View Full Version : Epipalaeolithic Helwan, Early dispersal between Egypt and East Africa? (E-CTS10880?)

The Saite
01-22-2021, 03:02 AM
A Hardly attested Delta culture - due to the soil nature of Lower Egypt - known as Epipalaeolithic Helwan , is noted to have an appreciable evidences indicating diffusion to East Africa, as far back as the 6th millennium BC.
Being specially marked by the The Helwan lunate, a particular microlith, shaped by bifacial retouch, and sometimes found with similarly retouched bladelets. While the name is due to the first identification of it, in the surface collections at Helwan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helwan) in Egypt.

https://scontent.fjed4-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/140870026_405646740722324_6521136498219148392_n.pn g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=2tT_YoPmnYUAX9ne8XX&_nc_ht=scontent.fjed4-3.fna&oh=42fab999b35c210ceead732cadb72be2&oe=602EB968

The Culture supposedly flourished during the Pre Green-Sahara Northeast Africa, at the Northern Area of Nile Valley beginning around 9000 BC to be ended (estimated lack of finding) as soon as the Sahara turned green as per the figure's of Shirai, N.(2010), The archaeology of the first farmer-herders in Egypt chaper 2 (https://scholarlypublications.universiteitleiden.nl/handle/1887/15339).
The Helwan lunates, were however also discovered at the (Abu Madi I) site of Southern Sinai, with assemblages dated between 9,600-8,300 cal BC according to Bar-Yosef 2013, Nile Valley-Levant interactions. (https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/31887680).

Helwan lunates are extremely rare, and given their particular hafting technique, one may wonder if these were not borrowed from other, older or contemporary assemblages. Interestingly, in southern Sinai, the assemblages of the Abu Madi I site (Bar-Yosef 1985), dated to ca. 9,600-8,300 cal BC, contain el-Khiam and tanged points, as well as small rods (bipolar retouched, narrow, double pointed microliths) and a few Helwan lunates. It seems that a site that lies some 150-250 km south of any Natufian sites including those on both sides of the Jordan Rift valley retained an old tradition. Abu Madi I is also far away from the original localities at Helwan, where a couple of dozens of Helwan lunates were found in the detailed survey carried out by F. Debono in the 1930s (Schmidt 1996 and references therein).
Now the Interesting part :

To this we should also add the undated context of obsidian Helwan lunates in an assemblage retrieved in Dahlak island (Eritrea) in the Red Sea some 1,800 km south of the Nile delta (Blanc 1952). By comparison to studied shell middens with lunates, the dates at Dahlak may range from ca. 6,800 to 6,000 cal BC (Bar Yosef Mayer and Beyin 2009).

Coming back to the first Shirai's citation, the author provided a map showing the earliest finding of domestic animals in the region, and it amazingly shows the Sodmein Cave in East Desert of Egypt as one of the oldest sites in the Country dated around 6.2 Ka cal BC to be enjoying such findings. With Human remains being already found at the Cave as early as 7100 BC (Pierre M Vermeersch 2015) (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281747035_Early_and_Middle_Holocene_Human_Occupati on_of_the_Egyptian_Eastern_Desert_Sodmein_Cave). Thus reflecting a mobile Human presence in the Red sea nearby coast areas, the same coast of human presence attested as far as the Horn of Africa with similar culture. Now considering these remarks in a Genetic perspective. One may wonder if we can view the previous, as an early gradual wave of Egypt to East Africa migrations, that was carrying the later in history Pastrolists specific Y-DNA E-CTS10880 carriers perhaps? Those who likewise enjoyed a kind of high Natufian overall Ancestry.

https://scontent.fjed4-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/141280906_232810071660380_7214511790373092011_n.pn g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=aJSVbcuyze4AX8SrGfd&_nc_ht=scontent.fjed4-5.fna&oh=8733c939a425faa93bddd86edcaef282&oe=60317920

It's worth to note, that the aspects of Helwan findings was again recorded at the following Merimde culture of Lower Egypt pretty well, which is succeeded itself by Buto-Madi culture. With both representing the Lower Egyptian Predynastic of the country.

It is well established that the recorded Neolithic occupations in the delta, such as Merimde Beni Salama, date to much later times than those in the Levant. The layer with Helwan points in Merimde was dated to 4900-4500 cal BC but Eiwanger, the excavator, claims that the date is too recent due to the presence of bladelets and it would be better to view the layer as of 6th millennium BC (Shirai 2010: 320),

01-22-2021, 03:14 AM
Excellent post, you mind me using this for my group I’ll credit you

The Saite
01-22-2021, 03:25 AM
Excellent post, you mind me using this for my group I’ll credit you

Sure no problem

01-23-2021, 09:30 PM
thanks for the note looks so realistic
they people are cowboy
the remains that appeared to them in the horn of africa contain a significant proportion of the Autsomal

01-29-2021, 08:44 PM
Thanks for this.

The Saite
02-15-2021, 12:58 AM
For the record. If the E-CTS10880 lineages weren't involved at such early movements, it seems that E-Z1919* at least was likely somehow engaged in it. Also almost non existing in current East Africans. It still detected in an only few Saho individuals from Eritrea. The thing is, if Helwan is an Epipalaeolithic Delta based culture (where V22 is common) and it have ties with ages that can be very well reaching 10,000 BC with the Levant (where L618 potentially passed through before reaching Anatolia and Europe). It won't seem far-fetched hypothesizing Z1919 basal cases as participants in that supposed migratory event. The green Shara however must have altered migrations for Nile residents outside of it. Yet a scenario of Delta dwellers moving slowly west after the Northeastern coast of Egypt turned to a suitable habitated lands. Then later were forced retreating East to Delta again with desertification (bottlenecks along the way). Would explain it. That's plenty of probabilities we have here I know. But again that's all what we can do until proper aDNA from the Area is available.

02-15-2021, 01:18 AM
E-V22 is not an uncommon lineage in Horners...even those PN samples had E-V22 individuals.The Horn just needs more ethnic groups and subgroups sampled.To say E-V22 is nonexistent except in the Saho is just not accurate.

The Saite
02-15-2021, 01:28 AM
E-V22 is not an uncommon lineage in Horners...even those PN samples had E-V22 individuals.The Horn just needs more ethnic groups and subgroups sampled.To say E-V22 is nonexistent except in the Saho is just not accurate.

No worries I recognize V22 is existing in Horners, I get your point and I do know some of it's specific downstreams as well. But I doubt it came with those early movements. My previous words was meant for Z1919* (non V22 and V13 cases) in East Africa. Which was targeted for the word "extincted",since in case you didn't know. There are Z1919* rare cases in the Horn - detected also among Saho - as far as my knowledge.