PDA

View Full Version : Haplogroup T in the Balkans



Armed With Wings
08-08-2022, 04:40 PM
After doing my DNA test through 23andMe, I was surprised to find out that I belonged to the haplogroup T, specifically T-CTS2214. At the current time of me writing this post, I haven't tested for a deeper clade through any Y-DNA service kit, I only possess a clade prediction, that being T-BY31171 through the YSEQ Clade Finder. Since I'm from the Balkans, and the Balkans is known to have a predominant presence of haplogroups like I2a, R1a, R1b, E-V13 and J, I was wondering if there are any other cases of Balkaners who belong to the T Y-DNA lineage, and which specific subclades of T they have, and discuss the origin of each one of those specific clades.

Andre
08-08-2022, 05:37 PM
Being interested mostly in Moldova and Transylvania populations - due to my genealogical interest - i can tell you that There are a Romanian sample from Bacau (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Distretto+di+Bac%C4%83u,+Romania/@46.4149585,26.4295667,9.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x40b570183882e30b:0xf73277a66c61a eb4!8m2!3d46.3258184!4d26.662378)with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/ , in Romania DNA project, and a Hungarian from Arad (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Arad,+Romania/@46.0946863,21.1009966,8.67z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4745984ba35c59c3:0xf70074a3e5584 91!8m2!3d46.1865606!4d21.3122677) with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y4119/.
So, both with an ancestral version of your sub-clade.

Armed With Wings
08-08-2022, 07:17 PM
Are you, by chance, familiar with any samples that fall in the T-CTS2214 clade, or anything ancestral/descendant of it that are from the territory of North Macedonia, Greece or Bulgaria?

grumpydaddybear
08-08-2022, 07:27 PM
There are a number of Jewish branches underneath your clade. In addition to the ones listed below, there is also mine, which traveled through southern Europe.

https://sites.google.com/view/ashkenazi-y-dna-and-mtdna/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ashkenazi-jews/haplogroup-t-y-dna-clusters-for-ashkenazi-jews

J Man
08-08-2022, 08:26 PM
Being interested mostly in Moldova and Transylvania populations - due to my genealogical interest - i can tell you that There are a Romanian sample from Bacau (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Distretto+di+Bac%C4%83u,+Romania/@46.4149585,26.4295667,9.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x40b570183882e30b:0xf73277a66c61a eb4!8m2!3d46.3258184!4d26.662378)with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/ , in Romania DNA project, and a Hungarian from Arad (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Arad,+Romania/@46.0946863,21.1009966,8.67z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4745984ba35c59c3:0xf70074a3e5584 91!8m2!3d46.1865606!4d21.3122677) with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y4119/.
So, both with an ancestral version of your sub-clade.

I do not wish to derail this thread but do you know of any Non-Jewish Romanian, Transylvanian or Moldovan samples that belong to Y-DNA J2a?

td120
08-08-2022, 08:37 PM
Are you, by chance, familiar with any samples that fall in the T-CTS2214 clade, or anything ancestral/descendant of it that are from the territory of North Macedonia, Greece or Bulgaria?

Check out the public FTDNA tree:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T


It is against the regulations of this site to publish direct results but since there is public side on some of the FTDNA projects, just google
ftdna bulgarian dna project map . Note that this is the "public "side, there might be some more results in the "complete" results page.

There is a FTDNA Macedonian DNA, but it has no "public" side so you need to contact some of the guys here to get some more info (Aspar).

My advice is you summon the fund and get a WGS test ($200-ish + some extra spendings). All else is waste of time and resources.

P.S. checked the two 23andme account I manage,

T-M70 - Albanian, no info about the male line place of origin
T-M70 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Greek, no info (profile is typical for a continental Greek)
T-L446 - Bulgarian , near Black Sea coast
T-CTS8512 - Bulgarian ,no info
T-CTS2214- Italian surname, yet 75% NorthWest Euro and only 4.4% Italian

T-L446 - Italian, no info
T-L446 - Romanian, no info
T-L446-Bulgarian, no info
T-CTS6507 - typical Balkanite, might be Romanian, Bulgarian , W.Balkans...
T-CTS6507 - Turkish, West Anatolia male line

Have in mind that these fellas are tested at different time and the actual hg may be way downstream (technology limitations).

