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Kart
12-03-2018, 06:40 AM
You need to do Lukasz K36 report and get co-ordinates to use the Cochin Jew reference from Lukasz' custom calc runner

I think i've already run you using Yemen Jew a few pages back which is another proxy for Middle-Eastern ancestry
I donít have to pay for it right

bmoney
12-03-2018, 06:41 AM
I don’t have to pay for it right

You do unfortunately. But I doubt its worth it just for the Cochin Jew comparison

bmoney
12-04-2018, 12:09 AM
quoted from the other thread

LukaszM currently cannot post on the forum but he said that he will give the coordinates for all people who sent him request to the email

Give it a try and send him your Eurogenes K36 results

Kart
12-04-2018, 11:30 PM
quoted from the other thread

LukaszM currently cannot post on the forum but he said that he will give the coordinates for all people who sent him request to the email

Give it a try and send him your Eurogenes K36 results

I kind of went over my budget last month..so I think I'm good for now xD

Thomas48
12-05-2018, 05:30 AM
S-Indian 46.93
Baloch 34.17
Caucasian 9.56
NE-Euro 1.25
SE-Asian 1.78
Siberian 0.13
NE-Asian 0.76
Papuan 1.39
American 0.70
Beringian 1.11
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 2.22
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

This Syrian Christian result was posted by Rusty earlier. I’m very curious if this is a Syrian Christian of the Mar Sapor and Mar Proth merchants who came in the 9th century. The sample matches very closely to the Knanaya level of Middle Eastern ancestry.

BMG
12-05-2018, 03:36 PM
The Kerala Muslim L1c guy belongs to L-Y12419 . There is a srilankan Tamil in this line as well as few gulf Arabs and balochs. His STRs was different from Knanaya/Kollenore ones . My grandfather have different STR compared to both . While the Muslim guy have 9-14 at DYS385 the Knanaya/Kollenore have 7-16 and my maternal grandfather have 10-17 .So all three of us might potentially belong to different subclades .

vishankar
12-05-2018, 03:53 PM
just an update folks... the family tree dna 49 dollar family finder sale extends till 31st december with 5 dollar / 10 dollar discounts to boot!

Kart
12-05-2018, 03:58 PM
just an update folks... the family tree dna 49 dollar family finder sale extends till 31st december with 5 dollar / 10 dollar discounts to boot!

I'm trying to get my Christian friend to buy a kit..his cheap ass won't buy one :| I'm not buying one for him either xD

Rustyshakelford
12-05-2018, 06:42 PM
The Kerala Muslim L1c guy belongs to L-Y12419 . There is a srilankan Tamil in this line as well as few gulf Arabs and balochs. His STRs was different from Knanaya/Kollenore ones . My grandfather have different STR compared to both . While the Muslim guy have 9-14 at DYS385 the Knanaya/Kollenore have 7-16 and my maternal grandfather have 10-17 .So all three of us might potentially belong to different subclades .

Mines currently processing So if it’s L1c, and there’s a good chance it will be, we can use it as a proxy.. BMG do you know how the ezhava L1c STRs compare?

Kart
12-09-2018, 02:43 AM
Hey Rusty , bmoney, vishankar, and BMG

Can can I see your dna.land results? Thanks!

Mandoos
12-09-2018, 06:41 AM
lol im not a "researcher" im here for the same reasons you or any other user is. I don't see how a light/dark metaphor can be construed as colorism or racial undertones. I would admit that modern day ME christians like assyrians and copts are somewhat nationalistic but this is understandable given their history of persecution. I think this whole discussion was triggered by thomas's claim that knanaya endogamy is born of a desire to preserve "Middle eastern lineage". i would disagree with that, i dont think its a conscious attempt to preserve ME ancestry at all. if this were the case then marrying a full blown ethnic syrian christian from syria/iraq would be an acceptable practice, but its not, in fact the results would be the exact same as marrying from any other non-knanaya group.

in terms of the hegemonic influence of Abrahamic faiths, i would argue that Christianity in Kerala has traditionally shown a remarkable degree of syncretism with the broader Hindu culture and religion. Prior to European contact the churches resembled Hindu temples and lots of broad Hindu/like social customs were observed. Even the knanaya wedding rituals that Thomas described are probably just old Dravidian customs that have been given a biblical spin. The root of the faith may be from abroad but its had very ancient presence in Kerala and has thus developed its own indigenous characteristics in line with the cultural/social context of kerala, this includes both the good and the bad(caste).

whatever attempts made to dissociate from hinduism is a more recent phenomena and is a product of colonial influence due to contact with the Portuguese. Speaking of which, what would be your evaluation of them? considering that at one end they deepened the division between Christianity and Hinduism while at the same time tried to (unsucessfully) make the church more open to lower caste converts.

Just saw your edited post. The colonialists were partially responsible for this hegemony, but for the same reasons their original religions took control over them. The Iberian inquisitions were a reaction against the way Jews infiltrated their sphere of power in their homelands, and caused the divisions in Kerala as well. Many of the inquisitors' ancestors were secretly forced converts from Judaism, the detachment from which explains their overly orthodox approach to religion, which can develop ethnocentric views.

The spirituality and tolerant culture of Keralites in adopting Christianity (perhaps influenced by buddhism as were the syrian missionaries on the silk route) is what allowed them to create syncretism between a Christian faith and hindu culture, which contradicts a metaphorical interpretation of that Ephrem verse. In fact they had to be since it was economically/socially advantageous to do so on their end.

What I observed in more traditional "Syriac" denominations is that there is an indirect hegemonic influence when people try to identify themselves with what makes them different. But what is the point of that when this so called "identity" is what divides them? The orthodox paathragis, who divisively claim a Syrian bishop as their patriarch, have developed an obsession with western Syriac hymns/masses/hierarchical systems without much deeper understanding of their universal meanings, and actively sought to discard ancient hymns with more native origins. If I attend mass at an orthodox church nowadays the long droning sounds nothing like the raga-based melodies I've been familiar with in the past.

You don't see such failed attempts to rewrite history and culture in non-Syriac denominations. I believe the nature of persecuted religions is an intrinsically divisive one, and the cultural practices which evolve from them are a product of the bad forces which ousted them, unless their recipients are benefactors affiliated with more tolerant, abstract belief systems. You can't divide/isolate its origin in the form of racially driven endogamy or unnatural customs without digging a bigger hole.

Rustyshakelford
12-09-2018, 08:00 PM
Just saw your edited post. The colonialists were partially responsible for this hegemony, but for the same reasons their original religions took control over them. The Iberian inquisitions were a reaction against the way Jews infiltrated their sphere of power in their homelands, and caused the divisions in Kerala as well. Many of the inquisitors' ancestors were secretly forced converts from Judaism, the detachment from which explains their overly orthodox approach to religion, which can develop ethnocentric views.

The spirituality and tolerant culture of Keralites in adopting Christianity (perhaps influenced by buddhism as were the syrian missionaries on the silk route) is what allowed them to create syncretism between a Christian faith and hindu culture, which contradicts a metaphorical interpretation of that Ephrem verse. In fact they had to be since it was economically/socially advantageous to do so on their end.

What I observed in more traditional "Syriac" denominations is that there is an indirect hegemonic influence when people try to identify themselves with what makes them different. But what is the point of that when this so called "identity" is what divides them? The orthodox paathragis, who divisively claim a Syrian bishop as their patriarch, have developed an obsession with western Syriac hymns/masses/hierarchical systems without much deeper understanding of their universal meanings, and actively sought to discard ancient hymns with more native origins. If I attend mass at an orthodox church nowadays the long droning sounds nothing like the raga-based melodies I've been familiar with in the past.

You don't see such failed attempts to rewrite history and culture in non-Syriac denominations. I believe the nature of persecuted religions is an intrinsically divisive one, and the cultural practices which evolve from them are a product of the bad forces which ousted them, unless their recipients are benefactors affiliated with more tolerant, abstract belief systems. You can't divide/isolate its origin in the form of racially driven endogamy or unnatural customs without digging a bigger hole.

I'm not sure what your trying to get at here but from your previouse posts it seems you have a general gripe with syrian christians in kerala emphasizing syriac-language based relgiouse culture which you feel is alien to us given that we are not ethnically "syrian". But like i said syriac christianity in kerala developed relatively independently from its source in the ME, since there was never a permanent hierarchy/resident prelate here. Because of this, our religion is heavily intertwined with local non-vedic hindu culture and has been since remote times so i fail to see how these two elements can be mutually exclusive. Even nowadays in certain churches in Kerala they do things like sacrifice of chickens during church feasts (palli perunaal), such practices are decidedly local in origin, where else have you heard of chickens being sacrificed at a christian church? The fact that such practices have survived to the present day indicates that whatever "hegmonic" influence these syrian religious authorities had must have been pretty weak.

regarding the orthodox church and its liturgicaal changes i cant comment on that since im catholic and i dont know much about the west syriac rite or its development in kerala. I know the marthoma church was the first to adopt malayalam as a liturgical language but for catholics this change only came in the 1960s following the second vatican council. even during my dads childhood mass was still done in syriac and there were no malayalam hymns. theres been a recent push to restore the liturgy to its orginal form and the syro malabar church has done a decent job of doing so. The syriac rite is basically almost native to kerala since its existed here since antiquity and our ancestors did there part in preserving it so i think we have an equally strong claim to it as any ME christian. I dont see the restoration of syriac liturgical practices as being a capitulation to foreign elements nor a repudiation of native culture, because as i have said these two things are not mutually exclusive. I dont see this as an attempt to "rewrite history and culture", its more so an attempt to rediscover the original practices unadultered by european colonial influence.

non-syriac denominations are the direct result of european colonialism so im not sure why you think so highly of them. isnt their adoption of european names,attire and modes of worship the epitome of cultural hegemony?

