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J Man
04-03-2014, 12:36 AM
It is now quite clear that mtDNA haplogroup U and namely it's subclades U5, U4 and U2 made up a very substantial part of the maternal lineages of Eurasian hunter-gatherers in pre-historic times and extended all the way from Iberia in the far west of Eurasia deep into Siberia in the far east where they mixed with East Asian (Mongoloid) type peoples at some points in the past. These ancient mtDNA haplogroup U peoples in Siberia were probably ancient Caucasoid Cro-Magnon types when it comes to phenotype. We know that U types mainly of the U5, U4 and U2 types made up the majority of maternal lineages among ancient European Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and interestingly enough U types have appeared among Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers from much further east into Siberia. It would seem then that the presence of mtDNA haplogroup U in Eurasia then is extremely old. Some of the U subclades were probably present among the earliest farming peoples of the Near East as well such as the U3 and K (subclade of U8) subclades. In this thread though I am focusing on the U types that were present among the ancient hunter-gatherer peoples of Eurasia who adopted farming later on after it spread out of the Near East. It is probably pretty safe now to say that the original Cro-Magnons of Europe would have carried quite a bit of mtDNA haplogroup U among them. Actually some ancient results from Kostenki in Russia and Dolni Vestonice in Czech Rep. have shown that these Cro-Magnon type peoples did possess U types. These tables with ancient DNA results that I will link below shows how widespread U types were among Eurasian hunter-gatherers from the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic ages. It seems that after the Neolithic many of these U lineages were replaced especially in Europe by new haplogroups arriving mainly or at least expanding mainly with Neolithic farming communities carrying a whole new array of mtDNA haplogroups such as T, J, H, K (U subclade) and more.

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/palaeolithicdna.shtml

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

parasar
04-03-2014, 02:03 AM
It is now quite clear that mtDNA haplogroup U and namely it's subclades U5, U4 and U2 made up a very substantial part of the maternal lineages of Eurasian hunter-gatherers in pre-historic times and extended all the way from Iberia in the far west of Eurasia deep into Siberia in the far east where they mixed with East Asian (Mongoloid) type peoples at some points in the past. These ancient mtDNA haplogroup U peoples in Siberia were probably ancient Caucasoid Cro-Magnon types when it comes to phenotype. We know that U types mainly of the U5, U4 and U2 types made up the majority of maternal lineages among ancient European Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and interestingly enough U types have appeared among Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers from much further east into Siberia. It would seem then that the presence of mtDNA haplogroup U in Eurasia then is extremely old. Some of the U subclades were probably present among the earliest farming peoples of the Near East as well such as the U3 and K (subclade of U8) subclades. In this thread though I am focusing on the U types that were present among the ancient hunter-gatherer peoples of Eurasia who adopted farming later on after it spread out of the Near East. It is probably pretty safe now to say that the original Cro-Magnons of Europe would have carried quite a bit of mtDNA haplogroup U among them. Actually some ancient results from Kostenki in Russia and Dolni Vestonice in Czech Rep. have shown that these Cro-Magnon type peoples did possess U types. These tables with ancient DNA results that I will link below shows how widespread U types were among Eurasian hunter-gatherers from the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic ages. It seems that after the Neolithic many of these U lineages were replaced especially in Europe by new haplogroups arriving mainly or at least expanding mainly with Neolithic farming communities carrying a whole new array of mtDNA haplogroups such as T, J, H, K (U subclade) and more.

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/palaeolithicdna.shtml

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

I would not disagree with it being very old, say 45000 ybp for R-U, but I have a feeling that when it entered Europe some other mtDNA types were already there. I think U came in with the mammoth hunters.
Let's see if that Svante Pääbo test reports U or R in middle upper Siberia 45000ybp.

GailT
04-03-2014, 04:27 AM
I would not include U2, U4 and U5 in the same population movements. The earliest U2 in Europe, at Kostenki, Russia, is an extinct branch of U2. U2a, U2b, U2c, and U2d are found primarily from South Asia to the Near East. The earliest U2e in Europe is Blätterhöhle, Germany dated at about 11 kya, but a full sequence is not available for this sample. The greatest diversity in U4 is in Russia, Siberia and eastern Europe, so I'd guess that it expanded from an Ukraine or eastern Europe refugium, while U5 seems to have expanded mostly from southern European refugia.