Andre
08-08-2022, 08:41 PM
I do not wish to derail this thread but do you know of any Non-Jewish Romanian, Transylvanian or Moldovan samples that belong to Y-DNA J2a?

Well, honestly i didn't analyze Romanians from Transylvania yet, only the Hungarians, but for Moldova region i can tell you that around 9% of samples (collected in: Romanian Moldova and Bucovina project, Romania Y-DNA FTDNA project, 23andme tests, Varzari et al. 2013 (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235364340_Paleo-Balkan_and_Slavic_Contributions_to_the_Genetic_Poo l_of_Moldavians_Insights_from_the_Y_Chromosome) and Martinez Cruz et al. 2012 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/)) have J2 Y-DNA. I collected in total 88 samples, so there are 8 with J2.

These are the clades:
J2-M172 > M410
J2-M172 > BY759
J2-M172 > SK1363
J2-M172 >L283
J2-M172*
J2-M410> L26> M92
J2-M102 (M12)
J2-M172 > M67

Andre
08-08-2022, 09:35 PM
And about the ancient samples (Iron Age to Medieval) from Balkans and near regions these are the T Y-DNA samples:

T-M184 > L446 -- VPB-561, Hungarian Conquest Period Commoner, Vors, Hungary, 900-1000 CE, Zoltßn Marˇti et al., 2022.
T-M184 > PF5620 -- SZ36, Longobard Period Pannonia, Szolad, Hungary, 400-600 CE, C.E.G. Amorim et al., 2018.
T-M184 > L131 -- I15532, Near Eastern Cluster, Viminacium, Serbia, 100-200 CE, I˝igo Olalde et al., 2021.

vettor
08-08-2022, 11:00 PM
Being interested mostly in Moldova and Transylvania populations - due to my genealogical interest - i can tell you that There are a Romanian sample from Bacau (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Distretto+di+Bac%C4%83u,+Romania/@46.4149585,26.4295667,9.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x40b570183882e30b:0xf73277a66c61a eb4!8m2!3d46.3258184!4d26.662378)with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/ , in Romania DNA project, and a Hungarian from Arad (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Arad,+Romania/@46.0946863,21.1009966,8.67z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4745984ba35c59c3:0xf70074a3e5584 91!8m2!3d46.1865606!4d21.3122677) with https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y4119/.
So, both with an ancestral version of your sub-clade.

Just to let you know ............T-Y4119 belongs to T1a1 branch

and T- L131 belongs to the T1a2 branch


They split 13500 years ago ...around Azeri lands

vettor
08-08-2022, 11:24 PM
All the T ydna found in the ancient samples of

Chalcolithic Burial Cave in Peqi'in, Upper Galilee, Israel ( ca. 4500–3500 bce) are all T-CTS2214 ...............all have the blue eyed gene .............and all came down from northern Asia Minor

sample info in link below

https://indo-european.eu/2018/08/migrations-in-the-levant-region-during-the-chalcolithic-also-marked-by-distinct-y-dna/


.................................................. .................................................. .

the main article is below .............it states all blue-eyed.......but origins Iran
Anomalous blue-eyed people came to Israel 6,500 years ago from Iran.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05649-9

vettor
08-09-2022, 01:55 AM
Check out the public FTDNA tree:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T


It is against the regulations of this site to publish direct results but since there is public side on some of the FTDNA projects, just google
ftdna bulgarian dna project map . Note that this is the "public "side, there might be some more results in the "complete" results page.

There is a FTDNA Macedonian DNA, but it has no "public" side so you need to contact some of the guys here to get some more info (Aspar).

My advice is you summon the fund and get a WGS test ($200-ish + some extra spendings). All else is waste of time and resources.

P.S. checked the two 23andme account I manage,

T-M70 - Albanian, no info about the male line place of origin
T-M70 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Greek, no info (profile is typical for a continental Greek)
T-L446 - Bulgarian , near Black Sea coast
T-CTS8512 - Bulgarian ,no info
T-CTS2214- Italian surname, yet 75% NorthWest Euro and only 4.4% Italian

T-L446 - Italian, no info
T-L446 - Romanian, no info
T-L446-Bulgarian, no info
T-CTS6507 - typical Balkanite, might be Romanian, Bulgarian , W.Balkans...
T-CTS6507 - Turkish, West Anatolia male line

Have in mind that these fellas are tested at different time and the actual hg may be way downstream (technology limitations).


