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Tsakhur
03-03-2021, 01:09 PM
Here are the results of Philippine averages: I noticed that no one have averaged them so I decide to do it. Murut and Gongguan is Austronesian, Zhejiang is Chinese to represent if there is any Sinitic admixture in Pinos. (There were a lot of historic Chinese migrations to the Philippines even before the arrival of Spaniards: there used to be Chinese-influenced kingdoms or principalities in Luzon for example). Shahr_Sokhta and AASI to represent South Asian admixture, Basque to represent European ancestry (it seems a lot of Spaniards who colonized the Philippines were Basques), Yemeni to represent any Arab affinity and Mixe (an Amerindian tribe from Mexico) to represent any Latino admixture.

Target: Filipino
Distance: 0.9264% / 0.00926370
46.4 Murut
31.2 TWN_Gongguan
12.6 Han_Zhejiang
3.4 Basque_Spanish
2.6 Papuan
1.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
0.8 Yemenite_Al_Jawf

Target: Luzon
Distance: 0.7354% / 0.00735382
41.8 Murut
32.4 TWN_Gongguan
16.6 Han_Zhejiang
2.8 Basque_Spanish
2.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.8 Papuan
1.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.2 Mixe

Target: Vizayan
Distance: 1.1727% / 0.01172717
47.8 TWN_Gongguan
39.0 Murut
5.2 Papuan
3.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.4 Basque_Spanish
1.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.8 Mixe

Target: Igorot
Distance: 2.5155% / 0.02515541
73.8 TWN_Gongguan
25.0 Murut
0.8 Papuan
0.2 Basque_Spanish
0.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1


Target: Aeta
Distance: 4.5773% / 0.04577292
35.0 Murut
26.8 TWN_Gongguan
13.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
12.4 Papuan
6.0 Basque_Spanish
5.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.4 Mixe

Target: Agta
Distance: 5.3927% / 0.05392674
37.0 TWN_Gongguan
24.2 Murut
13.6 Papuan
13.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
5.0 Basque_Spanish
5.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.2 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
0.4 Mixe

Target: Batak
Distance: 3.1222% / 0.03122174
61.6 Murut
11.2 Papuan
9.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
8.8 TWN_Gongguan
5.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.6 Basque_Spanish
1.2 Mixe
1.0 Yemenite_Al_Jawf

Replacing AASI and Iran_N with a South Asian proxy to see if Indian affinity is genuine:


Target: Filipino
Distance: 0.9491% / 0.00949082
47.2 Murut
30.4 TWN_Gongguan
12.8 Han_Zhejiang
3.0 Gujarati
2.8 Basque_Spanish
2.6 Papuan
1.2 Yemenite_Al_Jawf

Target: Luzon
Distance: 0.8536% / 0.00853599
44.2 Murut
29.8 TWN_Gongguan
17.6 Han_Zhejiang
5.0 Gujarati
1.8 Papuan
1.6 Basque_Spanish

Target: Vizayan
Distance: 1.2750% / 0.01275001
45.8 TWN_Gongguan
41.0 Murut
5.6 Gujarati
5.4 Papuan
0.8 Basque_Spanish
0.8 Han_Zhejiang
0.6 Mixe

Target: Igorot
Distance: 2.5164% / 0.02516429
73.6 TWN_Gongguan
25.2 Murut
0.8 Papuan
0.4 Basque_Spanish

Target: Aeta
Distance: 5.0864% / 0.05086435
41.0 Murut
23.4 TWN_Gongguan
21.4 Gujarati
13.2 Papuan
1.0 Mixe

Target: Agta
Distance: 5.8222% / 0.05822222
35.0 TWN_Gongguan
28.6 Murut
21.8 Gujarati
14.6 Papuan

Target: Batak
Distance: 3.3491% / 0.03349095
64.4 Murut
15.4 Gujarati
11.8 Papuan
7.6 TWN_Gongguan
0.8 Mixe

Here are the G25 results of individual Philipinos. Interesting how many score significant Chinese ancestry. Which shows that Chinese admixture is widespread in the Phils that expected. Also it seems like all of them have some West Eurasian admixture (Iran_N+Iberian+Yemeni). I'm confused though where does the Arab admixture in Pinoys come from? Some early Islamic contact? Philippines used to be Islamic+Animist+Buddhist+Hindu before the arrival of the Spaniards. Even today, there are still notable Muslim minority in Southern Phils.

https://i.imgur.com/EW4fj7n.png

https://i.imgur.com/0i16xc9.png


Individual results of Igorots (an isolated Austronesian Mountain tribe from Northern Phils) and Negritos to compare: Its so strange to see Negritos scoring so many South Asian (AASI+Iran_N) and European admixture??.. :confused:

https://i.imgur.com/Sylq2wq.png

I decided to put a South Asian population just to verify if their South Asian is genuine. Seems like they have actual Indian ancestry. Which probably comes from the Indianization period of Philippines which was before Spanish colonization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_influences_in_early_Philippine_polities

https://i.imgur.com/2OQ0UUO.png

https://i.imgur.com/J5iQXtE.png

Note- Vizayan3 seems to be the same individual as the lone Vizayan sample in G25 spreadsheet while Luz6 seems to be the same individual as the single Luzon sample in G25

drobbah
03-03-2021, 01:24 PM
The Islamic sultanates were established by Malay speaking muslim elites from Borneo and ruled over an indigenous population.
I highly doubt the Filipinos have minor Arab admixture as it seems like very rare ancestry even for muslim SE Asians.I think those Yemeni scores is just noise tbh or might represent the NA ancestry of the Spaniards that mixed with the Filipinos as you used the Basque as a representative of Iberian ancestry.

Tsakhur
03-03-2021, 02:30 PM
The Islamic sultanates were established by Malay speaking muslim elites from Borneo and ruled over an indigenous population.
I highly doubt the Filipinos have minor Arab admixture as it seems like very rare ancestry even for muslim SE Asians.I think those Yemeni scores is just noise tbh or might represent the NA ancestry of the Spaniards that mixed with the Filipinos as you used the Basque as a representative of Iberian ancestry.

Thanks. You are right. Arab ancestry is actually very rare among SE Asians even those who are Muslims. Do you think the Indian ancestry is genuine though? What about the European and South Asian admixture in the Negritos?

