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View Full Version : Do Levantine Muslims have Egyptian ancestry?



Cynic
05-17-2021, 01:39 AM
Target: Palestinian
Distance: 0.6074% / 0.00607406
29.6 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
25.4 Egyptian
24.6 Turkish_Adana
18.4 BedouinB
2.0 Somali


I keep seeing them score Egyptian in calculators

MLSK
06-10-2021, 08:50 PM
It would be incredible if Palestinians didn't have significant Egyptian ancestry, considering the geography and how tied Gaza/Philistia is and always was to Egypt.
Even the freaking PLO leader Yassir Arafat had strong ties to Egypt, as a Cairo-born person with an Egyptian paternal grandmother.

drobbah
06-10-2021, 09:24 PM
There are some Levantine samples on G25 that are heavily Egyptian.I remember there was this one Jordanian sample that was like 90% Egyptian but it could just be a regular Levantine with recent Sahelian/West African ancestry that makes it look they have Egyptian ancestry.There are still minor African descendants in Palestine/Jordan many of whom claim their origins in Sudan & Chad.

The result you posted is just terrible as Somali is just hiding the excess Dinka/Sahelian ancestry missing from the Egyptian average while BedouinB contains Yoruba admixture as well.The only Arabs that have actual Horner ancestry especially Somali ancestry are some Yemenis.

Cynic
06-12-2021, 05:24 AM
There are some Levantine samples on G25 that are heavily Egyptian.I remember there was this one Jordanian sample that was like 90% Egyptian but it could just be a regular Levantine with recent Sahelian/West African ancestry that makes it look they have Egyptian ancestry.There are still minor African descendants in Palestine/Jordan many of whom claim their origins in Sudan & Chad.

The result you posted is just terrible as Somali is just hiding the excess Dinka/Sahelian ancestry missing from the Egyptian average while BedouinB contains Yoruba admixture as well.The only Arabs that have actual Horner ancestry especially Somali ancestry are some Yemenis.

Elaborate on this. Where does the African ancestry in Levantine Muslims come from then? Exclusively from mixing with Egyptians? I find that quite unlikely.

drobbah
06-12-2021, 05:47 AM
Elaborate on this. Where does the African ancestry in Levantine Muslims come from then? Exclusively from mixing with Egyptians? I find that quite unlikely.
Sahelians (Nilo-Saharans) & West Africans were sent in large numbers to the Levant and Egypt.Which is why BedouinA & BedouinB score Yoruba and Dinka, same goes for the Levantine & Egyptian muslims although Egyptians probably have an earlier ancient Dinka-like ancestry which is present in the Copts

While Arabia had more East African sources such as Nilotic & Omotic tribesmen sold by the Abysinnians occasional Cushitic & Ethio-Semites captured in raids by Somalis sold to the Yemenis.But the vast majority of slaves sent to Arabia and the entire Indian Ocean including the Gulf/Southern Iraq are Bantus (Zunuuj).

Cynic
06-12-2021, 06:18 AM
Sahelians (Nilo-Saharans) & West Africans were sent in large numbers to the Levant and Egypt.Which is why BedouinA & BedouinB score Yoruba and Dinka, same goes for the Levantine & Egyptian muslims although Egyptians probably have an earlier ancient Dinka-like ancestry which is present in the Copts

While Arabia had more East African sources such as Nilotic & Omotic tribesmen sold by the Abysinnians occasional Cushitic & Ethio-Semites captured in raids by Somalis sold to the Yemenis.But the vast majority of slaves sent to Arabia and the entire Indian Ocean including the Gulf/Southern Iraq are Bantus (Zunuuj).

