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Kulin
05-08-2021, 04:24 PM
My paternal grandfather carries the mtdna Z7 (along with 2 other relatives), which seems to be primarily concentrated in Tibetic-speaking populations (a Balti from Pakistan and the rest Tibetan-proper on Yfull: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/Z7/), apparently reaching a peak of 9% in Tibet. The TMRCA date is given as 1700 YBP, which is fairly recent (unless the date is being underestimated). Overall, the clade seems to be extremely rare in the 23andme database (1/140,000) and similarly uncommon in ethnic Bengalis. Having said that, it seems that a fairly significant amount of my relatives carry Tibetan or Northeast-Asian origin mtdna clades. As can be seen in my profile, my own mtdna is of Tibetan-origin (A11-a* (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/A11a/)) and is rare in Bangladesh (estimated as 0.1% I believe). Other observed Northeast Asian-origin mtdna clades among my (Bengali) 23andme relatives are D4e1a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D4e1a/), A-a1 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/A-a1), C4a3, G2a1d (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/G2a1d/) as well as other G2a1 clades, Dj4 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D4j/), C7a1a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/C7a1a/) as well as other C7a1 clades.

Given from archeology, it is known that Indo-Aryan speakers had come to settle the-then largely forested Bengal-region in the Iron age (likely absorbing Tibeto-Burman and Austro-Asiatic populations of the area), which makes it possible that the lineages are from that era. These haplogroups however are not so common in neighbouring Tibeto-Burman/Austro-asiatic populations either. The extremely Northeastern concentrations of these clades is the weird part to me. Also given the recent TMRCA date for my grandfather's mtdna and the connection between Bengal and Tibetan Buddhism (3 out of 4 major schools of Tibetan Buddhism have a Bengali spiritual lineage), it is also possible that a minority of these clades are fairly recent. Any information would be highly appreciated.

On another note, in terms of East Asian Y-dna lineages, ones seen among 23andme relatives of Bengali heritage are O-M7 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-M7/), O-F8, O-Z23667 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-Y9322/) and O-F1275 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-F1275/).

parasar
05-08-2021, 05:03 PM
"The Pashtun population is characterized by a high frequency of U2 (p<0.05) and R0 haplogroups and the exclusive presence of haplogroup Z7 (p<0.05)."
Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

Kulin
05-08-2021, 05:06 PM
"The Pashtun population is characterized by a high frequency of U2 (p<0.05) and R0 haplogroups and the exclusive presence of haplogroup Z7 (p<0.05)."
Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076748

That is very interesting. There are a wide-variety of East-Eurasian mtdna-lineages in Tajiks, but Pashtuns with Z7 are rather surprising. I am guessing it is from intermarriage with Tajiks, who themselves got it from a Turkic/Mongol or maybe Buddhist-era source.

Edit: Didn't read the exclusive part, that makes it very interesting. Some East Eurasian population may have been absorbed by Pashtuns in antiquity if that is the case.

Coldmountains
05-09-2021, 04:46 AM
That is very interesting. There are a wide-variety of East-Eurasian mtdna-lineages in Tajiks, but Pashtuns with Z7 are rather surprising. I am guessing it is from intermarriage with Tajiks, who themselves got it from a Turkic/Mongol or maybe Buddhist-era source.

Edit: Didn't read the exclusive part, that makes it very interesting. Some East Eurasian population may have been absorbed by Pashtuns in antiquity if that is the case.

The Pasthuns in this study are Ghilzai Pashtuns from Kunduz afaik and some of them show really much recent Uzbek/Tajik/Hazara admix. Some Kabuli Pashtuns and Central Pashtuns like from Logar and so also show it because they have this kind of recent admix too but Pashtuns from Kandhar, KPK Pashtuns and most tribal Ghilzai/Durrani much less (many even lack any East Asian/Turkic admix).

Kapisa
05-09-2021, 05:32 AM
My paternal grandfather carries the mtdna Z7 (along with 2 other relatives), which seems to be primarily concentrated in Tibetic-speaking populations (a Balti from Pakistan and the rest Tibetan-proper on Yfull: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/Z7/), apparently reaching a peak of 9% in Tibet. The TMRCA date is given as 1700 YBP, which is fairly recent (unless the date is being underestimated). Overall, the clade seems to be extremely rare in the 23andme database (1/140,000) and similarly uncommon in ethnic Bengalis. Having said that, it seems that a fairly significant amount of my relatives carry Tibetan or Northeast-Asian origin mtdna clades. As can be seen in my profile, my own mtdna is of Tibetan-origin (A11-a* (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/A11a/)) and is rare in Bangladesh (estimated as 0.1% I believe). Other observed Northeast Asian-origin mtdna clades among my (Bengali) 23andme relatives are D4e1a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D4e1a/), A-a1 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/A-a1), C4a3, G2a1d (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/G2a1d/) as well as other G2a1 clades, Dj4 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D4j/), C7a1a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/C7a1a/) as well as other C7a1 clades.

Given from archeology, it is known that Indo-Aryan speakers had come to settle the-then largely forested Bengal-region in the Iron age (likely absorbing Tibeto-Burman and Austro-Asiatic populations of the area), which makes it possible that the lineages are from that era. These haplogroups however are not so common in neighbouring Tibeto-Burman/Austro-asiatic populations either. The extremely Northeastern concentrations of these clades is the weird part to me. Also given the recent TMRCA date for my grandfather's mtdna and the connection between Bengal and Tibetan Buddhism (3 out of 4 major schools of Tibetan Buddhism have a Bengali spiritual lineage), it is also possible that a minority of these clades are fairly recent. Any information would be highly appreciated.

On another note, in terms of East Asian Y-dna lineages, ones seen among 23andme relatives of Bengali heritage are O-M7 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-M7/), O-F8, O-Z23667 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-Y9322/) and O-F1275 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-F1275/).

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Tibetian empire extend into Bengal, not sure how long that period was though.

Kulin
05-09-2021, 02:37 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Tibetian empire extend into Bengal, not sure how long that period was though.

Nope, that is a myth due to some map posted on the internet (see here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21255-Kashmiri-Results&p=690852&viewfull=1#post690852)).

The first foreign ruler to rule the region was Bakhtiyar Khalji on behalf of the Delhi sultans in the early 13th century. He actually invaded Tibet after conquering Bengal through the Assam-Yunnan route but was defeated.

Kapisa
05-09-2021, 07:46 PM
Nope, that is a myth due to some map posted on the internet (see here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21255-Kashmiri-Results&p=690852&viewfull=1#post690852)).

The first foreign ruler to rule the region was Bakhtiyar Khalji on behalf of the Delhi sultans in the early 13th century. He actually invaded Tibet after conquering Bengal through the Assam-Yunnan route but was defeated.

Thats the point, maps like these are usually inaccurate. That part of Tibetan empire extending into Central Asia is also not 100% accurate since there were powers in the region which checked their advance, Kashmir wasn't under their domain until much later.