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avvaiyar
05-12-2022, 04:44 PM
I recently did revisit an old blog post on indigenous Onge people of Andaman Islands. The author examines plausibility of Onge being isolated people since their exit from Africa and their arrival in Asia-pacific i.e roughly 40kya. He, however, showed such scenario appear to be less likely the case. He then argues there could very well be an early Holocene era contact with Andaman from outside.

You can read his post here : The Onge versus other Indian & SE Asian ASI proxies (https://eurasiandna.com/the-paradoxical-onge/)

I was eyeballing Kale's D stats from his database, what strikes me is following D-stats,


Gorilla Onge Australian Papuan 0.0046 1.293 329240
Gorilla Onge Cambodian Australian -0.0361 -8.478 329240
Gorilla Onge Cambodian Japanese 0.0001 0.076 329241
Gorilla Onge Han Australian -0.0352 -8.354 329240


The attraction could be either Hoabinhian related ancestry in modern East Asian or Onge having recent East Asian ancestry as suggested by the blog author. Anyone with their contribution will be very helpful.

Megalophias
05-12-2022, 04:49 PM
Lack of Denisovan?

Kale
05-12-2022, 04:50 PM
Those stats are just because Australian and Papuan have extra Denisovan ancestry.

avvaiyar
05-12-2022, 04:55 PM
Those stats are just because Australian and Papuan have extra Denisovan ancestry.

What do you think of the blog post I linked? Do you think Onge can be admixed recently? If so, do you have any stats readily that shows that?

okarinaofsteiner
05-16-2022, 10:10 PM
What do you think of the blog post I linked? Do you think Onge can be admixed recently? If so, do you have any stats readily that shows that?

I remember seeing on Anthrogenica that Onge are descended from/most closely related to Mainland SEA hunter-gatherers. Wouldn't be too surprised if they're a more diverged group that's admixed with a Hoabinhian like population from only a few thousand years ago.

It's pretty obvious at this point that they aren't very closely related to AASI at all.

eurasiadna
05-16-2022, 11:39 PM
My own understanding of human history from ancient DNA analysis is that humans likely spread out form India.

In this scenario, Papuan and Australian make the best 'outgroups' for genetic analysis, because all West, North and East Eurasians separated out from India in one direction (North) while Papuans and Australians are the earliest and most diverged group to have separated out, going South East.

Hence, Papuans and Australians are far more distant to all North, West and East Eurasians than ONG, who are closer to South Asians hence closer to the former. See fsats attached.

49607

Note the massive Z-scores with the Africans Mbuti and Yoruba, who are much closer to ONG than Australian.

avvaiyar
05-17-2022, 02:21 PM
I remember seeing on Anthrogenica that Onge are descended from/most closely related to Mainland SEA hunter-gatherers. Wouldn't be too surprised if they're a more diverged group that's admixed with a Hoabinhian like population from only a few thousand years ago.

It's pretty obvious at this point that they aren't very closely related to AASI at all.

Quite possible that Onge might had recent Hoabinhian related ancestry given how much drift they share with latter in formal stats.

Anyway what people here think of relationship between south Eurasian foragers and northern Eurasian IUP foragers ? It has been suggested these are two different and unrelated migrations. For example, look at this map below which posits two different place of origin and time for these two migration events :


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS92m-vUcAIYIqb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Given that we have somewhat earlier evidence for presence of Humans in Sundaland and Sri Lanka from 48 kya which almost sync with spread of IUP techno-complex sites to Altai [47-45 kya] and subsequent spread to China proper [42-40 kya] from west, and fact that southern Eurasians lack Altai Denisovian [D0] admixture that Tianyuan, Salkhit and Yana have, it won't be reasonable to say that groups like Austro-Melanasians are descended from them.

And also, can Kale or someone check if Austro-Melanesian people share any specific drift with Bacho Kiro IUP against groups like ZlantyKun, Ust-Ishmin, Oase1 and early Aurignacians ?


When did Homo sapiens first reach Southeast Asia and Sahul?
(https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1808385115)
Discovery of oldest bow and arrow technology in Eurasia (https://phys.org/news/2020-06-discovery-oldest-arrow-technology-eurasia.html)

Eurasia
05-23-2022, 09:27 AM
Where's the evidence of Tianyuan and Salkhit having "D0"?
"D0" is usually refered to the Denisovan introgression which contains the Tibetan EPAS1.



Given that we have somewhat earlier evidence for presence of Humans in Sundaland and Sri Lanka from 48 kya which almost sync with spread of IUP techno-complex sites to Altai [47-45 kya] and subsequent spread to China proper [42-40 kya] from west, and fact that southern Eurasians lack Altai Denisovian [D0] admixture that Tianyuan, Salkhit and Yana have, it won't be reasonable to say that groups like Austro-Melanasians are descended from them.

And also, can Kale or someone check if Austro-Melanesian people share any specific drift with Bacho Kiro IUP against groups like ZlantyKun, Ust-Ishmin, Oase1 and early Aurignacians ?

Eurasia
05-23-2022, 09:55 AM
We have at least three Denisovan introgression events in East Asia.
1) Tibetan introgression, with EPAS1, closer to Altai Denisavan (Tibetans have >=2 introgressions, I'm referring to EPAS1-related only)
2) Tianyuan-Mainland East Asia (Denisovan ancestry and population history of early East Asians (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.03.131995v1.full.pdf)), without EPAS1, distant to Altai Denisovan (The history and evolution of the Denisovan-EPAS1 haplotype in Tibetans (https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2020803118))
3) Papuan-Australian, also distant to Altai Denisovan
and others need further investigation to separate from the ones above
4) a recent Siberian one which lacks EPAS1 but close to AD.
5) Aeta-Agta, higher than Papuan
6) India
Even if Tianyuan has some Altai Denisovan-related introgression, the amount would be small.