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View Full Version : Y-chromosomal haplogroups overview in mainland Portugal



Hrodric
11-25-2021, 06:37 PM
Based on the paper by Beleza et al. 2006, I prepared this map displaying the distributions of some of the major haplogroups in the regions of mainland Portugal. The results don't show anything much, perhaps because Portugal is either fairly homogeneous or because of the low number of samples. Nevertheless, I found it interesting to observe that haplogroup T defined by the M70 mutation has a higher prevalence in the North of Portugal.


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MAP PICTURE

RCO
11-25-2021, 07:53 PM
Now we can find the major lineages TMRCA, frequencies, distribution (high-coverage SNPs) in FTDNA and YFull.

Luso
11-25-2021, 08:21 PM
That T is similar to how G2a has a higher prevalence in North Portugal. Is it a line that survived in mountain areas?

It's interesting to see the difference between south and north haplogroups though :) having family exclusively from the south... They've always assumed we were different from northern people. Obviously we aren't very different though as studies show.

Ruderico
11-25-2021, 09:25 PM
That T is similar to how G2a has a higher prevalence in North Portugal. Is it a line that survived in mountain areas?

It's interesting to see the difference between south and north haplogroups though :) having family exclusively from the south... They've always assumed we were different from northern people. Obviously we aren't very different though as studies show.

T is extremely old, it could have arrived through multiple and distinct waves. Also keep in mind the study has a very low amount of samples from southern Portugal, for example Beja district has only 8, as does Santarém.
It was an interesting study back in 2006, but today it's very outdated.

ADW_1981
11-25-2021, 09:27 PM
That T is similar to how G2a has a higher prevalence in North Portugal. Is it a line that survived in mountain areas?

It's interesting to see the difference between south and north haplogroups though :) having family exclusively from the south... They've always assumed we were different from northern people. Obviously we aren't very different though as studies show.

Survived? Most of these haplos are post-Bronze Age based on the data we've seen. Is there a reason to suggest Portugal would be different from the rest of Iberia in ancient times?

Ruderico
11-25-2021, 09:33 PM
Survived? Most of these haplos are post-Bronze Age based on the data we've seen. Is there a reason to suggest Portugal would be different from the rest of Iberia in ancient times?

Not really, at best it arrived by late IA. More likely it arrived during the Roman era or post-Roman/early Middle Ages.

Luso
11-25-2021, 09:37 PM
Survived? Most of these haplos are post-Bronze Age based on the data we've seen. Is there a reason to suggest Portugal would be different from the rest of Iberia in ancient times?

I mean particularly with the one my Uncle has... It's musta survived as it's pretty young compared to most other g's. But yes you're right that most are older and yes the T is very old so it's not very comparsble. My bad. I'm very much a beginner when it comes to all this information.

Hrodric
11-25-2021, 10:41 PM
T is extremely old, it could have arrived through multiple and distinct waves. Also keep in mind the study has a very low amount of samples from southern Portugal, for example Beja district has only 8, as does Santarém.
It was an interesting study back in 2006, but today it's very outdated.

To be honest I think that only the Northwest region is well covered (and maybe Beira Litoral)... the rest has very few samples that unfortunately don't let us draw much insight... in fact, I didn't even include Algarve because it has only 21 samples. However, I think that having a total of 657 samples spread all over the country gives us an idea of the Y-chromosomal landscape in Portugal. Let's wait (sat down) for NGS to get commonplace in Portuguese labs for further detailed studies.

Ruderico
11-25-2021, 10:51 PM
To be honest I think that only the Northwest region is well covered (and maybe Beira Litoral)... the rest has very few samples that unfortunately don't let us draw much insight... in fact, I didn't even include Algarve because it has only 21 samples. However, I think that having a total of 657 samples spread all over the country gives us an idea of the Y-chromosomal landscape in Portugal. Let's wait (sat down) for NGS to get commonplace in Portuguese labs for further detailed studies.

