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Aemilius
06-30-2021, 08:19 PM
Hi, i'm from Brazil and came out as L-M349 in my DNA test in a local Brazilian company. From what i know from my genealogy, most of my ancestors came from Northern Portugal(Porto and Braga) and from Africa(most probably from the Congo region)with smaller influences from Azores and Amerindians. FTDNA results(from data transfer)gave my SSA ancestry to be around 21%, my 'Caucasian' ancestry around 75% and Amerindian 4%.
From what it seems, L-M349 isnt a common group among Brazilians so it was a bit of a surprise. Considering my paternal lineage most likely came from Northern Portugal(i do not have many information about this specific line yet, sadly), i expected something like E, R, J or I. I read some posts here and in other places and it became even more confusing. So i came here to try to learn more about my ydna and the possible routes to myself.
If it helps, i will annex here my Morley and Clade Finder results, although it seems the company i tested doesn't go in deep clades.
45390
45391
I read about a Good family of Swiss origins that do have L-M349 as ydna and thought this was curious cause i have a Swiss(specifically from Bern)genetic group in MyHeritage and some small Central European DNA in FTDNA(around 4%). The connection is impossible though(at least i think it is)but i found it interesting.
Thank you for your time and sorry for any gramatical errors in my text.

aaronbee2010
06-30-2021, 08:54 PM
Hi, i'm from Brazil and came out as L-M349 in my DNA test in a local Brazilian company. From what i know from my genealogy, most of my ancestors came from Northern Portugal(Porto and Braga) and from Africa(most probably from the Congo region)with smaller influences from Azores and Amerindians. FTDNA results(from data transfer)gave my SSA ancestry to be around 21%, my 'Caucasian' ancestry around 75% and Amerindian 4%.
From what it seems, L-M349 isnt a common group among Brazilians so it was a bit of a surprise. Considering my paternal lineage most likely came from Northern Portugal(i do not have many information about this specific line yet, sadly), i expected something like E, R, J or I. I read some posts here and in other places and it became even more confusing. So i came here to try to learn more about my ydna and the possible routes to myself.
If it helps, i will annex here my Morley and Clade Finder results, although it seems the company i tested doesn't go in deep clades.
45390
45391
I read about a Good family of Swiss origins that do have L-M349 as ydna and thought this was curious cause i have a Swiss(specifically from Bern)genetic group in MyHeritage and some small Central European DNA in FTDNA(around 4%). The connection is impossible though(at least i think it is)but i found it interesting.
Thank you for your time and sorry for any gramatical errors in my text.

There's a Brazillian on YFull who comes under L-FT75930 (downstream of L-M349). Perhaps this is also where you come under?

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/L-FT75930/

Artmar
06-30-2021, 08:54 PM
There is a chance you may probably match a Brazilian person declaring origins from Sao Paulo state, who recently tested and uploaded results to the YFull: https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/L-M349/ (YF85565) but who knows for sure. You need to re-test with either FTDNA or order a full genome sequence and upload to YFull to see where you fall (we can't exclude a possibility that you will match a Cuban or even anyone else in that clade).

vettor
06-30-2021, 09:03 PM
Hi, i'm from Brazil and came out as L-M349 in my DNA test in a local Brazilian company. From what i know from my genealogy, most of my ancestors came from Northern Portugal(Porto and Braga) and from Africa(most probably from the Congo region)with smaller influences from Azores and Amerindians. FTDNA results(from data transfer)gave my SSA ancestry to be around 21%, my 'Caucasian' ancestry around 75% and Amerindian 4%.
From what it seems, L-M349 isnt a common group among Brazilians so it was a bit of a surprise. Considering my paternal lineage most likely came from Northern Portugal(i do not have many information about this specific line yet, sadly), i expected something like E, R, J or I. I read some posts here and in other places and it became even more confusing. So i came here to try to learn more about my ydna and the possible routes to myself.
If it helps, i will annex here my Morley and Clade Finder results, although it seems the company i tested doesn't go in deep clades.
45390
45391
I read about a Good family of Swiss origins that do have L-M349 as ydna and thought this was curious cause i have a Swiss(specifically from Bern)genetic group in MyHeritage and some small Central European DNA in FTDNA(around 4%). The connection is impossible though(at least i think it is)but i found it interesting.
Thank you for your time and sorry for any gramatical errors in my text.

