PDA

View Full Version : Map - Busby et al Europe: U106; P312xL21,U152; L21; and U152



rms2
04-15-2014, 08:50 PM
I have cobbled together a Google map showing Busby et al results in Europe for U106; P312xL21,U152; L21; and U152. I know Busby is getting to be ancient history now, but it's the most thorough study of M269 we have. I did not include any locations with a sample size under 25, and I left out the locations in the Caucasus, since for almost all of them all the relevant categories were zero (there were two Caucasus locations where P312xL21,U152 came in at under one percent, but that was it). I also included a green balloon in Belgium for the results of the Brabant DNA Project and a red balloon in the Netherlands for the results of the Genome of the Netherlands DNA Project.

I might update the map in the future with balloons for the y-dna results of other relevant studies.

http://goo.gl/maps/TRznX

I think a Google map of Busby results makes a handy visual reference. Just click on the balloons for the stats.

Note: Some of the titles of the sample locations, particularly in Eastern Europe, do not match their listed map coordinates. I copied and pasted the map coordinates directly from the Busby spreadsheet, so the errors (few in number) are not mine.

Let's discuss the map and the results. :)

rms2
04-15-2014, 09:27 PM
Actually, I meant to start this thread in the "R1b General" subforum. If a mod or admin wants to move it, that would be appreciated.

rms2
04-15-2014, 09:59 PM
Actually, I meant to start this thread in the "R1b General" subforum. If a mod or admin wants to move it, that would be appreciated.

Thanks, DMXX!

rms2
04-15-2014, 10:03 PM
Busby's biggest shortcoming, in my opinion, is the fact that it did not include testing for DF27, since DF27 had not yet been discovered when the study was conducted. I think it is a relatively safe guess to conclude that most of the P312xL21,U152 in Busby is actually DF27+, although not all of it.

Heber
04-15-2014, 10:29 PM
Steve,
Thanks for posting the map.
Is there any chance of having separate coloured markers by SNP.
I understand it is difficult with Google Maps but if you port it to Google Earth it may be easier.

rms2
04-15-2014, 10:45 PM
Steve,
Thanks for posting the map.
Is there any chance of having separate coloured markers by SNP.
I understand it is difficult with Google Maps but if you port it to Google Earth it may be easier.

That would be nice, and the new Google Maps has something called "layers", but I am not yet adept at the newer format. I'm not sure I want to put in the extra work it would take to produce separate balloons or separate maps for the different haplogroups. As it is, it took me hours over several days to produce this map.

rms2
04-16-2014, 12:04 PM
I did not include Busby's stats for S29/U198 under U106 or for M222 under L21. Anyone who wants to can look those up for him or herself. No offense to members of either subclade, but they didn't seem that significant to me Europe-wide, and besides, there were numerous other subclades of both U106 and L21 not included in Busby.

RCO
04-16-2014, 01:27 PM
Very nice but I think the major breakthrough will be obtained only when we can get a large database of full Y DNA SNPs, for instance, if we discover a cluster of Northern Portuguese U106 with 15 local specific SNPs exclusive to NW Iberia and anterior SNPs in Germany, then we will be able to associate them with the Suebi and that can be the methodology to understand the movements around Western Europe.

rms2
04-16-2014, 10:04 PM
It may be a long time before that happens, since I think it would be pretty expensive to conduct a study with that kind of testing.

Agamemnon
04-16-2014, 10:55 PM
Quite a lot of U152 in southern and central Portugal...
That's very interesting indeed!

And U106 doesn't reach 30% anywhere in the Isles.

rms2
04-16-2014, 11:19 PM
Quite a lot of U152 in southern and central Portugal...
That's very interesting indeed!

Yes, that 12.9% in Castro Verde in southern Portugal is the high water mark of U152 in Iberia. In no place else there does it come close to that. It is odd that there and in Coimbra in central Portugal (at 9%) U152 is relatively high, but it drops rather precipitously at the other Portuguese locations.



And U106 doesn't reach 30% anywhere in the Isles.

