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Principe
05-09-2021, 04:00 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

I will post the data again when I figure out how to properly import it



Haplogroup
# of individuals
Frequency


A
1
0.12%


E
173
20.23%


G
104
12.16%


I1
7
0.82%


I2
58
6.78%


J1
61
7.13%


J2
239
27.95%


L
10
1.17%


Q
12
1.40%


R1a
12
1.40%


R1b
144
16.84%


T
34
3.98%






Lineage rank
Macrogroup
# of individuals
Frequency
# of distinct branches


1
E1b-V13
73
8.54%
52


2
J2a-L70
50
5.85%
19


3
R1b-U152
49
5.73%
28


4
R1b-Z2103
45
5.26%
21


5
J2b-L283
43
5.03%
16


6
G2a-M406
33
3.86%
15


7
J2a-PF7412
28
3.27%
8


8
E1b-V22
23
2.69%
8


9
G2a-Z6553
23
2.69%
5


10
E1b-M84
21
2.46%
11


11
R1b-DF27
19
2.22%
13


12
E1b-M81
18
2.11%
17


13
J2a-Z8096
17
1.99%
8


14
J2a-PF5008
17
1.99%
8


15
J1-BY94
17
1.99%
4


16
J2a-M319
16
1.87%
6


17
I2a-P37
15
1.75%
8


18
T-P77
15
1.75%
5


19
E1b-V12
14
1.64%
6


20
I2a-Y5188
14
1.64%
1


21
T-CTS933
13
1.52%
8


22
R1b-U106
12
1.40%
8


23
J2a-SK1336
11
1.29%
6


24
I2a-L801
11
1.29%
2


25
J1-YSC76
10
1.17%
6


26
J2a-YP879
10
1.17%
4


27
G2a-U1
8
0.94%
8


28
G2a-CTS342
8
0.94%
6


29
J2a-Z7671
8
0.94%
5


30
E1b-L791
8
0.94%
4


31
I2a-P78
8
0.94%
4


32
Q-L245
8
0.94%
3


33
E1b-PF2025
8
0.94%
2


34
G2a-L497
7
0.82%
6


35
R1b-L21
7
0.82%
5


36
R1b-PF7562
7
0.82%
5


37
I1-M253
7
0.82%
4


38
J2a-Z6048
7
0.82%
3


39
G2a-BY28175
7
0.82%
2


40
J1-L829
7
0.82%
2


41
I2a-L38
6
0.70%
5


42
R1a-CTS1211
6
0.70%
4


43
G2b-M377
6
0.70%
2


44
G2a-L91
5
0.58%
4


45
J1-Y15152
5
0.58%
4


46
J2a-Y17949
5
0.58%
4


47
J1-FGC11
5
0.58%
3


48
J2a-L210
5
0.58%
3


49
J2b-M205
5
0.58%
3


50
T-Y4119
5
0.58%
3


51
J2a-Y6240
5
0.58%
1


52
J1-CTS1460
4
0.47%
3


53
J2a-F3133
4
0.47%
2


54
L1-M357
4
0.47%
2


55
J1-Z1842
4
0.47%
1


56
Q-M378
4
0.47%
1


57
J1-ZS4416
3
0.35%
3


58
G2a-F1193
3
0.35%
2


59
J2a-PF5197
3
0.35%
2


60
R1b-Z2118
3
0.35%
2


61
E1a-M44
3
0.35%
1


62
G2b-Y37100
3
0.35%
1


63
L1-M349
3
0.35%
1


64
R1a-Z93
3
0.35%
1


65
I2c-L596
2
0.23%
2


66
L1-SK1412
2
0.23%
2


67
E1b-Z841
2
0.23%
1


68
J1-Y29696
2
0.23%
1


69
J1-Y6304
2
0.23%
1


70
J1-Y3088
2
0.23%
1


71
I2a-L1229
2
0.23%
1


72
J2a-Z6271
2
0.23%
1


73
R1a-Z284
2
0.23%
1


74
A-M13
1
0.12%
1


75
E1b-V65
1
0.12%
1


76
E1b-V1039
1
0.12%
1


77
E1b-L618
1
0.12%
1


78
G2a-PF3177
1
0.12%
1


79
J2a-Z6057
1
0.12%
1


80
J2a-Y8344
1
0.12%
1


81
J2b-Z2453
1
0.12%
1


82
L2-L595
1
0.12%
1


83
R1a-Y17491
1
0.12%
1


84
R1b-M73
1
0.12%
1


85
R1b-DF99
1
0.12%
1


86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1

[tr]
86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1

SUPREEEEEME
05-09-2021, 04:07 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

