View Full Version : Skipped Over on FTDNA's New Tree

04-25-2014, 11:16 PM
So as I know some of you have already seen, Z251 was not included on Family Tree DNA's new Haplotree. I would think this is a big missed opportunity for us, especially with their current sale on single SNPs when some previous R-L21* guys try investigate further than their Deep Clade test. Unless they read more than just FTDNA information, those folks won't even know to try Z251. I have read that Family Tree will be updating the tree more frequently, but does anyone know how getting Z251 added could be expedited?? Is there a certain person with some pull that we would have to beg nicely??


04-26-2014, 03:21 PM
I think getting ftdna to become practical is almost a lost cause. I am in the process of asking our surname group administrators to advise against ordering anything based on the useless tree and ordering the Z251 directly either from ftdna or preferably from YSEQ.net. I do notice that YSEQ doesn't have a primer for Z251 yet but it will only add a buck to the purchase price of the first one who orders it. I would advise all other Z251+ folks to contact their groups also to warn against using the ftdna "shrub".

04-26-2014, 04:56 PM
I'm not paying much attention to the new tree. It doesn't help me. I'm listed as L21 now even though I know I am L21>DF13>S11556>S9294>[a whole bunch of other stuff>L583. I would hope that project admins protect against possible erroneous orders based on the tree and the encouragement of SNP ordering. S9294 is available now from YSEQ for $25, but makes sense to test Z251 first.

04-26-2014, 10:09 PM
I agree that anyone with knowledge on the subject could care less about their tree, but because FTDNA is the entry path into genetic genealogy for a large number of people, it is a huge missed opportunity to have Z251 missing. Lots of people joined the R-L21 group and got interested in the subject because FT's Deep Clade test put them there. Without Z251 (and below), those same people won't know to look for the Z251 or S11556 project in the future. The more up-to-date that tree is, the more data we will have to solve your "[a whole bunch of other stuff]" statement, so I think it is worth while to at least see if there is any way we can put a bug in someones ear. If enough people express their dissatisfaction and convey that they are going elsewhere, pressure will be put on the next update to create a valuable tree.

04-26-2014, 11:44 PM
Cory I agree that ftdna SHOULD update the tree to the current stage of knowledge but for whatever reason it suits their purpose not to do it. Lots of other people are upset with their "stuck on stupid" attitude also. Since they don't respond to reason I will resort to ridicule. Henceforth in all my comment on this matter I will always refer to it as the "2014 Y-DNA Haploshrub by ftdna". Ridicule may not work but at least it is a more accurate descriptive term.

04-27-2014, 12:06 AM
I guess I would go a little easy on them if you can, at least in your posts here. I wouldn't want you to get a warning or suspension from one of the forum administrators for insensitivity. On a happier note, I can now successfully read my BAM file from FGC on my laptop, so I can take my mind off of the tree. Perhaps I will send a nice note to FTDNA to see if we can get Z251 put on for the next iteration.

04-27-2014, 03:03 AM
I guess I was thinking of numerous "Hey, I'm quite disappointed." comments to their Facebook page or email inbox. And like you said seferhabahir, I don't think we should be mean, just point out that we're not happy. I have my fingers crossed that they will see how many people feel they dropped the ball on this one and make a point to do better in the future, and that will be sooner than later. Thats also why I was hoping some folks that are well respected in the community could echo this and add "Did not put Z251 on the tree." into their list of oversights. What I hope doesn't happen is that everyone just says, we have the draft tree maintained by the R-L21 experts, which is awesome, so it doesn't matter what their tree says. Then they may never get the push to make it better.

I've tried to communicate some of this info to each of the surname projects I am involved with and I hope others are doing the same, but I am quite afraid that most FTDNA customers won't get that info and some will be wasting money on inappropriate SNPs. Whatever happens, we still are getting a lot of new info and its a fun time. Take care guys.


04-27-2014, 09:00 AM
Well one good thing that's come of this is it motivated me to get off my bum and update the DF49 project.


It's not much but at least it gives people an idea of the emerging structure under DF49, unlike FTDNA's haplotree !!