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rainn
05-14-2021, 10:35 AM
Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?

dosas
05-14-2021, 10:49 AM
Which sample are you using as a point of reference?

Kanenas
05-14-2021, 11:11 AM
Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?

What you could quantify is proto-Semetic admixture, if you identify the homeland and have the relevant samples.

But pre-Turkic Anatolians would descend primarily from non-Semetic peoples and it would have beeen ridiculous to call them "genetically Semetic" whatever that means. Pre-Arabic "Semites" would have had non-Semetic admixture too.

And concerning Cypriots much of the Levantine admixture they have is likely pre-Semetic.

kingeo
05-14-2021, 12:09 PM
They were similar to either Greeks or Armenians depending on the region in Turkey.

Seabass
05-14-2021, 12:52 PM
Which sample are you using as a point of reference?

Think they mean TUR_Alalakh_MLBA? Those samples and those from SYR_Ebla_EMBA are quite similar to the Bronze Age samples from Lebanon.

dosas
05-14-2021, 02:57 PM
Think they mean TUR_Alalakh_MLBA? Those samples and those from SYR_Ebla_EMBA are quite similar to the Bronze Age samples from Lebanon.


That's hardly relevant for what we would call as post-Persian, post-Seleucid, post-Roman pre-Manzikert Anatolia, though, I believe.

vasil
05-14-2021, 03:22 PM
Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?

Depends on what you mean by Pre-Turkic Anatolians if by that you mean what is today Southeastern Turkey than yeah they would obviously have Levantine conections to a varying degree but if we are talking about everywhere else than the is answer is NO.

Leper
05-14-2021, 07:00 PM
Define "genetically Semitic."

I would say no. They descended mostly from Bronze Age Anatolians (Kaman/Ovaoren/Isparta-like populations), who in turn descended almost fully from Chalcolithic Anatolians, who in turn were a mixture of Anatolia_N and CHG+Iran_N. Pre-IE Anatolian languages (such as Hattic) are thought to be either isolate languages or Caucasus-related languages (introduced by a CHG-rich people from the east if true).


Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/AnatolieLimits.jpg).


Caucasus_BA: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya + Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
Anatolia_BA: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + TUR_Ovaoren_BA
https://abload.de/img/adsz3pk6g.png

drobbah
05-14-2021, 07:23 PM
No such thing of a genetic grouping called Semitic....it's a langauge group spoken by a diverse group of people.Semitic speaking Assyrians cluster with IE speaking Armenians and Semitic speaking Amhara cluster with the Cushitic Agaw.

bovefex
05-14-2021, 08:38 PM
Define "genetically Semitic."

I would say no. They descended mostly from Bronze Age Anatolians (Kaman/Ovaoren/Isparta-like populations), who in turn descended almost fully from Chalcolithic Anatolians, who in turn were a mixture of Anatolia_N and CHG+Iran_N. Pre-IE Anatolian languages (such as Hattic) are thought to be either isolate languages or Caucasus-related languages (introduced by a CHG-rich people from the east if true).


Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/AnatolieLimits.jpg).


Caucasus_BA: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya + Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
Anatolia_BA: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + TUR_Ovaoren_BA
https://abload.de/img/adsz3pk6g.png

A question: why Catacomb, and not something like Yamnaya_BGR? There is no way that pure Steppe reached Anatolia, right?

Cynic
05-15-2021, 07:40 AM
Genetically semitic doesn't make much sense just like genetically "Indo-European" doesnt make sense either. These are linguistic categories. But I'm assuming you're asking if they fit into the Levantine cluster and the answer is yes for Alalalakh(no surprise there) and no for the others which seem to be more Armenian or Greek shifted.

Distance to: TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
0.01963226 Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.02049119 Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.02355437 Lebanese_Christian
0.02927717 Druze
0.03125921 Lebanese_Druze
0.03253587 Samaritan
0.03268588 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.03269209 Iraqi_Jew
0.03648607 Cypriot
0.03912527 Karaite_Egypt
0.04180852 Lebanese_Muslim
0.04255710 Cypriot_B
0.04523220 Syrian_Jew
0.04534223 Armenian_B
0.04679088 Iranian_Jew
0.04737490 Lebanese_Muslim_Shia
0.04832971 Greek_Cappadocia
0.05006025 Assyrian
0.05043882 Iraqi_B
0.05055283 Georgian_Jew
0.05166141 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.05346867 Armenian
0.05481970 Romaniote_Jew
0.05506186 Mountain_Jew
0.05507430 Jordanian_B

