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Jean M
03-15-2014, 05:39 PM
The Yamnaya mtDNA haplogroups published in Wilde 2014 are now in my online table: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml

They were mainly published simply by the root letter e.g. H or U. I have worked out a few of the subclades. I was particularly keen to see if T1a and U2e appeared in Yamnaya, since both appear in cultures of east and west derived ultimately from Yamnaya. They do. Neither of these haplogroups arose in Yamnaya.


U2e (estimated date from Behar 2012 19,290 years ago) goes back to hunter-gatherers most probably around the Urals, since Palaeolithic U2 was found north of the Black Sea and has not been found elsewhere in Europe in the Mesolithic.
T1a (estimated date from Behar 2012 14,684 years ago) most likely entered Europe in the Neolithic.


The interest here is that neither has so far appeared in cultures of western and central Europe before 4000 BC. So they may help in tracking Indo-Europeans. I stress that these were not the only mtDNA haplogroups in Yamnaya - just the most distinctive on present evidence.

Here are the details:


5000–4500 y.a. - T1a - Yamnaya - Russia - Nikolaevka III [NIK1]
5000–4500 y.a. - T1a - Yamnaya - Ukraine - Vinogradnoe [VIN2, VIN5] 2 samples.
3950-3400 BC - T1a1'3 - Baalberge - Germany - Karsdorf [KAR 22]
2628-2570 BC - T1a - Corded Ware? - Germany - Eulau [EUL 25]
2614-2578 BC - T1a1'3 - Corded Ware - Germany - Karsdorf [KAR 31 and 41]
2600–2500 BC - T1a - Bell Beaker - Germany - Kromsdorf [grave 9b]
2100 BC? - T1a - Bell Beaker - Germany - Eulau [EUL 31]
1300-1100 BC - T1a - - Scotland - Cladh Hallan, South Uist
600-400 BC - T1a - Scythian - Russia - Rostov-on-Don [RD6, RD11]



4000-3000 BC - U2e - Ust-Tartas - Russia - Sopka [Ut 2, 12, 16] 3 samples.
5000–4500 y.a. - [B]U2e1a - Yamnaya - Bulgaria - Golyamata Mogila, Popovo [POP3]
2600 BC - U2e2 - Corded Ware - Germany - Karsdorf [KAR 28]
2600–2500 BC - U2e - Bell Beaker - Germany -Kromsdorf [grave 3]
2500 BC - U2e1 - Corded Ware - Switzerland - Spreitenbach-Moosweg [11/7]
2200-2136 BC - U2e1f - Unetice - Germany - Eulau [EUL 51]
1800–1400 BC - U2e - Andronovo - Russia - Solenoozernaïa IV, kourgane I, burial 4 [S10]
600-400 BC - U2e - Scythian - Russia - Rostov-on-Don [RD12]
0 BC/AD - U2e - Denmark - Bøgebjerggård [B3]

Jean M
03-15-2014, 06:05 PM
Maciamo Hay has created a map of the distribution of T1 in Europe: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_mtDNA.shtml

MfA
03-15-2014, 06:31 PM
from Palisto's collection of Kurdish mtDNA.

1x T1a1'3 T16126C, A16163G, C16186T, T16189C, C16294T, A73G, T152C, T195C, A263G, 315.1C (Kurds from Iran; Derenko et al., 2007)
1x U2e1a with A16051G, T152C, A508G, A3720G, A5390G, T5426C, C6045T, T6152C, A10876, T13020C, T13734C, A15907G, G16129C, T16362C, C340T, C11197T, T11732C, G7337A, A15218G, T16311C, T16519C (Sorani from Sulaymaniyah/Iraq)
1x U2 (Alevi with Zaza ancestry, Turkey)

evon
03-15-2014, 06:52 PM
Looking at our mtDNA T1-2 and U2 matches from 23andme, my grandmother might have more Indo-European related matches since she has more Balkan ancestry then me..