Haplogroup # of individuals Frequency
A 1 0.12%
E 173 20.23%
G 104 12.16%
I1 7 0.82%
I2 58 6.78%
J1 61 7.13%
J2 239 27.95%
L 10 1.17%
Q 12 1.40%
R1a 12 1.40%
R1b 144 16.84%
T 34 3.98%


Lineage rank Macrogroup # of individuals Frequency # of distinct branches
1 E-V13 73 8.54% 52
2 J-L70 50 5.85% 19
3 R-U152 49 5.73% 28
4 R-Z2103 45 5.26% 21
5 J-L283 43 5.03% 16
6 G-M406 33 3.86% 15
7 J-PF7412 28 3.27% 8
8 E-V22 23 2.69% 8
9 G-Z6553 23 2.69% 5
10 E-M84 21 2.46% 11
11 R-DF27 19 2.22% 13
12 E-M81 18 2.11% 17
13 J-Z8096 17 1.99% 8
14 J-PF5008 17 1.99% 6
15 J-BY94 17 1.99% 4
16 J-M319 16 1.87% 6
17 I-P37 15 1.75% 8
18 T-P77 15 1.75% 5
19 E-V12 14 1.64% 6
20 I-Y5188 14 1.64% 1
21 T-CTS933 13 1.52% 8
22 R-U106 12 1.40% 8
23 J-SK1336 11 1.29% 6
24 I-L801 11 1.29% 2
25 J-YSC76 10 1.17% 6
26 J-YP879 10 1.17% 4
27 G-U1 8 0.94% 8
28 G-CTS342 8 0.94% 6
29 J-Z7671 8 0.94% 5
30 E-L791 8 0.94% 4
31 I-P78 8 0.94% 4
32 Q-L245 8 0.94% 3
33 E-PF2025 8 0.94% 2
34 G-L497 7 0.82% 6
35 R-L21 7 0.82% 5
36 R-PF7562 7 0.82% 5
37 I-M253 7 0.82% 4
38 J-Z6048 7 0.82% 3
39 G-BY28175 7 0.82% 2
40 J-L829 7 0.82% 2
41 I-L38 6 0.70% 5
42 R-CTS1211 6 0.70% 4
43 G-M377 6 0.70% 2
44 G-L91 5 0.58% 4
45 J-Y15152 5 0.58% 4
46 J-Y17949 5 0.58% 4
47 J-FGC11 5 0.58% 3
48 J-L210 5 0.58% 3
49 J-M205 5 0.58% 3
50 T-Y4119 5 0.58% 3
51 J-Y6240 5 0.58% 1
52 J-CTS1460 4 0.47% 3
53 J-F3133 4 0.47% 2
54 L-M357 4 0.47% 2
55 J-Z1842 4 0.47% 1
56 Q-M378 4 0.47% 1
57 J-ZS4416 3 0.35% 3
58 G-F1193 3 0.35% 2
59 J-PF5197 3 0.35% 2
60 R-Z2118 3 0.35% 2
61 E-M44 3 0.35% 1
62 G-Y37100 3 0.35% 1
63 L-M349 3 0.35% 1
64 R-Z93 3 0.35% 1
65 I-L596 2 0.23% 2
66 L-SK1412 2 0.23% 2
67 E-Z841 2 0.23% 1
68 J-Y29696 2 0.23% 1
69 J-Y6304 2 0.23% 1
70 J-Y3088 2 0.23% 1
71 I-L1229 2 0.23% 1
72 J-Z6271 2 0.23% 1
73 R-Z284 2 0.23% 1
74 A-M13 1 0.12% 1
75 E-V65 1 0.12% 1
76 E-V1039 1 0.12% 1
77 E-L618 1 0.12% 1
78 G-PF3177 1 0.12% 1
79 J-Z6057 1 0.12% 1
80 J-Y8344 1 0.12% 1
81 J-Z2453 1 0.12% 1
82 L-L595 1 0.12% 1
83 R-Y17491 1 0.12% 1
84 R-M73 1 0.12% 1
85 R-DF99 1 0.12% 1
86 T-Y37311 1 0.12% 1

Nicely done!

Principe
05-09-2021, 04:27 PM
Does somebody know how to import tables? That it doesn't look all squished in?

