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Elske
01-18-2021, 06:55 PM
Hello!

I'm Elske and I come from the Netherlands. I recently did a DNA-test (MyHeritage) and I was a bit confused by the results. I expected a high percentage North and West-European, but that's not the case.

Results MyHeritage:
48% Scandinavian
37,6% English
10,2% North and West European
4,2% Finnish

So after that I uploaded my raw DNA to GEDmatch. I ran a few calculators and now I'm even more confused! ;)

I get West-Scotland with Eurogenes K13, Norway with Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 and Denmark with Eurogenes K36. I also ran some other calculators and those outcomes seem very weird to me. Orcadian, Shetland islands, Orkney islands, Argyll and Bute and even Iceland. My family tree is very Frisian and I can trace some lines back to the 17th century in Friesland. Can someone with more experience help me with my results? What do you think? What happened haha? My GEDmatch kit-number is YJ4047623

Kind regards,
Elske

These are the results from Eurogenes K13, Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 and K36.

Eurogenes K13
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 54.88
2 Baltic 22.89
3 West_Med 9.25
4 West_Asian 7.72
5 East_Med 1.32
6 South_Asian 1.03


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Scottish @ 4.360655
2 Irish @ 4.723590
3 Orcadian @ 6.025393
4 North_Dutch @ 6.692743
5 Danish @ 7.080417
6 Norwegian @ 7.263780
7 Southwest_English @ 7.493117
8 Southeast_English @ 8.256679
9 North_German @ 9.614252
10 Swedish @ 10.742491
11 South_Dutch @ 13.823736
12 West_German @ 14.951942
13 North_Swedish @ 17.831327
14 French @ 19.573328
15 Austrian @ 21.017225
16 East_German @ 21.299185
17 Hungarian @ 26.013918
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 27.144526
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 27.344744
20 Southwest_French @ 28.256506

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +50% West_Scottish @ 4.360655


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish @ 4.360655


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.360655
2 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.407190
3 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.484448
4 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.499399
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.587667
6 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.616492
7 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.620183
8 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.627473
9 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.705427
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.723590
11 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.725576
12 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.731634
13 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 4.760079
14 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.769755
15 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.857495
16 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.861999
17 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 4.862321
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 4.924794
19 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.949561
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 4.980607


EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 46.45
2 Atlantic 24.52
3 Baltic 9.14
4 West_Med 6.05
5 Eastern_Euro 5.87
6 West_Asian 4.91
7 Siberian 1.01


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Norwegian @ 7.576653
2 Orcadian @ 8.791408
3 Norwegian @ 10.153351
4 North_Dutch @ 10.591898
5 Swedish @ 11.396733
6 West_Scottish @ 11.656167
7 Danish @ 12.080496
8 Irish @ 12.436927
9 Southeast_English @ 13.131688
10 Southwest_English @ 13.567565
11 North_German @ 15.189331
12 West_German @ 15.399151
13 North_Swedish @ 16.181864
14 South_Dutch @ 18.507126
15 French @ 21.892984
16 East_German @ 23.754824
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 24.606916
18 Finnish @ 26.828611
19 Hungarian @ 27.985327
20 Austrian @ 29.559710

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +50% West_Norwegian @ 7.303298


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian @ 7.303298


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.202964
2 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.303298
3 West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.576653
4 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.827391
5 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 7.863864
6 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 7.920739
7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.926695
8 West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 7.946229
9 Orcadian + Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.985064
10 Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 7.995120
11 North_Dutch + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.001756
12 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 8.058501
13 Irish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.066842
14 Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.177138
15 Southeast_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.178503
16 Southwest_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.188323
17 Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.200743
18 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 8.285810
19 Danish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.312731
20 Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.344002

I ran the Eurogenes K36 calculator and I filled in the percentages on https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

Population
Amerindian 0.16 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.67 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.05 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.35 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.98 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 13.42 Pct
French 9.79 Pct
Iberian 10.78 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.96 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 17.01 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 23.79 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 2.22 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.83 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

I'll only mention the dark red and red sections.: Denmark (87), The Netherlands, (86), West-Scotland (85), East-England (84), South-West Wales (83), North-East Ireland (82), Central-Ireland (82), South Norway (82), South Sweden (81) and North Germany (80)

Pylsteen
01-18-2021, 07:51 PM
It is normal for Northern Dutch to receive a large Scandinavian percentage; especially Southern Dutch receive a large amount of NW European. That you get a lot of British in several calculators is also normal; what happens is that you are being compared to several averages of different populations of which the individuals have a lot of overlap. Here is an image I made in which you can see the overlap of these individuals.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKfyTc1r/G25-NWEur-PCA.png

What these ethnicity estimates show is your similarity to (and not necessarily descent from) these groups. What might be more telling are your genetic groups on MyHeritage and of course the (closer) matches. You are welcome in the Dutch thread (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22512-De-Nederlandse-Praatbank) too.

xerxez
01-18-2021, 08:11 PM
It is normal for Northern Dutch to receive a large Scandinavian percentage; especially Southern Dutch receive a large amount of NW European. That you get a lot of British in several calculators is also normal; what happens is that you are being compared to several averages of different populations of which the individuals have a lot of overlap. Here is an image I made in which you can see the overlap of these individuals.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKfyTc1r/G25-NWEur-PCA.png

What these ethnicity estimates show is your similarity to (and not necessarily descent from) these groups. What might be more telling are your genetic groups on MyHeritage and of course the (closer) matches. You are welcome in the Dutch thread (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22512-De-Nederlandse-Praatbank) too.

Hi, you should try to get your Global25 coordinates with Davidski : https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html

It's more accurate than old calculators purposed on Gedmatch

Elske
01-18-2021, 08:16 PM
Hello Pylsteen!

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it! :)

MyHeritage put me in a few genetic groups:
Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam


My close matches on MyHeritage and GEDmatch are Frisian / Dutch. The Frisians descend from Angles, Jutes, Saxons and some remaining Frisii. And Frisia was also connected to the Viking world. Could that explain the high percentage of Scandinavian DNA in Northern Dutch people?

Elske
01-18-2021, 08:28 PM
Hi, you should try to get your Global25 coordinates with Davidski : https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html

It's more accurate than old calculators purposed on Gedmatch

Thanks! I'll take a look at it!

xerxez
01-18-2021, 08:49 PM
On both of these PCA made on your Eurogenes K13 (https://imgur.com/I3fguj5) and Eurogenes K15 (https://imgur.com/IH7gfyM) coordinates, your location is closer to Scottish and West Norwegian than North Dutch as you are more respectively North Atlantic and North Sea than North Dutch (who are however still very high with these components). It would be interesting to have your G25 coordinates to confirm this.

Assuming that the coordinates of the Eurogenes models would be very precise, this could perhaps mean that your ancestors were further removed from continental influences (even more than "middle" North Dutch) and / or scandinavian origins rather from west Norway?

Elske
01-18-2021, 09:01 PM
Hello Xerxez!

Thanks for the PCA. I get a lot of Scotland in the calculators...it's sooo curious! :)

When I've figured out how that G25 works, I'll be able to give you my coordinates.

xerxez
01-18-2021, 09:09 PM
Hello Xerxez!

Thanks for the PCA. I get a lot of Scotland in the calculators...it's sooo curious! :)

When I've figured out how that G25 works, I'll be able to give you my coordinates.

You have to send an email to [email protected] to request your Global25 coordinates. You have to send him 12 USD for this service

Elske
01-18-2021, 09:13 PM
You have to send an email to [email protected] to request your Global25 coordinates. You have to send him 12 USD for this service

Okay! I'll do that tomorrow. Do you know how I can pay the 12 USD?

xerxez
01-18-2021, 09:16 PM
Okay! I'll do that tomorrow. Do you know how I can pay the 12 USD?

I paid him with with PayPal.

lana6765
01-18-2021, 10:37 PM
I will be interested to see your results.

I think there’s a lot of overlap between North West Europeans around the North Sea, which could be why you’re getting Scottish and Scandinavian.

Shadogowah
01-19-2021, 08:34 AM
Hello!

I'm Elske and I come from the Netherlands. I recently did a DNA-test (MyHeritage) and I was a bit confused by the results. I expected a high percentage North and West-European, but that's not the case.


My wife had very similar results. Half of her ancestry is Frisian and the other half is Groninger.

Nothing strange as the history of this part of Europe as far as I am concerned is closely related to Saxons and Vikings, a recipe also extensible to most of Britain.

Elske
01-19-2021, 10:50 AM
I sent Davidski a request for my Global 25 coordinates and I've paid 12 USD with PayPal. I got an auto-reply. He's on vacation and he'll be back on february the 1st. So I'll have to wait! :)

Elske
01-19-2021, 09:57 PM
I will be interested to see your results.

I think there’s a lot of overlap between North West Europeans around the North Sea, which could be why you’re getting Scottish and Scandinavian.


Well, I expected some Scandinavian DNA, but not 48% haha! England is explainable, as we also descend from Angles, Jutes, Saxons and Frisii. But Scotland and Ireland? That's still a big mystery to me. I hope that G25 will give me more answers. I asked my father if he knows something about a connection with Scotland / Ireland, but he doesn't know. He joked about our red hair though! ;)

xerxez
01-20-2021, 09:10 PM
Well, I expected some Scandinavian DNA, but not 48% haha! England is explainable, as we also descend from Angles, Jutes, Saxons and Frisii. But Scotland and Ireland? That's still a big mystery to me. I hope that G25 will give me more answers. I asked my father if he knows something about a connection with Scotland / Ireland, but he doesn't know. He joked about our red hair though! ;)

I think you re close to Scotland does not necessary mean you have recent scottish ancestors, rather that you are of the same old genetic make up as scottish, more coastal, less continental than the average north dutch.

Elske
01-21-2021, 01:40 PM
I think you re close to Scotland does not necessary mean you have recent scottish ancestors, rather that you are of the same old genetic make up as scottish, more coastal, less continental than the average north dutch.

I know, but it would be nice to have some Celtic genes haha!

I transferred the raw data from MyHeritage to FTDNA and I got the results this morning.
100% Western Europe:
Central Europe: 53%
England, Wales and Scotland: 25%
Scandinavia: 18%
Ireland: 5%

So with FTDNA I'm more Central European and less Scandinavian. And I lost Finland and I got Ireland instead. Hilarious! :P

RVBLAKE
01-21-2021, 03:51 PM
Hey Cousin, you and I match at 6.3 Cm at Chromosome 12:beerchug:

Elske
01-21-2021, 04:16 PM
Hey Cousin, you and I match at 6.3 Cm at Chromosome 12:beerchug:

Really? Well cheers then haha! :beerchug:

RVBLAKE
01-21-2021, 06:00 PM
Really? Well cheers then haha! :beerchug:

My Gedmatch kit no. is A583482

Elske
01-21-2021, 06:13 PM
Thanks! I haven't done any comparisons yet, so I'll take a look at it later! :)

xerxez
01-21-2021, 08:38 PM
I know, but it would be nice to have some Celtic genes haha!

I transferred the raw data from MyHeritage to FTDNA and I got the results this morning.
100% Western Europe:
Central Europe: 53%
England, Wales and Scotland: 25%
Scandinavia: 18%
Ireland: 5%

So with FTDNA I'm more Central European and less Scandinavian. And I lost Finland and I got Ireland instead. Hilarious! :P

Funny ! Not really convinced about commercial dna tests except 23andme. Myheritage genetic groups are also accurate (they found you're Frisian)

Elske
01-21-2021, 09:19 PM
Funny ! Not really convinced about commercial dna tests except 23andme. Myheritage genetic groups are also accurate (they found you're Frisian)

Yes, they found my Frisian genes haha. And the matches (MyHeritage and FTDNA) on the first page are mostly Frisian. I can tell, because they have typical Frisian first- and surnames.

Maybe I'll order two 23andme tests, because my father wants to do a test as well. Then I'll know his Y-DNA AND my mtDNA. MyHeritage doesn't provide those data.

xerxez
01-21-2021, 09:25 PM
Yes, they found my Frisian genes haha. And the matches (MyHeritage and FTDNA) on the first page are mostly Frisian. I can tell, because they have typical Frisian first- and surnames.

Maybe I'll order two 23andme tests, because my father wants to do a test as well. Then I'll know his Y-DNA AND my mtDNA. MyHeritage doesn't provide those data.

Can you give the countries of your Myheritage matches ?

Elske
01-21-2021, 09:44 PM
Can you give the countries of your Myheritage matches ?


On the first page only Frisians. On the 5 pages after that I see a lot of Frisians / Dutchies mixed with people from Sweden, Denmark, UK, Germany, Australia and USA

xerxez
01-21-2021, 09:51 PM
On the first page only Frisians. On the 5 pages after that I see a lot of Frisians / Dutchies mixed with people from Sweden, Denmark, UK, Germany, Australia and USA

Interesting

What gives the global statistics ?
For me for example :

Pays
Nombre de correspondances
Etats-Unis d'Amérique
432
France
139
Allemagne
129
Grande-Bretagne
73
Pays-Bas
33
Suède
31
Australie
28
Danemark
22
Canada
20
Autriche
18
Finlande
16
Belgique
14
Irlande
13
Norvège
13
Pologne
12
Espagne
10
République Tchèque
9
Russie
7
Hongrie
7
Nouvelle-Zélande
7
Suisse
6
Ukraine
5
Grèce
2
Slovénie
2
Emirats Arabes Unis
2
Luxembourg
2
Islande
2
Italie
1
Bosnie-Herzégovine
1
Equateur
1
Groenland
1
Japon
1
Brésil
1
Macédoine du Nord
1
Iles Féroé
1
Bulgarie
1
Lettonie
1

Ajeje Brazorf
01-21-2021, 10:55 PM
This kind of inconsistency could be dictated by the lower quality of the new chips from the various DNA testing companies. I suggest instead to follow this guide to convert your raw data to 23andMe V3 format to get a much higher coverage in the calculators (the maximum SNPs you currently reach in the admixture runs on GEDmatch is only 78505 compared to over 180000 of 23andMe V3).

https://dnagenics.com/convert-23andme-to-myheritage-and-gedmatch-classic/

Anyway, your genetic distances with an updated spreadsheet:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

Elske,46.45,24.52,9.14,5.87,6.05,4.91,0,0,0.69,0.5 2,1.01,0.84,0,0,0

Distance to: Elske
7.58003958 West_Norwegian
8.68229232 Dutch_North
8.79435046 Orcadian
9.76339080 Danish

Eurogenes K13

Elske,54.88,22.89,9.25,7.72,1.32,0,1.03,0.91,0.92, 0.93,0.15,0,0

Distance to: Elske
3.87086554 Irish_Connacht
4.02792751 Irish_Munster
4.15767964 Irish_Ulster
4.33099296 Irish
4.36957664 West_Scottish
4.67687930 Scottish
4.99629863 Irish_Leinster
6.03485708 Orcadian
6.60019697 Welsh
6.72658160 English_North
7.26309163 Norwegian
7.45691625 English
7.55056951 Dutch_North
7.72792987 English_Southwest
7.74711559 Dutch_Central
7.88141485 Denmark
7.88625386 English_Midlands
7.99419790 Norway_South_Central
8.10362265 English_Southeast
8.36607435 Dutch
8.43163092 Sweden_Götaland
9.61300681 North_German
9.77856329 France_north-west

Elske
01-22-2021, 07:26 AM
Interesting

What gives the global statistics ?
For me for example :

Pays
Nombre de correspondances
Etats-Unis d'Amérique
432
France
139
Allemagne
129
Grande-Bretagne
73
Pays-Bas
33
Suède
31
Australie
28
Danemark
22
Canada
20
Autriche
18
Finlande
16
Belgique
14
Irlande
13
Norvège
13
Pologne
12
Espagne
10
République Tchèque
9
Russie
7
Hongrie
7
Nouvelle-Zélande
7
Suisse
6
Ukraine
5
Grèce
2
Slovénie
2
Emirats Arabes Unis
2
Luxembourg
2
Islande
2
Italie
1
Bosnie-Herzégovine
1
Equateur
1
Groenland
1
Japon
1
Brésil
1
Macédoine du Nord
1
Iles Féroé
1
Bulgarie
1
Lettonie
1

Goodmorning!

My list looks like this:
USA 1.871
The Netherlands 1.465
Great Britain 421
Germany 420
Denmark 224
France 182
Sweden 165
Australia 127
Norway 112
Canada 108
New-Zealand 63
Switzerland 50
Belgium 44
Finland 25
Ireland 21
Austria 19

Etc etc...

Elske
01-22-2021, 07:33 AM
This kind of inconsistency could be dictated by the lower quality of the new chips from the various DNA testing companies. I suggest instead to follow this guide to convert your raw data to 23andMe V3 format to get a much higher coverage in the calculators (the maximum SNPs you currently reach in the admixture runs on GEDmatch is only 78505 compared to over 180000 of 23andMe V3).

https://dnagenics.com/convert-23andme-to-myheritage-and-gedmatch-classic/

Anyway, your genetic distances with an updated spreadsheet:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

Elske,46.45,24.52,9.14,5.87,6.05,4.91,0,0,0.69,0.5 2,1.01,0.84,0,0,0

Distance to: Elske
7.58003958 West_Norwegian
8.68229232 Dutch_North
8.79435046 Orcadian
9.76339080 Danish

Eurogenes K13

Elske,54.88,22.89,9.25,7.72,1.32,0,1.03,0.91,0.92, 0.93,0.15,0,0

Distance to: Elske
3.87086554 Irish_Connacht
4.02792751 Irish_Munster
4.15767964 Irish_Ulster
4.33099296 Irish
4.36957664 West_Scottish
4.67687930 Scottish
4.99629863 Irish_Leinster
6.03485708 Orcadian
6.60019697 Welsh
6.72658160 English_North
7.26309163 Norwegian
7.45691625 English
7.55056951 Dutch_North
7.72792987 English_Southwest
7.74711559 Dutch_Central
7.88141485 Denmark
7.88625386 English_Midlands
7.99419790 Norway_South_Central
8.10362265 English_Southeast
8.36607435 Dutch
8.43163092 Sweden_Götaland
9.61300681 North_German
9.77856329 France_north-west

Thanks for your spreadsheet and your suggestion! You people are so nice on this forum! I think that I'll do the 23andme test instead. Then I'll have my mtDNA and I can upload the raw data from the 23andme-test to GEDmatch.

xerxez
01-22-2021, 09:07 AM
Goodmorning!

My list looks like this:
USA 1.871
The Netherlands 1.465
Great Britain 421
Germany 420
Denmark 224
France 182
Sweden 165
Australia 127
Norway 112
Canada 108
New-Zealand 63
Switzerland 50
Belgium 44
Finland 25
Ireland 21
Austria 19

Etc etc...

You have an impressing number of relatives in your own country, it's very great ! Lots of dutch have been tested. That's not the case of French (very lower number of relatives).

Here is a comparative breakdown of your relatives for each of the 16 countries with mine and those of my half-sister and my mother (100% from the North of France) : https://i.imgur.com/pAyXkg2.png

In general, you have more relatives than us, especially me (how can you have more Frenchies than me ? aha).

I think that the comparison is more interesting with ratio of each country on your relatives more than volumes. The table is classified on the ratio of relative shares by country concerning you / relative share by country for my mother.

Concretely, 27.6% of your relatives are Dutch, against 4.9% for my mother, or 5.6 times more in proportion.

Unsurprisingly, compared to my mother who is from the north of France, the most extreme countries on this ratio for each of you are your countries of origin: the Netherlands for you, France is the more reprensative for my mother.

What is interesting is the countries in between. The two most typical countries of your relative to my mother after the Netherlands are Denmark (2.8) and Germany (1.8). Then come the other Scandinavian countries Norway, Sweden, then the British Isles and the New World. Ireland is after Great Britain. Austria, Switzerland, Belgium and Finland are a little more typical of my mother (be careful, the volumes are low).

Considering the countries of your relatives, it's really accurate with Frisian genetics studies : Denmark and in a lower way Germany proximities. I would really be interested to see the comparison with a southern dutch. I really wish to see what G25 says.

Even if the volumes are low, interested by the total list of countries of your relatives ;)

Elske
01-22-2021, 07:17 PM
You have an impressing number of relatives in your own country, it's very great ! Lots of dutch have been tested. That's not the case of French (very lower number of relatives).

Here is a comparative breakdown of your relatives for each of the 16 countries with mine and those of my half-sister and my mother (100% from the North of France) : https://i.imgur.com/pAyXkg2.png

In general, you have more relatives than us, especially me (how can you have more Frenchies than me ? aha).

I think that the comparison is more interesting with ratio of each country on your relatives more than volumes. The table is classified on the ratio of relative shares by country concerning you / relative share by country for my mother.

Concretely, 27.6% of your relatives are Dutch, against 4.9% for my mother, or 5.6 times more in proportion.

Unsurprisingly, compared to my mother who is from the north of France, the most extreme countries on this ratio for each of you are your countries of origin: the Netherlands for you, France is the more reprensative for my mother.

What is interesting is the countries in between. The two most typical countries of your relative to my mother after the Netherlands are Denmark (2.8) and Germany (1.8). Then come the other Scandinavian countries Norway, Sweden, then the British Isles and the New World. Ireland is after Great Britain. Austria, Switzerland, Belgium and Finland are a little more typical of my mother (be careful, the volumes are low).

Considering the countries of your relatives, it's really accurate with Frisian genetics studies : Denmark and in a lower way Germany proximities. I would really be interested to see the comparison with a southern dutch. I really wish to see what G25 says.

Even if the volumes are low, interested by the total list of countries of your relatives ;)

Here is the rest of my list:

Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Do you have any advices for me regarding G25? What do you use?

xerxez
01-22-2021, 07:41 PM
Here is the rest of my list:

Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Do you have any advices for me regarding G25? What do you use?

When Davidski will give you your G25 coordinates, it will be interesting for you to :

- share it on this forum and I'm sure some people here will help you to analyze this

- use the wonderful vahuaduo Tools : http://*************************/. There are lots of threads on Vahuado Tools here on Anthrogenica

- use Past (https://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/PAST.shtml), a wonderful free statistics tools which is very simple to use to make PCA's, Hierarchical Cluster Analysis or Kmeans typology

xerxez
01-22-2021, 09:12 PM
Here is the rest of my list:

Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Do you have any advices for me regarding G25? What do you use?

Without any surprise, in your other relatives, South Africa is also overrepresented

What are the ethnic origins of your relatives ? You can get these statistics on the global view, after the statistics by countries.

Elske
01-23-2021, 11:37 AM
Without any surprise, in your other relatives, South Africa is also overrepresented

What are the ethnic origins of your relatives ? You can get these statistics on the global view, after the statistics by countries.

Ethnic origins:
Scandinavisch
48%
3.944

Engels
37,6%
3.608

Noord- en West-Europees
10,2%
3.627

Fins
4,2%
127

Iers, Schots en Welsh
0%
2.242

Oost-Europees
0%
870

Iberisch
0%
550

Balkan
0%
482

Italiaans
0%
374

Baltisch
0%
229

Grieks en Zuid Italiaans
0%
176

Asjkenazisch Joods
0%
99

Meso-Amerikaans en Andes
0%
77

Nigeriaans
0%
71

Filipijns, Indonesisch en Maleis
0%
48

West-Aziatisch
0%
38

Sardijns
0%
37

Sierra Leoons
0%
23

Noord-Afrikaans
0%
19

Thais en Cambodjaans
0%
15

Chinees en Vietnamees
0%
15

Keniaans
0%
12

West-Afrikaans
0%
11

Sefardisch Joods – Noord-Afrikaans
0%
11

Zuid-Aziatisch
0%
10

Japans en Koreaans
0%
7

Midden-Oosters
0%
5

Centraal-Aziatisch
0%
4

Polynesisch
0%
4

Mongools
0%
4

Papoea-Nieuw-Guinees
0%
3

Inuit
0%
3

Mizrachi Joods – Iraans/Irakees
0%
2

Ethiopisch-Joods
0%
1

Somalisch
0%
1

xerxez
01-23-2021, 12:58 PM
Ethnic origins:
Scandinavisch
48%
3.944

Engels
37,6%
3.608

Noord- en West-Europees
10,2%
3.627

Fins
4,2%
127

Iers, Schots en Welsh
0%
2.242

Oost-Europees
0%
870

Iberisch
0%
550

Balkan
0%
482

Italiaans
0%
374

Baltisch
0%
229

Grieks en Zuid Italiaans
0%
176

Asjkenazisch Joods
0%
99

Meso-Amerikaans en Andes
0%
77

Nigeriaans
0%
71

Filipijns, Indonesisch en Maleis
0%
48

West-Aziatisch
0%
38

Sardijns
0%
37

Sierra Leoons
0%
23

Noord-Afrikaans
0%
19

Thais en Cambodjaans
0%
15

Chinees en Vietnamees
0%
15

Keniaans
0%
12

West-Afrikaans
0%
11

Sefardisch Joods – Noord-Afrikaans
0%
11

Zuid-Aziatisch
0%
10

Japans en Koreaans
0%
7

Midden-Oosters
0%
5

Centraal-Aziatisch
0%
4

Polynesisch
0%
4

Mongools
0%
4

Papoea-Nieuw-Guinees
0%
3

Inuit
0%
3

Mizrachi Joods – Iraans/Irakees
0%
2

Ethiopisch-Joods
0%
1

Somalisch
0%
1

The most important ethnic component present in your relatives is Scandinavian one (72,7% have this component present in their ethnic origins), followed by ouest and north european (66,9%) and English (66,5%).

Compared to me and my family who are french or mixed french/polish/germans, these 3 components are the most overrepresented for your relatives, see the table : https://imgur.com/gls0qes

The "celtic" component (british, irish, ...) is not overrepresented into your relatives

Complementary, a little PCA is also illustrative : https://imgur.com/Nnzge0h

Elske
01-23-2021, 06:17 PM
The most important ethnic component present in your relatives is Scandinavian one (72,7% have this component present in their ethnic origins), followed by ouest and north european (66,9%) and English (66,5%).

Compared to me and my family who are french or mixed french/polish/germans, these 3 components are the most overrepresented for your relatives, see the table : https://imgur.com/gls0qes

The "celtic" component (british, irish, ...) is not overrepresented into your relatives

Complementary, a little PCA is also illustrative : https://imgur.com/Nnzge0h


Thanx! :)

I checked the vadahuo site. It looks interesting! Now I just have to wait for my coordinates. When I have them, I'll let you know!

Finn
01-23-2021, 09:37 PM
Eslke welcome,

As Pijlsteen already said these are 'usual' North Dutch results.

This is for example my K13:
https://i.postimg.cc/wjVWzpYX/Schermafbeelding-2021-01-23-om-22-34-16.png (https://postimg.cc/dhhRRg13)

Elske
01-23-2021, 10:36 PM
Eslke welcome,

As Pijlsteen already said these are 'usual' North Dutch results.

This is for example my K13:
https://i.postimg.cc/wjVWzpYX/Schermafbeelding-2021-01-23-om-22-34-16.png (https://postimg.cc/dhhRRg13)

Hi Finn!

Thanks for your reply. Now that I've been reading on this forum, I know these results are pretty normal. There's so much overlap and I didn't realise that. I was a bit flabbergasted when I got the results from MyHeritage. Are you using G25? If so, are you getting different results?

xerxez
01-24-2021, 10:14 AM
Hi Finn!

Thanks for your reply. Now that I've been reading on this forum, I know these results are pretty normal. There's so much overlap and I didn't realise that. I was a bit flabbergasted when I got the results from MyHeritage. Are you using G25? If so, are you getting different results?

Yeah, it would be interesting to have a sample of north dutch on g25. The sample furnished by Davidski is Dutch, without more precisions on the region in Netherlands.

Elske
01-24-2021, 10:35 AM
Yeah, it would be interesting to have a sample of north dutch on g25. The sample furnished by Davidski is Dutch, without more precisions on the region in Netherlands.

Oh okay. In his other caluculators there's a difference between North- and South Dutch. I'm very curious about my G25 results.