Mandoos
12-10-2018, 12:56 AM
I'm not sure what your trying to get at here but from your previouse posts it seems you have a general gripe with syrian christians in kerala emphasizing syriac-language based relgiouse culture which you feel is alien to us given that we are not ethnically "syrian". But like i said syriac christianity in kerala developed relatively independently from its source in the ME, since there was never a permanent hierarchy/resident prelate here. Because of this, our religion is heavily intertwined with local non-vedic hindu culture and has been since remote times so i fail to see how these two elements can be mutually exclusive. Even nowadays in certain churches in Kerala they do things like sacrifice of chickens during church feasts (palli perunaal), such practices are decidedly local in origin, where else have you heard of chickens being sacrificed at a christian church? The fact that such practices have survived to the present day indicates that whatever "hegmonic" influence these syrian religious authorities had must have been pretty weak.

regarding the orthodox church and its liturgicaal changes i cant comment on that since im catholic and i dont know much about the west syriac rite or its development in kerala. I know the marthoma church was the first to adopt malayalam as a liturgical language but for catholics this change only came in the 1960s following the second vatican council. even during my dads childhood mass was still done in syriac and there were no malayalam hymns. theres been a recent push to restore the liturgy to its orginal form and the syro malabar church has done a decent job of doing so. The syriac rite is basically almost native to kerala since its existed here since antiquity and our ancestors did there part in preserving it so i think we have an equally strong claim to it as any ME christian. I dont see the restoration of syriac liturgical practices as being a capitulation to foreign elements nor a repudiation of native culture, because as i have said these two things are not mutually exclusive. I dont see this as an attempt to "rewrite history and culture", its more so an attempt to rediscover the original practices unadultered by european colonial influence.

non-syriac denominations are the direct result of european colonialism so im not sure why you think so highly of them. isnt their adoption of european names,attire and modes of worship the epitome of cultural hegemony?

I don't think highly of any religion or sect tbh which is probably why you don't understand my point. It is considered politically correct in India to bark back at european colonial influence without looking deep enough. But what irks me is that people use the facade of belonging to a casteless Abrahamic religion to participate in ethnocentric, caste-like rituals. You see this in countless instances in Islamic practice around the country. It's ridiculous that people can't even understand the Quran without learning Arabic instead of having it translated. Even more ridiculous that people couldn't pray or worship in their native tongue in churches. Why would you separate yourself from vedic cultural practices and be proud of non-vedic ones when the syriac practices are just as xenophobic?

Even the Bible wasn't translated to Malayalam in Kerala until some european missionaries came to help out. My family as well as our entire community always gossip about protestant or latin christian denominations as if they should be ashamed of adopting colonialism. But rarely do you see these churches participate in pompous rituals or claim some foreign culture as their own. The divide between their native heritage and faith is clear cut and not riddled with dubious claims.

I dont have a problem when Syrian churches want to keep their old practices. It's just another inevitable aspect of religion. However there is this fantastical obsession with holding onto semitic cultural practices when they have little relevance now. And trying to claim a foreign heritage to distinguish yourself is a well known disease amongst Indians.

vishankar
12-10-2018, 03:42 AM
Hey Rusty , bmoney, vishankar, and BMG

Can can I see your dna.land results? Thanks!

here it is.....Kart, what is the north west european in your DNA land signify? I mean which populations are considered?...27614

Rustyshakelford
12-10-2018, 05:41 AM
I don't think highly of any religion or sect tbh which is probably why you don't understand my point. It is considered politically correct in India to bark back at european colonial influence without looking deep enough. But what irks me is that people use the facade of belonging to a casteless Abrahamic religion to participate in ethnocentric, caste-like rituals. You see this in countless instances in Islamic practice around the country. It's ridiculous that people can't even understand the Quran without learning Arabic instead of having it translated. Even more ridiculous that people couldn't pray or worship in their native tongue in churches. Why would you separate yourself from vedic cultural practices and be proud of non-vedic ones when the syriac practices are just as xenophobic?

Even the Bible wasn't translated to Malayalam in Kerala until some european missionaries came to help out. My family as well as our entire community always gossip about protestant or latin christian denominations as if they should be ashamed of adopting colonialism. But rarely do you see these churches participate in pompous rituals or claim some foreign culture as their own. The divide between their native heritage and faith is clear cut and not riddled with dubious claims.

I dont have a problem when Syrian churches want to keep their old practices. It's just another inevitable aspect of religion. However there is this fantastical obsession with holding onto semitic cultural practices when they have little relevance now. And trying to claim a foreign heritage to distinguish yourself is a well known disease amongst Indians.

What exactly are these semetic cultural practices and "pompouse" rituals you speak of? just to clarify i dont have any issue with latin catholics or members of protestant denominations adopting western names/ attire or cultural practices even. its none of my business and i dont feel a need to police them for it, i only brought it up since you seem to hold syrian christians to a different standard. The non-syrian denominations openly westernize themselves yet you seem to have no problem with this, is this because you think western religion/culture is not ethnocentric or are you giving these groups more leeway since they were historically marginalized? You'll find plenty of them who have names like theadore, william, franklin, etc. By contrast how many syrian christians have you met with names like youkhana, iskander, or yakub? i havent met any but i do know people with with the malayalam versions: onachan, chandy, and chacko. of course most people nowadays dont have these names but even still ive found that pan-indian names like rahul or akhil are more popular amongst syrian christians than non-syrians who seem to have a stronger preferance for western sounding names, how would you explain this phenomena? why is this given a pass while syrian christians attempting to restore ancient liturgical practices is seen as some trecherouse act meant to mimick "foreigners"?

RE: Bibles
historically bibles were seldom used, even syriac bibles were exceedingly rare. this is because most people were illiterate including the native clergy. it was much easier for europeans to transcribe and to translate these texts since they were literate and had acess to printing presses. most biblical stories were passed on via folk songs, these are sung even today at festive occasions like weddings when families gather.

RE: arabic and the quran
I dont think theres anything ridiculouse about indian muslims learning arabic. having knowledge of arabic is helpful for them if they're trying to read their religiouse texts and other primary sources. if it helps them practice their faith i dont feel a need to chide them for it. i just dont see how the act of learning arabic or syriac is by itself a betrayal of native languages or culture. showing reverance for these languages isnt the same as fetishizing arabs or assyrians; not denying that these tendencies exist but i think your frustration is misdirected and you're taking a scorched earth approach here.

in regards to casteism i dont think any group is free of guilt. even the early buddhist and jain settlers of kerala cleared the valleys and drove the animist/ancestor worshiping tribals into the mountains. if members of a supposedly "philosophical"(your words) religion are capable of commiting injustices like this its not surprising that others do so as well.

BMG
12-10-2018, 03:37 PM
in regards to casteism i dont think any group is free of guilt. even the early buddhist and jain settlers of kerala cleared the valleys and drove the animist/ancestor worshiping tribals into the mountains. if members of a supposedly "philosophical"(your words) religion are capable of commiting injustices like this its not surprising that others do so as well.

I don't think jains have nothing to do with the marginalisation of tribals . It is the first farmers who started arriving around 4000-5000 years ago who marginalised the tribals and no there was no injustice as such . It is just that more technologically advanced used it to their advantage which was a common phenomenon in the world during that period . So the tribals possibly retreated to forests which was difficult to access .
The spread of Jainism and Buddhism is more of a cultural influence than violent attacks . Jain monks or teacher assimilated into the existing genepool .

vishankar
12-10-2018, 04:32 PM
I don't think jains have nothing to do with the marginalisation of tribals . It is the first farmers who started arriving around 4000-5000 years ago who marginalised the tribals and no there was no injustice as such . It is just that more technologically advanced used it to their advantage which was a common phenomenon in the world during that period . So the tribals possibly retreated to forests which was difficult to access .and
The spread of Jainism and Buddhism is more of a cultural influence than violent attacks . Jain monks or teacher assimilated into the existing genepool .


yeah...agreed ..jainism and buddhism were peaceful sects!..In kerala Jainism was hoewver absorbed by the nairs and buddhism by the ezhavas...I quote this from P C alexanders-Buddhism in Kerala

Kart
12-10-2018, 08:27 PM
here it is.....Kart, what is the north west european in your DNA land signify? I mean which populations are considered?...27614

Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands

It's just noise/inaccurate. If I had any English ancestry, my parents wouldn't have shut up about it.

Rustyshakelford
12-10-2018, 11:34 PM
I don't think jains have nothing to do with the marginalisation of tribals . It is the first farmers who started arriving around 4000-5000 years ago who marginalised the tribals and no there was no injustice as such . It is just that more technologically advanced used it to their advantage which was a common phenomenon in the world during that period . So the tribals possibly retreated to forests which was difficult to access .
The spread of Jainism and Buddhism is more of a cultural influence than violent attacks . Jain monks or teacher assimilated into the existing genepool .

Yep that’s my mistake I’m not all that familiar with Kerals ancient history, it seems tribals have been marginalized for far longer than I had thought. I was just trying to convey that even in the presence of “enlightened” religion/ideology people are still capable of doing wrong on others not that Buddhism itself was directly responsible for it.

bmoney
12-11-2018, 07:54 AM
The way I think it went down all over South Asia

- Original tribals 25% Iran n and 75% aasi were hunter gatherers
- Farmers displaced from climate change moved away from the NW in all directions south and east, imposed a caste system to prevent integration of tribals and displaced them from arable land into inland unfarmable land
- Indo Aryans arrived, integrating the pre-existing pop of the northern half of the subcontinent and imposing themselves on top of the pre-existing caste system. Brahmins from this mixed zone arrived south but werenít successful at converting the Dravidian society into Indo-Aryan here

Kart
12-11-2018, 03:24 PM
The way I think it went down all over South Asia

- Original tribals 25% Iran n and 75% aasi were hunter gatherers
- Farmers displaced from climate change moved away from the NW in all directions south and east, imposed a caste system to prevent integration of tribals and displaced them from arable land into inland unfarmable land
- Indo Aryans arrived, integrating the pre-existing pop of the northern half of the subcontinent and imposing themselves on top of the pre-existing caste system. Brahmins from this mixed zone arrived south but weren’t successful at converting the Dravidian society into Indo-Aryan here

What do you mean convert into Indo-Aryan?

bmoney
12-11-2018, 04:37 PM
What do you mean convert into Indo-Aryan?

Remove Dravidian culture and convert society into a Gangetic Aryan culture revolving around Brahmin and upper caste patronage

I guess their numbers were too small, and northern South Asia also had a large patrilineal turnover via z93 males which potentiated the cultural turnover. Also Dravidian kingdoms were well established in the south and too far from the repeat Central Asian migrations/invasions the North faced

The Brahmins did successfully manage to heavily Sanskritise the western Chera Tamil dialect and create Malayalam however

vishankar
12-11-2018, 05:51 PM
the dravidian speakers- genetically - IRAN NEOLITHIC + AASi right?