Figured it out ;)

vettor
05-09-2021, 04:46 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

I will post the data again when I figure out how to properly import it

Haplogroup # of individuals Frequency
A 1 0.12%
E 173 20.23%
G 104 12.16%
I1 7 0.82%
I2 58 6.78%
J1 61 7.13%
J2 239 27.95%
L 10 1.17%
Q 12 1.40%
R1a 12 1.40%
R1b 144 16.84%
T 34 3.98%

Lineage rank Macrogroup # of individuals Frequency # of distinct branches
1 E-V13 73 8.54% 52
2 J-L70 50 5.85% 19
3 R-U152 49 5.73% 28
4 R-Z2103 45 5.26% 21
5 J-L283 43 5.03% 16
6 G-M406 33 3.86% 15
7 J-PF7412 28 3.27% 8
8 E-V22 23 2.69% 8
9 G-Z6553 23 2.69% 5
10 E-M84 21 2.46% 11
11 R-DF27 19 2.22% 13
12 E-M81 18 2.11% 17
13 J-Z8096 17 1.99% 8
14 J-PF5008 17 1.99% 6
15 J-BY94 17 1.99% 4
16 J-M319 16 1.87% 6
17 I-P37 15 1.75% 8
18 T-P77 15 1.75% 5
19 E-V12 14 1.64% 6
20 I-Y5188 14 1.64% 1
21 T-CTS933 13 1.52% 8
22 R-U106 12 1.40% 8
23 J-SK1336 11 1.29% 6
24 I-L801 11 1.29% 2
25 J-YSC76 10 1.17% 6
26 J-YP879 10 1.17% 4
27 G-U1 8 0.94% 8
28 G-CTS342 8 0.94% 6
29 J-Z7671 8 0.94% 5
30 E-L791 8 0.94% 4
31 I-P78 8 0.94% 4
32 Q-L245 8 0.94% 3
33 E-PF2025 8 0.94% 2
34 G-L497 7 0.82% 6
35 R-L21 7 0.82% 5
36 R-PF7562 7 0.82% 5
37 I-M253 7 0.82% 4
38 J-Z6048 7 0.82% 3
39 G-BY28175 7 0.82% 2
40 J-L829 7 0.82% 2
41 I-L38 6 0.70% 5
42 R-CTS1211 6 0.70% 4
43 G-M377 6 0.70% 2
44 G-L91 5 0.58% 4
45 J-Y15152 5 0.58% 4
46 J-Y17949 5 0.58% 4
47 J-FGC11 5 0.58% 3
48 J-L210 5 0.58% 3
49 J-M205 5 0.58% 3
50 T-Y4119 5 0.58% 3
51 J-Y6240 5 0.58% 1
52 J-CTS1460 4 0.47% 3
53 J-F3133 4 0.47% 2
54 L-M357 4 0.47% 2
55 J-Z1842 4 0.47% 1
56 Q-M378 4 0.47% 1
57 J-ZS4416 3 0.35% 3
58 G-F1193 3 0.35% 2
59 J-PF5197 3 0.35% 2
60 R-Z2118 3 0.35% 2
61 E-M44 3 0.35% 1
62 G-Y37100 3 0.35% 1
63 L-M349 3 0.35% 1
64 R-Z93 3 0.35% 1
65 I-L596 2 0.23% 2
66 L-SK1412 2 0.23% 2
67 E-Z841 2 0.23% 1
68 J-Y29696 2 0.23% 1
69 J-Y6304 2 0.23% 1
70 J-Y3088 2 0.23% 1
71 I-L1229 2 0.23% 1
72 J-Z6271 2 0.23% 1
73 R-Z284 2 0.23% 1
74 A-M13 1 0.12% 1
75 E-V65 1 0.12% 1
76 E-V1039 1 0.12% 1
77 E-L618 1 0.12% 1
78 G-PF3177 1 0.12% 1
79 J-Z6057 1 0.12% 1
80 J-Y8344 1 0.12% 1
81 J-Z2453 1 0.12% 1
82 L-L595 1 0.12% 1
83 R-Y17491 1 0.12% 1
84 R-M73 1 0.12% 1
85 R-DF99 1 0.12% 1
86 T-Y37311 1 0.12% 1

Since you have split the R into r1a and r1b and also the J into J1 and J2 , you can split the T into

T1a1 x 26

T1a2 x 8


are all the G from G2 or are there some G1 ?

