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The_Lyonnist
12-06-2021, 09:32 PM
Looking at this map, I find that the spread in Turkey looks like the borders of the Hittite Empire. What do you think about it?

47685

Abyss
01-12-2022, 06:39 PM
There's known sample of G-M406 before the Hittite arise as a civilisation in Anatolia, the best hypothesis if that there were M406 in the Hatti people that were later incorporated in the entite empire. Hittites have make the former capital of the Hatti their capital (Hattusha), they have incorporated some of their Gods in their panteon

paradinet
02-04-2022, 03:16 PM
Looking at this map, I find that the spread in Turkey looks like the borders of the Hittite Empire. What do you think about it?

@The_Lyonnist, Great observation.


There's known sample of G-M406 before the Hittite arise as a civilisation in Anatolia, the best hypothesis if that there were M406 in the Hatti people that were later incorporated in the entite empire. Hittites have make the former capital of the Hatti their capital (Hattusha), they have incorporated some of their Gods in their panteon

@Abyss, that is clearly what the evidence shows! The implications of this are perhaps even more exciting.

M406's sister clades (PF3147, P303, PF3359) are famously associated with the First Farmers in Anatolia (Boncuklu, Çatalhöyük, etc.) and have been found in aDNA in Neolithic Europe. But thus far, no M406 aDNA samples have been found in the Anatolian settlements associated with the First Farmers or in Neolithic Europe. Some speculate, and I agree that these groups lived together in Northern Syria for a time before M406 likely went north into Central Anatolia and the rest spread into Southwestern Anatolia. This split would have been during a time when the groups were transitioning from proto-farming and husbandry practices into much more sedentary communities. M406 likely continued semi-sedentary practices in the Central Anatolian forests, while its sister clades exploded into Europe.

Some have speculated M406 as a whole may have been spread along the Mediterranean via the Cardium Pottery/Impressed Ware Cultures due to the frequency of M406 along the Mediterranean. However, many M406 clades on YFULL have Late Chalcolithic/Bronze Age splits with Anatolians(Armenians/Pontic Greeks/Turks w/native male lines) from about 4,000-2,000 years ago, some even later occurring in the Iron Age or during Imperial Roman Era. This indicates that the dispersal of M406 from Anatolia occurred because of a changing world after the Bronze Age collapse, Iron Age colonization (Phoenicians/Greeks), Roman maritime trade/slavery practices/military recruitment, Byzantine occupation and trade, as well as diasporas out of Anatolia over the centuries.

The best evidence for the connection between the M406 link to the Hattic peoples and Kaska are the actual Chalcolithic/Bronze Age ancient DNA finds from Central Anatolia (including very close to Hattusa itself) accompanied by the frequency of modern descendants found in the same region of Anatolia. I have compiled a website as a resource for my own subclade of M406, G-M3302. Still the implications for G-M3302 are very similar to most G-M406. Feel free to check it out as I go into much more detail about G-M406's connections to the Hattic peoples and later as they are absorbed and likely spread by Hittites prior to the Bronze Age Collapse.

https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/g-m3302/ (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/g-m3302/)

An G-M406 look at Genomic History of Neolithic to Bronze Age Anatolia, Northern Levant, and Southern Caucasus.
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/genomic-history-of (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/genomic-history-of)

M406 Samples of Interest
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/m406-samples-of-interest (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/m406-samples-of-interest)

CBT-14: Camlibel Tarlasi, Anatolia (Near Hattusa)
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/cbt-14-camlibel-tarlasi (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/cbt-14-camlibel-tarlasi)

SFI-15: Beirut, Lebanon
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/sfi-15-beirut-lebanon (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/sfi-15-beirut-lebanon)

F4_1: Young Fuller of Rome (Child of Egyptian Immigrants)
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/f4_1-young-fuller-of-rome (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/ancient-ydna/f4_1-young-fuller-of-rome)

TIMELINE OVERVIEW
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/ (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/)

Paleolithic G
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/paleolithic/ (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/paleolithic/)

Neolithic G
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/neolithic/ (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/neolithic/)

Bronze Age G-M406
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/bronze-age/ (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/timeline/bronze-age/)

Iron Age
Coming soon!