Hopefully we will see more pre-LGM full sequences, but at present the only pre-LGM samples in Europe are the Dolni Vestonice samples, an extinct U8c lineage and the two U5 samples (now officially U5 with the recent Phylotree update), and Mal'ta in Siberia, an extinct U*, and Kosteki and extinct U2.

My guess is that people were extremely mobile and that with more pre-LGM samples, we will find other U haplogroups and other non-U haplgroups as well, but it may be unlikely that some of these lineages survived the LGM. One of the more interesting results of the ancient mtDNA is that there was a great deal of diversity that apparently did not survive to the present.

Baltimore1937
04-03-2014, 04:32 AM
And not to forget Neanderthals were still in Europe c. 45,000 years ago when U and R, etc. moved into western Europe.

J Man
04-03-2014, 03:12 PM
I would not include U2, U4 and U5 in the same population movements. The earliest U2 in Europe, at Kostenki, Russia, is an extinct branch of U2. U2a, U2b, U2c, and U2d are found primarily from South Asia to the Near East. The earliest U2e in Europe is Blätterhöhle, Germany dated at about 11 kya, but a full sequence is not available for this sample. The greatest diversity in U4 is in Russia, Siberia and eastern Europe, so I'd guess that it expanded from an Ukraine or eastern Europe refugium, while U5 seems to have expanded mostly from southern European refugia.

Hopefully we will see more pre-LGM full sequences, but at present the only pre-LGM samples in Europe are the Dolni Vestonice samples, an extinct U8c lineage and the two U5 samples (now officially U5 with the recent Phylotree update), and Mal'ta in Siberia, an extinct U*, and Kosteki and extinct U2.

My guess is that people were extremely mobile and that with more pre-LGM samples, we will find other U haplogroups and other non-U haplgroups as well, but it may be unlikely that some of these lineages survived the LGM. One of the more interesting results of the ancient mtDNA is that there was a great deal of diversity that apparently did not survive to the present.

Are there any pre-LGM mtDNA lines that survived down to the present day in Europe do you think?

GailT
04-04-2014, 01:11 AM
Are there any pre-LGM mtDNA lines that survived down to the present day in Europe do you think?

The two Dolni Vestonice U5 samples show continuity from the pre-LGM to the the Mesolithic. But given that there are only 5 reliable pre-LGM mtDNA samples from Eurasia, it is possible that other haplogroups might also have continuity. We need a much larger pre-LGM sample size.

J Man
04-05-2014, 06:52 PM
The two Dolni Vestonice U5 samples show continuity from the pre-LGM to the the Mesolithic. But given that there are only 5 reliable pre-LGM mtDNA samples from Eurasia, it is possible that other haplogroups might also have continuity. We need a much larger pre-LGM sample size.

I think that pretty much all or at least the vast majority of the U5 individuals in Europe today or descended from Europeans have direct maternal lines that have been in Europe since the Upper Paleolithic.

GailT
04-06-2014, 04:16 AM
I think that pretty much all or at least the vast majority of the U5 individuals in Europe today or descended from Europeans have direct maternal lines that have been in Europe since the Upper Paleolithic.

I think it's possible that some U5 migrated to the east, and may have been incorporated into farmer or herder cultures, and then returned to central and western Europe with migrations of farmers, and perhaps later, migrations of Indo-European speakers to Europe. This seem especially possible with the larger subclades of U5a1 and U5a2 which seem to have expanded rapidly in size and diversity around 8000 to 6000 years ago. While we have a U5a2a ancient mtDNA samples in Germany, the large size and variability in U5a2a1 might suggest a different history for U5a2a1 compared to its sister clades. The same might be true for U5a1a, U5a1b, and U5a2b.