Principe
05-09-2021, 05:54 PM
Since you have split the R into r1a and r1b and also the J into J1 and J2 , you can split the T into

T1a1 x 26

T1a2 x 8


are all the G from G2 or are there some G1 ?

I can personally check for you, what would be T1a1 and T1a2?

Its all G2, I am sure there is a G1 that will be found eventually, I found 432 unique branches of a sample set of 855, also for some I couldn't confidently say which branch they belong too, I have a few G's that weren't included maybe there can be a G1 there. I plan to update this as I go

Principe
05-09-2021, 06:04 PM
Interesting that there is no R-M458(L1029) or I-Y3120 in Sicily. I guess the few Slavic mercenaries/settlements in Sicily were Z280 rich.

There are 4 I-CTS10228, one of the 4 used was Arbereshe. R-M458 like the response I gave to Vettor with G1 there are kits where determining the branch is difficult so they weren’t included, but I’m sure it will pop out eventually, it just will be a relatively rare branch.

J.delajara
05-09-2021, 06:16 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

I will post the data again when I figure out how to properly import it



Haplogroup
# of individuals
Frequency


A
1
0.12%


E
173
20.23%


G
104
12.16%


I1
7
0.82%


I2
58
6.78%


J1
61
7.13%


J2
239
27.95%


L
10
1.17%


Q
12
1.40%


R1a
12
1.40%


R1b
144
16.84%


T
34
3.98%






Lineage rank
Macrogroup
# of individuals
Frequency
# of distinct branches


1
E-V13
73
8.54%
52


2
J-L70
50
5.85%
19


3
R-U152
49
5.73%
28


4
R-Z2103
45
5.26%
21


5
J-L283
43
5.03%
16


6
G-M406
33
3.86%
15


7
J-PF7412
28
3.27%
8


8
E-V22
23
2.69%
8


9
G-Z6553
23
2.69%
5


10
E-M84
21
2.46%
11


11
R-DF27
19
2.22%
13


12
E-M81
18
2.11%
17


13
J-Z8096
17
1.99%
8


14
J-PF5008
17
1.99%
8


15
J-BY94
17
1.99%
4


16
J-M319
16
1.87%
6


17
I-P37
15
1.75%
8


18
T-P77
15
1.75%
5


19
E-V12
14
1.64%
6


20
I-Y5188
14
1.64%
1


21
T-CTS933
13
1.52%
8


22
R-U106
12
1.40%
8


23
J-SK1336
11
1.29%
6


24
I-L801
11
1.29%
2


25
J-YSC76
10
1.17%
6


26
J-YP879
10
1.17%
4


27
G-U1
8
0.94%
8


28
G-CTS342
8
0.94%
6


29
J-Z7671
8
0.94%
5


30
E-L791
8
0.94%
4


31
I-P78
8
0.94%
4


32
Q-L245
8
0.94%
3


33
E-PF2025
8
0.94%
2


34
G-L497
7
0.82%
6


35
R-L21
7
0.82%
5


36
R-PF7562
7
0.82%
5


37
I-M253
7
0.82%
4


38
J-Z6048
7
0.82%
3


39
G-BY28175
7
0.82%
2


40
J-L829
7
0.82%
2


41
I-L38
6
0.70%
5


42
R-CTS1211
6
0.70%
4


43
G-M377
6
0.70%
2


44
G-L91
5
0.58%
4


45
J-Y15152
5
0.58%
4


46
J-Y17949
5
0.58%
4


47
J-FGC11
5
0.58%
3


48
J-L210
5
0.58%
3


49
J-M205
5
0.58%
3


50
T-Y4119
5
0.58%
3


51
J-Y6240
5
0.58%
1


52
J-CTS1460
4
0.47%
3


53
J-F3133
4
0.47%
2


54
L-M357
4
0.47%
2


55
J-Z1842
4
0.47%
1


56
Q-M378
4
0.47%
1


57
J-ZS4416
3
0.35%
3


58
G-F1193
3
0.35%
2


59
J-PF5197
3
0.35%
2


60
R-Z2118
3
0.35%
2


61
E-M44
3
0.35%
1


62
G-Y37100
3
0.35%
1


63
L-M349
3
0.35%
1


64
R-Z93
3
0.35%
1


65
I-L596
2
0.23%
2


66
L-SK1412
2
0.23%
2


67
E-Z841
2
0.23%
1


68
J-Y29696
2
0.23%
1


69
J-Y6304
2
0.23%
1


70
J-Y3088
2
0.23%
1


71
I-L1229
2
0.23%
1


72
J-Z6271
2
0.23%
1


73
R-Z284
2
0.23%
1


74
A-M13
1
0.12%
1


75
E-V65
1
0.12%
1


76
E-V1039
1
0.12%
1


77
E-L618
1
0.12%
1


78
G-PF3177
1
0.12%
1


79
J-Z6057
1
0.12%
1


80
J-Y8344
1
0.12%
1


81
J-Z2453
1
0.12%
1


82
L-L595
1
0.12%
1


83
R-Y17491
1
0.12%
1


84
R-M73
1
0.12%
1


85
R-DF99
1
0.12%
1


86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1

[tr]
86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1


Great work as always Principe. Best Regards!!

Principe
05-09-2021, 06:33 PM
Interesting. Where is the possible M458 in Sicily from?

There is a Italian from Lombardy who is R-L1029* from Ftdna. Surname Serponte since 1600. So far there's 2 Albanian clusters in R-L1029. My own(R-Y133361), and R-FT205939. I imagine if any of these clusters traveled with Arberesh into Italy/Sicily these 2 may be present in the M458 portion of results.

Yeah I would agree with you, out of the 855 6 were Arbereshe in 5 branches. I’m sure if more test we’ll see your clade. I would assume most future when discovered branches of M458 would be related to the Balkan branches, Arbereshe would probably be the number 1 source.