True, and that despite the obvious eastern bias of the sample locations in England. Only Exeter in Devon is a truly western location, and there L21 was nearly 38% of the total. IMHO, L21 surpasses U106 in England, and that would show had Busby et al included more western sample locations.

One thing that is intriguing is the "Saami" location up in northern Sweden. All of the relevant categories were at zero except for U106, which scored 5.7%. Of course, the sample size was regrettably only 35, so that means two men tested U106+. Too bad they didn't go for a bigger sample there, but it is interesting that U106 was found among the Saami but no P312 clades.

Agamemnon
04-16-2014, 11:37 PM
Yes, that 12.9% in Castro Verde in southern Portugal is the high water mark of U152 in Iberia. In no place else there does it come close to that. It is odd that there and in Coimbra in central Portugal (at 9%) U152 is relatively high, but it drops rather precipitously at the other Portuguese locations.

Castro Verde lies within the vicinity of what once used to be Tartessian territory, Koch argued in favour of a Celtic classification of Tartessian but this is hotly debated...
Either way, this is very intriguing, I'm starting to wonder whether the Lusitanians carried U152 as well given its frequency in central Portugal.


One thing that is intriguing is the "Saami" location up in northern Sweden. All of the relevant categories were at zero except for U106, which scored 5.7%. Of course, the sample size was regrettably only 35, so that means two men tested U106+. Too bad they didn't go for a bigger sample there, but it is interesting that U106 was found among the Saami but no P312 clades.

Yeah I spotted it as well, I also found this rather interesting.
The U152 frequencies in the southern Balkans also caught my eye.

rms2
04-16-2014, 11:50 PM
Since I think of U152 as a relative latecomer to Iberia, and probably a bearer, at first, anyway, of P-Celtic, I would not associate it with the Tartessians, but I could be wrong. We still have what is probably DF27 at 29% there in Castro Verde. I think the honor of being Tartessian Celts goes to those guys, and the U152 and L21 were Celtic kinfolk who may have come as traders.

It would be interesting to know to what subclades of U152 those Greeks and Cretans belong. I suspect Roman impact there, but it could be even older. I know about the adventures of Brennus and his crew in the 3rd century BC, but I doubt they had much of a genetic impact on Greece and Crete.

Agamemnon
04-16-2014, 11:57 PM
Since I think of U152 as a relative latecomer to Iberia, and probably a bearer, at first, anyway, of P-Celtic, I would not associate it with the Tartessians, but I could be wrong. We still have what is probably DF27 at 29% there in Castro Verde. I think the honor of being Tartessian Celts goes to those guys, and the U152 and L21 were Celtic kinfolk who may have come as traders.

Well, never say never :)
But I think you're right overall, U152 and L21 seem to be relatively late intruders to Iberia. Though this should be less true, in theory, for L21 considering the fact that Celtiberian was a Q-Celtic language (note: I am not a fan of the P-Celtic/Q-Celtic classification, I find it rather dull as a student in linguistics).
I'd like to see more data on Galicia, I strongly suspect we'll see an Iberian L21 hotspot emerging if we do so.



It would be interesting to know to what subclades of U152 those Greeks and Cretans belong. I suspect Roman impact there, but it could be even older. I know about the adventures of Brennus and his crew in the 3rd century BC, but I don't it had much of a genetic impact on Greece and Crete.

Romans are a possibility, but as far as Cretan U152 is of concern I think most of it might've come with the Venetians (they ruled the island for four centuries after all).
I also think Brennus' marauding Galatians had more of an impact in Albania and mainland Greece though I agree it might be negligible.

Though as far as I know, the few Greek U152 cases turned out to be L2.

I'd like to see more data on Anatolian U152 as well, even if it seems unlikely to show up in any significant frequency back there.

rms2
04-17-2014, 12:09 AM
I should have remembered that the Venetians ruled Crete, since I pointed that out a few years ago in a controversy on Rootsweb over a then-current genetic study. The study (I cannot remember its title) claimed the R-M269 (that's as far as they got) on the highlands of Crete was "Paleolithic", while the J-whatever and E1b1b around the coast was Neolithic. I pointed out that the M269 there was almost all WAMH and that the Venetians ruled Crete for quite some time beginning, if I recall correctly, in the 13th century or thereabouts, took the preferred highland locations, and even settled some Greeks there.

