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HelioSun
02-09-2021, 03:03 AM
Hello all!

I was fiddling around with some of the calculators on G25 and I came across something interesting regarding my own Ashkenazi DNA. Please keep in mind that I do not support the Khazar theory whatsoever. However, I found that I have a significant amount of ancient Turkic ancestry:


Target: HelioSun
Distance: 0.7127% / 0.00712696
17.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
15.8 TUR_Isparta_EBA
15.0 Levant_Beirut_ERoman
9.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
7.0 FRA_Grand_Est_EN_o
6.2 TKM_Parkhai_EBA
4.6 CHE_FN_steppe_contam
4.4 Levant_PPNC
4.4 SWE_LN_low_res
3.2 RUS_Petrovka_MLBA
2.8 MAR_LN
2.2 VK2020_RUS_Pskov_VA
1.8 MAR_EN
1.4 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian
1.0 Levant_Beirut_IAII
0.8 CAN_400BP
0.8 VK2020_NOR_North_VA_o2
0.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN
0.6 UKR_Trypillia
0.4 TKM_Gonur3_BA


Is this typical for Ashkenazi Jews?

K33
02-09-2021, 03:10 AM
Hello all!

I was fiddling around with some of the calculators on G25 and I came across something interesting regarding my own Ashkenazi DNA. Please keep in mind that I do not support the Khazar theory whatsoever. However, I found that I have a significant amount of ancient Turkic ancestry:



Is this typical for Ashkenazi Jews?That's likely overfitting.

You should try to limit yourself to no more than 3-5 or so populations. Using Levant_Canaanite_MBA, GRC_Mycenaean, and a North Italian or South German reference you can get good fits (<2.5%) for Ashkenazim that are much more realistic.

Not so say that there couldn't have been ANY Khazar influx into the Eastern Ashkenazim... but it's almost certainly <5%, and probably much less.

passenger
02-09-2021, 03:52 AM
Yes, if you're running your coordinates with the full spreadsheet of averages or individuals the results won't be very meaningful. For ancients, you have to select which time period you want to look at and choose your samples accordingly. Scoring "Golden Horde" is a somewhat more likely indicator of Central Asian ancestry within the past 2000 years, but it would be better to combine it with a set of Classical to Early Medieval samples. Early Bronze Age Turkmenistan doesn't tell you much. It seems to me that in this scenario it would be more reflective of ancient Persian ancestry shared by Western Jews (Ashkenazim and Sephardim).

passenger
02-09-2021, 05:17 AM
Out of curiosity, see what happens if you run your coordinates with Seabass' "Ancient Scaled Calc for Italians and Western Jews" together with Khazak Golden Horde Asian:

