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royaljoker
03-26-2021, 10:28 PM
Hi guys,

My mitochondrial dna is U2-T152C. Anyone know what the origins are for it?. Back when I did my test with nat geo it said that U2 had jewish diaspora and asians -though I might be remembering wrong. I'm south asian myself with no known jewish dna.

Edit: With no known jewish ancestry or dna*

tipirneni
03-26-2021, 11:36 PM
U2a
U2a: found in Central Asia (Turkmenistan) and South Asia (Pakistan, India)
U2a1
U2a1a ---- me
U2a1b
U2a2
U2b
U2b: found in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan), South Asia (Pakistan, India, Nepal) and Thailand
U2b1
U2b1a
U2b2 : found in Kazakhstan
U2c'd
U2c : found in Central Asia and South Asia (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh)
U2c1
U2c1a : found in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India
U2c1b : found in Pakistan and India


Do you have the final terminal clade ? U2 is found widely in South asia at low frequencies. It is probably from upper paleolithic Central Asia. Jewish probably got it from addition of population later. The original mtdna from Anatolian was K1, J2, X2 etc.. K1 is considered core Jewish mtdna. U2 is more Central Asia/Eurasian Steppe mtdna

royaljoker
03-27-2021, 09:32 AM
U2a
U2a: found in Central Asia (Turkmenistan) and South Asia (Pakistan, India)
U2a1
U2a1a ---- me
U2a1b
U2a2
U2b
U2b: found in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan), South Asia (Pakistan, India, Nepal) and Thailand
U2b1
U2b1a
U2b2 : found in Kazakhstan
U2c'd
U2c : found in Central Asia and South Asia (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh)
U2c1
U2c1a : found in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India
U2c1b : found in Pakistan and India


Do you have the final terminal clade ? U2 is found widely in South asia at low frequencies. It is probably from upper paleolithic Central Asia. Jewish probably got it from addition of population later. The original mtdna from Anatolian was K1, J2, X2 etc.. K1 is considered core Jewish mtdna. U2 is more Central Asia/Eurasian Steppe mtdna

I don't have a terminal clade yet. Hoping of doing a WGS with nebula once they move their lab from china.

My mum belong's to the Arain caste and from East Punjab originally, and so does the furthest extent of my maternal lineage ,mitochondrial lineage (which is actually only about three generations sadly). On FTDNA my mum gets quite a few european X-linked matches. I'm wondering if they picked it up from South Asia or if my mum's lineage is originally european. They dont have any known south asian ancestry, so I'm a little confused.

On Y-Full. (I'm not sure if I'm reading it right) it seems that downstream from U2-aT152C! theres U2c,U2d and U2e. The last two are almost entirely european. But Ftdna only gives me U2-T152C! so it might just be that I'm an entirely different branch from those.

Edit: U2-a also seems to be distinct from U2a

subzero85
03-27-2021, 02:16 PM
U2b2 seems to be the most abundant U in South Asians.

I have a UP Syed connection with U2e as their mtDNA.

tipirneni
03-28-2021, 02:05 AM
U2b2 seems to be the most abundant U in South Asians.

I have a UP Syed connection with U2e as their mtDNA.

Same with me. Even though I am U2a1a or b, I get big matches from U2e from those Xiongnu samples. Don't know if there are any connection or not

parasar
03-28-2021, 03:53 PM
Hi guys,

My mitochondrial dna is U2-T152C. Anyone know what the origins are for it?. Back when I did my test with nat geo it said that U2 had jewish diaspora and asians -though I might be remembering wrong. I'm south asian myself with no known jewish dna.

Edit: With no known jewish ancestry or dna*


U2-T152C! is parallel to U2b and U2a and U2-T152C! is upstream of U2c'd and U2e.

But I am still not convinced of the U2 phylogeny.

royaljoker
03-29-2021, 09:27 PM
U2-T152C! is parallel to U2b and U2a and U2-T152C! is upstream of U2c'd and U2e.