Distance to: TUR_Isparta_EBA
0.03856446 Cypriot_B
0.04318825 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04470607 Cypriot
0.04566926 Greek_Kos
0.04584918 Greek_Dodecanese
0.05014230 Greek_Cappadocia
0.05478131 Romaniote_Jew
0.05585741 Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.05631840 Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.05751645 Lebanese_Christian
0.05763908 Druze
0.05944155 Greek_Crete
0.06068180 Armenian_B
0.06094956 Italian_Calabria
0.06095001 Syrian_Jew
0.06154781 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.06157186 Lebanese_Druze
0.06172304 Italian_Jew
0.06259361 Turkish_Trabzon
0.06272068 Sephardic_Jew
0.06379247 Italian_Campania
0.06426588 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06706161 Italian_Basilicata
0.06723592 Greek_Trabzon
0.06855966 Karaite_Egypt

Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
0.03581211 Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.03662687 Armenian_B
0.03691122 Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.04114281 Druze
0.04131106 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04171803 Cypriot
0.04183357 Lebanese_Christian
0.04265655 Iraqi_Jew
0.04283248 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04312949 Lebanese_Druze
0.04378153 Cypriot_B
0.04442962 Armenian
0.04473532 Turkish_Trabzon
0.04742034 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.04763612 Greek_Trabzon
0.04850542 Assyrian
0.05043222 Georgian_Jew
0.05101287 Karaite_Egypt
0.05279860 Syrian_Jew
0.05364272 Iranian_Jew
0.05393421 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05461077 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05529743 Samaritan
0.05715161 Mountain_Jew
0.05850294 Greek_Dodecanese

Distance to: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.03068484 Cypriot_B
0.03523072 Cypriot
0.03761638 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04051698 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04195622 Greek_Dodecanese
0.04380109 Greek_Kos
0.04454516 Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.04534368 Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.04598756 Romaniote_Jew
0.04664703 Druze
0.04782494 Lebanese_Christian
0.04987324 Lebanese_Druze
0.05012130 Syrian_Jew
0.05236175 Armenian_B
0.05467909 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.05468214 Sephardic_Jew
0.05540936 Italian_Jew
0.05590048 Karaite_Egypt
0.05659734 Greek_Crete
0.05694577 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05853727 Italian_Calabria
0.05933382 Lebanese_Muslim
0.06010914 Greek_Trabzon
0.06063381 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06076711 Armenian

Distance to: TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA
0.05195755 Armenian_B
0.05475835 Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.05485080 Iraqi_Jew
0.05492402 Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.05693931 Greek_Cappadocia
0.05704011 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05749621 Lebanese_Christian
0.05792011 Armenian
0.05797506 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.05869989 Druze
0.05907707 Greek_Trabzon
0.05929160 Lebanese_Druze
0.06019916 Cypriot
0.06106919 Cypriot_B
0.06143378 Assyrian
0.06306567 Georgian_Jew
0.06340608 Iranian_Jew
0.06512305 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.06566499 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.06760066 Karaite_Egypt
0.06863520 Lebanese_Muslim
0.07013489 Samaritan
0.07057729 Mountain_Jew
0.07104066 Iraqi_B
0.07116625 Syrian_Jew

MLSK
06-08-2021, 05:05 PM
Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/AnatolieLimits.jpg).


You don't happen to have GEDmatch kits for the Alalakh or Titris samples?

davit
06-08-2021, 08:28 PM
Define "genetically Semitic."

I would say no. They descended mostly from Bronze Age Anatolians (Kaman/Ovaoren/Isparta-like populations), who in turn descended almost fully from Chalcolithic Anatolians, who in turn were a mixture of Anatolia_N and CHG+Iran_N. Pre-IE Anatolian languages (such as Hattic) are thought to be either isolate languages or Caucasus-related languages (introduced by a CHG-rich people from the east if true).


Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/AnatolieLimits.jpg).


Caucasus_BA: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya + Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
Anatolia_BA: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + TUR_Ovaoren_BA
https://abload.de/img/adsz3pk6g.png


People forget Anatolia isn't all of Turkey.

Liquid
06-29-2021, 10:51 AM
Depends on what you mean by Pre-Turkic Anatolians if by that you mean what is today Southeastern Turkey than yeah they would obviously have Levantine conections to a varying degree but if we are talking about everywhere else than the is answer is NO.

Kurds appear to be less Levantine than the Armenians they replaced after the events of 1915; Central Anatolian and 'Pontic' Greeks also appear more Levantine.