The J and E1b1b in Crete may have been Neolithic, but the R1b was even more recent.

Agamemnon
04-17-2014, 12:22 AM
I should have remembered that the Venetians ruled Crete, since I pointed that out a few years ago in a controversy on Rootsweb over a then-current genetic study. The study (I cannot remember its title) claimed the R-M269 (that's as far as they got) on the highlands of Crete was "Paleolithic", while the J-whatever and E1b1b around the coast was Neolithic. I pointed out that the M269 there was almost all WAMH and that the Venetians ruled Crete for quite some time beginning, if I recall correctly, in the 13th century or thereabouts, took the preferred highland locations, and even settled some Greeks there.

The J and E1b1b in Crete may have been Neolithic, but the R1b was even more recent.


Paleolithic R1b is a seriously outdated theory, mostly based on a very poor understanding of population genetics.
It has died a painful and horrible death at the hands of genome-wide studies of Neolithic samples, and I expect it to die an even more painful death when we get our hands on Mesolithic samples.

I think E-V13 mostly came about with the Mycenaeans (in the Eastern Mediterranean and areas settled by the Greeks, otherwise I think a fair case can be made for an arrival during the Neolithic in most parts of Europe), but I could be wrong... Especially considering this haplogroup's phylogeny.

J2 and J1, however, still remain one of the biggest mysteries in population genetics if you ask me.
They're commonly thought of as classic Neolithic markers, but they have yet to show up anywhere in a Neolithic context.

I think these lineages' absence will draw a lot of attention if they fail to show up in Neolithic Near Eastern samples (which is a possibility, and not an unlikely one at that).

rms2
04-17-2014, 12:17 PM
Paleolithic R1b is a seriously outdated theory, mostly based on a very poor understanding of population genetics.
It has died a painful and horrible death at the hands of genome-wide studies of Neolithic samples, and I expect it to die an even more painful death when we get our hands on Mesolithic samples.
. . .

We already have some Mesolithic y-dna results, and none of them was R1b of any kind: La Braña in Spain, Motala in Sweden, and Loschbour in Luxembourg.

Ancient European Y-DNA (to about 1000 BC) (http://goo.gl/maps/Dh90)

Anglecynn
04-17-2014, 12:32 PM
We already have some Mesolithic y-dna results, and none of them was R1b of any kind: La Braña in Spain, Motala in Sweden, and Loschbour in Luxembourg.

Ancient European Y-DNA (to about 1000 BC) (http://goo.gl/maps/Dh90)

It's fascinating to see how R1b-M269 and M343 were right on the doorstep with R1a in Germany at pretty much the same time.

Agamemnon
04-17-2014, 12:49 PM
We already have some Mesolithic y-dna results, and none of them was R1b of any kind: La Braña in Spain, Motala in Sweden, and Loschbour in Luxembourg.

Ancient European Y-DNA (to about 1000 BC) (http://goo.gl/maps/Dh90)

I am well aware, and I still think we need more, much more... At least as much as the number of samples we got from Treilles (I actually spoke with the author, Marie Lacan, a few years ago).


It's fascinating to see how R1b-M269 and M343 were right on the doorstep with R1a in Germany at pretty much the same time.

It's fascinating and frustrating at the same time, R1b's dispersal is still quite mysterious and much of what we say about it is pure speculation at best.
Though I think R1b's proximity to R1a actually eases the case for an IE association, the blunt truth is that we're still left with pure speculation at this point...

palamede
04-17-2014, 04:14 PM
Castro Verde lies within the vicinity of what once used to be Tartessian territory, Koch argued in favour of a Celtic classification of Tartessian but this is hotly debated...
Either way, this is very intriguing, I'm starting to wonder whether the Lusitanians carried U152 as well given its frequency in central Portugal.