We can get a lot more, and better, info looking at yfull or FTDNA data since you can add a sample's ancestral location. If I had been sampled here my data would have been assigned to Lisbon, or at best Viseu where my father was born..however my paternal line is originally from Viana do Castelo (Valença). On the flip side it'd be a herculean effort to work so much data.

Hrodric
11-25-2021, 11:14 PM
We can get a lot more, and better, info looking at yfull or FTDNA data since you can add a sample's ancestral location. If I had been sampled here my data would have been assigned to Lisbon, or at best Viseu where my father was born..however my paternal line is originally from Viana do Castelo (Valença). On the flip side it'd be a herculean effort to work so much data.

Usually in these studies the birthplaces of the father and paternal grandfather are asked, so this is not a big problem. I agree with you, we can get a lot more data from FTDNA and Yfull... unfortunately we Portuguese are poor and only a few people do these tests (I hope in the future to be included in Yfull, but it's still not a priority lol)

Ruderico
11-25-2021, 11:24 PM
Usually in these studies the birthplaces of the father and paternal grandfather are asked, so this is not a big problem. I agree with you, we can get a lot more data from FTDNA and Yfull... unfortunately we Portuguese are poor and only a few people do these tests (I hope in the future to be included in Yfull, but it's still not a priority lol)

Sometimes..there was a French study published a couple of years ago that had no genealogical data at all, yet it was very frequently cited despite a few individuals being clearly non-French (edit: at least partially). I don't know whether Beleza did genealogical background check or not, however 2 generations is way too little anyway, particularly for people who have roots near very large cities such as Lisbon, Porto, Coimbra, etc. As an example none of my parent's paternal origins are anywhere near where they were born - my father is from Mangualde, with paternal roots in Valença, my mother is from Gondomar, her paternal roots are in S. João da Pesqueira.

yfull is a godsend, I always recommend uploading their data there. I had two guys from my terminal clade there, but both removed their kits. Words cannot express my disappointment and frustration.

Luso
11-25-2021, 11:51 PM
We can get a lot more, and better, info looking at yfull or FTDNA data since you can add a sample's ancestral location. If I had been sampled here my data would have been assigned to Lisbon, or at best Viseu where my father was born..however my paternal line is originally from Viana do Castelo (Valença). On the flip side it'd be a herculean effort to work so much data.

I will make an effort to get some more family members and extended cousins tested to better sample the Algarve with G25 and other forms of data, at least for Silves and Ferragudo. But im not sure how much itll work… seems the southern parts are too poor to get a good amount of samples. Trying to help as much as i can, but also hoping more samples are added from professional studies.

Ruderico
11-26-2021, 12:32 AM
I will make an effort to get some more family members and extended cousins tested to better sample the Algarve with G25 and other forms of data, at least for Silves and Ferragudo. But im not sure how much itll work… seems the southern parts are too poor to get a good amount of samples. Trying to help as much as i can, but also hoping more samples are added from professional studies.

In the end we'll just have to wait for newer studies, or let people test themselves, we need a lot samples in order for data to have statistical significance. Unfortunately many Portuguese samples in yfull are actually from Americans who are overwhelmingly from the islands (Azores)...

RCO
11-26-2021, 12:39 AM
Some questions, people have been testing "simple" at-genetic tests with general Y and mt chips in the last years, but we need more detailed high coverage tests like Big Y and we need FTDNA and YFull to compare full Y/mt results. Traditional genealogists and people with presumed Medieval genealogies from the (former or ancient) nobility have not built a proper historical database, that's an Iberian problem, we understand some genealogists can be afraid of the genetic results in presumed old lineages and we don't have medieval cousins with presumed conventional written/formal genealogies. Of course we already have a general sampling of the Portuguese lineages and we are beginning to understand the Y-DNA and mtDNA ancestral nodes in Portugal, when lineages expanded or bottlenecked, where are they from via international matches and when they arrived in Western Iberia. Portugal had a core Northern area, a moving frontier and a big Empire, the proportion of the Portuguese Empire - Brazil to Portugal is unique in the world, far bigger than Spain and Britain X colonies (and they had different ethnicities and languages) so we can have more resources because people can test more in different places in the future.