I only know of 2 Albanian T ydna

Lorik Cana who married an italian woman from lombardy

and an unknown from butrint


the only Romanian I recall comes fro west romania , surname Kessel

Kelmendasi
08-09-2022, 09:42 AM
I only know of 2 Albanian T ydna

Lorik Cana who married an italian woman from lombardy

and an unknown from butrint


the only Romanian I recall comes fro west romania , surname Kessel
As far as I know there are currently eight public T1a Albanian samples under various different subclades. Four are under T-CTS933 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/): from GjakovŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gjakova/@42.3804403,20.3580511,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1353ae00233e3c19:0xf2ed6e4fa2703 626!8m2!3d42.3844104!4d20.4285021), Debar (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Debar,+North+Macedonia/@41.5202638,20.4698569,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135111e22bb938a5:0xa8da5f081fb14 702!8m2!3d41.5197573!4d20.5289), FterrŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fterr%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.1128976,19.8835998,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135b21730788937b:0x536edfdf528e9 0b0!8m2!3d40.113063!4d19.893864), and Berat (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berat,+Albania/@40.7062055,19.9077551,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a98b37536c5c9:0xd14c62aadd2f4 4e5!8m2!3d40.7086377!4d19.9437314); two are under T-CTS11451 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS11451/): one from near Murriz (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murriz,+Albania/@40.8518545,19.8209415,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1350097540c58d2d:0xf4046b31ddb93 71!8m2!3d40.8510968!4d19.8313493), the other is T-BY30157 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY30157/) and is from Margariti (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Margariti+460+30,+Greece/@39.3584097,20.4265322,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135c7be324589e29:0x400bd2ce2b997 40!8m2!3d39.3569163!4d20.439392); the remaining two are under T-Y8614 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y8614/): T-Y19986 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19986/) from KoršŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kor%C3%A7%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.6188391,20.7282608,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a0a1264b983fb:0xd46f0f4967c3b 944!8m2!3d40.6140785!4d20.7778071), and T-Y231412 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y231412/) from Gramsh (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gramsh,+Albania/@40.8666792,20.164697,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13507bac575f48f9:0xca19b5acfb7b2 a6c!8m2!3d40.8669873!4d20.1849323).

There are also some T1a results of Albanian ancestry, such as the Saračevići and DerviÜhalitovići of Sand×ak who trace their ancestry to Kastrati and are T-Z709 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Z709/). Tahir Efendi Jakova (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahir_Efendi_Jakova) should have belonged to this lineage as he was a descendant of the Saraši/Saračevići.

Kelmendasi
08-09-2022, 12:58 PM
As far as I know there are currently eight public T1a Albanian samples under various different subclades. Four are under T-CTS933 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/): from GjakovŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gjakova/@42.3804403,20.3580511,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1353ae00233e3c19:0xf2ed6e4fa2703 626!8m2!3d42.3844104!4d20.4285021), Debar (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Debar,+North+Macedonia/@41.5202638,20.4698569,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135111e22bb938a5:0xa8da5f081fb14 702!8m2!3d41.5197573!4d20.5289), FterrŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fterr%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.1128976,19.8835998,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135b21730788937b:0x536edfdf528e9 0b0!8m2!3d40.113063!4d19.893864), and Berat (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berat,+Albania/@40.7062055,19.9077551,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a98b37536c5c9:0xd14c62aadd2f4 4e5!8m2!3d40.7086377!4d19.9437314); two are under T-CTS11451 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS11451/): one from near Murriz (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murriz,+Albania/@40.8518545,19.8209415,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1350097540c58d2d:0xf4046b31ddb93 71!8m2!3d40.8510968!4d19.8313493), the other is T-BY30157 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY30157/) and is from Margariti (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Margariti+460+30,+Greece/@39.3584097,20.4265322,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135c7be324589e29:0x400bd2ce2b997 40!8m2!3d39.3569163!4d20.439392); the remaining two are under T-Y8614 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y8614/): T-Y19986 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19986/) from KoršŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kor%C3%A7%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.6188391,20.7282608,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a0a1264b983fb:0xd46f0f4967c3b 944!8m2!3d40.6140785!4d20.7778071), and T-Y231412 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y231412/) from Gramsh (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gramsh,+Albania/@40.8666792,20.164697,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13507bac575f48f9:0xca19b5acfb7b2 a6c!8m2!3d40.8669873!4d20.1849323).

