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J Man
01-03-2021, 05:13 AM
The village of Shengjin in Fan Mirdite is an interesting one so far in terms of Y-DNA results. So far all of the tested samples from this village are J2a-L70 which of course is very rare among the Ghegs of Northern Albania. Sources seem to say that the founder of this village was a man named ''Gjin'' that arrived there probably during the 18th century although there seems to be some indications that he may have arrived earlier although it really is hard to say.


https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C3%ABngjin_(Mirdit%C3%AB)

https://es-la.facebook.com/554394537968431/posts/shengjin-fane-mirditefshati-shengjin-eshte-i-perbere-nga-lagjet-flyre-ka-nje-sip/1352326358175241/

https://issuu.com/rresheni/docs/fan_profile_eng

Kelmendasi
02-14-2021, 01:41 PM
On the Albanian Rrnjt project Facebook page, a new post (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=247644973603074&id=101700961530810&__tn__=K-R)regarding the village of Shngjin in Fan, Mirdita, has been posted. A couple of interesting points are brought up in the post.

It seems that the project has almost tested at least one male member from every brotherhood of Shngjin which is very good. The oral traditions of the village all seem to state that the brotherhoods of Noka, ei, Ndreu, and Boi all come from the same paternal ancestor, whilst the Bushati are an unrelated fis that may have lived in the region prior to the arrival of the ancestor of the aforementioned brotherhoods. Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village. As for where the four main brotherhoods came from, Mark Prendi states that they came from the southeast, crossing Mali i Zepes. Preng Vorfi on the other hand suggests that they came from Bitola (Manastir in Albanian), but that they also share common origin with some brotherhoods from Klin in Peja, Kosovo.

In regards to Y-DNA, five members coming from the Boi, Noka, ei, and Bushati have tested as J2a-Y24651 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/). Close clusters have been found around Tirana, Bulqiza, Lezha, Elbasan, Fier, Himara, and also in a sample with Aromanian origin from Voskopoj. Though one sample from Debar in North Macedonia belongs to this same cluster, which might give credibility to the tradition of origin from the southeast. Sample R136 from Imperial Rome belonged to J2a-Y24651>Z40772 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40772/), suggesting a potential arrival with the Romans.

Korabi
02-14-2021, 03:20 PM
On the Albanian Rrnjt project Facebook page, a new post (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=247644973603074&id=101700961530810&__tn__=K-R)regarding the village of Shngjin in Fan, Mirdita, has been posted. A couple of interesting points are brought up in the post.

It seems that the project has almost tested at least one male member from every brotherhood of Shngjin which is very good. The oral traditions of the village all seem to state that the brotherhoods of Noka, ei, Ndreu, and Boi all come from the same paternal ancestor, whilst the Bushati are an unrelated fis that may have lived in the region prior to the arrival of the ancestor of the aforementioned brotherhoods. Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village. As for where the four main brotherhoods came from, Mark Prendi states that they came from the southeast, crossing Mali i Zepes. Preng Vorfi on the other hand suggests that they came from Bitola (Manastir in Albanian), but that they also share common origin with some brotherhoods from Klin in Peja, Kosovo.

In regards to Y-DNA, five members coming from the Boi, Noka, ei, and Bushati have tested as J2a-Y24651 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/). Close clusters have been found around Tirana, Bulqiza, Lezha, Elbasan, Fier, Himara, and also in a sample with Aromanian origin from Voskopoj. Though one sample from Debar in North Macedonia belongs to this same cluster, which might give credibility to the tradition of origin from the southeast. Sample R136 from Imperial Rome belonged to J2a-Y24651>Z40772 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40772/), suggesting a potential arrival with the Romans.

Not to derail the main subject. But I recently got an interesting 23andme match in J2a. More specifically -L70 from Kosova.

J Man
02-14-2021, 03:47 PM
On the Albanian Rrnjt project Facebook page, a new post (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=247644973603074&id=101700961530810&__tn__=K-R)regarding the village of Shngjin in Fan, Mirdita, has been posted. A couple of interesting points are brought up in the post.