There is about 3% of haplogroup L ydna in South Tyrol Italy ...........these trentini , like the Veneti and Friuliani migrated to Brazil and Argentina from 1870 ............some numbers say between 500000 and 1 Million over a 40 year period.

Do the person know his ancestors?

Aemilius
07-01-2021, 01:42 AM
That clade that my fellow Brazilian fells on certainly is a possibility. Also, buying another test indeed is on my plans, although i fear it will have to wait some time.
As for the Italians with L(from Vettor comment), im quite surprised about that 3% in South Tyrol. But i think i do not have any connections with them, as my paternal line is from the countryside of Northeastern Brazil(specially above Pernambuco state)and the European settlers there were mostly of Portuguese origin. I do have roots in the Southeast of my country(being from So Paulo myself), where a lot of Italians came to work in the fields and in the factories but it is entirely on the maternal side of my family.
And again i thank you guys for your opinions, i will test my ydna in FTDNA as soon as i can. I have another question though: how did L enter Europe? It seems that multiple theories exist, yet it looks like we do not have much ancient L people to prove them, so im a little bit confused about it.

tipirneni
07-02-2021, 04:41 PM
That clade that my fellow Brazilian fells on certainly is a possibility. Also, buying another test indeed is on my plans, although i fear it will have to wait some time.
As for the Italians with L(from Vettor comment), im quite surprised about that 3% in South Tyrol. But i think i do not have any connections with them, as my paternal line is from the countryside of Northeastern Brazil(specially above Pernambuco state)and the European settlers there were mostly of Portuguese origin. I do have roots in the Southeast of my country(being from So Paulo myself), where a lot of Italians came to work in the fields and in the factories but it is entirely on the maternal side of my family.
And again i thank you guys for your opinions, i will test my ydna in FTDNA as soon as i can. I have another question though: how did L enter Europe? It seems that multiple theories exist, yet it looks like we do not have much ancient L people to prove them, so im a little bit confused about it.

Most probably these L clades are ancient Dravidian expansion into West along the Assur people. You can see localized heavy L among some Zoroastrians, some parts in Lebanon, some parts of Turkey which probably expanded into Europe along Mediterranean. Some clades were also found in Caucausus early on.
https://bharatuntoldstory.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tumblr_mqgquwilhm1rghicto1_1280.png?w=840

Some of the L migrations probably occurred along with F and H and probably T. Whereas some H show clear indications of ancient North African mix along with some of the recent T people the L people don't seem to have it. Which probably is the H2 and H1 split and spread of H2 along EEF into Europe was much earlier event than the western spread of L.

Lupriac
07-08-2021, 09:06 AM
Most probably these L clades are ancient Dravidian expansion into West along the Assur people. You can see localized heavy L among some Zoroastrians, some parts in Lebanon, some parts of Turkey which probably expanded into Europe along Mediterranean. Some clades were also found in Caucausus early on.

Some of the L migrations probably occurred along with F and H and probably T. Whereas some H show clear indications of ancient North African mix along with some of the recent T people the L people don't seem to have it. Which probably is the H2 and H1 split and spread of H2 along EEF into Europe was much earlier event than the western spread of L.

L-M349 is most certainly not tied to Dravidians, nor is L-M317; nor do Assyrians originate from Harappans. If anything, it's more likely South Asian "L" expanded from West Asia and we see the earliest example of basal L-M27 in Chalcolithic Armenia, in addition L-M317 and older sibling clade L-L595 happen to show up mostly in West Asia and also in a lower frequency in southern Europe.

tipirneni
07-08-2021, 04:15 PM
@lupriac missed the point that I was making. The South Asian spread into Europe of H1/H2/F1 is more older after which L clades followed the same direction and later followed the Assyrian expansion and some early Iranian cities which was why they were called Assur

vettor
07-08-2021, 04:35 PM
There's a Brazillian on YFull who comes under L-FT75930 (downstream of L-M349). Perhaps this is also where you come under?

