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View Full Version : Looking for information on E-M84, and E-Y82779



vhesper
07-04-2021, 12:30 PM
I recently was confirmed for E-M84, as the most representative, finding a lot of connection with E-Y82779 as well. Does anyone have any reliable sources or information on this, at all?

Thanks!

leorcooper19
07-05-2021, 12:12 AM
I recently was confirmed for E-M84, as the most representative, finding a lot of connection with E-Y82779 as well. Does anyone have any reliable sources or information on this, at all?

Thanks!

Welcome to AG!

I briefly mentioned E-Y82779 in my thread on E-M84 here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23380-E-M84-A-much-needed-update-and-a-call-for-collaboration). As far as I know, the structure of the lineage is:
1) A basal Syrian Jew from Aleppo
2) A c. 1000 ybp subclade between two European christians from Poland and Austria
3) A young subclade including at least one Spaniard from Seville

Based on your background, I'd guess you are closer to #3. Did you test at FTDNA? If so, could you share some details about your closest matches? Do you have any matches at 37, 67, or 111 levels?

Farroukh
07-05-2021, 04:31 AM
vhesper, also I strongly recommend you to upgrade up to BigY700.
Y-STR matches with E-Y82779 can be just a homoplasic cases typical for E-M34 branches.

vhesper
07-25-2021, 11:37 AM
Welcome to AG!

I briefly mentioned E-Y82779 in my thread on E-M84 here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?23380-E-M84-A-much-needed-update-and-a-call-for-collaboration). As far as I know, the structure of the lineage is:
1) A basal Syrian Jew from Aleppo
2) A c. 1000 ybp subclade between two European christians from Poland and Austria
3) A young subclade including at least one Spaniard from Seville

Based on your background, I'd guess you are closer to #3. Did you test at FTDNA? If so, could you share some details about your closest matches? Do you have any matches at 37, 67, or 111 levels?

I am sorry for the late reply. I have ordered it and have yet to post the sample but will do so tomorrow. So in a few weeks I will know of which subclade it might go down towards.

All answers I found online relating to e-M84 are honestly confusing and contradictory. It seems each group wants to claim ownership of a Clade.

I am, indeed, an Iberian. Autosomaly, though potentially unrelated to this discussion, I am an atypical Portuguese: I consistently score in the Spanish levantine coast, and my admix still shows a strong near Eastern/levantine component. My father, however, is from the north of Portugal. Our surname is Teixeira. As far as I can understand, the paternal lineage stays in the north for, at least, two generations back from my father. Genealogy has been difficult and sketchy.

JoeyP37
07-25-2021, 01:11 PM
For what it's worth, Wikipedia states, using The Jewish Encyclopedia as a reference, that Teixeira is a Converso surname.

leorcooper19
07-25-2021, 04:04 PM
I am sorry for the late reply. I have ordered it and have yet to post the sample but will do so tomorrow. So in a few weeks I will know of which subclade it might go down towards.

All answers I found online relating to e-M84 are honestly confusing and contradictory. It seems each group wants to claim ownership of a Clade.

I am, indeed, an Iberian. Autosomaly, though potentially unrelated to this discussion, I am an atypical Portuguese: I consistently score in the Spanish levantine coast, and my admix still shows a strong near Eastern/levantine component. My father, however, is from the north of Portugal. Our surname is Teixeira. As far as I can understand, the paternal lineage stays in the north for, at least, two generations back from my father. Genealogy has been difficult and sketchy.

No problem! You ordered the Big Y-700? If so, that's great! Your results definitely will be interesting.

Yeah, there is a lot of misinformation and theories/hot takes without enough evidence about E-M84 online. The most common that I've seen are that it is directly descendant from the sampled Natufians of Raqefet Cave- which is demonstrably false- though it is technically possible other Natufians were ancestral to E-M84. Related to that is the idea that E-Z830 has been in the Levant for 19,000 years, despite the fact that E-CTS10880 (a major NE African/Horner clade) exists as a primary subclade of E-Z830 and the fact that E-M34 exists in very strong numbers across several Ethiopian groups. Another super common theory is that E-M84 was born in the Arabian Peninsula somewhere, usually argued for simply on the basis of its modern spread. I think the Late Chalcolithic and Bronze Age samples we have from the Levant, Turkey, and Armenia demonstrate how the initial diversification at least took place significantly north of Arabia. I think the real debate worth having is whether the MRCA of E-M84 lived in the north(east) Levant (around Syria) or in the southern Levant (around the Negev and Sinai). There's good evidence for both, and I'm looking forward to the eventual answer.

Re your autosomal results: that is interesting. How exactly Levantine-shifted are you for a Portuguese? Could you explain what you mean by the "Spanish Levantine coast"? Murcia area or what?


For what it's worth, Wikipedia states, using The Jewish Encyclopedia as a reference, that Teixeira is a Converso surname.

I saw this too, but I think we should interpret the excerpt as describing the surname Teixeira in a Jewish context. As it's a toponymic, I don't think there is a necessary link between that entry and vhesper's background, despite the very real possibility of him descending from Jews, given the 2800 ybp (at least) divergence from a Syrian Jew.

vhesper
07-28-2021, 09:57 PM
Regarding the Spanish levantine coast it encompasses all of the eastern Spanish thus Mediterranean coast. Recent tests, with resort to g25 coordinates, locate me closer to Andalusia + Murcia. I have to guess this is eastern Andalusia, by individual samples and distances and the proximity to Murcia. Nevertheless, the differences in Iberia are small.

As for the levantine admix, it is significantly smaller in western Iberians than eastern Iberians, denoting a stronger connection to the Mediterranean, especially during the Carthaginian and Roman periods. In fact, a lot of these calculators attribute me a "imperial southern Roman profile" when a eastern Mediterranean shift occurs in the Roman samples analyzed.

Regarding my surname, I'm afraid it's not a good source of information. it is not terribly uncommon and, despite the exceptional case of the one Jewish family, or the original Teixeiras (a very old feudal northern Portuguese and Spanish family) it does not tell you much at all.
To date there are no confirmed Jewish links to any of my sides of the family. And, as far as I know, I am also not of the old Teixeiras aristocratic stock; this would be possible but nearly impossible to know in my case.