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lgmayka
04-25-2014, 11:16 PM
I did my best to compare the Novel Variants of the 8 N-L1025 Big Y results in my project: kits 174607, B2967, N11423, N58382, 175141, N101084, 133144, and 119958. I have the devastating disadvantage of no access to a YFull interpretation for any of these.

Nevertheless, one pattern was obvious: shared SNPs among N11423, N58382, and N101084--the kits that have 24 (instead of 22) at DYS413b.

14920763
16861269
22977344
23830333
25047772 (noisy, according to my own I2a YFull)
25999090
26237856

A second, somewhat less reliable pattern is that of shared SNPs between 174607 and B2967. Note that Thomas Krahn considers any SNP in the 222-226 range to be "problematic."

8514346 (M2014)
16692095 (noisy, but can use primers for V45)
22477884 (noisy)
22477925

I simply cannot go further without at least indirect access to the YFull interpretation of an N-L1025. YFull can verify that an individual is truly ancestral at a given location--indicating that those who are derived have a genuinely useful SNP. So for example, to verify that M2014 is genuinely useful, I would need an N-L1025 (other than 174607 or B2967) to check that he is truly ancestral (i.e., very low probability of derived) at 8514346.

lgmayka
05-16-2014, 03:06 AM
A kind soul gave me access to a YFull analysis of one of these N-L1025 BAM files. I now see only two reliable relationships, as shown below. Reqd indicates that I have requested an individual SNP test from FTDNA.

Kits N11423, N58382, and N101084 (the kits with DYS413b=24) tested positive for these 6 SNPs. Others tested negative.
14920763 C > T Z16974
16861269 T > G Z16975 Reqd
22977344 G > A Z16976
23830333 C > G Z16977
25999090 G > A Z16978
26237856 G > T Z16979

Kits B2967 and 175141 tested positive for these two SNPs. Others tested negative.
23386291 T > C Z16980
23815649 C > G Z16981 Reqd

It would be useful to have one more YFull analysis of an L1025 kit.

lgmayka
05-21-2014, 07:44 PM
Kits N11423, N58382, and N101084 (the kits with DYS413b=24) tested positive for these 6 SNPs. Others tested negative.
14920763 C > T Z16974
16861269 T > G Z16975 Reqd
22977344 G > A Z16976
23830333 C > G Z16977
25999090 G > A Z16978
26237856 G > T Z16979
16861269 (T>G) is now available as an individual SNP test from FTDNA. Due to my mistake, though, the Advanced menu calls it LGM2.


Kits B2967 and 175141 tested positive for these two SNPs. Others tested negative.
23386291 T > C Z16980
23815649 C > G Z16981 Reqd

Kit N6569 also has these two SNPs.

Moreover, N6569 and B2967 share these novel variants. Others do not list them.

7411987 - Z17078
17299529 - Z17079, requested from FTDNA, should be able to use primers for L1189
17882269- Z17080
21312826 - Z17081
22459893 - Z17082 (region is allegedly noisy)

According to a post in another forum, kit 149750 (to which I do not have access) also has these five.

lgmayka
06-29-2014, 03:01 PM
YFull's new haplotree for N-L1025 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L1025/) shows some new structure.

- CTS8173 is shared by entries YF01792 and YF01751. We need to know the STR haplotypes (e.g., kit numbers) of these two.

- Z4869 is shared by N-L551 and YF01488. We need to know the STR haplotype of YF01488.

I have asked FTDNA to provide individual SNP tests for CTS8173 and Z4869.

lgmayka
07-03-2014, 07:27 PM
YFull's new haplotree for N-L1025 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L1025/) shows some new structure.

- CTS8173 is shared by entries YF01792 and YF01751. We need to know the STR haplotypes (e.g., kit numbers) of these two.

- Z4869 is shared by N-L551 and YF01488. We need to know the STR haplotype of YF01488.
The pair of CTS8173+ entries are kits 175141 and N6569. These two were already known to share Z16981.

The Z4869+ L551- entry is kit N58382.

lgmayka
07-08-2014, 09:33 AM
The pair of CTS8173+ entries are kits 175141 and N6569. These two were already known to share Z16981.
Z16981 is now available for order from FTDNA.

Lamborn
07-15-2014, 08:39 PM
I should have posted my YF01738, f174607 as an update to your Big Y N-L1025 thread.

lgmayka
07-18-2014, 12:50 AM
YFull's latest haplotree for N-L1025 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L1025/) exhibits some interesting new structure.