Just found out that most of the Spaniards who settled in the Philippines were from Andalucia and that Basques were actually a small minority of settlers despite being the forefathers of several prominent politician and businessmen families in the Phils. Therefore, I replaced the Basques with Andalucians for the Iberian proxy. I also included Moroccan_North and Esan_Nigeria to see if the Arab affinity will disappear or not. Here is the result:

https://i.imgur.com/TbxDORO.png

Compare with ethnic minorities like Igorots (remote Austronesian tribal group from the mountains of Northern Phils) and Negritos (Aeta, Agta, Batak). Just found out that there are new Igorot samples as well which I forgot to include in the previous runs.

https://i.imgur.com/abPLr8X.png

Btw here are the averages for each Philippine population:


Target: Filipino
Distance: 0.8832% / 0.00883193
46.8 Murut
30.8 TWN_Gongguan
12.6 Han_Zhejiang
3.2 Spanish_Andalucia
2.6 Papuan
1.4 Moroccan_North
1.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1


Target: Luzon
Distance: 0.7631% / 0.00763094
42.0 Murut
32.2 TWN_Gongguan
16.6 Han_Zhejiang
3.0 Spanish_Andalucia
2.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.8 Papuan
1.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.2 Mixe


Target: Vizayan
Distance: 1.1378% / 0.01137789
47.6 TWN_Gongguan
38.6 Murut
5.0 Papuan
3.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.8 Spanish_Andalucia
1.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.0 Mixe

Target: Igorot
Distance: 2.3768% / 0.02376791
76.0 TWN_Gongguan
22.4 Murut
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.8 Papuan

Target: Aeta
Distance: 3.6276% / 0.03627556
46.2 Murut
15.6 TWN_Gongguan
12.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
11.8 Papuan
5.8 Spanish_Andalucia
3.8 Esan_Nigeria
2.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.8 Mixe

Target: Agta
Distance: 4.4480% / 0.04448038
37.0 Murut
24.2 TWN_Gongguan
13.0 Papuan
12.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
5.2 Spanish_Andalucia
4.4 Esan_Nigeria
2.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
1.0 Mixe

Target: Batak
Distance: 2.6015% / 0.02601456
67.8 Murut
10.8 Papuan
8.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
4.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
2.6 TWN_Gongguan
2.4 Esan_Nigeria
1.8 Spanish_Andalucia
1.4 Mixe

Something is fishy to me about the Negrito results. How do they get African, Spanish and Native American admixture from except if they also mixed with the Spanish and Latin American colonialists.

Btw the AASI utilized here is simulated from the Hakkipikki, a tribal group from Southern India while Mixe is an Amerindian tribe from Mexico that is used as a proxy to see if there is any Latin American ancestry in the Philippines.

okarinaofsteiner
03-03-2021, 11:27 PM
The "Gujarati" in Aeta/Agta definitely isn't genuine South Asian ancestry. It's most likely picking up the "Basal Eurasian" (which I assume is Onge-like) in Philippine Negrito DNA that isn't captured by Papuan or AASI_Sim. Why aren't you also using Onge/Hoabinhian?

drobbah
03-04-2021, 12:37 AM
Where did they find these Filipino samples? They seem to have legit Arab admixture unlike the Javanese and the vast majority of the muslims of the region besides the outliers,but only one of the samples has Iberian ancestry.

Target: Vizayan
Distance: 2.7395% / 0.02739548 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.8 TON_2500BP
8.0 Han
7.6 Onge
4.2 LAO_BA
2.4 Papuan

Target: Luzon
Distance: 2.2069% / 0.02206889 | ADC: 0.25x RC
81.6 TON_2500BP
15.6 Han
2.8 LAO_BA

Target: Filipino:GRC11053499
Distance: 3.1218% / 0.03121816 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.8 TON_2500BP
9.0 Han
1.8 Papuan
1.2 Onge
1.2 Yemeni

Target: Filipino:GRC10041276
Distance: 2.3222% / 0.02322211 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.8 TON_2500BP
25.2 Han
15.2 LAO_BA
2.2 Yemeni
1.6 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041275
Distance: 1.8956% / 0.01895560 | ADC: 0.25x RC
70.4 TON_2500BP
13.8 Han
12.8 LAO_BA
1.8 Yemeni
0.6 Papuan
0.6 Velamas

Target: Filipino:GRC10041274
Distance: 2.5440% / 0.02544035 | ADC: 0.25x RC
61.8 TON_2500BP
32.4 Han
2.8 Velamas
1.6 Onge
1.4 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041273
Distance: 1.7529% / 0.01752851 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.0 TON_2500BP
15.0 Han
5.4 LAO_BA
1.4 Papuan
1.2 Onge

Target: Filipino:GRC10041272
Distance: 2.1956% / 0.02195575 | ADC: 0.25x RC
69.6 TON_2500BP
13.2 LAO_BA
9.6 Han
3.6 Spanish_Andalucia
3.2 Yemeni
0.8 Papuan



The other populations:
Target: Igorot
Distance: 4.3283% / 0.04328304 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.2 TON_2500BP
8.8 Han

Target: Aeta
Distance: 3.3371% / 0.03337113 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
37.6 Onge
7.4 Papuan

Target: Agta
Distance: 4.1704% / 0.04170381 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
36.2 Onge
8.8 Papuan

Target: Batak
Distance: 2.7459% / 0.02745948 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.6 TON_2500BP
26.8 Onge
7.6 Papuan

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 06:56 AM
Where did they find these Filipino samples? They seem to have legit Arab admixture unlike the Javanese and the vast majority of the muslims of the region besides the outliers,but only one of the samples has Iberian ancestry.

Target: Vizayan
Distance: 2.7395% / 0.02739548 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.8 TON_2500BP
8.0 Han
7.6 Onge
4.2 LAO_BA
2.4 Papuan

Target: Luzon
Distance: 2.2069% / 0.02206889 | ADC: 0.25x RC
81.6 TON_2500BP
15.6 Han
2.8 LAO_BA

Target: Filipino:GRC11053499
Distance: 3.1218% / 0.03121816 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.8 TON_2500BP
9.0 Han
1.8 Papuan
1.2 Onge
1.2 Yemeni

Target: Filipino:GRC10041276
Distance: 2.3222% / 0.02322211 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.8 TON_2500BP
25.2 Han
15.2 LAO_BA
2.2 Yemeni
1.6 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041275
Distance: 1.8956% / 0.01895560 | ADC: 0.25x RC
70.4 TON_2500BP
13.8 Han
12.8 LAO_BA
1.8 Yemeni
0.6 Papuan
0.6 Velamas