Berber,-0.066796211,0.134530842,-0.002222947,-0.078863,0.030337526,-0.036740211,-0.033680684,0.011052211,0.080969789,0.034481,0.009 512579,-0.007769368,0.023410211,-0.019448316,0.021572421,-0.016559684,0.000569632,-0.028804842,-0.056365632,0.012032158,-0.020812,-0.052871368,0.031778368,-0.004325211,0.007556684
Levantine,0.085673808,0.147642462,-0.053841269,-0.09126,-0.012771538,-0.031503885,-0.004980192,-0.009168308,0.010792577,0.0112425,0.005390231,-0.006801731,0.014860385,-0.000142923,-0.009792808,0.007557577,0.003008962,-0.000521346,0.001198846,0.001183269,0.001209385,0. 005450231,-0.002915269,-0.001455231,-0.002196923
Medieval_Slav,0.13175025,0.118817,0.0906035,0.0935 085,0.050394,0.03939325,0.014277,0.017711,0.001840 75,-0.036994,-0.00807875,-0.016485,0.02359975,0.02835025,0.00010175,0.01127, 0.0089965,-0.002217,0.00132,-0.00247,0.003806,-0.003524,0.00717925,-0.00247025,9.00E-05
Medieval_Germanic,0.129947833,0.1311725,0.065619,0 .061962167,0.039289333,0.020777333,0.008186,0.0085 765,0.000750167,-0.006256833,-0.003680833,0.004046333,-0.0106045,-0.006078333,0.027325,-0.001082667,-0.012495,0.002428333,0.002178667,0.006878167,0.003 265,0.008428833,-0.001972,0.0151225,0.00004
Early_Iberian,0.125106478,0.149900826,0.058338957, 0.00391813,0.063476652,-0.003055652,-0.002370522,0.002558478,0.033319565,0.05032087,-0.00398187,0.009930348,-0.023494957,-0.01565913,0.006154652,0.006790957,0.007772043,0.0 01239304,0.001284304,0.000478522,0.007806783,0.002 338739,-0.009645478,-0.01416113,-0.000197957
Italic,0.127608556,0.150298556,0.035658889,-0.012776444,0.043119111,-0.006383444,0.001357778,0.000769222,0.020793333,0. 038006222,0.00083,0.012622111,-0.019375556,-0.007401111,-0.001085667,-0.001193222,0.003071222,0.003209444,0.007542,-0.003432222,-0.000138667,0.005028444,-0.002903222,-0.002155556,-0.000146444
Silk_Road_Chinese,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0. 007095
SSA,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
East-African,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Hellenized_East-Mediterranean,0.108064971,0.150059382,-0.023614353,-0.057,0.004018735,-0.020416441,-0.000407794,-0.005246353,-0.003789676,0.020453353,0.003534382,0.002975324,-0.006562853,0.000283294,-0.010047382,-0.004238912,0.002830029,0.001322794,0.003197882,-0.004833206,-0.002470029,0.003124118,-0.001221588,0.000155971,0.000274735
Egyptian,0.046477667,0.150298333,-0.047642833,-0.1088515,-0.001077167,-0.047086,-0.015040667,-0.004153833,0.043188667,0.005193667,0.010555167,-0.014661833,0.029434833,-0.001881,0.000588,-0.003889333,-0.009126667,-0.000570167,-0.004189833,0.00865,0.005823167,0.002226,-0.001746,0.004659,-0.0030335
KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian,0.042115,-0.410274,0.09692,-0.033915,-0.084016,-0.048806,0.018801,0.029306,0.015339,0.021686,-0.023222,0.007643,-0.005054,0.017065,0.002443,-0.002387,0.007302,-0.001267,0.006411,0.02126,-0.024831,-0.015951,-0.02884,-0.001325,-0.003353

Liquid
02-09-2021, 07:47 AM
Turkified Hellenized East-Mediterranean :confused:

Target: Liquid_scaled
Distance: 4.1554% / 0.04155438 | R5P
78.6 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
7.2 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian
6.6 Medieval_Germanic
5.6 Silk_Road_Chinese
2.0 Medieval_Slav

altvred
02-09-2021, 07:57 AM
That's likely overfitting.

You should try to limit yourself to no more than 3-5 or so populations. Using Levant_Canaanite_MBA, GRC_Mycenaean, and a North Italian or South German reference you can get good fits (<2.5%) for Ashkenazim that are much more realistic.

Not so say that there couldn't have been ANY Khazar influx into the Eastern Ashkenazim... but it's almost certainly <5%, and probably much less.

Furthermore, any hypothetical central Asian admixture in Ashkenazi Jews, if it exists, IMHO is probably wholly unrelated to the Khazars.

At the time of the Khazar Khaganate's existence, the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews lived predominantly way out west, mostly around the Rhine. When we finally get Jews in Eastern Europe, it's 500 years after Sviatoslav sacked the Khazar capital, the Khazars most likely assimilated by the various subsequent Turkic tribes at this point.

We also need to keep in mind that only a tiny elite converted to Judaism, not the entire tribal confederation.

