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Barellalee
03-16-2014, 04:25 AM
Hi everyone. I recently discovered on the Maternal Line, Im MtDNA Haplogroup J, and my Subclade is J2a1. All of my Maternal ancestry traceable is in Tuscany, Italy. Does anyone have any knowledge further on the demography or history of or anything else regarding J2a1? What "archaeological cultures" it could be tied to is of immense interest. All I know of it so far, is that it split from J2a about 16.500 YPB in Europe, so is a native European Subclade of J.

GoldenHind
03-17-2014, 09:36 PM
Hi everyone. I recently discovered on the Maternal Line, Im MtDNA Haplogroup J, and my Subclade is J2a1. All of my Maternal ancestry traceable is in Tuscany, Italy. Does anyone have any knowledge further on the demography or history of or anything else regarding J2a1? What "archaeological cultures" it could be tied to is of immense interest. All I know of it so far, is that it split from J2a about 16.500 YPB in Europe, so is a native European Subclade of J.

Jean M. in her book "Ancestral Journeys," connects the arrival of mtHG J in Europe with the Funnel Beaker (also known as TRB from the German name of Trichterbecher) culture and the introduction of dairy farming around 4000 BC into northern Europe.

My own mt line is J2a1a1, and stems from southern Sweden. A possible explanation is that your line got to Tuscany with the Lombards or Ostrogoths, but I imagine there could well be other possibilities as well.

Barellalee
03-19-2014, 12:07 PM
Thank you, and thanks for the reference to that culture, I was previously unaware of. As it looks, about 44% of ethnic Italians belong to MtDNA H, and the remainder fall nearly completely into U, T, and J. I guess I'd be an odd case if I was of Germanic Maternal descent, since the record is that the Ostrogothic and Longobardic invasions consisted mostly of smaller groups of male warriors entering and taking over by force, and DNA evidence hasn't showed up much Northern European in Italy. I.do see what you mean though. J2a1, my particular brand, is more common in the Alps, Scandinavia, Germany, and England. My Great-Grandfather was from the Alps in the Massa-Carrara Province, but obviously it wasn't him my MtDNA came from lol. My Great-Grandmother who it did come from was from Livorno.

Dauv
06-03-2015, 02:21 PM
Thank you, and thanks for the reference to that culture, I was previously unaware of. As it looks, about 44% of ethnic Italians belong to MtDNA H, and the remainder fall nearly completely into U, T, and J. I guess I'd be an odd case if I was of Germanic Maternal descent, since the record is that the Ostrogothic and Longobardic invasions consisted mostly of smaller groups of male warriors entering and taking over by force, and DNA evidence hasn't showed up much Northern European in Italy. I.do see what you mean though. J2a1, my particular brand, is more common in the Alps, Scandinavia, Germany, and England. My Great-Grandfather was from the Alps in the Massa-Carrara Province, but obviously it wasn't him my MtDNA came from lol. My Great-Grandmother who it did come from was from Livorno.

Lombards (Longobards), Ostrogoths or other Germanic tribes that settled in Tuscany.

Not true that Ostrogothic and Longobardic invasions consisted mostly of smaller groups of male warriors only.

Read this


Fu un esodo di massa, che nei numeri va comunque ridimensionato alla demografia del tempo: compresi uomini, donne, bambini, servi si tratt˛ di circa cento-centocinquantamila longobardi, che salgono fino a trecentomila unitÓ se calcoliamo, peraltro in maniera approssimativa data l'indeterminatezza delle fonti, gli altri gruppi germanici.

150.000 Longobards (men, women, kids, slaves...), plus other 150.000 Germanic people.

http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/istituzioni/storia/?unita=01.01

Dewsloth
07-19-2016, 06:37 PM
Jean M. in her book "Ancestral Journeys," connects the arrival of mtHG J in Europe with the Funnel Beaker (also known as TRB from the German name of Trichterbecher) culture and the introduction of dairy farming around 4000 BC into northern Europe.

My own mt line is J2a1a1, and stems from southern Sweden. A possible explanation is that your line got to Tuscany with the Lombards or Ostrogoths, but I imagine there could well be other possibilities as well.

My MtDNA is also J2a1a1, but as far as I know, all of my maternal relatives were from the Lebanese/Syrian region.
I don't know if some women came south with the Varangian Guard or Sigurd's Norwegian Crusade, but the "old battleaxe" mother-in-law jokes just write themselves...

Maorine
07-30-2016, 05:11 PM
My MtDNA is also J2a1a1, but as far as I know, all of my maternal relatives were from the Lebanese/Syrian region.
I don't know if some women came south with the Varangian Guard or Sigurd's Norwegian Crusade, but the "old battleaxe" mother-in-law jokes just write themselves...

I understand how you feel. I am Puerto Rican and was surprised to be in the J2a1a1 maternal haplogroup. Common belief is that the European DNA came from men emigrating to PR and that native and african DNA came primarily from the female side.

My DNA spread is very typical of PR, 60% European, 25% African and 15% Native Indian. Even though I knew that going back to my great-grandmother the women were white, I still expected a different outcome.

Now I am trying to figure out who this crazy woman was that crossed the Atlantic sometime prior to 1800.

