Interesting.

But sadly neither of my parents have a desire to test.

Anyone else have input?

Nqp15hhu
05-27-2021, 11:40 AM
Norway: 27.5cm, one segment 21.5.

Germany: 23.5, one segment 10.9.

Sweden: 21.1, one segment 8.1.

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 11:58 AM
Reading Molfish and FionnSneachta's posts earlier in this thread, I would upgrade my estimate of 26 cM to even higher for a potential false match on MyHeritage.

lana6765
05-27-2021, 12:04 PM
Reading Molfish and FionnSneachta's posts earlier in this thread, I would upgrade my estimate of 26 cM to even higher for a potential false match on MyHeritage.

Were these all uploads or through testing directly with MyHeritage?

Were the uploads from the same company?

To clarify: I uploaded two kits but did not test directly.

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 12:10 PM
Were these all uploads or through testing directly with MyHeritage?

Were the uploads from the same company?

To clarify: I uploaded two kits but did not test directly.

All of mine were LivingDNA uploads, although I also have my parents uploaded from Ancestry with similar results.

I think you mentioned imputation earlier in this thread and that is most likely the explanation for all this false matching. Alas, I doubt any of us have recent Scandi ancestry, despite my love of Borgen. :)

lana6765
05-27-2021, 12:16 PM
All of mine were LivingDNA uploads, although I also have my parents uploaded from Ancestry with similar results.

I think you mentioned imputation earlier in this thread and that is most likely the explanation for all this false matching. Alas, I doubt any of us have recent Scandi ancestry, despite my love of Borgen. :)

Yeah thatís starting to sound likely.

Would my matches have been more reliable if Iíd tested directly do you think?

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 12:21 PM
Yeah that’s starting to sound likely.

Would my matches have been more reliable if I’d tested directly do you think?

Could we say that your DNA would be more accurate (as not imputed), but how would you know if your matches were imputed, as we can't see if they are uploads or tests? Except... I think MyHeritage is more popular on the continent than here or the US, so maybe you would get "pure" matching (non-imputed) with Scandinavians.

Given how many of us have Scandi matches, I think it is unlikely any are true matches. It would be a waste of money to test again, IMO.

Nqp15hhu
05-27-2021, 12:25 PM
It's not a false match if its shared with parents.

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 12:28 PM
It's not a false match if its shared with parents.

So you have Scandinavian matches >20 cM that you share with a parent?

Capitalis
05-27-2021, 12:35 PM
It's not a false match if its shared with parents.

Can you confirm that when MyHeritage (or any company) impute, it is impossible for you and a parent to have had the same imputation result (for a run of say 30 cM), that was then matched with a tested/imputed Scandinavian, thus giving a false match?

Nqp15hhu
05-27-2021, 01:20 PM
So you have Scandinavian matches >20 cM that you share with a parent?

Yes with my dad and with Germany too.

Nqp15hhu
05-27-2021, 02:13 PM
Can you confirm that when MyHeritage (or any company) impute, it is impossible for you and a parent to have had the same imputation result (for a run of say 30 cM), that was then matched with a tested/imputed Scandinavian, thus giving a false match?

What do you mean?

Norway: 27.5cm me, mum 27.6cm
Sweden: 21.1cm me, dad 8.9cm

Bollox79
05-27-2021, 06:38 PM
This thread is for British and Irish people who have continental European matches and also for non Brits who have European ancestry which is all British and Irish to their knowledge.

But I am also interested in general users who have unexpected matches.

Disclaimer: I have no traceable continental European ancestry. However, some of my family lived in Gibraltar for at least 6 years. European connections either way are possible but unknown.

Note: This has nothing to do with Brexit and my motivations are solely to investigate my personal ancestry and compare notes with others. Please don't discuss Brexit here.