Funnily enough I was considering this recently. This is why I now include a Bantu proxy alongside a Horner one in my models when modeling west Asian populations.

drobbah
06-12-2021, 06:45 AM
Funnily enough I was considering this recently. This is why I now include a Bantu proxy alongside a Horner one in my models when modeling west Asian populations.
It should depend on the West Asian populations.For Mashriqi Arabs (Northern Middle Easterners) except Southern Iraq it would make more sense to use Dinka or Sudanese & Yoruba.I think many of these slaves to Egypt/Levant were provided by the Christian Nubian kingdoms prior to the tribal Arab invasions of Sudan.Even Salahuddin had to face a 50k African Fatimid army revolt, these men probably came from Nubia and other areas in the Sahel.These Black troops were recruited by the Fatimids for a long time period

For Arabian Peninsula populations especially if we get any Omani samples it's best to use Bantus,Sudanese & a Horner population although I don't think there is any actual significant percentage of the Arabian population outside of Yemen and perhaps some Hijazis that would have real autosomal Horner ancestry.

There was bidirectional admixture going on between Yemen & the Horn for a very long time and judging by the Saudi paternal african haplogroups on Y-full it seems the vast majority of Africans were Bantus,Sahelians (Hijaz still has a strong Sahelian descended population like the Levant due to the Hajj) and Horners of various genetic backgrounds such as southern Ethio Omotic tribes and Nilotics that live within the modern borders of the Horn.Currently there are only Saudis/Kuwaitis that fall under the same subclade as Mota the 4.5k Ethio HG with one Saudi sample sharing a tmrca of 10k years with him.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M329/

Itrane2000
07-17-2021, 10:11 PM
hello
I build a simple model to get the admixture of the levantine populations.


Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH087,0.08650 6,0.133034,-0.060716,-0.106914,-0.024312,-0.047411,-0.007285,-0.013153,0.027406,0.023508,-0.005846,-0.008393,0.017691,0.001376,-0.010722,0.013922,0.005607,-0.003674,-0.004777,0.005002,-0.00025,0.001484,-0.008751,-0.003374,0.007424
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH135,0.06943 2,0.145221,-0.053174,-0.106591,-0.003693,-0.03263,-0.00047,-0.026307,0.016157,0.010205,0.011854,-0.004496,0.030624,-0.016652,-0.021987,0.009546,0.007953,-0.014442,-0.019232,0.00963,0.00574,0.007914,-0.005546,-0.01928,-0.002994
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH8,0.080814, 0.145221,-0.066373,-0.101422,-0.021542,-0.029562,-0.003055,-0.012923,0.003272,0.002005,0.012179,-0.008393,0.019475,0.003303,0.001086,0.010872,-0.00339,0.001394,0.007668,-0.003627,0.006988,0.001731,0,0.000241,0.003473
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Abel_IA:I2201,0.087644,0.14 9283,-0.05506,-0.100776,-0.014156,-0.032072,-0.002115,-0.006231,0.012476,0.007654,0.011205,-0.003297,0.01888,0.003716,0.002443,0.010475,0.0033 9,0.008235,-0.001006,-0.003252,0.005366,0.009027,-0.002835,0.000482,-0.004071