Kart
12-11-2018, 07:33 PM
Remove Dravidian culture and convert society into a Gangetic Aryan culture revolving around Brahmin and upper caste patronage

I guess their numbers were too small, and northern South Asia also had a large patrilineal turnover via z93 males which potentiated the cultural turnover. Also Dravidian kingdoms were well established in the south and too far from the repeat Central Asian migrations/invasions the North faced

The Brahmins did successfully manage to heavily Sanskritise the western Chera Tamil dialect and create Malayalam however

I wonder whaat the old "Malayalam" sounded like

Thomas48
12-12-2018, 03:43 AM
I wonder whaat the old "Malayalam" sounded like

Some of the older Knanaya folk songs retain Malayalam from the 15th/16th century and possibly before. I'm decent in Malayalam but I can only make out a few lines of these kind of songs. For example the song "Kanni Umma" or "Virgin Mary", is a mixture of Tamil, Syriac, and "Old Malayalam".

Kanni Umma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPtX2WzW2o

Possibly around the same age or even older are the songs of Margam Kali, danced today by all the Syrian Christians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeJDgJMbym0

Kart
12-12-2018, 05:07 AM
By the way you guys, I ordered ancestryDNA kits for my parents and sister. :D So excited..especially to find out my dad's y-haplogroup.

Kart
12-12-2018, 05:08 AM
Some of the older Knanaya folk songs retain Malayalam from the 15th/16th century and possibly before. I'm decent in Malayalam but I can only make out a few lines of these kind of songs. For example the song "Kanni Umma" or "Virgin Mary", is a mixture of Tamil, Syriac, and "Old Malayalam".

Kanni Umma:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPtX2WzW2o

Possibly around the same age or even older are the songs of Margam Kali, danced today by all the Syrian Christians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeJDgJMbym0


It's hard to understand the words in those two songs lol

bmoney
12-12-2018, 07:52 AM
the dravidian speakers- genetically - IRAN NEOLITHIC + AASi right?

Thats my guess. Something resembling the Indus periphery component in Narasimhans paper

bmoney
12-12-2018, 07:53 AM
By the way you guys, I ordered ancestryDNA kits for my parents and sister. :D So excited..especially to find out my dad's y-haplogroup.


My bet is either L1a1 or R1a1

2nd is R2

bmoney
12-12-2018, 07:54 AM
I wonder whaat the old "Malayalam" sounded like

Think of all Sanskrit stripped out

Structurally it would be similar given the south Dravidian structure hasn’t changed much post-Brahmin

Definitely no ‘Namaskaram’

aaronbee2010
12-12-2018, 09:26 AM
My bet is either L1a1 or R1a1

2nd is R2

I think J2 is more likely than R2 otherwise I agree

Kart
12-12-2018, 12:30 PM
My bet is either L1a1 or R1a1

2nd is R2

Nice..

So Vishankar is R-M198, You're L1a1, The two kna guys are Q-M242.. Is RM198 part of R1? I'm still learning about haplogroups... Wikipedia articles don't help much lol


I think J2 is more likely than R2 otherwise I agree

Looks like J2 isn't that common in Kerala..

Kart
12-12-2018, 12:39 PM
Think of all Sanskrit stripped out

Structurally it would be similar given the south Dravidian structure hasn’t changed much post-Brahmin

Definitely no ‘Namaskaram’

"Vanakkam chetta, enthundu vishesham"( what's the dravidian word for vishesham? lol)

bmoney
12-12-2018, 01:09 PM
I think J2 is more likely than R2 otherwise I agree

The South Asian R2 + clade is relatively common in Kerala according to the ftdna Nair and Kerala pages

Not among my relatives for whatever reason though.

J2 is relatively uncommon as well according to ftdna

I say L1a because it’s common among Syrian Christians and Kart scores like one

Only R1a is correlated with Nairs from all the data I’ve seen so far

bmoney
12-12-2018, 01:10 PM
"Vanakkam chetta, enthundu vishesham"( what's the dravidian word for vishesham? lol)

What’s the Tamil word for it

bmoney
12-12-2018, 01:11 PM
Nice..

So Vishankar is R-M198, You're L1a1, The two kna guys are Q-M242.. Is RM198 part of R1? I'm still learning about haplogroups... Wikipedia articles don't help much lol



Looks like J2 isn't that common in Kerala..

Vishankar is R1a1

Are you on 23andme? You can tally your closest DNA relatives by y-hap to see what the most common y-hg is

Kart
12-12-2018, 01:21 PM
What’s the Tamil word for it

I don't know :/ My Tamil sucks.. I need subs for Tamil movies lol

Kart
12-12-2018, 01:22 PM
Vishankar is R1a1

Are you on 23andme? You can tally your closest DNA relatives by y-hap to see what the most common y-hg is

I'm not on 23andme. I used ancestry for the test.

aaronbee2010
12-12-2018, 02:10 PM
Looks like J2 isn't that common in Kerala..



The South Asian R2 + clade is relatively common in Kerala according to the ftdna Nair and Kerala pages

Not among my relatives for whatever reason though.

J2 is relatively uncommon as well according to ftdna

I say L1a because it’s common among Syrian Christians and Kart scores like one

Only R1a is correlated with Nairs from all the data I’ve seen so far

I went on FTDNA's Kerala page and J2 has 27 samples on there compared to 10 samples of R2. On the Nair page, there are 3 J2 samples versus 2 R2 samples.

Am I missing something here? R2 in Kerala doesn't seem that weak, but definitely weaker than J2.

vishankar
12-12-2018, 02:27 PM
I just received the ft dna kit for my father in law, wife, wife's aunt...now we w ill have a glimpse of north malabar vs rest of kerala!

vishankar
12-12-2018, 02:37 PM
I also ordered a y- upgrade for myself...need to know more about R-M198, from all accounts not the variety which introduced sanskrit to india- i.e z93

bmoney
12-12-2018, 02:50 PM
I went on FTDNA's Kerala page and J2 has 27 samples on there compared to 10 samples of R2. On the Nair page, there are 3 J2 samples versus 2 R2 samples.

Am I missing something here? R2 in Kerala doesn't seem that weak, but definitely weaker than J2.

Youíre not, i recalled incorrectly thanks for the correction

bmoney
12-12-2018, 02:53 PM
I just received the ft dna kit for my father in law, wife, wife's aunt...now we w ill have a glimpse of north malabar vs rest of kerala!

You mean among Nairs

Youíll need to get Thiyya and Muslim kits for a true North Kerala representation

Kart
12-12-2018, 03:13 PM
You mean among Nairs

You’ll need to get Thiyya and Muslim kits for a true North Kerala representation

I have a Thiyya, Muslim and CSI Christian sample. I'm in the process of getting permission from these people before posting anything.
:)

I guess I can post them since I have the kit numbers erased. Noone's going to identify them. Do you guys think that's ok?

Hopefully they join the forum too lol

Kart
12-12-2018, 03:27 PM
Thiyya

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 52.04
2 Baloch 33.26
3 Caucasian 6.39
4 SW-Asian 2.14
5 Siberian 1.51
6 SE-Asian 1.18
7 NE-Euro 1.08


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ap-hyderabad_harappa @ 2.333419
2 tamil_harappa @ 2.657790
3 meghawal_metspalu @ 3.786086
4 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 3.849427
5 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.118822
6 karnataka_harappa @ 4.414206
7 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 4.779593
8 lambadi_metspalu @ 4.886925
9 sourastrian_harappa @ 4.950767
10 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 5.227300
11 ap-reddy_harappa @ 5.331419
12 tharu_metspalu @ 5.596392
13 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.785740
14 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.861347
15 up_harappa @ 5.953155
16 velama_reich @ 6.270281
17 up-muslim_metspalu @ 6.423729
18 bengali_metspalu @ 6.446126
19 kerala_harappa @ 6.589505
20 bihari_harappa @ 6.605015

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ap-hyderabad_harappa +50% tamil_harappa @ 1.957653

Kart
12-12-2018, 03:42 PM
Kerala Pulaya

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 71.51
2 Baloch 19.90
3 Papuan 2.50
4 SE-Asian 2.41
5 NE-Asian 1.82


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ap-mala_xing @ 2.305058
2 mala_reich @ 2.900656
3 kurumba_reich @ 2.934695
4 tn-dalit_xing @ 3.515732
5 hakkipikki_metspalu @ 3.917698
6 north-kannadi_chaubey @ 4.186832
7 ap-madiga_xing @ 4.796766
8 madiga_reich @ 5.063845
9 tamil-vishwakarma_harappa @ 6.326530
10 bhil_reich @ 6.732222
11 sakilli_chaubey @ 7.570284
12 chenchu_reich @ 7.695997
13 chamar_metspalu @ 8.337085
14 kamsali_reich @ 9.455259
15 gond_metspalu @ 9.667124
16 satnami_reich @ 10.035358
17 chenchu_metspalu @ 10.433895
18 nihali_metspalu @ 11.615632
19 malayan_chaubey @ 11.776745
20 hallaki_reich @ 13.374877

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% malayan_behar +50% vysya_reich @ 1.953517

vishankar
12-12-2018, 04:44 PM
atta gal kart!...these are your redditt chums!:)

vishankar
12-12-2018, 04:45 PM
yup nairs right now....but there could be a wild card!( non nair/ nambiar)!

BMG
12-12-2018, 04:59 PM
Thiyya

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 52.04
2 Baloch 33.26
3 Caucasian 6.39
4 SW-Asian 2.14
5 Siberian 1.51
6 SE-Asian 1.18
7 NE-Euro 1.08


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 ap-hyderabad_harappa @ 2.333419
2 tamil_harappa @ 2.657790
3 meghawal_metspalu @ 3.786086
4 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 3.849427
5 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.118822
6 karnataka_harappa @ 4.414206
7 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 4.779593
8 lambadi_metspalu @ 4.886925
9 sourastrian_harappa @ 4.950767
10 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 5.227300
11 ap-reddy_harappa @ 5.331419
12 tharu_metspalu @ 5.596392
13 rajasthani_harappa @ 5.785740
14 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.861347
15 up_harappa @ 5.953155
16 velama_reich @ 6.270281
17 up-muslim_metspalu @ 6.423729
18 bengali_metspalu @ 6.446126
19 kerala_harappa @ 6.589505
20 bihari_harappa @ 6.605015

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ap-hyderabad_harappa +50% tamil_harappa @ 1.957653

I think somebody had already posted his results here . He has higher Caucasian+SW Asian than myself and all my grandparents .