Person 1 - Norway

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.9% (62.6‎ cM), 5 shared segments, 36.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 63.0%, Finnish 25.6%, Baltic 7.3%, Inuit 3.3%, Japanese and Korean 0.8%
Ancestral surnames: Norway, Finland, Sweden, Estonia

Person 2 - Finland

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.7% (50.8‎ cM), 3 shared segments, 36.9‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Scandinavian 3.6%, Finnish 90.8%, East European 5.6%
Ancestral surnames: All Finland

Person 3 - France

Estimated relationship: 3rd - 5th cousin
DNA Match quality: 0.6% (42.7‎ cM), 2 shared segments, 36.3‎ cM largest segment
Ethnicity estimate: Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 7.9%, North and West European 26.8%, Iberian 46.5%, Italian 15.1%, East European 3.7%
Ancestral surnames: All France
Note: French people can score Irish, Scottish, and Welsh. This person's tree looks to be all French, however.

Just wanted to comment real quick on any matches that are French associated with Irish or Scots ancestry etc - my Mom gets a ton of matches (all at least 10cm one segment and more total shared segments so legit matches) from Brittany, parts of France, Belgium, even in parts of Germany, Spain, Portugal... Italy all at Geneanet - and they all appear to be descendants probably of Irish exiles - a great example is that (keeping in mind all my Mom's family is either really early colonials to America so no matching there likely as they were all well documented early families involved in King Philip's War, French and Indian War and by that conflict they had been there for around a 100 years already - I'd have to check the exact dates, but very unlikely to explain these continental matches for Mom/Uncle etc etc)- or Scots Highland/Border Reivers and Irish speaking nobility recent arrivals)... she has a distant cousin match with someone in Northern Brittany (in the area where many exiles did in fact settle or move to - O'Sullivan Beare (and we do in fact have that family from West Cork showing in my Irish matches from there and Mom's Uncles etc - my cousin match with an O'Maloney from Cork is a great example of that connection - he is O'Maloney and Maloney Murray from Cork and our Hayes/O'Hanrahans had our Bridget Hayes at Enniskeane parish head preist an O'Sullivan and my O'Maloney cousin is O'Sullivan Beare from CastletownBeare and Beare Island and also Harrington from near there and also O'Driscoll from Skibbereen... all very near each other in West Cork!), Maguires and O'Dwyers... the one I noticed that actually had the exile in the family tree though... as I get the feeling (and research says a lot of them) changed their surnames... anyway this Breton cousin of Mom's is descended from a Francois Macquer - our immigrant ancestor to Ontario was a Francis Maguire (same name family etc - if you do a bit of research on that particular family and many went into exile - they later were heavily involved in trade and in fact one of our Francis Maguires in Ontario was a merchant born in Ireland and also head customs collector in Ontario along with his relative MacAulay (Scots Highlanders) as sub collector... so there is that trade connection as well as a family with their counter parts in "exile!")... so you can sometimes find that link... all those cousins on the continent for Mom/Uncle O'Dwyer are very, very likely sharing a common exile ancestor with us... as I said ALL my Mom's family is from Ireland, other than those colonials who came over in the mid 1600s... those in Spain would be very likely related to the O'Dwyers who served in the Irish brigade there - a Dermot O'Dwyer probably brother to one from Clonyharpe, and his sons were Captains in the Grenadiers in the Spanish Irish regiment - keeping in mind Col. Eamonn O'Dwyer went into exile and fought under Conde in the Spanish Netherlands and was later kia in Southern Spain - it's the only way to explain those far flung matches ;-).