Ajeje Brazorf
01-24-2021, 01:06 PM
If you convert your raw data to the 23andMe V3 format you may find substantial differences in your GEDmatch results. This seemed to be the case for many people who did this.

Razr795
01-24-2021, 01:59 PM
You may wish to consider FTDNA for your father. They dig deeper into the y-haplogroups.

Finn
01-24-2021, 06:17 PM
Hi Finn!

Thanks for your reply. Now that I've been reading on this forum, I know these results are pretty normal. There's so much overlap and I didn't realise that. I was a bit flabbergasted when I got the results from MyHeritage. Are you using G25? If so, are you getting different results?

In G25 I get mostly a Swedish kind of result.

xerxez
01-24-2021, 06:24 PM
In G25 I get mostly a Swedish kind of result.

Interesting, would you share your g25 coordinates here ? Do you have other north dutch g25 coordinates ?

Finn
01-24-2021, 07:52 PM
Interesting, would you share your g25 coordinates here ? Do you have other north dutch g25 coordinates ?

Of course, scaled:
Finn,0.134311267881738,0.142174118601101,0.0648647 552990066,0.0607242910209745,0.0424694859870001,0. 023147924744996,0.00681530850365557,0.008999624992 18717,0.00777190581517815,-0.00309801387989144,-0.00617076008284231,0.00569493107947761,-0.0114468729354353,-0.0013762267255071,0.0196794435896953,0.0068946588 0229036,0.0,0.00658780691884636,0.0049022239850908 5,0.00562769935231085,0.0059894306908086,0.0051934 1506140227,-0.00308119295079033,0.014098378630183,-0.00191599582463011
FinnDad,0.132035,0.139128,0.060339,0.053295,0.0424 69,0.019522,0.010575,0.011999,0.002045,0.000911,-0.008607,0.006744,-0.014123,-0.004266,0.015472,0.004243,-0.00678,0.006081,0.006159,0.004252,0.00574,0.00371 ,-0.002711,0.014219,-0.002275
FinnMom,0.137726,0.139128,0.064865,0.056848,0.0433 93,0.021475,0.001175,0.008538,0.011044,0.002005,-0.002923,0.004046,-0.004906,-0.001101,0.020087,0.011933,-0.001565,0.006588,0.002765,0.003126,0.00574,0.0059 35,-0.005053,0.011086,-0.000599

xerxez
01-24-2021, 07:54 PM
Of course, scaled:
Finn,0.134311267881738,0.142174118601101,0.0648647 552990066,0.0607242910209745,0.0424694859870001,0. 023147924744996,0.00681530850365557,0.008999624992 18717,0.00777190581517815,-0.00309801387989144,-0.00617076008284231,0.00569493107947761,-0.0114468729354353,-0.0013762267255071,0.0196794435896953,0.0068946588 0229036,0.0,0.00658780691884636,0.0049022239850908 5,0.00562769935231085,0.0059894306908086,0.0051934 1506140227,-0.00308119295079033,0.014098378630183,-0.00191599582463011
FinnDad,0.132035,0.139128,0.060339,0.053295,0.0424 69,0.019522,0.010575,0.011999,0.002045,0.000911,-0.008607,0.006744,-0.014123,-0.004266,0.015472,0.004243,-0.00678,0.006081,0.006159,0.004252,0.00574,0.00371 ,-0.002711,0.014219,-0.002275
FinnMom,0.137726,0.139128,0.064865,0.056848,0.0433 93,0.021475,0.001175,0.008538,0.011044,0.002005,-0.002923,0.004046,-0.004906,-0.001101,0.020087,0.011933,-0.001565,0.006588,0.002765,0.003126,0.00574,0.0059 35,-0.005053,0.011086,-0.000599

Thanks a lot ! All your known ancestors were from Northern Netherlands ?

xerxez
01-24-2021, 08:07 PM
Of course, scaled:
Finn,0.134311267881738,0.142174118601101,0.0648647 552990066,0.0607242910209745,0.0424694859870001,0. 023147924744996,0.00681530850365557,0.008999624992 18717,0.00777190581517815,-0.00309801387989144,-0.00617076008284231,0.00569493107947761,-0.0114468729354353,-0.0013762267255071,0.0196794435896953,0.0068946588 0229036,0.0,0.00658780691884636,0.0049022239850908 5,0.00562769935231085,0.0059894306908086,0.0051934 1506140227,-0.00308119295079033,0.014098378630183,-0.00191599582463011
FinnDad,0.132035,0.139128,0.060339,0.053295,0.0424 69,0.019522,0.010575,0.011999,0.002045,0.000911,-0.008607,0.006744,-0.014123,-0.004266,0.015472,0.004243,-0.00678,0.006081,0.006159,0.004252,0.00574,0.00371 ,-0.002711,0.014219,-0.002275
FinnMom,0.137726,0.139128,0.064865,0.056848,0.0433 93,0.021475,0.001175,0.008538,0.011044,0.002005,-0.002923,0.004046,-0.004906,-0.001101,0.020087,0.011933,-0.001565,0.006588,0.002765,0.003126,0.00574,0.0059 35,-0.005053,0.011086,-0.000599

You and your parents (red dots) on G25 PCA : https://imgur.com/bvtkG3V

Indeed very close to scandinavian.

On Vahaduo, Danish are the closest group for both of your family :
Distance to: Finn
0.01816289 Danish
0.02150866 Icelandic
0.02253556 Swedish
0.02486450 Norwegian
0.02601398 Dutch
0.02636507 English
0.02638797 Orcadian
0.02656486 Scottish
0.02680023 Welsh
0.02769104 Irish
0.02811302 Shetlandic
0.02847889 English_Cornwall
0.03168388 German
0.03328738 French_Brittany
0.03689929 German_East
0.03873207 Afrikaner
0.04104029 Czech
0.04425250 Belgian
0.04532301 Austrian
0.04569097 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04577286 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04739275 French_Nord
0.04997627 French_Alsace
0.05006322 French_Paris
0.05058373 Hungarian

Distance to: FinnDad
0.01516916 Danish
0.01726704 Dutch
0.01808711 English
0.01954581 Scottish
0.01963098 Welsh
0.02014322 English_Cornwall
0.02047578 Orcadian
0.02060580 Icelandic
0.02212728 Irish
0.02328750 Shetlandic
0.02339186 Swedish
0.02450106 German
0.02473374 Norwegian
0.02564631 French_Brittany
0.03028941 Afrikaner
0.03312406 German_East
0.03481989 Belgian
0.03802218 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03829989 Austrian
0.03859592 French_Nord
0.03869770 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04020081 Czech
0.04075138 French_Alsace
0.04149116 French_Paris
0.04334578 Swiss_German

Distance to: FinnMom
0.02045044 Danish
0.02157118 Icelandic
0.02304698 Norwegian
0.02352380 Swedish
0.02499060 Welsh
0.02539392 English
0.02540180 Orcadian
0.02607665 Scottish
0.02644645 Dutch
0.02764412 English_Cornwall
0.02776021 Irish
0.02925107 German
0.02950089 Shetlandic
0.03071308 French_Brittany
0.03677141 German_East
0.03759707 Afrikaner
0.03938699 Czech
0.04134780 Belgian
0.04166694 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04186753 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04254301 Austrian
0.04363904 French_Nord
0.04629258 French_Paris
0.04630690 French_Alsace
0.04821435 Hungarian

Finn
01-24-2021, 08:50 PM
You and your parents (red dots) on G25 PCA : https://imgur.com/bvtkG3V

Indeed very close to scandinavian.

On Vahaduo, Danish are the closest group for both of your family :
Distance to: Finn
0.01816289 Danish
0.02150866 Icelandic
0.02253556 Swedish
0.02486450 Norwegian
0.02601398 Dutch
0.02636507 English
0.02638797 Orcadian
0.02656486 Scottish
0.02680023 Welsh
0.02769104 Irish
0.02811302 Shetlandic
0.02847889 English_Cornwall
0.03168388 German
0.03328738 French_Brittany
0.03689929 German_East
0.03873207 Afrikaner
0.04104029 Czech
0.04425250 Belgian
0.04532301 Austrian
0.04569097 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04577286 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04739275 French_Nord
0.04997627 French_Alsace
0.05006322 French_Paris
0.05058373 Hungarian

Distance to: FinnDad
0.01516916 Danish
0.01726704 Dutch
0.01808711 English
0.01954581 Scottish
0.01963098 Welsh
0.02014322 English_Cornwall
0.02047578 Orcadian
0.02060580 Icelandic
0.02212728 Irish
0.02328750 Shetlandic
0.02339186 Swedish
0.02450106 German
0.02473374 Norwegian
0.02564631 French_Brittany
0.03028941 Afrikaner
0.03312406 German_East
0.03481989 Belgian
0.03802218 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03829989 Austrian
0.03859592 French_Nord
0.03869770 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04020081 Czech
0.04075138 French_Alsace
0.04149116 French_Paris
0.04334578 Swiss_German

Distance to: FinnMom
0.02045044 Danish
0.02157118 Icelandic
0.02304698 Norwegian
0.02352380 Swedish
0.02499060 Welsh
0.02539392 English
0.02540180 Orcadian
0.02607665 Scottish
0.02644645 Dutch
0.02764412 English_Cornwall
0.02776021 Irish
0.02925107 German
0.02950089 Shetlandic
0.03071308 French_Brittany
0.03677141 German_East
0.03759707 Afrikaner
0.03938699 Czech
0.04134780 Belgian
0.04166694 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04186753 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04254301 Austrian
0.04363904 French_Nord
0.04629258 French_Paris
0.04630690 French_Alsace
0.04821435 Hungarian

Thanks indeed, I guess Davidski recently added some Danish samples.....This result doesn't surprise me.

Finn
01-24-2021, 08:51 PM
Thanks a lot ! All your known ancestors were from Northern Netherlands ?

Yes, the paper trail is fully North Dutch (father Groningen and Mother Drenthe as subregions).

xerxez
01-24-2021, 09:04 PM
Of course, scaled:
Finn,0.134311267881738,0.142174118601101,0.0648647 552990066,0.0607242910209745,0.0424694859870001,0. 023147924744996,0.00681530850365557,0.008999624992 18717,0.00777190581517815,-0.00309801387989144,-0.00617076008284231,0.00569493107947761,-0.0114468729354353,-0.0013762267255071,0.0196794435896953,0.0068946588 0229036,0.0,0.00658780691884636,0.0049022239850908 5,0.00562769935231085,0.0059894306908086,0.0051934 1506140227,-0.00308119295079033,0.014098378630183,-0.00191599582463011
FinnDad,0.132035,0.139128,0.060339,0.053295,0.0424 69,0.019522,0.010575,0.011999,0.002045,0.000911,-0.008607,0.006744,-0.014123,-0.004266,0.015472,0.004243,-0.00678,0.006081,0.006159,0.004252,0.00574,0.00371 ,-0.002711,0.014219,-0.002275
FinnMom,0.137726,0.139128,0.064865,0.056848,0.0433 93,0.021475,0.001175,0.008538,0.011044,0.002005,-0.002923,0.004046,-0.004906,-0.001101,0.020087,0.011933,-0.001565,0.006588,0.002765,0.003126,0.00574,0.0059 35,-0.005053,0.011086,-0.000599



Below is the list of the 100 closest individuals on G25 coordinates scaled on Vahaduo. The first figure is the number of individuals, the% expressed is the share of individuals out of the total available sample. For example, you have 28 danish in the top 100 closest individuals. These 28 individuals represent 63% of the 44 danish individuals available on G25/Vahaduo.

The predominance of the Danes is confirmed with an approach based on individual samples, as well as other scandivian but also Scottish/Welsh/Orcadian samples. Only a few Dutch are close to you and your family.

Finn
Danish : 28 (63%)
Swedish : 10 (47%)
Scottish : 10 (35%)
Welsh : 9 (45%)
Irish : 7 (8%)
Icelandic : 7 (58%)
German : 6 (7%)
Orcadian : 6 (60%)
English_Cornwall : 5 (38%)
English : 4 (21%)
French_Brittany : 3 (7%)
Dutch : 3 (4%)
Norwegian : 2 (28%)

Finn_dad
Danish : 20 (45%)
Scottish : 12 (42%)
Welsh : 12 (60%)
English_Cornwall : 8 (61%)
Irish : 8 (9%)
Swedish : 7 (33%)
English : 7 (36%)
Orcadian : 6 (60%)
Icelandic : 6 (50%)
German : 4 (5%)
French_Brittany : 4 (10%)
Dutch : 4 (6%)
Norwegian : 1 (14%)
Shetlandic : 1 (33%)

Fin_mom
Danish : 24 (54%)
Welsh : 10 (50%)
Swedish : 10 (47%)
Irish : 10 (11%)
Scottish : 8 (28%)
Orcadian : 7 (70%)
Icelandic : 7 (58%)
English : 6 (31%)
English_Cornwall : 6 (46%)
French_Brittany : 4 (10%)
Norwegian : 3 (42%)
German : 3 (3%)
Dutch : 2 (3%)

Finn
01-24-2021, 09:52 PM
Below is the list of the 100 closest individuals on G25 coordinates scaled on Vahaduo. The first figure is the number of individuals, the% expressed is the share of individuals out of the total available sample. For example, you have 28 danish in the top 100 closest individuals. These 28 individuals represent 63% of the 44 danish individuals available on G25/Vahaduo.

The predominance of the Danes is confirmed with an approach based on individual samples, as well as other scandivian but also Scottish/Welsh/Orcadian samples. Only a few Dutch are close to you and your family.

Finn
Danish : 28 (63%)
Swedish : 10 (47%)
Scottish : 10 (35%)
Welsh : 9 (45%)
Irish : 7 (8%)
Icelandic : 7 (58%)
German : 6 (7%)
Orcadian : 6 (60%)
English_Cornwall : 5 (38%)
English : 4 (21%)
French_Brittany : 3 (7%)
Dutch : 3 (4%)
Norwegian : 2 (28%)

Finn_dad
Danish : 20 (45%)
Scottish : 12 (42%)
Welsh : 12 (60%)
English_Cornwall : 8 (61%)
Irish : 8 (9%)
Swedish : 7 (33%)
English : 7 (36%)
Orcadian : 6 (60%)
Icelandic : 6 (50%)
German : 4 (5%)
French_Brittany : 4 (10%)
Dutch : 4 (6%)
Norwegian : 1 (14%)
Shetlandic : 1 (33%)

Fin_mom
Danish : 24 (54%)
Welsh : 10 (50%)
Swedish : 10 (47%)
Irish : 10 (11%)
Scottish : 8 (28%)
Orcadian : 7 (70%)
Icelandic : 7 (58%)
English : 6 (31%)
English_Cornwall : 6 (46%)
French_Brittany : 4 (10%)
Norwegian : 3 (42%)
German : 3 (3%)
Dutch : 2 (3%)

Thanks for the action! I guess this is due to 'the fact' that there are not much samples in G25 from the outmost Northern Netherlands (Groningen, Friesland, Drenthe). The outmost North is close to the old "Anglo-Saxons", anywhere between the Scandics and the Isles. I'm convinced that Elkse get's the same kinds of results.

Elske
02-02-2021, 11:37 AM
When Davidski will give you your G25 coordinates, it will be interesting for you to :

- share it on this forum and I'm sure some people here will help you to analyze this

- use the wonderful vahuaduo Tools : http://*************************/. There are lots of threads on Vahuado Tools here on Anthrogenica

- use Past (https://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/PAST.shtml), a wonderful free statistics tools which is very simple to use to make PCA's, Hierarchical Cluster Analysis or Kmeans typology

Hey Xerxez!

I received my coordinates this morning. Can you help me? I don't know how to begin... :D

Finn
02-02-2021, 04:01 PM
Hey Xerxez!

I received my coordinates this morning. Can you help me? I don't know how to begin... :D

No problem, geen probleem, you can give the coordinatates here, or pm me or xexex.

Or via this thread (in Dutch):
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22512-De-Nederlandse-Praatbank

Elske
02-02-2021, 05:43 PM
No problem, geen probleem, you can give the coordinatates here, or pm me or xexex.

Or via this thread (in Dutch):
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22512-De-Nederlandse-Praatbank

Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004

xerxez
02-03-2021, 08:12 PM
Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004

Here is a PCA on your G25 coordinates : https://imgur.com/8JQFitq

Your position between Northern British Islands and Norwegian is consistent with your Eurogenes K13 and K15 results

xerxez
02-03-2021, 08:21 PM
Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004



Interestingly, your distance with the closest people is higher than closest people for Finn :
Distance to: Elske_scaled
0.02601913 Norwegian
0.02857167 Irish
0.02952400 Dutch
0.02978586 Danish
0.03012991 Shetlandic
0.03045890 Scottish
0.03135348 Icelandic
0.03139393 English
0.03218004 Welsh
0.03273522 Orcadian
0.03432729 Swedish
0.03468523 English_Cornwall
0.03497939 French_Brittany
0.03946775 German
0.04103909 Afrikaner
0.04383285 Belgian
0.04443650 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04881676 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04921976 French_Nord
0.04955032 French_Paris
0.05114260 Austrian
0.05200312 French_Alsace
0.05358046 German_East
0.05384956 Swiss_German
0.05519136 Czech

xerxez
02-03-2021, 08:32 PM
Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004

Your 100 closest individuals (and the percentage of these individuals in the total sample of their people). Here again, no very strong tendency as for Finn where the Danes dominated
Irish 24 (27%)
Danish 15 (34%)
Scottish 11 (38%)
English 8 (42%)
Welsh 8 (40%)
Swedish 7 (33%)
English_Cornwall 6 (46%)
French_Britanny 5 (12%)
Orcadian 5 (50%)
Dutch 4 (6%)
Icelandic 3 (25%)
Norwegian 3 (43%)
Shetlandic 1 (33%)

If I add Finn and his Family, Finn's Dad is your 33th closest individual, Finn is your 70th closest individual, and Finn's Mother is your 118th closest individual. 2/3 of this small sample of North Dutch is in your top 100 ;)

xerxez
02-03-2021, 08:44 PM
Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004

A hierarchical clustering analysis, your Nordic position in the broad sense is confirmed, you do not relate more specifically to a particular people

https://imgur.com/2MeNKH4

Finn
02-03-2021, 09:07 PM
Here is a PCA on your G25 coordinates : https://imgur.com/8JQFitq

Your position between Northern British Islands and Norwegian is consistent with your Eurogenes K13 and K15 results

Thanks for your analysis.

I think you see the position of the ‘outmost’ Northern Dutch (=Friesland, Groningen and Drenthe) to be placed in NNW Europe, Elske in the most western spot and the Finn”s motte northeastern in the NNW European spot, in fact a kind of ‘North Sea Germanic’ if you want to give it a name....

xerxez
02-03-2021, 09:24 PM
Fijn dat jullie me even willen helpen. Ik heb de coördinaten in de Nederlandse praatbank gezet.

For Xerxez! Here are my G25 coordinates:

Elske_scaled,0.135449,0.12491,0.065619,0.049096,0. 041546,0.024821,0.00705,0.005077,-0.00225,0.002369,-0.00747,0.004046,-0.020664,-0.014038,0.021308,0.014054,0.005998,0.002154,0.004 902,0.002751,0.011105,-0.001237,-0.001232,0.023497,-0.00479

Elske,0.0119,0.0123,0.0174,0.0152,0.0135,0.0089,0. 003,0.0022,-0.0011,0.0013,-0.0046,0.0027,-0.0139,-0.0102,0.0157,0.0106,0.0046,0.0017,0.0039,0.0022,0 .0089,-0.001,-0.001,0.0195,-0.004

A PCA on G25 individuals coordinates : https://imgur.com/8DPhqaK, with a focus it's more readable : https://imgur.com/Fi2WFI2

You and Finn are the red crosses. This PCA shows very well the overlapping between northwestern Europeans
Afrikaners are in yellow
Belgians are in blue
Danish are in pink
Dutch are in green
English and welsh are in brown
Germans are in grey
Irish are in light blue
Norwegians are in light green
Swedishs are in peachpuff

Elske
02-07-2021, 11:49 AM
A PCA on G25 individuals coordinates : https://imgur.com/8DPhqaK, with a focus it's more readable : https://imgur.com/Fi2WFI2

You and Finn are the red crosses. This PCA shows very well the overlapping between northwestern Europeans
Afrikaners are in yellow
Belgians are in blue
Danish are in pink
Dutch are in green
English and welsh are in brown
Germans are in grey
Irish are in light blue
Norwegians are in light green
Swedishs are in peachpuff

Thanks for the pca! They indeed look VERY close haha!

I have some news regarding my DNA.I've uploaded my raw dna to mytrueancestry. They compare your dna with samples retrieved from archaelogical digs. Genetic distance measures how close you are to a given sample:
10 means this is your ancient ancestry
20 means this is part of your ancestral link
30 means possibly related to your ancestry

Here are my 40 closest matches.
1. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.503
Top 99 % match vs all users


2. Medieval Denmark Revshale
1315 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.956
Top 99 % match vs all users


3. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.984
Top 99 % match vs all users


4. Bronze Age Netherlands
1775 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.534
Top 99 % match vs all users


5. Medieval Danish Denmark
1250 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.219
Top 99 % match vs all users


6. Norwegian Viking Iceland
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.297
Top 99 % match vs all users


7. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.478
Top 98 % match vs all users


8. Viking Age Gotland Kopparsvik Sweden
975 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.868
Top 99 % match vs all users


9. Viking Age Staraya Ladoga
1000 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.909
Top 99 % match vs all users


10. Norwegian Viking Iceland
1000 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.912
Top 95 % match vs all users


11. Saxon Oakington
495 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.095
Top 99 % match vs all users


12. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford
1002 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.136
Top 99 % match vs all users


13. Bronze Age Wick Barrow Somerset England
2200 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.152
Top 99 % match vs all users


14. Nordic Lombard Horseman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.235
Top 99 % match vs all users


15. Bronze Age Jutland Denmark
2100 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.277
Top 99 % match vs all users


16. Merovingian Noble
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.293
Top 99 % match vs all users


17. Viking Era Nordland Norway
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.33
Top 99 % match vs all users


18. Viking Age Oland Sweden
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.352
Top 99 % match vs all users


19. Medieval Norway Sankt Nikolai B
1448 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.396
Top 91 % match vs all users


20. Late Iron Age Tollemosegard Denmark
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.651
Top 92 % match vs all users


21. Norwegian Medieval Denmark
1270 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.714
Top 99 % match vs all users


22. Bell Beaker De Tuithoorn North Holland
2080 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.719
Top 99 % match vs all users


23. Copper Age Lovosice II Czech
2200 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.754
Top 99 % match vs all users


24. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford
1002 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.764
Top 99 % match vs all users


25. Medieval Denmark Odense
1223 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.776
Top 91 % match vs all users


26. Celto-Germanic Lingolsheim Alsace
2335 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.866
Top 92 % match vs all users


27. Medieval Trondheim Norway
1200 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.965
Top 99 % match vs all users


28. Anglo Saxon
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.975
Top 99 % match vs all users

29. Scythian Moldova
290 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.978
Top 99 % match vs all users


30. Copper Age Sierentz Les Villas dAurele France
2373 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.01
Top 96 % match vs all users


31. Iron Age Oland Sweden
386 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.101
Top 99 % match vs all users


32. Viking Norse Iceland
935 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.124
Top 99 % match vs all users


33. Celtic Mix Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.212 ?
Top 90 % match vs all users


34. Bronze Age Oxfordshire England
2030 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.22
Top 92 % match vs all users


35. Viking Age Galgedil Funen Denmark
925 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.254
Top 99 % match vs all users


36. Anglo Saxon Northumbria
780 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.319
Top 99 % match vs all users


37. Copper Age Beaker Brandysek Czech
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.334
Top 84 % match vs all users


38. Viking Age Hedmark Norway
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.351
Top 99 % match vs all users


39. Alemanni Tribe Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.371
Top 98 % match vs all users


40. Viking Invader Ridgeway Hill England
998 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.385
Top 99 % match vs all users

My deep dive breakdown. Explanation: You share DNA segments with your Deep Dive matches. This chart represents a union of all your deep dive matches weighted per total SNPs you share and their own individual classification. The displayed result is your personalized Deep Dive breakdown

Norwegian Vikings: 65.9%
Swedish Vikings: 16.2%
Longobards: 10.6%
Alemanni: 5.14%
Celts: 0.72%
Saxons: 0.69%
Balari: 0.3%
Illyrians: 0.25%

I think it's funny, because one of these Nordic Longobards is also among my closest ancient individual matches on G25 as Hun_Ma_Szolad. The Longobards (Winnili) were a pre-Viking era Scandinavian tribe who migrated south. They also predicted my Y-DNA (based on my deep dive matches) and the top 3: R1b, R1a and Il. mtDNA top 3: H1 + H3, H and U5. I don't know what my haplogroups are. I'll order 2 23andme tests (for my father and me) and then I'll find out if their prediction is right! :)

This is so much fun!

Generalissimo
02-07-2021, 12:01 PM
Thanks for the pca! They indeed look VERY close haha!

I have some news regarding my DNA.I've uploaded my raw dna to mytrueancestry. They compare your dna with samples retrieved from archaelogical digs. Genetic distance measures how close you are to a given sample:
10 means this is your ancient ancestry
20 means this is part of your ancestral link
30 means possibly related to your ancestry

Here are my 40 closest matches.
1. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.503
Top 99 % match vs all users


2. Medieval Denmark Revshale
1315 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.956
Top 99 % match vs all users


3. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 4.984
Top 99 % match vs all users


4. Bronze Age Netherlands
1775 BC - Genetic Distance: 5.534
Top 99 % match vs all users


5. Medieval Danish Denmark
1250 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.219
Top 99 % match vs all users


6. Norwegian Viking Iceland
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.297
Top 99 % match vs all users


7. Nordic Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.478
Top 98 % match vs all users


8. Viking Age Gotland Kopparsvik Sweden
975 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.868
Top 99 % match vs all users


9. Viking Age Staraya Ladoga
1000 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.909
Top 99 % match vs all users


10. Norwegian Viking Iceland
1000 AD - Genetic Distance: 6.912
Top 95 % match vs all users


11. Saxon Oakington
495 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.095
Top 99 % match vs all users


12. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford
1002 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.136
Top 99 % match vs all users


13. Bronze Age Wick Barrow Somerset England
2200 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.152
Top 99 % match vs all users


14. Nordic Lombard Horseman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.235
Top 99 % match vs all users


15. Bronze Age Jutland Denmark
2100 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.277
Top 99 % match vs all users


16. Merovingian Noble
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.293
Top 99 % match vs all users


17. Viking Era Nordland Norway
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.33
Top 99 % match vs all users


18. Viking Age Oland Sweden
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.352
Top 99 % match vs all users


19. Medieval Norway Sankt Nikolai B
1448 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.396
Top 91 % match vs all users


20. Late Iron Age Tollemosegard Denmark
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.651
Top 92 % match vs all users


21. Norwegian Medieval Denmark
1270 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.714
Top 99 % match vs all users


22. Bell Beaker De Tuithoorn North Holland
2080 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.719
Top 99 % match vs all users


23. Copper Age Lovosice II Czech
2200 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.754
Top 99 % match vs all users


24. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford
1002 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.764
Top 99 % match vs all users


25. Medieval Denmark Odense
1223 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.776
Top 91 % match vs all users


26. Celto-Germanic Lingolsheim Alsace
2335 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.866
Top 92 % match vs all users


27. Medieval Trondheim Norway
1200 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.965
Top 99 % match vs all users


28. Anglo Saxon
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.975
Top 99 % match vs all users

29. Scythian Moldova
290 BC - Genetic Distance: 7.978
Top 99 % match vs all users


30. Copper Age Sierentz Les Villas dAurele France
2373 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.01
Top 96 % match vs all users


31. Iron Age Oland Sweden
386 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.101
Top 99 % match vs all users


32. Viking Norse Iceland
935 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.124
Top 99 % match vs all users


33. Celtic Mix Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.212 ?
Top 90 % match vs all users


34. Bronze Age Oxfordshire England
2030 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.22
Top 92 % match vs all users


35. Viking Age Galgedil Funen Denmark
925 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.254
Top 99 % match vs all users


36. Anglo Saxon Northumbria
780 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.319
Top 99 % match vs all users


37. Copper Age Beaker Brandysek Czech
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 8.334
Top 84 % match vs all users


38. Viking Age Hedmark Norway
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.351
Top 99 % match vs all users


39. Alemanni Tribe Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.371
Top 98 % match vs all users


40. Viking Invader Ridgeway Hill England
998 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.385
Top 99 % match vs all users

My deep dive breakdown. Explanation: You share DNA segments with your Deep Dive matches. This chart represents a union of all your deep dive matches weighted per total SNPs you share and their own individual classification. The displayed result is your personalized Deep Dive breakdown

Norwegian Vikings: 65.9%
Swedish Vikings: 16.2%
Longobards: 10.6%
Alemanni: 5.14%
Celts: 0.72%
Saxons: 0.69%
Balari: 0.3%
Illyrians: 0.25%

I think it's funny, because one of the Nordic Longobards is also among my closest ancient individual matches on G25 as Hun_Ma_Szolad. The Longobards (Winnili) were a pre-Viking era Scandinavian tribe who migrated south. They also predicted my Y-DNA (based deep dive matches) and the top 3: R1b, R1a and Il. mtDNA top 3: H1 + H3, H and U5. I don't know what my haplogroups are. I'll order 2 23andme tests (for my father and me) and then I'll find out if their prediction is right! :)

This is so much fun!

mytrueancestry is garbage.

