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Little bit
09-08-2012, 10:46 AM
Hello all,

I am J1c3, my eldest mitochondrial ancestress is from Frankfurt Germany. In 2009 when I first got my results from 23andme my mtdna was assigned as J1a* which may have already been superceded by then. It turns out I am a perfect match for AY495214, which I understand comes from an American of European decent:

1) J1c3(AY495214)

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3(AY495214):
HVR2: 73G 228A 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 5442C 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 12858T 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 15758G
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3(AY495214):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) 228A 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 185G 5442C 12858T 15758G ⇨ J1c3(AY495214)

Perfect Match! Your results are an exact match to this haplogroup.
Matches(30): 73G 185G 228A 263G 295T 462T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 5442C 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 12858T 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 15758G 16069T 16126C
http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/

I'd like to connect with other's interested in mtdna J and would especially like to find out more about J1c3.

Here is a spreadsheet I started trying to track where the different subclades of J come from:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqARKoDx3EVHdGJkd3ptRVhDSll2WHFocmg0SU0ta UE&hl=en_US#gid=0

This is my favorite mtdna J subclade source:
Supplemental Data Mitochondrial DNA Signals
of Late Glacial Recolonization of Europe from Near Eastern Refugia
http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929712002042.mmc1.pdf

This seems to be the latest phylogeny of J by J. J. (Jim) Logan that I know of:
On the Structure and Age of Haplogroup JT ˗ A Phylogenetic Tour
http://www.jogg.info/72/files/Logan.pdf

I am most interested in exploring the finding of why J1c is 3 times as large as J1b and J1d combined - see page 6 of 27 of the phylogeny.

Little bit
10-01-2012, 08:24 PM
New result today after update to mtdna analysis tool:

1) J1c3i

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3i:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 5442C 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 15758G
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3i (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 5442C 15758G ⇨ J1c3i ⇨ 12858T

Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
Matches(28): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 5442C 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 15758G 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(0): (185G)
Extras(1): 12858T

Here is the thread outlining the update by jlick:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?361-mthap-an-mtdna-haplogroup-analysis-tool&p=2033

Little bit
10-20-2012, 08:06 PM
Another interesting study with implications for J1c subclades and J1c3 specifically:

MtDNA analysis of global populations support that major population expansions began before Neolithic Time
http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121018/srep00745/full/srep00745.html


According to the median-joining network analysis, 15 star lineages were observed in Figure 4. Most of them (HV, H, H1, H3, J1c, T1, T2, U5a1, U5a, K1, V, W, U2'3'4'7'8'9) coalesced before 10 kya although 2 lineages (J1c3 and T2b) might expand in 10 kya. Except HV and U2'3'4'7'8'9, other lineages expanded about after LGM. A very distinct and major expansion in Figure 4 is the H lineage, and subsequent expansions of haplogroups H1 and H3 were also important in Europe. About 44.5% of European samples in current analysis belonged to the H expansion, which happened right after LGM according to our calculation (Table S3).


The population expansion began ~ 13 kya might correlate to lineages H1, H3, J1c, J1c3, K1, T1, U5a1, V and W.

So, I wonder if the reason that J1c is 3 times as large as J1b and J1d combined is due to it being part of the pre-neolithic expansion in Europe whereas J1b perhaps came during or after the neolithic expansion?

NorwegianJ
02-10-2013, 07:50 PM
Just joined after a search led me to your postings, Little Bit. Thank you for your good up to date information. I have not been following these discussions recently. The subclades keep being reorganized, but when I checked my results again on FamilyTreeDNA, I am now classified J1c3g; my maternal line that traces back to the late 18th century on an island south of Tromso, Norway. While the J1c line in general seems to have come into Europe up the Danube into Germany, and there was quite a bit of back and forth between Germany and Scandinavia, my recent thoughts for how this maternal line got to Norway are as follows. I recently found out that the inhabitants of this particular area go back to a Viking stronghold that predates the Danish expansion into the Tromso area that I know included my ancestors. This young woman who was my ancestor was born in the Viking area and came to Tromso as a young woman and married one of my Danish ancestors. Given that so many of my exact matches are in the British Isles, and particularly Ireland, I would not be surprised if some Viking brought my maternal ancestor back to the north of Norway. They made a habit of that in populating Iceland, so such an origin would be consistent. Now to understand more about how this line ended up in the British Isles. :)