Target: Filipino:GRC10041274
Distance: 2.5440% / 0.02544035 | ADC: 0.25x RC
61.8 TON_2500BP
32.4 Han
2.8 Velamas
1.6 Onge
1.4 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041273
Distance: 1.7529% / 0.01752851 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.0 TON_2500BP
15.0 Han
5.4 LAO_BA
1.4 Papuan
1.2 Onge

Target: Filipino:GRC10041272
Distance: 2.1956% / 0.02195575 | ADC: 0.25x RC
69.6 TON_2500BP
13.2 LAO_BA
9.6 Han
3.6 Spanish_Andalucia
3.2 Yemeni
0.8 Papuan



The other populations:
Target: Igorot
Distance: 4.3283% / 0.04328304 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.2 TON_2500BP
8.8 Han

Target: Aeta
Distance: 3.3371% / 0.03337113 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
37.6 Onge
7.4 Papuan

Target: Agta
Distance: 4.1704% / 0.04170381 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
36.2 Onge
8.8 Papuan

Target: Batak
Distance: 2.7459% / 0.02745948 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.6 TON_2500BP
26.8 Onge
7.6 Papuan

I'm not sure where in the Phils they are from. All I know is that they are non-Kankanaey aka non-tribal which means mainstream ethnic groups like Tagalog, Ilocano, Kapampangan, Cebuano, etc. In this case since they have actual Arab admixture, maybe they are indeed Muslims from Mindanao which is in the South close to Indonesia and Malaysia? Actually there are other Philippine samples as well but looks like they haven't been included into the G25 spreadsheet yet. Here they are if you also wanted to run them:



Luzon:Luz1,0.014797,-0.426522,-0.051288,-0.052649,0.12987,0.047411,-0.003055,-0.014307,-0.019634,-0.017312,0.039136,0.005995,-0.007433,-0.005643,0.00855,0.01127,0.000261,0.003041,0.00993 ,-0.016258,0.001996,-0.026462,-0.0053,-0.007832,-0.05257
Luzon:Luz3,0.018212,-0.42246,-0.048271,-0.055233,0.119099,0.046296,-0.005875,-0.012923,-0.016362,-0.014943,0.026307,0.004796,-0.000297,-0.00523,0.008958,0.004508,-0.000913,0.003674,0.001006,-0.005002,0.00262,-0.020526,-0.00037,-0.001446,-0.034009
Luzon:Luz4,0.013659,-0.409258,-0.04714,-0.04199,0.116637,0.043228,-0.000705,-0.008077,-0.014317,-0.013668,0.027119,0.005995,-0.006987,-0.007432,0.002986,0.00053,-0.006389,0.005574,0.006034,-0.005127,0.004617,-0.019413,-0.006039,-0.002892,-0.0382
Luzon:Luz5,0.017073,-0.370668,-0.049403,-0.036822,0.118791,0.045738,-0.00705,-0.014999,-0.011249,-0.010205,0.030367,0.001049,-0.000446,-0.004129,0.007057,0.011005,0.000782,0.006081,0.006 034,-0.004127,0.002121,-0.018424,-0.009613,-0.003735,-0.037841
Luzon:Luz6,0.010244,-0.4316,-0.055814,-0.053295,0.137256,0.061077,-0.004465,-0.009461,-0.018407,-0.014032,0.042871,0.004046,-0.004014,-0.00578,0.012486,0.010077,-0.005607,0.004941,0.007416,-0.008629,0.004617,-0.029182,-0.000739,-0.006989,-0.051253
Luzon:Luz7,0.017073,-0.416367,-0.056191,-0.053295,0.126177,0.048248,0.002585,-0.008077,-0.015748,-0.015672,0.041247,0.003597,-0.002527,-0.007294,0.004886,0.007425,-0.003129,0.009122,0.007416,-0.008629,0.00262,-0.026709,-0.00493,-0.00735,-0.049097
Luzon:Luz8,0.017073,-0.40215,-0.048271,-0.048127,0.115098,0.052989,-0.00658,-0.011999,-0.016975,-0.013668,0.025495,0.000599,0.001338,-0.003853,0.000543,0.005304,-0.006519,0.003547,0.010684,-0.007253,0.00262,-0.013478,-0.000246,-0.003494,-0.034368
Luzon:Luz9,0.014797,-0.42246,-0.044877,-0.046189,0.11356,0.059125,-0.004465,-0.010846,-0.017998,-0.01221,0.014128,0.002248,0.003568,-0.003028,0.002986,0.007955,-0.002608,0.003041,0.005405,-0.009505,0.007237,-0.00507,0.003697,-0.007109,-0.034847
Luzon:Luz10,0.009106,-0.406212,-0.052043,-0.05168,0.119407,0.047411,-0.003055,-0.007615,-0.015953,-0.012757,0.034589,0.004196,0.000595,-0.001514,0.004886,0.010209,0.005607,0.000127,0.007 416,-0.004502,-0.002121,-0.020403,-0.003697,-0.003735,-0.044667
Luzon:Luz11,0.011382,-0.416367,-0.053551,-0.042959,0.122177,0.049643,-0.00611,-0.014307,-0.014726,-0.010752,0.026469,0.005395,-0.007136,0.001101,0.014251,-0.001458,-0.007562,0.004814,0.003142,-0.006878,0.002995,-0.013849,-0.005176,-0.006989,-0.034727
Luzon:Luz12,0.018212,-0.427538,-0.056568,-0.052972,0.137872,0.056057,-0.0047,-0.005307,-0.014521,-0.019499,0.050503,0.005245,-0.006987,0.001789,0.010179,0.005171,-0.001695,0.008235,0.000628,-0.007128,0.007736,-0.027327,-0.007148,-0.009037,-0.048379
Vizayan:Vizaya2,0.004553,-0.415352,-0.064865,-0.031008,0.143719,0.037092,-0.004935,-0.017999,-0.019225,-0.024602,0.049853,-0.001948,-0.004162,0.000275,0.010179,0.00716,-0.004303,0.004941,0.006913,-0.01013,-0.000998,-0.025472,-0.013311,-0.005302,-0.055085
Vizayan:Vizaya3,0.013659,-0.405196,-0.062225,-0.033592,0.126177,0.036535,-0.00611,-0.011307,-0.011658,-0.018406,0.048554,0.005245,-0.002379,0.001651,0.008143,0.001724,-0.008345,0.004814,0.005908,-0.01063,-0.003743,-0.027327,-0.005916,-0.001566,-0.050175
Vizayan:Vizaya4,0.013659,-0.406212,-0.058454,-0.039729,0.133256,0.036256,-0.003995,-0.012923,-0.016157,-0.017495,0.048879,0.001349,-0.001635,0.005092,0.006243,0.007823,-0.002086,0.002914,0.005405,-0.011881,0.003369,-0.028564,-0.007518,-0.005422,-0.049217
Igorot1:Igorot1,0.015935,-0.44988,-0.037335,-0.070737,0.143411,0.068607,-0.00282,-0.021922,-0.028429,-0.022597,0.050016,0.007044,-0.002379,-0.004266,0.015201,0.007425,-0.002347,0.007728,0.012444,-0.014007,0.004243,-0.036725,-0.002835,-0.006989,-0.075083
Igorot2:Igorot2,0.013659,-0.445817,-0.05242,-0.063631,0.143719,0.066655,-0.00329,-0.016153,-0.024338,-0.026242,0.049528,0.001948,-0.004014,-0.006055,0.004072,0.007558,0.001043,0.005954,0.009 93,-0.018759,0.008859,-0.03759,-0.000123,-0.008073,-0.08155
Igorot3:Igorot3,0.015935,-0.443786,-0.043746,-0.068153,0.144335,0.066934,-0.000235,-0.016153,-0.026588,-0.020957,0.053263,0.007044,-0.004608,-0.001376,0.014658,0.009281,-0.004694,0.008488,0.010307,-0.014132,0.008984,-0.034128,-0.001356,-0.00964,-0.068976
Igorot4:Igorot4,0.01935,-0.450895,-0.049026,-0.064277,0.141873,0.060519,-0.00423,-0.014076,-0.02802,-0.020046,0.043682,0.002548,-0.011447,-0.00812,0.009229,0.009944,-0.003129,0.011275,0.013198,-0.017884,0.005615,-0.041176,-0.002465,-0.010845,-0.07652
Igorot5:Igorot5,0.018212,-0.450895,-0.047894,-0.066861,0.143104,0.06275,-0.007285,-0.016615,-0.029656,-0.019317,0.053426,0.00045,-0.006541,-0.000138,0.016965,0.007292,-0.014864,0.009375,0.013324,-0.011506,0,-0.031655,-0.002711,-0.013375,-0.069455
Igorot7:Igorot7,0.018212,-0.44988,-0.049403,-0.066538,0.139103,0.059404,-0.00705,-0.015692,-0.030065,-0.023326,0.048554,0.009891,-0.007284,-0.004954,0.013436,0.00769,-0.008345,0.00076,0.008547,-0.015758,0.001872,-0.035241,0.001972,-0.01217,-0.079753
Igorot9:Igorot9,0.01935,-0.454957,-0.039975,-0.069122,0.145566,0.067492,-0.00752,-0.015461,-0.027611,-0.023691,0.055862,0.001948,-0.00773,-0.007294,0.009093,0.009281,-0.002738,0.010642,0.017598,-0.012881,0.006613,-0.041053,-0.003697,-0.015785,-0.067898
Igorot10:Igorot10,0.021626,-0.448864,-0.044123,-0.071383,0.141873,0.061356,-0.00611,-0.013615,-0.026997,-0.020228,0.047417,0.005395,-0.011893,0.001376,0.01045,0.002784,-0.005737,0.005954,0.01169,-0.015632,0.002745,-0.03759,-0.007641,-0.008073,-0.075442
Igorot11:Igorot11,0.013659,-0.429569,-0.041106,-0.058463,0.137256,0.057451,-0.00423,-0.015461,-0.02127,-0.017495,0.039785,0.002248,-0.004906,-0.003028,0.013843,0.00769,-0.002347,0.004181,0.005279,-0.017133,0.003993,-0.028935,-0.006162,-0.011568,-0.056522
Igorot12:Igorot12,0.014797,-0.442771,-0.044123,-0.06783,0.146489,0.066097,-0.003055,-0.016153,-0.030065,-0.030616,0.051152,0.000599,-0.001784,0.000688,0.015065,0.001061,-0.014603,0.007728,0.013952,-0.022511,0.006364,-0.029306,0.004067,-0.011568,-0.07185
Igorot14:Igorot14,0.013659,-0.453942,-0.032809,-0.070414,0.146181,0.072233,-0.00329,-0.016845,-0.033542,-0.026606,0.049691,0.003297,-0.003122,-0.004542,0.012893,0.008353,-0.007693,-0.00038,0.01433,-0.019134,0.001747,-0.035117,-0.004807,-0.004217,-0.069455
Igorot15:Igorot15,0.014797,-0.436678,-0.047517,-0.066861,0.144335,0.061077,-0.00893,-0.020999,-0.028429,-0.021868,0.043358,0.008243,-0.001338,-0.003028,0.013165,0.007425,-0.006389,0.003801,0.008045,-0.015758,0.00262,-0.030419,-0.002095,-0.009037,-0.059875
Igorot16:Igorot16,0.015935,-0.439724,-0.0445,-0.06783,0.144027,0.064703,-0.003525,-0.017307,-0.027202,-0.026242,0.047255,0.002398,-0.00773,-0.010184,0.013029,0.011138,-0.004563,0.009375,0.012067,-0.017008,0.004866,-0.032273,0.001725,-0.011568,-0.069215
Igorot17:Igorot17,0.01935,-0.446833,-0.044877,-0.069768,0.147412,0.066376,-0.00188,-0.012461,-0.02802,-0.02442,0.051477,0.000599,-0.007284,-0.003303,0.017372,0.009414,-0.008214,0.003547,0.008799,-0.014757,0.006738,-0.032521,0.001602,-0.010845,-0.069694
Igorot18:Igorot18,0.015935,-0.445817,-0.047517,-0.067507,0.146489,0.060519,-0.001645,-0.016845,-0.030679,-0.013668,0.048229,0.005395,-0.003717,-0.00289,0.014115,0.007425,-0.009779,0.00266,0.01257,-0.021885,0.003119,-0.029677,-0.003821,-0.010122,-0.075562
Igorot19:Igorot19,0.020488,-0.44074,-0.040729,-0.07106,0.140949,0.07279,-0.0047,-0.012461,-0.033951,-0.017312,0.049204,0.007194,-0.009366,-0.006193,0.012215,0.010209,-0.003129,0.009755,0.014707,-0.020885,0.007986,-0.035983,-0.001109,-0.01217,-0.079873
Igorot20:Igorot20,0.014797,-0.441755,-0.047894,-0.062662,0.139411,0.061635,-0.004465,-0.012923,-0.023111,-0.016766,0.0544,0.004946,-0.008771,-0.008533,0.014658,0.004906,-0.007302,0.008488,0.012947,-0.015132,0.010482,-0.03116,-0.006039,-0.005543,-0.078795
Igorot21:Igorot21,0.01935,-0.450895,-0.046386,-0.068153,0.145258,0.065539,-0.000235,-0.020307,-0.02802,-0.027518,0.053588,0.002548,-0.004162,-0.002202,0.014522,0.006895,-0.005867,0.008361,0.011439,-0.02001,0.003494,-0.035736,-0.001602,-0.010242,-0.065503
Igorot22:Igorot22,0.01935,-0.451911,-0.047517,-0.070737,0.141257,0.067492,-0.003055,-0.014076,-0.028633,-0.024237,0.052614,0.003747,-0.005054,-0.00578,0.012351,0.006232,-0.006389,0.012922,0.019986,-0.022261,0.003993,-0.037961,0.002218,-0.009037,-0.069814
Igorot23:Igorot23,0.020488,-0.448864,-0.048649,-0.066215,0.142488,0.061914,-0.001645,-0.014076,-0.031088,-0.026971,0.046118,0.004046,-0.009217,-0.000826,0.013029,0.009944,-0.000652,0.000887,0.011564,-0.013381,0.001747,-0.03487,-0.007888,-0.003976,-0.068856