SUBJECTS of INTEREST
The Royal Graves of Alacahoyuk
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/alaca-h%C3%B6y%C3%BCk (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/alaca-h%C3%B6y%C3%BCk)

M406 Frequency
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/m406-frequency (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/what-about-rootsi)

What About Rootsi?
https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/what-about-rootsi (https://sites.google.com/view/gm3302/maps-trees-charts/what-about-rootsi)

Mithridates VI Eupator
05-29-2022, 11:12 AM
My clade is G-L30 and probably G-M406(There was too much SNP in cladefinder but there is no positive or negative calls) I'm from mountainous region of Kastamonu just little northwest of Hittite capital and little west of Hatti Storm God cult area. There is variety in G2a in Turkey even there is people who in same subclade with Ötzi in our region. So what I understand M406 is a clade who had stayed in Anatolia during their relatives mass migrating to Europe?

peloponnesian
05-29-2022, 11:23 AM
So what I understand M406 is a clade who had stayed in Anatolia during their relatives mass migrating to Europe?

In ancient DNA M406 starts appearing in Europe with Imperial Roman samples. But of course other branches that were present in the European Neolithic still existed in Anatolia. And needless to say that some M406 individuals could've moved to places like Greece, Sicily or Sardinia with earlier movements, such as Minoan-related migrations or the mysterious group(s) that brought Iranian Neolithic ancestry.

Mithridates VI Eupator
05-29-2022, 11:38 AM
In ancient DNA M406 starts appearing in Europe with Imperial Roman samples. But of course other branches that were present in the European Neolithic still existed in Anatolia. And needless to say that some M406 individuals could've moved to places like Greece, Sicily or Sardinia with earlier movements, such as Minoan-related migrations or the mysterious group(s) that brought Iranian Neolithic ancestry.

Do we understand something from bulk of SNP? Is there a way to figure out the most likely subclade with non-responding SNPs? For example while two lines of SNPs appear in one subclade 8-9 lines of SNPs appear in another sub-branch. Does it has to give an affirmative answer to talk about probability? Maybe I'm G-CTS2488 I would like to do WGS or Big Y but if I be sure to find something decent. Saw someone done Big Y who just had only weird numbers and letters. :D

I have less steppe ancestry than regular Anatolian Turk plus I have significant amount(for Asia Minor) of NW African component and little more Neolithic Farmer ancestry than average Turks which shows close to Southern Italians and Dodecanese Greeks in its distance list.

Kanenas
05-29-2022, 01:42 PM
First of all, don't trust Maciamo's maps because they are based on guesswork and made up data (the details at least but often not only the details).

lehmannt
05-29-2022, 02:10 PM
49795

I don't know how up to date this map is, but its creator claims his method is based on YFull samples as well as additional ancient samples: https://phylogeographer.com/scripts/heatmap.php

peloponnesian
05-29-2022, 05:35 PM
Do we understand something from bulk of SNP? Is there a way to figure out the most likely subclade with non-responding SNPs? For example while two lines of SNPs appear in one subclade 8-9 lines of SNPs appear in another sub-branch. Does it has to give an affirmative answer to talk about probability? Maybe I'm G-CTS2488 I would like to do WGS or Big Y but if I be sure to find something decent. Saw someone done Big Y who just had only weird numbers and letters. :D

Can you use this tool https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and post a screenshot of the results it gives you?


I have less steppe ancestry than regular Anatolian Turk plus I have significant amount(for Asia Minor) of NW African component and little more Neolithic Farmer ancestry than average Turks which shows close to Southern Italians and Dodecanese Greeks in its distance list.

In many cases one person's autosomal results are irrelevant to their Y DNA. Autosomal DNA changes rapidly from generation to generation due to recombination, whereas you don't lose any mutations on the Y chromosome.

Mithridates VI Eupator
05-29-2022, 08:35 PM
What I'm trying to say is, does it make sense that while the paternal lineage survived all these years one of its components remained in a traceable amount?

49799

There is few subclade that call negatively and others no recall. I understand that I have common SNPs in many subclades. Some branches have a lot more code. Does it make sense?

peloponnesian
05-30-2022, 05:57 AM
What I'm trying to say is, does it make sense that while the paternal lineage survived all these years one of its components remained in a traceable amount?

Not sure what you mean :confused: Your paternal lineage is defined by a series of mutations on the Y chromosome, if that's what you mean by components.



49799

There is few subclade that call negatively and others no recall. I understand that I have common SNPs in many subclades. Some branches have a lot more code. Does it make sense?

So you're definitely not P303, you're probably M406 but the DNA company you tested with doesn't test any of the SNPs for the M406 branch. The cladefinder tool can only check SNPs that are tested. If you want to learn your terminal branch you can take a WGS test or FTDNA Big Y.