Maybe your case is similar? Are you a descendant of any of those prominent rebel families? My Mom's father was a descendant of O'Dwyers (he was an O'Dwyer likely the line from Ballagh Castle - the Conor McEdmund O'Dwyers etc - they ended up in West Clare were our Philip O'Dwyer was from married with O'Gormans and one of our cousins in New South Wales is a descendant in each a separate line from Captain Michael O'Dwyer of Wicklow, Lt. Hugh Vesty O'Byrne (they were 1st cousins) and also a Conor "Cornelius" O'Dwyer tried in Limerick and shipped out on the Atlas in 1802... we get a lot of cousins there descended from those particular families... and on his mother's side he was a Maguire of Fermanagh (which is really Kinawley, Knockninny, Lisnaskea before Enniskillen was established) with all the matching with descendants of the O'Reillys of Northern Cavan (Col. Philip McHugh O'Reilly near Drung)... the MacMahons of Monaghan, and the Wallace and Armstrong Border reiver families who came over as soldiers in the plantation, but later married with Maguires - wasn't too hard to find a lease - Wallace owned or controlled Lisgoole Abbey after the Maguires lost the fights and a lot went into exile in France - and then leased it to the Armstrongs - additional evidence for that connection is that Mom and Dad were very likely related via the Scots and Irish ancestry - the early Scots/Irish community in Cumberland, Pennsylvania - ancestors of both my Mom's family (Armstrongs, Wallaces, Woods from Ireland around Longford and Nugent territory another connection to those Maguires as they married with the Nugents of Coolamber in Longford)... and Dad's Fergusons, Cummins/Comynes and others all ended up at the same first Presbyterian church in the early 1700s in Cumberland!!! I think it's very likely because Mom and I are related to the same Scottish Highland families - same kit match - BUT her match with that kit is through her x-match (that makes sense because any of her Scots ancestry would be via her Maguire line if not through her actual maternal line from Northern Tipperary - no Scots ancestry there so has to be "through" her father's x-line which is the Maguires!) - as the O'Dwyers being from the SW only married Irish from around that area - no Scots - and her maternal line goes back to Lorrha/Dorrha in Northern Tipperary and mixed with O'Kennedys, MacEgans, etc... all that supported by cousin matches example being she has like 20 O'Kennedy cousins some of them born in Ireland and more than one Egan cousin - they are Egans on both sides and from Ireland!) and mine is not shared with her and interestingly I am the closer match per segment size!!! Go figure... Scots and Irish all interrelated from certain families and areas in Scotland and Ireland... at least in my family tree!

Thought I'd make a comment on the exiles - maybe that's what's going on in your tree as well!

Cheers,
Charlie

lana6765
06-03-2021, 09:07 PM
Just wanted to comment real quick on any matches that are French associated with Irish or Scots ancestry etc - my Mom gets a ton of matches (all at least 10cm one segment and more total shared segments so legit matches) from Brittany, parts of France, Belgium, even in parts of Germany, Spain, Portugal... Italy all at Geneanet - and they all appear to be descendants probably of Irish exiles - a great example is that (keeping in mind all my Mom's family is either really early colonials to America so no matching there likely as they were all well documented early families involved in King Philip's War, French and Indian War and by that conflict they had been there for around a 100 years already - I'd have to check the exact dates, but very unlikely to explain these continental matches for Mom/Uncle etc etc)- or Scots Highland/Border Reivers and Irish speaking nobility recent arrivals)... she has a distant cousin match with someone in Northern Brittany (in the area where many exiles did in fact settle or move to - O'Sullivan Beare (and we do in fact have that family from West Cork showing in my Irish matches from there and Mom's Uncles etc - my cousin match with an O'Maloney from Cork is a great example of that connection - he is O'Maloney and Maloney Murray from Cork and our Hayes/O'Hanrahans had our Bridget Hayes at Enniskeane parish head preist an O'Sullivan and my O'Maloney cousin is O'Sullivan Beare from CastletownBeare and Beare Island and also Harrington from near there and also O'Driscoll from Skibbereen... all very near each other in West Cork!), Maguires and O'Dwyers... the one I noticed that actually had the exile in the family tree though... as I get the feeling (and research says a lot of them) changed their surnames... anyway this Breton cousin of Mom's is descended from a Francois Macquer - our immigrant ancestor to Ontario was a Francis Maguire (same name family etc - if you do a bit of research on that particular family and many went into exile - they later were heavily involved in trade and in fact one of our Francis Maguires in Ontario was a merchant born in Ireland and also head customs collector in Ontario along with his relative MacAulay (Scots Highlanders) as sub collector... so there is that trade connection as well as a family with their counter parts in "exile!")... so you can sometimes find that link... all those cousins on the continent for Mom/Uncle O'Dwyer are very, very likely sharing a common exile ancestor with us... as I said ALL my Mom's family is from Ireland, other than those colonials who came over in the mid 1600s... those in Spain would be very likely related to the O'Dwyers who served in the Irish brigade there - a Dermot O'Dwyer probably brother to one from Clonyharpe, and his sons were Captains in the Grenadiers in the Spanish Irish regiment - keeping in mind Col. Eamonn O'Dwyer went into exile and fought under Conde in the Spanish Netherlands and was later kia in Southern Spain - it's the only way to explain those far flung matches ;-).