drobbah
03-04-2021, 05:21 PM
I'm not sure where in the Phils they are from. All I know is that they are non-Kankanaey aka non-tribal which means mainstream ethnic groups like Tagalog, Ilocano, Kapampangan, Cebuano, etc. In this case since they have actual Arab admixture, maybe they are indeed Muslims from Mindanao which is in the South close to Indonesia and Malaysia? Actually there are other Philippine samples as well but looks like they haven't been included into the G25 spreadsheet yet. Here they are if you also wanted to run them

Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
https://i.imgur.com/QoEZsIT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hmOcn5Y.jpg

J Man
03-04-2021, 05:35 PM
I find this thread rather interesting since I work with a number of Filipinos now. Quite a few have moved here within the last few years to work in Healthcare. Most of them seem to be from Mindanao so far....Very nice and hardworking people. :)

J Man
03-04-2021, 05:43 PM
Where did they find these Filipino samples? They seem to have legit Arab admixture unlike the Javanese and the vast majority of the muslims of the region besides the outliers,but only one of the samples has Iberian ancestry.

Target: Vizayan
Distance: 2.7395% / 0.02739548 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.8 TON_2500BP
8.0 Han
7.6 Onge
4.2 LAO_BA
2.4 Papuan

Target: Luzon
Distance: 2.2069% / 0.02206889 | ADC: 0.25x RC
81.6 TON_2500BP
15.6 Han
2.8 LAO_BA

Target: Filipino:GRC11053499
Distance: 3.1218% / 0.03121816 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.8 TON_2500BP
9.0 Han
1.8 Papuan
1.2 Onge
1.2 Yemeni

Target: Filipino:GRC10041276
Distance: 2.3222% / 0.02322211 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.8 TON_2500BP
25.2 Han
15.2 LAO_BA
2.2 Yemeni
1.6 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041275
Distance: 1.8956% / 0.01895560 | ADC: 0.25x RC
70.4 TON_2500BP
13.8 Han
12.8 LAO_BA
1.8 Yemeni
0.6 Papuan
0.6 Velamas

Target: Filipino:GRC10041274
Distance: 2.5440% / 0.02544035 | ADC: 0.25x RC
61.8 TON_2500BP
32.4 Han
2.8 Velamas
1.6 Onge
1.4 Papuan

Target: Filipino:GRC10041273
Distance: 1.7529% / 0.01752851 | ADC: 0.25x RC
77.0 TON_2500BP
15.0 Han
5.4 LAO_BA
1.4 Papuan
1.2 Onge

Target: Filipino:GRC10041272
Distance: 2.1956% / 0.02195575 | ADC: 0.25x RC
69.6 TON_2500BP
13.2 LAO_BA
9.6 Han
3.6 Spanish_Andalucia
3.2 Yemeni
0.8 Papuan



The other populations:
Target: Igorot
Distance: 4.3283% / 0.04328304 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.2 TON_2500BP
8.8 Han

Target: Aeta
Distance: 3.3371% / 0.03337113 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
37.6 Onge
7.4 Papuan

Target: Agta
Distance: 4.1704% / 0.04170381 | ADC: 0.25x RC
55.0 TON_2500BP
36.2 Onge
8.8 Papuan

Target: Batak
Distance: 2.7459% / 0.02745948 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.6 TON_2500BP
26.8 Onge
7.6 Papuan

I was wondering myself a bit about Arab admixture among Filipinos since some of them are Muslim with Arabic sounding surnames. I work with one woman who is originally from Mindanao and she has both an Arabic sounding first name and surname. When I asked her about her origins she told me that her family has a tradition that they have some ancestors who moved to the Phillipines from the Middle East a long time ago. She looks no different than any of the other Filipinos at my work though. If she does have any Arab ancestors they must have moved there many generations ago...Pretty interesting stuff anyway.

Megalophias
03-04-2021, 06:34 PM
Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.

drobbah
03-04-2021, 07:59 PM
Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.
Yes you are right I don't think the Igorot have real Han ancestry but some of the other Filipino samples still do with one outlier that gets 30% Han Chinese.I was using the Han_Shanxi as my source sample, I'm not really knowledgeable about East Asia, so I want to know is it better to use some of those Yellow River Neolithic samples as a source sample instead of modern Northern or Central Han?


https://i.imgur.com/B97h0kN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wOu8YiU.jpg

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 08:08 PM
Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
https://i.imgur.com/QoEZsIT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hmOcn5Y.jpg


With some Indian, Arab and European ancestry as well. I'm still baffled by how did the Arabs reached the Phils and mixed into the locals. Islamization of the archipelago before Spanish colonization? But then why do most other SE Asians don't exhibit Arab admixture? Maybe I will have to run Indonesian and Malay samples to compare.

I would also suggested adding the Murut, which is a modern tribal Austronesian group from Borneo, which really help improve the distance fits.

Mainstream Philippine populations
https://i.imgur.com/HHU3uT4.png

Ethnic minorities:
https://i.imgur.com/HTq0eNn.png

I wanted to see if the South Asian ancestry is real so decided to add Onge. Looks like the Indian ancestry is genuine as it is still there after the Onge is included in the run.