But I am still not convinced of the U2 phylogeny.

These matches with europeans that we get are quite recent as they show up on the autosomal matches (where they are identified as being X-linked). We haven't had any specific mtdna testing per se. But would it be right to assume that if we tested as U2e, that this maternal lineage was recent and colonially sourced. While if its U2c'd its the other way around. its likely to be native and went to these other europeans through south asian concubines that european colonials often had like Ochterlony.

parasar
03-29-2021, 09:58 PM
These matches with europeans that we get are quite recent as they show up on the autosomal matches (where they are identified as being X-linked). We haven't had any specific mtdna testing per se. But would it be right to assume that if we tested as U2e, that this maternal lineage was recent and colonially sourced. While if its U2c'd its the other way around. its likely to be native and went to these other europeans through south asian concubines that european colonials often had like Ochterlony.

That would depend on the clade of U2e.
"The only modern U2e* sample is from India."
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1884-haplogroup-U2&p=40157&viewfull=1#post40157

"There are 4 lineages of U2e:
U2e1 - found from Europe to India.
U2e2 - found from Europe to India.
U2e3 - just a few FMS samples found in Italy, Ireland and the Middle East
U2e* - a single sample from India"
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?533-Upper-Paleolithic-Mesolithic-European-mtDNA-Haplogroups&p=44469&viewfull=1#post44469

tipirneni
03-29-2021, 10:05 PM
These matches with europeans that we get are quite recent as they show up on the autosomal matches (where they are identified as being X-linked). We haven't had any specific mtdna testing per se. But would it be right to assume that if we tested as U2e, that this maternal lineage was recent and colonially sourced. While if its U2c'd its the other way around. its likely to be native and went to these other europeans through south asian concubines that european colonials often had like Ochterlony.

The U2e classification is not strickly European as surmised, rather we see many South asians have U2e show up on Gedmatch and other places. The Classification scheme for mtdna is not strick and error proof. My own classification is messy it moves between some subclades under U2a1 depending upon which ones to ignore and which ones to use

Bbgum
03-29-2021, 10:11 PM
U2b2 seems to be the most abundant U in South Asians.

I have a UP Syed connection with U2e as their mtDNA.

This is the one I have :) It's rooted in the indus valley civilization

royaljoker
03-30-2021, 08:53 AM
I Just remembered that I had downloaded the geographic results before they closed their website. Going back to the Genographic results it says i'm U2c. Dont know why my transfer to FTDNA didn't reflect that.

I guess with that it could be said that my maternal line is firmly asian and that the European matches were from the spread of U2 from colonialisation.

parasar
03-30-2021, 02:13 PM
http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/imgs/512/280/516768/516768_1471-2156-5-26-2.png

royaljoker
03-30-2021, 07:06 PM
http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/imgs/512/280/516768/516768_1471-2156-5-26-2.png

Wow U2c isn't so prominent in north India. On the other hand we have neither any known connection nor any matches with south/ west indians.

Nonetheless theres still some green over the east punjab area. And I guess thats us.

GailT
04-01-2021, 05:06 AM
I Just remembered that I had downloaded the geographic results before they closed their website. Going back to the Genographic results it says i'm U2c. Dont know why my transfer to FTDNA didn't reflect that.

Did you try uploading your Genographic results to James Lick's mthap webtool? It might identify a more specific subclade of U2c. Also, it might be worthwhile to test the full mtDNA sequence (I always recommend wait for one of the FTDNA sales before upgrading). The Yfull test should also give you a nearly complete full mtDNA sequence.

U2c is mostly found in southwest Asia and the subcontinent but there are also two U2c Ancient samples from Hungary and Scotland.

royaljoker
04-02-2021, 09:30 AM
No I had no idea about James Lick's mthap web tool. I'll check it out

I'm hoping on doing a WGS with Nebula once they move their lab from China.