Mine:

T's:

T2g 1
T2f1 2
T2f 1
T2e 8
T2c1 4
T2b6 2
T2b5 3
T2b4 3
T2b3 1
T2b2 1
T2b1 1
T2b 48
T2a1b 2
T2a1a 4
T2a 3
T2 8
T1a3 2
T1a1 16
T1a 2
T1 2

U2's:


U2e1a 4
U2e 5

Grandmother:

T's:

T1 4
T1a 3
T1a1 17
T1a3 1
T1b 1
T2 15
T2a 4
T2a1 2
T2a1a 1
T2a1b 2
T2b 54
T2b1 1
T2b2 8
T2b3 2
T2b4 1
T2b5 2
T2b6 2
T2c1 4
T2c1b 1
T2e 9
T2f1 5

U2's:

U2e 10
U2e1 5
U2e1a 1

Humanist
03-15-2014, 07:31 PM
The interest here is that neither [T1a or U2e] has so far appeared in cultures of western and central Europe before 4000 BC...

....

T1a (estimated date from Behar 2012 14,684 years ago) most likely entered Europe in the Neolithic.


5000–4500 y.a. - T1a - Yamnaya - Russia - Nikolaevka III [NIK1]
5000–4500 y.a. - T1a - Yamnaya - Ukraine - Vinogradnoe [VIN2, VIN5] 2 samples.
3950-3400 BC - T1a1'3 - Baalberge - Germany - Karsdorf [KAR 22]
2628-2570 BC - T1a - Corded Ware? - Germany - Eulau [EUL 25]
2614-2578 BC - T1a1'3 - Corded Ware - Germany - Karsdorf [KAR 31 and 41]
2600–2500 BC - T1a - Bell Beaker - Germany - Kromsdorf [grave 9b]
2100 BC? - T1a - Bell Beaker - Germany - Eulau [EUL 31]
1300-1100 BC - T1a - [BB derived] - Scotland - Cladh Hallan, South Uist
600-400 BC - T1a - Scythian - Russia - Rostov-on-Don [RD6, RD11]


That is interesting. Between T1 and T2, Assyrians are mostly T1. My father and the member Tomasso included.

T1
T1
T1a
T1a
T1
T1a2
T1a1b
T2
T2a1b

T1 accounts for ~6% of our mtDNA lines (N=116).

vettor
03-15-2014, 07:34 PM
Maciamo Hay has created a map of the distribution of T1 in Europe: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_mtDNA.shtml

T2 seems more appropriate for yamnaya.

North-east italy has 18% of T2 ( rest of Italy is under 10% )

GailT
03-15-2014, 08:29 PM
In the Wilde study, 24 of 63 samples are haplogroup U (39%), and the distribution of U looks similar to Mesolithic Europeans with mostly U5 and U4:

U5: 12
U4: 8
U2e1a: 1
K1: 2
and one U sample with partial results that can't be assigned to a haplogroup.

The U5 samples include ten U5a1, with only one U5a2a and one U5b2a1.

Jean M
03-15-2014, 09:15 PM
Thanks Gail. I was hoping for a contribution from you. I haven't had time to allocate proper haplogroups to all the samples.

Jean M
03-15-2014, 09:19 PM
T2 seems more appropriate for yamnaya.

Yes there is a T2 among the Yamnaya samples. T2a1b1a at Golyamata Mogila, Popovo, Bulgaria [POP1].

I did explain in my first post that U2e and T1a are not the only haplogroups in Yamnaya. They are just the ones in which I have a particular interest, for tracking reasons. T2 appears in Europe in the Early Neolithic, so we can't use it to track new, post-Neolithic arrivals. Or at least we can't unless we can refine it down to a subclade such as T2a1b1a, and see if that only arrives in the Copper Age.

Jean M
03-15-2014, 11:51 PM
I see that Maciamo Hay worked out the subclades days ago! http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29666-Copper-amp-Bronze-Age-Steppe-people-%28PIE%29-had-mixed-light-and-dark-pigmentation. He also links T1a with the Indo-European expansion.

Rathna
03-16-2014, 12:22 AM
In the Wilde study, 24 of 63 samples are haplogroup U (39%), and the distribution of U looks similar to Mesolithic Europeans with mostly U5 and U4:

U5: 12
U4: 8
U2e1a: 1
K1: 2
and one U sample with partial results that can't be assigned to a haplogroup.

The U5 samples include ten U5a1, with only one U5a2a and one U5b2a1.