Mainstream Philippine populations:
https://i.imgur.com/Jb9eD6U.png

Ethnic minorities
https://i.imgur.com/5jrPhut.png

I am still fascinated by the fact that many Filipinos are scoring Arab ancestry which is strange. Also now it looks like the Igorots are not scoring any West Eurasian, but the Negritos (Aeta, Agta, Batak) have both Indian and West Eurasian admixture (Iran_N and Yemeni) despite adding Onge? Really peculiar. Could it be that there is also precolonial Indian admixture into the Negritos like into the mainstream Philippine ethnic groups?

I believe the Chinese ancestry in Pinoys actually come from multiple waves of Chinese traders and settlers who likely migrate to the Philippines from precolonial period to present day. It seems the Chinese trade with locals of the Phils probably as early as the 7th century along time ago before the arrival of the Spaniards: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/philippines/history-early-china.htm



Trade between China and the Philippines probably started centuries before the advent of the Sung Dynasty. The "A Collection of Data in Chinese Classical Books Regarding the Philippines" was published by the Institute of Southeast Asian History of Zhongsan (Sun Yat Sen) University, Guangzhou (1900). It states: “During the T’ang (Thang) dynasty China (in the 7th to the 9th century AD) the two peoples of China and the Philippines already had relatively close relations and material as well as cultural exchanges.”

During the Sung (960-1127 AD), Arab traders brought Philippine goods to southwestern China through the port of Canton. Chinese posts were established in coastal towns of the Philippines with the import of Chinese goods. The trade culminated when Chao Ju-Kua wrote of the barter trade between the Chinese and the natives of Mayi (Mindoro). The Chinese exchanged silk, porcelain, colored glass, beads and iron ware for hemp cloth, tortoise shells, pearls and yellow wax of the Filipinos.

The Chinese became the dominant traders in the 12th and 13th centuries during the Sung Dynaasty (960-1279 AD). The shift in the commerce between China and Southeast Asia saw Butuan send a tribute mission to the Sung emperor. The Chinese notice of Luzon appears to have instigated a new round of tributary missions in the early fifteenth century by Luzon, Pangasinan, and a polity known as Mao-li-wu [possibly Ma-i on Mindoro].

In fact it seems that kamote, a Philippine local type of potato, is popular among the Chinese dating back to the Ming Dynasty which help them survive during natural calamities and disasters which show there are like trading between the Phils and China very early back in history: https://pia.gov.ph/index.php/news/articles/1022429#:~:text=Early%20Chinese%20writings%20showe d%20that,beeswax%2C%20betel%20nut%20and%20pearls.

So if there is a lot of trading and other exchanges going on, I won't be surprised many Chinese also settled in the Philippines intermarried with the locals which probably lead to the high amount of Chinese blood in modern Filipinos.

Btw off topic, but in the SE Asian region, Thai people also have very significant Chinese ancestry, probably much more than Filipinos on average, as there were multiple waves of Chinese migrants into Thailand from Southern China for many centuries maybe even early as the Ayutthaya Period. In fact, around 14% of Thailand's population is believe to be ethnic Chinese, while those who have partial Chinese ancestry are definitely much higher in percentage of the population. I'm also of Chinese descent from Thailand myself. In fact, a Thai linguist claimed that around 40% of Thailand's population might have Chinese ancestors somewhere in their lineage although they don't considered themselves as Chinese. I'm not sure how reliable this is though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese#cite_note-Theraphan-1

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 08:18 PM
I was wondering myself a bit about Arab admixture among Filipinos since some of them are Muslim with Arabic sounding surnames. I work with one woman who is originally from Mindanao and she has both an Arabic sounding first name and surname. When I asked her about her origins she told me that her family has a tradition that they have some ancestors who moved to the Phillipines from the Middle East a long time ago. She looks no different than any of the other Filipinos at my work though. If she does have any Arab ancestors they must have moved there many generations ago...Pretty interesting stuff anyway.

Very interesting. I actually find it strange that there are Arab admixture among Pinoys from Luzon. Could it be that many of these Filipino samples are actually from Mindanao? That might be why they have some Arab ancestry. Maybe this gene flow arrived with the Arab traders who could have come to also introduce Islam and settled in the archipelago. Although according to that wikipedia source, only 2% of the population have partial Arab ancestry, it might actually be higher if these Pinoy individual samples are representative of the Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_the_Philippines#:~:text=Mahilum%2DWest%2C %20in%202016%20an,could%20claim%20partial%20Arab%2 0ancestry.

Btw since a lot of them are from Mindanao including her, have you ask them if they can speak Malay or Indonesian? Since it so close to those two nations, I would think that those from Mindanao would know some Bahasa Malay or Indonesian due to the cultural and religious links to them.

okarinaofsteiner
03-04-2021, 08:47 PM
Filipinos are basically Austronesian + Han Chinese. How did this Chinese ancestry become such a significant component among the Filipinos?
https://i.imgur.com/QoEZsIT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hmOcn5Y.jpg


Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains (https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse).


The Spanish presence in the Philippines was very light demographically over the centuries of their colonial rule. There was considerable residential segregation of the Spanish away from the natives, and the Chinese, who outnumbered the Spaniards often by two orders of magnitude.


Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.

The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.

Pylsteen
03-04-2021, 08:49 PM
In my old atlas from the Dutch East Indies (early 1920s), I read the following about Java's population: ~34,4 million natives, ~384,000 Chinese, ~135,000 Europeans, ~28,000 Arabs, ~3,000 British-Indians. Perhaps this was similar in the Philippines. Arabs had large trade networks throughout the Indian Ocean. The Chinese community was quite endogamous.

Dewsloth
03-04-2021, 09:10 PM
Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains (https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse).


The Spanish presence in the Philippines was very light demographically over the centuries of their colonial rule. There was considerable residential segregation of the Spanish away from the natives, and the Chinese, who outnumbered the Spaniards often by two orders of magnitude.
Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
Are you sure that is real Han Chinese ancestry? (What Han population are you using?) I put in Taiwan Hanben IA or Fujian LN for Island Southeast Asia to represent Austronesian ancestry without Lapita-specific drift, and then I don't see any Yellow River ancestry. OTOH there could be later Han-related ancestry in those samples that Lapita doesn't have, so maybe using Hanben IA or Fujian LN is misleading.



The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.