Does that mean that U2c might have a European origin if it has ancient prince in hungary and scotland.

subzero85
04-02-2021, 01:59 PM
No I had no idea about James Lick's mthap web tool. I'll check it out

I'm hoping on doing a WGS with Nebula once they move their lab from China.

Does that mean that U2c might have a European origin if it has ancient prince in hungary and scotland.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta's mtDNA is U2c and his family's origin is from pre-partition Sindh.

parasar
04-02-2021, 03:38 PM
Did you try uploading your Genographic results to James Lick's mthap webtool? It might identify a more specific subclade of U2c. Also, it might be worthwhile to test the full mtDNA sequence (I always recommend wait for one of the FTDNA sales before upgrading). The Yfull test should also give you a nearly complete full mtDNA sequence.

U2c is mostly found in southwest Asia and the subcontinent but there are also two U2c Ancient samples from Hungary and Scotland.

GailT,
Which samples are those?
I also recall a U2c'd from France.

There are multiple U2c samples in the Iran/Turan/Swat paper.

GailT
04-04-2021, 03:54 PM
Sorry, I should have said pre-U2c for the two ancient European samples. They are U2 with only one of the three mutations that define U2c (they have A15061G but not C5790a T14935C). The Lipsom sample from Hungary (VEGI17a, Vinca_MN, 7200 ybp) and the Olalde sample I2634 from Neolithic Scotland are both U2 with A15061G. These samples would have diverged from U2c about 35,000 years ago, so probably not very relevant to U2c origins.



GailT,
Which samples are those?
I also recall a U2c'd from France.

There are multiple U2c samples in the Iran/Turan/Swat paper.

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 12:54 PM
Did you try uploading your Genographic results to James Lick's mthap webtool? It might identify a more specific subclade of U2c. Also, it might be worthwhile to test the full mtDNA sequence (I always recommend wait for one of the FTDNA sales before upgrading). The Yfull test should also give you a nearly complete full mtDNA sequence.

U2c is mostly found in southwest Asia and the subcontinent but there are also two U2c Ancient samples from Hungary and Scotland.

I no longer have access to Genographic so I got my FTDNA processed instead. I downloaded the FTDNA mtdna results but they weren't processing. So I had to reformat them. In the end Jame Lick's mthap web tool gave me Haplogroup H2a2a1. And is calling it a good match.

Here I've copied and pasted the web page:

mthap version 0.19b (2015-05-11); haplogroup data version PhyloTree Build 17 (2016-02-18) +mods
raw data source (Deleted by me for privacy)

rCRSdiff format was uploaded. Based on the markers found, assuming the following regions were completely sequenced: HVR1 (16001~16569) HVR2 (1~574) CR (575~16000).

Found 16630 markers at 16617 positions covering 100.0% of mtDNA.


Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

HVR2:
CR: 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C
HVR1: 16051G 16227G


Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) H2a2a1

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1:
HVR2:
CR:
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


1) H2a2a1c

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1c:
HVR2:
CR: 6632C
HVR1: 16051G

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1c (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 6632C 16051G ⇨ H2a2a1c ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(1): 16051G
Mismatches(1): 6632T
Extras(18): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16227G


2) H2a2a1g

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1g:
HVR2:
CR:
HVR1: 16189C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1g (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 16189C ⇨ H2a2a1g ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 16189T
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1b

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1b:
HVR2:
CR: 9299G
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1b (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 9299G ⇨ H2a2a1b ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 9299A
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1f

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1f:
HVR2: 93G
CR:
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1f (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 93G ⇨ H2a2a1f ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 93A
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1d

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1d:
HVR2:
CR:
HVR1: 16172C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1d (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 16172C ⇨ H2a2a1d ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 16172T
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a:
HVR2: 263G
CR:
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 263A
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1h

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1h:
HVR2:
CR:
HVR1: 16320T

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1h (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 16320T ⇨ H2a2a1h ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 16320C
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1a