Another thing, KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian is not a good proxy for Turkic ancestry. Way too eastern, even for a Mongol (which I think he most likely was, at least ethnically).

https://i.imgur.com/NG7b0O8.png

Ajeje Brazorf
02-09-2021, 11:12 AM
Among the various components the Ashkenazi average has 1.2% East Asian/Siberian with a low of 0% and a high of 3.6%. I honestly don't know how it got into the Ashkenazites though.

Pylsteen
02-09-2021, 11:22 AM
Among the various components the Ashkenazi average has 1.2% East Asian/Siberian with a low of 0% and a high of 3.6%. I honestly don't know how it got into the Ashkenazites though.

IMO probably through medieval trade, and in combination with the mtdna M33c.

hi123
02-09-2021, 11:49 AM
TKM-Parkhai-EBA is not "Turkic", it's an ancient Iranian ancestry.

You will also find it in other Levantine communities.

Target: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
Distance: 1.2355% / 0.01235544
40.8 Levant_Beirut_ERoman
18.0 Levant_Abel_IA
10.4 Levant_PPNC
7.2 TKM_Parkhai_EBA
5.6 GRC_Helladic_EBA
3.2 TKM_Gonur3_BA
2.6 Levant_Beirut_IAII
2.6 VK2020_Faroes_VA
2.0 MKD_N
1.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
1.2 DEU_MA_o
1.2 Levant_Megiddo_IBA
1.0 TKM_Sumbar_LBA
0.6 MAR_EN
0.4 GRC_N

davit
02-09-2021, 12:01 PM
TKM-Parkhai-EBA is not "Turkic", it's an ancient Iranian ancestry.

You will also find it in other Levantine communities.

Target: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
Distance: 1.2355% / 0.01235544
40.8 Levant_Beirut_ERoman
18.0 Levant_Abel_IA
10.4 Levant_PPNC
7.2 TKM_Parkhai_EBA
5.6 GRC_Helladic_EBA
3.2 TKM_Gonur3_BA
2.6 Levant_Beirut_IAII
2.6 VK2020_Faroes_VA
2.0 MKD_N
1.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
1.2 DEU_MA_o
1.2 Levant_Megiddo_IBA
1.0 TKM_Sumbar_LBA
0.6 MAR_EN
0.4 GRC_N

Same applies to TKM_Gonur3_BA I think.

altvred
02-09-2021, 12:11 PM
Same applies to TKM_Gonur3_BA I think.

Yeah, it's all essentially neolithic Zagros farmer/pastoralist ancestry. Here's a graph created using ADMIXTOOLS that illustrates the relationship between the Bronze Age Turkmenistan samples and the early Neolithic Ganj Dareh sample found in Iran.


https://i.imgur.com/V10dt47.png


They form a clade, closest to the CHG individual from Georgia but very much separate. When looking at these ancient DNA samples, you need to take into account that the modern population is not identical to these bronze age or neolithic samples; that's especially true for central Asia.

coffeeprince
02-09-2021, 10:05 PM
Out of curiosity, see what happens if you run your coordinates with Seabass' "Ancient Scaled Calc for Italians and Western Jews" together with Khazak Golden Horde Asian:

Berber,-0.066796211,0.134530842,-0.002222947,-0.078863,0.030337526,-0.036740211,-0.033680684,0.011052211,0.080969789,0.034481,0.009 512579,-0.007769368,0.023410211,-0.019448316,0.021572421,-0.016559684,0.000569632,-0.028804842,-0.056365632,0.012032158,-0.020812,-0.052871368,0.031778368,-0.004325211,0.007556684
Levantine,0.085673808,0.147642462,-0.053841269,-0.09126,-0.012771538,-0.031503885,-0.004980192,-0.009168308,0.010792577,0.0112425,0.005390231,-0.006801731,0.014860385,-0.000142923,-0.009792808,0.007557577,0.003008962,-0.000521346,0.001198846,0.001183269,0.001209385,0. 005450231,-0.002915269,-0.001455231,-0.002196923
Medieval_Slav,0.13175025,0.118817,0.0906035,0.0935 085,0.050394,0.03939325,0.014277,0.017711,0.001840 75,-0.036994,-0.00807875,-0.016485,0.02359975,0.02835025,0.00010175,0.01127, 0.0089965,-0.002217,0.00132,-0.00247,0.003806,-0.003524,0.00717925,-0.00247025,9.00E-05
Medieval_Germanic,0.129947833,0.1311725,0.065619,0 .061962167,0.039289333,0.020777333,0.008186,0.0085 765,0.000750167,-0.006256833,-0.003680833,0.004046333,-0.0106045,-0.006078333,0.027325,-0.001082667,-0.012495,0.002428333,0.002178667,0.006878167,0.003 265,0.008428833,-0.001972,0.0151225,0.00004
Early_Iberian,0.125106478,0.149900826,0.058338957, 0.00391813,0.063476652,-0.003055652,-0.002370522,0.002558478,0.033319565,0.05032087,-0.00398187,0.009930348,-0.023494957,-0.01565913,0.006154652,0.006790957,0.007772043,0.0 01239304,0.001284304,0.000478522,0.007806783,0.002 338739,-0.009645478,-0.01416113,-0.000197957
Italic,0.127608556,0.150298556,0.035658889,-0.012776444,0.043119111,-0.006383444,0.001357778,0.000769222,0.020793333,0. 038006222,0.00083,0.012622111,-0.019375556,-0.007401111,-0.001085667,-0.001193222,0.003071222,0.003209444,0.007542,-0.003432222,-0.000138667,0.005028444,-0.002903222,-0.002155556,-0.000146444
Silk_Road_Chinese,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0. 007095
SSA,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
East-African,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Hellenized_East-Mediterranean,0.108064971,0.150059382,-0.023614353,-0.057,0.004018735,-0.020416441,-0.000407794,-0.005246353,-0.003789676,0.020453353,0.003534382,0.002975324,-0.006562853,0.000283294,-0.010047382,-0.004238912,0.002830029,0.001322794,0.003197882,-0.004833206,-0.002470029,0.003124118,-0.001221588,0.000155971,0.000274735
Egyptian,0.046477667,0.150298333,-0.047642833,-0.1088515,-0.001077167,-0.047086,-0.015040667,-0.004153833,0.043188667,0.005193667,0.010555167,-0.014661833,0.029434833,-0.001881,0.000588,-0.003889333,-0.009126667,-0.000570167,-0.004189833,0.00865,0.005823167,0.002226,-0.001746,0.004659,-0.0030335
KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian,0.042115,-0.410274,0.09692,-0.033915,-0.084016,-0.048806,0.018801,0.029306,0.015339,0.021686,-0.023222,0.007643,-0.005054,0.017065,0.002443,-0.002387,0.007302,-0.001267,0.006411,0.02126,-0.024831,-0.015951,-0.02884,-0.001325,-0.003353

Distance: 2.7777% / 0.02777710
50.8 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
23.2 Italic
16.2 Egyptian
9.4 Berber
0.4 Silk_Road_Chinese

No Golden Horde on my end. I did get Silk Road Chinese, which is interesting. I don't normally receive any Asian mixture on G25 calcs.

passenger
02-09-2021, 10:31 PM
Distance: 2.7777% / 0.02777710
50.8 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
23.2 Italic
16.2 Egyptian
9.4 Berber
0.4 Silk_Road_Chinese

No Golden Horde on my end. I did get Silk Road Chinese, which is interesting. I don't normally receive any Asian mixture on G25 calcs.

Just an experiment. I noticed that the Ashkenazi G25 averages score an average of 1.2% Golden Horde Asian using that set of samples. Mostly I think it just replaces the "Silk Road Chinese", so the source is probably mostly the same, and not necessarily Central Asian, as others have pointed out. But it's interesting to me that it's the one Asian population that fairly consistently works for my mom, even though she doesn't get "Silk Road" in this calculator, and she very rarely scores any type of East Asian.