Elske
02-07-2021, 01:11 PM
Double post.

Elske
02-07-2021, 01:26 PM
mytrueancestry is garbage.

Thanks for your reply. I've uploaded my data to them because of positive reviews. Can you explain your opinion? I'm curious!

Elske
02-07-2021, 10:42 PM
Your 100 closest individuals (and the percentage of these individuals in the total sample of their people). Here again, no very strong tendency as for Finn where the Danes dominated
Irish 24 (27%)
Danish 15 (34%)
Scottish 11 (38%)
English 8 (42%)
Welsh 8 (40%)
Swedish 7 (33%)
English_Cornwall 6 (46%)
French_Britanny 5 (12%)
Orcadian 5 (50%)
Dutch 4 (6%)
Icelandic 3 (25%)
Norwegian 3 (43%)
Shetlandic 1 (33%)

If I add Finn and his Family, Finn's Dad is your 33th closest individual, Finn is your 70th closest individual, and Finn's Mother is your 118th closest individual. 2/3 of this small sample of North Dutch is in your top 100 ;)

Hey Xerxez!

I'm trying to understand my G25 results and your comments about my results. Why are my distances higher than Finn's (and his relatives) distances? Am I more "mixed" or is there maybe some other explanation for that? You wrote that my Nordic position in the broad sense is confirmed, but I don't relate more specifically to a particular people. Then I saw my 100 closest individuals:
Irish 24 (27%)
Danish 15 (34%)
Scottish 11 (38%)
English 8 (42%)
Welsh 8 (40%)
Swedish 7 (33%)
English_Cornwall 6 (46%)
French_Britanny 5 (12%)
Orcadian 5 (50%)
Dutch 4 (6%)
Icelandic 3 (25%)
Norwegian 3 (43%)
Shetlandic 1 (33%)


I really want to know more about my ancestors, but they were everywhere. I'm a mess haha! :D

Bygdedweller
02-07-2021, 11:21 PM
They also predicted my Y-DNA (based on my deep dive matches) and the top 3: R1b, R1a and Il. mtDNA top 3: H1 + H3, H and U5. I don't know what my haplogroups are. I'll order 2 23andme tests (for my father and me) and then I'll find out if their prediction is right! :)

You can also try running this Y-DNA predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

Not sure if MyHeritage provides enough coverage on Y-DNA markers to give accurate results, but you can give it a shot. I ran my data from AncestryDNA through this, which gave a prediction that later turned out to be accurate.

Elske
02-07-2021, 11:56 PM
You can also try running this Y-DNA predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

Not sure if MyHeritage provides enough coverage on Y-DNA markers to give accurate results, but you can give it a shot. I ran my data from AncestryDNA through this, which gave a prediction that later turned out to be accurate.

It's not that I don't want to try it, but woman don't have Y-DNA markers right? I'm all XX... ;)

Bygdedweller
02-08-2021, 12:01 AM
It's not that I don't want to try it, but woman don't have Y-DNA markers right? I'm all XX... ;)
Oops, I'm sorry about that, I didn't look at your profile-section :doh: Thought you were talking about your own Y-DNA at first.

Maybe you can try this instead: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

Elske
02-08-2021, 08:07 AM
Oops, I'm sorry about that, I didn't look at your profile-section :doh: Thought you were talking about your own Y-DNA at first.

Maybe you can try this instead: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

No problem haha! :D

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out!

Finn
02-08-2021, 04:23 PM
In fact the Dutch are in some kind of center of NW Europe, in an overlapping center, the outmost North Dutch are floating in between Irish in the outmost West and the Danes/Swedes more NE in the NW European cluster. Pijlsteen has made this based on the North European G25 PCA:
https://i.postimg.cc/Mp1QrXyg/Europa-Noord1.png

xerxez
02-08-2021, 08:29 PM
Hey Xerxez!

I'm trying to understand my G25 results and your comments about my results. Why are my distances higher than Finn's (and his relatives) distances? Am I more "mixed" or is there maybe some other explanation for that? You wrote that my Nordic position in the broad sense is confirmed, but I don't relate more specifically to a particular people. Then I saw my 100 closest individuals:
Irish 24 (27%)
Danish 15 (34%)
Scottish 11 (38%)
English 8 (42%)
Welsh 8 (40%)
Swedish 7 (33%)
English_Cornwall 6 (46%)
French_Britanny 5 (12%)
Orcadian 5 (50%)
Dutch 4 (6%)
Icelandic 3 (25%)
Norwegian 3 (43%)
Shetlandic 1 (33%)


I really want to know more about my ancestors, but they were everywhere. I'm a mess haha! :D

I think the last message of Finn is a good synthesis of your results. I complete it with a more global of table of G25 samples individuals divided on their distance to you : https://imgur.com/PBAm19a

Your genetic makup is at the crossroad of northwestern europeans who overlap between, which makes you close to British Islands individuals closest to scandinavian and scandinavian closest to british islanders. Your location at the extreme "northwest" of dutch sample may be due to less eastern (baltic, eastern european) influence, that is common with western norwegians. Possible interpretations : your ancestors were more isolated from continental Europeans (other dutch, germans) ? your old ancestors were more norwegian waves among scandinavians ? I let the experts correct me if my interpretations are wrong

Have you made a genealogical tree ? If so, where your ancestors came from ?

You said your closest individuals on Myheritage have typical Frisian last names. Maybe you can check more precisely the locations in Frisia (some specific locations ?), that would complete informations of localisation of your ancestors in your genealogy

It would be interesting to compare with Finn's genealogy

Finn
02-08-2021, 08:49 PM
I think the last message of Finn is a good synthesis of your results. I complete it with a more global of table of G25 samples individuals divided on their distance to you : https://imgur.com/PBAm19a

Your genetic makup is at the crossroad of northwestern europeans who overlap between, which makes you close to British Islands individuals closest to scandinavian and scandinavian closest to british islanders. Your location at the extreme "northwest" of dutch sample may be due to less eastern (baltic, eastern european) influence, that is common with western norwegians. Possible interpretations : your ancestors were more isolated from continental Europeans (other dutch, germans) ? your old ancestors were more norwegian waves among scandinavians ? I let the experts correct me if my interpretations are wrong

Have you made a genealogical tree ? If so, where your ancestors came from ?

You said your closest individuals on Myheritage have typical Frisian last names. Maybe you can check more precisely the locations in Frisia (some specific locations ?), that would complete informations of localisation of your ancestors in your genealogy

It would be interesting to compare with Finn's genealogy

I think you are generally right xerxez.

There was indeed a tendency in the province of Friesland to marry with partners from inside the province. According to a good friend of mine with a brood knowledge of Frisian history and culture this was since about the 16 th century or so the case.

Still this must not be exaggerated, this differences in the North are still small. My direct fatherly line is also from Friesland (Wartena in the heart of this province). So in the 'North Dutch stamp area' there was a lot of interaction.

But with a bird's eye. Friesland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friesland) was in the fourth century practically depopulated. It was repopulated by Anglo-Saxons and Jutes. In Groningen this was also the case but the depopulation (before the Anglo-Saxon influx)) was less. Some parts of Groningen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(province)) like the peatbog district of my father was a magnet for people all over the North Dutch area. Drenthe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drenthe)had a very old population with less setbacks, it was populated since paleo times and was a hotspot of Funnelbeaker, Single Grave and Bell Beaker and so on.....

This may have some influence on a 'G25 calculator' ; I always suppose that the relative high HG percentage of my mother has a connection with her Drenthe ancestry. But may be this is fata morgana....

xerxez
02-08-2021, 09:13 PM
I think you are generally right xerxez.

There was indeed a tendency in the province of Friesland to marry inside the province. According to a good friend of mine with a brood knowledge of Frisian history and culture this was since about the 16 th century or so the case.

Still this must not be exaggerated, this differences in the North are still small. My direct fatherly line is also from Friesland (Wartena in the heart of this province). So in the 'North Dutch stamp area' there was a lot of interaction.

But with a bird's eye. Friesland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friesland) was in the fourth century practically depopulated. It was repopulated by Anglo-Saxons and Jutes. In Groningen this was also the case but the depopulation (before the Anglo-Saxon influx)) was less. Some parts of Groningen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(province)) like the peatbog district of my father was a magnet for people all over the North Dutch area. Drenthe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drenthe)had a very old population with less setbacks, it was populated since paleo times and was a hotspot of Funnelbeaker, Single Grave and Bell Beaker and so on.....

This may have some influence on a 'G25 calculator' ; I always suppose that the relative high HG percentage of my mother has a connection with her Drenthe ancestry. But may be this is fata morgana....

Very interesting. Do you have more modern and ancient north dutch G25 coordinates ? And from lower saxony in Germany ?

Moreover interested to see if elske's ancestors are more from coastal areas than your ancestors who were not directly from the coast if im not wrong

Finn
02-08-2021, 09:22 PM
Very interesting. Do you have more modern and ancient north dutch G25 coordinates ? And from lower saxony in Germany ?

Moreover interested to see if elske's ancestors are more from coastal areas than your ancestors who were not directly from the coast if im not wrong

Father's side coastal, mother's side more inland. But that inland had early connection's with the North Sea, Drenthe had in Funnelbeaker times lots of stuff from Helgoland....

Elske
02-08-2021, 11:55 PM
Very interesting. Do you have more modern and ancient north dutch G25 coordinates ? And from lower saxony in Germany ?

Moreover interested to see if elske's ancestors are more from coastal areas than your ancestors who were not directly from the coast if im not wrong


I've checked my family tree. I can trace some lines back to the 17th century. For example: a direct ancestor of mine lived (born and died 1610-1663) in Noorder-Dragten. They changed the name to Drachten, but I was born in Drachten and my family still lives there. The other lines (earliest: late 17th century / 18th century) were also in Friesland or just across the Friesland - Groningen border: Westerkwartier. That used to be Frisian territory. I can't find ancestors who came from anywhere else. If they came from other regions, then it must've been longer ago. That's possible ofcourse, but I'll never find out about it. I was only able to trace some lines back to the early17th century, because some lines in my family tree were listed as Frisian nobility.

Finn is right about Friesland. Friesland was depopulated because of flooding. There were still a few ancient Frisii left, but they mixed with Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Saxons were a neighbouring tribe. They think that a large group of Frisii left to England and that was before the Anglo-Saxon migration.

xerxez
02-09-2021, 05:23 AM
I've checked my family tree. I can trace some lines back to the 17th century. For example: a direct ancestor of mine lived (born and died 1610-1663) in Noorder-Dragten. They changed the name to Drachten, but I was born in Drachten and my family still lives there. The other lines (earliest: late 17th century / 18th century) were also in Friesland or just across the Friesland - Groningen border: Westerkwartier. That used to be Frisian territory. I can't find ancestors who came from anywhere else. If they came from other regions, then it must've been longer ago. That's possible ofcourse, but I'll never find out about it. I was only able to trace some lines back to the early17th century, because some lines in my family tree were listed as Frisian nobility.

Finn is right about Friesland. Friesland was depopulated because of flooding. There were still a few ancient Frisii left, but they mixed with Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Saxons were a neighbouring tribe. They think that a large group of Frisii left to England and that was before the Anglo-Saxon migration.

With some genealogical websites like geneanet, you can make a map of your ancestors. It would be interesting to see yours and Finns one.

Elske
02-09-2021, 07:07 AM
With some genealogical websites like geneanet, you can make a map of your ancestors. It would be interesting to see yours and Finns one.

Thanks Xerxez. I'll give it a try! :)

xerxez
02-11-2021, 06:27 PM
Thanks Xerxez. I'll give it a try! :)

To Elske and Finn, it would be interesting to contact Anglesqueville on this forum who developed a complementary method to analyze with more precision DNA (multidimensionnal scaling), see this thread : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22910-MDS-plots-for-European-modern-individuals

Finn
02-11-2021, 06:48 PM
To Elske and Finn, it would be interesting to contact Anglesqueville on this forum who developed a complementary method to analyze with more precision DNA (multidimensionnal scaling), see this thread : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22910-MDS-plots-for-European-modern-individuals

Thanks Xerxex, in recent times Angles has already counted me in! (in the umaps). He's also partly (East)Frisian!

xerxez
02-11-2021, 09:28 PM
Thanks Xerxez. I'll give it a try! :)

With this Eurogenes K36 calculator (https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm), you get the coordinates 55.569836413999994 0.2448, in North Sea, between Scotland and Denmark aha

xerxez
02-11-2021, 09:31 PM
Thanks Xerxex, in recent times Angles has already counted me in! (in the umaps). He's also partly (East)Frisian!

So where are you in this plot from Anglesqueville ? https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43223&d=1613060497

anglesqueville
02-11-2021, 09:59 PM
Finn is not on this MDS, nor are any forum users other than Helgenes, his mother, and the three of the Xerxez clan. You can all, if you are interested, get your location on this map. It's $ 1000. No, I'm joking. Seriously, carefully read the autosomal forum thread where I briefly explain what this is about. If after reading you are interested, know that I need dna.land imputed data (*), so you will have to provide me with the post-imputation vcf file, or better the download link of this file (by PM only, do not post especially this link on the forum). Also remember to tell me if you want me to archive this file (for possible further analyses with tools like Admixtools), or if you prefer that I destroy it after use. The last point: I will not make the MDS coordinates public, lest someone crazy of percentages may make absurd use of them. If you have questions please put them on the French speaking subforum https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22964-cartes-quot-Multidimensional-Scaling-quot-pour-g%E9nomes-diplo%EFdes (in English, French or Dutch, as you prefer).

(*) https://dna.land/main

Elske
02-11-2021, 10:48 PM
With this Eurogenes K36 calculator (https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm), you get the coordinates 55.569836413999994 0.2448, in North Sea, between Scotland and Denmark aha

I've checked it haha. Doggerland... :D

Finn
02-12-2021, 11:31 AM
Finn is right about Friesland. Friesland was depopulated because of flooding. There were still a few ancient Frisii left, but they mixed with Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Saxons were a neighbouring tribe. They think that a large group of Frisii left to England and that was before the Anglo-Saxon migration.

I guess the turmoil of the late Roman Period could have had more effect than high tide of the North Sea.....

Westergo (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westergo#/media/Bestand:Westergo.jpg)was in the fourth century mostly depopulated. It disappeared from the archeological radar, no stuff of that time. But Oostergo, Groningen, Ost-Friesland were less depopulated. Some think that at that time the Chauci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauci) were already taking over in the more eastern parts.

In some sense were coastal populations quite vulnerable, because in the constant battle against the sea you have to cooperate. When some people left and there are social gaps then a society can go down fast....see also lots of story's of farmer's who did not maintain the dikes....the coastal societies could not afford that.

Finn
02-12-2021, 11:57 AM
Finn is not on this MDS, nor are any forum users other than Helgenes, his mother, and the three of the Xerxez clan. You can all, if you are interested, get your location on this map. It's $ 1000. No, I'm joking. Seriously, carefully read the autosomal forum thread where I briefly explain what this is about. If after reading you are interested, know that I need dna.land imputed data (*), so you will have to provide me with the post-imputation vcf file, or better the download link of this file (by PM only, do not post especially this link on the forum). Also remember to tell me if you want me to archive this file (for possible further analyses with tools like Admixtools), or if you prefer that I destroy it after use. The last point: I will not make the MDS coordinates public, lest someone crazy of percentages may make absurd use of them. If you have questions please put them on the French speaking subforum https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22964-cartes-quot-Multidimensional-Scaling-quot-pour-g%E9nomes-diplo%EFdes (in English, French or Dutch, as you prefer).

(*) https://dna.land/main

I try to post but the postman has to ring twice....your mailbox is overloaded Angles!

anglesqueville
02-12-2021, 02:47 PM
I try to post but the postman has to ring twice....your mailbox is overloaded Angles!

Mailbox emptied.

Elske
02-12-2021, 11:26 PM
Finn is not on this MDS, nor are any forum users other than Helgenes, his mother, and the three of the Xerxez clan. You can all, if you are interested, get your location on this map. It's $ 1000. No, I'm joking. Seriously, carefully read the autosomal forum thread where I briefly explain what this is about. If after reading you are interested, know that I need dna.land imputed data (*), so you will have to provide me with the post-imputation vcf file, or better the download link of this file (by PM only, do not post especially this link on the forum). Also remember to tell me if you want me to archive this file (for possible further analyses with tools like Admixtools), or if you prefer that I destroy it after use. The last point: I will not make the MDS coordinates public, lest someone crazy of percentages may make absurd use of them. If you have questions please put them on the French speaking subforum https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22964-cartes-quot-Multidimensional-Scaling-quot-pour-g%E9nomes-diplo%EFdes (in English, French or Dutch, as you prefer).

(*) https://dna.land/main

Hello Angles,

I've uploaded the raw data from FTDNA to DNA.land. The status: in progress. I don't know how long it will take, but I'll send you the dna.land imputed data when I have it.

Groetnis út Fryslân! :)

Elske
02-12-2021, 11:44 PM
This kind of inconsistency could be dictated by the lower quality of the new chips from the various DNA testing companies. I suggest instead to follow this guide to convert your raw data to 23andMe V3 format to get a much higher coverage in the calculators (the maximum SNPs you currently reach in the admixture runs on GEDmatch is only 78505 compared to over 180000 of 23andMe V3).

https://dnagenics.com/convert-23andme-to-myheritage-and-gedmatch-classic/

Anyway, your genetic distances with an updated spreadsheet:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

Elske,46.45,24.52,9.14,5.87,6.05,4.91,0,0,0.69,0.5 2,1.01,0.84,0,0,0

Distance to: Elske
7.58003958 West_Norwegian
8.68229232 Dutch_North
8.79435046 Orcadian
9.76339080 Danish

Eurogenes K13

Elske,54.88,22.89,9.25,7.72,1.32,0,1.03,0.91,0.92, 0.93,0.15,0,0

Distance to: Elske
3.87086554 Irish_Connacht
4.02792751 Irish_Munster
4.15767964 Irish_Ulster
4.33099296 Irish
4.36957664 West_Scottish
4.67687930 Scottish
4.99629863 Irish_Leinster
6.03485708 Orcadian
6.60019697 Welsh
6.72658160 English_North
7.26309163 Norwegian
7.45691625 English
7.55056951 Dutch_North
7.72792987 English_Southwest
7.74711559 Dutch_Central
7.88141485 Denmark
7.88625386 English_Midlands
7.99419790 Norway_South_Central
8.10362265 English_Southeast
8.36607435 Dutch
8.43163092 Sweden_Götaland
9.61300681 North_German
9.77856329 France_north-west

When I have the DNA.land imputed VCF file, I'll convert the raw data to the 23andMe V3 format. The DNA Kit Studio is already downloaded on my computer. Thanks again for your advice.

xerxez
02-13-2021, 05:54 AM
When I have the DNA.land imputed VCF file, I'll convert the raw data to the 23andMe V3 format. The DNA Kit Studio is already downloaded on my computer. Thanks again for your advice.

Great, I can't wait to see where you plot on Anglesqueville MDS

You can see where Finn is on this thread on the French Forum : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22964-cartes-quot-Multidimensional-Scaling-quot-pour-g%E9nomes-diplo%EFdes/page5

Elske
02-13-2021, 08:41 AM
Great, I can't wait to see where you plot on Anglesqueville MDS

You can see where Finn is on this thread on the French Forum : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22964-cartes-quot-Multidimensional-Scaling-quot-pour-g%E9nomes-diplo%EFdes/page5

He's very close to Icelandic, Norwegian and GBR on this plot. Something tells me that I'll be there too, but we have to wait to find out. Do you know how long the processing (dna.land) will take?

xerxez
02-13-2021, 08:44 AM
He's very close to Icelandic, Norwegian and GBR on this plot. Something tells me that I'll be there too, but we have to wait to find out. Do you know how long the processing (dna.land) will take?

For me it lasted few hours to get my vcf file

Elske
02-13-2021, 08:55 AM
For me it lasted few hours to get my vcf file

I've uploaded it yesterday around 22.00, but it's still in progress. I have to work today, so I'll check it tonight. Have a nice day! :D

anglesqueville
02-13-2021, 09:08 AM
I don't know whether Finn has posted somewhere the global MDS graphic with him. If not here it is, certainly more interesting than the little zoom that I posted yesterday. Search "finn_NL" ("_NL"for not confusing with all the Finns):
43258
This MDS has 6 components. I've looked attentively to the couples 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, without finding anything supplementary or contradictory to the couple 1-2. However, this will always be a problem with MDS or PCA, and the only solution is to use a drastic algorithm of reduction, like UMAP, with all the problems of interpretation that they put. For Finn, the UMAP computed on the pseudo-metric 1-ibs leads without ambiguity to the same conclusion: he is made with the same wood as Icelanders and Norwegians (or at least those from this sample). I'm pretty sure that we would find the same result for any representative Frisian, be he/she Dutch or German.

xerxez
02-13-2021, 09:43 AM
I've uploaded it yesterday around 22.00, but it's still in progress. I have to work today, so I'll check it tonight. Have a nice day! :D

Thanks, have a nice coldy and sunny day too

Finn
02-13-2021, 12:02 PM
I don't know whether Finn has posted somewhere the global MDS graphic with him. If not here it is, certainly more interesting than the little zoom that I posted yesterday. Search "finn_NL" ("_NL"for not confusing with all the Finns):
43258
This MDS has 6 components. I've looked attentively to the couples 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, without finding anything supplementary or contradictory to the couple 1-2. However, this will always be a problem with MDS or PCA, and the only solution is to use a drastic algorithm of reduction, like UMAP, with all the problems of interpretation that they put. For Finn, the UMAP computed on the pseudo-metric 1-ibs leads without ambiguity to the same conclusion: he is made with the same wood as Icelanders and Norwegians (or at least those from this sample). I'm pretty sure that we would find the same result for any representative Frisian, be he/she Dutch or German.

Yes indeed...I guess so still some Frisians think they are different from Groningers or they think Groningers are Frisians in disguise ;) Anyway: n'importe quoi!
I think these are difference on a poststamp, if there are some small differences it is due to provincial endogamy..... the bigger picture: we 'are indeed made with the same wood as Icelanders and Norwegians.'

Elske
02-13-2021, 03:38 PM
Yes indeed...I guess so still some Frisians think they are different from Groningers or they think Groningers are Frisians in disguise ;) Anyway: n'importe quoi!
I think these are difference on a poststamp, if there are some small differences it is due to provincial endogamy..... the bigger picture: we 'are indeed made with the same wood as Icelanders and Norwegians.'

Frisians in disguise haha...:biggrin1:

Laat het de Groningers maar niet horen!

Finn
02-13-2021, 06:44 PM
Frisians in disguise haha...:biggrin1:

Laat het de Groningers maar niet horen!

Die weten beter hahahah:biggrin1:

Elske
02-13-2021, 07:59 PM
Die weten beter hahahah:biggrin1:

:biggrin1:

Friezen en Groningers plagen elkaar erg graag haha. Dat moet ook zo blijven!

xerxez
02-14-2021, 03:12 PM
I've uploaded it yesterday around 22.00, but it's still in progress. I have to work today, so I'll check it tonight. Have a nice day! :D

Hi, did you get your imputed file finally ?

Elske
02-14-2021, 04:00 PM
Hi, did you get your imputed file finally ?

No not yet, it's still in progress. I've read some complaints about the processing time on their FB-page. Some people have been waiting for 2 weeks...

I hope that I'll have the imputed file soon, but the responses on FB aren't encouraging.

xerxez
02-14-2021, 04:32 PM
Yes indeed...I guess so still some Frisians think they are different from Groningers or they think Groningers are Frisians in disguise ;) Anyway: n'importe quoi!
I think these are difference on a poststamp, if there are some small differences it is due to provincial endogamy..... the bigger picture: we 'are indeed made with the same wood as Icelanders and Norwegians.'

Do you have uploaded your results on Myheritage ? If so, to compare with Elske, I would be interested with (1) your number of matches by countries, (2) your number of matches by ethnic origins, (3) your regional genetics groups

Thanks in advance !

Elske
02-14-2021, 05:34 PM
I've uploaded my raw file to Living DNA. Just for fun... :D

Europe
100%

Europe (North and West)
72.6%

Northwest Germanic: The areas of northwestern Germany, the Netherlands and the Jutland region of Denmark.
72.6%

Great Britain and Ireland
27.4%

East Anglia
7.1%

Southeast England
6.4%

South Central England
6.3%

Northwest England
2.9%

Devon
1.7%

South Yorkshire
1.7%

South Wales
1.1%

Finn
02-15-2021, 05:38 PM
Do you have uploaded your results on Myheritage ? If so, to compare with Elske, I would be interested with (1) your number of matches by countries, (2) your number of matches by ethnic origins, (3) your regional genetics groups

Thanks in advance !

I have uploaded my my heritage matches, unfortunately I can't work with csv files....

xerxez
02-15-2021, 05:47 PM
No need of csv files, just a capture of what you get at the page of global view of your dna results

Elske
02-15-2021, 07:06 PM
Hi, did you get your imputed file finally ?

Update: I can view the reports: Ancestry report, Find Relatives (0 at this point) and I can give my consent for the Trait Prediction Report. But the files are still processing / in progress.

Finn
02-15-2021, 07:06 PM
No need of csv files, just a capture of what you get at the page of global view of your dna results

To give you an impression:
- the first twenty matches are (North) Dutch;
- matches twenty-thirty: besides Dutch: 1 Dane, 1 Swede, 2 US;
- matches forty-fity: besides Dutch,1 Dane, 1 German, 1 UK, 1 US;

Seen the amount of testing is indeed the link with the Danes (North Sea area) clear.

Besides that are my "groups" only North Dutch with East-Friesland and Emsland Germany (borderland).

So quite indigenous North Dutch, related to the Old Anglo-Saxons (that also come close to the Danes).

xerxez
02-15-2021, 07:20 PM
Update: I can view the reports: Ancestry report, Find Relatives (0 at this point) and I can give my consent for the Trait Prediction Report. But the files are still processing / in progress.

OK you will need patience... what are your ancestry results ?

Elske
02-15-2021, 07:44 PM
OK you will need patience... what are your ancestry results ?