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.5329% / 0.01532889 | R6P
23.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
22.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.4 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
9.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Armenian
Distance: 3.2414% / 0.03241448 | R6P
30.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
21.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
19.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
Distance: 2.5332% / 0.02533173 | R6P
44.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
14.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Greek_Trabzon
Distance: 2.9962% / 0.02996159 | R6P
36.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
36.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
14.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Liquid
06-29-2021, 10:52 AM
People forget Anatolia isn't all of Turkey.

Can you explain?

Johnny ola
06-29-2021, 10:59 AM
Arslantepe is also somewhat Levantine admixed.But not sure if the area can be categorized as Anatolian/Eastern Anatolia or Northern/Northeastern Mesopotamia.

bovefex
06-29-2021, 11:40 AM
Kurds appear to be less Levantine than the Armenians they replaced after the events of 1915; Central Anatolian and 'Pontic' Greeks also appear more Levantine.


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.5329% / 0.01532889 | R6P
23.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
22.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.4 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
9.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian



This is literally the first time I'm seeing Kurdish results with that much Yamnaya, absolutely zero CHG and so much West African. I assume you are using Onur's calculator, mind sharing the coordinates of the pops you used, especially the Kurdish one?


Can you explain?

If you look 'Anatolia' up on Wikipedia, you will see that in the strictest sense, Anatolia only covers parts of Turkey.

Mrtni
06-29-2021, 11:58 AM
I share your point with the Armenians but not with the Greeks. Cappadocian and Pontian Greeks are also hellenized Anatolians and do not cluster with Mainland Greeks.

Anatolians were definitely not mainly Semitic. It could be possible that there was a small influence in South Turkey (Alalakh) but it was mostly dominated by Indo-European and Turkic languages for the most time.

Onur Dincer
06-29-2021, 12:46 PM
Kurds appear to be less Levantine than the Armenians they replaced after the events of 1915; Central Anatolian and 'Pontic' Greeks also appear more Levantine.


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.5329% / 0.01532889 | R6P
23.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
22.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.4 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
9.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Armenian
Distance: 3.2414% / 0.03241448 | R6P
30.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
21.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
19.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Greek_Central_Anatolia
Distance: 2.5332% / 0.02533173 | R6P
44.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
14.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Greek_Trabzon
Distance: 2.9962% / 0.02996159 | R6P
36.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
36.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
14.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Levant PPNB is about half Levant Natufian and half Anatolia HG/NF in ancestry. So Kurds do not have much lower Levantine genetic input than Armenians and Anatolian Greeks, in fact they have more Levantine genetic input than Anatolian Greeks. Here is my calculator in the standard mode:

45375

Onur Dincer
06-29-2021, 12:53 PM
This is literally the first time I'm seeing Kurdish results with that much Yamnaya, absolutely zero CHG and so much West African. I assume you are using Onur's calculator, mind sharing the coordinates of the pops you used, especially the Kurdish one?


As you see on my above post, in the standard mode Kurds show nothing African and practically no East Eurasian and nowhere so high steppe in my calculator. He probably messed up the Kurdish samples.

Liquid
06-30-2021, 01:27 PM
This is literally the first time I'm seeing Kurdish results with that much Yamnaya, absolutely zero CHG and so much West African. I assume you are using Onur's calculator, mind sharing the coordinates of the pops you used, especially the Kurdish one?



If you look 'Anatolia' up on Wikipedia, you will see that in the strictest sense, Anatolia only covers parts of Turkey.

Yes, I messed up the Kurdish coordinates as Onur has observed. I used the unscaled by accident, the first one is unscaled and the second one is scaled.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 2.0997% / 0.02099708 | R5P
29.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
22.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
20.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.8 North_China_Neolithic_Farmer_CHN_Boshan_N
10.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 2.4465% / 0.02446518 | R5P
32.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
22.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
19.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
14.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
12.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG

Liquid
06-30-2021, 01:36 PM
If you look 'Anatolia' up on Wikipedia, you will see that in the strictest sense, Anatolia only covers parts of Turkey.