J Man
04-06-2014, 04:28 AM
I think it's possible that some U5 migrated to the east, and may have been incorporated into farmer or herder cultures, and then returned to central and western Europe with migrations of farmers, and perhaps later, migrations of Indo-European speakers to Europe. This seem especially possible with the larger subclades of U5a1 and U5a2 which seem to have expanded rapidly in size and diversity around 8000 to 6000 years ago. While we have a U5a2a ancient mtDNA samples in Germany, the large size and variability in U5a2a1 might suggest a different history for U5a2a1 compared to its sister clades. The same might be true for U5a1a, U5a1b, and U5a2b.

And what do you think about my own mtDNA U5b2c2 clade? Most likely an origin among the West European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers who's ancestors spent the LGM in Iberia?

GailT
04-06-2014, 06:49 AM
And what do you think about my own mtDNA U5b2c2 clade? Most likely an origin among the West European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers who's ancestors spent the LGM in Iberia?

Yes, Iberian or perhaps Franco-Catabrian. U5b seems to have a more western origin compared to U5a.

Flatiron
04-08-2014, 01:28 PM
Yesterday, using my FGC results (received last week; part of Batch 5), I learned from the "jameslick" calculator that I am U5a1a1.

jeanL
04-08-2014, 03:15 PM
Per 23andme my maternal grandfather's mt-DNA is U4b, however using "jameslick" calculator, it turns out it is really U4b3. Anyone knows where this haplogroup is common, or at least found?

evon
04-08-2014, 03:49 PM
For data on mtDNA presence:

http://ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/haplogroup_select.htm

jeanL
04-09-2014, 01:36 AM
For data on mtDNA presence:

http://ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/haplogroup_select.htm

Per that site:

U4b3 215G

85. EU007874 (Kchanti) Ingman_gyll U4b3 13-SEP-2007 A73G T195C A215G A263G 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C G499A 523.1C 523.2A A750G A2706G C3204T A3434G T4646C A4769G T5999C A6047G C7028T T7705C A8860G C11332T A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C T16356C T16519C

86. GU727823 FTDNA U4b3 22-FEB-2010 A73G T195C A215G A263G 309.1C 315.1C G499A 523.1C 523.2A A750G A1438G A1811G A2706G T4646C A4769G T5628C T5999C A6047G C7028T T7705C A8860G G9921A C11332T A11467G G11719A G12236A A12308G G12372A C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C T16356C C16360T T16519C

87. FJ147322(Russia) Mazunin U4b3 01-JUL-2010 A73G T195C A215G A263G G499A A750G A1438G A1811G A2706G C3204T A3434G T4646C A4769G T5999C A6047G C7028T T7705C A8860G C11332T A11467G G11719A A12308G G12372A C14620T C14766T A15326G T15693C T16356C T16519C


So seems Russian then?

Rathna
04-09-2014, 08:47 AM
So seems Russian then?

It is true that two of these samples out of three come from Russia (Kchanti are an Uralic people of Siberia), but the third sample has been tested in USA and could be important to know his origins. The two Russian samples have many mutations and back mutations and separated from the third many thousands of years ago, and this hg. U4b3 could be also one of the haplogroups that migrated from Western Europe to the Eastern one as the same Malyarchuk says. Probably to know the mutations of your ancestor could help.

P.S. From SMGF we have:
73G 195C 215G 263G 309.1C 315.1C 499A 16356C 16519C
1 sample from Kyrgyzstan
a) + 16093C samples from Scandinavia
b) + 16278T samples from scandinavia and with 309.2C many samples from USA
thus it seems the haplogroup of hunter-gatherers from Western Europe to Siberia.

jeanL
04-09-2014, 12:06 PM
Here are my grandfather's extra mutations:

HVR2: 73G 215G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 1438G 1811G 2706G 4418C 4646C 4769G 5999C 6047G 7028T 7403G 7705C 8860G 11467G 11696A 11719A 12308G 12372A 14620T 14766T 15693C
HVR1: 16129A 16356C

IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.


Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) U4b3

Defining Markers for haplogroup U4b3:
HVR2: 73G 195C 215G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 1438G 1811G 2706G 4646C 4769G 5999C 6047G 7028T 7705C 8860G 11332T 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 14620T 14766T 15326G 15693C
HVR1: 16356C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup U4b3 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 1811G ⇨ U2'3'4'7'8'9 ⇨ 195C 499A 5999C ⇨ U4'9 ⇨ 4646C 6047G 11332T 14620T 15693C 16356C ⇨ U4 ⇨ 7705C ⇨ U4b ⇨ 215G ⇨ U4b3 ⇨ 4418C 7403G 11696A 16129A

Perfect Match.

Matches(22): 73G 215G 263G 499A 750G 1438G 1811G 2706G 4646C 4769G 5999C 6047G 7028T 7705C 8860G 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 14620T 14766T 15693C 16356C

Extras(4): 4418C 7403G 11696A 16129A
No-Calls(1): 195C
Untested(2): 11332 15326

Of course, this is only using 23andme, so he might have many more, if I was to do a FMGS.

Rathna
04-09-2014, 01:31 PM
Jean, let it be (Beatles) James Lick and his calculations. Your grandfather's mt has:
1438G 1811G and not a back mutation, thus he is different from the Kchanti and from the Russian who have also C3204T and A3434G;
4418C 7403G 11696A 16129A like his own mutations that nobody else has,
thus, even though not completely tested, he is an autonoumus line of U4b3.
I'd be curious to know his maternal origin, because this haplogroup has been found so far only in Northern Europe and Russia, also because it seems that your ancestors come all from Latin Southern Europe and Basque country as your surname says.

jeanL
04-09-2014, 02:08 PM
I'd be curious to know his maternal origin, because this haplogroup has been found so far only in Northern Europe and Russia, also because it seems that your ancestors come all from Latin Southern Europe and Basque country as your surname says.

That's what I am trying to figure out, his last known maternal ancestor was Doña Maria de la Candelaria(No surname), her daughter was Doña Juana Maria del Rosario Pacheco(<=This is the paternal surname, but she doesn't show her maternal surname), she was born in Bejucal, La Habana, Cuba circa 1770s, however the problem is that the records are in very poor condition, so I don't even have the lastname of Maria de la Candelaria, but given her middle name "de la Candelaria" it would suggest a link to the virgin of "La Candelaria" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_of_Candelaria), so perhaps she had Canary Islander ancestry like many Cubans do, however her maternal origin is still a mystery.

Rathna
04-09-2014, 02:12 PM
From the haplotype, different from the Northern European ones and not linked to the Russian-Siberian ones, it seems that it is just from Southern Europe, or at least Northern Africa, anyway come out from the Franco-Cantabrian Refugium.

P.S. And all the haplogroup could have come out from there: we have other samples that reached North Africa and Northern-Eastern Europe...

J Man
04-29-2014, 04:04 PM
I have thought about this a bit more with the recent results of more stone age hunter-gatherers from Sweden. Their mtDNA haplogroups were all U types again and their autosomal DNA was again very similar to that of La Brana and Lochsbour.

Hando
12-07-2014, 05:11 AM
I think it's possible that some U5 migrated to the east, and may have been incorporated into farmer or herder cultures, and then returned to central and western Europe with migrations of farmers, and perhaps later, migrations of Indo-European speakers to Europe. This seem especially possible with the larger subclades of U5a1 and U5a2 which seem to have expanded rapidly in size and diversity around 8000 to 6000 years ago. While we have a U5a2a ancient mtDNA samples in Germany, the large size and variability in U5a2a1 might suggest a different history for U5a2a1 compared to its sister clades. The same might be true for U5a1a, U5a1b, and U5a2b.

When you say "East" do you mean Eastern Europe or further east as in the Near East and East Asia?

Hando
12-07-2014, 05:12 AM
I would not include U2, U4 and U5 in the same population movements. The earliest U2 in Europe, at Kostenki, Russia, is an extinct branch of U2. U2a, U2b, U2c, and U2d are found primarily from South Asia to the Near East. The earliest U2e in Europe is Blätterhöhle, Germany dated at about 11 kya, but a full sequence is not available for this sample. The greatest diversity in U4 is in Russia, Siberia and eastern Europe, so I'd guess that it expanded from an Ukraine or eastern Europe refugium, while U5 seems to have expanded mostly from southern European refugia.