Yeah I spotted it as well, I also found this rather interesting.
The U152 frequencies in the southern Balkans also caught my eye.

Probably, the coming of IE-speaking popularions in Spain was in several vagues. if we look at the maps in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtiberians , you will see "Celtici" in part of the south Portigal and Spanish Extramadura which may be a later arrival..

From my knowledge , the greatest L21 frequency in Iberia is in Guipuzcoa, the heart of Basque Country with about 20-22%.

In Greece, there were Gallic mercenaries from North Italy and Danubian regions in 3th and 2th centuries BC, Roman armies several times, Francs and Venitians after the fourth crusade in 1204 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/LatinEmpire2.png/290px-LatinEmpire2.png and even the famous Catalan and Navarrese bands in 14th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarrese_Company

I have to remark that Busby samples for France are in fact samples of Ramos-Luis et al in the Blood Institutes. The numbers and frequencies are the same (except South-West in Toulouse with a number increased from 67 to 83 and slight frequency changes.

rms2
04-18-2014, 12:37 PM
It isn't likely that Gallic mercenaries of the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC actually settled in Greece and had much of a genetic impact, nor did the 4th Crusade involve settlements of westerners in Greece. In fact, the 4th Crusade is bitterly remembered by the Greeks and by Orthodox Christians in general as the final straw in the Great Schism that sundered western and eastern Christendom.

The Romans, however, controlled Greece for many centuries, beginning in 146 BC.

MitchellSince1893
04-18-2014, 04:21 PM
When you look at the Urnfield culture map, it matches Busby in many ways as it pertains to U152.

The area of Spain with the highest % of U152 in Busby is the area affected by Urnfield (the same area of Spain where my match on the U152 tree comes from).

Also look at the Urnfield in Poland (before Slavs arrived), Northern Italy, and going toward Greece. Even the arrows going to England match higher % areas of U152.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/UrnfieldCulture.jpg

rms2
04-18-2014, 08:44 PM
When you look at the Urnfield culture map, it matches Busby in many ways as it pertains to U152.

The area of Spain with the highest % of U152 in Busby is the area affected by Urnfield (the same area of Spain where my match on the U152 tree comes from).

Also look at the Urnfield in Poland (before Slavs arrived), Northern Italy, and going toward Greece. Even the arrows going to England match higher % areas of U152.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/UrnfieldCulture.jpg

Interesting, and that is something to consider, but it strikes me as a trifle early for the advance of U152 that far north. I'm not saying it's wrong, though.

Generalissimo
04-19-2014, 11:16 AM
Also look at the Urnfield in Poland (before Slavs arrived), Northern Italy, and going toward Greece. Even the arrows going to England match higher % areas of U152.

Is there any real evidence for the presence of R1b in Poland before the eastward migrations of Germans and later Scots during the Middle Ages?

R.Rocca
04-19-2014, 11:30 AM
Is there any real evidence for the presence of R1b in Poland before the eastward migrations of Germans and later Scots during the Middle Ages?

If instead of "evidence" you will accept "inference", then the answer is likely "yes"... https://repozytorium.amu.edu.pl/jspui/bitstream/10593/6186/1/12_MAKAROWICZ%20(2).pdf

rms2
04-19-2014, 11:35 AM
Is there any real evidence for the presence of R1b in Poland before the eastward migrations of Germans and later Scots during the Middle Ages?

There is some evidence of Bell Beaker settlements in Poland: Northern and Southern Bell Beakers in Poland (https://repozytorium.amu.edu.pl/jspui/bitstream/10593/6186/1/12_MAKAROWICZ%20%282%29.pdf).

Of course, we don't know if Beaker carried R1b always and everywhere, although it did at the Kromsdorf, Germany, site, circa 2600 BC.

Generalissimo
04-19-2014, 11:36 AM
If instead of "evidence" you will accept "inference", then the answer is likely "yes"... https://repozytorium.amu.edu.pl/jspui/bitstream/10593/6186/1/12_MAKAROWICZ%20(2).pdf

Unfortunately no.