capsian
05-09-2021, 06:56 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

I will post the data again when I figure out how to properly import it



Haplogroup
# of individuals
Frequency


A
1
0.12%


E
173
20.23%


G
104
12.16%


I1
7
0.82%


I2
58
6.78%


J1
61
7.13%


J2
239
27.95%


L
10
1.17%


Q
12
1.40%


R1a
12
1.40%


R1b
144
16.84%


T
34
3.98%






Lineage rank
Macrogroup
# of individuals
Frequency
# of distinct branches


1
E-V13
73
8.54%
52


2
J-L70
50
5.85%
19


3
R-U152
49
5.73%
28


4
R-Z2103
45
5.26%
21


5
J-L283
43
5.03%
16


6
G-M406
33
3.86%
15


7
J-PF7412
28
3.27%
8


8
E-V22
23
2.69%
8


9
G-Z6553
23
2.69%
5


10
E-M84
21
2.46%
11


11
R-DF27
19
2.22%
13


12
E-M81
18
2.11%
17


13
J-Z8096
17
1.99%
8


14
J-PF5008
17
1.99%
8


15
J-BY94
17
1.99%
4


16
J-M319
16
1.87%
6


17
I-P37
15
1.75%
8


18
T-P77
15
1.75%
5


19
E-V12
14
1.64%
6


20
I-Y5188
14
1.64%
1


21
T-CTS933
13
1.52%
8


22
R-U106
12
1.40%
8


23
J-SK1336
11
1.29%
6


24
I-L801
11
1.29%
2


25
J-YSC76
10
1.17%
6


26
J-YP879
10
1.17%
4


27
G-U1
8
0.94%
8


28
G-CTS342
8
0.94%
6


29
J-Z7671
8
0.94%
5


30
E-L791
8
0.94%
4


31
I-P78
8
0.94%
4


32
Q-L245
8
0.94%
3


33
E-PF2025
8
0.94%
2


34
G-L497
7
0.82%
6


35
R-L21
7
0.82%
5


36
R-PF7562
7
0.82%
5


37
I-M253
7
0.82%
4


38
J-Z6048
7
0.82%
3


39
G-BY28175
7
0.82%
2


40
J-L829
7
0.82%
2


41
I-L38
6
0.70%
5


42
R-CTS1211
6
0.70%
4


43
G-M377
6
0.70%
2


44
G-L91
5
0.58%
4


45
J-Y15152
5
0.58%
4


46
J-Y17949
5
0.58%
4


47
J-FGC11
5
0.58%
3


48
J-L210
5
0.58%
3


49
J-M205
5
0.58%
3


50
T-Y4119
5
0.58%
3


51
J-Y6240
5
0.58%
1


52
J-CTS1460
4
0.47%
3


53
J-F3133
4
0.47%
2


54
L-M357
4
0.47%
2


55
J-Z1842
4
0.47%
1


56
Q-M378
4
0.47%
1


57
J-ZS4416
3
0.35%
3


58
G-F1193
3
0.35%
2


59
J-PF5197
3
0.35%
2


60
R-Z2118
3
0.35%
2


61
E-M44
3
0.35%
1


62
G-Y37100
3
0.35%
1


63
L-M349
3
0.35%
1


64
R-Z93
3
0.35%
1


65
I-L596
2
0.23%
2


66
L-SK1412
2
0.23%
2


67
E-Z841
2
0.23%
1


68
J-Y29696
2
0.23%
1


69
J-Y6304
2
0.23%
1


70
J-Y3088
2
0.23%
1


71
I-L1229
2
0.23%
1


72
J-Z6271
2
0.23%
1


73
R-Z284
2
0.23%
1


74
A-M13
1
0.12%
1


75
E-V65
1
0.12%
1


76
E-V1039
1
0.12%
1


77
E-L618
1
0.12%
1


78
G-PF3177
1
0.12%
1


79
J-Z6057
1
0.12%
1


80
J-Y8344
1
0.12%
1


81
J-Z2453
1
0.12%
1


82
L-L595
1
0.12%
1


83
R-Y17491
1
0.12%
1


84
R-M73
1
0.12%
1


85
R-DF99
1
0.12%
1


86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1

[tr]
86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1


No found E-PF2431

Principe
05-09-2021, 06:58 PM
No found E-PF2431

Not yet, like I was telling Atticus there are some clades that just haven’t popped out yet, but there a few that the branch is not able to be determined.

capsian
05-09-2021, 06:59 PM