Hopefully we will see more pre-LGM full sequences, but at present the only pre-LGM samples in Europe are the Dolni Vestonice samples, an extinct U8c lineage and the two U5 samples (now officially U5 with the recent Phylotree update), and Mal'ta in Siberia, an extinct U*, and Kosteki and extinct U2.

My guess is that people were extremely mobile and that with more pre-LGM samples, we will find other U haplogroups and other non-U haplgroups as well, but it may be unlikely that some of these lineages survived the LGM. One of the more interesting results of the ancient mtDNA is that there was a great deal of diversity that apparently did not survive to the present.
What "same population movements" are you referring to? Who else would belong to this population movement?

GailT
12-07-2014, 07:10 AM
When you say "East" do you mean Eastern Europe or further east as in the Near East and East Asia?

My guess is that during the Mesolithic after the LGM, U5 hunter-gatherers expanded from southern Europe into central and northern Europe and also migrated east to eastern Europe, the Steppe region and central Asia. It is also possible that U5a was located in the Balkans or even further east during the LGM and might have expanded into the Steppe, and eastern Europe directly from Ukraine. But some U5b1 subclades are found speciffically in eastern Europe, so we know that there were Mesolithic mugrations of U5 from western to eastern Europe.

Regarding population movements I think that U2 & U4 have different migraton histories compared to U5 which we know was in Europe before the LGM. My guess is that U2 and U4 originated further east (eastern Europe and Russia) and migrated to western Europe during the Mesolithic. They might have migrated from northern Russia to Scandinavia as described here (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00293652.2013.770416#preview).

kenji.aryan
12-07-2014, 06:17 PM
What about u7

J Man
12-07-2014, 06:27 PM
What about u7


What about U7?

GailT
12-07-2014, 07:27 PM
U7a is estimated by Behar et al. to be about 17,000 years old and is mostly found today in the region from Iran to India.
U7b is estimated to be about 10,000 years old and is mostly found in Europe and also in Iran and Pakistan. Perhaps it spread from eastern Europe with Indo-European or earlier migrations.

There is one interesting pre-U7 sample from [corrected] India, GU480003. Not sure what to make of that - we need more samples of that branch.

J Man
12-07-2014, 07:50 PM
U7a is estimated by Behar et al. to be about 17,000 years old and is mostly found today in the region from Iran to India.
U7b is estimated to be about 10,000 years old and is mostly found in Europe and also in Iran and Pakistan. Perhaps it spread from eastern Europe with Indo-European or earlier migrations.

There is one interesting pre-U7 sample from Mexico, GU480003. Not sure what to make of that - we need more samples of that branch.

Wow that actually is quite interesting. Have any other pre-U7 samples been found anywhere?

GailT
12-07-2014, 10:22 PM
Wow that actually is quite interesting. Have any other pre-U7 samples been found anywhere?

No, just that one, and I was mistaken or the origin, this sample is from Madhya Pradesh, India from a study of central Indian tribal populations.

GU480003 lacks two of the defining mutations for U7: 5360, 14569 and it has 10 mutations that are unique within U7, so that would suggest an age of about 20,000 to 25,000 years for the branch point between this sample and all other U7. There are also two U7* samples from Turkey and India, so it seems very likely U7 originated in southwest or south Asia.

J Man
02-28-2015, 11:53 PM
We can add in the new Samara U5a1d sample to the list as well.

J Man
09-08-2015, 04:35 PM
Quite an interesting quote from the recent study/paper about Ket DNA. It comes from this study/paper.