Hmmm Different... :biggrin1:

Northwest European 92%
Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands
Does not include: Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Piapoco in Colombia; Estonian in Estonia; Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France; Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain; Finnish in Finland and Gambian in Western Gambia

Mediterranean Islander 5.9%
Includes: Cypriot in Cyprus; Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian in Italy and Maltese in Malta
Does not include: Egyptian in Egypt; Tunisian in Tunisia; Albanian in Albania; Greek in Greece; Palestinian in (Central) Israel; Sardinian and Toscani in (Sardinia and 1 other site) Italy; Syrian in Syrian and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Kayseri and 1 other site) Turkey

Kalash 1.6%
Includes: Kalash in Pakistan
Does not include: Tajik in (Pomiri) Tajikistan; Uzbek in Uzbekistan and Burusho, Hazara and Pathan in Pakistan

xerxez
02-15-2021, 07:45 PM
To give you an impression:
- the first twenty matches are (North) Dutch;
- matches twenty-thirty: besides Dutch: 1 Dane, 1 Swede, 2 US;
- matches forty-fity: besides Dutch,1 Dane, 1 German, 1 UK, 1 US;

See the amount of testing is indeed the link with the Danes (North Sea area) clear.

Besides that are my "groups" only North Dutch with East-Friesland and Emsland Germany (borderland).

So quite indigenous North Dutch, related to the Old Anglo-Saxons (that also come close to the Danes).

Thanks !
And globally what it gives ? For Elske, it is (1) :

USA 1.871
The Netherlands 1.465
Great Britain 421
Germany 420
Denmark 224
France 182
Sweden 165
Australia 127
Norway 112
Canada 108
New-Zealand 63
Switzerland 50
Belgium 44
Finland 25
Ireland 21
Austria 19
Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Compared to my relatives (https://i.imgur.com/pAyXkg2.png), Dutchies and Danish are the most overrepresented for Elske.What about yours ?

(2) As for ethnic components, the most important present in Elske's relatives is Scandinavian one (72,7% have this component present in their ethnic origins), followed by west and north european (66,9%) and English (66,5%).

Compared to me and my family who are french or mixed french/polish/germans, these 3 components are the most overrepresented for her relatives, see the table : https://imgur.com/gls0qes

To finish (3), MyHeritage put Elske in a few genetic groups:
Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Very interested by these 3 informations for you

xerxez
02-15-2021, 07:50 PM
Hmmm Different... :biggrin1:

Northwest European 92%
Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands
Does not include: Saharawi in (Morocco) Western Sahara; Piapoco in Colombia; Estonian in Estonia; Basque/French and French in (South and 1 other site) France; Basque/Spanish and Iberian Population in Spain; Finnish in Finland and Gambian in Western Gambia

Mediterranean Islander 5.9%
Includes: Cypriot in Cyprus; Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian in Italy and Maltese in Malta
Does not include: Egyptian in Egypt; Tunisian in Tunisia; Albanian in Albania; Greek in Greece; Palestinian in (Central) Israel; Sardinian and Toscani in (Sardinia and 1 other site) Italy; Syrian in Syrian and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Kayseri and 1 other site) Turkey

Kalash 1.6%
Includes: Kalash in Pakistan
Does not include: Tajik in (Pomiri) Tajikistan; Uzbek in Uzbekistan and Burusho, Hazara and Pathan in Pakistan

Aha ok, now you begin to have a large number of tests aha

Elske
02-15-2021, 08:02 PM
Aha ok, now you begin to have a large number of tests aha

LOL

How many tests did you do? And on which test are your G25 coordinates based?

I get the high percentage Northwest European, but Mediterranean Islander and Kalash? :D

Finn
02-15-2021, 08:04 PM
Thanks !
And globally what it gives ? For Elske, it is (1) :

USA 1.871
The Netherlands 1.465
Great Britain 421
Germany 420
Denmark 224
France 182
Sweden 165
Australia 127
Norway 112
Canada 108
New-Zealand 63
Switzerland 50
Belgium 44
Finland 25
Ireland 21
Austria 19
Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Compared to my relatives (https://i.imgur.com/pAyXkg2.png), Dutchies and Danish are the most overrepresented for Elske.What about yours ?

(2) As for ethnic components, the most important present in Elske's relatives is Scandinavian one (72,7% have this component present in their ethnic origins), followed by west and north european (66,9%) and English (66,5%).

Compared to me and my family who are french or mixed french/polish/germans, these 3 components are the most overrepresented for her relatives, see the table : https://imgur.com/gls0qes

To finish (3), MyHeritage put Elske in a few genetic groups:
Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Very interested by these 3 informations for you

Countries:
US 1932
Dutch 1359
Germany 449
UK 321
Danish 147
Norway 118
Australia 113
Swedish 111
France 101

Big groups
https://i.postimg.cc/MnTWGPyw/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-01-47.png (https://postimg.cc/MnTWGPyw)


Regional groups
High
https://i.postimg.cc/yWH3NKWz/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-01-14.png (https://postimg.cc/yWH3NKWz)

Medium:
https://i.postimg.cc/N2Fc0LH4/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-08-25.png (https://postimg.cc/N2Fc0LH4)

Low
https://i.postimg.cc/RJ6D8ttj/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-08-37.png (https://postimg.cc/RJ6D8ttj)

Finn
02-15-2021, 08:13 PM
Thanks !
And globally what it gives ? For Elske, it is (1) :

USA 1.871
The Netherlands 1.465
Great Britain 421
Germany 420
Denmark 224
France 182
Sweden 165
Australia 127
Norway 112
Canada 108
New-Zealand 63
Switzerland 50
Belgium 44
Finland 25
Ireland 21
Austria 19
Zuid-Afrika
14
Tsjechische Republiek
12
Spanje
10
Brazilië
9
Polen
7
Italië
7
Hongarije
6
Rusland
5
Chili
4
Mexico
3
Faeroer
3
Singapore
2
Oekraïne
2
Portugal
2
Guadeloupe
2
Taiwan
1
Japan
1
Indonesië
1
Kaaimaneilanden
1
Nieuw-Caledonië
1
Barbados
1
Algerije
1
Aruba
1
Nederlandse Antillen
1
Bahamas
1
Zuid-Korea
1
Angola
1
Hongkong
1
Estland
1
Roemenië
1
Cyprus
1
Egypte
1
Verenigde Arabische Emiraten
1
Malta
1

Compared to my relatives (https://i.imgur.com/pAyXkg2.png), Dutchies and Danish are the most overrepresented for Elske.What about yours ?

(2) As for ethnic components, the most important present in Elske's relatives is Scandinavian one (72,7% have this component present in their ethnic origins), followed by west and north european (66,9%) and English (66,5%).

Compared to me and my family who are french or mixed french/polish/germans, these 3 components are the most overrepresented for her relatives, see the table : https://imgur.com/gls0qes

To finish (3), MyHeritage put Elske in a few genetic groups:
Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Very interested by these 3 informations for you


You can see that I'm a bit more North-Germany like than Elske.....
As such no surprise my ancestry has lived closer to the North German border, more influence from that area.

xerxez
02-15-2021, 08:15 PM
LOL

How many tests did you do? And on which test are your G25 coordinates based?

I get the high percentage Northwest European, but Mediterranean Islander and Kalash? :D

My G25 coordinates are based on 23andme test. I uploaded my results on nearly everything lol : FTDNA, Gedmatch, Myheritage, Wegene, DNALand, ...

Aha maybe there is a hidden connexion between Groningen and Kalash :D

Elske
02-15-2021, 08:35 PM
My G25 coordinates are based on 23andme test. I uploaded my results on nearly everything lol : FTDNA, Gedmatch, Myheritage, Wegene, DNALand, ...

Aha maybe there is a hidden connexion between Groningen and Kalash :D

There must be! :biggrin1:

xerxez
02-15-2021, 08:36 PM
You can see that I'm a bit more North-Germany like than Elske.....
As such no surprise my ancestry has lived closer to the North German border, more influence from that area.

Very interesting !

Here is a comparison between the countries of your matches and those of Elske, ranked by the countries that are the more specific of Elske's :

Elske Finn Elske/Finn ratio
France 182 101 180%
Denmark 224 147 152%
Sweden 165 111 149%
UK 421 321 131%
Australia 127 113 112%
Netherlands 1465 1359 108%
US 1871 1932 97%
Norway 112 118 95%
Germany 420 449 94%

Globally, the numbers are very close. Nonetheless, French, Danish and Swedish and UK are overrepresented in Elske's relatives compared to yours.

Germans, Norwegians and americans are a little overrepresented in your relatives.

Except for Norwegians, my interpretation is that these results are consistent with more coastal genetics of Elske (Scandinavia / British Isles connexion, for French, it would be interesting to see if French relatives of Elske are often from Britanny/Normandy, regions who have strong historic links with British Isles and Scandinavia), opposed to more continental genetics for you (more Germans, and so more americans, as a high percentage of them are of german descent).

Elske
02-15-2021, 08:37 PM
You can see that I'm a bit more North-Germany like than Elske.....
As such no surprise my ancestry has lived closer to the North German border, more influence from that area.

It's nice to see your results as well. You're indeed a bit more North-Germany like, but we do share a few genetic groups.

xerxez
02-15-2021, 08:51 PM
Countries:
US 1932
Dutch 1359
Germany 449
UK 321
Danish 147
Norway 118
Australia 113
Swedish 111
France 101

Big groups
https://i.postimg.cc/MnTWGPyw/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-01-47.png (https://postimg.cc/MnTWGPyw)


Regional groups
High
https://i.postimg.cc/yWH3NKWz/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-01-14.png (https://postimg.cc/yWH3NKWz)

Medium:
https://i.postimg.cc/N2Fc0LH4/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-08-25.png (https://postimg.cc/N2Fc0LH4)

Low
https://i.postimg.cc/RJ6D8ttj/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-15-om-21-08-37.png (https://postimg.cc/RJ6D8ttj)

and what are the ethnics origins of your relatives, fo finish ? :)

Finn
02-15-2021, 09:13 PM
Very interesting !

Here is a comparison between the countries of your matches and those of Elske, ranked by the countries that are the more specific of Elske's :

Elske Finn Elske/Finn ratio
France 182 101 180%
Denmark 224 147 152%
Sweden 165 111 149%
UK 421 321 131%
Australia 127 113 112%
Netherlands 1465 1359 108%
US 1871 1932 97%
Norway 112 118 95%
Germany 420 449 94%

Globally, the numbers are very close. Nonetheless, French, Danish and Swedish and UK are overrepresented in Elske's relatives compared to yours.

Germans, Norwegians and americans are a little overrepresented in your relatives.

Except for Norwegians, my interpretation is that these results are consistent with more coastal genetics of Elske (Scandinavia / British Isles connexion, for French, it would be interesting to see if French relatives of Elske are often from Britanny/Normandy, regions who have strong historic links with British Isles and Scandinavia), opposed to more continental genetics for you (more Germans, and so more americans, as a high percentage of them are of german descent).

No that’s to exaggerated you can’t copy paste such results and draw such a conclusion xerxex, Drachten and Groningen are just a few miles away,my family in direct line was even from a skipper family, so coastal: I guess so, the only reasonable thing is that I’m more Northern Germany orientated....(see the fine tuned groups).

xerxez
02-15-2021, 09:27 PM
No that’s to exaggerated you can’t copy paste such results and draw such a conclusion xerxex, Drachten and Groningen are just a few miles away,my family in direct line was even from a skipper family, so coastal: I guess so, the only reasonable thing is that I’m more Northern Germany orientated....(see the fine tuned groups).

The numbers are really close anyway. I can't wait to see mds results

Finn
02-15-2021, 09:58 PM
The numbers are really close anyway. I can't wait to see mds results

I'm no whiz kid but this is too simple xerxex, you should take in account the total matches and even the length of the matches etc.
And then you don't know the 'directions' of these matches.

I did a quick scan my mother has even US 2.529!
No wonder because in here 'groups' the midwest showedy up (there were bunch of people from her province that went to US!).

The only thing you could say that and that's based on matches, groups etc. is that grosso modo the difference between Elske and the Finn's are not that big, but if you zoom in, we can find this.

Eslke's groups:

Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Compared to the Finn's the essential overlap is 'Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen' that's imo core North Dutch. (The other groups show also up in our case like Holland/ Rotterdam, but that are migration patterns intra Dutch).

The essential difference is 'Friesland' only Finn Mom got this on a low level. That group is based on endogamy in the province of Friesland. But that's a quite modern (1600>) phenomenon. And as said the difference is more Lower Saxony influences in our case due to the closeness and interaction along the border. I can assure you that Drachten is not coastal, it's a peat bog, more inland.

Nevertheless stays fascinating those overlaps and differences!

For the fun:
Finn mom
US 2.529
Dutch 1.640
Germany 423
UK 346
France 140
Danish 131
Swedish 121
Norway 119

Finn Dad
US 2.184
Dutch 1.249
Germany 504
UK 309
Danish 185
Swedish 158
France 106
Norway 97

xerxez
02-15-2021, 10:12 PM
I'm no whiz kid but this is to simple xerxex, you should take in account the total matches and even the length of the matches etc.
And then you don't know the 'directions' of these matches.

I did a quick scan my mother has even US 2.529!
No wonder because in here 'groups' the midwest showed up (there were bunch of people from her province that went to US!).

The only thing you could say that and that's based on matches, groups etc. is that grosso modo the difference between Elske and the Finn's are not that big, but if you zoom in, we can find this.

Eslke's groups:

Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Compared to the Finn's the essential overlap is 'Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen' that's imo core North Dutch. (The other groups show also up in our case like Holland/ Rotterdam, but that are migration patterns intra Dutch).

The essential difference is 'Friesland' only Finn Mom got this on a low level. That group is based on endogamy in the province of Friesland. But that's a quite modern (1600>) phenomenon. And as said the difference is more Lower Saxony influences in our case due to the closeness and interaction along the border. I can ashore you that Drachten is not coastal, it's a peat bog, more inland.

Nevertheless stays fascinating those overlaps and differences!

For the fun:
Finn mom
US 2.529
Dutch 1.640
Germany 423
UK 346
France 140
Danish 131
Swedish 121
Norway 119

Finn Dad
US 2.184
Dutch 1.249
Germany 504
UK 309
Danish 185
Swedish 158
France 106
Norway 97

Thanks. Your parents distribution of matches are really close to yours and Elske's : compared to my mother who's northern french, danish and germans then other scandinavians are the most overrepresented. It would be really be interesting to know the surnames of french matches to check my hypothesis of overrepresentation of britanny/normandy last names

Elske
02-16-2021, 07:46 AM
Thanks. Your parents distribution of matches are really close to yours and Elske's : compared to my mother who's northern french, danish and germans then other scandinavians are the most overrepresented. It would be really be interesting to know the surnames of french matches to check my hypothesis of overrepresentation of britanny/normandy last names

Your mailbox is full: xerxez has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

When I look at my French matches, I see quite a few Dutch and German surnames. And most of my French matches aren't very reliable, according to MyHeritage.

xerxez
02-16-2021, 08:00 AM
Your mailbox is full: xerxez has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

When I look at my French matches, I see quite a few Dutch and German surnames. And most of my French matches aren't very reliable, according to MyHeritage.

Thanks. You can pm me now, my box is empty.

Elske
02-16-2021, 12:47 PM
I'm no whiz kid but this is too simple xerxex, you should take in account the total matches and even the length of the matches etc.
And then you don't know the 'directions' of these matches.

I did a quick scan my mother has even US 2.529!
No wonder because in here 'groups' the midwest showedy up (there were bunch of people from her province that went to US!).

The only thing you could say that and that's based on matches, groups etc. is that grosso modo the difference between Elske and the Finn's are not that big, but if you zoom in, we can find this.

Eslke's groups:

Reliability level high: Friesland
Reliability level medium: Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen, Groningen en Friesland en Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland Gelderland en Utrecht
Reliability level low: Rotterdam

Compared to the Finn's the essential overlap is 'Groningen, Drenthe, Friesland en Nedersaksen' that's imo core North Dutch. (The other groups show also up in our case like Holland/ Rotterdam, but that are migration patterns intra Dutch).

The essential difference is 'Friesland' only Finn Mom got this on a low level. That group is based on endogamy in the province of Friesland. But that's a quite modern (1600>) phenomenon. And as said the difference is more Lower Saxony influences in our case due to the closeness and interaction along the border. I can assure you that Drachten is not coastal, it's a peat bog, more inland.

Nevertheless stays fascinating those overlaps and differences!

For the fun:
Finn mom
US 2.529
Dutch 1.640
Germany 423
UK 346
France 140
Danish 131
Swedish 121
Norway 119

Finn Dad
US 2.184
Dutch 1.249
Germany 504
UK 309
Danish 185
Swedish 158
France 106
Norway 97

Hey Finn! I did the MyHeritage test and my G25 coordinates are based on the MH-data.

Jadegreg adviced me and another MyHeritage-tester to do the Ancestry test, because (his words) the current iterations of 23&me, MyHeritage and FTDNA (GSA microarray) are not ideal for the G25, because they offer less SNPs for David's PCA/analysis than prior versions (Omniexpress microarray) offered.

I want to do a second test, but I'm in doubt between Ancestry and 23andme. So my questions for you are: How many tests did you do and on which test are your (and your father & mother) G25 coordinates based? Xerxez prefers 23andme, but what do you recommend? I can't do them both at the moment! :biggrin1:

Finn
02-16-2021, 03:46 PM
Hey Finn! I did the MyHeritage test and my G25 coordinates are based on the MH-data.

Jadegreg adviced me and another MyHeritage-tester to do the Ancestry test, because (his words) the current iterations of 23&me, MyHeritage and FTDNA (GSA microarray) are not ideal for the G25, because they offer less SNPs for David's PCA/analysis than prior versions (Omniexpress microarray) offered.

I want to do a second test, but I'm in doubt between Ancestry and 23andme. So my questions for you are: How many tests did you do and on which test are your (and your father & mother) G25 coordinates based? Xerxez prefers 23andme, but what do you recommend? I can't do them both at the moment! :biggrin1:

Hey Elske! If you ask me honestly I would not do neither one of them, from what I have seen here the difference are not that big! If you insist may be the other members do have an advice it's a matter of chip versions etc that's too technical for me.....

Elske
02-16-2021, 04:09 PM
Hey Elske! If you ask me honestly I would not do neither one of them, from what I have seen here the difference are not that big! If you insist may be the other members do have an advice it's a matter of chip versions etc that's too technical for me.....

Where did you did your DNA-test? Only at MyHeritage? And on which test are your G25 coordinates based? I'm curious... :D

xerxez
02-16-2021, 05:51 PM
Hey Finn! I did the MyHeritage test and my G25 coordinates are based on the MH-data.

Jadegreg adviced me and another MyHeritage-tester to do the Ancestry test, because (his words) the current iterations of 23&me, MyHeritage and FTDNA (GSA microarray) are not ideal for the G25, because they offer less SNPs for David's PCA/analysis than prior versions (Omniexpress microarray) offered.

I want to do a second test, but I'm in doubt between Ancestry and 23andme. So my questions for you are: How many tests did you do and on which test are your (and your father & mother) G25 coordinates based? Xerxez prefers 23andme, but what do you recommend? I can't do them both at the moment! :biggrin1:

Elske, maybe you could ask also advices to @anglesqueville on that topic

anglesqueville
02-16-2021, 06:08 PM
Elske, maybe you could ask also advices to @anglesqueville on that topic

The only one who is plainly authorized to answer is [email protected] himself.

Elske
02-16-2021, 06:59 PM
I'm open for advices! ;)

What's your personal preference @anglesqueville ?

Finn
02-16-2021, 07:20 PM
Where did you did your DNA-test? Only at MyHeritage? And on which test are your G25 coordinates based? I'm curious... :D

Indeed FTDNA! I have even done Big-Y but that's waiting for Godot.....(before I get a connection)

anglesqueville
02-17-2021, 08:43 AM
I'm open for advices! ;)

What's your personal preference @anglesqueville ?

If I understood correctly, the problem is: what data to send to Eurogenes for G25? The answer is simple: those which contain the most SNPs in common with the panel used for G25. Only the designer of G25 can answer this question. For my part, I forgot for a long time what data I sent for my parents and me, it was at the very beginning of G25, and we all three had data in at least two companies (23 & me_V4 and ftdna), but I think at the time David preferred ftdna. Today it does not seem to me that the difference between the panels of SNPs tested by Ancestry and the others justifies having a preference. Mainly I'm willing to bet that the projection procedure used with smartpca (Lsqproject) to get the G25 components smoothes out to a great extent the quality differences between the data used. For me, if you already have your G25 from a certain company, buying another test to get another G25 is money wasted.

Elske
02-17-2021, 09:30 AM
If I understood correctly, the problem is: what data to send to Eurogenes for G25? The answer is simple: those which contain the most SNPs in common with the panel used for G25. Only the designer of G25 can answer this question. For my part, I forgot for a long time what data I sent for my parents and me, it was at the very beginning of G25, and we all three had data in at least two companies (23 & me_V4 and ftdna), but I think at the time David preferred ftdna. Today it does not seem to me that the difference between the panels of SNPs tested by Ancestry and the others justifies having a preference. Mainly I'm willing to bet that the projection procedure used with smartpca (Lsqproject) to get the G25 components smoothes out to a great extent the quality differences between the data used. For me, if you already have your G25 from a certain company, buying another test to get another G25 is money wasted.

Thanks for your response! I really want to do a second test, but I'm not just doing it for G25 purposes. After reading old threads with a similar question (about raw data + SNP's + G25) I decided to go for Ancestry DNA. I ordered the test! :)

Elske
02-17-2021, 10:29 AM
@xerxez I have a new close match on MyHeritage. I know him, because he's the son of my cousin. His grandmother and my father are siblings. We share 2 etnicities, but I can see only one. I have 48% Scandinavian and he has 52,5% Scandinavian. MyHeritage estimated our relationship: first cousin and that's correct! My father decided to do the MyHeritage-test as well, so I'm curious about his results. He's not much interested in his haplogoup, so no Y DNA results.

jadegreg
02-17-2021, 11:26 AM
If I understood correctly, the problem is: what data to send to Eurogenes for G25? The answer is simple: those which contain the most SNPs in common with the panel used for G25. Only the designer of G25 can answer this question. For my part, I forgot for a long time what data I sent for my parents and me, it was at the very beginning of G25, and we all three had data in at least two companies (23 & me_V4 and ftdna), but I think at the time David preferred ftdna. Today it does not seem to me that the difference between the panels of SNPs tested by Ancestry and the others justifies having a preference. Mainly I'm willing to bet that the projection procedure used with smartpca (Lsqproject) to get the G25 components smoothes out to a great extent the quality differences between the data used. For me, if you already have your G25 from a certain company, buying another test to get another G25 is money wasted.

For the most part I would agree. It seems most people's G25 largely don't differ, with respect to testing company. However, there is always the odd freak, like myself, whose 23&me v5 G25 looks nothing like their Ancestry G25....Although I no longer have my initial 23&me G25, I'll use the DNA.Land result to demonstrate potential differences, with respect to a masively reduced SNP count......

23&me v5
43361

AncestryDNA v2
43362

NB:- It certainly is possible the discrepancy is not just due to reduced SNPs, but also different phasing between the two companies. Given reasonable discrepancies between myself and my sister on 23&me and MH, I would like to think they're the ones that got it at least a bit wrong......probably

anglesqueville
02-17-2021, 01:28 PM
From V4 to V5 23&me changed their sequencing chip. I seem to remember there are some problems with the V5, but I don't know much about it.

jadegreg
02-17-2021, 02:01 PM
I have to say, I don't know which SNPs were pruned from v4 to v5, and which SNPs Davidski uses for his G25, though it obviously has a great deal of overlap with the published ancDNA publications. Going by the outdated, but still popular Eurogenes tests, v5 offers ~33% of the coverage offered by the current AncestryDNA chip, though I suspect that the G25 uses more SNPs, so the differences may not be as severe...

anglesqueville
02-17-2021, 02:20 PM
I have to say, I don't know which SNPs were pruned from v4 to v5, and which SNPs Davidski uses for his G25, though it obviously has a great deal of overlap with the published ancDNA publications. Going by the outdated, but still popular Eurogenes tests, v5 offers ~33% of the coverage offered by the current AncestryDNA chip, though I suspect that the G25 uses more SNPs, so the differences may not be as severe...

As most ancient are published under Reich's 1240k panel, I suspect that the overlapping with 1240K is the key to the topic. For many familial samples, I used imputed data extracted to 1240K and seemingly David was satisfied with them. But of course, I'm aware that many people doubt imputed data.

jadegreg
02-17-2021, 03:03 PM
Well, I'll check the imputed DNA.Land against my WGS and see how it works out, though I suspect there maybe issues based upon phasing differences between the two, rather than just imperfect imputation...

Perhaps someone may add the 1240K panel to WGS Extract?

Finn
02-17-2021, 06:49 PM
Thanks. Your parents distribution of matches are really close to yours and Elske's : compared to my mother who's northern french, danish and germans then other scandinavians are the most overrepresented. It would be really be interesting to know the surnames of french matches to check my hypothesis of overrepresentation of britanny/normandy last names

I guess the Nordic thing is overestimated even too much wishfull thinking.
In the North Dutch case there was in the early middle ages an "Anglo-Saxon" influx from NW Germany and may be some Jutish elite migration. The Anglo-Saxon stream shows a genetic affinity with the (modern) Scandic one (and may be the indigenous people before in the North Dutch area too).
The French around the Channel and in some other places had some Saxon and later on Viking influence. But I guess this is at least 10 century's later very diluted.
Why are there so much Vicky the Viking apologetics? Ragnar wannabe something.... or?:biggrin1:

xerxez
02-17-2021, 07:43 PM
I guess the Nordic thing is overestimated even too much wishfull thinking.
In the North Dutch case there was in the early middle ages an "Anglo-Saxon" influx from NW Germany and may be some Jutish elite migration. The Anglo-Saxon stream show a genetic affinity with the Scandic one (and may be the indigenous people before in the North Dutch area too).
The French around the Channel and in some other places had some Saxon and later on Viking influence. But I guess this is at least 10 century's later very diluted.
Why are there so much Vicky the Viking apologetics? Ragnar wannabe something.... or?:biggrin1:

French from Britanny and from Dieppe (average coordinates of individuals furnished by Anglesqueville) are closer to the NW European cluster than to the French Cluster https://i.ibb.co/9YWNPjn/xc.png

But as you say, this Nordic influence in these regions must be old and probably shouldn't translate into DNA cousinings that more reflect recent origins if I'm not mistaken.

xerxez
02-17-2021, 07:49 PM
@xerxez I have a new close match on MyHeritage. I know him, because he's the son of my cousin. His grandmother and my father are siblings. We share 2 etnicities, but I can see only one. I have 48% Scandinavian and he has 52,5% Scandinavian. MyHeritage estimated our relationship: first cousin and that's correct! My father decided to do the MyHeritage-test as well, so I'm curious about his results. He's not much interested in his haplogoup, so no Y DNA results.

Thanks for these informations :) His family have the same origins than you ? (Frisia)

You should be able to see the other ethnicities for him but we know the lack of precision of Myheritage algorythm. Of course, that would be interesting to know his regional genetic groups on MH and to get his G25 coordinates, to increase north dutch sample size ? ;)

Finn
02-17-2021, 07:56 PM
French from Britanny and from Dieppe (average coordinates of individuals furnished by Anglesqueville) are closer to the NW European cluster than to the French Cluster https://i.ibb.co/9YWNPjn/xc.png

But as you say, this Nordic influence in these regions must be old and probably shouldn't translate into DNA cousinings that more reflect recent origins if I'm not mistaken.

Dieppe could indeed one of these places "diep" is in my language synonym for canal, lots of streets in my city have that name! The canals around the city-center are called "diepenring".

But how big was that influence xerxex? Autosomal dna is very flux....

xerxez
02-17-2021, 08:01 PM
Dieppe could indeed one of these places "diep" is in my language synonym for canal, lots of streets in my city have that name! The canals around the city-center are called "diepenring".

But how big was that influence xerxex? Autosomal dna is very flux....

Here again, Anglesqueville has maybe an opinion on the order of magnitude of this influence, in particular by relying on his MDS analyzes.

Elske
02-17-2021, 08:40 PM
Thanks for these informations :) His family have the same origins than you ? (Frisia)

You should be able to see the other ethnicities for him but we know the lack of precision of Myheritage algorythm. Of course, that would be interesting to know his regional genetic groups on MH and to get his G25 coordinates, to increase north dutch sample size ? ;)

Yes, his origins are the same as mine. My grandparents were his great-grandparents. His father is a Frisian too and comes from the same area. I figured his other ethnicity out. He's 52,5% Scandinavian and 47,5% English. We never contact each other, so it feels a little weird to ask him about his results. My father's results will be ready in a few weeks time. I'll give you his coordinates! ;)

anglesqueville
02-17-2021, 11:15 PM
Dieppe could indeed one of these places "diep" is in my language synonym for canal, lots of streets in my city have that name! The canals around the city-center are called "diepenring".

