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View Full Version : MtDNA distribution of Somali Benadiris.



Deftextra
04-11-2021, 07:47 PM
I collected the MTDNA lineages of n=65 relatives on 23andMe. Most of them are related to each other. They are all Benadiris from different clans and almost all of them are from either Mogadishu, Merka or Baraawe.


44255

drobbah
04-11-2021, 07:55 PM
Maternally they are almost entirely Somali

Deftextra
04-11-2021, 11:00 PM
Maternally they are almost entirely Somali

Yeah. The only two which are immediately obvious not Cushitic is H14a and M3. I am not sure about T1. I think I might have seen a few Somali T1's.

What surprised me is the lack of obvious bantu lineages (some might be if tested further) since we carry bantu admixture usually anywhere between 0-15%. This is probably because this admixture mostly came from bantu admixed males when they settled the coast.

ThaYamamoto
04-12-2021, 02:20 PM
Nice work bro, isn't L3b1a2 particularly Egypto-Sudanic? And aren't most clades of L3d Bantu?

Deftextra
04-12-2021, 02:36 PM
Nice work bro, isn't L3b1a2 particularly Egypto-Sudanic? And aren't most clades of L3d Bantu?

Some might actually be since I'm not that familiar with the some of the maternal lines and their respective origin.

Edit: looking at the Y-full (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3d/) tree right now, yeah seems you are right.

drobbah
04-12-2021, 02:38 PM
Nice work bro, isn't L3b1a2 particularly Egypto-Sudanic? And aren't most clades of L3d Bantu?
L3d is in the Horn as well.Maybe you are right about L3b1a2 but I wouldn't be surprised if we find that lineage among Horners as it's sister clade is present among Somalis.

Somalis on yfull:
L3d1a1*
L3d1a1a*

ThaYamamoto
04-12-2021, 02:47 PM
L3d is in the Horn as well.Maybe you are right about L3b1a2 but I wouldn't be surprised if we find that lineage among Horners as it's sister clade is present among Somalis.

Somalis on yfull:
L3d1a1*
L3d1a1a*

Yeah the NE African clades might very well be related with the proximity of the Nile Valley and Horn etc no doubt, I've seen a lot of Egyptians with the clade though.

L3d1a1a has a TRMCA of 1500bp and is shared with all those Luhya, Angolans, Madagascans and Zambians so would logically have to come from a Bantu lady at some point. The one Somali upstream at L3d1a1* is impossible to say atm though lol but likely Bantu I guess, considering there's Nigerians with the same clade too.

drobbah
04-12-2021, 03:57 PM
Yeah the NE African clades might very well be related with the proximity of the Nile Valley and Horn etc no doubt, I've seen a lot of Egyptians with the clade though.

L3d1a1a has a TRMCA of 1500bp and is shared with all those Luhya, Angolans, Madagascans and Zambians so would logically have to come from a Bantu lady at some point. The one Somali upstream at L3d1a1* is impossible to say atm though lol but likely Bantu I guess, considering there's Nigerians with the same clade too.
This will trigger some southerners lol but you are definitely right.I remember seeing some southern Somalis on 23andme with SE African without any MENA/South Asian (signal of Benadiri admixture),there was definitely some admixing between southern ethnic Somalis/Maay people and the various Bantu groups in the interriverine areas.

Deftextra
05-02-2021, 02:14 AM
L2a1's who are more downstream, L2a1c3 * 2 and L2a1c *1. Looks like many of the L2a1 are downstream L2a1c3. There are only Americans, Israeli, Slovak and Sudanese on this branch on y-full. Does anyone have more info about this particular branch? https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1c3/

drobbah
05-02-2021, 03:04 AM
L2a1-a seems to be the Horner variant of the L2a1 haplogroup with a bunch of Somalis falling under L2a1-a1a1 with a tmrca of 7600 ybp.I think L2a1c3 though might be Sahelian & West African which explains why it can be found in a Bedouin in Israel and in New World Black populations

Alfa
05-02-2021, 10:22 PM
This will trigger some southerners lol but you are definitely right.I remember seeing some southern Somalis on 23andme with SE African without any MENA/South Asian (signal of Benadiri admixture),there was definitely some admixing between southern ethnic Somalis/Maay people and the various Bantu groups in the interriverine areas.

I found this comment from a Somali familiar with their Mtdna interesting:

"If one carefully checks them, almost always the Bantu originated lineages can be differentiated from the older Nilo-Saharan lineages in the Horn.

Some examples (if you start reading this, by native I mean present in the region before ~5000 BC):

L3d1a1a with the back-mutation C150T is an undeniable Bantu lineage found even in Mozambique, Cameroon, Oman and Makrani coast of Pakistan. Clearly not native.

L3d1a2 and L3d1a1b (with mutation 146C) on the other hand appear to be a proto-Nilo-Saharan lineage found mainly in Chad, Sudan, and in Cushitic populations. It diverged from the above group around 18,000 years ago. This type is native & ancient to Somalia.

L3b, only two sub-types are possibly old in the Horn and that is L3b1b and L3b1a1a. Found in North Africans and Nilo-Saharan/Sahel groups but not Southeast Africans. Other variants are likely not and just recent additions. Rare overall.

There is an L1b lineage in the Horn that at face value might seem Bantu because of L1 in general, but it is actually not. This specific derived variant L1b1a2a with mutation 16289G exists in Cushite & Ethiosemite groups. Entered the region 11 kya (pre-Bantu). IMG: http://i.imgur.com/u8aSDJH.png . It is found in Egypt & Ethiopia. I believe this one is now native, but all other L1 lineages are likely not (especially L1c). Rare overall.