There are also some T1a results of Albanian ancestry, such as the Saračevići and Dervišhalitovići of Sandžak who trace their ancestry to Kastrati and are T-Z709 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Z709/). Tahir Efendi Jakova (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahir_Efendi_Jakova) should have belonged to this lineage as he was a descendant of the Saraši/Saračevići.
There are also two families who claim ancestry from Hoti who are T-CTS8862 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/), one is from around PrishtinŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pristina/@42.6601948,21.0775315,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13549ee605110927:0x9365bfdf385eb 95a!8m2!3d42.6629138!4d21.1655028) while the other is from Leskovac (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leskovac,+Serbia/@42.9967062,21.7931172,11z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x475582b263712f39:0xd1b3351095c80 638!8m2!3d42.9963082!4d21.9429883).

Armed With Wings
08-09-2022, 04:01 PM
Glad this thread got somewhat active!

Armed With Wings
08-09-2022, 04:05 PM
Check out the public FTDNA tree:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T


It is against the regulations of this site to publish direct results but since there is public side on some of the FTDNA projects, just google
ftdna bulgarian dna project map . Note that this is the "public "side, there might be some more results in the "complete" results page.

There is a FTDNA Macedonian DNA, but it has no "public" side so you need to contact some of the guys here to get some more info (Aspar).

My advice is you summon the fund and get a WGS test ($200-ish + some extra spendings). All else is waste of time and resources.

P.S. checked the two 23andme account I manage,

T-M70 - Albanian, no info about the male line place of origin
T-M70 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Bulgarian, no info
T-L446 - Greek, no info (profile is typical for a continental Greek)
T-L446 - Bulgarian , near Black Sea coast
T-CTS8512 - Bulgarian ,no info
T-CTS2214- Italian surname, yet 75% NorthWest Euro and only 4.4% Italian

T-L446 - Italian, no info
T-L446 - Romanian, no info
T-L446-Bulgarian, no info
T-CTS6507 - typical Balkanite, might be Romanian, Bulgarian , W.Balkans...
T-CTS6507 - Turkish, West Anatolia male line

Have in mind that these fellas are tested at different time and the actual hg may be way downstream (technology limitations).

What interests me mostly about my Y-DNA lineage is knowing exactly which population it comes from. Obviously I myself am a Slav, but since T as a haplogroup is an extremely rare one in Europe, I guess the idea of which pre-Migration Period population in the Balkans would have a higher frequency of T, if it was even present in a single population at all, that is. Since it's not a mystery that Slavs that arrived in the Balkans arrived and were almost all carriers of I2a and some form of R1a if I'm not mistaken, it intrigues me to know just where my paternal line comes from in terms of populations.

As for Nebula Genomics, I have heard that the Deep DNA Test is the best in terms of money and services that it provides, that being for raw DNA data for Global25 and giving the deepest clade analysis, so I consider it as a must-have option.

td120
08-09-2022, 06:04 PM
Yep. Go for it, just wait for some promo campaign.
As for your case, it may or may not have been brought by the Slavs (or earlier invaders) South. You'll have a clearer picture after the WGS.