It seems that the project has almost tested at least one male member from every brotherhood of Shngjin which is very good. The oral traditions of the village all seem to state that the brotherhoods of Noka, ei, Ndreu, and Boi all come from the same paternal ancestor, whilst the Bushati are an unrelated fis that may have lived in the region prior to the arrival of the ancestor of the aforementioned brotherhoods. Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village. As for where the four main brotherhoods came from, Mark Prendi states that they came from the southeast, crossing Mali i Zepes. Preng Vorfi on the other hand suggests that they came from Bitola (Manastir in Albanian), but that they also share common origin with some brotherhoods from Klin in Peja, Kosovo.

In regards to Y-DNA, five members coming from the Boi, Noka, ei, and Bushati have tested as J2a-Y24651 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/). Close clusters have been found around Tirana, Bulqiza, Lezha, Elbasan, Fier, Himara, and also in a sample with Aromanian origin from Voskopoj. Though one sample from Debar in North Macedonia belongs to this same cluster, which might give credibility to the tradition of origin from the southeast. Sample R136 from Imperial Rome belonged to J2a-Y24651>Z40772 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40772/), suggesting a potential arrival with the Romans.

I have talked to a few people from this village on Facebook and it is quite clear that they are very proud of where they come from. They seem to have a very strong identity among them. Unfortunately none of them seem to know when Shngjin was settled though.

trdbr1234
02-14-2021, 03:56 PM
On the Albanian Rrnjt project Facebook page, a new post (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=247644973603074&id=101700961530810&__tn__=K-R)regarding the village of Shngjin in Fan, Mirdita, has been posted. A couple of interesting points are brought up in the post.

It seems that the project has almost tested at least one male member from every brotherhood of Shngjin which is very good. The oral traditions of the village all seem to state that the brotherhoods of Noka, ei, Ndreu, and Boi all come from the same paternal ancestor, whilst the Bushati are an unrelated fis that may have lived in the region prior to the arrival of the ancestor of the aforementioned brotherhoods. Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village. As for where the four main brotherhoods came from, Mark Prendi states that they came from the southeast, crossing Mali i Zepes. Preng Vorfi on the other hand suggests that they came from Bitola (Manastir in Albanian), but that they also share common origin with some brotherhoods from Klin in Peja, Kosovo.

In regards to Y-DNA, five members coming from the Boi, Noka, ei, and Bushati have tested as J2a-Y24651 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/). Close clusters have been found around Tirana, Bulqiza, Lezha, Elbasan, Fier, Himara, and also in a sample with Aromanian origin from Voskopoj. Though one sample from Debar in North Macedonia belongs to this same cluster, which might give credibility to the tradition of origin from the southeast. Sample R136 from Imperial Rome belonged to J2a-Y24651>Z40772 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40772/), suggesting a potential arrival with the Romans.

Do we know the TMRCA between the Shengjin individuals? As well as between them and the Dibra individuals?

Rrenjet.
02-14-2021, 06:03 PM
Do we know the TMRCA between the Shengjin individuals? As well as between them and the Dibra individuals?

These distances have not been calculated through high resolution testing. We currently have some hints, but no conclusive evidence, to support the tradition of ancestry from SE.

broder
02-15-2021, 06:23 PM
Same cluster seems to be widespread among Vlachs. Encountered among Vlachs of Krusevo, Shtip and Kogalnicea, Romania in Bosch paper.

J Man
04-17-2021, 06:04 PM
On the Albanian Rrnjt project Facebook page, a new post (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=247644973603074&id=101700961530810&__tn__=K-R)regarding the village of Shngjin in Fan, Mirdita, has been posted. A couple of interesting points are brought up in the post.

It seems that the project has almost tested at least one male member from every brotherhood of Shngjin which is very good. The oral traditions of the village all seem to state that the brotherhoods of Noka, ei, Ndreu, and Boi all come from the same paternal ancestor, whilst the Bushati are an unrelated fis that may have lived in the region prior to the arrival of the ancestor of the aforementioned brotherhoods. Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village. As for where the four main brotherhoods came from, Mark Prendi states that they came from the southeast, crossing Mali i Zepes. Preng Vorfi on the other hand suggests that they came from Bitola (Manastir in Albanian), but that they also share common origin with some brotherhoods from Klin in Peja, Kosovo.

