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drobbah
03-10-2021, 03:52 AM
Just got my mtfull reusults from ftdna and I'm officially confirmed L0a1d.My closest match is an Ethiopian and there are various matches from Yemen (2 individuals) with one of them definitely being from hadhramawt based on his last name, an Ethiopian Jew from Israel and a Kikuyu from Tanzania.Is L0a1d an indigenous hunter-gatherer haplogroup from the Horn & parts of Kenya or was it brought by the Proto-Cushites from the North? There's not much material on the internet to read about most african L haplogroups let alone a restricted Eastern/SE African haplogroup like mine.

ThaYamamoto
03-10-2021, 04:49 AM
Dope stuff man. Would be interesting to see if you formed your own branch on yfull. Because of L0a1's high frequency in Central and Eastern Bantu I think that the rare L0a1d is definitely an indigenous EA hunter-gatherer group. I see a Zambian L0a1d on yfull. What would be interesting to see would be if L0a1 shares polymorphisms with L1/L2 clades like how L3b/L3e do. I had a paper that described this one time but I've lost it.

drobbah
03-10-2021, 06:32 AM
I uploaded it on to yfull's mtree hopefully they will add me on their next update.I assume that the Yemeni sample is my match from ftdna, so perhaps my sample, the Yemeni and perhaps one of the Kenyan samples would form a new subclade

NetNomad
03-18-2021, 07:53 PM
Just got my mtfull reusults from ftdna and I'm officially confirmed L0a1d.My closest match is an Ethiopian and there are various matches from Yemen (2 individuals) with one of them definitely being from hadhramawt based on his last name, an Ethiopian Jew from Israel and a Kikuyu from Tanzania.Is L0a1d an indigenous hunter-gatherer haplogroup from the Horn & parts of Kenya or was it brought by the Proto-Cushites from the North? There's not much material on the internet to read about most african L haplogroups let alone a restricted Eastern/SE African haplogroup like mine.

I'm leaning towards that the L0a1d variants in Somalis and other Horners mostly comes from Nilo-Saharan origins in Sudan. If I recall correctly, it was found in those Medieval Nubians as well, usually Paleolithic Horner lineages aren't found in Sudan.

Alfa
03-19-2021, 12:00 AM
I'm leaning towards that the L0a1d variants in Somalis and other Horners mostly comes from Nilo-Saharan origins in Sudan. If I recall correctly, it was found in those Medieval Nubians as well, usually Paleolithic Horner lineages aren't found in Sudan.

You are right. L0a1d L0f, L4b2a are old Mtdna (shared with Kenya/Tanzania/South East Africa Khoisan)and were found among Kenya Pastoral Neolithic South Cushites, in North Sudan & in the Horn of Africa.


Hima/Tutsi pastoralists descendants also carry the L0b, L0a1d, with L0f, L0f2a, L0f2b being more common, followed by L4b2a2b/L4b2a2a. Significant foragers lineages shared by Khoisans and South Cushites especially the Iraqw who have significant L0f clades.

drobbah
03-19-2021, 12:20 AM
I'm leaning towards that the L0a1d variants in Somalis and other Horners mostly comes from Nilo-Saharan origins in Sudan. If I recall correctly, it was found in those Medieval Nubians as well, usually Paleolithic Horner lineages aren't found in Sudan.
The medieval Nubians were L0a1a1 not L0a1d.My haplogroup is probably indigenous to the hunter-gatherers of East & South East Africa.

drobbah
03-19-2021, 12:33 AM
You are right. L0a1d L0f, L4b2a are old Mtdna (shared with Kenya/Tanzania/South East Africa Khoisan)and were found among Kenya Pastoral Neolithic South Cushites, in North Sudan & in the Horn of Africa.


Hima/Tutsi pastoralists descendants also carry the L0b, L0a1d, with L0f, L0f2a, L0f2b being more common, followed by L4b2a2b/L4b2a2a. Significant foragers lineages shared by Khoisans and South Cushites especially the Iraqw who have significant L0f clades.
Somalis from what I seen either carry L0a1d,L0f or L0a*.Never seen Somalis or Horners with L0b tho

NetNomad
03-19-2021, 12:43 AM
The medieval Nubians were L0a1a1 not L0a1d.My haplogroup is probably indigenous to the hunter-gatherers of East & South East Africa.

