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Biharguy
05-18-2021, 03:12 PM
I noticed on 23 and me that one of my second cousin's was positive for I-M423 Y-Haplogroup. We are from South Asia, particularly Bihar, India. Was wondering if anyone may know how it ended up there? Could it have come from Persian/Central Asia migrations? It said online that is is in high frequencies in Southern Europe. He has gotten 0.3% Balkan and 0.2% Eastern European in terms of admixture. Is it safe to say he had a European ancestor?

Coldmountains
05-18-2021, 03:20 PM
I noticed on 23 and me that one of my second cousin's was positive for I-M423 Y-Haplogroup. We are from South Asia, particularly Bihar, India. Was wondering if anyone may know how it ended up there? Could it have come from Persian/Central Asia migrations? It said online that is is in high frequencies in Southern Europe. He has gotten 0.3% Balkan and 0.2% Eastern European in terms of admixture. Is it safe to say he had a European ancestor?

23andme trace admixture can be pretty much ignored because it fluctuates wildly. Actually I2a2a (not I-M423) was found already in ancient South Asian DNA in Swat_IA

I12471 Grave 61, single burial , 609 Pakistan 1000-800 BCE M I2a2a1b1b1 HV17 SPGT Katelai_IA Swat Valley, Katelai South Asia

I12149 Grave 122, single burial , 568 Pakistan 1000-800 BCE M I2a2a1b1b1 M30c1 SPGT Katelai_IA Swat Valley, Katelai South Asia

I2a is today rare but found among Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazara (up to 5% among Hazara including I-M423), Punjabis and other South Asians. Without deeper testing his Y-DNA some very distant historical european admixture can not be 100% excluded but is quite unlikely in my eyes rather it seems to be brought by BA Indo-Iranians or potentially West Asians like Persians.

Biharguy
05-18-2021, 03:27 PM
Okay that makes sense. Yes I was leaning towards Central Asian or Persian as the source for the Y-Haplogroup. And yes he would have to go for more in depth Y-Haplogroup testing. Just found it interesting it ended up in Eastern India of all places.

Coldmountains
05-18-2021, 03:38 PM
Okay that makes sense. Yes I was leaning towards Central Asian or Persian as the source for the Y-Haplogroup. And yes he would have to go fir more in depth Y-Haplogroup testing. Just found it interesting it ended up in Eastern India of all places.

South Asia is ridiculously undersampled so far. Many branches are at YFull only represented by academic samples at all so we can expect a lot of surprises from South Asia in the future, especially for rare lineages/branches. We probably will see some crazy/unexpected results among some Muslim communities especially in urban areas like some Tajiks in Afghanistan had I1a1a which is likely Germanic (Hunnic/Gothic?) and some Hazara had Y-DNA B.

Artmar
05-19-2021, 08:29 AM
South Asia is ridiculously undersampled so far. Many branches are at YFull only represented by academic samples at all so we can expect a lot of surprises from South Asia in the future, especially for rare lineages/branches. We probably will see some crazy/unexpected results among some Muslim communities especially in urban areas like some Tajiks in Afghanistan had I1a1a which is likely Germanic (Hunnic/Gothic?) and some Hazara had Y-DNA B.

And typically European subbranches of R1a among sampled populations of Afghanistan, for example. They were already detected by some researchers but I can't remember which ones. It is not so ridiculous given the fact that I have found numerous stories in various medias like this one: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2015/07/06/russian-soldiers-start-a-second-life-in-afghanistan-a47933 and the fact that Mongols took some of the medieval populations in Europe captive. Their descendants live as far east as China.
See this R1a: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/ , Chinese I1: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A17212/ and this I2-P78 Chinese: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y5362/

Coldmountains
05-19-2021, 09:18 AM
And typically European subbranches of R1a among sampled populations of Afghanistan, for example. They were already detected by some researchers but I can't remember which ones. It is not so ridiculous given the fact that I have found numerous stories in various medias like this one: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2015/07/06/russian-soldiers-start-a-second-life-in-afghanistan-a47933 and the fact that Mongols took some of the medieval populations in Europe captive. Their descendants live as far east as China.
See this R1a: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC66325/ , Chinese I1: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A17212/ and this I2-P78 Chinese: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y5362/

I remember some Z92 in some Afghan dataset. There is an old Indo-Iranian Z283 clade found also in ancient Central Asians under which i think most but not all Z283 in Central/South Asia is https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP4858/. But Uzbek, Hazara and some Tajiks definitely have some very rare but existing "recent" Europen clades especially when they are from big urban areas where you had all kinds of medieval migration and slavery.



NAI002/NAI003; 50 BC-100 AD*; Naimaa Tolgoi, Arkhangai Aimag; Mongolia; Late Xiongnu; R1a1a1b1-Z283>Z282>Y17491>YP4858>pre-Y190984


Z283 level: Z283/PF6217/S339+ T>A (1A)

Z282 level: *no calls*

Y17491 level: *no calls*

YP4858 level: YP4859/SK2014+ C>T (3T); YP5822+ T>C (1C)

Y190984 level: Y190991+ T>A (1A); FT307847/Y191002- A>C (1A); FT307874/Y190985- C>G (1C); FT307793/Y190997- T>C (1T); FT307803/Y190992- T>C (2T)

Biharguy
05-24-2021, 02:48 AM
I just found another one of my relatives that is I-CTS10936 positive on 23 and me. He's a third cousin of mine. He has 2.1% Italian admixture. Would that prove some kind of European descent?

44787

I would think that it maybe plausible.

laltota
05-24-2021, 10:20 AM
I just found another one of my relatives that is I-CTS10936 positive on 23 and me. He's a third cousin of mine. He has 2.1% Italian admixture. Would that prove some kind of European descent?

44787

I would think that it maybe plausible.

A deep yDna test would confirm if it is true. If he has a fairly recent European ancestor, then his sub-clade should be in a European branch on YFull, and match with some European(s) not too far back in time, but that depends on if a sufficient number people in that branch have done a deep yDna test. In any case the more people who do deep yDna and mtDna tests, the better to answer these sort of questions in the future.