Of course I agree with you: Mesolithic Europeans more than Eastern Indo-European, but if I had said this to Jean Manco what would have happened?
Also a sample given like U/K is actually U5a1.

Jean M
03-16-2014, 05:00 AM
Mesolithic Europeans more than Eastern Indo-European, but if I had said this to Jean Manco what would have happened?

Me quoting some of my booK? Or me quoting a bit of my WDYTYA Live lecture? (Both prior to the Wilde 2014 publication.)

For years I have been expecting Yamnaya mtDNA results to be predominately a mixture of:

1. European hunter-gatherer haplogroups U5 and U4 (with a trace of U2e).
2. European farming haplogroups, derived ultimately from the Near East.

This I deduced from the mixture that seems to have spread both east and west (we presume with Indo-European languages) in cultures derived from Yamnaya. This mixture appears in Andronovo, Corded Ware, Bell Beaker etc.

As I said in Ancestral Journeys (p. 105), this explains why we get an expansion in the hunter-gatherer haplogroups U5 and U4 long after foraging ceased over most of Europe.

1629

Rathna
03-16-2014, 06:45 AM
Me quoting some of my booK? Or me quoting a bit of my WDYTYA Live lecture? (Both prior to the Wilde 2014 publication.)

For years I have been expecting Yamnaya mtDNA results to be predominately a mixture of:

1. European hunter-gatherer haplogroups U5 and U4 (with a trace of U2e).
2. European farming haplogroups, derived ultimately from the Near East.

This I deduced from the mixture that seems to have spread both east and west (we presume with Indo-European languages) in cultures derived from Yamnaya. This mixture appears in Andronovo, Corded Ware, Bell Beaker etc.

As I said in Ancestral Journeys, this explains why we get an expansion in the hunter-gatherer haplogroups U5 and U4 long after foraging ceased over most of Europe.

1629

I appreciate your answer, but probably to do hypotheses about mtDNA tested only partially when for its slow mutation rate we would need at least the FMS is not convincing.
I see many hypotheses about the origin of many populations as those done from the paper of the Lactose Tolerance, when by reading the paper it is plenty of caveats and asks for many other inquiries.
Perhaps if the researchers of this paper did also deep exams of the Y of these people we will certainly have more reliable data to discuss upon.

Jean M
03-16-2014, 11:58 AM
I agree entirely that Yamnaya Y-DNA would have been helpful!

The difficulty that we have with Indo-European mtDNA is that it is a mixture of haplogroups that had already arrived in Europe long before the spread of Copper Age cultures derived from Yamnaya. So at the moment it is very difficult to distinguish between mtDNA travelling with Indo-Europeans and mtDNA absorbed by Indo-Europeans as they spread. In other words, we have a problem working out whether Indo-European languages were spread by mass migration, or male-only warrior bands (as some have proposed).

It will take full mitochondrial testing from ancient DNA and a lot of work before we get anywhere close to working out the degree to which Indo-European spread was by complete families. However it is important to note that Early European Neolithic ancient DNA (such as LBK) is almost devoid of hunter-gatherer U4 and U5, but these haplogroups (which appear in Yamnaya) reappear in Copper and Bronze Age Europe. That suggests to me that Copper Age migrations out of the Pontic-Caspian steppe were not male-only bands for the most part.

DMXX
03-16-2014, 01:20 PM
we have a problem working out whether Indo-European languages were spread by mass migration, or male-only warrior bands (as some have proposed).


The former appears to be better substantiated by circumstantial evidence in my opinion. Particularly the climatic changes in prehistoric times. Tripolye, the BMAC and even the Eurasian steppe have experienced drying at points in time which conveniently centre around the initiation of IE-related movements.

Jean M
03-16-2014, 02:48 PM
The former appears to be better substantiated by circumstantial evidence in my opinion. Particularly the climatic changes in prehistoric times. Tripolye, the BMAC and even the Eurasian steppe have experienced drying at points in time which conveniently centre around the initiation of IE-related movements.

I agree entirely. To quote myself (AJ, 131):


A shift in the climate after 3200 BC may have encouraged an exodus from the European steppe. Conditions became colder and drier. In the forest-steppe belt the forest was reduced and the steppe expanded. The region was at its most arid between 2700 and 2000 BC.