Little bit
04-22-2013, 09:20 PM
Interesting stuff. I wish we had a better grasp on where J1c and daughter subclades originated and range. I purchased the FMS test from FTDNA for me (on sale) and hope to learn more about my J1c3i. I'm curious if I will come up as a match to a particular individual as I currently am a perfect match for J1c3i(AY495214) using the mtdna analysis tool. AY495214 is evidently an American of European descent.

geebee
04-22-2013, 09:29 PM
My wife and daughter are listed as J1c3, but unfortunately their results are only from 23andMe. For what it's worth, though, their earliest known ancestor in the mtDNA was born in Bavaria in about 1865 or thereabouts.

Little bit
04-22-2013, 11:03 PM
23andme gives me 'just' J1c3 too. Run their MT raw data, unzipped, through this tool and see if they can be classified further:
http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/

The Mtdna Phylotree is changed frequently but 23andme hasn't updated haplogroups since around 2010. I used to be classified as J1a*, once upon a time. :)

Here's an interesting link which describes how maternal haplogroups are "born":
http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/31/mitochondrial-dna-birthing-haplogroup-subclades/

geebee
04-23-2013, 05:45 AM
Thanks, Little bit. If I remember correctly, my wife and daughter were also first classified as J1a*.

I used the link you provided, and the "best match" proved to be J1c3c. "Extra" SNPs were also identified, so I presume that means there's some room for possible reclassification down the road.

(As an aside, I might note that even my own haplogroup classification has changed at FTDNA. This is in spite of having had the FGS from the start. It's gone from being H1 to H1bg. Very small group so far -- actually only two in the samples at http://www.mtdnacommunity.org/human-mtdna-phylogeny.aspx, one of which is mine.)

divinity2k
04-24-2013, 10:25 AM
Hello :)

I just made a google search of my 23andme mtdna, and was directed to this place. I am maternal J1c3 aswell and I am born in Norway. My analysis looks like this:

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) J1c3g

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3g:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 9755A 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3g (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 9755A ⇨ J1c3g ⇨ 8383C

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(26): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 9755A 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(1): 8383C
No-Calls(1): 462T


2) J1c3

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 8383C 9755A 13934T

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(24): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(3): 8383C 9755A 13934T
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3d

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3d:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 1811G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3d (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 1811G ⇨ J1c3d ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 1811A
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3b

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3b:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15367T 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3b (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 15367T ⇨ J1c3b ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 15367C
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3h

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3h:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8659G 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3h (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 8659G ⇨ J1c3h ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 8659A
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3a

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3a:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 9548A 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 9548A ⇨ J1c3a ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 9548G
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3k

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3k:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 10497T 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3k (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 10497T ⇨ J1c3k ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 10497C
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A
No-Calls(1): 462T


3) J1c3e

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3e:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C 16390A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3e (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 16390A ⇨ J1c3e ⇨ 8383C 9755A

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(25): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A 16069T 16126C
Mismatches(1): 16390G
Flips(0): (185T)
Extras(2): 8383C 9755A

I must admit I am still learning, and that all of this is "greek" to me, but I understand that by trying to trace the specific "numbers" in my dna (like above) can help me find the exact rout of my ancestors aswell as others sharing the same genetic line :)

Big hugs Malla

Little bit
04-26-2013, 01:14 PM
Of the J1c3's I've directed to the mtdna analysis tool, J1c3g is one of the more common results along with J1c3c. I've been agitating a long time for 23andme to ask new customers where their eldest mitochondrial ancestress and Y chromosome ancestors descend from, with no success so far. I just don't understand why 23andme is sitting on this goldmine of data and every new customer's first question is where do other's with their haplogroup come from?!

Looking at FTDNA's J haplogroup project, J1c3g looks decidedly NW European with reports from Norway, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and what appears to be Denmark. J1c3c appears to be more German. J1c3f is mostly colonials but one reporting from Norway. No J1c3i's...maybe I'll be the first? ;)

IrishTypeIII
08-16-2013, 02:33 AM
It appears that the nomenclature for mtDNA is getting like that for yDNA haplogroups - forever changing!

