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pmokeefe
07-30-2021, 04:15 PM
There's a new sample on Yfull, the most distant ancestor known was born in Palermo, Sicily ~1854.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-FGC36845/
The other 3 samples in L-PAGE116, the immediate haplogroup, are Balkan and Poland; the TMRCA is 375 years.

Curious haplogroup!

Comments, pointers to other resources much appreciated.

Artmar
08-01-2021, 10:55 AM
Maybe it is a Jewish subbranch of L? Distribution + low TMRCA kinda suggests it. I don't know the details on samples though.

pmokeefe
08-01-2021, 01:18 PM
Maybe it is a Jewish subbranch of L? Distribution + low TMRCA kinda suggests it. I don't know the details on samples though.
Thanks, that's a hypothesis worth considering. I also happen to have access to the Ancestry DNA results for the Sicilian sample. The grandfather of the individual as well as both the grandfather's parents were born in Sicily. However the ethnicity breakdown is only 5% Southern Italy while it is 7% Balkans. The grandfather's family is Catholic, as far back as I have records, but of course that does not exclude a Jewish connection.

Given the grandfather's family tree I would have expected 25% S. Italy, but he only has 5%. Is it typical that Sicilians get results like these on Ancestry DNA?

leorcooper19
08-01-2021, 01:19 PM
Maybe it is a Jewish subbranch of L? Distribution + low TMRCA kinda suggests it. I don't know the details on samples though.

Indeed it is! There are actually also Sephardim (forget from where rn) and Mizrachim (Iraqi Jews) as well as Iraqi Karaites in L-PAGE116. A Sicilian, given the context, implies either Sephardi converso or older Italian Jewish/North African Jewish roots.

pmokeefe
08-01-2021, 03:03 PM
Indeed it is! There are actually also Sephardim (forget from where rn) and Mizrachim (Iraqi Jews) as well as Iraqi Karaites in L-PAGE116. A Sicilian, given the context, implies either Sephardi converso or older Italian Jewish/North African Jewish roots.
Links to more information on L-PAGE116 would be highly appreciated!

leorcooper19
08-01-2021, 03:51 PM
Links to more information on L-PAGE116 would be highly appreciated!

Here's Wim Penninx's entry on L-PAGE116 (called AB-063): https://jewishdna.net/AB-063.html

You can see on the data page here (https://jewishdna.net/AB-063-dataFTDNA.html) there are Ashkenazi, Iraqi Karaites, and Caraco is the Sephardi from Turkey. The Afghan, Lebanese, and Pakistani haplotypes seem more distantly related.

pmokeefe
08-01-2021, 04:23 PM
Here's Wim Penninx's entry on L-PAGE116 (called AB-063): https://jewishdna.net/AB-063.html

You can see on the data page here (https://jewishdna.net/AB-063-dataFTDNA.html) there are Ashkenazi, Iraqi Karaites, and Caraco is the Sephardi from Turkey. The Afghan, Lebanese, and Pakistani haplotypes seem more distantly related.

Thanks, much appreciated!

This individual has a 40X WGS test. Are there are any autosomal analysis that could clarify his possible Jewish genetics?

leorcooper19
08-01-2021, 04:30 PM
This individual has a 40X WGS test. Are there are any autosomal analysis that could clarify his possible Jewish genetics?

Given they are only 1/4 Sicilian, and Sicilians themselves are quite similar to the standard Western Jewish profile, I don't think standard autosomal analyses would be effective. Probably the only method that'd work would be IBD segment tracking between him and Jews. Even so, his most recent fully "Jewish" ancestor probably lived at least 500 years ago, so there may be no segments shared.


Given the grandfather's family tree I would have expected 25% S. Italy, but he only has 5%. Is it typical that Sicilians get results like these on Ancestry DNA?

A friend of mine is 1/4 Sicilian and 3/4 NW European. On AncestryDNA, he only gets 7% Southern Italy, with the rest of his 1/4 being in Northern Italy and Balkans.