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Megiddo_IA:I4517,0.084229,0 .150298,-0.060716,-0.091409,-0.014464,-0.044623,-0.00517,-0.005077,0.011658,0.006014,0.012179,-0.007343,0.019177,0.006193,-0.002307,0.002254,-0.026207,0.005828,0.00729,-0.005753,0.001622,-0.002226,-0.006162,-0.000843,-0.005987
Arabs:Saudi,0.0494498,0.1411588,-0.0646136,-0.1161014,-0.0115919,-0.0481242,-0.0133696,-0.008179,0.0516537,-0.0058923,0.016293,-0.0318551,0.063346,0.0021408,0.0031818,0.0271809,-0.0220493,0.0042931,-0.0003213,0.0302646,0.0130601,0.0168853,-0.0072031,0.0082741,-0.0097528
Arabs:Yemenite_Mahra,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Egyptian:EGY_Hellenistic_contam:JK2888,0.040976,0. 159438,-0.055437,-0.102068,0,-0.060798,-0.023266,-0.008307,0.048472,0.007472,0.015427,-0.019782,0.034341,-0.004129,0.00475,-0.015646,-0.024121,0.007348,-0.005028,-0.00025,-0.004617,0.008285,-0.012571,0.005302,-0.005987
Egyptian:EGY_Late_Period:JK2134,0.046667,0.152329,-0.037712,-0.121126,0,-0.054384,-0.010575,-0.006231,0.048472,0.007289,0.000162,-0.010191,0.026164,0.000138,0,-0.008486,-0.007953,-0.005194,-0.00176,0.006878,0.005989,0.001237,0.005053,0.0131 34,0.006227
Egyptian:EGY_Late_Period:JK2911,0.053497,0.141159,-0.04714,-0.115635,-0.004001,-0.04518,-0.020681,-0.003231,0.046427,0.005103,0.017863,-0.012739,0.0333,-0.011836,-0.001629,0.004375,-0.00691,0.001267,-0.005279,0.017133,0.005241,0.002102,0.002218,-0.005302,-0.007424
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.1025221,0.131656,-0.0023166,-0.0759511,0.0310606,-0.0356582,-0.0335058,0.012016,0.0766524,0.0315659,0.0088154,-0.0092596,0.0247308,-0.0204174,0.0203483,-0.0157212,0.0001119,-0.0288305,-0.0534217,0.0119165,-0.0208205,-0.0511129,0.0307414,-0.0051899,0.0074671
Berber:Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Sub_Saharan:Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
Sub_Saharan:Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028, 0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
Western_Europe:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0. 0551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
Western_Europe:Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111, 0.0582862,0.0090081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
Central_Asian:Turkmen_Uzbekistan,0.0811938,-0.053823,-0.0083593,-0.004845,-0.0412383,-0.0036255,0.0096353,0.0082688,-0.0133623,-0.0095067,-0.0060627,-0.0018233,0.0010902,-0.0070417,0.0041168,0.007646,-0.0036073,0.0019003,0.0005868,-0.0026055,-0.0072372,-0.0037095,-0.0040468,0.0001808,0.0027543
Egyptian,-0.01548,0.1341176,-0.042778,-0.0872208,-0.0044008,-0.0333553,-0.0137874,0.0005691,0.037605,0.0011968,0.0069772,-0.0087772,0.0229334,0.0018258,-0.0005202,-6.19e-05,-0.003303,-0.0026182,-0.0034861,0.0032432,-0.0005781,-0.0022875,0.0008381,0.0008636,-0.0004072