According to Jim Logan's 2009 JT Definitions pdf (which is the latest I could find, I was J1c2b.
Now looking at This one (http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929712002042.mmc1.pdf), I appear to be J1c2a2. My defining mutation is 4454c.

Calamus
08-24-2013, 09:50 AM
I just found out my paternal grandfathers mother had mtDNA haplogroup J1c3f via a Family Finder match.
We are 3rd cousins once removed, our common ancestor was on his mtDNA line.
Thanks to him also testing his mtDNA, I also found out my great-grandmothers mtDNA haplogroup :)

Kraai
02-27-2014, 02:47 AM
J1c3c appears to be more German.

Interesting to know. This is the first time I've seen J1c3c pinpointed more specifically than just "Uh, Europe-ish?"

My maternal line is J1c3c.... but, I've never been able to trace back my maternal line past 5 generations, and all were born and raised in the United States! Most of my mother's ancestry is English however, so this particular J1c3c most likely came from there... but there's no reason to suggest that there were perhaps German-area ancestors that preceded them, as we all know various Germanic groups settled Britain.

Little bit
02-28-2014, 10:00 PM
I see that Eupedia has updated it's maps and haplogroup descriptions. Overall, I like what they write to mtdna J, J1c specifically, and it does attempt to pinpoint subclades:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J_mtDNA.shtml#distribution

Nothing for my J1c3i, though I know mine is German/Swiss. I was surprised that new build 16 didn't have an update for me since I know there are 4 of us with the identical results and extra but perhaps my 2 perfect matches have not uploaded to Genbank?

Edit: Btw, IrishTypeIII, my husband/son are also R-L226 Irish III. Frawley from Rathkeale Limerick, Ireland. :beerchug:

gottex
11-17-2014, 05:44 PM
Interesting to know. This is the first time I've seen J1c3c pinpointed more specifically than just "Uh, Europe-ish?"

My maternal line is J1c3c.... but, I've never been able to trace back my maternal line past 5 generations, and all were born and raised in the United States! Most of my mother's ancestry is English however, so this particular J1c3c most likely came from there... but there's no reason to suggest that there were perhaps German-area ancestors that preceded them, as we all know various Germanic groups settled Britain.

I’m J1C3C1.My maternal line starts from 1580 to 1640 in France ,1OOkm west of Geneva. I have the full mt sequence. I have 3 matches, one in Baden in Germany and two in Luxembourg .This confirms that J1C3C1 must be of German origin.

ArmandoR1b
11-17-2014, 11:36 PM
Another interesting study with implications for J1c subclades and J1c3 specifically:

MtDNA analysis of global populations support that major population expansions began before Neolithic Time
http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121018/srep00745/full/srep00745.html

So, I wonder if the reason that J1c is 3 times as large as J1b and J1d combined is due to it being part of the pre-neolithic expansion in Europe whereas J1b perhaps came during or after the neolithic expansion?

That study wasn't well done. See Gail's critique at http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?399-New-paper-on-mtDNA-from-1000-Genomes-Project

Jean Manco disagrees that mtDNA J was in Europe prior to the Neolithic expansion. See page 100 of Ancestral Journeys.

bybrandy
03-28-2015, 11:05 PM
Also a J1c3g with maternal relatives from Tromso and a fair bit of British ancestry composition. I've assumed the same thing.

Little bit
03-29-2015, 01:17 PM
That study wasn't well done. See Gail's critique at http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...enomes-Project

Jean Manco disagrees that mtDNA J was in Europe prior to the Neolithic expansion. See page 100 of Ancestral Journeys.

Sorry about the late reply to your Nov 2014 post, but I am curious, if Mtdna J1c (and subclades) was not in Europe prior to the Neolithic expansion, what would be a plausible theory on it's success in Europe? Mtdna J, J1b & J1d, can reach high levels in certain Middle Eastern populations but I suspect that may be due to endogamy and cousin marriage. What about in Europe where neither endogamy nor cousin marriage was as prevalent? Mtdna J is well known for having mutations that although favorable in some ways are also pathogenic in others. So why would this mtdna show such an impressive expansion? I've also wondered if J1c's were part of an expansion that may have possibly carried favorable traits such as skin pigmentation that enabled better vitamin d production or lactase persistence?