Genomic study of the Ket: a Paleo-Eskimo-related ethnic group with significant ancient North Eurasian ancestry

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/08/13/024554.full-text.pdf+html

''the frequency of mitochondrial haplogroup U4, predominant in Kets, correlated with proportion
of the Ket-Uralic admixture component...Remarkably, ancient European hunter-gatherers had haplogroup U
with >80% frequency45-47, and the Mal'ta individual also belonged to a basal branch of haplogroup
U without affiliation to known subclades20. Therefore, haplogroup U, especially its U4 and U5
branches48, may be considered as a marker of West European hunter-gatherer (WHG) and ANE
ancestry. In this light, high prevalence of haplogroup U4 in Kets and Selkups (Suppl. file S8)
correlates well with large degrees of ANE ancestry in these populations.''

J Man
11-15-2015, 01:29 PM
I just noticed these ancient samples on Jean's ancient DNA page. Too bad they could not get better resolution for their mtDNA haplogroup results.

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [C130L] 6000 BC UK/V? –9052 HaeII , +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI, +4643 RsaI, 16298C, 16319A Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [C130R2a ] 6000 BC U-K +8249/ AvaII, –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16093C/t, 16223T/c, 16224T/c, 16293A/g, 16311C, 16319A/g, 16355T/c Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [ED140, Oo23, Pp240] 6000 BC U-K 3 samples +8249/ AvaII, –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16093C/t, 16223T/c, 16224T/c, 16293A/g, 16311C, 16319A/g, 16355C/t Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [Nn200] 6000 BC W? +8249/ AvaII –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI +10394 DdeI –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16016C, 16017C, 16223T, 16292T, 16311C, 16319A Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [Nn220-1 and Nn220-2] 6000 BC U-K 2 samples –9052 HaeII +12308 HinfI +10394 DdeI –9053 HhaI +4643 RsaI, 16093C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16355T Pitulko 2015


http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

GailT
11-17-2015, 04:51 AM
The new ancient mtDNA samples from the Jones et al Nature paper are very interesting, a new K3 sample for this extremely rare group with only 2 published samples. The "U5b1h" sample might actually be an earlier branch point in U5b1a. It has has the U5b1a defining mutation T7028C but lacks T15097C. The U5b1h defining mutation A384G is not common but it is found in a U5b1b1f sample so it could be a parallel mutation. The odd thing about U5b1h is that it appears to be extremely young based on five modern samples which average 0.6 extra mutations. The Bichon sample is dated at 13600 ybp and has 2 extra mutations (T7028C and 7521G).

U5b1a is also extremely rare with 4 modern samples from Poland, Russia, France and England, and one ancient sample from Loschbour, Luxembourg dated at about 8000 ybp. I'd guess that a pre-U5b1a branch point is more likely than U5b1h for this sample.

edit: the K3 samples is from Georgia, as is the other GenBank K3 sample, but it has 5 extra mutations and differs from the GenBank sample by 10 steps. I would have expected this sample to have fewer extra mutations given the age of over 13000 ybp. Perhaps all of the calls are not reliable? I discounted 4769A which was also found in the H13c sample and is probably a miscall.

Krefter
11-17-2015, 05:02 AM
I just noticed these ancient samples on Jean's ancient DNA page. Too bad they could not get better resolution for their mtDNA haplogroup results.

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [C130L] 6000 BC UK/V? –9052 HaeII , +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI, +4643 RsaI, 16298C, 16319A Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [C130R2a ] 6000 BC U-K +8249/ AvaII, –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16093C/t, 16223T/c, 16224T/c, 16293A/g, 16311C, 16319A/g, 16355T/c Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [ED140, Oo23, Pp240] 6000 BC U-K 3 samples +8249/ AvaII, –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI, +10394 DdeI, –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16093C/t, 16223T/c, 16224T/c, 16293A/g, 16311C, 16319A/g, 16355C/t Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [Nn200] 6000 BC W? +8249/ AvaII –9052 HaeII/ +12308 HinfI +10394 DdeI –9053 HhaI/ +4643 RsaI, 16016C, 16017C, 16223T, 16292T, 16311C, 16319A Pitulko 2015

Russia Zhokhov, New Siberian Islands [Nn220-1 and Nn220-2] 6000 BC U-K 2 samples –9052 HaeII +12308 HinfI +10394 DdeI –9053 HhaI +4643 RsaI, 16093C, 16224C, 16293G, 16311C, 16355T Pitulko 2015


http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

What? How was there K in NorthEastern tip of Siberia 8,000 years ago? LOL!!