Oh I see, well we consider all of Turkey to be Anatolia, Western Anatolia and Eastern Anatolia etc.

zafomafo
06-30-2021, 08:16 PM
This is literally the first time I'm seeing Kurdish results with that much Yamnaya, absolutely zero CHG and so much West African. I assume you are using Onur's calculator, mind sharing the coordinates of the pops you used, especially the Kurdish one?

but it could be that much Yamnaya here is mine:
Target: ZG_scaled
Distance: 3.2816% / 0.03281626
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
21.4 TUR_Barcin_N
21.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
19.6 Levant_PPNB
8.2 GEO_CHG
Coordinates: ZG_scaled,0.097888,0.109677,-0.049026,-0.031654,-0.036007,-0.006136,0.003525,-0.002769,-0.026793,-0.016583,-0.005521,0.001948,0.003717,-0.000138,0.007465,0.009016,-0.005346,0.006968,0.008799,-0.008629,-0.000374,0.001237,0.000493,0.003012,0.003952
ZG,0.0086,0.0108,-0.013,-0.0098,-0.0117,-0.0022,0.0015,-0.0012,-0.0131,-0.0091,-0.0034,0.0013,0.0025,-0.0001,0.0055,0.0068,-0.0041,0.0055,0.007,-0.0069,-0.0003,0.001,0.0004,0.0025,0.0033

Andre
06-30-2021, 08:41 PM
but it could be that much Yamnaya here is mine:
Target: ZG_scaled
Distance: 3.2816% / 0.03281626
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
21.4 TUR_Barcin_N
21.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
19.6 Levant_PPNB
8.2 GEO_CHG
Coordinates: ZG_scaled,0.097888,0.109677,-0.049026,-0.031654,-0.036007,-0.006136,0.003525,-0.002769,-0.026793,-0.016583,-0.005521,0.001948,0.003717,-0.000138,0.007465,0.009016,-0.005346,0.006968,0.008799,-0.008629,-0.000374,0.001237,0.000493,0.003012,0.003952
ZG,0.0086,0.0108,-0.013,-0.0098,-0.0117,-0.0022,0.0015,-0.0012,-0.0131,-0.0091,-0.0034,0.0013,0.0025,-0.0001,0.0055,0.0068,-0.0041,0.0055,0.007,-0.0069,-0.0003,0.001,0.0004,0.0025,0.0033

Hi, are you kurd from Turkey?

zafomafo
06-30-2021, 10:03 PM
Yes. Central Anatolia region.

hartaisarlag
06-30-2021, 11:15 PM
Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?

About a decade ago it was in vogue to speculate that Cypriots were a good proxy for Levantines pre-Arabization. This idea has been roundly debunked.

Dwāz
07-10-2021, 09:55 AM
but it could be that much Yamnaya here is mine:
Target: ZG_scaled
Distance: 3.2816% / 0.03281626
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
21.4 TUR_Barcin_N
21.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
19.6 Levant_PPNB
8.2 GEO_CHG
Coordinates: ZG_scaled,0.097888,0.109677,-0.049026,-0.031654,-0.036007,-0.006136,0.003525,-0.002769,-0.026793,-0.016583,-0.005521,0.001948,0.003717,-0.000138,0.007465,0.009016,-0.005346,0.006968,0.008799,-0.008629,-0.000374,0.001237,0.000493,0.003012,0.003952
ZG,0.0086,0.0108,-0.013,-0.0098,-0.0117,-0.0022,0.0015,-0.0012,-0.0131,-0.0091,-0.0034,0.0013,0.0025,-0.0001,0.0055,0.0068,-0.0041,0.0055,0.007,-0.0069,-0.0003,0.001,0.0004,0.0025,0.0033

That's very interesting, may I know your tribe if that's alright?

J Man
07-11-2021, 04:58 PM
Yes. Central Anatolia region.

Which Y-DNA haplogroup do you belong to?

Kulin
07-11-2021, 05:09 PM
That's very interesting, may I know your tribe if that's alright?

He mentions his tribe in this post. (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21357-Iranian-G25&p=769328&viewfull=1#post769328)

Dwāz
07-11-2021, 05:24 PM
He mentions his tribe in this post. (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21357-Iranian-G25&p=769328&viewfull=1#post769328)

Ah great, thanks!

J Man
07-11-2021, 05:42 PM
Ah great, thanks!

Is your paternal line Kurdish as well?

Dwāz
07-11-2021, 05:55 PM
Is your paternal line Kurdish as well?



Yessir

KLMDG
07-12-2021, 03:12 PM
Alalakh was the only Semite land and it's not part of Anatolia geographically

zafomafo
07-12-2021, 11:50 PM
That's very interesting, may I know your tribe if that's alright?

Reşwan tribe Sfkan branch.

zafomafo
07-12-2021, 11:54 PM
Which Y-DNA haplogroup do you belong to?