Present-day eastern Germany was the main contact zone between the major western and eastern cultures during the early metal ages. So fashions could have spread in both directions from there without much gene flow.

In other words, the Corded Ware people of what is now Holland might have been mostly R1b, while the Bell Beakers of Poland mostly R1a. We won't know until someone does the relevant tests.

rms2
04-19-2014, 11:37 AM
If instead of "evidence" you will accept "inference", then the answer is likely "yes"... https://repozytorium.amu.edu.pl/jspui/bitstream/10593/6186/1/12_MAKAROWICZ%20(2).pdf

Oops! It looks like we posted a link to the same paper. I was just a trifle slower on the draw. :)

R.Rocca
04-19-2014, 11:45 AM
Unfortunately no.

Present-day eastern Germany was the main contact zone between the major western and eastern cultures during the early metal ages. So fashions could have spread in both directions from there without much gene flow.

In other words, the Corded Ware people of what is now Holland might have been mostly R1b, while the Bell Beakers of Poland mostly R1a. We won't know until someone does the relevant tests.

Of course ancient DNA is the only real evidence, but just keep in mind that the only Bell Beaker ancient DNA is from the eastern part of Germany and it was not too far from modern day Poland. Your use of the word "mostly" is well noted and that may very well be the case that there was different R1a/R1b ratios in the contact zones between the two cultures.

rms2
04-19-2014, 11:59 AM
There are some indications in that paper that Beaker males differed from most of the local population.



Anthropological analyses carried out in Little Poland show differences between male skeletons and those of members of local populations . . . only female skeletons that exhibited local characteristics . . .

The anthropological dissimilarity of Beaker populations as compared to the Corded Ware Culture and other Late Neolithic groups as well as differences in the sphere of material culture and funerary rituals
bring out Bell Beakers strangeness with respect to local societies. (p. 150)

rawnr
02-23-2019, 03:45 PM
I'd really like to have some discussion with you.
I'm Rawn
R-P312+ R-U152+ R-L2+ R-FGC22501+ R-Y37744+ R-BY64614+ R-BY159214+

Ravai
03-08-2019, 03:03 PM
Hello rms2,

What do you think of the following article I wrote about R-BY3485 (Switzerland origin)?

https://famiglia-rabai.blogspot.com/2019/02/genesis-del-haplogrupo-by3485.html (Use translate)

King regards
David

K33
03-08-2019, 07:07 PM
Interesting, and that is something to consider, but it strikes me as a trifle early for the advance of U152 that far north. I'm not saying it's wrong, though.

Alternate explanation: the 15.4% frequency of U152 in southeast England (nearly double that of anywhere else in the country) is an artifact of the most densely colonized portion of Roman Britain. This would also jive with was Reich and others observed re: a slightly lower proportion of steppe ancestry in southern/eastern England vs the west.

jdean
03-08-2019, 08:36 PM
Alternate explanation: the 15.4% frequency of U152 in southeast England (nearly double that of anywhere else in the country) is an artifact of the most densely colonized portion of Roman Britain. This would also jive with was Reich and others observed re: a slightly lower proportion of steppe ancestry in southern/eastern England vs the west.

According to Chromo2 map data Yorkshire is the place you're most likely to find U152 but it's still only 8%

Scotland NE 3
Scotland NW 2
Scotland C 6
Scotland SE 5
Scotland SW 4
England N 6
England E 4
Yorkshires 8
England C 7
England SE 5
England SW 3
Wales 3
Connacht 4
Leinster 0
Munster 3
Ulster 2

rms2
03-08-2019, 11:27 PM
Hello rms2,

What do you think of the following article I wrote about R-BY3485 (Switzerland origin)?

https://famiglia-rabai.blogspot.com/2019/02/genesis-del-haplogrupo-by3485.html (Use translate)

King regards
David

It looks nice, but I don't speak or read Spanish and don't feel like running it through Google Translate, so that's about it.

digital_noise
03-08-2019, 11:51 PM
It looks nice, but I don't speak or read Spanish and don't feel like running it through Google Translate, so that's about it.