In regards to Y-DNA, five members coming from the Boi, Noka, ei, and Bushati have tested as J2a-Y24651 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651/). Close clusters have been found around Tirana, Bulqiza, Lezha, Elbasan, Fier, Himara, and also in a sample with Aromanian origin from Voskopoj. Though one sample from Debar in North Macedonia belongs to this same cluster, which might give credibility to the tradition of origin from the southeast. Sample R136 from Imperial Rome belonged to J2a-Y24651>Z40772 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z40772/), suggesting a potential arrival with the Romans.

Another interesting thing about these families from Shengjin is that they all claim that the Bushati family was already present in the area of Shengjin before the others arrived. Traditionally they claim to be unrelated but they do not intermarry. Bushati though matches the rest in terms of Y-DNA...They are all part of the same genetic lineage it seems.

Kelmendasi
05-17-2021, 02:26 AM
Oral traditions also mention an older Cakoni fis which is no longer present in the village.
The Cakoni according to a source presented to me by J Man were in numerous territorial disputes and conflicts with the Bushati, ultimately leading to them being displaced from Shngjin to the settlement of Bushkash which today is within the Mat District and I believe traditionally belongs to the ethnographic or tribal region of Rranza. There they grew developing into three brotherhoods: Cakoni, Algjeka, and Halili. I have also come across this family name in other villages of the Ulz Municipality such as Baz, Ulz and Urak. So it could be possible to reach out to individuals from these villages to test. Branches have even settled further south-west, for example in the village of Borizan to the north of Kruja.

XXD
05-17-2021, 12:07 PM
The Cakoni according to a source presented to me by J Man were in numerous territorial disputes and conflicts with the Bushati, ultimately leading to them being displaced from Shngjin to the settlement of Bushkash which today is within the Mat District and I believe traditionally belongs to the ethnographic or tribal region of Rranza. There they grew developing into three brotherhoods: Cakoni, Algjeka, and Halili. I have also come across this family name in other villages of the Ulz Municipality such as Baz, Ulz and Urak. So it could be possible to reach out to individuals from these villages to test. Branches have even settled further south-west, for example in the village of Borizan to the north of Kruja.

Does the name Cakoni have an Albanian etymology? Because the Tzakones were a special corps of guerilla soldiers who were used to guard castles by the Byzantines, especially in frontier areas. Given the prominent role of Albanians as mercenaries, I was wondering whether some of them functioned as Tzakones as well.

Kelmendasi
05-17-2021, 07:41 PM
Does the name Cakoni have an Albanian etymology? Because the Tzakones were a special corps of guerilla soldiers who were used to guard castles by the Byzantines, especially in frontier areas. Given the prominent role of Albanians as mercenaries, I was wondering whether some of them functioned as Tzakones as well.
To be honest I am not too sure on the etymology of this name, it may very well be connected to tzakōnes (Τζάκωνες) and has a connotation with the mercenary/marine group. But what makes me sceptical is the fact that that the aforementioned name seems to be a connected to the Tsakonians with the name itself possibly being a corruption of Lakōnes (Λάκωνες) or 'Laconians'.

XXD
05-17-2021, 08:03 PM
To be honest I am not too sure on the etymology of this name, it may very well be connected to tzakōnes (Τζάκωνες) and has a connotation with the mercenary/marine group. But what makes me sceptical is the fact that that the aforementioned name seems to be a connected to the Tsakonians with the name itself possibly being a corruption of Lakōnes (Λάκωνες) or 'Laconians'.

In fact, the name of the Tsakonians comes from a combination of Tzakones + Lacones. So the Laconians of SouthEastern Peloponnese where employed by the Byzantines as Tzakones, and the word Lacones became corrupted into Tsakones. There are Tzakonies in many parts of the Byzantine world.

In fact the medieval and modern Greek word to intercept is τσακώνω (tsakono), and to have an argument with someone is τσακώνομαι (tsakonome), because the Tzakones would intercept foreign enemies from the towers they were guarding.

If there were Kastrati Albanians, perhaps why not Cakoni? Many Albanians were mercenaries for the Byzantines. But who knows, their actual etymology may stem from another word.