Y4755 = Z16980 (23386291 T > C)
Y4756 = Z16981 (23815649 C > G)
Y4706 = (15610361 T > C)
Y4702 = (9460967 G > something)
Y4704 = (17598779 C > something)
Y4707 = (16175412 C > something)
Y4708 = (19494388 C > something)
Y4711 = (14828233 C > something)
Y4712 = (15055448 G > something)
Y4713 = (17757862 C > something)
Y4703 = (14247678 T > something)
Y4705 = (18386356 C > something)
Y4709 = (14407264 C > something)
Y4710 = (21649141 C > something)

Z16981 is already individually testable at FTDNA. I have requested FTDNA to offer a test for Y4706.

lgmayka
08-09-2014, 02:14 AM
The pair of CTS8173+ entries are kits 175141 and N6569. These two were already known to share Z16981.

CTS8173 is now available for individual SNP test order from FTDNA. YFull's haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L1025/), based on a very small number of samples, shows CTS8173 to be at the same level as Z16981 (Y4756).

lgmayka
08-11-2014, 02:36 PM
- Z4869 is shared by N-L551 and YF01488.
YFull has now decided that Z4869 is too unstable for practical use:
---
SNP Z4869 I removed from the tree, as unstable.
Z4869 is contrary to the existing structure and positive in several other haplogroups.
---

Similarly, Yseq declined to offer a test for Z4869:
---
Z4869: 100.0% identical to ChrY:6264802..6265802
---

lgmayka
08-11-2014, 02:59 PM
Z16981 is now available for order from FTDNA.
Interestingly, Yseq declined to offer a test for this SNP:
---
Z16981: 97.6% similar to ChrY:9049903..9050903
---

Instead, they offer a test for Z16980 (http://shop.yseq.net/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=z16980&search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0) (= Y4755), which so far is equivalent to Z16981 (= Y4756).

Besides Z16981, FTDNA offers a SNP test for CTS8173, which so far is also equivalent to Z16980 and Z16981.

lgmayka
08-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Moreover, N6569 and B2967 share these novel variants. Others do not list them.

7411987 - Z17078
17299529 - Z17079, requested from FTDNA, should be able to use primers for L1189
17882269- Z17080
21312826 - Z17081

According to a post in another forum, kit 149750 (to which I do not have access) also has these five.
Yseq already offers a test for Z17079 (http://shop.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=4323).

lgmayka
08-26-2014, 07:30 PM
Kit 305722, who previously tested L1027+ , received his Big Y results recently. He shows one of the SNPs previously shared only by the two N-L591 Big Y customers:

22689012 A > G

The implication is that L591 and L1027 are more closely related to each other than to other branches of L1025. I suspected this based on Y-STR haplotypes.

YFull still has to run its complete professional analysis; but in the meantime, I have named this SNP Z17902. Yseq already offers a test for it (http://shop.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=4446). I have asked FTDNA to offer a similar test.

The purpose of the test is not so much for those who are already L591+ or L1027+ , but rather for any man who has already tested L591- L1027- but whose haplotype is close to those subclades.

lgmayka
08-27-2014, 02:16 PM
FTDNA is apparently in the middle of migrating LGM2 to its correct public name, Z16975. Existing test orders and results already have the new name; but we still need the new name added to the Advanced menu for new orders. (At this moment, this SNP test cannot be ordered under either its old or its new name. I have reminded FTDNA to correct this.)

lgmayka
09-05-2014, 12:16 AM
FTDNA is apparently in the middle of migrating LGM2 to its correct public name, Z16975. Existing test orders and results already have the new name; but we still need the new name added to the Advanced menu for new orders.
Z16975 is now orderable.

Lamborn
09-13-2014, 05:23 AM
My L1025 YFULL based tree suggests that the tree divides into two parts immediately below L1025. The larger group is identified by SNP's M2782,M2783,M2784. It includes N6569,175141,N81921,133144,N58382. The remaining kits have Y4706 as their first SNP. It includes:
Y4706* =174607
Y4706>Y4702= 149374
Y4706>Y4702>Y4703= 113355,102351,262236?

lgmayka
09-13-2014, 01:58 PM
FTDNA now offers individual SNP tests for the two known branches of N-L1025:

M2783 - South Baltic
Y4706 - Fennoscandian

FTDNA also now offers a test for Z16980, equivalent (so far) to Z16981 and CTS8173.

Consult YFull's haplotree for N-L1025 (http://yfull.com/tree/N-L1025/).

Lamborn
11-29-2014, 10:48 PM
I am Y4706+, Y4702-. I have also asked YSEQ to prepare primers for 12 novel variant SNP's below Y4706 and had Arne Larsson f312481, who tested GD=1 from me at 37 STR., also tested positive for 10 of these. They are:
A703 7411305-
A704 9420993+
A705 14640101+
A706 15979950+
A707 17705095+
A708 18073057+
A709 23767071+
A710 7354602+
A711 8464879+
A916 16349446-
A917 17570438+
A918 22091940+

Others who also test Y4706+, Y4702- or are Y4706* on the Big Y might be interested in testing some of these.