Kart
12-12-2018, 05:05 PM
I think somebody had already posted his results here . He has higher Caucasian+SW Asian than myself and all my grandparents .

I emailed him and asked him to join the forum so we could have him get his coordinates if he's interested.. Let's see if he responds lol

I think 5-6% Caucasian is average for Malayali middle castes.

Kart
12-12-2018, 05:07 PM
atta gal kart!...these are your redditt chums!:)

Yeah I'm trying to get in touch with these guys so I could get them to join the forum lol

BMG
12-12-2018, 05:30 PM
I also ordered a y- upgrade for myself...need to know more about R-M198, from all accounts not the variety which introduced sanskrit to india- i.e z93
Z93 is subclades of M198 . All R1a tested will be R-M198 by default at ftdna since it used to be the R1a defining marker long before

bmoney
12-12-2018, 06:05 PM
I emailed him and asked him to join the forum so we could have him get his coordinates if he's interested.. Let's see if he responds lol

I think 5-6% Caucasian is average for Malayali middle castes.

This high Caucasian is interesting, not sure if itís present in other South Indians or Gujaratis

Nothing out of the ordinary in G25 though, except for the Middle Eastern ancestry in the Knanaya and some Syrian Christians.

Its probably just Iran N

parasar
12-12-2018, 06:25 PM
I went on FTDNA's Kerala page and J2 has 27 samples on there compared to 10 samples of R2. On the Nair page, there are 3 J2 samples versus 2 R2 samples.

Am I missing something here? R2 in Kerala doesn't seem that weak, but definitely weaker than J2.


I would expect the overall Kerala distribution to be quite like the Maldives. Good amount of J2 (higher than R2). Minimal J1 and E.
"We found 66 different Y-STR haplotypes in 10 Y-chromosome haplogroups, predominantly H1, J2, L, R1a1a, and R2."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3652038/bin/ajpa0151-0058-SD4.tiff

Kart
12-12-2018, 06:55 PM
Mappila Muslim

S Indian 48.05
Baloch 33.27
Caucasian 6.91
American 2.06
NE Euro 1.63
SE Asian 1.62
SW Asian 1.64



I don't have this person's kit number..so I can't look up the oracles.

bmoney
12-12-2018, 07:53 PM
Mappila Muslim

S Indian 48.05
Baloch 33.27
Caucasian 6.91
American 2.06
NE Euro 1.63
SE Asian 1.62
SW Asian 1.64



I don't have this person's kit number..so I can't look up the oracles.

Looks generic Kerala middle caste

Kart
12-12-2018, 08:03 PM
Looks generic Kerala middle caste

Most Mappilas are Thiyyas who converted. A few them have Arab ancestry from Arabi Kalyanams. and the Thangal family has recorded ancestry from Yemen.

Mandoos
12-12-2018, 08:41 PM
I emailed him and asked him to join the forum so we could have him get his coordinates if he's interested.. Let's see if he responds lol

I think 5-6% Caucasian is average for Malayali middle castes.

Looks like I have the lowest for that component at 1.6%

Kart
12-12-2018, 09:05 PM
Looks like I have the lowest for that component at 1.6%

What is your Baloch %age?

Mandoos
12-12-2018, 09:14 PM
What is your Baloch %age?

Typical around 35%

I have a bit more SE Asian, Papuan/Siberian admixture than average which may be related to higher AASI %

bmoney
12-13-2018, 05:34 AM
Typical around 35%

I have a bit more SE Asian, Papuan/Siberian admixture than average which may be related to higher AASI %

Could you post your result and oracle? (Not 4 way)

Mandoos
12-13-2018, 06:03 AM
Could you post your result and oracle? (Not 4 way)

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=28623&viewfull=1#post28623

bmoney
12-13-2018, 06:07 AM
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=28623&viewfull=1#post28623

Interesting result

Rustyshakelford
12-13-2018, 06:30 AM
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1229-Harappa-Ancestry-Project&p=28623&viewfull=1#post28623

Some European pops in the oracles, even utahn white. Never seen that before.

Mandoos
12-13-2018, 06:44 AM
Some European pops in the oracles, even utahn white. Never seen that before.

the populations are admixture based, its not very surprising. NW European/American results usually have the same NE Euro+Med+little Caucasian combo which shifts me on the plot a teensy bit

Rustyshakelford
12-13-2018, 02:15 PM
the populations are admixture based, its not very surprising. NW European/American results usually have the same NE Euro+Med+little Caucasian combo which shifts me on the plot a teensy bit

Would you mind posting your parents as well if you have them?

parasar
12-14-2018, 03:25 PM
Also adding the Christian Konkanis from lolipop

ERR445247 R-M17+ Z93+ Y40+ Y37+...

Is this a confirmed Christian from Konkan from Goa area? (in large sense the full west coast is Konkan, but in normal parlance it the Goa region)
We have a Kerala Christian on the Y61616 line with him.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y61616/

BMG
12-14-2018, 05:54 PM
Is this a confirmed Christian from Konkan from Goa area? (in large sense the full west coast is Konkan, but in normal parlance it the Goa region)
We have a Kerala Christian on the Y61616 line with him.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y61616/
He is a Konkani speaking Christian as per their info . The other Kerala Christian sample is from my area .

Kart
12-15-2018, 01:23 PM
I was able to get the Redditor's kit number and these are his Oracles

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 70.09
2 Baloch 22.86
3 SE-Asian 2.38
4 Papuan 2.29
5 NE-Asian 1.85



Using 1 population approximation:
1 madiga_reich @ 2.329324
2 ap-madiga_xing @ 2.480107
3 hakkipikki_metspalu @ 3.739069
4 tamil-vishwakarma_harappa @ 3.798113
5 ap-mala_xing @ 3.857196
6 tn-dalit_xing @ 3.955733
7 kurumba_reich @ 4.118568
8 mala_reich @ 4.355988
9 north-kannadi_chaubey @ 4.413782
10 bhil_reich @ 4.446311
11 sakilli_chaubey @ 4.500665
12 chamar_metspalu @ 5.622535
13 kamsali_reich @ 6.459639
14 chenchu_metspalu @ 8.115825
15 satnami_reich @ 9.163383
16 chenchu_reich @ 9.418080
17 gond_metspalu @ 10.264456
18 hallaki_reich @ 10.599273
19 piramalai-kallar_metspalu @ 10.980266
20 vysya_reich @ 11.034164

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ap-mala_xing +50% sakilli_chaubey @ 1.811351

bmoney
12-16-2018, 01:47 PM
I was able to get the Redditor's kit number and these are his Oracles

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 70.09
2 Baloch 22.86
3 SE-Asian 2.38
4 Papuan 2.29
5 NE-Asian 1.85



Using 1 population approximation:
1 madiga_reich @ 2.329324
2 ap-madiga_xing @ 2.480107
3 hakkipikki_metspalu @ 3.739069
4 tamil-vishwakarma_harappa @ 3.798113
5 ap-mala_xing @ 3.857196
6 tn-dalit_xing @ 3.955733
7 kurumba_reich @ 4.118568
8 mala_reich @ 4.355988
9 north-kannadi_chaubey @ 4.413782
10 bhil_reich @ 4.446311
11 sakilli_chaubey @ 4.500665
12 chamar_metspalu @ 5.622535
13 kamsali_reich @ 6.459639
14 chenchu_metspalu @ 8.115825
15 satnami_reich @ 9.163383
16 chenchu_reich @ 9.418080
17 gond_metspalu @ 10.264456
18 hallaki_reich @ 10.599273
19 piramalai-kallar_metspalu @ 10.980266
20 vysya_reich @ 11.034164

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ap-mala_xing +50% sakilli_chaubey @ 1.811351

Wow. This sample is almost an unchanged ASI from Narasimhan 25% Iran n 75% AASI

What community?

vishankar
12-16-2018, 02:02 PM
hi everybody....pulaya i think... right kart?

vishankar
12-16-2018, 05:08 PM
sometimes I feel part of the history lessons we learned in school, were incorrect, but only in part- like dravidians came from mediterranean lands( lycia etc ... the manorama yearbook i am sure still gives this piece of info!)... or the indologist lokmanya tilaks - artic home of the aryans....!...genetics has been able to settle the homeland issues I feel....!

Kart
12-16-2018, 10:44 PM
Wow. This sample is almost an unchanged ASI from Narasimhan 25% Iran n 75% AASI

What community?

He was born and raised in Australia so he said all he knows is that their family converted to Christianity a long time ago and that heís not sure about what caste they were when they used to be Hindus. I think he talked to his parents and they werenít sure either.

But definitely looks similar to the other Pulaya sample like vishankar said.

26284729292
12-17-2018, 05:05 AM
He was born and raised in Australia so he said all he knows is that their family converted to Christianity a long time ago and that he’s not sure about what caste they were when they used to be Hindus. I think he talked to his parents and they weren’t sure either.

But definitely looks similar to the other Pulaya sample like vishankar said.

Can you link the reddit post?

Also @bmoney, he's not perfectly AASI, because ASI itself in harappa is 75% AASI, 25% iran N. Which makes the most sense. I.e. I am 47% SI on harappa and 34-35% AASI on nmonte when we tried to model it, which would fit this notion.

He scores perfectly like our perceived notion of a "dravidian agriculturist" who are likely intermediaries between paniya (90+% ASI on harappa) and IVC type descended groups (about 50-60% ASI on harappa). If he's not originally tribal, it would be nice if he could shed any social insights he's aware of, as it may give us more knowledge into the ethnogenesis of the region.

These differences are not captured as well on harappa as they are on nmonte. In particular, there may be some element of the baloch/south indian that may be overlapping. Example given that one member scores only 6% higher south indian than me on harappa, but scored 8% higher modeled AASI, which would correlate to closer to 11-12% higher SI on harappa. For which there could be a few explanations:

1.Baloch and South Indian overlap in terms of components.
2. Amount of snp overlap with harappa (differences in kit #).