Ihave see in study 2013 in italy on sample from Sicly E-PF2431 and very likely Negative (-PF2440 and -Y10561)

capsian
05-09-2021, 07:00 PM
Not yet, like I was telling Atticus there are some clades that just haven’t popped out yet, but there a few that the branch is not able to be determined.

aha ok thanks you

Principe
05-09-2021, 07:00 PM
Ihave see in study 2013 in italy on sample from Sicly E-PF2431 and very likely Negative (-PF2440 and -Y10561)

I am basing what I have access too, Sicily has a fair share of North African haplogroups so we’ll see it eventually.

capsian
05-09-2021, 07:04 PM
I am basing what I have access too, Sicily has a fair share of North African haplogroups so we’ll see it eventually.

yes of couse thank you prince about this informatoin

Principe
05-09-2021, 07:09 PM
yes of couse thank you prince about this informatoin

My pleasure Capsian

digital_noise
05-09-2021, 07:16 PM
I’d be curious about what branches the E-V13 are. Despite my paternal roots being logistically close to Sicily but in Calabria, our E-V13 branch is more associated with Balkan migrations (I think, as this is till all up in the air)

Smellbert
05-09-2021, 07:28 PM
Abundant J1/J2 and E haplogroups in Sicily, just like their genetic kin the Ashkenazi Jews and island Greeks/southern mainland Greeks.
Albeit Ashkenazim suffered severe genetic drift, population bottlenecks and founder effects, and they have some Khazar paternal lines, plus Iranian and Slavic lines from the east, some central Euro lines, too. ;)

TuaMan
05-09-2021, 07:28 PM
I’d be curious about what branches the E-V13 are. Despite my paternal roots being logistically close to Sicily but in Calabria, our E-V13 branch is more associated with Balkan migrations (I think, as this is till all up in the air)

I'm curious about this as well - is most E-V13 in Sicily/Southern Italy related to ancient Greeks or something older?

Jatt1
05-09-2021, 07:39 PM
This thread is dedicated to the findings that I found through FTDNA by looking at match lists and through the Sicily project, in total I have 855 members who qualified for this list, I want to caution that not every kit was used, the ones where I could not predict the branch based on str's were excluded, and there is parity across all haplogroups so it checks out, also I included Maltese who matched the individual Sicilian branches as well as the Reggio Calabria province. The method was simple I looked for individual branches and saw who matched.

I would like to Thank @Leo Cooper for all the help he provided with the data sorting and graphs

I also take inspiration from other ethno geographic genetic projects such as Jewishdna.net, Albanian Bloodlines/Rrenjet, Poreklo, and the various projects at FTDNA that are well structured. I wanted to have an equivalent for Sicily.