If you open it Chrome, its a single mouse click ordeal...

GoldenHind
03-09-2019, 12:14 AM
According to Chromo2 map data Yorkshire is the place you're most likely to find U152 but it's still only 8%

Scotland NE 3
Scotland NW 2
Scotland C 6
Scotland SE 5
Scotland SW 4
England N 6
England E 4
Yorkshires 8
England C 7
England SE 5
England SW 3
Wales 3
Connacht 4
Leinster 0
Munster 3
Ulster 2

That suggests to me that U152 in Britain is not primarily of Roman origin, although that certainly could be the case in part. The second highest amount being in England C (if my assumption the C means central is correct ) reinforces that.

jdean
03-09-2019, 12:36 AM
That suggests to me that U152 in Britain is not primarily of Roman origin, although that certainly could be the case in part. The second highest amount being in England C (if my assumption the C means central is correct) reinforces that.

Assumption correct I abbreviated BDNA labels, I've only the data for most but this is one of their maps which the above can be superimposed onto.

29258

MitchellSince1893
03-09-2019, 02:43 AM
It looks nice, but I don't speak or read Spanish and don't feel like running it through Google Translate, so that's about it.


Genesis of haplogroup R-BY3485
The polymorphisms of the sex chromosomes (X and Y) have the same characteristics as those found in autosomes. Its main interest from the genealogical point of view is that, in the case of those that are in the Y chromosome, when transmitted exclusively by paternal route, they allow to establish relationships of biological kinship through the paternal branch. They also have a great interest as elements of analysis of the geographical origin of people. A single nucleotide polymorphism or SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) is a variation in DNA sequence that affects a single base (adenine (A), thymine (T), cytosine (C) or guanine (G)) from a genome sequence.

The analysis of the Y chromosome that I made in December 2015 with FamilyTreeDNA revealed that it belonged to haplogroup R1b-M269> P312> U152> L2, specifically to SNP BY3485, I also discovered that it shared the same result with three American families, whose ancestors turned out to be colonists of British, Irish and Welsh origin. In 2016, an anonymous sample from Sardinia (ERS257008-998), from the study by Francalacci et al 2013 , also tested positive for SNP BY3485. As of the date of this article, this sub-section is made up of 21 people, and many others are in the process of being confirmed.

In order to determine the geographical origin, the genetic diversity of the four groups that form the sub-layer BY3485 was evaluated; Swiss, Italian, British and Lebanese. In this sense, biparental markers such as microsatellites or Short Tandem Repeats (STR's) have been used.

Swiss Group:
527826 - Jacobi Adelgoti Berther b. 1665, Tujetsch, Switzerland
494139 - Georgio Berther b. around 1640, Tujetsch, Switzerland
N7090 - Ulrich Stauffer b. 1415, Röthenbach im Emmental, Switzerland
E4970 - Bartholomäus Stampa / Stampf / de la Stampha, 1322, Chur, Switzerland
26237 - Jacob Hagi, b 1532, Uerzlikon, Switzerland
189073 - Hans Hägi, b 1606, Kappel am Albis, Switzerland
274691 - Hans Höge / Hägi b. 1565 AD> 1589 Gelfingen, Switzerland

Italian group:
E4959 - Giovanni Stampa d. 1490, Gravedona, Italy
E5448 - Antonino Leto, b. 1787, Sicily, Italy
N119885 - Domenico Rabai, b. 1609, Savona, Italy
ERS257008-998 - Anonymous, Sardinia, Italy

British group:
N1904 - Richard J Walker b 1769, Augusta VA, d. 1856 Texas MO
22677 - Mr. Willis Wright, b. 1799 and d. 1859. North Carolina
26749 - Moses Wright, 1802 - 1867
20718 - Moses Wright, 1802 - 1867
90907 - McRae Williams, about 1796
74043 - Lewis Williams (1648-1717)
24268 - Griffith Williams, ca 1700 Wales-ca 1770 GA / SC
N113228 - Griffith Williams, ca 1700 Wales-ca 1770 GA / SC