J Man
11-17-2015, 10:24 AM
What? How was there K in NorthEastern tip of Siberia 8,000 years ago? LOL!!

I doubt that those ancient samples are K. They most likely are another form of U.

Megalophias
11-17-2015, 04:19 PM
What? How was there K in NorthEastern tip of Siberia 8,000 years ago? LOL!!
I think UK is just another way of saying all U, K being a subclade of U, to avoid ambiguity with U(xK).

Krefter
11-17-2015, 07:52 PM
I think UK is just another way of saying all U, K being a subclade of U, to avoid ambiguity with U(xK).

They had 16224 and 16311 the defining mutations of K.

J Man
11-24-2015, 08:01 PM
They had 16224 and 16311 the defining mutations of K.

K in Mesolithic Northeast Siberia? That seems pretty wild!

Kale
11-25-2015, 04:46 PM
Not sure I trust the Russian scientists on mtdna assignment. The last batch of ones from near the Karelia area were 100% H2a1 right?

J Man
11-25-2015, 05:31 PM
Not sure I trust the Russian scientists on mtdna assignment. The last batch of ones from near the Karelia area were 100% H2a1 right?

Which last batch was that? Mesolithic mtDNA results from Karelia so far have turned out to be a mix mainly of U types (U4 and U5) and C. There is only one H result from Mesolithic Karelia so far.

Krefter
11-25-2015, 07:05 PM
Which last batch was that? Mesolithic mtDNA results from Karelia so far have turned out to be a mix mainly of U types (U4 and U5) and C. There is only one H result from Mesolithic Karelia so far.

I think he's talking about the study that found R1a1/N1c Y DNA. They got very weird mtDNA results, all probably H.

parasar
11-25-2015, 11:17 PM
I think he's talking about the study that found R1a1/N1c Y DNA. They got very weird mtDNA results, all probably H.

Talking about ancient or modern dna? As I recall that study had both.

Kale
11-26-2015, 04:55 PM
Ancient...and yes, Krefter knows the one I'm referring to.

parasar
11-26-2015, 07:50 PM
True the ancient mtDNA was called H though the typing was limited.

Ancient:
Table 3. Results of genotyping of the material from archaeological sites of Upper Dvina region.
"The existence of mtDNA haplogroup H can be reliably traced in the forest zone of Eastern Europe —
in Upper Dvina region, basing on the materials of the site Serteya VIII (border of V-IV mill. BC), which testifies the appearance
of communities-bearers of this marker in post-glacial period. Modern data shows more diversity than the first definitions of paleomaterials. The existence of groups T1, K, W, J1b,
N1b can be traced, which could have appeared on this territory with bearers of Linear-band pottery culture traditions at the earliest or later, at the period which is to be determined."

And modern:
Table 1. Haplotypes mtDNA of autochthonous inhabitants of the Upper Dvina region.
"Probe assay basing on mtDNA markers (table 1) showed that the most part of the studied autochtonous inhabitants (55%) belongs to HV-subgroup (included H, H2, V, HV and HV0)."
https://www.academia.edu/9452168/Archaeology_of_lake_settlements_IV-II_mill._BC_Mazurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbuno va_E._ed

J Man
12-18-2015, 04:29 PM
They had 16224 and 16311 the defining mutations of K.

I have a hard time believing that those samples are actually K.

parasar
12-28-2015, 05:52 PM
K in Mesolithic Northeast Siberia? That seems pretty wild!