Mtdna J has shown in studies to be linked with cold adaption, long life, and protection against some diseases of old age. But it's also been linked with mitochondrial disease, accelerated illness and death from HIV, mtdna J1c and U5a's simply run out of energy, and it's absence in other mitochondrial diseases suggests that it is incompatible with life under certain circumstances. It seems to me mtdna J1c is a dark horse of sorts in Europe that came from nowhere and exploded on the scene. I did find an interesting correlation in the constance of mtdna J in Scandinavia, modern versus ancient, so maybe it was just a function of cold adaption? http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3941-Mitochondrial-DNA-variation-in-the-Viking-age-population-of-Norway

Which begs the question: Why did a mtdna which promotes cold adaption evolve in the Near East? And how did it miss the ice age?

craighullinger
04-13-2015, 03:40 PM
My wife is J1c3g. She was adopted at birth and we did not know anything about her biological heritage.

We found her Sister Serena. Both women were in their 60's when they found each other - they started looking within one month of the other starting to look

http://serenabeth.blogspot.com/ http://ruyledna.blogspot.com/

The Godwin maternal line for Serena Windham and Beth Hullinger

Barbary Godwin.

Elizabeth Godwin b. December 5, 1805

Martha “Mattie” Carolyn Smith b. May 16, 1847, d. Dec 20, 1891 (Smithville, GA named for her).

Mable (Mae) Barrow b Oct 19, 1882

Mable Young b Jul 17, 1924 d Nov 20, 2003

Serena Young Windham and Beth Young Ruyle Hullinger

Jessie
05-18-2015, 01:31 PM
Of the J1c3's I've directed to the mtdna analysis tool, J1c3g is one of the more common results along with J1c3c. I've been agitating a long time for 23andme to ask new customers where their eldest mitochondrial ancestress and Y chromosome ancestors descend from, with no success so far. I just don't understand why 23andme is sitting on this goldmine of data and every new customer's first question is where do other's with their haplogroup come from?!

Looking at FTDNA's J haplogroup project, J1c3g looks decidedly NW European with reports from Norway, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and what appears to be Denmark. J1c3c appears to be more German. J1c3f is mostly colonials but one reporting from Norway. No J1c3i's...maybe I'll be the first? ;)

I'm J1c3f and definitely not colonial but Irish. I've just ordered the Mtdna Full Sequence so it should be interesting to see if this gives me more details. I've already done the MTDNA Plus for HVR1 and HVR2. With HVR1 my exact matches are with people in Norway and Sweden and with HVR2 someone in Canada and the US. Hopefully this will give me a more in depth information.

Little bit
05-18-2015, 03:19 PM
I'm J1c3f and definitely not colonial but Irish.

Here's another source you can use for reference:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/j1c3f-k_genbank_sequences.htm

Good luck on your FMS test! FTDNA is behind on Phylotree nomenclature so make sure you get your Fasta file and run it though the James Lick mtdna analysis tool to double check. My J1c3i shows up as J1c3 on my FMS test with my J1c3i mutations as extras. Also, consider submitting your results to Genbank to further the understanding of mtdna J:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/Submission.htm

:beerchug:

Gray Fox
05-18-2015, 07:28 PM
I'm J1c3f and definitely not colonial but Irish. I've just ordered the Mtdna Full Sequence so it should be interesting to see if this gives me more details. I've already done the MTDNA Plus for HVR1 and HVR2. With HVR1 my exact matches are with people in Norway and Sweden and with HVR2 someone in Canada and the US. Hopefully this will give me a more in depth information.

You should display it on your mtDNA info! We're an elite group :horn:

Jessie
05-19-2015, 04:48 AM
You should display it on your mtDNA info! We're an elite group :horn:

Will do. I'll update when I have new info.