Lebanese Group:
M11237 - Barghashe, آل برغشه; بكيفا; راشيا, Lebanon
ERS1789481 - Anonymous, Lebanon

The first important detail that I observed was that the only value shared by all the samples of the 'off-modal' BY3485 subset of P312 was that 100% of them had the DYS450 = 9 marker . If we compare it with the result of the 1,136 samples of the project R-U152 of FamilyTreeDNA that are below L2, 97.62% (1.109) have the STR DYS450 = 8, same modality as their ancestor P312. Only 2.20% (25) have STR DYS450 = 9, and what is more important, 60% (15) are BY3485 . It should be noted that not all BY3485 members are registered in the R-U152 project. The other 40% (10) are divided among five brother subclades.


Map of BY3485. Shaded in black the territory of the Helvetii, year 100 BC.

The evaluation of the genetic distances showed that the members that presented more distance between themselves belonged to the Swiss group and those that presented more proximity was the British. In the Swiss group, the Stauffer and Berther families had the most recent common ancestor about 1260 years ago; the Stauffer, Stampa and Hägi families, about 1800 years ago; and the Berther, Stampa and Hägi families about 2100 years. In contrast, in the British group, the Wright and Williams families separated them only 150 years; and these with the Walker family 1500 years. In the Italian group, the Stampa family separated him from the Leto and Rabai families for about 1200 years, while the Leto and Rabai families had the most recent common ancestor only 570 years ago. If we measure the genetic distance of the Italian Stampa family with the Swiss group we observe that the shortest distance was maintained with the other Stampa family, the common ancestor lived about 960 years ago. In the Lebanese group, the Barghashe family and the anonymous family separated them only 600 years, however it was the group that was the farthest of the four with an average of 2000 years of distance.


Zoom of the Swiss group

These evidences suggest that the genesis of the sub-layer BY3485 is found in the territory where the village of the Helvetii was located, in the western zone of present-day Switzerland. The Helvetii were a confederation of Celtic tribes, the best known or most powerful being that of the Vervigens and the Tigurins, who lived in the area between the Upper Rhine, the Swiss Jura, Lake Geneva and the Alps. At the end of the 2nd century BC they dominated the territory that stretched from the Upper Rhine and the Black Forest to the Main. Julius Caesar described his confrontation with the Helvetii in The Commentaries on the Gallic War that took place in the nine years (from 58 to 50 BC) that he spent fighting against local armies opposing Roman domination in Gaul .


Gallic warriors in the Alps. By Giuseppe Rava

The Tigurinos were one of the four cantons in which the Helvetii were subdivided, they were settled in the area of ​​Avenches. In 108 a. C., they invaded the southern Gaul along with the cimbros, teutones and ambrones. In 107 a. C., under the direction of Divicón, they were able to defeat to the Roman army in battle guided by the consul Lucio Casio Longino. However, instead of invading Italy they decided to return to their lands, escaping the defeat that the Roman legions inflicted on the Cimbri and Teutons. In 107, along with Longinus, the great-grandfather of Julius Caesar's wife died. This episode was the excuse that the Roman proconsul used to attack the Helvetii in 58 BC. C., still guided by Divicón, they had tried to cross the Roman province of Narbonense Gaul to reach the territory of the Sántonos where they had decided to settle. They were just the first Tigurinos to be defeated by Caesar while trying to cross Saona (perhaps in the vicinity of Trévoux, north of Lyon).


Helvetia

Under Roman peace the Helvetian territory integrated seamlessly into the prosperous Empire while the Romans assimilated the Celtic population, their aristocracy became involved in local government, a network of roads was built connecting the newly established colonial cities and divided the area between the Roman provinces.

How R-BY3485 came to Britannia and Lebanon is still to be clarified, and that we will analyze in the following chapters.
Here you go

MitchellSince1893
03-09-2019, 02:44 AM
double post