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sami15
02-19-2021, 02:14 PM
U6-mtDNA In Ancient Italy

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43400&d=1613743859

U6a7a-mtDNA Sample In Roman Sardinia Labeled as "AMC001"; Published in [Marcus et al 2020] study. It is one of the results of the burials of the "Roman" era on the island of Sardinia (~ 150 AD), She is a female and her results:

--- on the mitochondrial branch (U6a7a) in northwestern Africa
--- Genetically formed from the usual (Anatolian agricultural) origins of Sardinia with the influence of "N-Iran" and "North West Africa".

Our sample here, accompanied by others, shows widespread contact and interbreeding of the male Italian islands over Northwest Africa, represented by the frequent appearance of mitochondrial elements that may link Africa in the Roman era.

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43401&d=1613743880

Study :

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6

Unfortunately, The Roman Sardinian Sample "AMC001" is not declared on mtree Y-Full, Unlike a Guanche mtDNA from Canary islands already demonstrated in it's U6a7a Tree, I hope that Moderators of Y-full mayupload that sample to see the nature of maritime contacts between coastal north west africa and italian peninsula during Roman era.

Check out:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U6a7a1/

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43402&d=1613744007

sami15
02-19-2021, 04:05 PM
From Supplementary Data 1

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43406&d=1613750688

it seems that "AMC001" is Positive on C152T, Equivalent to U6a7a1-a-mtDNA

Imesmouden
02-19-2021, 04:55 PM
Is there a BAM file? we should ask YFULL to add it to the tree

Imesmouden
02-19-2021, 04:57 PM
Is there a BAM file? we should ask YFULL to add it to the tree

i found a sample in ENA Database with the same sample name

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/SAMEA6415534

sami15
02-19-2021, 05:19 PM
i found a sample in ENA Database with the same sample name

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/SAMEA6415534

yeah that's BAM File of "AMC001"

I have tried to upload it into mtree Yfull for Several Times, but it seems that Moderators of Yfull don't accept it ?! I don't know why?

sami15
02-19-2021, 06:45 PM
if "AMC001" is Positive on U6a7a1-a-mtDNA

it may represent an ancient ancestor of Modern italians on that Mutation, I see this in mtree Yfull of U6a7a1-mtDNA

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43414&d=1613760301

Imesmouden
02-20-2021, 11:01 AM
yeah that's BAM File of "AMC001"

I have tried to upload it into mtree Yfull for Several Times, but it seems that Moderators of Yfull don't accept it ?! I don't know why?

i will try to ask them

sami15
02-20-2021, 05:30 PM
i will try to ask them

Alright

capsian
02-20-2021, 08:09 PM
U6-mtDNA In Ancient Italy

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43400&d=1613743859

U6a7a-mtDNA Sample In Roman Sardinia Labeled as "AMC001"; Published in [Marcus et al 2020] study. It is one of the results of the burials of the "Roman" era on the island of Sardinia (~ 150 AD), She is a female and her results:

--- on the mitochondrial branch (U6a7a) in northwestern Africa
--- Genetically formed from the usual (Anatolian agricultural) origins of Sardinia with the influence of "N-Iran" and "North West Africa".

Our sample here, accompanied by others, shows widespread contact and interbreeding of the male Italian islands over Northwest Africa, represented by the frequent appearance of mitochondrial elements that may link Africa in the Roman era.

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43401&d=1613743880

Study :

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6

Unfortunately, The Roman Sardinian Sample "AMC001" is not declared on mtree Y-Full, Unlike a Guanche mtDNA from Canary islands already demonstrated in it's U6a7a Tree, I hope that Moderators of Y-full mayupload that sample to see the nature of maritime contacts between coastal north west africa and italian peninsula during Roman era.