DFSTFD
02-09-2021, 11:11 PM
"Silk Road Chinese" has 0 distance to Dai so that's what it is. In the Ashkenazi groups included in G25 (https://imgur.com/a/v8PN6ki), it's the Eastern European ones who consistently slightly shift towards East Asia compared to their closest populations as a group. The German group doesn't seem to, at least nearly as much.

passenger
02-09-2021, 11:26 PM
"Silk Road Chinese" has 0 distance to Dai so that's what it is. In the Ashkenazi groups included in G25 (https://imgur.com/a/v8PN6ki), it's the Eastern European ones who consistently slightly shift towards East Asia compared to their closest populations as a group. The German group doesn't seem to, at least nearly as much.

Yes, that was Seabass' choice, since it's his calculator. You'd have to ask him what his criteria were for that selection, but I'd guess it's related to the consistency with which that particular population appears in different models. And yes, especially on the big "Western Jews" thread (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&highlight=East+Asian) we've discussed (mostly anecdotal) evidence of trace East Asian being higher in Eastern vs. Western Ashkenazim, which would make some sense.

DFSTFD
02-09-2021, 11:30 PM
Yes, that was Seabass' choice, since it's his calculator. You'd have to ask him what his criteria were for that selection, but I'd guess it's related to the consistency with which that particular population appears in different models. And yes, especially on the big "Western Jews" thread (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&highlight=East+Asian) we've discussed (mostly anecdotal) evidence of trace East Asian being higher in Eastern vs. Western Ashkenazim, which would make some sense.

I read a good amount of that thread before but at some point I stopped trying to keep up with it lol. What's the general sense about the apparent extra EA input in eastern Ashkenazi Jews compared to western ones? Is part of it Uralic-related at all (via e.g. mixed Russian etc. populations too) or you prefer to attribute it to more southerly sources from the east, as a whole?

passenger
02-09-2021, 11:40 PM
I read a good amount of that thread before but at some point I stopped trying to keep up with it lol. What's the general sense about the apparent extra EA input in eastern Ashkenazi Jews compared to western ones? Is part of it Uralic-related at all (via e.g. mixed Russian etc. populations too) or you prefer to attribute it to more southerly sources from the east, as a whole?

I get it. It's a mammoth thread.

You might check here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture&p=576328&highlight=turkic#post576328) or here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture/page991&highlight=turkic), for example. There are different opinions and I think the jury's still out. I certainly wouldn't be the one to say which school of thought has the stronger case.

HelioSun
02-19-2021, 08:34 PM
I score >3% Golden Horde.


Target: HelioSun
Distance: 2.3360% / 0.02335989
47.0 Levantine
23.0 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
18.4 Early_Iberian
6.6 Medieval_Slav
3.2 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian
1.8 Berber

leorcooper19
02-19-2021, 10:32 PM
I score >3% Golden Horde.

What is your actual ancestry if you don't mind sharing?

passenger
02-20-2021, 04:04 AM
I score >3% Golden Horde.

Seems like a relatively high percentage. Is "Silk Road Chinese" that high if you remove "Golden Horde Asian"?

HelioSun
02-22-2021, 06:27 AM
My parents:




Target: HelioSun_Father
Distance: 2.3237% / 0.02323732
54.2 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
22.6 Levantine
8.4 Medieval_Slav
8.0 Early_Iberian
4.2 Berber
2.6 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian

Target: HelioSun_Mother
Distance: 2.7655% / 0.02765472
58.2 Levantine
24.2 Early_Iberian
8.2 Medieval_Slav
7.0 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
2.4 KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian

No Golden Horde:


Target: HelioSun_Father
Distance: 2.4387% / 0.02438687
56.4 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
20.8 Levantine
8.8 Medieval_Slav
7.2 Early_Iberian
4.6 Berber
2.2 Silk_Road_Chinese

Target: HelioSun_Mother
Distance: 2.8583% / 0.02858330
58.0 Levantine
24.0 Early_Iberian
8.6 Medieval_Slav
7.4 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
2.0 Silk_Road_Chinese

HelioSun
02-22-2021, 06:31 AM
Seems like a relatively high percentage. Is "Silk Road Chinese" that high if you remove "Golden Horde Asian"?