Seeing comments about Scandinavian DNA in J2a1a1 is also interesting. I did my mom's DNA and she has 6% Finnish DNA.

Il PapÓ
08-01-2016, 03:40 AM
J2a1a1 seems to be coming from the neolithic levant or related people. Judging by his presence in late neholitic Spain people http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105105 (it's written as j2a1a but in the new paper of Lazaridis "The genetic structure of the world's first farmers", it's J2a1a1) who are supposed to inherit a great deal of their DNA from the Nelithic Levant. And his presence among current Lebanese population, you're the second person from this region I saw bearing it Dewsloth.

So the most probable is that J2a1a1 get to Europe from the Levant with neolithic farmer, not dumb story like a Norwegian Queen crusader going to the levant to make babies.

08-24-2016, 05:15 PM
My maternal side as far as family knowledge is all Welsh, South West Wales, and I'm J2a1a1, also the males side is also from this area and am oddly R1a1a,
My family always said they found me under a gooseberry bush, maybe they wasn't lying..:D

Dewsloth
03-24-2017, 04:10 PM
Well, FTDNA just changed me from J2a1a1 to J2a1a1e. Not sure what to make of that. Now to research that subclade...

Dewsloth
03-30-2017, 12:06 AM
Here's the distribution of MDKAs on FTDNA for J2a1a1e:

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES
Haplogroup Country Comment Count
J2a1a1e Denmark - 3
J2a1a1e France - 2
J2a1a1e Germany - 5
J2a1a1e Italy - 2
J2a1a1e Lithuania - 1
J2a1a1e Norway - 9
J2a1a1e Poland - 1
J2a1a1e Russian Federation - 1
J2a1a1e Sweden - 3
J2a1a1e Switzerland - 2
J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic - 1
J2a1a1e United Kingdom - 1
J2a1a1e United States - 1


^^^ It looks Nordic-Baltic, with light scattering where Vikings/Normans/Teutonic knights made port? :confused:

Il PapÓ
03-30-2017, 12:47 PM
Here's the distribution of MDKAs on FTDNA for J2a1a1e:

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES
Haplogroup Country Comment Count
J2a1a1e Denmark - 3
J2a1a1e France - 2
J2a1a1e Germany - 5
J2a1a1e Italy - 2
J2a1a1e Lithuania - 1
J2a1a1e Norway - 9
J2a1a1e Poland - 1
J2a1a1e Russian Federation - 1
J2a1a1e Sweden - 3
J2a1a1e Switzerland - 2
J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic - 1
J2a1a1e United Kingdom - 1
J2a1a1e United States - 1


^^^ It looks Nordic-Baltic, with light scattering where Vikings/Normans/Teutonic knights made port? :confused:

^^ The same apply to mine J2a1a1a , 40% of the J2a1a1a bearer are either Finns or Swedish on ftdna J project.

03-30-2017, 12:57 PM
^^ The same apply to mine J2a1a1a , 40% of the J2a1a1a bearer are either Finns or Swedish on ftdna J project.

Hello Il Papa,

Im Welsh, but on the Maternal side, J2a1a1a, my great great great grandmother (Maybe), might have been French, but no idea where, story in family says that a British soldier during the Napoleonic wars brought her back with him to Wales. Interesting story (no idea if its true, but was a maid to Josephine :behindsofa:) I am waiting to see if my LivingDNA results will allocate the 3% Europe unidentified to France. I do get French and German on 23andme.

Dewsloth
04-27-2020, 09:20 PM
Here's the distribution of MDKAs on FTDNA for J2a1a1e:

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES
Haplogroup Country Comment Count
J2a1a1e Denmark - 3
J2a1a1e France - 2
J2a1a1e Germany - 5
J2a1a1e Italy - 2
J2a1a1e Lithuania - 1
J2a1a1e Norway - 9
J2a1a1e Poland - 1
J2a1a1e Russian Federation - 1
J2a1a1e Sweden - 3
J2a1a1e Switzerland - 2
J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic - 1
J2a1a1e United Kingdom - 1
J2a1a1e United States - 1


^^^ It looks Nordic-Baltic, with light scattering where Vikings/Normans/Teutonic knights made port? :confused:

Three years later, not a big change in discoveries -- You've got a Nordic/Baltic group majority, Swiss/French, and spots in Italy and then us oddballs out in the Levant :confused: :(

HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES
GENETIC DISTANCE --1
Haplogroup Country Match Total
J2a1a1e Unknown 17
J2a1a1e Norway 9
J2a1a1e Germany 7
J2a1a1e Sweden 7
J2a1a1e France 6
J2a1a1e Denmark 3
J2a1a1e Italy 3
J2a1a1e Russian Federation 3
J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic 2
J2a1a1e United Kingdom 2
J2a1a1e Estonia 1
J2a1a1e Finland 1
J2a1a1e Ireland 1
J2a1a1e Latvia 1
J2a1a1e Lithuania 1
J2a1a1e Poland 1
J2a1a1e South Africa 1
J2a1a1e Switzerland 1
J2a1a1e Turkey 1
J2a1a1e United States 1