Check out:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U6a7a1/

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43402&d=1613744007

i hope this sample will be uploaded to yfull

sami15
02-22-2021, 11:10 AM
U6's mtDNA Diversity and Phylogenetic Distribution

https://static-content.springer.com/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-14-109/MediaObjects/12862_2013_Article_2608_Fig1_HTML.jpg?fbclid=IwAR3 3y7eV4lGXYQu6IrHgG4C-W30kBTl-sSJwW2YBSEyfOxMDs5_gXFoNpPk

capsian
02-22-2021, 11:44 AM
U6's mtDNA Diversity and Phylogenetic Distribution

https://static-content.springer.com/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2148-14-109/MediaObjects/12862_2013_Article_2608_Fig1_HTML.jpg?fbclid=IwAR3 3y7eV4lGXYQu6IrHgG4C-W30kBTl-sSJwW2YBSEyfOxMDs5_gXFoNpPk

this map sample mt dna U6
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1noKFDOOrJtLoDOzedwda4yPCGSk&hl=fr&ie=UTF8&msa=0&source=embed&t=m&ll=46.49933273384934%2C-9.228516000000027&spn=94.327731%2C149.414063&z=2

sami15
02-22-2021, 10:08 PM
this map sample mt dna U6
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1noKFDOOrJtLoDOzedwda4yPCGSk&hl=fr&ie=UTF8&msa=0&source=embed&t=m&ll=46.49933273384934%2C-9.228516000000027&spn=94.327731%2C149.414063&z=2

its based on Modern U6 Samples?

capsian
02-27-2021, 11:33 AM
its based on Modern U6 Samples?

yes this sample modern

Olymp
02-27-2021, 11:56 AM
Could be a mixed person or "roman" person. Hard to tell. But interesting.

sami15
02-27-2021, 12:50 PM
Could be a mixed person or "roman" person. Hard to tell. But interesting.

She is already mixed

perhaps she represents the 2nd generation of Romanized Berbers in Roman Sardinia

capsian
02-27-2021, 11:04 PM
She is already mixed

perhaps she represents the 2nd generation of Romanized Berbers in Roman Sardinia

any peroid

Squad
02-28-2021, 04:18 AM
Im still wondering which Y-DNA haplogroups were originally associated with mtDNA U6 and M1 as well. Probably some type of IJ and C1 or even some extinct parallel F or C lines.

Whatever it is, U6 and M1 are no doubt associated with the eurasian component of IBM

IBM = east african males + eurasian females

Jatt1
02-28-2021, 06:44 AM
Im still wondering which Y-DNA haplogroups were originally associated with mtDNA U6 and M1 as well. Probably some type of IJ and C1 or even some extinct parallel F or C lines.

Whatever it is, U6 and M1 are no doubt associated with the eurasian component of IBM

IBM = east african males + eurasian females

Do you mean IJ is from east african males?

Squad
02-28-2021, 07:36 AM
Do you mean IJ is from east african males?

No not at all, from the eurasian population who got their females "stolen" by E-M35 men from East Africa

sami15
02-28-2021, 05:46 PM
any peroid

From Roman era Around (~ 150 AD),

Jatt1
02-28-2021, 11:23 PM
No not at all, from the eurasian population who got their females "stolen" by E-M35 men from East Africa

May be these E-M35 were eurasians and moved back into Africa with their families?

Squad
03-01-2021, 02:37 AM
May be these E-M35 were eurasians and moved back into Africa with their families?

E-M35 originated in East africa there is no doubt about that. Look up the whole haplogroup E phylogeny and it'll become apparent to you. E-V16, E-M329, E-V44, E-M75.

IBM are half or a little bit more Ancient North African, which is a population of clear east african derivation. Their Y-DNA is mainly M35. In the maghreb they harbored specific local variants E-L19 and E-V68

sami15
03-02-2021, 04:56 AM
yes this sample modern
alright

capsian
03-02-2021, 07:06 AM
E-M35 originated in East africa there is no doubt about that. Look up the whole haplogroup E phylogeny and it'll become apparent to you. E-V16, E-M329, E-V44, E-M75.