Target: HelioSun
Distance: 2.5528% / 0.02552850
46.4 Levantine
23.8 Hellenized_East-Mediterranean
17.8 Early_Iberian
7.4 Medieval_Slav
2.4 Silk_Road_Chinese
2.2 Berber

HelioSun
02-22-2021, 06:34 AM
What is your actual ancestry if you don't mind sharing?

I am Polish and Galician Jewish as far as I know. My dad claims that his family had papers that his family arrived in Poland 1000 years ago from Greece.

Just to note and I'm not sure if it matters, but my closest population on G25 are Yekke Jews.


Distance to: HelioSun
0.02582613 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02694831 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02776297 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.03148486 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.03267510 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.03460227 Italian_Jew
0.03497649 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.03525502 Maltese
0.03537060 Italian_Calabria
0.03645744 Greek_Kos
0.03645883 Italian_Campania
0.03780007 Romaniote_Jew
0.03786201 Sephardic_Jew
0.03818698 Greek_Crete
0.03857261 Italian_Basilicata
0.03987341 Greek_Dodecanese
0.04276007 Greek_Izmir
0.04288522 Italian_Apulia
0.04331044 Moroccan_Jew
0.04356028 Sicilian_East
0.04358514 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04425231 Sicilian_West
0.04551356 Cypriot_B
0.04581345 Greek_Laconia
0.04619363 Italian_Molise

leorcooper19
02-22-2021, 01:55 PM
I am Polish and Galician Jewish as far as I know. My dad claims that his family had papers that his family arrived in Poland 1000 years ago from Greece.

Just to note and I'm not sure if it matters, but my closest population on G25 are Yekke Jews.

Got it. So in general, looking at your G25 you mostly just look like a south-shifted EAJ. Your Asian scores (as others have said, KAZ_Golden_Horde is effectively East Asian) are more in line with Jews from Lithuania and Belarus, so given your family history you and your parents are approaching outlier territory. (In Seabass's model, the average for Polish Jews is 1.2% KAZ_G_H and 0.3% Silk Road, while the average for Litvaks is 1.3% KAZ_G_H and 0.7% Silk Road).

If you're on GEDmatch, do you mind sharing your Eurogenes K13 results?

HelioSun
02-22-2021, 04:43 PM
Got it. So in general, looking at your G25 you mostly just look like a south-shifted EAJ. Your Asian scores (as others have said, KAZ_Golden_Horde is effectively East Asian) are more in line with Jews from Lithuania and Belarus, so given your family history you and your parents are approaching outlier territory. (In Seabass's model, the average for Polish Jews is 1.2% KAZ_G_H and 0.3% Silk Road, while the average for Litvaks is 1.3% KAZ_G_H and 0.7% Silk Road).

If you're on GEDmatch, do you mind sharing your Eurogenes K13 results?

What does south shifted mean?