Probably I got it wrong here. However, I think most of the L2a in the Horn is definitely Nilo-Saharan. Also, L1b1a2a, L3b1a2 (Medieval Nubians had these two), and most of the L3f (especially L3f1a1b , most common L3f1a in Somalis).


Somalis from what I seen either carry L0a1d,L0f or L0a*.Never seen Somalis or Horners with L0b tho

I think I have seen one with really basal L0a'b'f* or something odd/rare once.

drobbah
03-19-2021, 12:53 AM
I think I have seen one with really basal L0a'b'f* or something odd/rare once.
Apparently L0b is supposedly exclusive to Ethiopia but I never seen it in Somalis.I would say the vast majority of Somalis L0 lineages are L0a1d.V4 testing Somalis like myself were only given L0a1 while all the V5 testing Somalis with L0a1 are L0a1d.

L0f is present but very minor but I'm not sure if it came from the North or if it was present in the Horn and South of it.The Baqah BA sample was L0f2a if I recall correctly.

Squad
03-19-2021, 10:55 PM
L0a is basically a signal of relic populations that are indigenous to East Africa. Its male counter part is mostly A-M13

GailT
03-21-2021, 04:20 AM
The medieval Nubians were L0a1a1 not L0a1d.My haplogroup is probably indigenous to the hunter-gatherers of East & South East Africa.

Have you checked Ian Logan's webpage for L0a1 (http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/l0a1_genbank_sequences.htm)? Ian shows the full set of mutations for each GenBank sample, so you can check to see if you share extra mutations with any of the L0a1d samples.

There is a 2013 paper by Rito et al. "The First Modern Human Dispersals across Africa" with a good description of L0. And more recently in Nature: "Human origins in a southern African palaeo-wetland and first migrations (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1714-1)"

Rito et al. estimate L0a to be about 42000 years old, and geographically it is very diverse, not only in east Africa but also the Middle East, SW Asia, Sicily. It's difficult to know if the non-Africa samples represent recent or ancient migrations from Africa. For example, there is a group of L0a* samples found only in Armenia defined by a set of 19 additional unique mutations, and they could represent a very ancient migration out of Africa.

drobbah
03-21-2021, 08:07 AM
@GailT Thank you for the source this was of great help.

All of those samples on the page were uploaded as well on yfull.Didn't realize there was a fellow Somali there the whole time (KF672820.1), a bunch of Oromos,Ethiopian Jews (Cushitic Agaw) and a few Ethiopians of unknown ethnicity and an additional three Yemenis (there are other Arabians from the Gulf who carry it as well on ftnda).This haplogroup is looking more like a local Horner HG haplogroup tbh.All the Kenyan samples are Samburu (neighbours of the Somaloid Rendille) apparently from the study they sourced these samples from.The lone Zambian sample probably got it from the Khoi pastoralists via other Bantu intermediaries and there are two Madagascar L0a1d but I wouldn't how exactly it arrived there but most probably with some Bantu speakers from regions that once had cushitic or cushitic admixed populations.

My subclade of L0a1d is most similiar to the lone Oromo sample and not the Somali sample, I share the snp 16293 (A16293G) which differentiates the Oromo L0a1d from the Somalis and the Ethiopian Jews (Northern Horners).I wouldn't be surprised if this lineage arrived alongside the increased Mota levels in my region due to the arrival of Oromo clans (Jaarso,Akisho and others) who were halted by the militaristic Somali clans during their 16th century migrations/conquests.My direct maternal great grandmother was an Isaaq Tol Jeclo woman from a farming village in Gabiley district.

L0a1d phylogenetic tree
https://i.imgur.com/a5iElI1.jpg

Arrival of the Oromo clans and their defeat in my region.They eventually settled down and became clients of Somalis who began cultivating and abandoning the nomadic camel herding lifestyle.
https://i.imgur.com/gaonomk.jpg

Alfa
03-22-2021, 01:10 AM
@GailT Thank you for the source this was of great help.