IBM are half or a little bit more Ancient North African, which is a population of clear east african derivation. Their Y-DNA is mainly M35. In the maghreb they harbored specific local variants E-L19 and E-V68

but E-M215 is formed in North-easr africa no Horn Africa
branch E-M215 from hoen africa not ancient

drobbah
03-02-2021, 07:10 AM
but E-M215 is formed in North-easr africa no Horn Africa
branch E-M215 from hoen africa not ancient
E-M215 probably originated in the Horn or a little bit North of the Horn in the Sudan.E-M35 on the other hand is a solid North African lineage with a massive time gap between the two lineages

Squad
03-02-2021, 07:28 AM
but E-M215 is formed in North-easr africa no Horn Africa
branch E-M215 from hoen africa not ancient

Look up E-V16

Squad
03-02-2021, 07:29 AM
E-M215 probably originated in the Horn or a little bit North of the Horn in the Sudan.E-M35 on the other hand is a solid North African lineage with a massive time gap between the two lineages

To be fair, even M35 could have coalesced in the Horn. We have to resolve kenyan L19*

Imesmouden
03-02-2021, 11:11 AM
To be fair, even M35 could have coalesced in the Horn. We have to resolve kenyan L19*

Kenyal L19* , modern samples?

capsian
03-02-2021, 11:19 AM
Kenyal L19* , modern samples?

yes modern 1 sample

Imesmouden
03-02-2021, 12:18 PM
yes modern 1 sample

Interesting

capsian
03-02-2021, 12:41 PM
Interesting

this sample positive H.g E-PF2431

Cascio
03-02-2021, 12:56 PM
I'm U6 myself.

Does anybody have anything more to say about U6 in Sardinia, or in Italy generally?:P

sami15
03-02-2021, 05:42 PM
I'm U6 myself.

Does anybody have anything more to say about U6 in Sardinia, or in Italy generally?:P

You're Like me, I'm also U6

Squad
03-02-2021, 07:45 PM
Kenyal L19* , modern samples?

Very interesting haplotype that i couldn't not classify as either M81 or PF2431

sami15
03-06-2021, 06:07 AM
Map of U6a mtDNA Distribution

Study : (Early Holocenic and Historic mtDNA African Signatures in the Iberian Peninsula: The Andalusian Region as a Paradigm).

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43711&d=1615010784

Squad
03-06-2021, 08:03 AM
this sample positive H.g E-PF2431

Source?

Plus I've been wondering why you named yourself Capsian, south moroccan Berbers barely have any capsian ancestry as far as I know haha

Imesmouden
03-06-2021, 11:10 AM
Source?

Plus I've been wondering why you named yourself Capsian, south moroccan Berbers barely have any capsian ancestry as far as I know haha

how do you modelise capsian ancestry?

maroco
03-06-2021, 11:35 AM
how do you modelise capsian ancestry?

You can’t we have no capsian samples from North Africa, there is someone in the midst of studying and analysing them but this whole pandemic has halted there work. I tried contacting the person but no reply. If I had to guess they most likely have natufain and ibm admixture

davit
03-06-2021, 12:07 PM
You can’t we have no capsian samples from North Africa, there is someone in the midst of studying and analysing them but this whole pandemic has halted there work. I tried contacting the person but no reply. If I had to guess they most likely have natufain and ibm admixture

Unfortunate.

Imesmouden
03-06-2021, 12:15 PM
You can’t we have no capsian samples from North Africa, there is someone in the midst of studying and analysing them but this whole pandemic has halted there work. I tried contacting the person but no reply. If I had to guess they most likely have natufain and ibm admixture

Yes thats what i meant

Imesmouden
03-06-2021, 12:17 PM
You can’t we have no capsian samples from North Africa, there is someone in the midst of studying and analysing them but this whole pandemic has halted there work. I tried contacting the person but no reply. If I had to guess they most likely have natufain and ibm admixture

for the natufian do you mean natufian like or literally natufian?

capsian
03-06-2021, 12:41 PM
Source?

Plus I've been wondering why you named yourself Capsian, south moroccan Berbers barely have any capsian ancestry as far as I know haha

sample frpm kenya it s Negative E-M81 and positive E-V257 * (aka E-PF2431)

capsian
03-06-2021, 12:48 PM
Map of U6a mtDNA Distribution

Study : (Early Holocenic and Historic mtDNA African Signatures in the Iberian Peninsula: The Andalusian Region as a Paradigm).