And yet, my father-in-law :confused:
Target: Dewsloth_FIL_scaled
Distance: 0.8758% / 0.00875763
33.6 Luzon
17.2 Igorot
12.8 Han_Sichuan
6.4 Spanish_Aragon
5.8 Han_Chongqing
5.0 Macedonian
3.6 Hawaiian
3.0 Sardinian
2.6 Htin_Mal
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
1.4 Bosnian
1.2 Aeta
1.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
1.0 French_South
1.0 Gadaba
1.0 Italian_Liguria
1.0 Kambera_Rindi
0.4 Zapotec
0.2 Maonan

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 09:23 PM
Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains (https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse).





The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.

Yep I utilized Han_Zhejiang as the proxy for the Chinese gene flow as Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong seem to have more Austronesian and Daic ancestry.

Off topic, but it seems like in the SE Asian region, Thais still have much more Chinese ancestry on average than Pinoys do. Heck, at least 14% of Thailand's population is ethnic Chinese while those who have partial Chinese ancestry is much higher in percentage of the Thai population. A Thai linguist even estimated that around 40% of Thai people have Chinese ancestors somewhere in their bloodline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese

Thailand seems to have the highest amount of Overseas Chinese in the world for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Chinese

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 09:25 PM
And yet, my father-in-law :confused:
Target: Dewsloth_FIL_scaled
Distance: 0.8758% / 0.00875763
33.6 Luzon
17.2 Igorot
12.8 Han_Sichuan
6.4 Spanish_Aragon
5.8 Han_Chongqing
5.0 Macedonian
3.6 Hawaiian
3.0 Sardinian
2.6 Htin_Mal
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
1.4 Bosnian
1.2 Aeta
1.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
1.0 French_South
1.0 Gadaba
1.0 Italian_Liguria
1.0 Kambera_Rindi
0.4 Zapotec
0.2 Maonan

What is his background if you don't mind me asking? Maybe the Macedonian, Sardinian, Bosnian, French and Italian comes from his Spanish ancestry (assuming his Euro ancestry is Iberian since that the main source of Euro admixture in Pinos)?

drobbah
03-04-2021, 09:39 PM
In my old atlas from the Dutch East Indies (early 1920s), I read the following about Java's population: ~34,4 million natives, ~384,000 Chinese, ~135,000 Europeans, ~28,000 Arabs, ~3,000 British-Indians. Perhaps this was similar in the Philippines. Arabs had large trade networks throughout the Indian Ocean. The Chinese community was quite endogamous.
The Javanese samples don't really show any Yemeni or African ancestry (Hadhramawt is heavily Bantu admixed) which isn't superising since once the Yemenis established and initially intermarry they probably remained quite endogamous.There was an Indonesian user descended from the famous Hashemite Ba'alawi clan and he was if I recall correctly predominantly Arabian + Horner with significant SE Asian & minor South Asian ancestry yet his family has been in Indonesia for generations according to him.

I do wonder why these Filipinos score Yemeni when there wasn't really much permanent Arab settlement over there.Perhaps this Yemeni ancestry was mediated by Malays from Borneo? But besides some Malay elites and royal houses I doubt that there was enough arab admixed Malays to impact the population.Either these samples are outliers from a specific muslim community or this is just noise imo.I am leaning toward the latter tbh

J Man
03-04-2021, 09:51 PM
Very interesting. I actually find it strange that there are Arab admixture among Pinoys from Luzon. Could it be that many of these Filipino samples are actually from Mindanao? That might be why they have some Arab ancestry. Maybe this gene flow arrived with the Arab traders who could have come to also introduce Islam and settled in the archipelago. Although according to that wikipedia source, only 2% of the population have partial Arab ancestry, it might actually be higher if these Pinoy individual samples are representative of the Philippines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_the_Philippines#:~:text=Mahilum%2DWest%2C %20in%202016%20an,could%20claim%20partial%20Arab%2 0ancestry.

Btw since a lot of them are from Mindanao including her, have you ask them if they can speak Malay or Indonesian? Since it so close to those two nations, I would think that those from Mindanao would know some Bahasa Malay or Indonesian due to the cultural and religious links to them.

I know that they all speak Tagalog since that seems to be the lingua franca of them all. There are a few from Luzon at my work as well. I can ask a few of them the next time that I see them at work if they can speak Malay or Indonesian.

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 10:02 PM
I know that they all speak Tagalog since that seems to be the lingua franca of them all. There are a few from Luzon at my work as well. I can ask a few of them the next time that I see them at work if they can speak Malay or Indonesian.

Yep thank you very much. I would expect the Muslim ones to know some Malay or Indonesian since they seem more culturally and religious closer to Indonesia and Malaysia than to their predominantly Christian neighbors to the north.

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 10:06 PM
The Javanese samples don't really show any Yemeni or African ancestry (Hadhramawt is heavily Bantu admixed) which isn't superising since once the Yemenis established and initially intermarry they probably remained quite endogamous.There was an Indonesian user descended from the famous Hashemite Ba'alawi clan and he was if I recall correctly predominantly Arabian + Horner with significant SE Asian & minor South Asian ancestry yet his family has been in Indonesia for generations according to him.

I do wonder why these Filipinos score Yemeni when there wasn't really much permanent Arab settlement over there.Perhaps this Yemeni ancestry was mediated by Malays from Borneo? But besides some Malay elites and royal houses I doubt that there was enough arab admixed Malays to impact the population.Either these samples are outliers from a specific muslim community or this is just noise imo.I am leaning toward the latter tbh

Well it seems like around 2% of the Phils population or around 2.2 million have partial Arab ancestry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_the_Philippines#:~:text=Mahilum%2DWest%2C %20in%202016%20an,could%20claim%20partial%20Arab%2 0ancestry.

You are right, these samples could come from a Moro/Muslim community in Mindanao or could be noise. If it is indeed noise, could these Arab affinities actually be Indian (Iran_N) or Spanish ancestry instead since these Filipinos also score them?

Dewsloth
03-04-2021, 10:18 PM
What is his background if you don't mind me asking? Maybe the Macedonian, Sardinian, Bosnian, French and Italian comes from his Spanish ancestry (assuming his Euro ancestry is Iberian since that the main source of Euro admixture in Pinos)?

I don't know, but he's clearly tied to the Mediterranean, maybe in more than one way, along more than one line. I'm pretty sure some of the ancestry is converso and/or morisco.

