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#YoloSwag
07-08-2014, 05:11 PM
Are there any genetic relations between those people besides e1b1b?

Ignis90
07-08-2014, 07:25 PM
Y dna J1, mtdna M1 and U6, paleolithic Eurasian back-migrations, little to no Ancient North Eurasian ancestry (and other post-neolithic Eurasian influence, apart from ethiosemites). It also applies to Egyptians (minus ANE/West Asian influence).

Stellaritic
07-08-2014, 07:29 PM
The(North)East African and the Red Sea autosomal components .

#YoloSwag
07-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Y dna J1, mtdna M1 and U6, paleolithic Eurasian back-migrations, little to no Ancient North Eurasian ancestry (and other post-neolithic Eurasian influence, apart from ethiosemites). It also applies to Egyptians (minus ANE/West Asian influence).

1. Paleothic eurasian back migration? How much of it share Berbers, Egyptians and people from the Horn of Africa? I mean how much common admixture? Can you link me a study?

2. How high is the ANE in Berbers and people from the Horn of Africa? Can you link me a study?

3.Did U6 migrate from Northwestafrica to Eastafrica?

#YoloSwag
07-08-2014, 08:56 PM
The(North)East African and the Red Sea autosomal components .

Thanks. Can you link me a study please?
What exactly is Red sea component?

Humanist
07-08-2014, 09:06 PM
Y dna J1, mtdna M1 and U6, paleolithic Eurasian back-migrations, little to no Ancient North Eurasian ancestry (and other post-neolithic Eurasian influence, apart from ethiosemites). It also applies to Egyptians (minus ANE/West Asian influence).

How about Y-DNA T? From what I have read, based on modern samples, basal T varieties have been absent in the Horn of Africa.

#YoloSwag
07-08-2014, 09:15 PM
How about Y-DNA T? From what I have read, based on modern samples, basal T varieties have been absent in the Horn of Africa.

What are basal T variants? Isn't T common in the Horn of Africa?

Humanist
07-08-2014, 09:25 PM
What are basal T variants? Isn't T common in the Horn of Africa?

Basal varieties of any haplogroup are those that are near the root of the haplogroup, as compared to more downstream and derived forms. From my understanding, from the available data, the varieties of Y-DNA T in the Horn of Africa have been of the latter variety.

Addendum:


[A]lmost all of M70* chromosomes surveyed here are found in the Near East, and the two main subclades (T1a and T1b) also predominate in this area. Finally, the internal structure of the T clade, with the single T* sample coming from Syria, provides evidence that the most basal haplogroup T branch is present in the Near East.

Increased resolution of Y chromosome haplogroup T defines relationships among populations of the Near East, Europe, and Africa. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21453003)

Mendez et al. (2011)

vettor
07-08-2014, 10:28 PM
What are basal T variants? Isn't T common in the Horn of Africa?

it is common there, but T arrived in africa only in recent times ( less than 1500 years ago ) along with J1. The paper below is a good read. It explains why the "babylonian" J1 and the "persian" T1 went to east-africa and madagscar .....it was for slaves

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0080932

Haplogroup J1 is predominant in Middle East, and also very frequent in North and Northeast Africa, Europe, India and Pakistan [42][64][65]. The T1 haplogroup, found at very low frequency in the world, seems to have a Southwestern Asia origin and to be associated with many demographic processes such as the spread of agriculture, the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles and the Jewish Diaspora [49]. Its presence in eastern Asia could be due to commercial and cultural exchanges via the former Silk Road [50]. .................................................. ............................................ The Median-Joining network for T1 haplotypes links these lineages to Israel, Lebanon and Palestine. These results are also consistent with the low FST values between Anteony and Antalaotra and populations from Middle East/Southwest Asia. The combination of these two lineages (J1 and T1) tends to converge to an origin in the Persian Gulf or Middle East.

Agamemnon
07-08-2014, 10:49 PM
^^ I still think that J1 & T were both involved in the spread of Afroasiatic, at least since one of its early stages.
The Fregel et al paper which documented the presence of J1 in pre-hispanic guanches, along with the Plaster study on the Horn favour such a scenario.

Humanist
07-08-2014, 11:31 PM
^^ I still think that J1 & T were both involved in the spread of Afroasiatic, at least since one of its early stages.
The Fregel et al paper which documented the presence of J1 in pre-hispanic guanches, along with the Plaster study on the Horn favour such a scenario.

One interesting thing to note regarding T in Africa, the variety of T found in the Lemba, based on STR data, was found to be most similar to Armenian haplotypes. It was a few years ago, but I believe that was the conclusion of an analysis of the data published in Mendez et al., and public data, by a citizen scientist.

EDIT:

Found a comment I made back in 2011 that is relevant to my above comment:


The Lemba, in the haplogroup T paper by Mendez et al., displayed a high frequency of T1b. A phylotree created by another individual showed the Lemba haplotypes clustering with Armenian T1b men. The origins of their T1b paternal lines, thus, in my opinion, remain an open question.

#YoloSwag
07-08-2014, 11:44 PM
^^ I still think that J1 & T were both involved in the spread of Afroasiatic, at least since one of its early stages.
The Fregel et al paper which documented the presence of J1 in pre-hispanic guanches, along with the Plaster study on the Horn favour such a scenario.

You think the afroasiatic language family spread from the Middle East?

Agamemnon
07-10-2014, 01:02 AM
You think the afroasiatic language family spread from the Middle East?

Not necessarily so, as far as I'm concerned I think that the AA Urheimat might've been located around the Sudanese Red Sea coast.

Awale
11-19-2015, 06:15 PM
I'd say "Horners" and "Berbers" do share a lot of pre-historic ancestry. If we're going autosomal here then I often notice via analyses like ADMIXTURE at the lower Ks that Somalis, Agaws (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaw_people) (Beta Israel (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/04/the-jewishness-of-ethiopian-jews_7.html) & "Afar" samples (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2014/12/afar-samples-from-autosomal-dna-studies.html)), Habeshas, Oromos and the like will show "Maghrebi" ancestry like they do here for example:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/2yBS38NPMOIstzEjvm7aopUos0bJTXo6a59IFyB98kk=w524-h723-no

But so far most Horners don't seem part "WHG-related" but entirely "ENF" in respect to their West Eurasian ancestry (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/07/horn-africans-mixture-between-east.html) (perhaps there's some CHG-related stuff in Habeshas & Agaws who have more overt later West Eurasian influences than Somalis (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/02/cushitic-admixture-levels-somalis-as.html); further tests will hopefully tell) which is different for example from Fulanis who in analyses like the old K=8 (http://anthromadness.blogspot.ae/2015/07/revisiting-dobon-et-al-2015-fulani.html) (kinda obsolete now with CHG, EHG and so on amok but you feel me) turning up as "WHG + ENF" when Fulanis are basically West-Central Africans with Berber-related admixture.

This to me suggests that there's obviously no more recent influence from Northwest Africans in Horners like Somalis and Habeshas; instead the case is likely something similar to how many Indo-European speakers share steppe ancestry. Probably some very old ancestry tied to pre-historic AA speakers shared between us; I'd say a notable amount too.