E-M84 i guess local ME haplo

J Man
07-13-2021, 12:10 AM
Yessir

Which tribe and haplogroup do you belong to?

Glaucus
07-13-2021, 01:39 AM
I checked out a Neolithic Anatolian kit at GedMatch
I checked the admixture.
I also checked the oracle which I find a lot more important because it shows what populations a particular genome is close to.
Neolithic Anatolians are closest to modern Southern Europeans, European Jews, and North African Jews.
No modern Middle Eastern nor Caucasian populations show up.
All of them are over 10 distance and even over 20 distance, and so they're not genetically close to Neolithic Anatolians.
If you look at all these populations in relation to each other, they seem genetically close to each other. Southern Europeans, European Jews, and North African Jews are genetically close to each other.

Modern Turkey isn't the ancestral homeland of the Turks. Turkic people didn't enter Anatolia until the Middle Ages. People have been living in Anatolia for over 15,000 years. Recent linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest Turkic peoples descended from communities in Northeast China who moved into Mongolia in the late 3rd millennium BC.


Neolithic Anatolian
Kit F999863

Dodecad K12b

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 52.14
2 Caucasus 32.5
3 Southwest_Asian 14.11
4 Northwest_African 1.13
5 East_African 0.07
6 Southeast_Asian 0.06


# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian (HGDP) 21.55
2 Tuscan (HGDP) 23.19
3 TSI30 (Metspalu) 23.32
4 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.53
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 24.23
6 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 24.29
7 North_Italian (HGDP) 24.81
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 25.45
9 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 26.12
10 Andalucia (1000Genomes) 27.21
11 N_Italian (Dodecad) 27.25
12 O_Italian (Dodecad) 27.98
13 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 27.99
14 Murcia (1000Genomes) 28.06
15 Baleares (1000Genomes) 28.46
16 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 28.88
17 Canarias (1000Genomes) 29.43
18 Greek (Dodecad) 29.88
19 Galicia (1000Genomes) 30.59
20 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 30.73

Mrtni
07-13-2021, 02:23 AM
I checked out a Neolithic Anatolian kit at GedMatch
I checked the admixture.
I also checked the oracle which I find a lot more important because it shows what populations a particular genome is close to.
Neolithic Anatolians are closest to modern Southern Europeans, European Jews, and North African Jews.
No modern Middle Eastern nor Caucasian populations show up.
All of them are over 10 distance and even over 20 distance, and so they're not genetically close to Neolithic Anatolians.
If you look at all these populations in relation to each other, they seem genetically close to each other. Southern Europeans, European Jews, and North African Jews are genetically close to each other.

Modern Turkey isn't the ancestral homeland of the Turks. Turkic people didn't enter Anatolia until the Middle Ages. People have been living in Anatolia for over 15,000 years. Recent linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest Turkic peoples descended from communities in Northeast China who moved into Mongolia in the late 3rd millennium BC.


Neolithic Anatolian
Kit F999863

Dodecad K12b

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 52.14
2 Caucasus 32.5
3 Southwest_Asian 14.11
4 Northwest_African 1.13
5 East_African 0.07
6 Southeast_Asian 0.06


# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian (HGDP) 21.55
2 Tuscan (HGDP) 23.19
3 TSI30 (Metspalu) 23.32
4 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.53
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 24.23
6 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 24.29
7 North_Italian (HGDP) 24.81
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 25.45
9 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 26.12
10 Andalucia (1000Genomes) 27.21
11 N_Italian (Dodecad) 27.25
12 O_Italian (Dodecad) 27.98
13 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 27.99
14 Murcia (1000Genomes) 28.06
15 Baleares (1000Genomes) 28.46
16 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 28.88
17 Canarias (1000Genomes) 29.43
18 Greek (Dodecad) 29.88
19 Galicia (1000Genomes) 30.59
20 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 30.73

It is well known that modern day Turkey isn‘t the ancestral homeland of Anatolian Turks. It is also known that the Neolithic component has its highest peak in Sardinia. They are genetic outliers in Europe because of their historical Isolation. Anatolia was always a melting pot of different cultures, civilization and nationalities.