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 10:26 PM
I don't know, but he's clearly tied to the Mediterranean, maybe in more than one way, along more than one line. I'm pretty sure some of the ancestry is converso and/or morisco.

Does he have any documentation or genealogy of his family background?

Dewsloth
03-04-2021, 10:41 PM
Does he have any documentation or genealogy of his family background?

Nothing yet that helps much.

drobbah
03-04-2021, 10:41 PM
Well it seems like around 2% of the Phils population or around 2.2 million have partial Arab ancestry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_the_Philippines#:~:text=Mahilum%2DWest%2C %20in%202016%20an,could%20claim%20partial%20Arab%2 0ancestry.

You are right, these samples could come from a Moro/Muslim community in Mindanao or could be noise. If it is indeed noise, could these Arab affinities actually be Indian (Iran_N) or Spanish ancestry instead since these Filipinos also score them?
The source of that claim is the Filipino ambassador to Jordan.I think he made up that number for diplomatic purposes. Here are the Malays & Javanese in comparison:
https://i.imgur.com/7ApdMXf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O4G6kBf.jpg

Besides two Malay samples with Yemeni ancestry it is mostly absent same goes for the Javanese.These were places more frequented by Muslim traders from the Western Indian Ocean than the Philipines.

Here's Indonesian with a possible Horner (Somali?) or Horner admixed Arab ancestor

Target: Pantar22:GRC11053207
Distance: 2.6093% / 0.02609313
46.8 Papuan
38.8 TON_2500BP
9.0 LAO_BA
2.2 Han
1.4 SUDANESE7
1.0 LAO_LN_BA
0.8 Yemeni






The 23&me result of that Indonesian Ba'alawi user.
https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42513&d=1610538296

alchemist223
03-04-2021, 10:56 PM
Massive South Chinese immigration to the Philippines during the colonial era and the early 20th century. Razib Khan said they outnumbered the Spanish by around 100 to 1 at some point in his blog post/essay about stomach ulcer bacteria strains (https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse).





The Han_Zhejiang ancestry in the "less Austronesian" Luzon samples is probably real. Fujian_LN can't possibly have Han-related ancestry; it almost certainly predates the early Chinese state and the Chinese expansion towards the South China Sea coast.

I think Tsakhur used Han_Zhejiang even though the Chinese migrants to the Philippines were from further south, because Han_Fujian and Han_Guangdong have more Daic/Austronesian/Fujian_LN-like ancestry, which could skew the results.

Interestingly, I believe many of the "Spanish" colonists in the Philippines were soldiers/convicts from the New World, particularly from Mexico. Here is an interesting article about this: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/194092908.pdf. It still seems they have more Spanish than do Vietnamese/Cambodians have French ancestry, Indians/Malays with British ancestry, etc. Probably due to the shared religion (Roman Catholicism) between Spaniards and Filipinos.

Tsakhur
03-04-2021, 11:09 PM
Interestingly, I believe many of the "Spanish" colonists in the Philippines were soldiers/convicts from the New World, particularly from Mexico. Here is an interesting article about this: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/194092908.pdf. It still seems they have more Spanish than do Vietnamese/Cambodians have French ancestry, Indians/Malays with British ancestry, etc. Probably due to the shared religion (Roman Catholicism) between Spaniards and Filipinos.

You are correct. I have seen many 23andme and Gedmatch results from the Philippines and it looks like most Pinoys have at least 1-5% West Eurasian ancestry (mostly Iberian/Spanish). But I remember seeing some Filo Gedmatch results in which they have more South Asian (Iran_N) ancestry than Spanish which was really surprising to me. So it looks like there were some precolonial Indian settlers and traders in the Philippines as well as the archipelago used to have Indianized kingdoms before the arrival of the Spaniards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_influences_in_early_Philippine_polities And G25 seems to prove that the Indian ancestry in Filipinos are rather real just lower than other SE Asians.

passenger
03-05-2021, 12:10 AM
It still seems they have more Spanish than do Vietnamese/Cambodians have French ancestry, Indians/Malays with British ancestry, etc. Probably due to the shared religion (Roman Catholicism) between Spaniards and Filipinos.

That's very interesting, but if it's true, I doubt it has much to do with religion. More likely it is because of the longevity of Spanish colonialism in the Philippines. Even if there were, at most, only a couple thousand peninsulares or American criollos or mestizos going to the Philippines in a given year, the impact of this migration over more than three hundred years would not have been negligible, even if large sections of the population still exhibit no West Eurasian ancestry.

French colonization of Indochina was relatively short-lived (1887-1954) and Indochina was not seen as a settler colony.

British colonies in India were around for longer, and there was a significant "Eurasian" (mixed South Asian and British and/or Portuguese) population - maybe around 100,000 in the late 19th century (https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/13525/1/Anderson_3334.pdf). However, anti-miscegenation laws, social attitudes/mobility factors, post-Independence emigration and the sheer size of the Indian population probably greatly limited the overall impact of this demographic sector on the population as a whole.

alchemist223
03-05-2021, 12:29 AM
That's very interesting, but if it's true, I doubt it has much to do with religion. More likely it is because of the longevity of Spanish colonialism in the Philippines. Even if there were, at most, only a couple thousand peninsulares or American criollos or mestizos going to the Philippines in a given year, the impact of this migration over more than three hundred years would not have been negligible, even if large sections of the population still exhibit no West Eurasian ancestry.

French colonization of Indochina was relatively short-lived (1887-1954) and Indochina was not seen as a settler colony.

British colonies in India were around for longer, and there was a significant "Eurasian" (mixed South Asian and British and/or Portuguese) population - maybe around 100,000 in the late 19th century (https://eprints.soas.ac.uk/13525/1/Anderson_3334.pdf). However, anti-miscegenation laws, social attitudes/mobility factors, post-Independence emigration and the sheer size of the Indian population probably greatly limited the overall impact of this demographic sector on the population as a whole.

You're absolutely right, Spanish colonization in SE Asia lasted for far longer than Britain or France.

okarinaofsteiner
03-05-2021, 04:30 AM
Interestingly, I believe many of the "Spanish" colonists in the Philippines were soldiers/convicts from the New World, particularly from Mexico. Here is an interesting article about this: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/194092908.pdf. It still seems they have more Spanish than do Vietnamese/Cambodians have French ancestry, Indians/Malays with British ancestry, etc. Probably due to the shared religion (Roman Catholicism) between Spaniards and Filipinos.

French ancestry among Vietnamese is basically nonexistent lol, if Vietnamese results in r/23andMe are anything to go by.