I will post more in the general nmonte thread in evaluating what Iran_N exactly is and how our perspective on how much of it has depends on the ancients we use to model it (and it's overlap with other groups like CHG). Seeing as it comprises such a large percentage of south asian genetics, I figured we could try to tease out differences in it/model SISBA3 to tease out an Iran_N progenitor. Perhaps even make a "stimulated Iran_N" like our stimulated AASI.

bmoney
12-17-2018, 12:05 PM
Can you link the reddit post?

Also @bmoney, he's not perfectly AASI, because ASI itself in harappa is 75% AASI, 25% iran N. Which makes the most sense. I.e. I am 47% SI on harappa and 34-35% AASI on nmonte when we tried to model it, which would fit this notion.

He scores perfectly like our perceived notion of a "dravidian agriculturist" who are likely intermediaries between paniya (90+% ASI on harappa) and IVC type descended groups (about 50-60% ASI on harappa). If he's not originally tribal, it would be nice if he could shed any social insights he's aware of, as it may give us more knowledge into the ethnogenesis of the region.

These differences are not captured as well on harappa as they are on nmonte. In particular, there may be some element of the baloch/south indian that may be overlapping. Example given that one member scores only 6% higher south indian than me on harappa, but scored 8% higher modeled AASI, which would correlate to closer to 11-12% higher SI on harappa. For which there could be a few explanations:

1.Baloch and South Indian overlap in terms of components.
2. Amount of snp overlap with harappa (differences in kit #).

I will post more in the general nmonte thread in evaluating what Iran_N exactly is and how our perspective on how much of it has depends on the ancients we use to model it (and it's overlap with other groups like CHG). Seeing as it comprises such a large percentage of south asian genetics, I figured we could try to tease out differences in it/model SISBA3 to tease out an Iran_N progenitor. Perhaps even make a "stimulated Iran_N" like our stimulated AASI.

You misunderstood my post

Also he doesn’t fit the Dravidian agriculturalist profile at all, but clearly fits the pre agriculturist tribal profile. Dravidian agriculturist in my opinion is closer to the IVCp component in Narasimhan peaking in Gujarati Patels

ASI in Narasimhan is approx 25% Iran N and 75% AASI as I stated in my post

And yes HAP ‘South Indian’ does not correspond 1:1 to aasi id say it’s approx 70-75% AASI assuming AASI by Traject is accurate hence I said ‘Almost’

Could you show me the example of higher AASI on G25 and lower ‘South Indian’ on HAP? I’d be interested in seeing this.

HAP works by assigning markers to populations where they peak among samples he’s collected, and it’s not a statement on origin. It’s possible that certain Iran N components peak in modern South Indians among worldwide pops

And finally we don’t need a simulated Iran N component. Ganj Dareh (pure Iran N) exists in G25

Kart
12-17-2018, 01:44 PM
Can you link the reddit post?

Also @bmoney, he's not perfectly AASI, because ASI itself in harappa is 75% AASI, 25% iran N. Which makes the most sense. I.e. I am 47% SI on harappa and 34-35% AASI on nmonte when we tried to model it, which would fit this notion.

He scores perfectly like our perceived notion of a "dravidian agriculturist" who are likely intermediaries between paniya (90+% ASI on harappa) and IVC type descended groups (about 50-60% ASI on harappa). If he's not originally tribal, it would be nice if he could shed any social insights he's aware of, as it may give us more knowledge into the ethnogenesis of the region.

These differences are not captured as well on harappa as they are on nmonte. In particular, there may be some element of the baloch/south indian that may be overlapping. Example given that one member scores only 6% higher south indian than me on harappa, but scored 8% higher modeled AASI, which would correlate to closer to 11-12% higher SI on harappa. For which there could be a few explanations:

1.Baloch and South Indian overlap in terms of components.
2. Amount of snp overlap with harappa (differences in kit #).

I will post more in the general nmonte thread in evaluating what Iran_N exactly is and how our perspective on how much of it has depends on the ancients we use to model it (and it's overlap with other groups like CHG). Seeing as it comprises such a large percentage of south asian genetics, I figured we could try to tease out differences in it/model SISBA3 to tease out an Iran_N progenitor. Perhaps even make a "stimulated Iran_N" like our stimulated AASI.

Unfortunately it wasn't a post. I posted a thread with Harappa's admixture of different reddit users and he messaged me asking to include his also. So our interaction was through reddit PM. I could ask him again if he knows anything about his background.

26284729292
12-18-2018, 05:45 AM
You misunderstood my post

Also he doesn’t fit the Dravidian agriculturalist profile at all, but clearly fits the pre agriculturist tribal profile. Dravidian agriculturist in my opinion is closer to the IVCp component in Narasimhan peaking in Gujarati Patels

ASI in Narasimhan is approx 25% Iran N and 75% AASI as I stated in my post

And yes HAP ‘South Indian’ does not correspond 1:1 to aasi id say it’s approx 70-75% AASI assuming AASI by Traject is accurate hence I said ‘Almost’

Could you show me the example of higher AASI on G25 and lower ‘South Indian’ on HAP? I’d be interested in seeing this.

HAP works by assigning markers to populations where they peak among samples he’s collected, and it’s not a statement on origin. It’s possible that certain Iran N components peak in modern South Indians among worldwide pops

And finally we don’t need a simulated Iran N component. Ganj Dareh (pure Iran N) exists in G25

Is ganj dareh considered pure iran_N? Is gonur representing pure BMAC in this case?

Kart
12-18-2018, 11:59 AM
That redditor wants to join anthrogenica but registrations aren't open. Is there a way for me to send an invitation link or something? :/

bmoney
12-18-2018, 12:09 PM
That redditor wants to join anthrogenica but registrations aren't open. Is there a way for me to send an invitation link or something? :/

That would be awesome, he should be able to join can you PM Khana?

bmoney
12-18-2018, 12:10 PM
Is ganj dareh considered pure iran_N? Is gonur representing pure BMAC in this case?


Yep Ganj Dareh is the Iran n sample

Gonur is one of the BMAC site samples but samples like Parkhai gonur outlier etc show some variation

Kart
12-19-2018, 05:17 PM
That would be awesome, he should be able to join can you PM Khana?

Khana said they closed it to prevent a banned user from re-registering. I think I know who it is lol

Kart
12-19-2018, 10:07 PM
I know this is a y-haplogroup section but I have a question regarding mDNA. What do the numbers after the letters represent? For example, I see a lot of people with M30.. but I'm M3d1. What's the difference?

Judith
12-19-2018, 10:25 PM
I know this is a y-haplogroup section but I have a question regarding mDNA. What do the numbers after the letters represent? For example, I see a lot of people with M30.. but I'm M3d1. What's the difference?

The analysis works out the most-likely connection of people by which mutations they have. You have the one which defines M and then the next level analysis you were in the group of the third next one found. There is no connection between M3 and M30, the last had the 30th mutation found within M.
This continues alternating between letters and numbers so your d means the 4th one found under M3. More people must have M3 than M30 since there have been enough results for a deeper analysis.
Y dna has a similar naming system but it mutates faster so the long names confuse everyone too much and people just use the key mutation instead.

Kart
12-19-2018, 10:34 PM
The analysis works out the most-likely connection of people by which mutations they have. You have the one which defines M and then the next level analysis you were in the group of the third next one found. There is no connection between M3 and M30, the last had the 30th mutation found within M.
This continues alternating between letters and numbers so your d means the 4th one found under M3. More people must have M3 than M30 since there have been enough results for a deeper analysis.
Y dna has a similar naming system but it mutates faster so the long names confuse everyone too much and people just use the key mutation instead.

Thank you! that's really cool :)

BMG
12-21-2018, 11:15 AM
I know this is a y-haplogroup section but I have a question regarding mDNA. What do the numbers after the letters represent? For example, I see a lot of people with M30.. but I'm M3d1. What's the difference?
If you are tested with 23andme can you upload to james lick tool and paste the results here . There are many syrian christians who are M3 . I want to know if you are similar to them .

Kart
12-21-2018, 11:37 AM
If you are tested with 23andme can you upload to james lick tool and paste the results here . There are many syrian christians who are M3 . I want to know if you are similar to them .

I tested with ancestry :/

vishankar
12-21-2018, 02:45 PM
what about mt dna U1 .....thoughts on this mitochondrial haplogp?...many christians seem to have this too...

vishankar
12-21-2018, 02:47 PM
I hit a Jackpot guys and gals....4 ftdna kits for my pa in law, wife, wife's eleyamma( aunt) ... and a thiyya lady!:)

vishankar
12-21-2018, 02:47 PM
We were lamenting about lack of thiyyas... we may have some info shortly!

Kart
12-21-2018, 05:02 PM
I hit a Jackpot guys and gals....4 ftdna kits for my pa in law, wife, wife's eleyamma( aunt) ... and a thiyya lady!:)

awesome!!! :D

parasar
12-21-2018, 05:14 PM
Is ganj dareh considered pure iran_N? Is gonur representing pure BMAC in this case?

There is nothing like a pure Iran_Neolithic. We can use any Iran Neolithic sample or a mix to designate Iran_Neolithic.
Similar situation to ANE=MA1.

"the Mesolithic of Iran that shares more alleles with these eastern European groups than the Neolithic. Tentatively, this might suggest that the pre Neolithic population of Iran had an affinity to the EHG/Ancient North Eurasians that was diluted during the Neolithic, although the lack of negative f4-statistics does not allow us to discern what is the source of this dilution. Alternatively, there was no dilution, but the Neolithic of Iran was descended from an unsampled Mesolithic population."