But how big was that influence xerxex? Autosomal dna is very flux....

The toponym "Dieppe" is clearly associated with the river which flows into the Channel at this place, which took the name of "Béthune" since the 16th century, and carried that of "Tella" before the Anglo-Scandinavian settlements in the 11th century. Dieppe = diep (Dutch), dijp (Frisian) = djúp- (modern Icelandic) = deep.

Olymp
02-18-2021, 05:38 AM
French from Britanny and from Dieppe (average coordinates of individuals furnished by Anglesqueville) are closer to the NW European cluster than to the French Cluster https://i.ibb.co/9YWNPjn/xc.png

But as you say, this Nordic influence in these regions must be old and probably shouldn't translate into DNA cousinings that more reflect recent origins if I'm not mistaken.

Only the Britons from the West cluster with the English and Irish, those from the East are closer to the French, or even are completely in the French cluster

The samples from Anglesqueville do not interest me (no genealogy), nor his PCA, all this seems to me to be doubtful and not really scientific ... I prefer to rely on genetic studies, especially with regard to Normandy.

anglesqueville
02-18-2021, 08:16 AM
As I would be in violation of ToS if I accused the so-called Olymp of being a troll, I will not. I only recall that the so-called Olymp is leading a personal crusade here, which consists of defending the idea that the French population is genetically homogeneous. There are two (yes, 2) "scientific studies" that he constantly calls for help: that of Biagini and N. Saint-Pierre. Discussion threads have been devoted to these studies, I'll let you go back and get your idea as to the value of these studies. As for the PCAs of which the so-called Olymp speaks, you are perfectly entitled not to pay attention to mine (especially when they are not PCAs), and to only look at the others, innumerable, where a "French" cluster appears.

edit: I forgot to say that on the MDS I'm currently posting the 6 individuals from Dieppe who are here in question are not present, for the very simple reason that I didn't get imputed data for them. All the individuals coded "French" on these MDS are taken from known scientific databanks (mainly HGDP, HumanOrigins and ThreeCities Project). About these 6 individuals, their genealogy is perfectly known on the 4 preceding generations (and more than 4 for some of them), which is much more than for the individuals from the Biagini study, who are regionally coded without any genealogical constraint (only the place of birth). For me, it's a final point. I'm willing to bet that the so-called Olymp is going to spoil this thread as he already did with another. I will not respond to his provocations.

Finn
02-18-2021, 08:17 AM
Only the Britons from the West cluster with the English and Irish, those from the East are closer to the French, or even are completely in the French cluster

The samples from Anglesqueville do not interest me (no genealogy), nor his PCA, all this seems to me to be doubtful and not really scientific ... I prefer to rely on genetic studies, especially with regard to Normandy.

Ok not explicit scientific, but I guess it's a matter of nuance.

Based on K36 Lukasz has made 'heat maps', this one is from my father, I guess that seen from North Dutch/ NNW perspective NW France is somewhat closer than for example Aquitaine....

https://i.postimg.cc/5Hy6gmww/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-18-om-09-10-48.png (https://postimg.cc/5Hy6gmww)

May be NW France is not 'core' NW European in genetic sense (but core: that's also arbitrary), IMO it's kind of intermediate.

jstephan
02-18-2021, 08:33 AM
Only the Britons from the West cluster with the English and Irish, those from the East are closer to the French, or even are completely in the French cluster

The samples from Anglesqueville do not interest me (no genealogy), nor his PCA, all this seems to me to be doubtful and not really scientific ... I prefer to rely on genetic studies, especially with regard to Normandy.

90% of G25 Bretons samples are from the Eastern part of Brittany, how do you explain their position in that case? And they come from one of these "scientific studies". Regarding Normandy, we have now been collecting sufficiently samples from Cotentin to Seine-Maritime to know what it looks like, and this will certainly reflect what new studies are going to say too one day or another.

Take the 31 samples labelled "French_Brittany:Rennes" (Eastern Brittany) on the G25, add them under the target tab on vahaduo, then compare them to the whole modern spreadsheet after removing Brittany and keep only the top 1 modern population, here are the results :

Welsh 12
Cornwall 5
Pas de Calais 4
English 3
Belgium 3
Irish 2
Orcadian 1
Paris 1

anglesqueville
02-18-2021, 08:59 AM
Ok not explicit scientific, but I guess it's a matter of nuance.

Based on K36 Lukasz has made 'heat maps', this one is from my father, I guess that seen from North Dutch/ NNW perspective NW France is somewhat closer than for example Aquitaine....

https://i.postimg.cc/5Hy6gmww/Schermafbeelding-2021-02-18-om-09-10-48.png (https://postimg.cc/5Hy6gmww)

May be NW France is not 'core' NW European in genetic sense (but core: that's also arbitrary), IMO it's kind of intermediate.

To take for example only the work which occupies me currently, namely the MDS plots, I do not see well what they could lack to be qualified "explicitly scientific". The references are all from universally known and used databases (1kG, HumanOrigins, HGDP, etc.), the tools are among the most used by university teams (PLINK is the absolute reference for the management of genetic data), no model (which could, for example, be biased by particular choices or orientations) is interposed between the data and the results, finally, the visualization tools (R and ggplot2) are themselves also part of the toolbox of all statisticians. As for the private individuals who come to be added, it is not by chance that I imposed that their data be imputed, not by me, but by a confirmed public service having its origin in a university project. Last but not least, these analyzes are reproducible (data and tools are freely usable, as are the procedures).

Finn
02-18-2021, 09:17 AM
To take for example only the work which occupies me currently, namely the MDS plots, I do not see well what could miss them to be qualified "explicitly scientific". The references are all from universally known and used databases (1kG, HumanOrigins, HGDP, etc.), the tools are among the most used by university teams (PLINK is the absolute reference for the management of genetic data), no model (which could, for example, be biased by particular choices or orientations) is interposed between the data and the results, finally, the visualization tools (R and ggplot2) are themselves also part of the toolbox of all statisticians. As for the private individuals who come to be added, it is not by chance that I imposed that their data be imputed, not by me, but by a confirmed public service having its origin in a university project. Last but not least, these analyzes are reproducible (data and tools are freely usable, as are the procedures).

Agree Angles but scientific in my sentence was aimed at K36 heat map. Otherwise I guess you are and work pretty scientific....

anglesqueville
02-18-2021, 09:21 AM
Agree Angles but scientific in my sentence was aimed at K36 heat map. Otherwise I guess you are and work pretty scientific....

OK Leon. "Not explicitly scientific" for the K36 heat maps is an understatement :biggrin1:

Finn
02-18-2021, 09:22 AM
To take for example only the work which occupies me currently, namely the MDS plots, I do not see well what could miss them to be qualified "explicitly scientific". The references are all from universally known and used databases (1kG, HumanOrigins, HGDP, etc.), the tools are among the most used by university teams (PLINK is the absolute reference for the management of genetic data), no model (which could, for example, be biased by particular choices or orientations) is interposed between the data and the results, finally, the visualization tools (R and ggplot2) are themselves also part of the toolbox of all statisticians. As for the private individuals who come to be added, it is not by chance that I imposed that their data be imputed, not by me, but by a confirmed public service having its origin in a university project. Last but not least, these analyzes are reproducible (data and tools are freely usable, as are the procedures).

What is more of interest for me how do you think the impact of the Germanic ('Anglo-Saxon' and 'Viking') stream in genetic sense has had on NW France? Superficial or deep?

Finn
02-18-2021, 09:23 AM
OK Leon. "Not explicitly scientific" for the K36 heat maps is an understatement :biggrin1:

Nevertheless the result is with some eye for population development in the past not odd (IMO).

anglesqueville
02-18-2021, 09:47 AM
What is more of interest for me how do you think the impact of the Germanic ('Anglo-Saxon' and 'Viking') stream in genetic sense has had on NW France? Superficial or deep?

It is difficult to quantify this impact by bringing it out from the settlement ground ( common since at least the Neolithic). If I had to answer by one only word: deep. Even the Frankish influence is in my opinion deeper than often said. The formation of the French language is impossible to understand without a deep phonological Germanic imprint, at the point that one could say that French is a bad vulgar Latin spoken with a Low German accent. I cannot imagine how it could be possible unless an important population settlement in the regions where the Oil French language originated. About, not the "Viking", but the Anglo-Scandinavian influence in Normandy (at least in the coastal regions of Normandy), for me it's much more than an influence. In some regions, the whole toponymy has been upset, with the disappearance of the most part of the Gallo-roman toponyms and their replacement by wholly or partly Scandinavian toponyms. In the canton where I live (Canton de Criquetot = Kirketoft) more than 80% of the toponyms have a Scandinavian or old English basis.

jstephan
02-18-2021, 10:34 AM
It is difficult to quantify this impact by bringing it out from the settlement ground ( common since at least the Neolithic). If I had to answer by one only word: deep. Even the Frankish influence is in my opinion deeper than often said. The formation of the French language is impossible to understand without a deep phonological Germanic imprint, at the point that one could say that French is a bad vulgar Latin spoken with a Low German accent. I cannot imagine how it could be possible unless an important population settlement in the regions where the Oil French language originated. About, not the "Viking", but the Anglo-Scandinavian influence in Normandy (at least in the coastal regions of Normandy), for me it's much more than an influence. In some regions, the whole toponymy has been upset, with the disappearance of the most part of the Gallo-roman toponyms and their replacement by wholly or partly Scandinavian toponyms. In the canton where I live (Canton de Criquetot = Kirketoft) more than 80% of the toponyms have a Scandinavian or old English basis.

A large scale study based on Haplogroups would a good way to answer that question, but when is this going to occur....

JFWinstone
02-18-2021, 10:57 AM
Hi Elske! You are a 7.4CM match to my dad on gedmatch, slightly too small for the 8CM cut off for myheritage. My dad has ancestry from Friesland, specifically from Drachten and surrounding area on his mother's maternal grandfather's side.

Elske
02-18-2021, 12:29 PM
Hi Elske! You are a 7.4CM match to my dad on gedmatch, slightly too small for the 8CM cut off for myheritage. My dad has ancestry from Friesland, specifically from Drachten and surrounding area on his mother's maternal grandfather's side.

That's nice haha...thanks for your response! :D I was born in Drachten and I still live there. Do you know the surname of your father's maternal grandfather? Maybe I can fix this puzzle!

JFWinstone
02-18-2021, 12:53 PM
That's nice haha...thanks for your response! :D I was born in Drachten and I still live there. Do you know the surname of your father's maternal grandfather? Maybe I can fix this puzzle!

My 3rd Great Grandmother Aaltje Geerts Buisman (1860-1944) was from Drachten, her father Geert Alberts Buisman (1824-1887) also Drachten, her mother Romkjen Melles Koopmans (1823-1892) was from Beetsterzwaag.
Geert Alberts Buisman's father Albert Sjoerds Buisman (1796-1865) Drachten, Mother Jitske Jans Westra/Westerling (1795-1866) Drachten.
Romkjen Melles Koopmans father Rinze Melles Koopmans (1792-1865) Beetsterzwaag, Mother Aaltje Klazes Kuipers (1790-1874) Lippenhuizen.

Under spoiler screenshot of the Dutch side of my tree on ancestry



https://i.imgur.com/rvkwsu1.png

Elske
02-18-2021, 01:08 PM
My 3rd Great Grandmother Aaltje Geerts Buisman (1860-1944) was from Drachten, her father Geert Alberts Buisman (1824-1887) also Drachten, her mother Romkjen Melles Koopmans (1823-1892) was from Beetsterzwaag.
Geert Alberts Buisman's father Albert Sjoerds Buisman (1796-1865) Drachten, Mother Jitske Jans Westra/Westerling (1795-1866) Drachten.
Romkjen Melles Koopmans father Rinze Melles Koopmans (1792-1865) Beetsterzwaag, Mother Aaltje Klazes Kuipers (1790-1874) Lippenhuizen.

Under spoiler screenshot of the Dutch side of my tree on ancestry



https://i.imgur.com/rvkwsu1.png



Thank you very much! I'll check my family tree to see if I can figure it out. As soon as I know more, I'll let you know! :)

Elske
02-18-2021, 08:53 PM
My 3rd Great Grandmother Aaltje Geerts Buisman (1860-1944) was from Drachten, her father Geert Alberts Buisman (1824-1887) also Drachten, her mother Romkjen Melles Koopmans (1823-1892) was from Beetsterzwaag.
Geert Alberts Buisman's father Albert Sjoerds Buisman (1796-1865) Drachten, Mother Jitske Jans Westra/Westerling (1795-1866) Drachten.
Romkjen Melles Koopmans father Rinze Melles Koopmans (1792-1865) Beetsterzwaag, Mother Aaltje Klazes Kuipers (1790-1874) Lippenhuizen.

Under spoiler screenshot of the Dutch side of my tree on ancestry



https://i.imgur.com/rvkwsu1.png



I can't find the connection. Your family-names aren't in my tree. It's the Drachten / Beetsterzwaag / Lippenhuizen area, so that's my father's side. Some lines go back to the 17th century, but not all lines go that far back. It remains a mystery! :biggrin1:

Finn
02-19-2021, 07:39 AM
I can't find the connection. Your family-names aren't in my tree. It's the Drachten / Beetsterzwaag / Lippenhuizen area, so that's my father's side. Some lines go back to the 17th century, but not all lines go that far back. It remains a mystery! :biggrin1:

Autosomal DNA is broader I guess so, unless you have all your ancestors in the picture....

It's most likely that I don't share any autosomal segments with my paternal oldest ancestors of the 17th century (Haije Jans from Wartena).

Elske
02-19-2021, 09:30 AM
Autosomal DNA is broader I guess so, unless you have all you ancestors in the picture....

It's most likely that I don't share any autosomal segments with direct paternal my oldest ancestors of the 17th century (Haije Jans Wartena).

Hey Finn! No, I don't have them all in the picture haha! It's an estimated guess, because my father's lines (for as far as I can trace them) were in the Drachten-region. My mother: gemeente Achtkarspelen / Westerkwartier.

Pylsteen
02-19-2021, 10:05 AM
Interesting, my Frisian ancestor (1/32) was from Drachten too! (I don't see you in my relative list though).

Elske
02-19-2021, 12:06 PM
Interesting, my Frisian ancestor (1/32) was from Drachten too! (I don't see you in my relative list though).

Really? 3 forum-members with ancestors from Drachten...and it used to be such a small village. What are the odds? :biggrin1:

Pylsteen
02-19-2021, 12:24 PM
Really? 3 forum-members with ancestors from Drachten...and it used to be such a small village. What are the odds? :biggrin1:

A ship brings one far away :-) (to South Holland in this case). I don't know a lot about this line, many of them somehow do not appear in the baptism records, maybe they were mennonites.

Finn
02-19-2021, 12:50 PM
Really? 3 forum-members with ancestors from Drachten...and it used to be such a small village. What are the odds? :biggrin1:

Peat bogs have floating folk....

Elske
02-19-2021, 12:59 PM
That's possible, or maybe they were heathens... :D It's a pity that you don't know more about that line. I have the same issue with a few of my lines. They go back to the 18th century, but there are no records from before that time.

I would be so homesick in South Holland haha. I love traveling, but I'm always so happy when I go back home.

Elske
02-19-2021, 01:02 PM
Peat bogs have floating folk....

Yes, that's true! Drachten was a peat bog village.

Finn
02-19-2021, 02:10 PM
That's possible, or maybe they were heathens... :D It's a pity that you don't know more about that line. I have the same issue with a few of my lines. They go back to the 18th century, but there are no records from before that time.

I would be so homesick in South Holland haha. I love traveling, but I'm always so happy when I go back home.

heathens in the 18th century? If they were then they married also in church etc.

Pylsteen
02-19-2021, 02:45 PM
heathens in the 18th century? If they were then they married also in church etc.

Maybe, a few of them did their confession far after marriage and let all their children be baptised at once. When I was in the archives in Leeuwarden, a helpful volunteer - an elder, very enthusiastic Frisian full of stories - said something like "skippers? Well, they married at the wellhook and that was it."

Finn
02-19-2021, 03:01 PM
Maybe, a few of them did their confession far after marriage and let all their children be baptised at once. When I was in the archives in Leeuwarden, a helpful volunteer - an elder, very enthusiastic Frisian full of stories - said something like "skippers? Well, they married at the wellhook and that was it."

North Dutch humor ;)

You mentioned anabaptist, in the 17th century they didn't show up in the reformed churches. And the peat bogs were full of mennonites....certainly in the 17th century.

Elske
02-19-2021, 07:41 PM
@Xerxez The files (DNA.land) are still processing / in progress. I'll send them an e-mail tomorrow.

I couldn't help myself and I've ordered the 23andme kit (ancestry + traits) so I'll receive 2 kits next week. 1 from Ancestry and 1 from 23andme... :biggrin1:

xerxez
02-19-2021, 09:26 PM
@Xerxez The files (DNA.land) are still processing / in progress. I'll send them an e-mail tomorrow.

I couldn't help myself and I've ordered the 23andme kit (ancestry + traits) so I'll receive 2 kits next week. 1 from Ancestry and 1 from 23andme... :biggrin1:

Thanks for these news, the comparison between the 3 kits will be interesting ^^

Elske
02-22-2021, 02:46 PM
I received the Ancestry DNA-test today. I activated the kit, I spat in the tube and I dropped it off at the post office. The returning adress was an adress in Ireland. Anyway...exciting! :biggrin1:

Elske
02-23-2021, 01:44 PM
And I received the 23andme kit this morning. I activated the test, spat in the tube and I dropped it off at the post office. So both the Ancestry kit and the 23andme kit are on their way to the lab. Now we wait... :P

Elske
03-25-2021, 08:46 PM
Thanks for these news, the comparison between the 3 kits will be interesting ^^

Hey @Xerxez

I got my 23andme results!

Friesland is at the top of my list haha. That seems very accurate to me... :biggrin1: And I know my maternal haplogroup: H5a1

What do you think?

xerxez
03-25-2021, 10:47 PM
Hey @Xerxez

I got my 23andme results!

Friesland is at the top of my list haha. That seems very accurate to me... :biggrin1: And I know my maternal haplogroup: H5a1

What do you think?

Thanks for the share ! Your 23andme ancestry results looks more relevant than Myheritage. Interestingly, you have close to zero British&Irish ancestry with 23andme while your G25 results are shifted toward British&Irish cluster. It would be interesting to compare your results with the other dutch here (Finn, Monedula, Kellebel, ...) and northern germans (celticdane, ...).

In my relatives and those of my family whose 4 great parents are born in Netherlands:

1 (ancestors from different parts of Netherlands, including Friesland) : 88% French&German, 9% Scandinavian, 1% British&Irish
2: 75% French&German, 14% Scandinavian, 2% British&Irish
3 (Groningen and Friesland) : 68% French&German, 15% Scandinavian, 9% British&Irish
4 (Limburg) : 95% French&German, 4% British&Irish
5 (Leeuwarden, Drenthe, Tinje, Zuidlaren, Friesland) : 83% F&G, 10% Scandinavian
6 (Friesland) : 79% F&G, 17% Scandinavian,

You're a little more scandinavian, than those few dutchies, including northern

What are the ancestor birthplaces of your relatives ?

For me :
United States (478)
Poland (55)
United Kingdom (49)
Germany (45)
Canada (43)
France (25)
Ireland (21)
Italy (18)
Russia (15)
Ukraine (9)
Czech Republic (9)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Sweden (8)
Mexico (8)
Switzerland (8)
Belgium (7)
Norway (7)
Finland (5)
Hungary (5)

My sister :
United States (516)
United Kingdom (64)
Canada (59)
Germany (46)
Poland (36)
Ireland (28)
France (22)
Italy (17)
Russia (15)
Mexico (11)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Ukraine (7)
Sweden (7)
Austria (6)
Lithuania (6)
Norway (6)
Czech Republic (6)
Greece (6)
Slovakia (5)

My mum :
United States (539)
United Kingdom (84)
Canada (61)
Italy (30)
France (26)
Germany (25)
Ireland (21)
Poland (12)
Hungary (9)
Russia (9)
Spain (9)
Belgium (8)
Switzerland (7)
Australia (7)
Netherlands (7)
Sweden (6)
Greece (6)
Mexico (6)
Finland (5)
Czech Republic (5)

I would be interested that you share your detailed regional breakdown ancestry. You can access to it with the process I describe in this thread : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23254-23andme-donn%E9es-r%E9gionales, french translation below:

"For those who have carried out their test on 23andme, it is possible to retrieve more precise information on the regional origins by going to search for the information in the source code of the page.

To do this, on the detailed results page, you must right click "source code of the page", then find the line including a "num_relatives" mention. Once this line is found, copy it then paste it into a document.

Here is an example below for a Flemish:

"[{" num_gp ": 28," subregion_id ":" be: flanders: 1 "," num_relatives ": 19," state ":" Flanders "}, {" num_gp ": 5," subregion_id ":" be: brussels: 1 "," num_relatives ": 3," state ":" Brussels "}]

We can deduce that this person has 19 "genetic cousins" (num_relatives = 19) from Flanders and 3 from the Brussels region.

num_gp could indicate the number of grandparents according to Tolan

This source code therefore makes it possible to retrieve more precise information compared to that displayed on its own results (regional map with a more or less strong intensity without more details) and those of people who have agreed to share their results with you (where n 'appears as the most important region but not the others).

This method is laborious but therefore seems interesting to me for obtaining more detailed information on the origins of its genetic cousins, and in particular those sharing a particular segment of your DNA. They must first have requested access to the detailed results. About one in 5 people accept in my own "DNA cousins", so out of a total of 1500 people, that leaves the prospect of having a regional variation of the results on nearly 300 members. The regional groups of 23andme seem less efficient than those of Myheritage but it is possible to extract information.

What do these results give for you and your "relatives"?

For me, not a lot of information:
be: flanders 4

My sister a little more:
be: flanders 9
en: grand_est 7
fr: auvergne_rhone_alpes 2
be: brussels 2

My mother :
be: flanders 6
fr: Hauts_de_france 5
en: occitanie 4
be: brussels 2

A Breton contact which has 85% of British & Irish, no region is specified, on the other hand it has 5 on the French & German component with obviously a predominance of Brittany:

region number of relative
en: brittany 42
fr: pays_de_la_loire 8
fr: centre_val_de_loire 4
fr: Hauts_de_france 6
fr: ile_de_france 6

And an example of aggregation of results for 5 people sharing a segment in common on chromosome 6 that I think is linked to a common Polish or German ancestor:

region number of people with at least one "relative" in the region
pl: podkarpackie_voivodeship 5
from: bavaria 5
pl: masovian_voivodeship 5
from: baden_wurttemberg 4
from: north_rhine_westphalia 4
pl: lesser_poland_voivodeship 3
plu0142odz_voivodeship 3
from: lower_saxony 3
pl: greater_poland_voivodeship 3
pl: kuyavian_pomeranian_voivodeship 3
from: rhineland_palatinate 3
from: hesse 2
from: schleswig_holstein 2
pl: lublin_voivodeship 2
from: berlin 2
ru: saratov_oblast 2
from: hamburg 2
pl: podlaskie_voivodeship 2
pl: silesian_voivodeship 2
dk: north_denmark_region 1
pl: pomeranian_voivodeship 1
pl: lower_silesian_voivodeship 1
nl: north_brabant 1
ru: saint_petersburg 1
nl: north_holland 1
dk: region_of_southern_denmark 1
nl: south_holland 1
cz: south_moravian_region 1
nl: zeeland 1
pl: swietokrzyskie 1
cz: pardubice_region 1
nl: limburg 1
dk: capital_region_of_denmark 1
ni: overijssel 1
ru: chelyabinsk_oblast 1
nl: friesland 1
nl: gelderland 1
ru: tatarstan 1"

Elske
03-26-2021, 07:57 AM
Hey @xerxez

Thanks for your response. I have to work now, but I'll come back to you (with answers to your questions) tonight! :)

Elske
03-26-2021, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the share ! Your 23andme ancestry results looks more relevant than Myheritage. Interestingly, you have close to zero British&Irish ancestry with 23andme while your G25 results are shifted toward British&Irish cluster. It would be interesting to compare your results with the other dutch here (Finn, Monedula, Kellebel, ...) and northern germans (celticdane, ...).

In my relatives and those of my family whose 4 great parents are born in Netherlands:

1 (ancestors from different parts of Netherlands, including Friesland) : 88% French&German, 9% Scandinavian, 1% British&Irish
2: 75% French&German, 14% Scandinavian, 2% British&Irish
3 (Groningen and Friesland) : 68% French&German, 15% Scandinavian, 9% British&Irish
4 (Limburg) : 95% French&German, 4% British&Irish
5 (Leeuwarden, Drenthe, Tinje, Zuidlaren, Friesland) : 83% F&G, 10% Scandinavian
6 (Friesland) : 79% F&G, 17% Scandinavian,

You're a little more scandinavian, than those few dutchies, including northern

What are the ancestor birthplaces of your relatives ?

For me :
United States (478)
Poland (55)
United Kingdom (49)
Germany (45)
Canada (43)
France (25)
Ireland (21)
Italy (18)
Russia (15)
Ukraine (9)
Czech Republic (9)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Sweden (8)
Mexico (8)
Switzerland (8)
Belgium (7)
Norway (7)
Finland (5)
Hungary (5)

My sister :
United States (516)
United Kingdom (64)
Canada (59)
Germany (46)
Poland (36)
Ireland (28)
France (22)
Italy (17)
Russia (15)
Mexico (11)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Ukraine (7)
Sweden (7)
Austria (6)
Lithuania (6)
Norway (6)
Czech Republic (6)
Greece (6)
Slovakia (5)

I would be interested that you share your detailed regional breakdown ancestry. You can access to it with the process I describe in this thread : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23254-23andme-donn%E9es-r%E9gionales, french translation below:

"For those who have carried out their test on 23andme, it is possible to retrieve more precise information on the regional origins by going to search for the information in the source code of the page.

To do this, on the detailed results page, you must right click "source code of the page", then find the line including a "num_relatives" mention. Once this line is found, copy it then paste it into a document.

Here is an example below for a Flemish:

"[{" num_gp ": 28," subregion_id ":" be: flanders: 1 "," num_relatives ": 19," state ":" Flanders "}, {" num_gp ": 5," subregion_id ":" be: brussels: 1 "," num_relatives ": 3," state ":" Brussels "}]

We can deduce that this person has 19 "genetic cousins" (num_relatives = 19) from Flanders and 3 from the Brussels region.

num_gp could indicate the number of grandparents according to Tolan

This source code therefore makes it possible to retrieve more precise information compared to that displayed on its own results (regional map with a more or less strong intensity without more details) and those of people who have agreed to share their results with you (where n 'appears as the most important region but not the others).

This method is laborious but therefore seems interesting to me for obtaining more detailed information on the origins of its genetic cousins, and in particular those sharing a particular segment of your DNA. They must first have requested access to the detailed results. About one in 5 people accept in my own "DNA cousins", so out of a total of 1500 people, that leaves the prospect of having a regional variation of the results on nearly 300 members. The regional groups of 23andme seem less efficient than those of Myheritage but it is possible to extract information.

What do these results give for you and your "relatives"?

