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kdm1984
10-16-2021, 03:37 PM
Hi, I learned today from 23andMe that a grandson of my mother's father has this haplogroup. My mom passed in 2018 and always wanted to learn more about her father's origins. They were Volga Germans who came to the United States in the early 1900s. It seems this haplogroup is more commonly found in Southeastern Europe however? Mom and her paternal relatives have between 80-90% German ancestry with typically about 10% Southeastern European ancestry. I'm wondering about how this haplogroup came to be found in German populations.

karwiso
10-16-2021, 06:00 PM
The tree for this subgroup you can find here at YFull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/
Estimated to be around 2200 years old - se countries' flags in the tree.
If you want to research your ancestry deeper then the grandson of your mother's father needs to do a more advanced test at BigY 700 at FamilyTreeDNA or whole genome at Nebula and submit it to YFull.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438 :


I2a-L621
The approximate frequency and variance distribution of haplogroup I-P37 clusters, ancestral "Dnieper-Carpathian" (DYS448=20) and derived "Balkan" (DYS448=19: represented by a single SNP I-PH908), in Eastern Europe per O.M. Utevska (2017).

I2a1a2b-L621 is typical of the South Slavic populations of Southeastern Europe, being highest in Bosnia-Herzegovina (>50%) in Bosniaks, Croats, and Serbs,[3] because of which is often called "Dinaric".[13] It has the highest variance and also high concentration in Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Southeastern Poland, Belarus).[14] According to YFull YTree it formed 11,400 YBP and had TMRCA 6,500 YBP, while its main subclades lineage is I-CTS10936 (6,500-5,600 YBP) > I-S19848 (5,600 YBP) > I-CTS4002 (5,600-5,100 YBP) > I-CTS10228 (5,100-3,400 YBP) > I-Y3120 (3,400-2,100 YBP) > I-Y18331 (2,100 YBP) / I-Z17855 (2,100-1650 YBP) / I-Y4460 (2,100 YBP) / I-S17250 (2,100-1,850 YBP) > I-PH908 (1,850-1,700 YBP).[15]


The earliest archeogenetic sample until now is Sungir 6 (~900 YBP) near Vladimir, Russia which belonged to the I-S17250 > I-Y5596 > I-Z16971 > I-Y5595 > I-A16681 subclade,[27][28] as well I-CTS10228 and I-Y3120 subclades were found in two Viking samples from Sweden (VK53) and Ukraine (VK542) with predominantly Slavic ancestry of which the second belongs to Gleb Svyatoslavich (11th century).[29]


See this discussion too: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?17751-Origins-of-I2a1b

vasil
10-16-2021, 06:34 PM
Hi, I learned today from 23andMe that a grandson of my mother's father has this haplogroup. My mom passed in 2018 and always wanted to learn more about her father's origins. They were Volga Germans who came to the United States in the early 1900s. It seems this haplogroup is more commonly found in Southeastern Europe however? Mom and her paternal relatives have between 80-90% German ancestry with typically about 10% Southeastern European ancestry. I'm wondering about how this haplogroup came to be found in German populations.

While S17250 is most common in the Western Balkans located in Southeastern Europe it didnt originate there but somewhere in the region where Poland, Ukraine and Belarus meet and then it spread all over the place with the Medieval Slavic expansion. Its source in Germany is Germanized West Slavic lines.

Edit: I missed you saying your ancestors were Volga Germans so in your case it could be either a Germanized West Slavic line moving east or it could be an East Slavic line that was absorbed later. I would recomend that your cousin do a full sequence if he wants to know more about his male line.

kdm1984
10-17-2021, 11:29 AM
Thanks!

Not sure if the cousin will do further research. I do know from my own research that the Volga Germans seldom intermarried, so in all likelihood, my mother's paternal line included Germanized West Slavs who moved east when Catherine the Great brought Germans to Russia in the 1700s.

Slimm623
10-21-2021, 07:57 PM
I have this haplogroup, more specifically I2a1b2a1a1a (I don't know the new label). My father's father was born in Magdeburg in 1900. Two other grandparents were also full Germans (from Hesse and Esslingen), and my mom's mom was from Poland, more specifically Suwalki, which is a historic Slav-Balt mixing ground. I test 38.6 Eastern Euro on 23 and 20 Eastern Euro + 15 Baltics on Ancestry, so either I inherited a lopsided amount from her or my extra Slav-Balt comes from him.

So my Y could be a north Slav ancestor from the last few hundred years or so, or I guess it could be from some guy in the Balkans from 10,000 years ago. A lot can happen in 10,000 years. It would be cool to know.