45586

Cynic
07-18-2021, 05:44 AM
hello
I build a simple model to get the admixture of the levantine populations.


Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH087,0.08650 6,0.133034,-0.060716,-0.106914,-0.024312,-0.047411,-0.007285,-0.013153,0.027406,0.023508,-0.005846,-0.008393,0.017691,0.001376,-0.010722,0.013922,0.005607,-0.003674,-0.004777,0.005002,-0.00025,0.001484,-0.008751,-0.003374,0.007424
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH135,0.06943 2,0.145221,-0.053174,-0.106591,-0.003693,-0.03263,-0.00047,-0.026307,0.016157,0.010205,0.011854,-0.004496,0.030624,-0.016652,-0.021987,0.009546,0.007953,-0.014442,-0.019232,0.00963,0.00574,0.007914,-0.005546,-0.01928,-0.002994
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Ashkelon_IA2:ASH8,0.080814, 0.145221,-0.066373,-0.101422,-0.021542,-0.029562,-0.003055,-0.012923,0.003272,0.002005,0.012179,-0.008393,0.019475,0.003303,0.001086,0.010872,-0.00339,0.001394,0.007668,-0.003627,0.006988,0.001731,0,0.000241,0.003473
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Abel_IA:I2201,0.087644,0.14 9283,-0.05506,-0.100776,-0.014156,-0.032072,-0.002115,-0.006231,0.012476,0.007654,0.011205,-0.003297,0.01888,0.003716,0.002443,0.010475,0.0033 9,0.008235,-0.001006,-0.003252,0.005366,0.009027,-0.002835,0.000482,-0.004071
Levant_Iron_Age:Levant_Megiddo_IA:I4517,0.084229,0 .150298,-0.060716,-0.091409,-0.014464,-0.044623,-0.00517,-0.005077,0.011658,0.006014,0.012179,-0.007343,0.019177,0.006193,-0.002307,0.002254,-0.026207,0.005828,0.00729,-0.005753,0.001622,-0.002226,-0.006162,-0.000843,-0.005987
Arabs:Saudi,0.0494498,0.1411588,-0.0646136,-0.1161014,-0.0115919,-0.0481242,-0.0133696,-0.008179,0.0516537,-0.0058923,0.016293,-0.0318551,0.063346,0.0021408,0.0031818,0.0271809,-0.0220493,0.0042931,-0.0003213,0.0302646,0.0130601,0.0168853,-0.0072031,0.0082741,-0.0097528
Arabs:Yemenite_Mahra,0.0542556,0.1360809,-0.0682589,-0.1211978,-0.0037272,-0.056305,-0.0130301,-0.0088204,0.0628798,-0.002045,0.0167981,-0.0325711,0.0657411,0.0058413,0.0080528,0.0270778,-0.0210643,0.0028717,-0.0019133,0.0248312,0.0137259,0.0160887,-0.0087369,0.0027848,-0.0052289
Egyptian:EGY_Hellenistic_contam:JK2888,0.040976,0. 159438,-0.055437,-0.102068,0,-0.060798,-0.023266,-0.008307,0.048472,0.007472,0.015427,-0.019782,0.034341,-0.004129,0.00475,-0.015646,-0.024121,0.007348,-0.005028,-0.00025,-0.004617,0.008285,-0.012571,0.005302,-0.005987
Egyptian:EGY_Late_Period:JK2134,0.046667,0.152329,-0.037712,-0.121126,0,-0.054384,-0.010575,-0.006231,0.048472,0.007289,0.000162,-0.010191,0.026164,0.000138,0,-0.008486,-0.007953,-0.005194,-0.00176,0.006878,0.005989,0.001237,0.005053,0.0131 34,0.006227
Egyptian:EGY_Late_Period:JK2911,0.053497,0.141159,-0.04714,-0.115635,-0.004001,-0.04518,-0.020681,-0.003231,0.046427,0.005103,0.017863,-0.012739,0.0333,-0.011836,-0.001629,0.004375,-0.00691,0.001267,-0.005279,0.017133,0.005241,0.002102,0.002218,-0.005302,-0.007424
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.1025221,0.131656,-0.0023166,-0.0759511,0.0310606,-0.0356582,-0.0335058,0.012016,0.0766524,0.0315659,0.0088154,-0.0092596,0.0247308,-0.0204174,0.0203483,-0.0157212,0.0001119,-0.0288305,-0.0534217,0.0119165,-0.0208205,-0.0511129,0.0307414,-0.0051899,0.0074671
Berber:Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Sub_Saharan:Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
Sub_Saharan:Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028, 0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
Western_Europe:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0. 0551727,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
Western_Europe:Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111, 0.0582862,0.0090081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
Central_Asian:Turkmen_Uzbekistan,0.0811938,-0.053823,-0.0083593,-0.004845,-0.0412383,-0.0036255,0.0096353,0.0082688,-0.0133623,-0.0095067,-0.0060627,-0.0018233,0.0010902,-0.0070417,0.0041168,0.007646,-0.0036073,0.0019003,0.0005868,-0.0026055,-0.0072372,-0.0037095,-0.0040468,0.0001808,0.0027543
Egyptian,-0.01548,0.1341176,-0.042778,-0.0872208,-0.0044008,-0.0333553,-0.0137874,0.0005691,0.037605,0.0011968,0.0069772,-0.0087772,0.0229334,0.0018258,-0.0005202,-6.19e-05,-0.003303,-0.0026182,-0.0034861,0.0032432,-0.0005781,-0.0022875,0.0008381,0.0008636,-0.0004072

45586

Much appreciated. Excellent model. Not sure why I didnít use Turkmen to sus out Turkish ancestry. Could you add Mycenaean to the model? I want to see if the Western European disappears. Itís far too high. Also consider adding a North Caucasian group. Thanks