Yes, that's what the authors say.
"High Arctic that date to ~8000 years ago. The study of the isolated mtDNA allowed to identify the gender and the degree of kinship of the studied samples. Most of them belonged to haplogroup К. This group which had West-Eurasian roots preceded all modern ethnic groups in Arctic Siberia"
"(~8000 л. н.). Исследование выделенной мтДНК позволило установить пол и степень родства изученных образцов. В большинстве случаев они принадлежат к гаплогруппе К."
W, V, K
Рис. 3. Предварительная оценка положения палеоантропологических остатков
Жоховской стоянки в иерархии эволюционного дерева европейских гаплогрупп мтДНК
http://uralhist.uran.ru/en/pdf/UIV_2(47)_Pitulko_et_al.pdf

J Man
02-13-2016, 03:42 PM
Two more mtDNA haplogroup U individuals from a Mesolithic burial in Northeastern Germany. It looks like they are both U5b.

http://www.quartaer.eu/pdfs/2015/2015_06_terberger.pdf

http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2016/02/upright-for-all-eternity.html

GailT
02-14-2016, 05:45 AM
Two more mtDNA haplogroup U individuals from a Mesolithic burial in Northeastern Germany. It looks like they are both U5b.l[/URL]

The authors say U5b, but they only report two SNPs (A12308G and C16270T), so I would say U5, unless they have results for more than these two SNPs.

Gravetto-Danubian
02-14-2016, 08:02 AM
On the other thread, people were hypothesising where U5 arose within Europe.

Although expansions occured from the south after LGM, before the LGM appears to be a different story - it would appear that the Pleistocene hunters preferred the temperate European plains over the Mediterranean

Thus, U groups were probably dispersed from France to Siberia.

7757

From van Andel, Werninger et al.

J Man
02-14-2016, 02:26 PM
On the other thread, people were hypothesising where U5 arose within Europe.

Although expansions occured from the south after LGM, before the LGM appears to be a different story - it would appear that the Pleistocene hunters preferred the temperate European plains over the Mediterranean

Thus, U groups were probably dispersed from France to Siberia.

7757

From van Andel, Werninger et al.

That is why I think that it is quite likely that mtDNA haplogroup U5 originated somewhere in Central or Eastern Europe during pre-LGM times.

J Man
08-20-2016, 04:07 PM
I have a strong feeling that a lot of U5, U4 and possibly also some U2 are going to show up among these remains.

''TH4-11 Abstract 15
Mitochondrial DNA Analysis of Human Remains from Estonia –
Insights and Challenges
Here we reconstructed the complete mitochondrial DNA of 20 individuals from different archaeological sites of Estonia covering the timespan from the Late Mesolithic to the Late Neolithic. By determining the haplogroups of the individuals, we show that the typical European hunter-gatherer maternal lineages are represented exclusively in all individuals from all sites until the Middle Neolithic. From the Late Neolithic on we see the inclusion of haplogroups that are linked to the Neolithic farming cultures in Central and South Eastern Europe. The results indicate a late arrival of people genetically associated to other early European farmers in Estonia with the Corded Ware culture.''


Some U is very likely to show in this study as well.

''We present the results of ancient DNA analyses of 81 individuals from the territory of today’s Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia that span from the Mesolithic to Bronze Age. Through study of the uniparentally inherited mtDNA and Y-chromosome as well as positions across the entire genome that are informative about ancient ancestry we reveal the dynamics of prehistoric population continuity and change within this understudied region and how they are reflected in today’s Baltic populations.''


http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2016/08/eaa-2016-abstracts.html

http://eaavilnius2016.lt/abstract-book-2/

George Chandler
08-20-2016, 07:37 PM
It will be interesting to see the number of U5b's that do show up. The closest matches for my U5b1e turn up in that area.

George

J Man
08-21-2016, 03:19 AM
It will be interesting to see the number of U5b's that do show up. The closest matches for my U5b1e turn up in that area.

George

Some U5b's have already shown up from some Narva culture remains from Lithuania. The Narva culture also existed in Estonia.

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

Kale
08-21-2016, 05:22 AM
U5b is most likely...but that would be so boring. Let's see some R2 and derivatives.

George Chandler
08-21-2016, 04:30 PM
U5b is most likely...but that would be so boring. Let's see some R2 and derivatives.

Always frustrating when the more common results to that area show up and you aren't from that group.

Kale
08-21-2016, 06:31 PM
I've never been tested. I just want to see some surprises.