The movement up the Danube would keep herds fed on riverine pasture. No-one has argued that this was anything but mass movement.

GailT
03-16-2014, 02:48 PM
I think we understand the general migrations of U5: it was present in Europe before the LGM. U5a1 and U5a2 were probably present in LGM refugia from Italy to the Balkans, and perhaps as far east as Ukraine and the Caucasus region.

They expanded into northwestern Europe as the ice retreated. Some U5a1 subclades remained in northwestern Europe and are still found there at extremely low frequency today. Others, including U5a1a1, U5a1b and other minor U5a1 subclades expanded into eastern Europe and the Steppe and were present among Indo-Europeans who then migrated back to western and northern Europe. This would explain the extremely rapid expansion in diversity of U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 beginning around 6000 ybp and the fact that they account for a large fraction of European U5 samples today.

One question that remains is: Did U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 originate in central Europe and then migrate to eastern Europe and the Steppe, or did they originate from a U5a1 LGM population in a Ukraine or Caucasus refugium and expand directly into eastern Europe and the Steppe? If the former, then some U5a1a1 may have been in Europe before the arrival of Indo-Europeans. If the latter, perhaps the current population of U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 in Europe descends entirely from Indo-European immigrants. However, if people were extremely mobile, it is possible that there was mixing throughout western Eurasia and it might not be possible to determine the precise geographic origin of any given individual.

It would be extremely helpful to have full sequences from the Wilde samples to sort this out. One of the early Chalcolithic samples, MOB3, might be U5a1f1a, based on a heteroplasmy 8251R. U5a1f1a has two modern samples in Hungary (JQ704962) and the Caucasus Mtns (AY882398), and its subclade U5a1f1a1 is found in Russia, Germany, Norway and England. If we had full sequence results for the Wilde samples, we might find that the U5a1 samples represent extinct mtDNA lineages, or perhaps that they are ancestral to large numbers of present day Europeans.

parasar
03-17-2014, 12:16 AM
Nice map courtesy Fair Haired:


Ancient Pontiac [sic] Steppe DNA
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zpAcd_2YNln8.kiAdXb0B2q5I

alan
03-17-2014, 12:56 AM
That is interesting stuff. I have put a few thoughts in bold below


I think we understand the general migrations of U5: it was present in Europe before the LGM. U5a1 and U5a2 were probably present in LGM refugia from Italy to the Balkans, and perhaps as far east as Ukraine and the Caucasus region.

That makes it sound like the epi-Gravettians who were located in Italy, Balkans and Ukraine.

They expanded into northwestern Europe as the ice retreated.

The problem with that is the epi-gravettians are now not thought to have expanded into NW Europe. Its now held that most of Europe other than the original epigravettian areas were settled from the western refugia. There is a grey area with the microblade groups like the post-Swiderians in NW Europe who may have come from the east somewhere but probably not from the Gravettian areas.


Some U5a1 subclades remained in northwestern Europe and are still found there at extremely low frequency today. Others, including U5a1a1, U5a1b and other minor U5a1 subclades expanded into eastern Europe and the Steppe and were present among Indo-Europeans who then migrated back to western and northern Europe. This would explain the extremely rapid expansion in diversity of U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 beginning around 6000 ybp and the fact that they account for a large fraction of European U5 samples today.

Certainly sounds like a fit for a place where population was marginal to farming until about 4000BC and then suddenly underwent a major explosion. Sounds pretty like the steppe area to me.

One question that remains is: Did U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 originate in central Europe and then migrate to eastern Europe and the Steppe, or did they originate from a U5a1 LGM population in a Ukraine or Caucasus refugium and expand directly into eastern Europe and the Steppe?

If I had to guess I would reckon they existed in very low levels in the steppe since the ice age and only expanded out in the copper age

If the former, then some U5a1a1 may have been in Europe before the arrival of Indo-Europeans. If the latter, perhaps the current population of U5a1a1 and U5a1b1 in Europe descends entirely from Indo-European immigrants. However, if people were extremely mobile, it is possible that there was mixing throughout western Eurasia and it might not be possible to determine the precise geographic origin of any given individual.