I will post the data again when I figure out how to properly import it



Haplogroup
# of individuals
Frequency


A
1
0.12%


E
173
20.23%


G
104
12.16%


I1
7
0.82%


I2
58
6.78%


J1
61
7.13%


J2
239
27.95%


L
10
1.17%


Q
12
1.40%


R1a
12
1.40%


R1b
144
16.84%


T
34
3.98%






Lineage rank
Macrogroup
# of individuals
Frequency
# of distinct branches


1
E-V13
73
8.54%
52


2
J-L70
50
5.85%
19


3
R-U152
49
5.73%
28


4
R-Z2103
45
5.26%
21


5
J-L283
43
5.03%
16


6
G-M406
33
3.86%
15


7
J-PF7412
28
3.27%
8


8
E-V22
23
2.69%
8


9
G-Z6553
23
2.69%
5


10
E-M84
21
2.46%
11


11
R-DF27
19
2.22%
13


12
E-M81
18
2.11%
17


13
J-Z8096
17
1.99%
8


14
J-PF5008
17
1.99%
8


15
J-BY94
17
1.99%
4


16
J-M319
16
1.87%
6


17
I-P37
15
1.75%
8


18
T-P77
15
1.75%
5


19
E-V12
14
1.64%
6


20
I-Y5188
14
1.64%
1


21
T-CTS933
13
1.52%
8


22
R-U106
12
1.40%
8


23
J-SK1336
11
1.29%
6


24
I-L801
11
1.29%
2


25
J-YSC76
10
1.17%
6


26
J-YP879
10
1.17%
4


27
G-U1
8
0.94%
8


28
G-CTS342
8
0.94%
6


29
J-Z7671
8
0.94%
5


30
E-L791
8
0.94%
4


31
I-P78
8
0.94%
4


32
Q-L245
8
0.94%
3


33
E-PF2025
8
0.94%
2


34
G-L497
7
0.82%
6


35
R-L21
7
0.82%
5


36
R-PF7562
7
0.82%
5


37
I-M253
7
0.82%
4


38
J-Z6048
7
0.82%
3


39
G-BY28175
7
0.82%
2


40
J-L829
7
0.82%
2


41
I-L38
6
0.70%
5


42
R-CTS1211
6
0.70%
4


43
G-M377
6
0.70%
2


44
G-L91
5
0.58%
4


45
J-Y15152
5
0.58%
4


46
J-Y17949
5
0.58%
4


47
J-FGC11
5
0.58%
3


48
J-L210
5
0.58%
3


49
J-M205
5
0.58%
3


50
T-Y4119
5
0.58%
3


51
J-Y6240
5
0.58%
1


52
J-CTS1460
4
0.47%
3


53
J-F3133
4
0.47%
2


54
L-M357
4
0.47%
2


55
J-Z1842
4
0.47%
1


56
Q-M378
4
0.47%
1


57
J-ZS4416
3
0.35%
3


58
G-F1193
3
0.35%
2


59
J-PF5197
3
0.35%
2


60
R-Z2118
3
0.35%
2


61
E-M44
3
0.35%
1


62
G-Y37100
3
0.35%
1


63
L-M349
3
0.35%
1


64
R-Z93
3
0.35%
1


65
I-L596
2
0.23%
2


66
L-SK1412
2
0.23%
2


67
E-Z841
2
0.23%
1


68
J-Y29696
2
0.23%
1


69
J-Y6304
2
0.23%
1


70
J-Y3088
2
0.23%
1


71
I-L1229
2
0.23%
1


72
J-Z6271
2
0.23%
1


73
R-Z284
2
0.23%
1


74
A-M13
1
0.12%
1


75
E-V65
1
0.12%
1


76
E-V1039
1
0.12%
1


77
E-L618
1
0.12%
1


78
G-PF3177
1
0.12%
1


79
J-Z6057
1
0.12%
1


80
J-Y8344
1
0.12%
1


81
J-Z2453
1
0.12%
1


82
L-L595
1
0.12%
1


83
R-Y17491
1
0.12%
1


84
R-M73
1
0.12%
1


85
R-DF99
1
0.12%
1


86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1

[tr]
86
T-Y37311
1
0.12%
1


One thing I don't understand is why most people post J-Z1853 and J-M241, why they can't post them as J1-Z1853 and J2-M241? Why do you people expect everyone to know where every subclade belongs?

Principe
05-09-2021, 07:42 PM
I’d be curious about what branches the E-V13 are. Despite my paternal roots being logistically close to Sicily but in Calabria, our E-V13 branch is more associated with Balkan migrations (I think, as this is till all up in the air)

That’s the million dollar question, many of them aren’t snp tested I have about 13 who are BigY’ed/snp tested, and 39 other branches with nothing. I am hoping an E-V13 expert can help out, and from what I saw its a huge mix, there are 2 branches that are clearly Northern Italian who came to Sicily during Medieval period, some have broader connections with Greeks and other peoples from the Balkans, although vast majority seem to be singleton branches within E-V13 based on matching.