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit M897077

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 48.34
2 East_Med 40.08
3 North_Atlantic 7.72
4 Red_Sea 3.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 20.71
2 Algerian_Jewish 25.83
3 Italian_Jewish 27.53
4 South_Italian 29.01
5 Sephardic_Jewish 29.53
6 Libyan_Jewish 29.87
7 Tunisian_Jewish 29.97
8 West_Sicilian 30.07
9 East_Sicilian 30.74
10 Ashkenazi 31.03
11 Tunisian 31.43
12 Cyprian 31.55
13 Central_Greek 31.63
14 Moroccan 32.06
15 Algerian 32.5
16 Mozabite_Berber 32.55
17 Tuscan 32.99
18 Italian_Abruzzo 33.8
19 Greek_Thessaly 34.6
20 Samaritan 34.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.7% Sardinian + 30.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 14.68
2 68.5% Sardinian + 31.5% Samaritan @ 14.7
3 76% Sardinian + 24% Yemenite_Jewish @ 15.06
4 72.8% Sardinian + 27.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 15.53
5 67% Sardinian + 33% Cyprian @ 15.73
6 73.2% Sardinian + 26.8% Palestinian @ 15.99
7 74.1% Sardinian + 25.9% Jordanian @ 16.38
8 61.3% Sardinian + 38.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 16.46
9 66.7% Sardinian + 33.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 16.5
10 66.6% Sardinian + 33.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 16.5
11 74.3% Sardinian + 25.7% Egyptian @ 16.56
12 79% Sardinian + 21% Saudi @ 16.66
13 75.1% Sardinian + 24.9% Bedouin @ 16.67
14 73.4% Sardinian + 26.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 16.69
15 77% Sardinian + 23% Kurdish_Jewish @ 16.73
16 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 16.85
17 74.1% Sardinian + 25.9% Syrian @ 16.85
18 64.6% Sardinian + 35.4% Italian_Jewish @ 16.95
19 78% Sardinian + 22% Assyrian @ 17.21
20 68.2% Sardinian + 31.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 17.49

This post was stolen from Piquerobi who posted some Neolithic results on another thread. The distances are still too far away from modern populations, which is quite normal.

West Anatolia was also a melting pot of different empires and tribes. Unfortunately I can‘t say too much about the history. But I doubt any huge Semitic influence in that region. Maybe there were some seafarers who left a genetic impact. My assumption is that they were close to Minoans.

I only found 3 Minoan results on TA (unfortunately) but I'll only post one of it. I Hope it's okay to share it.

1 West_Med 40.08
2 East_Med 37.68
3 Atlantic 12.12
4 West_Asian 8.57
5 Red_Sea 1.56

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Algerian_Jewish 21.4
2 Sardinian 21.83
3 Italian_Jewish 22.85
4 South_Italian 23.52
5 Sephardic_Jewish 24.18
6 Tunisian_Jewish 25.07
7 West_Sicilian 25.16
8 Cyprian 25.3
9 Libyan_Jewish 25.46
10 East_Sicilian 25.71
11 Central_Greek 26.04
12 Italian_Abruzzo 27.8
13 Tuscan 27.95
14 Greek 28.11
15 Ashkenazi 28.15
16 Greek_Thessaly 29.42
17 Samaritan 29.58
18 Tunisian 29.84
19 Algerian 30.74
20 Mozabite_Berber 31.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61% Sardinian + 39% Lebanese_Christian @ 11.02
2 63.1% Sardinian + 36.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 11.12
3 59.5% Sardinian + 40.5% Samaritan @ 11.47
4 54.9% Sardinian + 45.1% Cyprian @ 11.9
5 65.6% Sardinian + 34.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 12.27
6 66.5% Sardinian + 33.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 12.76
7 64.3% Sardinian + 35.7% Palestinian @ 13.15
8 62.6% Sardinian + 37.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 13.26
9 66.5% Sardinian + 33.5% Assyrian @ 13.34
10 64.9% Sardinian + 35.1% Jordanian @ 13.77
11 55.3% Sardinian + 44.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 13.87
12 63.7% Sardinian + 36.3% Syrian @ 13.88
13 55.9% Sardinian + 44.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 13.9
14 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Sardinian @ 14.02
15 71.6% Sardinian + 28.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 14.1
16 68.9% Sardinian + 31.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 14.32
17 68.9% Sardinian + 31.1% Armenian @ 14.59
18 52% Sardinian + 48% Italian_Jewish @ 14.74
19 54.4% Sardinian + 45.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 14.86
20 68.2% Sardinian + 31.8% Bedouin @ 15.34

Dwāz
07-15-2021, 11:09 AM
Which tribe and haplogroup do you belong to?

I belong to the Herk tribe, I haven't taken a test and I nowhere found anyone who did so for the time being I do not know my haplogroup. What about you?