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Marko47
12-30-2020, 07:49 PM
Hello everyone,

I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.

alejandromb92
12-30-2020, 09:38 PM
Hello everyone,

I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.

R-Z36 is more related with previous italic migrations than to lombards. If you mean lombard from actual Lombardy region, not sure.

Cascio
12-30-2020, 09:52 PM
R-Z36 is common in Lombardy, notably around Bergamo and Brescia, but it is far older in northern Italy (maybe 1500 years or more older) than the Langobard invasion and may go back to Celtic invasions, both Lepontic and later Cisalpine Gallic.

MitchellSince1893
12-30-2020, 09:57 PM
Hello everyone,

I recently put my Big Y test on YFull and had my results analyzed finally. I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy, and his number begins with an "HG" which I have heard is indicative of him being a part of a study. There is another individual possibly from the same study, in Z36. Could this person at R-FT330613 be from a study of Lombards and what does that say about me exactly? My paternal family identifies as Greek and originally comes from the outskirts of what is now Istanbul, Turkey. They have mostly a Balkan profile autosomally, but we do have some Baltic/Italian/Scandinavian results. (trace amount) I have always assumed we have an Italo-Celtic haplogroup from either Balkan or Anatolian Celts, so this would be a new development for me. Thanks for any help.

By the way on YFULL it says that me and the individual from Bergamo share 34 SNPs, and 18 assumed shared SNPs.

Just a guess, but your paternal line could have been in present day Italy and moved to Constantinople during the Roman Era. Anything is possible but I haven’t seen much of a historical connection between the Lombards and Constantintiople.

Except for this


After being used as a mercenary army by the Byzantine empire, the Lombards began to invade northern Italy.

Marko47
12-30-2020, 10:06 PM
This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.

Does it make more sense that I match with this person in the study who has a Cisalpine Celtic background (let's say) while my background would be similar if it came from the Balkan/Anatolian Galatians who I have read were thought to have been in part Belgae? (or Gauls) I have also read that the Boii were active in Northern Italy and also headed East to the Balkans during the Celtic invasions of the Balkans.

Cascio
12-30-2020, 10:32 PM
This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.


Z36 is common today in Wallonia and Northern italy but only common in parts of eastern France closest to Switzerland which may be the ultimate source of R-Z36.

R-DF27 and R-L21 are more common in modern France than R-Z36.

MitchellSince1893
12-30-2020, 10:34 PM
This is what I have read previously about Z36: During the Iron Age, the expansion of the La Tène culture from Switzerland is associated with the diffusion of the Z36 branch, which would generate the Belgae around modern Belgium and in the Rhineland, the Gauls in France, and the Cisalpine Celts in Italy.

Does it make more sense that I match with this person in the study who has a Cisalpine Celtic background (let's say) while my background would be similar if it came from the Balkan/Anatolian Galatians who I have read were thought to have been in part Belgae? (or Gauls) I have also read that the Boii were active in Northern Italy and also headed East to the Balkans during the Celtic invasions of the Balkans.
It’s a common predicament for many of us. There’s just so many possibilities. Hopefully, future ancient/Medieval dna testing can help us reduce the likely possibilities.

Testing of Viking samples (VK40) has had the opposite effect on my own thinking, forcing me to add Viking arrivals into Britain as a realistic possibility for my own line. Prior to VK40, I had given little thought to a Viking origin for my paternal line.

My father’s closest paternal match traces his paternal line back to Westmorland, England...an area with known Norse inhabitants.

CelticGerman
12-30-2020, 10:59 PM
I'm R-CTS4333 and the only matches with this SNP I have are from Puerto Rico (also HG project) and an adopted person with unknown ancestry. Without any additional information these matches do not help at all. At least I'm not alone. They may think they are of German origin because of my latest proven ancestor in Thuringia (probably an ancestor moved there in mid 16th century from Alsace).

Marko47
12-30-2020, 11:16 PM
Both you and the Puerto Rican match are on my match list about 5 slots down. I noticed that match too with the HG beginning from Puerto Rico.

CelticGerman
12-30-2020, 11:35 PM
Both you and the Puerto Rican match are on my match list about 5 slots down. I noticed that match too with the HG beginning from Puerto Rico.

On Wikipedia you can find an article concerning German immigration to Puerto Rico. This might be the explanation. I found my surname there with different spelling (probably the original version which is frequent in France and with origin in Luxembourg). Nevertheless, it's not enough information for certitude.

Unk Kadath
09-02-2021, 07:47 PM
I am in the subclade Z36 of R-U152, specifically at R-FT330613. I have one SNP match at my terminal SNP that is listed as coming from Bergamo, Italy

Probably the only real conclusion you can draw is that you are Continental Celtic, at least in distant ancestry,
as opposed to the Isles Celtic L-21 that is generally recognized in modern times as Celtic origin..

The degree to which you can assess any other conclusions is really limited based upon the degree to which your paternal line has been in-situ, in a relatively undisturbed region that has not been razed or depopulated. This would obviously not apply to Instanbul, unfortunately.

For diagnostic purposes, your match is located in -

1) an area central to the Continental Alpine Celt civilization
2) In an city that was controlled by the Venetians, and populated in large part by descendants of Alpine Celts, who had been Romanized, culturally.

So, given the massive presence of Venetian merchants, military forces and settlements centered in and around Istanbul/Constantinople, this could be a potential route for your match, however given the normal minority component of U-152 in mainland Greeks (and certain Slavic / Balkan states) who were never part of the Hellenic diaspora, its also possible that you are descended from the Alpine Celtic expansions through the Balkans, from a much earlier time.

Its also possible that given the almost total absence of early Greek and Macedonian Y results, that as Indo-Europeans, the early populations of the mainland may have had a much larger paternal component of this ancestry which became a minority, however this is pure speculation.