For me, not a lot of information:
be: flanders 4

My sister a little more:
be: flanders 9
en: grand_est 7
fr: auvergne_rhone_alpes 2
be: brussels 2

My mother :
be: flanders 6
fr: Hauts_de_france 5
en: occitanie 4
be: brussels 2

A Breton contact which has 85% of British & Irish, no region is specified, on the other hand it has 5 on the French & German component with obviously a predominance of Brittany:

region number of relative
en: brittany 42
fr: pays_de_la_loire 8
fr: centre_val_de_loire 4
fr: Hauts_de_france 6
fr: ile_de_france 6

And an example of aggregation of results for 5 people sharing a segment in common on chromosome 6 that I think is linked to a common Polish or German ancestor:

region number of people with at least one "relative" in the region
pl: podkarpackie_voivodeship 5
from: bavaria 5
pl: masovian_voivodeship 5
from: baden_wurttemberg 4
from: north_rhine_westphalia 4
pl: lesser_poland_voivodeship 3
plu0142odz_voivodeship 3
from: lower_saxony 3
pl: greater_poland_voivodeship 3
pl: kuyavian_pomeranian_voivodeship 3
from: rhineland_palatinate 3
from: hesse 2
from: schleswig_holstein 2
pl: lublin_voivodeship 2
from: berlin 2
ru: saratov_oblast 2
from: hamburg 2
pl: podlaskie_voivodeship 2
pl: silesian_voivodeship 2
dk: north_denmark_region 1
pl: pomeranian_voivodeship 1
pl: lower_silesian_voivodeship 1
nl: north_brabant 1
ru: saint_petersburg 1
nl: north_holland 1
dk: region_of_southern_denmark 1
nl: south_holland 1
cz: south_moravian_region 1
nl: zeeland 1
pl: swietokrzyskie 1
cz: pardubice_region 1
nl: limburg 1
dk: capital_region_of_denmark 1
ni: overijssel 1
ru: chelyabinsk_oblast 1
nl: friesland 1
nl: gelderland 1
ru: tatarstan 1"

Hello Xerxez,

The low percentage British and Irish was a surprise to me too. MyHeritage gave me 37,6% English. Family Tree DNA gave me 25% England, Scotland, Wales and 5% Ireland. Living DNA gave me 27,4% Great Britain and Ireland. And last but not least: G25 indeed puts me in the British/ Irish cluster. So, 23andme is an exception with the 0,5%. I'm not sure what to make of that...

You asked for the ancestor birthplaces of my 23andme DNA relatives:

United States (475)
Netherlands (203)
United Kingdom (61)
Canada (49)
Germany (42)
Ireland (11)
Sweden (10)
Denmark (10)
Norway (8)
Poland (7)
Japan (6)
Italy (5)
Mexico (4)
Indonesia (4)
Australia (4)
Ukraine (4)
South Africa (3)
India (3)
Spain (2)
Latvia (2)

About the source code: I don't get one, when I click on the link (detailed results page) with my right mouse button. I see emoji's, cut, copy, paste etc. I must be doing something wrong. HELP haha!

I added 2 files. Breakdown The Netherlands and Breakdown Germany.

Cheers! :beerchug:

xerxez
03-26-2021, 08:53 PM
Hello Xerxez,

The low percentage British and Irish was a surprise to me too. MyHeritage gave me 37,6% English. Family Tree DNA gave me 25% England, Scotland, Wales and 5% Ireland. Living DNA gave me 27,4% Great Britain and Ireland. And last but not least: G25 indeed puts me in the British/ Irish cluster. So, 23andme is an exception with the 0,5%. I'm not sure what to make of that...

You asked for the ancestor birthplaces of my 23andme DNA relatives:

United States (475)
Netherlands (203)
United Kingdom (61)
Canada (49)
Germany (42)
Ireland (11)
Sweden (10)
Denmark (10)
Norway (8)
Poland (7)
Japan (6)
Italy (5)
Mexico (4)
Indonesia (4)
Australia (4)
Ukraine (4)
South Africa (3)
India (3)
Spain (2)
Latvia (2)

About the source code: I don't get one, when I click on the link (detailed results page) with my right mouse button. I see emoji's, cut, copy, paste etc. I must be doing something wrong. HELP haha!

I added 2 files. Breakdown The Netherlands and Breakdown Germany.

Cheers! :beerchug:

You are lucky to have many relatives from your country not only on Myheritage but also on 23andme ! I guess the closest have north dutch surnames ?

Despite the geographical proximity of North Netherlands to Germany, you have as many relatives from Germany as me (I have 9% german ancestors). You don't have so many scandinavian relatives (contrary to Myheritage where you have lot of relatives from there). Interestingly, you don't have Belgian nor French while you had some of them on Myheritage.

I think that 23andme is more accurate with recent ancestry. This is not incompatible with the results on G25 which show older components. Your mix is close to that of the inhabitants of the British Isles.

Thanks for these screen copy. You can't get this with a right clic ? https://imgur.com/mCPoVRt

Cheers :beerchug: (white wine for me :D)

Elske
03-26-2021, 10:30 PM
You are lucky to have many relatives from your country not only on Myheritage but also on 23andme ! I guess the closest have north dutch surnames ?

Despite the geographical proximity of North Netherlands to Germany, you have as many relatives from Germany as me (I have 9% german ancestors). You don't have so many scandinavian relatives (contrary to Myheritage where you have lot of relatives from there). Interestingly, you don't have Belgian nor French while you had some of them on Myheritage.

I think that 23andme is more accurate with recent ancestry. This is not incompatible with the results on G25 which show older components. Your mix is close to that of the inhabitants of the British Isles.

Thanks for these screen copy. You can't get this with a right clic ? https://imgur.com/mCPoVRt

Cheers :beerchug: (white wine for me :D)

Yup, the closest relatives have Frisian surnames... :biggrin1:

Okay, I'm in the source code. I've been searching for num relatives twice, but I can't find it. The source code has 1362 lines. On what line is yours?

xerxez
03-26-2021, 10:35 PM
Okay, I'm in the source code. I've been searching for num relatives twice, but I can't find it. The source code has 1362 lines. On what line is yours?

To find the line to copy, search "num_relatives". Once you are on the line which contains this occurrence, copy it in à document and check all the occurrences with "num_relatives "

num_relatives and not num relatives

Elske
03-26-2021, 10:56 PM
To find the line to copy, search "num_relatives". Once you are on the line which contains this occurrence, copy it in à document and check all the occurrences with "num_relatives "

num_relatives and not num relatives

Here it comes!

NLD", "name": "Netherlands", "short_name": "Netherlands", "demonym": "Dutch", "contextual_name": "the Netherlands", "description": null, "iso3": "NLD", "iso2": "NL", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 190, "subregion_id": "nl"num_relatives": 113, "state": "Friesland"}, {"num_gp": 76, "subregion_id": "nl:south_holland:1", "num_relatives": 51, "state": "South Holland"}, {"num_gp": 64, "subregion_id": "nl:north_holland:1", "num_relatives": 40, "state": "North Holland"}, {"num_gp": 58, "subregion_id": "nl:groningen:1", "num_relatives": 46, "state": "Groningen"}, {"num_gp": 54, "subregion_id": "nl:gelderland:1", "num_relatives": 38, "state": "Gelderland"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "nl:north_brabant:1", "num_relatives": 20, "state": "North Brabant"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "nl:overijssel:1", "num_relatives": 19, "state": "Overijssel"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "nl:drenthe:1", "num_relatives": 23, "state": "Drenthe"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "nl:utrecht:1", "num_relatives": 14, "state": "Utrecht"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "nl:limburg:1", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Limburg"}], "total_num_subcountries": 12, "match_strength": 5, "is_ibd_match": true}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "DEU", "name": "Germany", "short_name": "Germany", "demonym": "German", "contextual_name": "Germany", "description": null, "iso3": "DEU", "iso2": "DE", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "de:lower_saxony:1", "num_relatives": 12, "state": "Lower Saxony"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "de:north_rhine_westphalia:1", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "North Rhine-Westphalia"}, {"num_gp": 8, "subregion_id": "de:bavaria:1", "num_relatives": 5, "state": "Bavaria"}, {"num_gp": 7, "subregion_id": "de:hesse:1", "num_relatives": 6, "state": "Hesse"}, {"num_gp": 6, "subregion_id": "de:baden_wurttemberg:1", "num_relatives": 3, "state": "Baden-W\u00fcrttemberg"}, {"num_gp": 5, "subregion_id": "de:bremen:1", "num_relatives": 2, "state": "Bremen"}, {"num_gp": 5, "subregion_id": "de:hamburg:1", "num_relatives": 3, "state": "Hamburg"}], "total_num_subcountries": 16, "match_strength": 3, "is_ibd_match": true}], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "AUT", "name": "Austria", "short_name": "Austria", "demonym": "Austrian", "contextual_name": "Austria", "description": null, "iso3": "AUT", "iso2": "AT", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 9, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "BEL", "name": "Belgium", "short_name": "Belgium", "demonym": "Belgian", "contextual_name": "Belgium", "description": null, "iso3": "BEL", "iso2": "BE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 3, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRA", "name": "France", "short_name": "France", "demonym": "French", "contextual_name": "France", "description": null, "iso3": "FRA", "iso2": "FR", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 13, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "LUX", "name": "Luxembourg", "short_name": "Luxembourg", "demonym": "Luxembourger", "contextual_name": "Luxembourg", "description": null, "iso3": "LUX", "iso2": "LU", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 3, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "CHE", "name": "Switzerland", "short_name": "Switzerland", "demonym": "Swiss", "contextual_name": "Switzerland", "description": null, "iso3": "CHE", "iso2": "CH", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "scandinavian", "hap1Length": 898764959, "hap2Length": 453777073, "hap1Percent": "15.3", "hap2Percent": "7.7", "totalLength": 1352542032, "totalPercent": "23.0", "totalProportion": 0.23, "trace_total_proportion": 0.23, "trace_total_length": 1352542032, "trace_total_percent": "23.0", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {"chr1": [[752721, 241451891]], "chr2": [[11944, 243041411]], "chr3": [[66206, 63444462]], "chr4": [[73071, 105897240]], "chr11": [[77837761, 130878093]], "chr12": [[25241297, 133801770]], "chr14": [[19108923, 103342015]]}, "hap2": {"chr5": [[14782, 180696860]], "chr8": [[170692, 137963100]], "chr10": [[131716, 135434303]]}, "label": "Scandinavian", "demonym": "Scandinavian", "parent_id": "north_european", "is_broad": false, "color": "#03749D", "highlight_countries": ["DNK", "FRO", "ISL", "NOR", "SJM", "SWE"], "ibd_countries": ["DNK", "FRO", "ISL", "NOR", "SWE"], "description": "Scandinavians owe much of their linguistic and genetic heritage to medieval North Germanic tribes who established settlements around the North Sea.", "reference_ethnicities": "Danish, Faroese, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish", "reference_population_count_prev5": 629, "reference_population_count_v5": 631, "has_population_page": true, "children": [], "isBroad": false, "forum_url": "https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussion/26194/scandinavian/", "additionalMatchingAdminAreas": 0, "countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "DNK", "name": "Denmark", "short_name": "Denmark", "demonym": "Danish", "contextual_name": "Denmark", "description": null, "iso3": "DNK", "iso2": "DK", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 5, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRO", "name": "Faroe Islands", "short_name": "Faroe Islands", "demonym": "Faroese", "contextual_name": "the Faroe Islands", "description": null, "iso3": "FRO", "iso2": "FO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "ISL", "name": "Iceland", "short_name": "Iceland", "demonym": "Icelander", "contextual_name": "Iceland", "description": null, "iso3": "ISL", "iso2": "IS", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 8, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "NOR", "name": "Norway", "short_name": "Norway", "demonym": "Norwegian", "contextual_name": "Norway", "description": null, "iso3": "NOR", "iso2": "NO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 19, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "SWE", "name": "Sweden", "short_name": "Sweden", "demonym": "Swedish", "contextual_name": "Sweden", "description": null, "iso3": "SWE", "iso2": "SE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 21, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}], "matched_countries": [], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "DNK", "name": "Denmark", "short_name": "Denmark", "demonym": "Danish", "contextual_name": "Denmark", "description": null, "iso3": "DNK", "iso2": "DK", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 5, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRO", "name": "Faroe Islands", "short_name": "Faroe Islands", "demonym": "Faroese", "contextual_name": "the Faroe Islands", "description": null, "iso3": "FRO", "iso2": "FO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "ISL", "name": "Iceland", "short_name": "Iceland", "demonym": "Icelander", "contextual_name": "Iceland", "description": null, "iso3": "ISL", "iso2": "IS", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 8, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "NOR", "name": "Norway", "short_name": "Norway", "demonym": "Norwegian", "contextual_name": "Norway", "description": null, "iso3": "NOR", "iso2": "NO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 19, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "SWE", "name": "Sweden", "short_name": "Sweden", "demonym": "Swedish", "contextual_name": "Sweden", "description": null, "iso3": "SWE", "iso2": "SE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 21, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "british_irish", "hap1Length": 19936861, "hap2Length": 9109922, "hap1Percent": "0.3", "hap2Percent": "0.2", "totalLength": 29046783, "totalPercent": "0.5", "totalProportion": 0.005, "trace_total_proportion": 0.005, "trace_total_length": 29046783, "trace_total_percent": "0.5", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {"chr12": [[1145361, 21082222]]}, "hap2": {"chr9": [[2827468, 11937390]]}, "label": "British \u0026 Irish", "demonym": "British \u0026 Irish", "parent_id": "north_european", "is_broad": false, "color": "#0495C6", "highlight_countries": ["GBR", "GGY", "IMN", "IRL"], "ibd_countries": ["GBR", "GGY", "IRL"], "description": "Descended from Celtic, Saxon, and Viking ancestors, the people of Great Britain and Ireland have left their genetic fingerprints around the world.", "reference_ethnicities": "Irish, United Kingdom", "reference_population_count_prev5": 1011, "reference_population_count_v5": 1014, "has_population_page": true, "children": [], "isBroad": false, "forum_url": "https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussion/26192/british-irish/", "additionalMatchingAdminAreas": 0, "countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "GGY", "name": "Guernsey", "short_name": "Guernsey", "demonym": "Channel Islander", "contextual_name": "Guernsey", "description": null, "iso3": "GGY", "iso2": "GG", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "IRL", "name": "Ireland", "short_name": "Ireland", "demonym": "Irish", "contextual_name": "Ireland", "description": null, "iso3": "IRL", "iso2": "IE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "GBR", "name": "United Kingdom", "short_name": "United Kingdom", "demonym": "British", "contextual_name": "the United Kingdom", "description": null, "iso3": "GBR", "iso2": "GB", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 134, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_london:2", "num_relatives": 70, "state": "Greater London"}, {"num_gp": 40, "subregion_id": "gb:merseyside:2", "num_relatives": 18, "state": "Merseyside"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_manchester:2", "num_relatives": 27, "state": "Greater Manchester"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:west_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 21, "state": "West Yorkshire"}, {"num_gp": 30, "subregion_id": "gb:glasgow_city:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Glasgow City"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "gb:lancashire:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Lancashire"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "gb:west_midlands:2", "num_relatives": 13, "state": "West Midlands"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "gb:kent:2", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "Kent"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "gb:tyne_and_wear:2", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Tyne and Wear"}, {"num_gp": 20, "subregion_id": "gb:south_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 10, "state": "South Yorkshire"}], "total_num_subcountries": 165, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}], "matched_countries": [], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "GGY", "name": "Guernsey", "short_name": "Guernsey", "demonym": "Channel Islander", "contextual_name": "Guernsey", "description": null, "iso3": "GGY", "iso2": "GG", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "IRL", "name": "Ireland", "short_name": "Ireland", "demonym": "Irish", "contextual_name": "Ireland", "description": null, "iso3": "IRL", "iso2": "IE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "GBR", "name": "United Kingdom", "short_name": "United Kingdom", "demonym": "British", "contextual_name": "the United Kingdom", "description": null, "iso3": "GBR", "iso2": "GB", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 134, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_london:2", "num_relatives": 70, "state": "Greater London"}, {"num_gp": 40, "subregion_id": "gb:merseyside:2", "num_relatives": 18, "state": "Merseyside"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_manchester:2", "num_relatives": 27, "state": "Greater Manchester"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:west_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 21, "state": "West Yorkshire"}, {"num_gp": 30, "subregion_id": "gb:glasgow_city:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Glasgow City"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "gb:lancashire:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Lancashire"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "gb:west_midlands:2", "num_relatives": 13, "state": "West Midlands"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "gb:kent:2", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "Kent"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "gb:tyne_and_wear:2", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Tyne and Wear"}, {"num_gp": 20, "subregion_id": "gb:south_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 10, "state": "South Yorkshire"}], "total_num_subcountries": 165, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "finnish", "hap1Length": 0.0, "hap2Length": 0.0, "hap1Percent": "0.0", "hap2Percent": "0.0", "totalLength": 0.0, "totalPercent": "0.0", "totalProportion": 0.0, "trace_total_proportion": 0.0, "trace_total_length": 0.0, "trace_total_percent": "0.0", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {}, "hap2": {},

Dewsloth
03-27-2021, 12:38 AM
I guess the Nordic thing is overestimated even too much wishfull thinking.
In the North Dutch case there was in the early middle ages an "Anglo-Saxon" influx from NW Germany and may be some Jutish elite migration. The Anglo-Saxon stream shows a genetic affinity with the (modern) Scandic one (and may be the indigenous people before in the North Dutch area too).
The French around the Channel and in some other places had some Saxon and later on Viking influence. But I guess this is at least 10 century's later very diluted.
Why are there so much Vicky the Viking apologetics? Ragnar wannabe something.... or?:biggrin1:

Perhaps!

These two P312>DF19>Z302 men are separated in chronology by about 3,000 years, but they don't seem radically different for all that.
One is from Oostwoud, one is ... well ... nobody knows. Maybe he was a Saxon or Frisian ;):)

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I5748
0.02355857 Norwegian
0.02409423 Icelandic
0.02440895 Irish
0.02451191 Danish
0.02470650 Shetlandic
0.02544114 Scottish
0.02549502 Swedish
0.02567693 Dutch
0.02569311 Orcadian
0.02630714 Welsh

Distance to: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR31
0.02240159 Norwegian
0.02290643 Dutch
0.02295681 Danish
0.02304767 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02341117 Afrikaner
0.02345321 Swedish
0.02382061 Welsh
0.02412413 German
0.02468599 English
0.02499629 Icelandic

xerxez
03-27-2021, 08:02 AM
Here it comes!

NLD", "name": "Netherlands", "short_name": "Netherlands", "demonym": "Dutch", "contextual_name": "the Netherlands", "description": null, "iso3": "NLD", "iso2": "NL", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 190, "subregion_id": "nl"num_relatives": 113, "state": "Friesland"}, {"num_gp": 76, "subregion_id": "nl:south_holland:1", "num_relatives": 51, "state": "South Holland"}, {"num_gp": 64, "subregion_id": "nl:north_holland:1", "num_relatives": 40, "state": "North Holland"}, {"num_gp": 58, "subregion_id": "nl:groningen:1", "num_relatives": 46, "state": "Groningen"}, {"num_gp": 54, "subregion_id": "nl:gelderland:1", "num_relatives": 38, "state": "Gelderland"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "nl:north_brabant:1", "num_relatives": 20, "state": "North Brabant"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "nl:overijssel:1", "num_relatives": 19, "state": "Overijssel"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "nl:drenthe:1", "num_relatives": 23, "state": "Drenthe"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "nl:utrecht:1", "num_relatives": 14, "state": "Utrecht"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "nl:limburg:1", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Limburg"}], "total_num_subcountries": 12, "match_strength": 5, "is_ibd_match": true}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "DEU", "name": "Germany", "short_name": "Germany", "demonym": "German", "contextual_name": "Germany", "description": null, "iso3": "DEU", "iso2": "DE", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "de:lower_saxony:1", "num_relatives": 12, "state": "Lower Saxony"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "de:north_rhine_westphalia:1", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "North Rhine-Westphalia"}, {"num_gp": 8, "subregion_id": "de:bavaria:1", "num_relatives": 5, "state": "Bavaria"}, {"num_gp": 7, "subregion_id": "de:hesse:1", "num_relatives": 6, "state": "Hesse"}, {"num_gp": 6, "subregion_id": "de:baden_wurttemberg:1", "num_relatives": 3, "state": "Baden-W\u00fcrttemberg"}, {"num_gp": 5, "subregion_id": "de:bremen:1", "num_relatives": 2, "state": "Bremen"}, {"num_gp": 5, "subregion_id": "de:hamburg:1", "num_relatives": 3, "state": "Hamburg"}], "total_num_subcountries": 16, "match_strength": 3, "is_ibd_match": true}], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "AUT", "name": "Austria", "short_name": "Austria", "demonym": "Austrian", "contextual_name": "Austria", "description": null, "iso3": "AUT", "iso2": "AT", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 9, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "BEL", "name": "Belgium", "short_name": "Belgium", "demonym": "Belgian", "contextual_name": "Belgium", "description": null, "iso3": "BEL", "iso2": "BE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 3, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRA", "name": "France", "short_name": "France", "demonym": "French", "contextual_name": "France", "description": null, "iso3": "FRA", "iso2": "FR", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 13, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "LUX", "name": "Luxembourg", "short_name": "Luxembourg", "demonym": "Luxembourger", "contextual_name": "Luxembourg", "description": null, "iso3": "LUX", "iso2": "LU", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 3, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "CHE", "name": "Switzerland", "short_name": "Switzerland", "demonym": "Swiss", "contextual_name": "Switzerland", "description": null, "iso3": "CHE", "iso2": "CH", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "scandinavian", "hap1Length": 898764959, "hap2Length": 453777073, "hap1Percent": "15.3", "hap2Percent": "7.7", "totalLength": 1352542032, "totalPercent": "23.0", "totalProportion": 0.23, "trace_total_proportion": 0.23, "trace_total_length": 1352542032, "trace_total_percent": "23.0", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {"chr1": [[752721, 241451891]], "chr2": [[11944, 243041411]], "chr3": [[66206, 63444462]], "chr4": [[73071, 105897240]], "chr11": [[77837761, 130878093]], "chr12": [[25241297, 133801770]], "chr14": [[19108923, 103342015]]}, "hap2": {"chr5": [[14782, 180696860]], "chr8": [[170692, 137963100]], "chr10": [[131716, 135434303]]}, "label": "Scandinavian", "demonym": "Scandinavian", "parent_id": "north_european", "is_broad": false, "color": "#03749D", "highlight_countries": ["DNK", "FRO", "ISL", "NOR", "SJM", "SWE"], "ibd_countries": ["DNK", "FRO", "ISL", "NOR", "SWE"], "description": "Scandinavians owe much of their linguistic and genetic heritage to medieval North Germanic tribes who established settlements around the North Sea.", "reference_ethnicities": "Danish, Faroese, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish", "reference_population_count_prev5": 629, "reference_population_count_v5": 631, "has_population_page": true, "children": [], "isBroad": false, "forum_url": "https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussion/26194/scandinavian/", "additionalMatchingAdminAreas": 0, "countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "DNK", "name": "Denmark", "short_name": "Denmark", "demonym": "Danish", "contextual_name": "Denmark", "description": null, "iso3": "DNK", "iso2": "DK", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 5, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRO", "name": "Faroe Islands", "short_name": "Faroe Islands", "demonym": "Faroese", "contextual_name": "the Faroe Islands", "description": null, "iso3": "FRO", "iso2": "FO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "ISL", "name": "Iceland", "short_name": "Iceland", "demonym": "Icelander", "contextual_name": "Iceland", "description": null, "iso3": "ISL", "iso2": "IS", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 8, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "NOR", "name": "Norway", "short_name": "Norway", "demonym": "Norwegian", "contextual_name": "Norway", "description": null, "iso3": "NOR", "iso2": "NO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 19, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "SWE", "name": "Sweden", "short_name": "Sweden", "demonym": "Swedish", "contextual_name": "Sweden", "description": null, "iso3": "SWE", "iso2": "SE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 21, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}], "matched_countries": [], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "DNK", "name": "Denmark", "short_name": "Denmark", "demonym": "Danish", "contextual_name": "Denmark", "description": null, "iso3": "DNK", "iso2": "DK", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 5, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "FRO", "name": "Faroe Islands", "short_name": "Faroe Islands", "demonym": "Faroese", "contextual_name": "the Faroe Islands", "description": null, "iso3": "FRO", "iso2": "FO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "ISL", "name": "Iceland", "short_name": "Iceland", "demonym": "Icelander", "contextual_name": "Iceland", "description": null, "iso3": "ISL", "iso2": "IS", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 8, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "NOR", "name": "Norway", "short_name": "Norway", "demonym": "Norwegian", "contextual_name": "Norway", "description": null, "iso3": "NOR", "iso2": "NO", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 19, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "SWE", "name": "Sweden", "short_name": "Sweden", "demonym": "Swedish", "contextual_name": "Sweden", "description": null, "iso3": "SWE", "iso2": "SE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 21, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "british_irish", "hap1Length": 19936861, "hap2Length": 9109922, "hap1Percent": "0.3", "hap2Percent": "0.2", "totalLength": 29046783, "totalPercent": "0.5", "totalProportion": 0.005, "trace_total_proportion": 0.005, "trace_total_length": 29046783, "trace_total_percent": "0.5", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {"chr12": [[1145361, 21082222]]}, "hap2": {"chr9": [[2827468, 11937390]]}, "label": "British \u0026 Irish", "demonym": "British \u0026 Irish", "parent_id": "north_european", "is_broad": false, "color": "#0495C6", "highlight_countries": ["GBR", "GGY", "IMN", "IRL"], "ibd_countries": ["GBR", "GGY", "IRL"], "description": "Descended from Celtic, Saxon, and Viking ancestors, the people of Great Britain and Ireland have left their genetic fingerprints around the world.", "reference_ethnicities": "Irish, United Kingdom", "reference_population_count_prev5": 1011, "reference_population_count_v5": 1014, "has_population_page": true, "children": [], "isBroad": false, "forum_url": "https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussion/26192/british-irish/", "additionalMatchingAdminAreas": 0, "countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "GGY", "name": "Guernsey", "short_name": "Guernsey", "demonym": "Channel Islander", "contextual_name": "Guernsey", "description": null, "iso3": "GGY", "iso2": "GG", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "IRL", "name": "Ireland", "short_name": "Ireland", "demonym": "Irish", "contextual_name": "Ireland", "description": null, "iso3": "IRL", "iso2": "IE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "GBR", "name": "United Kingdom", "short_name": "United Kingdom", "demonym": "British", "contextual_name": "the United Kingdom", "description": null, "iso3": "GBR", "iso2": "GB", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 134, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_london:2", "num_relatives": 70, "state": "Greater London"}, {"num_gp": 40, "subregion_id": "gb:merseyside:2", "num_relatives": 18, "state": "Merseyside"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_manchester:2", "num_relatives": 27, "state": "Greater Manchester"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:west_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 21, "state": "West Yorkshire"}, {"num_gp": 30, "subregion_id": "gb:glasgow_city:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Glasgow City"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "gb:lancashire:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Lancashire"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "gb:west_midlands:2", "num_relatives": 13, "state": "West Midlands"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "gb:kent:2", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "Kent"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "gb:tyne_and_wear:2", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Tyne and Wear"}, {"num_gp": 20, "subregion_id": "gb:south_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 10, "state": "South Yorkshire"}], "total_num_subcountries": 165, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}], "matched_countries": [], "unmatched_countries": [{"region_ibd_country_code": "GGY", "name": "Guernsey", "short_name": "Guernsey", "demonym": "Channel Islander", "contextual_name": "Guernsey", "description": null, "iso3": "GGY", "iso2": "GG", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 1, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "IRL", "name": "Ireland", "short_name": "Ireland", "demonym": "Irish", "contextual_name": "Ireland", "description": null, "iso3": "IRL", "iso2": "IE", "aggregations": [], "total_num_subcountries": 26, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}, {"region_ibd_country_code": "GBR", "name": "United Kingdom", "short_name": "United Kingdom", "demonym": "British", "contextual_name": "the United Kingdom", "description": null, "iso3": "GBR", "iso2": "GB", "aggregations": [{"num_gp": 134, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_london:2", "num_relatives": 70, "state": "Greater London"}, {"num_gp": 40, "subregion_id": "gb:merseyside:2", "num_relatives": 18, "state": "Merseyside"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:greater_manchester:2", "num_relatives": 27, "state": "Greater Manchester"}, {"num_gp": 38, "subregion_id": "gb:west_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 21, "state": "West Yorkshire"}, {"num_gp": 30, "subregion_id": "gb:glasgow_city:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Glasgow City"}, {"num_gp": 28, "subregion_id": "gb:lancashire:2", "num_relatives": 17, "state": "Lancashire"}, {"num_gp": 27, "subregion_id": "gb:west_midlands:2", "num_relatives": 13, "state": "West Midlands"}, {"num_gp": 23, "subregion_id": "gb:kent:2", "num_relatives": 15, "state": "Kent"}, {"num_gp": 21, "subregion_id": "gb:tyne_and_wear:2", "num_relatives": 11, "state": "Tyne and Wear"}, {"num_gp": 20, "subregion_id": "gb:south_yorkshire:2", "num_relatives": 10, "state": "South Yorkshire"}], "total_num_subcountries": 165, "match_strength": 0, "is_ibd_match": false}]}, {"id": "finnish", "hap1Length": 0.0, "hap2Length": 0.0, "hap1Percent": "0.0", "hap2Percent": "0.0", "totalLength": 0.0, "totalPercent": "0.0", "totalProportion": 0.0, "trace_total_proportion": 0.0, "trace_total_length": 0.0, "trace_total_percent": "0.0", "is_trace": false, "hap1": {}, "hap2": {},

Thanks a lot.