Here are my K13 results:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 39.64
2 West_Med 19.45
3 North_Atlantic 15.13
4 West_Asian 10.43
5 Baltic 5.45
6 Red_Sea 4.26
7 Siberian 2.19
8 Northeast_African 1.42
9 East_Asian 1.01
10 South_Asian 0.62
11 Amerindian 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 4.69
2 Ashkenazi 6.45
3 Algerian_Jewish 6.53
4 Sephardic_Jewish 6.61
5 Tunisian_Jewish 8.59
6 South_Italian 8.86
7 Libyan_Jewish 9.72
8 East_Sicilian 10.08
9 Central_Greek 11.41
10 West_Sicilian 11.6
11 Cyprian 12.94
12 Italian_Abruzzo 13.33
13 Greek_Thessaly 16.22
14 Lebanese_Muslim 16.99
15 Tuscan 17.75
16 Samaritan 17.98
17 Lebanese_Druze 18.12
18 Syrian 18.54
19 Lebanese_Christian 18.99
20 Palestinian 19.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% Italian_Jewish + 34.5% Ashkenazi @ 3.81
2 95.5% Italian_Jewish + 4.5% Mari @ 3.88
3 96.7% Italian_Jewish + 3.3% Selkup @ 3.94
4 95.4% Italian_Jewish + 4.6% Chuvash @ 3.96
5 96.6% Italian_Jewish + 3.4% Ket @ 3.97
6 96.2% Italian_Jewish + 3.8% Shors @ 4.07
7 95.1% Italian_Jewish + 4.9% Tatar @ 4.09
8 96.4% Italian_Jewish + 3.6% Hakas @ 4.09
9 96% Italian_Jewish + 4% Erzya @ 4.14
10 97.5% Italian_Jewish + 2.5% Dolgan @ 4.14
11 97.7% Italian_Jewish + 2.3% Evenki @ 4.19
12 96.9% Italian_Jewish + 3.1% Altaian @ 4.19
13 96.2% Italian_Jewish + 3.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.2
14 95.3% Italian_Jewish + 4.7% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.2
15 97.8% Italian_Jewish + 2.2% Evens @ 4.2
16 97.2% Italian_Jewish + 2.8% Tuvinian @ 4.2
17 96.4% Italian_Jewish + 3.6% East_Finnish @ 4.21
18 97.5% Italian_Jewish + 2.5% Koryak @ 4.21
19 97.6% Italian_Jewish + 2.4% Yakut @ 4.21
20 96% Italian_Jewish + 4% Southwest_Russian @ 4.24

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Italian_Jewish @ 4.370142


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Italian_Jewish @ 4.370142


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 4.103200
2 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 4.370142
3 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 4.501356
4 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.591737
5 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.656938
6 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.666773
7 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish @ 4.837403
8 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.838394
9 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.933681
10 Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.934488
11 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.950482
12 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 4.952325
13 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 4.973545
14 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + West_Sicilian @ 5.019743
15 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 5.050551
16 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish @ 5.101873
17 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.103244
18 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 5.112309
19 Ashkenazi + Cyprian + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 5.158474
20 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian @ 5.176556

leorcooper19
02-22-2021, 04:54 PM
What does south shifted mean?

Here are my K13 results:

"South shifted" effectively means that within the context of the whole Ashkenazi cluster on a PCA, you are closer to Levantine populations than European populations on average, as in a lot of PCAs north = Europe and south = Near East. If you want you can pm me your coords and I'll plot them on a PCA to give you a visual.

Wow, I can see why Ashkenazi_Germany is your closest population on G25 then. Your East_Med:West_Asia ratio is 4, which is quite high. My dad for reference has a ratio of only 2.8 between the two scores. In conclusion, you seem to be an EAJ who is definitely more Yekke-like than most except for your high East Asian, which is likely why on G25 distance your next two closest populations after Ashkenazi_Germany are Ashkenazim from Belarus and Lithuania.

HelioSun
02-22-2021, 05:09 PM
"South shifted" effectively means that within the context of the whole Ashkenazi cluster on a PCA, you are closer to Levantine populations than European populations on average, as in a lot of PCAs north = Europe and south = Near East. If you want you can pm me your coords and I'll plot them on a PCA to give you a visual.

Wow, I can see why Ashkenazi_Germany is your closest population on G25 then. Your East_Med:West_Asia ratio is 4, which is quite high. My dad for reference has a ratio of only 2.8 between the two scores. In conclusion, you seem to be an EAJ who is definitely more Yekke-like than most except for your high East Asian, which is likely why on G25 distance your next two closest populations after Ashkenazi_Germany are Ashkenazim from Belarus and Lithuania.

I PMed you.

jkotl0327
02-22-2021, 10:16 PM
I PMed you.

Hey HelioSun,
Your eurogenes k13 results follow an incredibly similar pattern to mine. I'll be pming you shortly.