It would be extremely helpful to have full sequences from the Wilde samples to sort this out. One of the early Chalcolithic samples, MOB3, might be U5a1f1a, based on a heteroplasmy 8251R. U5a1f1a has two modern samples in Hungary (JQ704962) and the Caucasus Mtns (AY882398), and its subclade U5a1f1a1 is found in Russia, Germany, Norway and England. If we had full sequence results for the Wilde samples, we might find that the U5a1 samples represent extinct mtDNA lineages, or perhaps that they are ancestral to large numbers of present day Europeans.

Jean M
03-17-2014, 08:52 AM
Nice map courtesy Fair Haired:

That looks correct. I had already produced one based on Google Earth that I posted in the other thread. Should have put it here as well.

1632

Baltimore1937
03-17-2014, 09:25 AM
One thing that strikes me as significant regarding the Italian refugium is the vast area of the Adriatic which was above sea level during the LGM. It must have been a major incubating location for subclades of U5.

Jean M
03-17-2014, 09:26 AM
Here is a map of Mesolithic ancient mtDNA from Sanchez-Quinto 2012.

1633

U5b2c1 (La Brana) and U5b1 (Aizpea, Navarre [AIZ-1]) have been found in Mesolithic Iberia. It does look as though U5b1 and U5b2 radiated from the Franco-Iberian refuge. U5b3 seems to have expanded along the Mediterranean coasts from a refuge in the Italian Peninsula.

You will see that Cheddar Man is reported as U5b. I don't know why. All I have for him is 16192T, 16270T. I understand that Chris Stringer said at WDYTYA Live that they are thinking of retesting his remains, as the original test by Brian Sykes was never properly written up.

Rathna
03-17-2014, 03:54 PM
U5b2c1 (La Brana) and U5b1 (Aizpea, Navarre [AIZ-1]) have been found in Mesolithic Iberia. It does look as though U5b1 and U5b2 radiated from the Franco-Iberian refuge. U5b3 seems to have expanded along the Mediterranean coasts from a refuge in the Italian Peninsula.



This is what geneticists think. It was the paper of Pala (if I remember well, but there was also Francalacci) which demonstrated that, and it was the first time that a peer review spoke of an Italian Refugium of something, but I was speaking about it already from many years.
For this I'd be cautious about every statement: we know a little yet.

Jean M
03-17-2014, 04:24 PM
For this I'd be cautious about every statement: we know a little yet.

Absolutely. That is why I spoke in cautious terms. "U5b3 seems to have expanded along the Mediterranean coasts.." We await ancient DNA results from Italy that we can really put our trust in. We have a Mesolithic result from Grotta d’Oriente, Favignana, Ègadi Islands, Sicily which was reported as mtDNA HV1, but only HVR I was tested and only one mutation found - 16067T, which also appears in U5b3d. I would bet on U5b3d, but solid fact is what we need.

By the way, I don't think anyone has ever denied that some people sheltered in Italy during the LGM. The only argument is over

1. The relative contribution of these people to the recolonization of northern Europe after the LGM.
2. Their Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups.

Rathna
03-18-2014, 08:55 AM
"U5b3 seems to have expanded along the Mediterranean coasts.." We await ancient DNA results from Italy that we can really put our trust in. We have a Mesolithic result from Grotta d’Oriente, Favignana, Ègadi Islands, Sicily which was reported as mtDNA HV1, but only HVR I was tested and only one mutation found - 16067T, which also appears in U5b3d. I would bet on U5b3d, but solid fact is what we need.


Italy Grotta d’Oriente, Favignana, Ègadi Islands, Sicily [Oriente B] 8,740-8,390 cal BP HV1? or U5b3d? 16067T. Reported as HV1, but HVR-1 only tested. 16067T also appears in U5b3d. Mannino 2012

Jean, of course you bet on U5b3d, and pour cause French would say, but... by a statistic point of view we have to say that C16067T is a very rare mutation and happens only in these two haplogroups: HV1 and U5b3d, but from these data from "Ian Logan spreadsheet" we can say that HV1 has practically only this mutation whereas U5b3d has many in HVRI, thus if the Italian sample has only this mutation, statistics is in favour of HV1:

U5b3d 13830 16067 16311
47. GQ129173(Spain) Pala U5b3d 23-JUN-2009
A73G C150T T152C G228A A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3197C C3212T A4769G C7028T G7226A A7768G A8860G T9038C G9477A A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C T13830C T14182C C14766T A15326G C16067T C16192T C16270T T16304C T16311C
48. GQ129174(Iraq) Pala U5b3d 23-JUN-2009
A73G C150T G228A A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3197C A4769G C7028T G7226A A7768G A8860G G9477A T9707C A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A T13617C T13830C T14182C C14766T A15326G C16067T C16192T C16270T T16304C T16311C A16312G
HV1 8014T 15218 16067
21. AY738943(Italy) Achilli HV1 13-APR-2007
A263G 309.1C 315.1C A1438G A2706G A4769G C7028T A7569G A8014T T8376C A8860G G9755A A13535G A15218G A15326G C16067T T16519C
22. EF660936(Italy) Gasparre HV1 04-JUL-2007
A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G T3906C A4769G T5483C T6956C C7028T A8014T A8860G T9018C G15140A A15218G A15326G A15805G C16067T G16129A C16242T
23. JF320654(Armenian) FTDNA HV1 05-MAR-2011
A263G 315.1C 523.1C 523.2A A750G A1438G A2706G A4766G A4769G C7028T A8014T A8860G G9548A A15326G C16067T
HV1a 8277
24. JF316743(Armenian) FTDNA HV1a 05-MAR-2011 A93G A263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C A508G A750G A1438G A2706G G4596A A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C 8278.1C 8278.2C A8860G A15218G A15326G C16067T T16249C
HV1a1 150 15927 16355
25. FJ210914(Armenian) FTDNA HV1a1 23-SEP-2008
C150T A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G T4823C G6150A C6935T C7028T G7379A A8014T T8277C A8860G A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
26. HM852761(Armenian16) Schoenberg HV1a117-MAR-2011
C150T T204C A263G C309N T310C A750G A1438G A2706G G3666A A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C T8279C A8860G G10172A A14047N A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
27. HQ326986(Syriac) FTDNA HV1a1 11-OCT-2010
C150T A263G 309.1C 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4769G A5581G C6068T G6150A C7028T G7379A G7805A A8014T T8277C A8860G A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
HV1a1a 4227 9554
28. EF556168 Behar2008 HV1a1a 22-APR-2008
C150T A263G 309.1C 315.1C 523.1C 523.2A A750G A1438G A2706G A4227G A4257G A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C A8860G G9554A A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
29. FJ460547.2(Tunisia) Costa HV1a1a12-JAN-2010
C150T A263G C309T 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 523.1C 523.2A A750G A1438G A2706G C4011T A4227G A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C A8860G G9554A A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
30. HM575427(Armenian) FTDNA HV1a1a 05-JUL-2010
A73G C150T A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4227G A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C A8860G G9554A A15218G A15326G A15610R G15927A C16067T C16355T
31. JQ002593(Armenian) FTDNA HV1a1a 21-NOV-2011
C150T A249- A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G A4227G T4688C A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C 8277.1C 8277.2C A8860G G9554A A15218G A15326G G15927A C16067T C16355T
HV1a2 4596
32. EF660935(Italy) Gasparre HV1a2 04-JUL-2007
A263G 315.1C A374G A750G A1438G G1664C A2706G G4596A A4769G C7028T A8014T T8277C T8279C A8280C A8860G G8994A A12361G T12601C A15218G A15326G T15796C C16067T
33. EU935461(Egypt) Kujanova HV1a2 31-DEC-2008
A263G 315.1C A750G A1438G A2706G G4596A A4769G A6060C C7028T A8014T T8277C A8860G G13317A A14587G A15218G A15326G C16067T

Jean M
03-18-2014, 10:09 AM
Jean, of course you bet on U5b3d, and pour cause French would say

I'm just guessing that Mesolithic Italy was similar to the rest of Europe in mtDNA until proven otherwise. But there are studies in the works which could prove otherwise. In fact I vaguely recall a lecture based on some pending publication which would show Italy to be completely different. So we wait and see.