Gray Fox
05-19-2015, 05:41 AM
Here's another source you can use for reference:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/j1c3f-k_genbank_sequences.htm

Good luck on your FMS test! FTDNA is behind on Phylotree nomenclature so make sure you get your Fasta file and run it though the James Lick mtdna analysis tool to double check. My J1c3i shows up as J1c3 on my FMS test with my J1c3i mutations as extras. Also, consider submitting your results to Genbank to further the understanding of mtdna J:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/Submission.htm

:beerchug:

Quite a few Danes in the J1c8 camp. Thanks for sharing!

millsted
05-24-2015, 11:23 PM
Do we have a source for approximate dating of the emergence of J1c3? My cousin is J1c3c (with FTDNA), and she is asking me wehere that woman fits in the human timeline.

millsted

Jessie
06-03-2015, 06:21 AM
I've just had my mtdna FMS test come through and I'm classified as J1c3f (which I knew anyway but good to get the confirmation). The interesting thing is the genetic distance and it appears quite eastern to me. So 11 - 25 generations ago I shared an ancestor with someone from Norway and the Russian Federation. Anyone else got any insight on this?

Genetic Distance - 1
Country
Norway
Russian Federation

Genetic Distance - 2
Country
Norway
Sweden
United Kingdom
England
Germany
France
Ireland
Hungary

Genetic Distance - 3
Bosnia and Herzegovina
England
France
Germany
Ireland
Norway
Poland
Russian Federation

Wulf Warrior
06-03-2015, 06:59 AM
I've just had my mtdna FMS test come through and I'm classified as J1c3f (which I knew anyway but good to get the confirmation). The interesting thing is the genetic distance and it appears quite eastern to me. So 11 - 25 generations ago I shared an ancestor with someone from Norway and the Russian Federation. Anyone else got any insight on this?

Genetic Distance - 1
Country
Norway
Russian Federation

Genetic Distance - 2
Country
Norway
Sweden
United Kingdom
England
Germany
France
Ireland
Hungary

Genetic Distance - 3
Bosnia and Herzegovina
England
France
Germany
Ireland
Norway
Poland
Russian Federation

I'm betting on a Scandinavian origin, possibly.

Jessie
06-03-2015, 08:34 AM
Yes possibly. The matches to Norway of 1 genetic distance and 2 genetic distance have the same name ending in datter. I presume that is daughter. I guess it could be Viking related.

There are actually 3 different matches with the same surname so that's interesting.

Calamus
06-03-2015, 06:26 PM
Yes possibly. The matches to Norway of 1 genetic distance and 2 genetic distance have the same name ending in datter. I presume that is daughter. I guess it could be Viking related.

There are actually 3 different matches with the same surname so that's interesting.

Yes, datter is daughter. Prior to the 1923 naming law most Norwegians didn't have a surname as they used the patronymic naming system.

Would one of your Norwegian J1c3f matches be Marit Olsdatter? This is my 3rd cousins mtDNA line.

Jessie
06-04-2015, 02:33 AM
Yes, datter is daughter. Prior to the 1923 naming law most Norwegians didn't have a surname as they used the patronymic naming system.

Would one of your Norwegian J1c3f matches be Marit Olsdatter? This is my 3rd cousins mtDNA line.

Yes it is Marit Olsdatter. She is a 1 step match to me on full sequencing. My goodness what a small world.

Krefter
06-04-2015, 07:14 AM
Do we have a source for approximate dating of the emergence of J1c3? My cousin is J1c3c (with FTDNA), and she is asking me wehere that woman fits in the human timeline.

millsted

J1c3 here is estimated to be ~11,000 years old.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929712002042

The conclusion of that paper though, that JT colonized Europe after the LGM, doesn't seem likely, so I wouldn't be surprised if their age estimates are too old. J is absent from Pre-Neolithic European mtDNA, and is very popular in Neolithic immigrants who originated in the East Mediterranean. Just under 100% of their J was J1c, and J1c3 certainly came along. The oldest of confirmed J1c is just under 8,000 years old and from Hungary. Although if we had older samples from Greece, Anatolia, and the Near East we'd find older J1cs.

Today, J1c is very rare outside of Europe. In Europe it's the main type of J. So, just about all J1c(and J1c3) probably came to Europe in the Neolithic from the East Mediterranean, and not in any later migrations from the Middle East.

J1c3's markers has only been tested in a few ancient mtDNA samples. But with just HV1 coverage it can be found whether an individual has J1c3f or not, and an individual from Germany who lived over 4,000 years ago had J1c3f.