Maybe your case is similar? Are you a descendant of any of those prominent rebel families? My Mom's father was a descendant of O'Dwyers (he was an O'Dwyer likely the line from Ballagh Castle - the Conor McEdmund O'Dwyers etc - they ended up in West Clare were our Philip O'Dwyer was from married with O'Gormans and one of our cousins in New South Wales is a descendant in each a separate line from Captain Michael O'Dwyer of Wicklow, Lt. Hugh Vesty O'Byrne (they were 1st cousins) and also a Conor "Cornelius" O'Dwyer tried in Limerick and shipped out on the Atlas in 1802... we get a lot of cousins there descended from those particular families... and on his mother's side he was a Maguire of Fermanagh (which is really Kinawley, Knockninny, Lisnaskea before Enniskillen was established) with all the matching with descendants of the O'Reillys of Northern Cavan (Col. Philip McHugh O'Reilly near Drung)... the MacMahons of Monaghan, and the Wallace and Armstrong Border reiver families who came over as soldiers in the plantation, but later married with Maguires - wasn't too hard to find a lease - Wallace owned or controlled Lisgoole Abbey after the Maguires lost the fights and a lot went into exile in France - and then leased it to the Armstrongs - additional evidence for that connection is that Mom and Dad were very likely related via the Scots and Irish ancestry - the early Scots/Irish community in Cumberland, Pennsylvania - ancestors of both my Mom's family (Armstrongs, Wallaces, Woods from Ireland around Longford and Nugent territory another connection to those Maguires as they married with the Nugents of Coolamber in Longford)... and Dad's Fergusons, Cummins/Comynes and others all ended up at the same first Presbyterian church in the early 1700s in Cumberland!!! I think it's very likely because Mom and I are related to the same Scottish Highland families - same kit match - BUT her match with that kit is through her x-match (that makes sense because any of her Scots ancestry would be via her Maguire line if not through her actual maternal line from Northern Tipperary - no Scots ancestry there so has to be "through" her father's x-line which is the Maguires!) - as the O'Dwyers being from the SW only married Irish from around that area - no Scots - and her maternal line goes back to Lorrha/Dorrha in Northern Tipperary and mixed with O'Kennedys, MacEgans, etc... all that supported by cousin matches example being she has like 20 O'Kennedy cousins some of them born in Ireland and more than one Egan cousin - they are Egans on both sides and from Ireland!) and mine is not shared with her and interestingly I am the closer match per segment size!!! Go figure... Scots and Irish all interrelated from certain families and areas in Scotland and Ireland... at least in my family tree!

Thought I'd make a comment on the exiles - maybe that's what's going on in your tree as well!

Cheers,
Charlie

I don't know if any of my ancestors were exiles. To give a little background, my Irish ones were all farmers from County Mayo and had mostly Irish names, but some Norman as well. They were catholic and spoke both Irish and English (according to the census).

lana6765
06-03-2021, 09:18 PM
So you have Scandinavian matches >20 cM that you share with a parent?

I think I'm going to try and beg my parents to test!

I did get some 17 cM matches (single segments) on 23andme as well and some with my combined kit on GEDmatch. But I have to say I have very little confidence in my MyHeritage matches now! Maybe there's some distant truth to some of the matches, but I'm unlikely to get accurate relationship estimates/segment lengths.

Capitalis
06-04-2021, 06:53 AM
I think I'm going to try and beg my parents to test!

I did get some 17 cM matches (single segments) on 23andme as well and some with my combined kit on GEDmatch. But I have to say I have very little confidence in my MyHeritage matches now! Maybe there's some distant truth to some of the matches, but I'm unlikely to get accurate relationship estimates/segment lengths.

I was going to make a G25 Isles plot for you with my own explanation for why we (Isles folk) are getting Scandi matches (remember, I am always "guessing", but doing my best to approach the truth), but I'm not sure how you feel about G25. I will post it in my own thread linked in my signature so as not to hijack this thread.