Principe
05-09-2021, 07:43 PM
I'm curious about this as well - is most E-V13 in Sicily/Southern Italy related to ancient Greeks or something older?

Honestly its a mix from what i’m seeing.

Principe
05-09-2021, 07:43 PM
One thing I don't understand is why most people post J-Z1853 and J-M241, why they can't post them as J1-Z1853 and J2-M241? Why do you people expect everyone to know every subclade where it belongs?

I’ll fix that now thanks for bringing it up!

I added the haplogroup to all of them

Howard23
05-10-2021, 09:50 AM
Abundant J1/J2 and E haplogroups in Sicily, just like their genetic kin the Ashkenazi Jews and island Greeks/southern mainland Greeks.
Albeit Ashkenazim suffered severe genetic drift, population bottlenecks and founder effects, and they have some Khazar paternal lines, plus Iranian and Slavic lines from the east, some central Euro lines, too. ;)

The Q_M378 and Q_L245 in Sicily support your idea.

According to Behar et al. 5% of Ashkenazi males belong to haplogroup Q. This has subsequently been found to be entirely Q-L275's Q-M378 subclade and may be further restricted to the Q-L245 branch.

Agamemnon
05-10-2021, 06:27 PM
Abundant J1/J2 and E haplogroups in Sicily, just like their genetic kin the Ashkenazi Jews and island Greeks/southern mainland Greeks.
Albeit Ashkenazim suffered severe genetic drift, population bottlenecks and founder effects, and they have some Khazar paternal lines, plus Iranian and Slavic lines from the east, some central Euro lines, too. ;)

You've aroused my curiosity. If you don't mind me asking, would you be so kind as to tell us which lineages you have in mind precisely?

Thanks in advance.

ChrisR
05-11-2021, 02:45 PM
I’ll fix that now thanks for bringing it up!
I added the haplogroup to all of them
Using J1, J2a and J2b is much more informative, as even I studying J2 a lot are often lost if J-Zxxxxx is in J1, J2a or J2b without looking it up.
With R and I Haplogroups for me this is also useful, for most other haplogroups including R1b-M269 the most informative substructure unfortunately is not present in the first 3 letters (Examples G2a, E1b, etc.). Using more IMHO becomes confusing, beside the standardisation/reference problems.

Principe
05-11-2021, 02:48 PM
Using J1, J2a and J2b is much more informative, as even I studying J2 a lot are often lost if J-Zxxxxx is in J1, J2a or J2b without looking it up.
With R and I Haplogroups for me this is also useful, for most other haplogroups including R1b-M269 the most informative substructure unfortunately is not present in the first 3 letters (Examples G2a, E1b, etc.). Using more IMHO becomes confusing, beside the standardisation/reference problems.

What are your opinions of the J2 structure in Sicily? I found 99 distinct branches in 20 macrogroups.

ChrisR
05-11-2021, 04:57 PM
What are your opinions of the J2 structure in Sicily? I found 99 distinct branches in 20 macrogroups.
I think the diversity both in clades and local presence age of Sicily might be higher then for example in Crete. Sicily like South Italy seems to have been a "relatively stable" place to settle for a long time as "barbaric incursions" etc. where less of a concern then to the North. Also with Greeks, Albanians etc. still surviving as community I see it as a "tolerant area" for foreign influence. That together with a very long history of coastal exchange throughout the Mediterranean seems to have given this area maybe even more J2 diversity then most of the Balkan (not sure about Greece since we have less comprehensive results).
Has someone looked more in detail to the I7796 Sicily-EBA 3781 ybp J-PF5160 results?

Principe
05-11-2021, 05:21 PM
I think the diversity both in clades and local presence age of Sicily might be higher then for example in Crete. Sicily like South Italy seems to have been a "relatively stable" place to settle for a long time as "barbaric incursions" etc. where less of a concern then to the North. Also with Greeks, Albanians etc. still surviving as community I see it as a "tolerant area" for foreign influence. That together with a very long history of coastal exchange throughout the Mediterranean seems to have given this area maybe even more J2 diversity then most of the Balkan (not sure about Greece since we have less comprehensive results).
Has someone looked more in detail to the I7796 Sicily-EBA 3781 ybp J-PF5160 results?

He was positive for J-PF5174, see post #132

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12858-The-History-of-J2/page14