For L3f, almost all are native to the Horn, especially L3f2, L3f3, L3f1a, various kinds of L3f1b* (but not L3f1b1 (w C16292T) and L3f1b3-4 (C150T) L3f1b4 (A3505G) appear exogenous) and of course L3f* kinds are native. In general, most L3f is native, except a few specific ones.

As for L2a, this one is tough to analyze due to its age (27 kya) and widespread nature throughout Africa. It is mainly L2a1h, L2a1d, pre-L2a1h/d variants, L2a1r (6743C & 15924G), certain L2a1c (sub-type L2a1c3a (7858T) and pre-L2a1c5 [16129A!]), L2a1j (8764A, 14464G), some types of L2a1* (especially the 11016A mutated kind) are native to the Horn. Other L2a sub-lineages like L2a1a3 and L2a1b are not native and clearly exogenous.

L2b, only one derived sub-line L2b3c with mutation 12011C is autochthonous to the Horn. Ethioboy of ABF (Amharic mother) has this for example. Other L2b variants are not.

For L0, I think the following are native to the Horn (most): L0f, L0b, L0a1d, L0a1a1, L0a1c, some L0a2c variants, L0a2d, L0a3, L0a4.
The following are exogenous: L0a2a, L0a1b1, and L0a2b.
I am undecided on L0d3, but lean towards it not being native to the Horn because of its connection with the Sandawe.

Most other L lineages are much easier to analyze:

L3a – all kinds native.
L3i – all kinds native.
L3x – all kinds native.
L3e – all kinds exogenous.
L1c - all kinds exogenous.
L2c, L2e - all kinds exogenous.
L3c, L3j – all kinds native.
L3h – all kinds native.
L4 – all kinds native.
L5 – all kinds native (but very rare).
L6 – all kinds native.


Link: http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html?m=1

capsian
05-04-2021, 01:16 AM
I collected the MTDNA lineages of n=65 relatives on 23andMe. Most of them are related to each other. They are all Benadiris from different clans and almost all of them are from either Mogadishu, Merka or Baraawe.


44255


great

Deftextra
06-14-2021, 09:24 PM
I've been able to confirm 2*N1e'I. So far, our maternal lines mirror http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html?m=1
quite closely.

J-Live
07-20-2021, 12:41 AM
I found this comment from a Somali familiar with their Mtdna interesting:

"If one carefully checks them, almost always the Bantu originated lineages can be differentiated from the older Nilo-Saharan lineages in the Horn.

Some examples (if you start reading this, by native I mean present in the region before ~5000 BC):

L3d1a1a with the back-mutation C150T is an undeniable Bantu lineage found even in Mozambique, Cameroon, Oman and Makrani coast of Pakistan. Clearly not native.

L3d1a2 and L3d1a1b (with mutation 146C) on the other hand appear to be a proto-Nilo-Saharan lineage found mainly in Chad, Sudan, and in Cushitic populations. It diverged from the above group around 18,000 years ago. This type is native & ancient to Somalia.

L3b, only two sub-types are possibly old in the Horn and that is L3b1b and L3b1a1a. Found in North Africans and Nilo-Saharan/Sahel groups but not Southeast Africans. Other variants are likely not and just recent additions. Rare overall.

There is an L1b lineage in the Horn that at face value might seem Bantu because of L1 in general, but it is actually not. This specific derived variant L1b1a2a with mutation 16289G exists in Cushite & Ethiosemite groups. Entered the region 11 kya (pre-Bantu). IMG: http://i.imgur.com/u8aSDJH.png . It is found in Egypt & Ethiopia. I believe this one is now native, but all other L1 lineages are likely not (especially L1c). Rare overall.

For L3f, almost all are native to the Horn, especially L3f2, L3f3, L3f1a, various kinds of L3f1b* (but not L3f1b1 (w C16292T) and L3f1b3-4 (C150T) L3f1b4 (A3505G) appear exogenous) and of course L3f* kinds are native. In general, most L3f is native, except a few specific ones.

As for L2a, this one is tough to analyze due to its age (27 kya) and widespread nature throughout Africa. It is mainly L2a1h, L2a1d, pre-L2a1h/d variants, L2a1r (6743C & 15924G), certain L2a1c (sub-type L2a1c3a (7858T) and pre-L2a1c5 [16129A!]), L2a1j (8764A, 14464G), some types of L2a1* (especially the 11016A mutated kind) are native to the Horn. Other L2a sub-lineages like L2a1a3 and L2a1b are not native and clearly exogenous.

L2b, only one derived sub-line L2b3c with mutation 12011C is autochthonous to the Horn. Ethioboy of ABF (Amharic mother) has this for example. Other L2b variants are not.

For L0, I think the following are native to the Horn (most): L0f, L0b, L0a1d, L0a1a1, L0a1c, some L0a2c variants, L0a2d, L0a3, L0a4.
The following are exogenous: L0a2a, L0a1b1, and L0a2b.
I am undecided on L0d3, but lean towards it not being native to the Horn because of its connection with the Sandawe.

Most other L lineages are much easier to analyze:

L3a all kinds native.
L3i all kinds native.
L3x all kinds native.
L3e all kinds exogenous.
L1c - all kinds exogenous.
L2c, L2e - all kinds exogenous.
L3c, L3j all kinds native.
L3h all kinds native.
L4 all kinds native.
L5 all kinds native (but very rare).
L6 all kinds native.


Link: http://anthromadness.blogspot.com/2015/08/somali-mtdna-frequencies.html?m=1

I appreciate that the blog comment is relatively old, but L3b1b and L3b1a1a being native to the Horn doesn't hold up well at all imo.