All I can say as far as MyHeritage, is that I have gone through all of my continental matches, ruling out anyone who has an Isles surname in their tree, anyone who has an Isles Genetic Group, anyone who doesn't know who their father is, anyone who is assigned the majority of their ancestry to the Isles (note: this doesn't work for Dutch people, who often receive as much Isles as us).

After this elimination process, exactly 50% (!) of my top 20 German matches were not matched to either of my parents. None of these matches were large (defined by largest segment), but it gives you an idea of what I feel is the inaccuracy of MyHeritage matching. The overlap in tested markers between LivingDNA and MyHeritage is low.

Also, through this process I identified a number of my own pile-up regions that are common in matching with a range of Northern European populations.

lana6765
06-04-2021, 11:11 AM
My Irish sides lived in more rural areas, but even then they haven’t always lived in the same village. I suppose they could have been fairly homogenously Irish, but let’s not confuse that with endogamy or inbreeding.

Just as a side note - I’ve heard people say a few times that Irish people are ‘inbred’ etc. Mainly people on the internet, but also a celebrity.

Either way my Irish side is not likely to be endogamous or inbred.

The reason is that I have known Irish family members who have tested with 23andme and Ancestry. All share about as much DNA with me as I would expect. Which probably means this part of Ireland probably wasn’t endogamous.

I’m not sure where this assumption comes from tbh.

lana6765
06-04-2021, 11:18 AM
I was going to make a G25 Isles plot for you with my own explanation for why we (Isles folk) are getting Scandi matches (remember, I am always "guessing", but doing my best to approach the truth), but I'm not sure how you feel about G25. I will post it in my own thread linked in my signature so as not to hijack this thread.

All I can say as far as MyHeritage, is that I have gone through all of my continental matches, ruling out anyone who has an Isles surname in their tree, anyone who has an Isles Genetic Group, anyone who doesn't know who their father is, anyone who is assigned the majority of their ancestry to the Isles (note: this doesn't work for Dutch people, who often receive as much Isles as us).

After this elimination process, exactly 50% (!) of my top 20 German matches were not matched to either of my parents. None of these matches were large (defined by largest segment), but it gives you an idea of what I feel is the inaccuracy of MyHeritage matching. The overlap in tested markers between LivingDNA and MyHeritage is low.

Also, through this process I identified a number of my own pile-up regions that are common in matching with a range of Northern European populations.

If you like. Here are my coordinates:
LanaAncestry_scaled,0.135449,0.127957,0.066373,0.0 49742,0.038776,0.014502,0.00141,0.008769,0.001023, 0.006014,-0.009581,0.005245,-0.013974,-0.011836,0.016422,0.005304,-0.004433,0.003674,-0.002011,-0.001876,0.01148,0.002844,0.002711,0.014339,0.0007 18

LanaAncestry,0.0119,0.0126,0.0176,0.0154,0.0126,0. 0052,0.0006,0.0038,0.0005,0.0033,-0.0059,0.0035,-0.0094,-0.0086,0.0121,0.004,-0.0034,0.0029,-0.0016,-0.0015,0.0092,0.0023,0.0022,0.0119,0.0006

My feeling is though that G25 is less good at separating recent and ancient ancestry.

Nqp15hhu
06-04-2021, 11:41 AM
Just as a side note - Iíve heard people say a few times that Irish people are Ďinbredí etc. Mainly people on the internet, but also a celebrity.

Either way my Irish side is not likely to be endogamous or inbred.

The reason is that I have known Irish family members who have tested with 23andme and Ancestry. All share about as much DNA with me as I would expect. Which probably means this part of Ireland probably wasnít endogamous.

Iím not sure where this assumption comes from tbh.

This is more about the family and how rural it is. On my mums side I have matches whom Iím related to multiple ways. On my fathers side I am only related to all matches through one line.

My mumís family originated in a very rural and community orientated place.

lana6765
06-05-2021, 03:49 PM
This is more about the family and how rural it is. On my mums side I have matches whom Iím related to multiple ways. On my fathers side I am only related to all matches through one line.

My mumís family originated in a very rural and community orientated place.

A lot of my family were from rural areas, but I think it was less community oriented. They seemed to marry people from the general area. Also, the effect of the famine was that a great number of the family emigrated. There was a sudden population drop in the area due to emigration and mortality.