Jessie
06-04-2015, 07:25 AM
J1c3 here is estimated to be ~11,000 years old.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929712002042

The conclusion of that paper though, that JT colonized Europe after the LGM, doesn't seem likely, so I wouldn't be surprised if their age estimates are too old. J is absent from Pre-Neolithic European mtDNA, and is very popular in Neolithic immigrants who originated in the East Mediterranean. Just under 100% of their J was J1c, and J1c3 certainly came along. The oldest of confirmed J1c is just under 8,000 years old and from Hungary. Although if we had older samples from Greece, Anatolia, and the Near East we'd find older J1cs.

Today, J1c is very rare outside of Europe. In Europe it's the main type of J. So, just about all J1c(and J1c3) probably came to Europe in the Neolithic from the East Mediterranean, and not in any later migrations from the Middle East.

J1c3's markers has only been tested in a few ancient mtDNA samples. But with just HV1 coverage it can be found whether an individual has J1c3f or not, and an individual from Germany who lived over 4,000 years ago had J1c3f.

Thanks for this. This is the type of information that is very difficult to find.

Jessie
06-04-2015, 07:33 AM
Just wondering if the individual from Germany who lived 4,000 years ago was a Bell Beaker?

Krefter
06-04-2015, 08:00 AM
Just wondering if the individual from Germany who lived 4,000 years ago was a Bell Beaker?

Unetice.

NorwegianJ
06-13-2017, 05:23 PM
As a J1c3g, I've been following the discussions and watching my matches on FTDNA for a long time. My conclusion is that it's locus was NW Scotland and was brought to Norway with the Vikings. I even identified the region of my most distant female ancestor as what was a major viking center on the SW coast of Norway, pretty much opposite Scotland, Rogaland.

SveinD
06-13-2017, 06:00 PM
To NorwegianJ from another "NorwegianJ" (this one J1c2f)!

You may of course be correct about the arrival from Scotland of your J1c3g possible ancestor, but as the age of the G9755A mutation, which define the "g" sub-group is 1400-10000 years, http://haplogroup.org/mtdna/rsrs/l123456/l23456/l2346/l346/l34/l3/n/r/jt/j/j1/j1c/j1c3/j1c3g/, it is equally possible that this sub-group was present in Norway prior to the Viking age - and is it not possible that the migration was in the opposite direction?

We need to wait for correctly dated ancient DNA results before we can be certain.

europeanamerican
07-09-2017, 05:37 PM
Below is my James Lick report. I am an imperfect match for all of the suggested haplogroups. How do I know which one I am a part of?


Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

HVR2: 73G 263G 295T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15452A
HVR1: 16069T



Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) J1c3

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3:
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(22): 73G 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T
Mismatches(0): (228G)
No-Calls(1): 16126C
Untested(2): 185 462 15326



2) J1c3b

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3b:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15367T 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3b:
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 15367T ⇨ J1c3b

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(22): 73G 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T
Mismatches(0): (228G)
No-Calls(1): 16126C
Untested(3): 185 462 15326 15367



3) J1c3b2

Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c3b2:
HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 4829G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15326G 15367T 15452A
HVR1: 16069T 16126C

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c3b2:
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 13934T ⇨ J1c3 ⇨ 15367T ⇨ J1c3b ⇨ 4829G ⇨ J1c3b2

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(22): 73G 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 13934T 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T
Mismatches(0): (228G)
No-Calls(1): 16126C
Untested(4): 185 462 4829 15326 15367

J1 DYS388=13
07-09-2017, 07:48 PM
J1c3b2. You have one mismatch along the way, but that is not enough to throw you off track.

abds
09-12-2017, 05:10 AM
Hi, my wife father MT is J1c3f, they come from Moldova Rep.

Jessie
02-11-2018, 12:34 PM
I now have 2 full matches both Irish and 1 step matches in the following countries. Does anyone see a pattern here? Thanks.

http://i66.tinypic.com/s5h0zr.png

Jessie
09-24-2020, 06:41 PM
Double post.

Jessie
09-24-2020, 06:45 PM
Viking samples have been added to the J1c3f tree on yfull. I'm in the same branch with VK517.

https://i.imgur.com/sBMr1di.png

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/J1c3f/

These are the two Viking samples added.

https://i.imgur.com/3hHjLRv.png

https://i.imgur.com/elaLIEH.png