vettor
08-09-2022, 10:07 PM
As far as I know there are currently eight public T1a Albanian samples under various different subclades. Four are under T-CTS933 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/): from GjakovŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gjakova/@42.3804403,20.3580511,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1353ae00233e3c19:0xf2ed6e4fa2703 626!8m2!3d42.3844104!4d20.4285021), Debar (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Debar,+North+Macedonia/@41.5202638,20.4698569,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135111e22bb938a5:0xa8da5f081fb14 702!8m2!3d41.5197573!4d20.5289), FterrŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fterr%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.1128976,19.8835998,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135b21730788937b:0x536edfdf528e9 0b0!8m2!3d40.113063!4d19.893864), and Berat (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berat,+Albania/@40.7062055,19.9077551,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a98b37536c5c9:0xd14c62aadd2f4 4e5!8m2!3d40.7086377!4d19.9437314); two are under T-CTS11451 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS11451/): one from near Murriz (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murriz,+Albania/@40.8518545,19.8209415,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1350097540c58d2d:0xf4046b31ddb93 71!8m2!3d40.8510968!4d19.8313493), the other is T-BY30157 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY30157/) and is from Margariti (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Margariti+460+30,+Greece/@39.3584097,20.4265322,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135c7be324589e29:0x400bd2ce2b997 40!8m2!3d39.3569163!4d20.439392); the remaining two are under T-Y8614 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y8614/): T-Y19986 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19986/) from KoršŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kor%C3%A7%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.6188391,20.7282608,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a0a1264b983fb:0xd46f0f4967c3b 944!8m2!3d40.6140785!4d20.7778071), and T-Y231412 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y231412/) from Gramsh (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gramsh,+Albania/@40.8666792,20.164697,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13507bac575f48f9:0xca19b5acfb7b2 a6c!8m2!3d40.8669873!4d20.1849323).

There are also some T1a results of Albanian ancestry, such as the Saračevići and Dervišhalitovići of Sandžak who trace their ancestry to Kastrati and are T-Z709 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Z709/). Tahir Efendi Jakova (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahir_Efendi_Jakova) should have belonged to this lineage as he was a descendant of the Saraši/Saračevići.

thanks

the T1a2 branch is the CTS933 and all the others you mentioned are T1a1 branch .................I wonder if there is a T1a3 branch one in Albania as ancient Etruscan area of Italy has there been found all 3 branches

vettor
08-09-2022, 10:09 PM
What interests me mostly about my Y-DNA lineage is knowing exactly which population it comes from. Obviously I myself am a Slav, but since T as a haplogroup is an extremely rare one in Europe, I guess the idea of which pre-Migration Period population in the Balkans would have a higher frequency of T, if it was even present in a single population at all, that is. Since it's not a mystery that Slavs that arrived in the Balkans arrived and were almost all carriers of I2a and some form of R1a if I'm not mistaken, it intrigues me to know just where my paternal line comes from in terms of populations.

As for Nebula Genomics, I have heard that the Deep DNA Test is the best in terms of money and services that it provides, that being for raw DNA data for Global25 and giving the deepest clade analysis, so I consider it as a must-have option.

there are 7 ancient neolithic samples found ( so far ) under T1a1 branch .............you are T1a1 branch

4 found in Germany and 3 in Bulgaria

I am only stating BC times...........not including the vikings or lombards also found in AD times

vettor
08-09-2022, 10:12 PM
There are also two families who claim ancestry from Hoti who are T-CTS8862 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/), one is from around PrishtinŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pristina/@42.6601948,21.0775315,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13549ee605110927:0x9365bfdf385eb 95a!8m2!3d42.6629138!4d21.1655028) while the other is from Leskovac (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leskovac,+Serbia/@42.9967062,21.7931172,11z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x475582b263712f39:0xd1b3351095c80 638!8m2!3d42.9963082!4d21.9429883).

who are these , interested ...as you placed here my group

Armed With Wings
08-10-2022, 04:36 PM
there are 7 ancient neolithic samples found ( so far ) under T1a1 branch .............you are T1a1 branch

4 found in Germany and 3 in Bulgaria

I am only stating BC times...........not including the vikings or lombards also found in AD times

What are the clades that the Viking and Lombard samples fall under, exactly?

vettor
08-10-2022, 07:56 PM
What are the clades that the Viking and Lombard samples fall under, exactly?

both T1a1 and T1a2 .............

CL23 is found in Lombardy and is T1a2

then there are T1a2 samples in Sweden and Estonia ( both Viking )

The T1a1 samples are in Hungary and are Lombard ...............the place the lombards arrived before heading to Italy to defeat the Ostrogoths and take Italy

vettor
08-10-2022, 08:09 PM
Sample: CL23 ...............T1a2
Location: Collegno, Piedmont, Italy
Age: Longobard 6th Century
Y-DNA: T-BY45363
mtDNA: H



Sample: SZ36 .............T1a1
Location: Szˇlßd, Somogy County, Hungary
Age: Longobard 6th Century
Y-DNA: T-Y15712
mtDNA: U4c2a