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/L-FT75930/

let this Brazilian know that on Yfull site is a Italian with same haplotype , surname Bergamo ( as per the Lombard city ), who could match ............a lot of ( over 500000 ) Veneti, Friuli, Trentini and Lombards migrated to Brazil and Argentina

vettor
07-30-2021, 04:23 PM
Most probably these L clades are ancient Dravidian expansion into West along the Assur people. You can see localized heavy L among some Zoroastrians, some parts in Lebanon, some parts of Turkey which probably expanded into Europe along Mediterranean. Some clades were also found in Caucausus early on.
https://bharatuntoldstory.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/tumblr_mqgquwilhm1rghicto1_1280.png?w=840

Some of the L migrations probably occurred along with F and H and probably T. Whereas some H show clear indications of ancient North African mix along with some of the recent T people the L people don't seem to have it. Which probably is the H2 and H1 split and spread of H2 along EEF into Europe was much earlier event than the western spread of L.

The paper for these L in tyrol area stated specifically they did not come from the middle-east , but from north caucasus area

paper is from 2007

22 August 2007

New genetic evidence supports isolation and drift in the Ladin communities of the South Tyrolean Alps but not an ancient origin in the Middle East

They had to wait until 2 years later to address the K-M9 marker in the paper and its breakup into R1a, R1b, L and T samples ................L and T marker appeared only from 2008 onwards

ChrisR
07-31-2021, 08:23 AM
The paper for these L in tyrol area stated specifically they did not come from the middle-east , but from north caucasus area
So you mean:

New genetic evidence supports isolation and drift in the Ladin communities of the South Tyrolean Alps but not an ancient origin in the Middle East
Thomas et al 2007 (https://doi.org/10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201906)

I'm sorry but mtDNA HVS-1, 6 Y-STR markers and 11 Y-SNPs even for the time of publication was low-res and IMHO not useful to allow relevant relatedness conclusions. I personally use the paper just for Y-Haplogoup stats for the Ladin/Tyrol area.

This is the latest Y-Hg Stat I made for the Tyrol area. Indeed we can see in the Ladin/Dolomite area L+T reaches ca. 10% (in yellow uncertain numbers because lack of study resolution)
45804

My observation or better assumption is that ancient Rhaetia like the Etruscan area had significant influence from the Orient. Both areas are also tied trough usage of the same Alphabet etc.
For Tuscany I have however not seen such levels of L so I assume a slightly different migration probably more on the Adriatic side (modern Veneto) into the Dolomite Alps. The longtime isolation and drift for me is likely ongoing since Roman time (with low German/Slav influence later).
Speaking of the L you see two distinct clusters (Dolomites/Treviso, Gottschee, Janissary AND Switzerland/U.Danube/Slovenia) in https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Alpine_DNA_Project_AlpGen_Genealogy?iframe=yresult s
In North Italy there are more like vettor said: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly?iframe=yresults

vettor
07-31-2021, 05:16 PM
So you mean:

I'm sorry but mtDNA HVS-1, 6 Y-STR markers and 11 Y-SNPs even for the time of puplication was low-res and IMHO not useful to allow relevant relatedness conclusions. I personally use the paper just for Y-Haplogoup stats for the Ladin/Tyrol area.

This is the latest Y-Hg Stat I made for the Tyrol area. Indeed we can see in the Ladin/Dolomite area L reaches ca. 10% (in yellow uncertain numbers because lack of study resolution)
45804

My observation or better assumption is that ancient Rhaetia like the Etruscan area had significant influence from the Orient. Both areas are also tied trough usage of the same Alphabet etc.
For Tuscany I have however not seen such levels of L so I assume a slightly different migration probably more on the Adriatic side (modern Veneto) into the Dolomite Alps. The longtime isolation and drift for me is likely ongoing since Roman time (with low German/Slav influence later).
Speaking of the L you see two distinct clusters (Dolomites/Treviso, Gottschee, Janissary AND Switzerland/U.Danube/Slovenia) in https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Alpine_DNA_Project_AlpGen_Genealogy?iframe=yresult s
In North Italy there are more like vettor said: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/northitaly?iframe=yresults

thanks

Its been a while..............but I have 3 x L matches for DNA and I am not L
surnames...Toigo, Corso and Geis

The slovene and croatia ancient areas have found L and even a N in "Liburnian" islands ....not sure if they are ancient or modern

BTW....I have a family link via your T , surname Erspamer of 1704 from your bottom attachement............contact me privately and I will give you the marriages etc ................also have links with the Panz family of Wels Austria