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43711&d=1615010784

why mt dna U6 and M1 become it s a small ratio in its original areas

Imesmouden
03-06-2021, 01:56 PM
sample frpm kenya it s Negative E-M81 and positive E-V257 * (aka E-PF2431)

Like in 23andme results , all the E-V257* are E-PF2431

capsian
03-06-2021, 02:01 PM
Like in 23andme results , all the E-V257* are E-PF2431

yes exactly

Squad
03-06-2021, 03:04 PM
sample frpm kenya it s Negative E-M81 and positive E-V257 * (aka E-PF2431)

Lol no bro. V257* does not mean PF2431. It is possible that it is one of the 4 possibilities below :

It forms a clade with M81
It forms a clade with PF2431
It forms a clade against M81+PF2431
It forms a third branch within L19

Imesmouden
03-06-2021, 04:25 PM
Lol no bro. V257* does not mean PF2431. It is possible that it is one of the 4 possibilities below :

It forms a clade with M81
It forms a clade with PF2431
It forms a clade against M81+PF2431
It forms a third branch within L19

Actually all the v257* i saw in 23andme were PF2431

Squad
03-06-2021, 09:51 PM
Actually all the v257* i saw in 23andme were PF2431

It's because PF2431 accounts for almost all L19 that are not M81. It doesn't mean that this isolated kenyan cluster can't be L19(xM81, xPF2431)

sami15
03-07-2021, 12:38 AM
why mt dna U6 and M1 become it s a small ratio in its original areas

which original area's you mean?

capsian
03-07-2021, 01:04 AM
which original area's you mean?

north africa

Imesmouden
03-07-2021, 11:17 AM
It's because PF2431 accounts for almost all L19 that are not M81. It doesn't mean that this isolated kenyan cluster can't be L19(xM81, xPF2431)

Yes but there is a high chance that it's E-PF2431 , like in the case of sample ERS2065737

Squad
03-08-2021, 01:51 AM
Yes but there is a high chance that it's E-PF2431 , like in the case of sample ERS2065737

The haplotype is clearly far from PF2431, unless PF2431 is an early SNP in the trail of SNPs that led to the TMRCA of the subclade, in which case it would significantly increase the age.

sami15
03-08-2021, 01:58 PM
north africa

alright

drobbah
03-08-2021, 02:02 PM
sample frpm kenya it s Negative E-M81 and positive E-V257 * (aka E-PF2431)
Which ethnic group does he belong too? That lineage was probably brought recently by a Berber immigrant

capsian
03-08-2021, 07:43 PM
Which ethnic group does he belong too? That lineage was probably brought recently by a Berber immigrant

ethnic group Borana

Squad
03-09-2021, 12:44 AM
Which ethnic group does he belong too? That lineage was probably brought recently by a Berber immigrant

Bro the haplotype is very unique I've never seen anything like it in more than thousands and thousands of samples from North Africa and other regions

drobbah
03-09-2021, 12:47 AM
Bro the haplotype is very unique I've never seen anything like it in more than thousands and thousands of samples from North Africa and other regions
How do you think it got there then? The proto-Cushites?

Squad
03-09-2021, 02:17 AM
How do you think it got there then? The proto-Cushites?

Either from Egypt most likely with the proto-kushites or M35 originated in the Horn. Thr sample has to be further analyzed. It may push back the TMRCA of either M81, PF2431 or even L19 as a whole.

drobbah
03-09-2021, 03:53 AM
Either from Egypt most likely with the proto-kushites or M35 originated in the Horn. Thr sample has to be further analyzed. It may push back the TMRCA of either M81, PF2431 or even L19 as a whole.
The Borana could be an assimilated Ajuuraan Somali male.The Ajuuraan controlled Southern Somalia which was very cosmopolitan.I'm leaning toward a medieval Maghrebi ancestor for this Borana individual since there doesn't seem to be any evidence that this lineage arrived with the proto-cushites

Squad
03-09-2021, 05:54 AM
The Borana could be an assimilated Ajuuraan Somali male.The Ajuuraan controlled Southern Somalia which was very cosmopolitan.I'm leaning toward a medieval Maghrebi ancestor for this Borana individual since there doesn't seem to be any evidence that this lineage arrived with the proto-cushites

Fact is, this is a very unique haplotype, which would probably indicate that it's a local variant. A medieval maghrebi origin is highly unlikely, it is very deviant with no other sample in the world that belongs to this cluster. It is probably an endemic but very rare horner haplogroup.