All of those samples on the page were uploaded as well on yfull.Didn't realize there was a fellow Somali there the whole time (KF672820.1), a bunch of Oromos,Ethiopian Jews (Cushitic Agaw) and a few Ethiopians of unknown ethnicity and an additional three Yemenis (there are other Arabians from the Gulf who carry it as well on ftnda).This haplogroup is looking more like a local Horner HG haplogroup tbh.All the Kenyan samples are Samburu (neighbours of the Somaloid Rendille) apparently from the study they sourced these samples from.The lone Zambian sample probably got it from the Khoi pastoralists via other Bantu intermediaries and there are two Madagascar L0a1d but I wouldn't how exactly it arrived there but most probably with some Bantu speakers from regions that once had cushitic or cushitic admixed populations.

My subclade of L0a1d is most similiar to the lone Oromo sample and not the Somali sample, I share the snp 16293 (A16293G) which differentiates the Oromo L0a1d from the Somalis and the Ethiopian Jews (Northern Horners).I wouldn't be surprised if this lineage arrived alongside the increased Mota levels in my region due to the arrival of Oromo clans (Jaarso,Akisho and others) who were halted by the militaristic Somali clans during their 16th century migrations/conquests.My direct maternal great grandmother was an Isaaq Tol Jeclo woman from a farming village in Gabiley district.

L0a1d phylogenetic tree
https://i.imgur.com/a5iElI1.jpg

Arrival of the Oromo clans and their defeat in my region.They eventually settled down and became clients of Somalis who began cultivating and abandoning the nomadic camel herding lifestyle.
https://i.imgur.com/gaonomk.jpg

Credit to this old Anthromadness blog, there are sample of Mtdna that were found in Somalia.
http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html?m=1

In the comment section of this anthromadness blog, there are knowledgeable people who commented about Somali/Horners Mtdna.

NetNomad
03-24-2021, 05:21 PM
drobbah

I have seen L0a1d a handful of times in Northeast Somali 23andMe relatives. This region tends to have the lowest Mota affinity in Somaliweyn (East Isaaqs as well), so not sure if it was introduced to Somalis through Oromos.

drobbah
03-24-2021, 05:34 PM
drobbah

I have seen L0a1d a handful of times in Northeast Somali 23andMe relatives. This region tends to have the lowest Mota affinity in Somaliweyn (East Isaaqs as well), so not sure if it was introduced to Somalis through Oromos.
I didn't say it was introduced by Oromos, I think you misunderstood me.

My specific subclade of L0a1d seems to be closest to the Oromo sample compared to the other L0a1d including the Somali sample.There's a good chance my haplogroup was brought to Fafaan and Western Somaliland (Gabiley district + Awdal) by the Oromos clans.My direct maternal line goes back to a Tol Jeclo woman from a farming village in Gabiley district.

drobbah
03-24-2021, 09:09 PM
Just found out my closest maternal match on ftnda with a genetic distance of 2 is a T-M70 Ethiopian (predicted T-Y16247) with a muslim name.Might be Oromo but he could also be from other muslim ethnicities in Ethiopia (Gurage,Harari,Afar,Argobba etc).After that individual I'm equally distant to a Kikuyu from Kenya who's earliest female ancestor is a Kikuyu from Tanzania (masai??), a southern Yemen and a Israeli Ethio Jew.This seems to confirm imo that I probably have a central Ethiopian variant of L0a1d

drobbah
04-29-2021, 01:24 AM
Yfull updated the mtree and it seems every sample on the L0a1d is now L0a1d1 and the age of the clade got even older, as of now L0a1d has a tmrca of 18700 ybp.The Bantus, Malagasy and African American samples belong to a younger downstream branch which suggests L0a1d probably arrived in South East Africa with the Cushites

Alfa
05-17-2021, 02:49 PM
drobbah

I have seen L0a1d a handful of times in Northeast Somali 23andMe relatives. This region tends to have the lowest Mota affinity in Somaliweyn (East Isaaqs as well), so not sure if it was introduced to Somalis through Oromos.

I know it is not related to this thread. Do you know if the eurasia Mtdna haplogroup " I " was found among Somali/Ethiopian/Eritreans? Reason I am asking, the Eurasian Mtdna " I " is more common than M/N among modern South Cushites, it is even found among Rendille.

drobbah
05-17-2021, 03:02 PM
I know it is not related to this thread. Do you know if the eurasia Mtdna haplogroup " I " was found among Somali/Ethiopian/Eritreans? Reason I am asking, the Eurasian Mtdna " I " is more common than M/N among modern South Cushites, it is even found among Rendille.
I've seen Somalis with I and our linguistic cousins the Rendille have one of the highest frequencies of I as well