Sample VK398 ...............T1a2
Location: Scania, Sweden
Y-DNA: T1a2b1
mtDNA: H1b1+16362

BMK
10-02-2022, 10:26 AM
Gorani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorani_people)guy formed new branch Y211139 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y211139/) with German. On Serbian DNA Project we have dozen results of this small ethnic group an two of them belongs to different branches of T haplogroup. Other one is predicted as PF7443 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-PF7443/).

vettor
10-25-2022, 07:31 PM
Gorani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorani_people)guy formed new branch Y211139 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y211139/) with German. On Serbian DNA Project we have dozen results of this small ethnic group an two of them belongs to different branches of T haplogroup. Other one is predicted as PF7443 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-PF7443/).

T1a2 branch ....................for Y211139 from T-L131 group

PF7443 is a T1a1 branch from T-L162 group


whats going on ?

vettor
10-25-2022, 10:44 PM
And about the ancient samples (Iron Age to Medieval) from Balkans and near regions these are the T Y-DNA samples:

T-M184 > L446 -- VPB-561, Hungarian Conquest Period Commoner, Vors, Hungary, 900-1000 CE, Zoltßn Marˇti et al., 2022.
T-M184 > PF5620 -- SZ36, Longobard Period Pannonia, Szolad, Hungary, 400-600 CE, C.E.G. Amorim et al., 2018.
T-M184 > L131 -- I15532, Near Eastern Cluster, Viminacium, Serbia, 100-200 CE, I˝igo Olalde et al., 2021.

also CL23 is the same marker ( a longobard found in North Italy grave )

vettor
10-25-2022, 10:46 PM
As far as I know there are currently eight public T1a Albanian samples under various different subclades. Four are under T-CTS933 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/): from GjakovŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gjakova/@42.3804403,20.3580511,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1353ae00233e3c19:0xf2ed6e4fa2703 626!8m2!3d42.3844104!4d20.4285021), Debar (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Debar,+North+Macedonia/@41.5202638,20.4698569,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135111e22bb938a5:0xa8da5f081fb14 702!8m2!3d41.5197573!4d20.5289), FterrŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fterr%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.1128976,19.8835998,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135b21730788937b:0x536edfdf528e9 0b0!8m2!3d40.113063!4d19.893864), and Berat (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berat,+Albania/@40.7062055,19.9077551,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a98b37536c5c9:0xd14c62aadd2f4 4e5!8m2!3d40.7086377!4d19.9437314); two are under T-CTS11451 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS11451/): one from near Murriz (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murriz,+Albania/@40.8518545,19.8209415,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x1350097540c58d2d:0xf4046b31ddb93 71!8m2!3d40.8510968!4d19.8313493), the other is T-BY30157 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY30157/) and is from Margariti (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Margariti+460+30,+Greece/@39.3584097,20.4265322,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135c7be324589e29:0x400bd2ce2b997 40!8m2!3d39.3569163!4d20.439392); the remaining two are under T-Y8614 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y8614/): T-Y19986 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19986/) from KoršŰ (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kor%C3%A7%C3%AB,+Albania/@40.6188391,20.7282608,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x135a0a1264b983fb:0xd46f0f4967c3b 944!8m2!3d40.6140785!4d20.7778071), and T-Y231412 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Y231412/) from Gramsh (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gramsh,+Albania/@40.8666792,20.164697,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x13507bac575f48f9:0xca19b5acfb7b2 a6c!8m2!3d40.8669873!4d20.1849323).

There are also some T1a results of Albanian ancestry, such as the Saračevići and DerviÜhalitovići of Sand×ak who trace their ancestry to Kastrati and are T-Z709 (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/T-Z709/). Tahir Efendi Jakova (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahir_Efendi_Jakova) should have belonged to this lineage as he was a descendant of the Saraši/Saračevići.

they must be "illyrian" ...........!!!

vettor
10-25-2022, 10:51 PM
Oldest T1a2 found in Europe was in Estonia....and modern czech lands

oldest T1a1 found in europe are from neolitihc times
4 in Germany....3 from Karsdorf and 1 from Derenberg all samples from all around the Harz mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harz

3 in Bulgaria around Malek

1 in southern Macedonia ( not greek part )