BMG
12-22-2018, 03:55 AM
From the spread sheet shared by thekhan in another thread i have checked for exact HVS-1 matches for my paternal grandparents

Paternal Grandfather 's mtdna is found in a tamilnadu muslim and a maratha




State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
C65
North India
HV2a2
217-325


Maharashtra
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
Maratha-MRT4
West India
HV2a2
217-325


Punjab
Caste
Sikh
Indo-European
Sikh9451
North India
HV2a2
217-325


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
TDB15
South India
HV2a2
217-325



Paternal Grandmother have a match from kerala too . Again another tamilnadu muslim and a kapu from andhra pradesh . From Geno 2.0 i know one GSB having this mtdna . As far i know J1b1a1 reached south asia along with IE migrations . It is interesting to know the other south indians sharing this mtdna



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
Kapu-KTK23
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarat33
West India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarati-GJ34
West India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM48
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Punjab
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
Brahmin PBR68
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
TDB86
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B195
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B30
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B51
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
C145
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261

BMG
12-22-2018, 04:40 AM
Few others west eurasian mtdna from the study from kerala

H103



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Andhra Pradesh
Tribe


Dravidian
PardhanW30
South India
H103
51


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
Re99
South India
H103
51


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
VN01
South India
H103
51


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
VN05
South India
H103
51


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin12
South India
H103
51


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Muslim
Dravidian
NAT13
South India
H103
51



U1a1c4



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Maharashtra
Tribe


Indo-European
T03
West India
U1a1c4
249-258


Maharashtra
Tribe


Indo-European
T50
West India
U1a1c4
249-258


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
AK11
South India
U1a1c4
92-182C-183C-249


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
AK30
South India
U1a1c4
92-182C-183C-249


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
ARA30
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
ARA9
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
ERI103
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Andhra Pradesh


Muslim
Dravidian
IR43
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
KAM17
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
KAS14
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Tribe


Dravidian
Mulla Krumba30
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Tribe


Dravidian
Mulla Krumba79
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan139
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan215
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan216B
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan217
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan222
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan223
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Mullu Kurunan232
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
NGL12
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
NGL7
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Uttar Pradesh


Muslim
Indo-European
SH22
North India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
T74
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
T76
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
TBR18
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
TBR25
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TNP29
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TNP43
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM21
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM55
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
VEM8
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249


Maharashtra
Tribe


Indo-European
T12
West India
U1a1c4
62-98-132-249-258


West Bengal


Muslim
Indo-European
M16/2
East India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-204-249


West Bengal


Muslim
Indo-European
M42/1
East India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-204-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
NAT23
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249-390


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
ODC53
South India
U1a1c4
174-182C-183C-189-249


Uttar Pradesh


Muslim
Indo-European
SH51
North India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249-319


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM18
South India
U1a1c4
174-182C-183C-189-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
TBR48
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-243-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
TBR5
South India
U1a1c4
86-182C-183C-189-249-325


Karnataka
Tribe


Dravidian
Kuruva-K24
South India
U1a1c4
111-(182C)-183C-189-(249)


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
DG149
South India
U1a1c4
92-182C-183C-189-249-527


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
DG73
South India
U1a1c4
108-182C-183C-189-249-527


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
DG88
South India
U1a1c4
111-182C-183C-189-249-527


Madhya Pradesh
Tribe


Indo-European
Bhil-Bh29
East India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249-258-263


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
CNP8
South India
U1a1c4
38-86-182C-183C-189-249-325


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
R196
South India
U1a1c4
182C-183C-189-249-318C-527


Karnataka


Christian
Dravidian
Christian-K82
South India
U1a1c4
(182C-183C-189)-249-275-293C





U7a3a2



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
NTB48
South India
U7a3a2
69-318T-362


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
T181
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarat32
West India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Karnataka


Muslim
Dravidian
Muslim-K54
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318(T)


Maharashtra
Caste
Muslim
Indo-European
Bohra4
West India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Maharashtra
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
Desasth Brahmin47
West India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Maharashtra
Caste


Indo-European
Nav-Baudh9
West India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
DG97
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
MDL19
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
MDU32
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
NTB2
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
NTB27
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
ODC51
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
ODC95
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
SHC198
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
SHC98
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B126
North India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B128
North India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B134
North India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B136
North India
U7a3a2
69-274-318T


Uttar Pradesh
Tribe


Indo-European
Logadiya22
North India
U7a3a2
(69)-274-318T


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
KAM12
South India
U7a3a2
69-129-274-318T


Kerala
Tribe


Dravidian
Paniya9
South India
U7a3a2
69-129-274-318T


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarat57
West India
U7a3a2
69-172-274-318T


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarat52
West India
U7a3a2
69-189-274-318T


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
T168
South India
U7a3a2
69-240-274-318T


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
Brahmin-BV29
South India
U7a3a2
69-274-280-318T


Maharashtra
Tribe


Indo-European
MK33
West India
U7a3a2
69-274-290-318T




J1b1a1



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
C109
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-261


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
Kapu-KTK23
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarat33
West India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Gujarat
Caste


Indo-European
Gujarati-GJ34
West India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM48
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Punjab
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
Brahmin PBR68
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Tamil Nadu


Muslim
Dravidian
TDB86
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B195
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B30
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
B51
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Uttar Pradesh
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
C145
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261


Ladakh
Tribe


Tibeto-Burman
Ladakhis-Bud11
Northeast India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-261-346


Karnataka
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
Gowda-G4
South India
J1b1a1
69-93-126-145-172-222-262


Kerala
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
TVM61
South India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261-319


Uttar Pradesh
Caste


Indo-European
UD43
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-222-261-355


Punjab
Caste
Upper-Caste
Indo-European
Kshatriya-PUJ
North India
J1b1a1
69-126-145-172-189-222-261-311



U1a2



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews15
South India
U1a2
93-129-189


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews11
South India
U1a2
93-129-189-222-249


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews18
South India
U1a2
93-129-189-222-249


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews21
South India
U1a2
93-129-189-222-249


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews30
South India
U1a2
93-129-189-222-249


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews6
South India
U1a2
93-129-189-222-249


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
ODC4
South India
U1a2
129-182C-183C-189-249



U7


State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin43
South India
U7
218-309


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin20
South India
U7
172-309-318T

BMG
12-22-2018, 04:42 AM
H



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Kerala
Caste
Upper-Caste
Dravidian
TVM62
South India
H
311-400



N1a2



State
Socio-cultural affiliation
Caste/Religion
Language group
Population/Samplesa
Region
Haplogroup
HVS-I (16001-16497) (16000+)b


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews3
South India
N1a2
223-356


Kerala
Caste


Dravidian
Cochin Jews45
South India
N1a2
223-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste


Dravidian
TE82
South India
N1a2
223-356-362


Tamil Nadu
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
NAT63
South India
N1a2
223-356-362


Delhi
Caste


Indo-European
Hindu
North India
N1a2
223-301-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
Re132
South India
N1a2
223-274-301-356


Punjab
Caste
Sikh
Indo-European
Sikh9884
North India
N1a2
223-286-301-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
PO09
South India
N1a2
192-223-274-301-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
PO10
South India
N1a2
192-223-274-301-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
R38
South India
N1a2
192-223-274-301-356


Andhra Pradesh
Caste
Middle-Caste
Dravidian
VN31
South India
N1a2
192-223-274-301-356

BMG
12-22-2018, 08:01 AM
From the paper

HV2 lineages have been observed mainly in higher-caste Brahmin, Parsi and Muslim populations from northern as well as southern India. A single HV2 lineage has also been reported in the lower schedule caste group from north India . Complete sequence analysis of the Indian HV2a2 lineage suggests its shared ancestry with the populations of Iran

The moderately high frequency (5 %) of HV14 lineages was found only in samples from south India (Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Andhra Pradesh) and adjoining areas of Sri Lanka (Ranaweera et al. 2014),however, these are either absent or negligibly present in other places like Maharashtra, Odisha, West Bengal and Uttar Pradesh . We completely sequenced a single Indian HV14 haplotype and compared it with our previously published south Indian sequences, and it helped us to define a new Indian-specific subclade, HV14a1 (Palanichamy et al. 2004). Nevertheless, a member of haplogroup HV14 was recently reported in Persian population from Iran (Derenko et al. 2013) .

U1a1a4 and U1a1c4 encompass 80 % of U1a lineages found in southern India . U1a lineage was observed to have a relatively high frequency in the Koragas population (22/28) with low HVS-I diversity (only two haplotypes), indicating the result of genetic drift that might have occurred in this population (Cordaux et al. 2003). The fully sequenced Koragas U1a mtDNAs (Ingman and Gyllensten 2003) together with our new sequence defined a new subclade—U1a1a4. This subclade appears to be unique, being found only in the Indian populations. Indian U1a1c4 lineages phylogenetically cluster with the Pakistani and Near Eastern (Iran) populations (Palanichamy et al. 2004; Derenko et al. 2013). U1a2 has been noted in the Jews from Cochin and it shares an ancestry with the Azerbaijan population (SchŲnberg et al. 2011)

vishankar
12-24-2018, 03:42 PM
Phew...!!!.. finally sent 4 kits back to family dna after specimen collection....In india so many questions are asked, and so much red tapism!

Rustyshakelford
12-27-2018, 06:11 PM
Found some more Kerala Hindu Kits:

Nair (confirmed based on surname):

S-Indian 48.07
Baloch 36.65
Caucasian 6.39
NE-Euro 4.87
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.26
NE-Asian 1.98
Papuan 0.77
American 0.58
Beringian -
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 0.34
San 0.08
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Nair (assuming shes nair based on how she scores):

S-Indian 47.85
Baloch 36.42
Caucasian 5.90
NE-Euro 5.25
SE-Asian -
Siberian 1.49
NE-Asian 0.58
Papuan 0.79
American 0.71
Beringian 0.10
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 0.91
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Panicker (could be Nair, Ezhava, or Syrian Christian):

S-Indian 56.89
Baloch 34.20
Caucasian 2.20
NE-Euro -
SE-Asian 1.23
Siberian 0.50
NE-Asian 1.08
Papuan 1.20
American -
Beringian 0.86
Mediterranean 0.73
SW-Asian 1.12
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -


Heres two ambiguouse ones I'm assuming are mallu hindu based on their names but i'm unsure which community/caste:


S-Indian 55.87
Baloch 34.90
Caucasian 2.62
NE-Euro -
SE-Asian 1.74
Siberian 1.11
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.07
American 0.56
Beringian -
Mediterranean 0.21
SW-Asian 2.51
San -
E-African 0.38
Pygmy -
W-African -

S-Indian 55.37
Baloch 30.61
Caucasian 6.31
NE-Euro 0.13
SE-Asian 1.30
Siberian 0.10
NE-Asian 1.40
Papuan 0.95
American 0.52
Beringian 0.55
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 2.18
San 0.41
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African 0.16


The first two Nair kits score somewhat similar to bmoney but the oracles are different.