Here is an abstract below. It globally works well. Your region (Friesland) is in the first rank and differs well in volumes (113 relatives) from the following 4 regions with large volumes (between 38 and 51) including 2 neighboring regions (Groningen and North Holland), this group differing quite well from the 7 following regions with volumes between 11 and 23 which cover the rest of the Netherlands and the 2 German regions neighboring the Netherlands (Lower Saxony and North Rhine Westphalia). The regions with the smallest volumes are all German. Note that Schleswig Holstein, not so far away, does not appear.

A map of this : https://i.imgur.com/PtTwaR0.png

Region num_relatives

Friesland 113
South Holland 51
Groningen 46
North Holland 40
Gelderland 38
Drenthe 23
North Brabant 20
Overijssel 19
North Rhine-Westphalia 15
Utrecht 14
Lower Saxony 12
Limburg 11
Hesse 6
Bavaria 5
Baden-Wurtemberg 3
Hamburg 3
Bremen 2

Finn
03-27-2021, 08:18 AM
Perhaps!

These two P312>DF19>Z302 men are separated in chronology by about 3,000 years, but they don't seem radically different for all that.
One is from Oostwoud, one is ... well ... nobody knows. Maybe he was a Saxon or Frisian ;):)

Distance to: Bell_Beaker_NLD:I5748
0.02355857 Norwegian
0.02409423 Icelandic
0.02440895 Irish
0.02451191 Danish
0.02470650 Shetlandic
0.02544114 Scottish
0.02549502 Swedish
0.02567693 Dutch
0.02569311 Orcadian
0.02630714 Welsh

Distance to: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR31
0.02240159 Norwegian
0.02290643 Dutch
0.02295681 Danish
0.02304767 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02341117 Afrikaner
0.02345321 Swedish
0.02382061 Welsh
0.02412413 German
0.02468599 English
0.02499629 Icelandic

Thanks Dewsloth, indeed and I can add this from Finn mom unscaled with all the golden oldies, of course lots of Vikings, but what pops up among them BB Lech (according to Davidski this sample was an example of BB of the North Sea area).

https://i.postimg.cc/J7ph4tzJ/Schermafbeelding-2021-03-27-om-09-10-14.png (https://postimg.cc/G9sRXLYh)

Ergo, for NW Europe, already in LNBA we see a genotype that could fill in the modern genotype of the same area.

xerxez
03-27-2021, 08:28 AM
Thanks a lot.

Here is an abstract below. It globally works well. Your region (Friesland) is in the first rank and differs well in volumes (113 relatives) from the following 4 regions with large volumes (between 38 and 51) including 2 neighboring regions (Groningen and North Holland), this group differing quite well from the 7 following regions with volumes between 11 and 23 which cover the rest of the Netherlands and the 2 German regions neighboring the Netherlands (Lower Saxony and North Rhine Westphalia). The regions with the smallest volumes are all German. Note that Schleswig Holstein, not so far away, does not appear.

A map of this : https://i.imgur.com/PtTwaR0.png

Region num_relatives

Friesland 113
South Holland 51
Groningen 46
North Holland 40
Gelderland 38
Drenthe 23
North Brabant 20
Overijssel 19
North Rhine-Westphalia 15
Utrecht 14
Lower Saxony 12
Limburg 11
Hesse 6
Bavaria 5
Baden-Wurtemberg 3
Hamburg 3
Bremen 2

@Finn, if you have 23andme results, I would be interested with the comparison with Elske

Elske
03-27-2021, 08:32 AM
Thanks a lot.

Here is an abstract below. It globally works well. Your region (Friesland) is in the first rank and differs well in volumes (113 relatives) from the following 4 regions with large volumes (between 38 and 51) including 2 neighboring regions (Groningen and North Holland), this group differing quite well from the 7 following regions with volumes between 11 and 23 which cover the rest of the Netherlands and the 2 German regions neighboring the Netherlands (Lower Saxony and North Rhine Westphalia). The regions with the smallest volumes are all German. Note that Schleswig Holstein, not so far away, does not appear.

A map of this : https://i.imgur.com/PtTwaR0.png

Region num_relatives

Friesland 113
South Holland 51
Groningen 46
North Holland 40
Gelderland 38
Drenthe 23
North Brabant 20
Overijssel 19
North Rhine-Westphalia 15
Utrecht 14
Lower Saxony 12
Limburg 11
Hesse 6
Bavaria 5
Baden-Wurtemberg 3
Hamburg 3
Bremen 2

Thanks Xerxez!

According to the source code: I have quite a few relatives in Great Britain. Then why is the percentage so low?

xerxez
03-27-2021, 08:48 AM
Thanks Xerxez!

According to the source code: I have quite a few relatives in Great Britain. Then why is the percentage so low?

On that point, it looks that these numerous british relatives are not IBD matches (identity by descent meaning "Identical by descent (IBD) is a term used in genetic genealogy to describe a matching segment of DNA shared by two or more people that has been inherited from a common ancestor without any intervening recombination") contrary to those from Netherlands and Germany. In the source code, for your british relatives, there is the mention "is_ibd_match": false"

Elske
03-27-2021, 08:55 AM
On that point, it looks that these numerous british relatives are not IBD matches (identity by descent meaning "Identical by descent (IBD) is a term used in genetic genealogy to describe a matching segment of DNA shared by two or more people that has been inherited from a common ancestor without any intervening recombination") contrary to those from Netherlands and Germany. In the source code, for your british relatives, there is the mention "is_ibd_match": false"

Okay, now I understand it. Thanks for the explanation.

Elske
03-27-2021, 09:22 AM
I just received an e-mail from Ancestry. They're genotyping my DNA. Estimated date for results: april 18th. And MyHeritage is almost ready with my father's results. Status: raw data produced since march 21st.

xerxez
03-27-2021, 09:32 AM
I just received an e-mail from Ancestry. They're genotyping my DNA. Estimated date for results: april 18th. And MyHeritage is almost ready with my father's results. Status: raw data produced since march 21st.

Can't wait to see these new results ! It would be interested to ask Davidski your 23andme G25 results to see if there is a difference between Myheritage kit (it shoudn't be big)

Elske
03-27-2021, 09:38 AM
Can't wait to see these new results ! It would be interested to ask Davidski your 23andme G25 results to see if there is a difference between Myheritage kit (it shoudn't be big)

I want to use the Ancestry results for G25, but I'll send my father's file to Davidski as well.

Elske
03-29-2021, 12:00 PM
Hey @xerxez

My father's results are in:
English 85.1%
Scandinavian 6,4%
Finnish 5,1%
East European 3,4%

My results for comparison:
Scandinavian 48%
English 37,6%
North and West European 10,2%
Finnish 4,2%

I'm more Scandinavian than my father and he's more English than me haha. Angles, Saxons and Frisians I suppose. The East European was a bit of a surprise. Our shared DNA is 49,7%, so I'm definitely his daughter! :biggrin1:

My father has 5 genetic groups:
Level high:
- Netherlands (Groningen en Friesland)
- Netherlands (Friesland)

Level medium:
- Netherlands (Groningen, Drenthe and Friesland) and Germany (Lower Saxony)
- Netherlands (South Holland, North Holland, Gelderland and Utrecht)

Level low:
- Netherlands (Rotterdam)

The countries of his matches:
USA 2,071
Netherlands 1,570
Germany 445
United Kingdom 434
Denmark 184
France 182
Sweden 148
Australia 140
Canada 132
Norway 111
New Zealand 68
Switzerland 48
Belgium 35
Ireland 24
Austria 18
Spain 18
Finland 15
Czechia 10
Poland 10
South Africa 7
Ukraine 6
Italy 6
Brazil 5
Portugal 5
Hungary 5
Estonia 4
Russia 2
Greece 2
Mexico 2
Indonesia 2
Algeria 1
Luxembourg 1
South Korea 1
Malta 1
Slovakia 1
Guadeloupe 1
Angola 1
Thailand 1
Bahamas 1
Chile 1
Netherlands Antilles 1
Latvia 1
Cyprus 1
Argentina 1
Colombia 1
Croatia 1
Philippines 1
Taiwan 1
Aruba 1

The ethnicities of his matches:
English
85.1%
3,806

Scandinavian
6.4%
4,098

Finnish
5.1%
113

East European
3.4%
923

North and West European
0%
3,859

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
0%
2,481

Iberian
0%
606

Balkan
0%
510

Italian
0%
391

Baltic
0%
260

Greek and South Italian
0%
201

Mesoamerican and Andean
0%
93

Ashkenazi Jewish
0%
84

Nigerian
0%
56

Sardinian
0%
41

West Asian
0%
41

Filipino, Indonesian and Malay
0%
36

North African
0%
29

South Asian
0%
21

Chinese and Vietnamese
0%
21

Sierra Leonean
0%
19

Sephardic Jewish - North African
0%
12

Thai and Cambodian
0%
11

West African
0%
7

Kenyan
0%
7

Middle Eastern
0%
7

Polynesian
0%
6

Japanese and Korean
0%
6

Central Asian
0%
6

Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
0%
6

Papuan
0%
3

Inuit
0%
2

Mongolian
0%
1

What do you make of this? I'm curious.

Elske
03-30-2021, 04:39 PM
Can't wait to see these new results ! It would be interested to ask Davidski your 23andme G25 results to see if there is a difference between Myheritage kit (it shoudn't be big)

Hey Xerxez!

I tagged you in my previous post (my father's results) but I'm not sure if the tag worked properly... :biggrin1:

xerxez
03-30-2021, 08:23 PM
Hey Xerxez!

I tagged you in my previous post (my father's results) but I'm not sure if the tag worked properly... :biggrin1:

Great I'm gonna look that ;)

xerxez
03-30-2021, 09:34 PM
Hey @xerxez

My father's results are in:
English 85.1%
Scandinavian 6,4%
Finnish 5,1%
East European 3,4%

My results for comparison:
Scandinavian 48%
English 37,6%
North and West European 10,2%
Finnish 4,2%

I'm more Scandinavian than my father and he's more English than me haha. Angles, Saxons and Frisians I suppose. The East European was a bit of a surprise. Our shared DNA is 49,7%, so I'm definitely his daughter! :biggrin1:

My father has 5 genetic groups:
Level high:
- Netherlands (Groningen en Friesland)
- Netherlands (Friesland)

Level medium:
- Netherlands (Groningen, Drenthe and Friesland) and Germany (Lower Saxony)
- Netherlands (South Holland, North Holland, Gelderland and Utrecht)

Level low:
- Netherlands (Rotterdam)

The countries of his matches:
USA 2,071
Netherlands 1,570
Germany 445
United Kingdom 434
Denmark 184
France 182
Sweden 148
Australia 140
Canada 132
Norway 111
New Zealand 68
Switzerland 48
Belgium 35
Ireland 24
Austria 18
Spain 18
Finland 15
Czechia 10
Poland 10
South Africa 7
Ukraine 6
Italy 6
Brazil 5
Portugal 5
Hungary 5
Estonia 4
Russia 2
Greece 2
Mexico 2
Indonesia 2
Algeria 1
Luxembourg 1
South Korea 1
Malta 1
Slovakia 1
Guadeloupe 1
Angola 1
Thailand 1
Bahamas 1
Chile 1
Netherlands Antilles 1
Latvia 1
Cyprus 1
Argentina 1
Colombia 1
Croatia 1
Philippines 1
Taiwan 1
Aruba 1

The ethnicities of his matches:
English
85.1%
3,806

Scandinavian
6.4%
4,098

Finnish
5.1%
113

East European
3.4%
923

North and West European
0%
3,859

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
0%
2,481

Iberian
0%
606

Balkan
0%
510

Italian
0%
391

Baltic
0%
260

Greek and South Italian
0%
201

Mesoamerican and Andean
0%
93

Ashkenazi Jewish
0%
84

Nigerian
0%
56

Sardinian
0%
41

West Asian
0%
41

Filipino, Indonesian and Malay
0%
36

North African
0%
29

South Asian
0%
21

Chinese and Vietnamese
0%
21

Sierra Leonean
0%
19

Sephardic Jewish - North African
0%
12

Thai and Cambodian
0%
11

West African
0%
7

Kenyan
0%
7

Middle Eastern
0%
7

Polynesian
0%
6

Japanese and Korean
0%
6

Central Asian
0%
6

Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
0%
6

Papuan
0%
3

Inuit
0%
2

Mongolian
0%
1

What do you make of this? I'm curious.

Myheritage ethnic results are really not very acurate contrary to their regional modelization, which looks exactly the same as yours If I don't make a mistake.

The countries of your relatives are really similar between both of you. The slight differences are a little more British&Irish, Dutch and new world countries for his relatives, while yours are little more nordic (which is consistent with Myheritage ethnic origins but let's wait G25 results and Anglesqueville's MDS).

ElskeA ElskeFatherB B/A
Espagne 10 18 1,80
Canada 108 132 1,22
Irlande 21 24 1,14
USA 1871 2071 1,11
Australie 127 140 1,10
Nouvelle-Zélande 63 68 1,08
Pays-Bas 1465 1570 1,07
Allemagne 420 445 1,06
Grande-Bretagne 421 434 1,03
France 182 182 1,00
Norvège 112 111 0,99
Suisse 50 48 0,96
Autriche 19 18 0,95
Suède 165 148 0,90
Danemark 224 184 0,82
Belgique 44 35 0,80
Finlande 25 15 0,60

For the biggest countries, your results are close to those of Finn and his family :

Elske (Frisian dutch) Elske Father (Frisian Dutch) Finn's dad (Groningen) Finn Finn's mom (Drenthe)
USA 1871 2071 2184 1932 2529
Pays-Bas 1465 1570 1249 1359 1640
Allemagne 420 445 504 321 423
Grande-Bretagne 421 434 309 449 346
Danemark 224 184 185 147 131
France 182 182 106 101 140
Suède 165 148 158 111 121
Norvège 112 111 97 118 119

The ethnicities of his matches, again, are really close to yours. Consistent with the countries of his matches, his relatives have a little more often British&Irish and North and West European than yours

ElskeA ElskeFatherB B/A
Greek and South Italian 176 201 1,14
Baltic 229 260 1,14
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 2242 2481 1,11
Iberian 550 606 1,10
North and West European 3627 3859 1,06
East European 870 923 1,06
Balkan 482 510 1,06
English 3608 3806 1,05
Italian 374 391 1,05
Scandinavian 3944 4098 1,04
Finnish 127 113 0,89

I can update these results if you give me your updated Myheritage results

Waiting your G25 results, did you put your father's results on Gedmatch ? The good old models (Eurogenes K13, K15, K36) would already give more detailed informations

Elske
03-30-2021, 10:16 PM
Myheritage ethnic results are really not very acurate contrary to their regional modelization, which looks exactly the same as yours If I don't make a mistake.

The countries of your relatives are really similar between both of you. The slight differences are a little more British&Irish, Dutch and new world countries for his relatives, while yours are little more nordic (which is consistent with Myheritage ethnic origins but let's wait G25 results and Anglesqueville's MDS).

ElskeA ElskeFatherB B/A
Espagne 10 18 1,80
Canada 108 132 1,22
Irlande 21 24 1,14
USA 1871 2071 1,11
Australie 127 140 1,10
Nouvelle-Zélande 63 68 1,08
Pays-Bas 1465 1570 1,07
Allemagne 420 445 1,06
Grande-Bretagne 421 434 1,03
France 182 182 1,00
Norvège 112 111 0,99
Suisse 50 48 0,96
Autriche 19 18 0,95
Suède 165 148 0,90
Danemark 224 184 0,82
Belgique 44 35 0,80
Finlande 25 15 0,60

For the biggest countries, your results are close to those of Finn and his family :

Elske (Frisian dutch) Elske Father (Frisian Dutch) Finn's dad (Groningen) Finn Finn's mom (Drenthe)
USA 1871 2071 2184 1932 2529
Pays-Bas 1465 1570 1249 1359 1640
Allemagne 420 445 504 321 423
Grande-Bretagne 421 434 309 449 346
Danemark 224 184 185 147 131
France 182 182 106 101 140
Suède 165 148 158 111 121
Norvège 112 111 97 118 119

The ethnicities of his matches, again, are really close to yours. Consistent with the countries of his matches, his relatives have a little more often British&Irish and North and West European than yours

ElskeA ElskeFatherB B/A
Greek and South Italian 176 201 1,14
Baltic 229 260 1,14
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 2242 2481 1,11
Iberian 550 606 1,10
North and West European 3627 3859 1,06
East European 870 923 1,06
Balkan 482 510 1,06
English 3608 3806 1,05
Italian 374 391 1,05
Scandinavian 3944 4098 1,04
Finnish 127 113 0,89

I can update these results if you give me your updated Myheritage results

Waiting your G25 results, did you put your father's results on Gedmatch ? The good old models (Eurogenes K13, K15, K36) would already give more detailed informations

Thanks Xerxez! My father's results do look a bit different than mine. It's so interesting. I'll upload his data to GEDmatch tomorrow and I'll give you the results asap. And I'll give you my updated MyHeritage results.

I can't send my father's file to Davidski at the moment. His Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Store is currently closed. I don't know how long the store will be closed. Maybe @Generalissimo can tell us something more about that. See: https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-eurogenes-genetic-ancestry-store-is.html

I'm very curious about my father's position on Anglesqueville's MDS! :biggrin1:

xerxez
03-31-2021, 07:27 AM
Thanks Xerxez! My father's results do look a bit different than mine. It's so interesting. I'll upload his data to GEDmatch tomorrow and I'll give you the results asap. And I'll give you my updated MyHeritage results.

I can't send my father's file to Davidski at the moment. His Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Store is currently closed. I don't know how long the store will be closed. Maybe @Generalissimo can tell us something more about that. See: https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-eurogenes-genetic-ancestry-store-is.html

I'm very curious about my father's position on Anglesqueville's MDS! :biggrin1:

You already told it, but remind me the geographical origins of your father's ancestors compared to those of your mother ?

anglesqueville
03-31-2021, 08:25 AM
Elske, according to the MDS your father is slightly shifted toward Brits. I'm ready to bet that this little shift is inside the statistical variability inside the Frisian population and that there's no mystery to solve behind that.

Elske
03-31-2021, 10:58 AM
You already told it, but remind me the geographical origins of your father's ancestors compared to those of your mother ?

My mother her paper trail is Frisian (maternal grandmother) and just across the Frisian border (maternal grandfather) in Groningen: municipality Westerkwartier. That used to be Frisian territory and a lot of people in Westerkwartier still speak Frisian. My grandfather too! :D

Elske
03-31-2021, 11:20 AM
Elske, according to the MDS your father is slightly shifted toward Brits. I'm ready to bet that this little shift is inside the statistical variability inside the Frisian population and that there's no mystery to solve behind that.

I recently read (probably not new for you and other members) about the study: Y-Chromosome evidence for Anglo Saxon mass migration. They found DNA of people tested in Central England to be "indistinguishable" from that of Frisians. It fascinated me! So no mystery... :biggrin1:

Elske
03-31-2021, 01:25 PM
I can update these results if you give me your updated Myheritage results

Waiting your G25 results, did you put your father's results on Gedmatch ? The good old models (Eurogenes K13, K15, K36) would already give more detailed informations

I uploaded my father's file to GEDmatch:

K13:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.57
2 Baltic 23.36
3 West_Med 9.84
4 West_Asian 7.55
5 East_Med 3.77
6 East_Asian 1.53
7 Amerindian 1.05


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 4.269016
2 West_Scottish @ 4.390298
3 North_Dutch @ 4.721922
4 Orcadian @ 4.805002
5 Danish @ 5.152647
6 Southeast_English @ 6.046670
7 Norwegian @ 6.305975
8 Southwest_English @ 6.520194
9 North_German @ 7.179457
10 Swedish @ 9.569088
11 South_Dutch @ 11.025045
12 West_German @ 11.903914
13 North_Swedish @ 16.632416
14 French @ 16.988579
15 Austrian @ 18.077173
16 East_German @ 18.627262
17 Hungarian @ 23.048229
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 24.867514
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 25.981905
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 26.167719

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +50% West_Scottish @ 3.933212


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +25% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish @ 3.933212


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.884917
2 Danish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.929143
3 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.933212
4 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.936698
5 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.950753
6 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.961503
7 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.966740
8 Danish + Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.971858
9 Danish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.978734
10 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.983472
11 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.989577
12 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.999032
13 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.004272
14 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 4.019989
15 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.020839
16 Danish + Danish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.028355
17 North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.037500
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.059630
19 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.074045
20 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 4.077110


K15
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 40.18
2 Atlantic 28.41
3 Baltic 10.27
4 Eastern_Euro 7.06
5 West_Med 5.97
6 West_Asian 5.10
7 East_Med 1.25
8 Southeast_Asian 1.07


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 3.442402
2 North_Dutch @ 4.668075
3 West_Scottish @ 4.713841
4 Irish @ 5.223278
5 Danish @ 5.884440
6 Southeast_English @ 6.310276
7 West_Norwegian @ 6.992919
8 Southwest_English @ 7.608915
9 Norwegian @ 7.977689
10 North_German @ 8.574737
11 Swedish @ 9.293439
12 West_German @ 11.736157
13 South_Dutch @ 12.451924
14 North_Swedish @ 13.821513
15 French @ 16.848009
16 East_German @ 18.763960
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 20.625456
18 Hungarian @ 23.663465
19 Austrian @ 23.715414
20 Finnish @ 23.863049

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +50% Orcadian @ 3.255184


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.232697


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.117588
2 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.119533
3 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.232697
4 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.255184
5 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.262494
6 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.307365
7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.345372
8 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.355777
9 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.365871
10 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.383655
11 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.394149
12 Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.399544
13 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.423347
14 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.430165
15 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.442402
16 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.459666
17 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.462435
18 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.475180
19 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.480942
20 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.486911

K36:
Population
Amerindian 0.38 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.32 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 5.44 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.55 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 8.21 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 0.17 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.32 Pct
French 12.41 Pct
Iberian 12.49 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 4.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 18.19 Pct
North_Caucasian 1.59 Pct
North_Sea 22.95 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.72 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Finn
03-31-2021, 02:48 PM
My mother her paper trail is Frisian (maternal grandmother) and just across the Frisian border (maternal grandfather) in Groningen: municipality Westerkwartier. That used to be Frisian territory and a lot of people in Westerkwartier still speak Frisian. My grandfather too! :D

Correction Westerkwartier was never Frisian territory, it belonged to the Groninger Ommelanden. In the earlier middle ages the whole coastal strip of the southern North Sea coast was called Frisian. Frisian equals coastal dweller. But there has never been one "territory" let alone one kingdom. That are Romantic miracles....

What still was the case is that there was in de Nordlike Friske Wâlden and Westerkwartier some kind of religious ties and also influx.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ommelanden

Elske
03-31-2021, 06:09 PM
Correction Westerkwartier was never Frisian territory, it belonged to the Groninger Ommelanden. In the earlier middle ages the whole coastal strip of the southern North Sea coast was called Frisian. Frisian equals coastal dweller. But there has never been one "territory" let alone one kingdom. That are Romantic miracles....

What still was the case is that there was in de Nordlike Friske Wâlden and Westerkwartier some kind of religious ties and also influx.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ommelanden

The Ommelanden and Oldambt were (until the 15th century) originally Frisian. The city, Gorecht and Westerwolde were Saxon. Look at your own link and click on Westerkwartier: In the past the area was part of the historical region of Frisia. I used the word territory, but we mean the same thing! :biggrin1:

Finn
03-31-2021, 06:57 PM
The Ommelanden and Oldambt were (until the 15th century) originally Frisian. The city, Gorecht and Westerwolde were Saxon. Look at your own link and click on Westerkwartier: In the past the area was part of the historical region of Frisia. I used the word territory, but we mean the same thing! :biggrin1:

You are talking with a grown up Oldambtster (border Veenkoloniën) and historian ;) No doubt they were Frisian in the sense of coastal dwellers. But the supposed Frisian "unity" was most probably never a reality (see the work of archeologist and Frisian Johan Nicolay). The biggest change in the language in the Groninger Ommelanden, and actually also the Westerkwartier, was due to the influence of the Hanseatic legeau in which the city of Groningen was a prominent member....During the middle ages Groningen developed as a kind of of "city-state" (like Bremen or Hamburg). By the way: when I hear the language of Westerkwartier it sounds even more Saxon than my East-Groningen tongue!

xerxez
03-31-2021, 07:34 PM
I uploaded my father's file to GEDmatch:

K13:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.57
2 Baltic 23.36
3 West_Med 9.84
4 West_Asian 7.55
5 East_Med 3.77
6 East_Asian 1.53
7 Amerindian 1.05


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 4.269016
2 West_Scottish @ 4.390298
3 North_Dutch @ 4.721922
4 Orcadian @ 4.805002
5 Danish @ 5.152647
6 Southeast_English @ 6.046670
7 Norwegian @ 6.305975
8 Southwest_English @ 6.520194
9 North_German @ 7.179457
10 Swedish @ 9.569088
11 South_Dutch @ 11.025045
12 West_German @ 11.903914
13 North_Swedish @ 16.632416
14 French @ 16.988579
15 Austrian @ 18.077173
16 East_German @ 18.627262
17 Hungarian @ 23.048229
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 24.867514
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 25.981905
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 26.167719

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +50% West_Scottish @ 3.933212


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +25% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish @ 3.933212


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.884917
2 Danish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.929143
3 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.933212
4 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.936698
5 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.950753
6 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.961503
7 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.966740
8 Danish + Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.971858
9 Danish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.978734
10 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.983472
11 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.989577
12 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.999032
13 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.004272
14 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 4.019989
15 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.020839
16 Danish + Danish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.028355
17 North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.037500
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.059630
19 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.074045
20 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 4.077110


K15
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 40.18
2 Atlantic 28.41
3 Baltic 10.27
4 Eastern_Euro 7.06
5 West_Med 5.97
6 West_Asian 5.10
7 East_Med 1.25
8 Southeast_Asian 1.07


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 3.442402
2 North_Dutch @ 4.668075
3 West_Scottish @ 4.713841
4 Irish @ 5.223278
5 Danish @ 5.884440
6 Southeast_English @ 6.310276
7 West_Norwegian @ 6.992919
8 Southwest_English @ 7.608915
9 Norwegian @ 7.977689
10 North_German @ 8.574737
11 Swedish @ 9.293439
12 West_German @ 11.736157
13 South_Dutch @ 12.451924
14 North_Swedish @ 13.821513
15 French @ 16.848009
16 East_German @ 18.763960
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 20.625456
18 Hungarian @ 23.663465
19 Austrian @ 23.715414
20 Finnish @ 23.863049

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +50% Orcadian @ 3.255184


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.232697


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.117588
2 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.119533
3 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.232697
4 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.255184
5 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.262494
6 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.307365
7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.345372
8 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.355777
9 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.365871
10 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.383655
11 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.394149
12 Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.399544
13 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.423347
14 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.430165
15 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.442402
16 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.459666
17 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.462435
18 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.475180
19 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.480942
20 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.486911

K36:
Population
Amerindian 0.38 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.32 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 5.44 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.55 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 8.21 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 0.17 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.32 Pct
French 12.41 Pct
Iberian 12.49 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 4.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 18.19 Pct
North_Caucasian 1.59 Pct
North_Sea 22.95 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.72 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

On Eurogenes K13, your father is not far from you, also in "British&Irish cluster" while Finn is closer to North Dutch average : https://imgur.com/nFc7jgJ

On Eurogenes K36, this slight affinity with British&Irish islands is confirmed : https://imgur.com/YXfavNc

Elske
03-31-2021, 08:16 PM
You are talking with a grown up Oldambtster (border Veenkoloniën) and historian ;) No doubt they were Frisian in the sense of coastal dwellers. But the supposed Frisian "unity" was most probably never a reality (see the work of archeologist and Frisian Johan Nicolay). The biggest change in the language in the Groninger Ommelanden, and actually also the Westerkwartier, was due to the influence of the Hanseatic legeau in which the city of Groningen was a prominent member....During the middle ages Groningen developed as a kind of of "city-state" (like Bremen or Hamburg). By the way: when I hear the language of Westerkwartier it sounds even more Saxon than my East-Groningen tongue!