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1a:
HVR2:
CR: 15314A
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 15314A ⇨ H2a2a1a ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 15314G
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


2) H2a2a1e

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1e:
HVR2:
CR: 8182T
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1e (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 8182T ⇨ H2a2a1e ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(1): 8182C
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


3) H2a2((A16235G))

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2((A16235G)):
HVR2: 263G
CR: 8860G 15326G
HVR1: (16235G)

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2((A16235G)) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ (16235G) ⇨ H2a2((A16235G)) ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(3): 263A 8860A 15326A (16235A)
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


3) H2a2

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2:
HVR2: 263G
CR: 8860G 15326G
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(3): 263A 8860A 15326A
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G


3) H2a2a2

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a2:
HVR2: 152C 263G
CR: 6716G
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a2 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 152C 6716G ⇨ H2a2a2 ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Mismatches(3): 152T 263A 6716A
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 12:57 PM
So at this stage would it seem that I'm not in fact U2 but rather H2a2a1 ??

In which case would Lick's tool be more reliable the geographic ?

MacUalraig
04-08-2021, 01:10 PM
Did you do a Genographic-FTDNA transfer and if so what did it report your mtDNA hg was? My recollection is they don't give the full hg details on transfer.
Do you still have the raw data from geno? Sounds rather odd.

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 01:30 PM
Did you do a Genographic-FTDNA transfer and if so what did it report your mtDNA hg was? My recollection is they don't give the full hg details on transfer.
Do you still have the raw data from geno? Sounds rather odd.

Yeah I did a Genographic - Ftdna transfer.

No longer have my geno raw data. Geno gave my maternal branch as U2c. Upon transfer as well as right now. FTDNA says I'm U2-T152C!

For this process I downloaded the FTDNA mtdna data. I'm the only person in my family with mtdna on FTDNA so I'm sure I haven't confused it with someone else.

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 03:15 PM
deleted

Megalophias
04-08-2021, 03:25 PM
So at this stage would it seem that I'm not in fact U2 but rather H2a2a1 ??

In which case would Lick's tool be more reliable the geographic ?
H2a2a1 is the reference sequence, whenever H2a2a1 comes up suspiciously it is wrong.

Here was the output you posted:

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2a2a1:
HVR2:
CR:
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2a2a1 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G

Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
Extras(19): 794A 1811G 3394C 4772C 5790A 5960T 8793C 10410C 11467G 12308G 12372A 12771A 13830C 13973T 14935C 15061G 15944C 16051G 16227G
So you have no markers of H2a2a1, but it is calling that a good match. :noidea:
With 19 "extra markers for this haplogroup" - which is all of them! These are your mutations not shared with H2a2a1 - that is under R, which is the common ancestor of U and H.

1811G 5790A 11467G 12308G 12327A 14935C 15061G 16051G are defining mutations for U2c.
The other 11 are apparently specific to your branch of U2c.

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 03:33 PM
deleted

royaljoker
04-08-2021, 03:35 PM
H2a2a1 is the reference sequence, whenever H2a2a1 comes up suspiciously it is wrong.

Here was the output you posted:

So you have no markers of H2a2a1, but it is calling that a good match. :noidea:
With 19 "extra markers for this haplogroup" - which is all of them! These are your mutations not shared with H2a2a1 - that is under R, which is the common ancestor of U and H.

1811G 5790A 11467G 12308G 12327A 14935C 15061G 16051G are defining mutations for U2c.
The other 11 are apparently specific to your branch of U2c.


Thanks a lot Megalophias. I guess that would mean I really am U2c.

GailT
04-10-2021, 04:26 AM
Thanks a lot Megalophias. I guess that would mean I really am U2c.

Yes, U2c, and with a long list of private mutations not found in other U2c samples (assuming the results were processed accurately at mthap). It would be worthwhile testing the full mtDNA sequence at FTDNA because your results are quite rare and unique.