Kart
12-29-2018, 07:12 PM
Found some more Kerala Hindu Kits:

Nair (confirmed based on surname):

S-Indian 48.07
Baloch 36.65
Caucasian 6.39
NE-Euro 4.87
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.26
NE-Asian 1.98
Papuan 0.77
American 0.58
Beringian -
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 0.34
San 0.08
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Nair (assuming shes nair based on how she scores):

S-Indian 47.85
Baloch 36.42
Caucasian 5.90
NE-Euro 5.25
SE-Asian -
Siberian 1.49
NE-Asian 0.58
Papuan 0.79
American 0.71
Beringian 0.10
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 0.91
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Panicker (could be Nair, Ezhava, or Syrian Christian):

S-Indian 56.89
Baloch 34.20
Caucasian 2.20
NE-Euro -
SE-Asian 1.23
Siberian 0.50
NE-Asian 1.08
Papuan 1.20
American -
Beringian 0.86
Mediterranean 0.73
SW-Asian 1.12
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -


Heres two ambiguouse ones I'm assuming are mallu hindu based on their names but i'm unsure which community/caste:


S-Indian 55.87
Baloch 34.90
Caucasian 2.62
NE-Euro -
SE-Asian 1.74
Siberian 1.11
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.07
American 0.56
Beringian -
Mediterranean 0.21
SW-Asian 2.51
San -
E-African 0.38
Pygmy -
W-African -

S-Indian 55.37
Baloch 30.61
Caucasian 6.31
NE-Euro 0.13
SE-Asian 1.30
Siberian 0.10
NE-Asian 1.40
Papuan 0.95
American 0.52
Beringian 0.55
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 2.18
San 0.41
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African 0.16


The first two Nair kits score somewhat similar to bmoney but the oracles are different.

Can you post the oracles for all 4?

Rustyshakelford
12-30-2018, 05:03 AM
Can you post the oracles for all 4?

I’m out of town don’t have access to my pc. I’ll pm you the kit numbers

Rustyshakelford
12-30-2018, 06:10 AM
Also got some of my STRs back today. Entered them into calcs and one told me it’s likely to be R2-479 while another one said Q or L

@BMG help a brother out

Here’s my STRs:
28019

It’s from Yseq and they havent updated all of my order yet.

BMG
12-30-2018, 07:56 AM
Also got some of my STRs back today. Entered them into calcs and one told me itís likely to be R2-479 while another one said Q or L

@BMG help a brother out

Hereís my STRs:
28019

Itís from Yseq and they havent updated all of my order yet.
Definitely not L . But difficult to predict exact haplogroup at this point for me .May be parasar could .

Kart
12-30-2018, 12:37 PM
Oracles for the kit Rusty posted:

Kit #1

Unknown Caste, Hindu

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 55.37
2 Baloch 30.61
3 Caucasian 6.31
4 SW-Asian 2.18
5 NE-Asian 1.40
6 SE-Asian 1.30


Using 1 population approximation:
1 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 3.946508
2 tamil_harappa @ 4.199263
3 ap-hyderabad_harappa @ 4.709267
4 sinhalese_harappa @ 4.730883
5 karnataka_harappa @ 4.963505
6 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 5.353780
7 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 5.676474
8 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 5.843927
9 sourastrian_harappa @ 6.280036
10 velama_reich @ 6.332186
11 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 6.338415
12 south-african-indian_harappa @ 6.477956
13 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.540806
14 tharu_metspalu @ 6.624380
15 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.789979
16 kurumba_metspalu @ 6.820201
17 velama_metspalu @ 6.986594
18 ap-reddy_harappa @ 7.041817
19 up-muslim_metspalu @ 7.315941
20 lodi_reich @ 7.419090

Kit #2

Unknown Caste, Hindu

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 55.87
2 Baloch 34.90
3 Caucasian 2.62
4 SW-Asian 2.51
5 SE-Asian 1.74
6 Siberian 1.11

Using 1 population approximation:
1 velama_metspalu @ 2.759273
2 karnataka_harappa @ 3.018470
3 velama_reich @ 3.246641
4 ap-reddy_harappa @ 3.711874
5 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 4.016039
6 sinhalese_harappa @ 4.325453
7 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 4.397073
8 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 4.633767
9 tamil_harappa @ 5.012915
10 meghawal_metspalu @ 5.127230
11 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.583087
12 tharu_metspalu @ 5.624716
13 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 5.666615
14 lodi_reich @ 6.385970
15 kurumba_metspalu @ 6.529902
16 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 6.537474
17 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.582870
18 dusadh_metspalu @ 6.626002
19 dharkar_metspalu @ 6.842778
20 naidu_reich @ 7.034308

Kit #3

Nair (confirmed based on surname):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 48.07
2 Baloch 36.65
3 Caucasian 6.39
4 NE-Euro 4.87
5 NE-Asian 1.98

Using 1 population approximation:
1 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.236193
2 rajasthani_harappa @ 2.560519
3 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.970402
4 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.994075
5 goan_harappa @ 3.070204
6 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.202612
7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.460863
8 kerala-nair_harappa @ 3.940849
9 ap-brahmin_xing @ 3.946562
10 gujarati_harappa @ 4.061394
11 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 4.065619
12 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.141551
13 meghawal_reich @ 4.156150
14 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.733718
15 up_harappa @ 5.735638
16 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.847003
17 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.996122
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.173535
19 kerala_harappa @ 6.336312
20 kurmi_metspalu @ 6.369531

Kit #4

Nair (assuming shes nair based on how she scores):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 47.85
2 Baloch 36.42
3 Caucasian 5.90
4 NE-Euro 5.25
5 Siberian 1.49


Using 1 population approximation:
1 rajasthani_harappa @ 2.115006
2 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.470837
3 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.497509
4 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 2.544874
5 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.545553
6 maharashtrian_harappa @ 2.551777
7 ap-brahmin_xing @ 3.193665
8 meghawal_reich @ 3.224689
9 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 3.406542
10 goan_harappa @ 3.607004
11 gujarati_harappa @ 3.848868
12 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 3.944901
13 kerala-nair_harappa @ 3.945709
14 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.501822
15 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.063313
16 up_harappa @ 5.082522
17 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.572120
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 5.858537
19 bihari_harappa @ 6.145288
20 kerala_harappa @ 6.435066

Kit #5

Panicker (could be Nair, Ezhava, or Syrian Christian):


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 56.89
2 Baloch 34.20
3 Caucasian 2.20
4 SE-Asian 1.23
5 Papuan 1.20
6 SW-Asian 1.12
7 NE-Asian 1.08


Using 1 population approximation:
1 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 2.422092
2 velama_metspalu @ 2.925835
3 karnataka_harappa @ 2.939932
4 sinhalese_harappa @ 3.155999
5 velama_reich @ 3.277041
6 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 3.339617
7 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 4.071352
8 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 4.223301
9 ap-reddy_harappa @ 4.236481
10 lodi_reich @ 4.792316
11 dusadh_metspalu @ 4.814974
12 kurumba_metspalu @ 5.036026
13 tharu_metspalu @ 5.300127
14 tamil_harappa @ 5.778306
15 up-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 5.857869
16 naidu_reich @ 5.886788
17 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.906203
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.071615
19 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.327652
20 south-african-indian_harappa @ 6.446152

Kart
12-30-2018, 01:00 PM
Also got some of my STRs back today. Entered them into calcs and one told me itís likely to be R2-479 while another one said Q or L

@BMG help a brother out

Hereís my STRs:
28019

Itís from Yseq and they havent updated all of my order yet.

What is this?

Rustyshakelford
12-30-2018, 03:18 PM
What is this?

Getting my Y-DNA tested

Kart
12-30-2018, 03:21 PM
Getting my Y-DNA tested

Cool

p.s charge your phone:lol:

Kart
12-30-2018, 06:19 PM
Rusty, what's your MtDNA?

Rustyshakelford
12-30-2018, 07:37 PM
Rusty, what's your MtDNA?

I’ve ordered a kit but haven’t sent it in yet. Knas are all M33a2 so I’m assuming I’ll be the same

Kart
12-30-2018, 08:15 PM
I’ve ordered a kit but haven’t sent it in yet. Knas are all M33a2 so I’m assuming I’ll be the same

You can find out from xcode for free when you upload your ancestry/23andme file, and they even give you like a $40 coupon to buy their test kit. https://www.xcode.life/the-south-asian-genome-project/#get-started

Thry also give your Y haplogroup if you're a male.

Kart
12-30-2018, 08:25 PM
28025

28026

Since you're knanaya, they can break down the West Asian part for you. So you should definitely try it.

bmoney
12-31-2018, 06:14 AM
Oracles for the kit Rusty posted:

Kit #1

Unknown Caste, Hindu

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 55.37
2 Baloch 30.61
3 Caucasian 6.31
4 SW-Asian 2.18
5 NE-Asian 1.40
6 SE-Asian 1.30


Using 1 population approximation:
1 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 3.946508
2 tamil_harappa @ 4.199263
3 ap-hyderabad_harappa @ 4.709267
4 sinhalese_harappa @ 4.730883
5 karnataka_harappa @ 4.963505
6 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 5.353780
7 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 5.676474
8 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 5.843927
9 sourastrian_harappa @ 6.280036
10 velama_reich @ 6.332186
11 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 6.338415
12 south-african-indian_harappa @ 6.477956
13 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.540806
14 tharu_metspalu @ 6.624380
15 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.789979
16 kurumba_metspalu @ 6.820201
17 velama_metspalu @ 6.986594
18 ap-reddy_harappa @ 7.041817
19 up-muslim_metspalu @ 7.315941
20 lodi_reich @ 7.419090

Kit #2

Unknown Caste, Hindu

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 55.87
2 Baloch 34.90
3 Caucasian 2.62
4 SW-Asian 2.51
5 SE-Asian 1.74
6 Siberian 1.11

Using 1 population approximation:
1 velama_metspalu @ 2.759273
2 karnataka_harappa @ 3.018470
3 velama_reich @ 3.246641
4 ap-reddy_harappa @ 3.711874
5 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 4.016039
6 sinhalese_harappa @ 4.325453
7 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 4.397073
8 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 4.633767
9 tamil_harappa @ 5.012915
10 meghawal_metspalu @ 5.127230
11 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.583087
12 tharu_metspalu @ 5.624716
13 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 5.666615
14 lodi_reich @ 6.385970
15 kurumba_metspalu @ 6.529902
16 kerala-muslim_harappa @ 6.537474
17 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.582870
18 dusadh_metspalu @ 6.626002
19 dharkar_metspalu @ 6.842778
20 naidu_reich @ 7.034308