My grandfather was born in Opende. His mother was also born in Opende and his father was born and raised in De Wilp. Those are villages just across the border. Of course there are Grunnegs speaking people in Westerkwartier, but I only know Frisian speaking people in Opende, De Wilp, and in Marum haha.

Finn
03-31-2021, 08:50 PM
My grandfather was born in Opende. His mother was also born in Opende and his father was born and raised in De Wilp. Those are villages just across the border. Of course there are Grunnegs speaking people in Westerkwartier, but I only know Frisian speaking people in Opende, De Wilp, and in Marum haha.

Of course that belongs to a border position, just like somewhat northwards were a Frisian part speaks Gronings :biggrin1:
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollumerpompsters

Elske
03-31-2021, 09:07 PM
Of course that belongs to a border position, just like somewhat northwards were a Frisian part speaks Gronings :biggrin1:
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollumerpompsters

Exactly! Have you ever heard people speaking it? Kollumerpompsters sounds really weird haha... :biggrin1:

xerxez
04-02-2021, 06:20 AM
@Elske for few days, it is possible to know the regional genetic groups of your relatives on Myheritage. I would be interesting to see what it gives for your relatives with a long segment from Netherlands, UK, Germany, Denmark and France.

Elske
04-03-2021, 08:40 PM
@Elske for few days, it is possible to know the regional genetic groups of your relatives on Myheritage. I would be interesting to see what it gives for your relatives with a long segment from Netherlands, UK, Germany, Denmark and France.

Hey Xerxez. Sorry for the late response. I had a few very busy days and I wasn't much online. I only know the genetic groups of my father and his are the same as mine.

I do have the updated countries of matches and ethnicities of matches.

USA
1,974
Netherlands
1,569
United Kingdom
458
Germany
454
Denmark
236
France
196
Sweden
177
Australia
137
Norway
121
Canada
119
New Zealand
66
Switzerland
58
Belgium
49
Finland
29
Ireland
24
Austria
22
South Africa
14
Czechia
12
Spain
11
Brazil
9
Poland
8
Hungary
8
Italy
7
Russia
5
Chile
4
Faroe Islands
3
Mexico
3
Guadeloupe
2
Singapore
2
Portugal
2
Cyprus
2
Ukraine
2
Indonesia
1
Cayman Islands
1
New Caledonia
1
Iceland
1
Japan
1
Barbados
1
Algeria
1
Aruba
1
Taiwan
1
Bahamas
1
United Arab Emirates
1
Netherlands Antilles
1
Hong Kong
1
Greece
1
Estonia
1
Slovenia
1
Thailand
1
Egypt
1
South Korea
1
Romania
1
Angola
1
Malta
1

Ethnicity:
Scandinavian
48%
4,159

English
37.6%
3,802

North and West European
10.2%
3,806

Finnish
4.2%
136

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
0%
2,344

East European
0%
906

Iberian
0%
575

Balkan
0%
511

Italian
0%
385

Baltic
0%
248

Greek and South Italian
0%
184

Ashkenazi Jewish
0%
106

Mesoamerican and Andean
0%
79

Nigerian
0%
76

Filipino, Indonesian and Malay
0%
54

West Asian
0%
39

Sardinian
0%
38

North African
0%
25

Sierra Leonean
0%
24

Chinese and Vietnamese
0%
17

Thai and Cambodian
0%
16

Kenyan
0%
13

West African
0%
12

Sephardic Jewish - North African
0%
11

South Asian
0%
10

Middle Eastern
0%
7

Japanese and Korean
0%
7

Central Asian
0%
4

Polynesian
0%
4

Mongolian
0%
4

Papuan
0%
3

Inuit
0%
3

Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
0%
3

Maasai
0%
1

Ethiopian Jewish
0%
1

Somali
0%
1

xerxez
04-04-2021, 05:42 AM
Hey Xerxez. Sorry for the late response. I had a few very busy days and I wasn't much online. I only know the genetic groups of my father and his are the same as mine.

I do have the updated countries of matches and ethnicities of matches.

USA
1,974
Netherlands
1,569
United Kingdom
458
Germany
454
Denmark
236
France
196
Sweden
177
Australia
137
Norway
121
Canada
119
New Zealand
66
Switzerland
58
Belgium
49
Finland
29
Ireland
24
Austria
22
South Africa
14
Czechia
12
Spain
11
Brazil
9
Poland
8
Hungary
8
Italy
7
Russia
5
Chile
4
Faroe Islands
3
Mexico
3
Guadeloupe
2
Singapore
2
Portugal
2
Cyprus
2
Ukraine
2
Indonesia
1
Cayman Islands
1
New Caledonia
1
Iceland
1
Japan
1
Barbados
1
Algeria
1
Aruba
1
Taiwan
1
Bahamas
1
United Arab Emirates
1
Netherlands Antilles
1
Hong Kong
1
Greece
1
Estonia
1
Slovenia
1
Thailand
1
Egypt
1
South Korea
1
Romania
1
Angola
1
Malta
1

Ethnicity:
Scandinavian
48%
4,159

English
37.6%
3,802

North and West European
10.2%
3,806

Finnish
4.2%
136

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
0%
2,344

East European
0%
906

Iberian
0%
575

Balkan
0%
511

Italian
0%
385

Baltic
0%
248

Greek and South Italian
0%
184

Ashkenazi Jewish
0%
106

Mesoamerican and Andean
0%
79

Nigerian
0%
76

Filipino, Indonesian and Malay
0%
54

West Asian
0%
39

Sardinian
0%
38

North African
0%
25

Sierra Leonean
0%
24

Chinese and Vietnamese
0%
17

Thai and Cambodian
0%
16

Kenyan
0%
13

West African
0%
12

Sephardic Jewish - North African
0%
11

South Asian
0%
10

Middle Eastern
0%
7

Japanese and Korean
0%
7

Central Asian
0%
4

Polynesian
0%
4

Mongolian
0%
4

Papuan
0%
3

Inuit
0%
3

Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
0%
3

Maasai
0%
1

Ethiopian Jewish
0%
1

Somali
0%
1

Thanks a lot Elske. Actually what I asked was to know the regional genetic groups of his and your relatives with a long segment (for example more than 30 cM). I was notably curious to see what it could give for your English matches to see if they are from a particular region

Elske
04-04-2021, 09:18 AM
Thanks a lot Elske. Actually what I asked was to know the regional genetic groups of his and your relatives with a long segment (for example more than 30 cM). I was notably curious to see what it could give for your English matches to see if they are from a particular region

Thanks for your clarification. I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime I have some other new results for you: My Ancestry results. They came sooner than I expected.

Ethnicity Estimate

Germanic Europe 37%
England & Northwestern Europe 36%
Sweden 20%
Norway 7%

Additional Communities
Netherlands
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
Friesland
Groningen

Upper Midwest Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin & Illinois Border Settlers

What do you think? :biggrin1:

xerxez
04-04-2021, 01:12 PM
Thanks for your clarification. I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime I have some other new results for you: My Ancestry results. They came sooner than I expected.

Ethnicity Estimate

Germanic Europe 37%
England & Northwestern Europe 36%
Sweden 20%
Norway 7%

Additional Communities
Netherlands
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
Friesland
Groningen

Upper Midwest Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin & Illinois Border Settlers

What do you think? :biggrin1:

I don't know Ancestry models, but it seems that they are not very accurate like Myheritage and contrary to 23andme, as there is a big overlap into NW European cluster. At a more local level, they find your North dutch origins (Friesland, Groningen), like Myheritage and 23andme. Interestingly, they find that midwest usa settlers share common heritage with you

xerxez
04-04-2021, 03:45 PM
Hey Xerxez. Sorry for the late response. I had a few very busy days and I wasn't much online. I only know the genetic groups of my father and his are the same as mine.

I do have the updated countries of matches and ethnicities of matches.

USA
1,974
Netherlands
1,569
United Kingdom
458
Germany
454
Denmark
236
France
196
Sweden
177
Australia
137
Norway
121
Canada
119
New Zealand
66
Switzerland
58
Belgium
49
Finland
29
Ireland
24
Austria
22
South Africa
14
Czechia
12
Spain
11
Brazil
9
Poland
8
Hungary
8
Italy
7
Russia
5
Chile
4
Faroe Islands
3
Mexico
3
Guadeloupe
2
Singapore
2
Portugal
2
Cyprus
2
Ukraine
2
Indonesia
1
Cayman Islands
1
New Caledonia
1
Iceland
1
Japan
1
Barbados
1
Algeria
1
Aruba
1
Taiwan
1
Bahamas
1
United Arab Emirates
1
Netherlands Antilles
1
Hong Kong
1
Greece
1
Estonia
1
Slovenia
1
Thailand
1
Egypt
1
South Korea
1
Romania
1
Angola
1
Malta
1

Ethnicity:
Scandinavian
48%
4,159

English
37.6%
3,802

North and West European
10.2%
3,806

Finnish
4.2%
136

Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
0%
2,344

East European
0%
906

Iberian
0%
575

Balkan
0%
511

Italian
0%
385

Baltic
0%
248

Greek and South Italian
0%
184

Ashkenazi Jewish
0%
106

Mesoamerican and Andean
0%
79

Nigerian
0%
76

Filipino, Indonesian and Malay
0%
54

West Asian
0%
39

Sardinian
0%
38

North African
0%
25

Sierra Leonean
0%
24

Chinese and Vietnamese
0%
17

Thai and Cambodian
0%
16

Kenyan
0%
13

West African
0%
12

Sephardic Jewish - North African
0%
11

South Asian
0%
10

Middle Eastern
0%
7

Japanese and Korean
0%
7

Central Asian
0%
4

Polynesian
0%
4

Mongolian
0%
4

Papuan
0%
3

Inuit
0%
3

Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
0%
3

Maasai
0%
1

Ethiopian Jewish
0%
1

Somali
0%
1

An update :

Elske (A) Elske Father (B) B/A
Canada 119 132 1,11
Etats-Unis d'Amérique 1974 2071 1,05
Nouvelle-Zélande 66 68 1,03
Australie 137 140 1,02
Pays-Bas 1569 1570 1,00
Irlande 24 24 1,00
Allemagne 454 445 0,98
Grande-Bretagne 458 434 0,95
France 196 182 0,93
Norvège 121 111 0,92
Suède 177 148 0,84
Suisse 58 48 0,83
Autriche 22 18 0,82
Danemark 236 184 0,78
Belgique 49 35 0,71
Finlande 29 15 0,52

xerxez
04-04-2021, 03:53 PM
Thanks for your clarification. I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime I have some other new results for you: My Ancestry results. They came sooner than I expected.

Ethnicity Estimate

Germanic Europe 37%
England & Northwestern Europe 36%
Sweden 20%
Norway 7%

Additional Communities
Netherlands
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
Friesland
Groningen

Upper Midwest Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin & Illinois Border Settlers

What do you think? :biggrin1:

My half-sister in comparison (50% northern normandy, 25% lower normany/french britanny, 16% poland, 9% german) :

Sweden 23%
Scotland 23%
England & Northwestern Europe 22%
Eastern Europe and Russia 17%
Ireland 5%
France5%
Norway 2%
Germanic Europe 2%
Baltic States 1%

https://i.imgur.com/6PvyeYt.png

She doesn't have additional communities.

As I said, it's really not accurate but it allows to see approximately the large ancestral components,my half-sister is indeed East-European and NW European origins.

JFWinstone
04-04-2021, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the share ! Your 23andme ancestry results looks more relevant than Myheritage. Interestingly, you have close to zero British&Irish ancestry with 23andme while your G25 results are shifted toward British&Irish cluster. It would be interesting to compare your results with the other dutch here (Finn, Monedula, Kellebel, ...) and northern germans (celticdane, ...).

In my relatives and those of my family whose 4 great parents are born in Netherlands:

1 (ancestors from different parts of Netherlands, including Friesland) : 88% French&German, 9% Scandinavian, 1% British&Irish
2: 75% French&German, 14% Scandinavian, 2% British&Irish
3 (Groningen and Friesland) : 68% French&German, 15% Scandinavian, 9% British&Irish
4 (Limburg) : 95% French&German, 4% British&Irish
5 (Leeuwarden, Drenthe, Tinje, Zuidlaren, Friesland) : 83% F&G, 10% Scandinavian
6 (Friesland) : 79% F&G, 17% Scandinavian,

You're a little more scandinavian, than those few dutchies, including northern

What are the ancestor birthplaces of your relatives ?

For me :
United States (478)
Poland (55)
United Kingdom (49)
Germany (45)
Canada (43)
France (25)
Ireland (21)
Italy (18)
Russia (15)
Ukraine (9)
Czech Republic (9)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Sweden (8)
Mexico (8)
Switzerland (8)
Belgium (7)
Norway (7)
Finland (5)
Hungary (5)

My sister :
United States (516)
United Kingdom (64)
Canada (59)
Germany (46)
Poland (36)
Ireland (28)
France (22)
Italy (17)
Russia (15)
Mexico (11)
Spain (9)
Netherlands (8)
Ukraine (7)
Sweden (7)
Austria (6)
Lithuania (6)
Norway (6)
Czech Republic (6)
Greece (6)
Slovakia (5)

My mum :
United States (539)
United Kingdom (84)
Canada (61)
Italy (30)
France (26)
Germany (25)
Ireland (21)
Poland (12)
Hungary (9)
Russia (9)
Spain (9)
Belgium (8)
Switzerland (7)
Australia (7)
Netherlands (7)
Sweden (6)
Greece (6)
Mexico (6)
Finland (5)
Czech Republic (5)

I would be interested that you share your detailed regional breakdown ancestry. You can access to it with the process I describe in this thread : https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23254-23andme-donn%E9es-r%E9gionales, french translation below:

"For those who have carried out their test on 23andme, it is possible to retrieve more precise information on the regional origins by going to search for the information in the source code of the page.

To do this, on the detailed results page, you must right click "source code of the page", then find the line including a "num_relatives" mention. Once this line is found, copy it then paste it into a document.

Here is an example below for a Flemish:

"[{" num_gp ": 28," subregion_id ":" be: flanders: 1 "," num_relatives ": 19," state ":" Flanders "}, {" num_gp ": 5," subregion_id ":" be: brussels: 1 "," num_relatives ": 3," state ":" Brussels "}]

We can deduce that this person has 19 "genetic cousins" (num_relatives = 19) from Flanders and 3 from the Brussels region.

num_gp could indicate the number of grandparents according to Tolan

This source code therefore makes it possible to retrieve more precise information compared to that displayed on its own results (regional map with a more or less strong intensity without more details) and those of people who have agreed to share their results with you (where n 'appears as the most important region but not the others).

This method is laborious but therefore seems interesting to me for obtaining more detailed information on the origins of its genetic cousins, and in particular those sharing a particular segment of your DNA. They must first have requested access to the detailed results. About one in 5 people accept in my own "DNA cousins", so out of a total of 1500 people, that leaves the prospect of having a regional variation of the results on nearly 300 members. The regional groups of 23andme seem less efficient than those of Myheritage but it is possible to extract information.

What do these results give for you and your "relatives"?

For me, not a lot of information:
be: flanders 4

My sister a little more:
be: flanders 9
en: grand_est 7
fr: auvergne_rhone_alpes 2
be: brussels 2

My mother :
be: flanders 6
fr: Hauts_de_france 5
en: occitanie 4
be: brussels 2

A Breton contact which has 85% of British & Irish, no region is specified, on the other hand it has 5 on the French & German component with obviously a predominance of Brittany:

region number of relative
en: brittany 42
fr: pays_de_la_loire 8
fr: centre_val_de_loire 4
fr: Hauts_de_france 6
fr: ile_de_france 6

And an example of aggregation of results for 5 people sharing a segment in common on chromosome 6 that I think is linked to a common Polish or German ancestor:

region number of people with at least one "relative" in the region
pl: podkarpackie_voivodeship 5
from: bavaria 5
pl: masovian_voivodeship 5
from: baden_wurttemberg 4
from: north_rhine_westphalia 4
pl: lesser_poland_voivodeship 3
plu0142odz_voivodeship 3
from: lower_saxony 3
pl: greater_poland_voivodeship 3
pl: kuyavian_pomeranian_voivodeship 3
from: rhineland_palatinate 3
from: hesse 2
from: schleswig_holstein 2
pl: lublin_voivodeship 2
from: berlin 2
ru: saratov_oblast 2
from: hamburg 2
pl: podlaskie_voivodeship 2
pl: silesian_voivodeship 2
dk: north_denmark_region 1
pl: pomeranian_voivodeship 1
pl: lower_silesian_voivodeship 1
nl: north_brabant 1
ru: saint_petersburg 1
nl: north_holland 1
dk: region_of_southern_denmark 1
nl: south_holland 1
cz: south_moravian_region 1
nl: zeeland 1
pl: swietokrzyskie 1
cz: pardubice_region 1
nl: limburg 1
dk: capital_region_of_denmark 1
ni: overijssel 1
ru: chelyabinsk_oblast 1
nl: friesland 1
nl: gelderland 1
ru: tatarstan 1"

Interesting looking at the source code my dad gets the following.

England:

77 - Greater London
39 - Greater Manchester
25 - West Midlands
21 - South Yorkshire
20 - Merseyside
18 - West Yorkshire
10 - Nottinghamshire
12 - Kent
12 - Gloucestershire
9 - Tyne & Wear

Netherlands

8 - North Holland
9 - South Holland
8 - Friesland
3 - Groningen
6 - Utrecht

Finn
04-05-2021, 11:52 AM
Interesting looking at the source code my dad gets the following.

England:

77 - Greater London
39 - Greater Manchester
25 - West Midlands
21 - South Yorkshire
20 - Merseyside
18 - West Yorkshire
10 - Nottinghamshire
12 - Kent
12 - Gloucestershire
9 - Tyne & Wear

Netherlands

8 - North Holland
9 - South Holland
8 - Friesland
3 - Groningen
6 - Utrecht

Indeed that's a nice example JF Winstone.

And that gives me also the impression that we "over interpret" the results, there is an enormous overlap in NW Europe and especially the Dutch overlap with a broad range from France to the Scandics....

Elske
04-05-2021, 01:21 PM
I don't know Ancestry models, but it seems that they are not very accurate like Myheritage and contrary to 23andme, as there is a big overlap into NW European cluster. At a more local level, they find your North dutch origins (Friesland, Groningen), like Myheritage and 23andme. Interestingly, they find that midwest usa settlers share common heritage with you

I'm in the Germanic Europe cluster and I'm in de NW European cluster...and they're overlapping. 23andme and Ancestry give me 23% and 27% Scandinavian. Their estimates are pretty much the same, comparing to the 48% Scandinavian I got from MyHeritage. And they all found my North-Dutch heritage, with Friesland on top. So those results are very accurate. About the midwest USA settlers Ancestry has the biggest database. Maybe that's the reason why they found it. We all know about the migrations from The Netherlands / Germany to USA.

Rufus191
04-05-2021, 05:54 PM
I know, but it would be nice to have some Celtic genes haha!

I transferred the raw data from MyHeritage to FTDNA and I got the results this morning.
100% Western Europe:
Central Europe: 53%
England, Wales and Scotland: 25%
Scandinavia: 18%
Ireland: 5%

So with FTDNA I'm more Central European and less Scandinavian. And I lost Finland and I got Ireland instead. Hilarious! :P
It is a common misconception that Scotland is mostly Celtic. Most of Southern Scotland was originally part of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Bernicia, and when the Gaelic speaking Scots from the west finally conquered it, they didn't displace the original Anglo-Saxon people, nor did they replace their language. In fact it was the Anglo-Saxon based Scots language that eventually predominated over Scotland

https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/

Dewsloth
04-05-2021, 06:56 PM
Thanks for your clarification. I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime I have some other new results for you: My Ancestry results. They came sooner than I expected.

Ethnicity Estimate

Germanic Europe 37%
England & Northwestern Europe 36%
Sweden 20%
Norway 7%

Additional Communities
Netherlands
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
Friesland
Groningen

Upper Midwest Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe
South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin & Illinois Border Settlers

What do you think? :biggrin1:

Definitely north Dutch compared to my dad (who is mostly west German and British but who also often resembles south Dutch; our only non-German Y-SNP matches are from Noord-Holland but are not recent):

Dad's MyHeritage:
EUROPE
North and West European 87.5%
Ohio, Maryland, Illinois, Indiana and Pennsylvania
Germany, France (Grand Est), Austria, Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands

Ashkenazi Jewish 5.5%
Italian 4.9% (we have no known Italian or Iberian in the last 500 years...)
Iberian 2.1%

Dad's Ancestry:

Germanic Europe 37%
England & Northwestern Europe 30%
Scotland 17% (this seems excessive and may include something else masquerading as Scottish)
European Jewish 6%
Wales 5%
Norway 5% (no known Norwegian in the last 500 years)

Additional Communities
Early Connecticut & New York Settlers
From your regions: England & Northwestern Europe; Germanic Europe; Scotland
1 Possible Ancestor Story Found
Connecticut & Northeast New York Settlers

JFWinstone
04-05-2021, 11:12 PM
My dad getting Dutch matches and communities is not surprising considering he has a Dutch great grandparent. I do have some matches on Ancestry who are descendants of the Dutch community in Grand Rapids, Michigan and I've managed to link them up to our common ancestors in Friesland. Maybe that's why you're getting Upper Midwest settlers Elske?

Finn
04-06-2021, 09:20 AM
My dad getting Dutch matches and communities is not surprising considering he has a Dutch great grandparent. I do have some matches on Ancestry who are descendants of the Dutch community in Grand Rapids, Michigan and I've managed to link them up to our common ancestors in Friesland. Maybe that's why you're getting Upper Midwest settlers Elske?

My mother has, on myheritage the specific groups (published in december 2020), confidence high:
https://i.postimg.cc/fV8TDRPp/Schermafbeelding-2021-04-06-om-11-17-34.png (https://postimg.cc/fV8TDRPp)

anglesqueville
04-06-2021, 10:13 AM
I was finding it strange that I have no "genetic group" in The Netherlands before I realized what are really those "genetic groups". In fact in high confidence level, I have neither no group in France, only the Scottish group "Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire". Why this one rather than another which would include the Orkneys and Shetland, where I have my closest Scottish maternal family? Weird? Not at all. Their "genetic groups" have nothing to see with genealogical connectedness, and I'm wondering whether everyone has understood it.

Being a member of a Genetic Group means that there are genetic similarities between your DNA and that of the group’s founding mothers and fathers.

I believe it's clear. They use an algorithm of similarity, likely the same as the one used for the ethnic estimation, choosing as references the founders of the genetic groups. Nothing to see with matches. It's especially obvious in my case: the Finns are by far my largest relatives group after the USA (293 matches) and I have of course no Finnish genetic group at all.

Finn
04-06-2021, 11:44 AM
It is a common misconception that Scotland is mostly Celtic. Most of Southern Scotland was originally part of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Bernicia, and when the Gaelic speaking Scots from the west finally conquered it, they didn't displace the original Anglo-Saxon people, nor did they replace their language. In fact it was the Anglo-Saxon based Scots language that eventually predominated over Scotland

https://dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/what-is-scots/

That would make sense because in the North Dutch and especially in the Frisian case we are talking about the some Anglo-Saxon influx during the fifth and sixth century!

anglesqueville
04-06-2021, 01:21 PM
They use an algorithm of similarity, likely the same as the one used for the ethnic estimation, choosing as references the founders of the genetic groups. Nothing to see with matches. It's especially obvious in my case: the Finns are by far my largest relatives group after the USA (293 matches) and I have of course no Finnish genetic group at all.

I was wrong on this point (and I'm happy about it). Their methodology relies on micro-haplotypes. The appearance of the names of Yoav Naveh and Yaniv Erlich among the lead searchers is especially interesting. https://blog.myheritage.com/2020/12/myheritage-launches-genetic-groups/?utm_source=organic_blog&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=web&tr_funnel=web&tr_country=US&tr_creative=shared_gg&utm_content=shared_gg

edit: in fact, judging from their blog, MH is a lot more serious than I thought.

Tomenable
04-06-2021, 01:35 PM
^^^
This group is a mystery to me:

https://i.imgur.com/m0USW4j.png

Finn
04-06-2021, 01:56 PM
^^^
This group is a mystery to me:

https://i.imgur.com/m0USW4j.png

Oops Ioannes Paulus PP. II, :biggrin1:

anglesqueville
04-06-2021, 02:40 PM
^^^
This group is a mystery to me:

https://i.imgur.com/m0USW4j.png

What shows the timeline animation?

Tomenable
04-06-2021, 02:41 PM
What shows the timeline animation?

I'm not sure because I don't get this group, someone else posted the image.

altvred
04-06-2021, 02:56 PM
What shows the timeline animation?
I have no idea how their algorithm works, but looking at the big blob in the Northeast US, it's possibly the result of Italian-Polish intermarriage in America.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/49p4zfhtu1ebkn1/southitalianpol.gif?dl=1

xerxez
04-06-2021, 04:57 PM
I have no idea how their algorithm works, but looking at the big blob in the Northeast US, it's possibly the result of Italian-Polish intermarriage in America.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/49p4zfhtu1ebkn1/southitalianpol.gif?dl=1


Excellent

Rufus191
04-06-2021, 08:37 PM
That would make sense because in the North Dutch and especially in the Frisian case we are talking about the some Anglo-Saxon influx during the fifth and sixth century!
It seems like Bernicia may have been one of the earliest areas of Anglo-Saxon settlement as it may have been founded by Anglo-Saxon Roman soldiers who had been guarding Hadrian's Wall.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernicia

and Deira to the south
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deira

Whether those Anglo-Saxons actually completely pushed out the Brythonic/Pictish peoples or absorbed them I am not sure anyone knows.

Elske
04-06-2021, 08:55 PM
My dad getting Dutch matches and communities is not surprising considering he has a Dutch great grandparent. I do have some matches on Ancestry who are descendants of the Dutch community in Grand Rapids, Michigan and I've managed to link them up to our common ancestors in Friesland. Maybe that's why you're getting Upper Midwest settlers Elske?

That's possible. Your dad and I have a match on GEDmatch! :)

When I go to my MyHeritage time-line, I do see a large spot appearing in that area between 1850 and 1900.

xerxez
04-08-2021, 08:35 PM
What shows the timeline animation?

More informations on that genetic group on that link : https://www.myheritage.fr/dna/ethnicity/599935821?groupId=5347&mode=all

https://i.imgur.com/mv9tP7U.png

"Italiens et Polonais du sud de l'Italie et certains en Pologne, et leurs descendants aux États-Unis (Illinois, New York, New Jersey et Pennsylvanie)"

Most commun surnames :
Rossi
Bianchi
Gallo
Kalinowski
Kovacs