And what's up with the somali M81 guy in the ftDNA project, any news haha?

drobbah
03-09-2021, 06:01 AM
Fact is, this is a very unique haplotype, which would probably indicate that it's a local variant. A medieval maghrebi origin is highly unlikely, it is very deviant with no other sample in the world that belongs to this cluster. It is probably an endemic but very rare horner haplogroup.

And what's up with the somali M81 guy in the ftDNA project, any news haha?
It could just be a very unique descendant of a Maghrebi, lineages associated with the Maghreb like E-M183 didn't arrive untill the medieval ages

Squad
03-09-2021, 08:18 AM
It could just be a very unique descendant of a Maghrebi, lineages associated with the Maghreb like E-M183 didn't arrive untill the medieval ages

M81 still a main Somali line but yeah it's probably medieval given M183 so young. We would know better if downstream SNPs are tested. Find that somali dude

drobbah
03-09-2021, 09:09 AM
M81 still a main Somali line but yeah it's probably medieval given M183 so young. We would know better if downstream SNPs are tested. Find that somali dude
E-M81 is not a main Somali line as it isn't found in any major (noble) clan except in those mainly foreign Ashraaf/Sheikhaal clans in the south and Ethiopia

I found two E-M183 matches on 23&me and both belonged to the Sheikhaal clan (descendants of foreign sheikhs).There goes your theory of it being a major Somali/Cushitic lineage lol

Squad
03-09-2021, 01:44 PM
E-M81 is not a main Somali line as it isn't found in any major (noble) clan except in those mainly foreign Ashraaf/Sheikhaal clans in the south and Ethiopia

I found two E-M183 matches on 23&me and both belonged to the Sheikhaal clan (descendants of foreign sheikhs).There goes your theory of it being a major Somali/Cushitic lineage lol

Never said they're a main cushite line lol. Only that it managed to have a certain presence in Somalis, not other Horners.

Of course M183 is foreign, just like P58 is as well.

Also why do you call the Sheekhals a foreign clan. Just because they claim to descend from Abu Bakr does not justify them being foreign. They're autosomally like other true somali clans. You can't call them foreigners lol.

Plus with enough samples M81 will pop up in other clans too. 3% is not insignificant at all. You claimed you were sure the samples were Benadiri, I told you I was sure they're not. Now you claim they belong to a specific clan only. I don't even know why we arguing over this, it's not like it is important as in it would changr something for you or me haha

Cascio
03-09-2021, 01:47 PM
This is all fascinating but this is a thread about mtdna U6 in ancient Italy.:\

sami15
03-30-2021, 03:46 PM
Finally, Our Roman Sardinian Sample is Included in YFULL MTREE
But from it's Study Paper, it says that she is Positive for U6a7a1-a mtDNA, But unlike that , in YULL MTREE She is Only U6a7a*-mtDNA ?


https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44080&d=1617118932&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=a57c2299a3e3d2c53becf92b620e91 f82f418c81-1617119166-0-AdLlkx8Ns7Pd19oibK7M4TAw2ktnMgqESf_MAcRCr9Vh6rBrID SQ2Ze8i-tQbE-1GkCZXMZL2mgbVjVLUCFPO7gnAmPIdtitAO6PGV3CEmmYxxGGa xlajaBkvTW_DvyIaXGQAkflVfy6AwqrWN1wjURD7Uc42gyQKGz Iy2HtO3x5_LtzaNx-Gbg03X_28v7r8w6UV7ZFajLkj00XMbh74D0gLt4f-xnIZsuqptlzthszSz0JkSaB4xyaTh6Bo1n8yY_Reuci43h9vRc T6ng_7tOKLzFc4kLlHwQD5MwN-nii6DE6I3l_BlXAq9Rr2FukdOQmbHOnVJ4UgPbWNS0EdYXq4Hp Qsh2is8XMoN-95AIHlklIeouHQiXyaAmgmn5VfOQkxzKDvnA8231eUHQ4frYmJ NmjTRx8WWMtxXa2C4JQMmlOHKUUA6QwveNFwaLxlw

Source:
https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U6a7a/

capsian
04-21-2021, 03:35 PM
https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U6a7a*/