Kit #3

Nair (confirmed based on surname):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 48.07
2 Baloch 36.65
3 Caucasian 6.39
4 NE-Euro 4.87
5 NE-Asian 1.98

Using 1 population approximation:
1 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.236193
2 rajasthani_harappa @ 2.560519
3 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.970402
4 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.994075
5 goan_harappa @ 3.070204
6 maharashtrian_harappa @ 3.202612
7 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 3.460863
8 kerala-nair_harappa @ 3.940849
9 ap-brahmin_xing @ 3.946562
10 gujarati_harappa @ 4.061394
11 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 4.065619
12 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 4.141551
13 meghawal_reich @ 4.156150
14 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.733718
15 up_harappa @ 5.735638
16 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.847003
17 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.996122
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.173535
19 kerala_harappa @ 6.336312
20 kurmi_metspalu @ 6.369531

Kit #4

Nair (assuming shes nair based on how she scores):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 47.85
2 Baloch 36.42
3 Caucasian 5.90
4 NE-Euro 5.25
5 Siberian 1.49


Using 1 population approximation:
1 rajasthani_harappa @ 2.115006
2 tn-brahmin_xing @ 2.470837
3 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 2.497509
4 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 2.544874
5 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 2.545553
6 maharashtrian_harappa @ 2.551777
7 ap-brahmin_xing @ 3.193665
8 meghawal_reich @ 3.224689
9 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 3.406542
10 goan_harappa @ 3.607004
11 gujarati_harappa @ 3.848868
12 singapore-indian-b_sgvp @ 3.944901
13 kerala-nair_harappa @ 3.945709
14 kerala-christian_harappa @ 4.501822
15 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 5.063313
16 up_harappa @ 5.082522
17 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 5.572120
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 5.858537
19 bihari_harappa @ 6.145288
20 kerala_harappa @ 6.435066

Kit #5

Panicker (could be Nair, Ezhava, or Syrian Christian):


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 56.89
2 Baloch 34.20
3 Caucasian 2.20
4 SE-Asian 1.23
5 Papuan 1.20
6 SW-Asian 1.12
7 NE-Asian 1.08


Using 1 population approximation:
1 tamil-vellalar_harappa @ 2.422092
2 velama_metspalu @ 2.925835
3 karnataka_harappa @ 2.939932
4 sinhalese_harappa @ 3.155999
5 velama_reich @ 3.277041
6 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 3.339617
7 andhra-pradesh_harappa @ 4.071352
8 tamil-nadar_harappa @ 4.223301
9 ap-reddy_harappa @ 4.236481
10 lodi_reich @ 4.792316
11 dusadh_metspalu @ 4.814974
12 kurumba_metspalu @ 5.036026
13 tharu_metspalu @ 5.300127
14 tamil_harappa @ 5.778306
15 up-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 5.857869
16 naidu_reich @ 5.886788
17 kurmi_metspalu @ 5.906203
18 meghawal_metspalu @ 6.071615
19 lambadi_metspalu @ 6.327652
20 south-african-indian_harappa @ 6.446152

Nice! I’m not unique at all, those 2 Nairs score like me

The Panicker is probably an Ezhava or a Syrian Christian/Nair of Ezhava origin

Kit 1 and 2 probably represent the Tamilakam pre-Aryan urban Dravidian Kerala genetic bedrock aka pre Aryan Mallus aka da real OGs

Kart
12-31-2018, 12:31 PM
Nice! Iím not unique at all, those 2 Nairs score like me

The Panicker is probably an Ezhava or a Syrian Christian/Nair of Ezhava origin

Kit 1 and 2 probably represent the Tamilakam pre-Aryan urban Dravidian Kerala genetic bedrock aka pre Aryan Mallus aka da real OGs

How can they be Pre-Aryan if they have Baloch admixture?

Mandoos
12-31-2018, 03:44 PM
How can they be Pre-Aryan if they have Baloch admixture?

Admixture denotes similarities of ancestry not actual inherited ancestries. What usually hints "Aryan" or steppe mixture is presence of NE Euro component which is there in Brahmins due to endogamy (and steppe mixed/ANI ancestry of --->) and north Indians because of the way steppe pastoralists mixed with all the IVC remnants in the north. Baloch comes from Iranian neolithic farmers, which mixed with south Asian hunter gatherers to create IVC people. Tribals or Ancient south Indians are a product of IVC remnants which moved south/east and mixed further with native hunter gatherers present in those areas. For some reason there are no purely native hunter gatherers present anywhere, imo due to sparse populations south and east which became usurped by this ASI mixture. All tribals or true "pre-aryans" like reddys, south Indians without NE Euro are going to have >10% Baloch iirc.

vishankar
01-01-2019, 03:04 AM
at what level of NE euro or any other component for that matter would noise be considered?

bmoney
01-01-2019, 02:07 PM
How can they be Pre-Aryan if they have Baloch admixture?

The Baloch component largely derives from Neolithic migrations from Iranian farmers who some scholars speculate brought the Dravidian languages

It also came with Indo Aryans via the BMAC and separate SC Asian migrations as well as the highest Baloch hotspots outside Baluchistan are in Western/Northern Punjab

bmoney
01-01-2019, 02:08 PM
Admixture denotes similarities of ancestry not actual inherited ancestries. What usually hints "Aryan" or steppe mixture is presence of NE Euro component which is there in Brahmins due to endogamy (and steppe mixed/ANI ancestry of --->) and north Indians because of the way steppe pastoralists mixed with all the IVC remnants in the north. Baloch comes from Iranian neolithic farmers, which mixed with south Asian hunter gatherers to create IVC people. Tribals or Ancient south Indians are a product of IVC remnants which moved south/east and mixed further with native hunter gatherers present in those areas. For some reason there are no purely native hunter gatherers present anywhere, imo due to sparse populations south and east which became usurped by this ASI mixture. All tribals or true "pre-aryans" like reddys, south Indians without NE Euro are going to have >10% Baloch iirc.

Great summary

bmoney
01-01-2019, 02:11 PM
Could all of you look out for Karnataka and Konkan kits as well pls (all castes)

Thinking of creating a separate thread for them when we reach kit critical mass

BMG
01-02-2019, 03:45 PM
Another Kerala Christian match . First time I am seeing a result resembling my paternal grandmother
1. S-Indian 50.05
2 Baloch 35.75
3 NE-Euro 4.62
4 Caucasian 3.44
5 SW-Asian 2.42
6 NE-Asian 2.17
7 SE-Asian 1.3
8 Siberian 0.26

Another Konkan kit . Surname Paranjpe

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 46.56
2 Baloch 36.94
3 NE-Euro 4.94
4 Caucasian 4.21
5 Mediterranean 2.52
6 SW-Asian 1.7
7 SE-Asian 1.34
8 Beringian 0.8
9 Papuan 0.53
10 American 0.45

BMG
01-02-2019, 03:51 PM
Surname Vaidya

1 S-Indian 45.88
2 Baloch 35.55
3 Caucasian 7.07
4 NE-Euro 4.38
5 American 2.41
6 SW-Asian 2.01
7 Beringian 1.12
8 Siberian 0.53
9 Papuan 0.52
10 NE-Asian 0.32
11 SE-Asian 0.15
12 Pygmy 0.06

Another unrelated Paranjpe

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 46.07
2 Baloch 35.68
3 Caucasian 6.48
4 NE-Euro 5.4
5 Mediterranean 2.32
6 SW-Asian 1.53
7 SE-Asian 0.89
8 Beringian 0.88
9 Siberian 0.77

vishankar
01-02-2019, 06:04 PM
great job by BMG!...however paranjpe is chitpawan brahmin i think,and Vaidya is chandrasena kayastha prabhu...but i assume they will fit nicely into the uppercaste maharashtrian profiles!

BMG
01-05-2019, 05:04 PM
Gokhale

1 S-Indian 47.78
2 Baloch 35.81
3 Caucasian 6.43
4 NE-Euro 5.74
5 American 1.52
6 Beringian 0.98
7 Mediterranean 0.61
8 Papuan 0.55
9 SW-Asian 0.28
10 San 0.25
11 W-African 0.04
12 SE-Asian 0.01

Nawathe

1 S-Indian 46.43
2 Baloch 36.36
3 Caucasian 6.05
4 NE-Euro 3.85
5 Mediterranean 2.17
6 Siberian 1.6
7 American 1.13
8 SE-Asian 0.57
9 SW-Asian 0.55
10 NE-Asian 0.44
11 Papuan 0.39
12 San 0.24
13 Beringian 0.2

Joshi
1 S-Indian 47.61
2 Baloch 36.17
3 NE-Euro 6.48
4 Caucasian 4.11
5 Mediterranean 1.27
6 SW-Asian 1.24
7 Siberian 1.04
8 American 0.62
9 Beringian 0.62
10 SE-Asian 0.47
11 Papuan 0.37

BMG
01-05-2019, 05:05 PM
Pillai

1 S-Indian 50.89
2 Baloch 35.62
3 Caucasian 7.13
4 NE-Euro 2.3
5 NE-Asian 1.47
6 Papuan 0.86
7 American 0.59
8 SE-Asian 0.41
9 Beringian 0.33
10 SW-Asian 0.25
11 Mediterranean 0.15

Shastri

1 S-Indian 48.05
2 Baloch 35.06
3 Caucasian 7.22
4 NE-Euro 5.07
5 Mediterranean 1.35
6 American 1.31
7 NE-Asian 0.99
8 Siberian 0.55
9 Beringian 0.37
10 Pygmy 0.02

vishankar
01-05-2019, 05:57 PM
today I hit a jackpot!...I must thank my wife!,,,she got me a nair lady from vadakara, a vaniya lady, a namboothiri priest and a pathuveetil poduval)( essentially nair- nambiar lady from karivellur( the last 3 )!...all for autosomal family finder analysis!

bmoney
01-06-2019, 02:01 AM
Pillai

1 S-Indian 50.89
2 Baloch 35.62
3 Caucasian 7.13
4 NE-Euro 2.3
5 NE-Asian 1.47
6 Papuan 0.86
7 American 0.59
8 SE-Asian 0.41
9 Beringian 0.33
10 SW-Asian 0.25
11 Mediterranean 0.15

Shastri

1 S-Indian 48.05
2 Baloch 35.06
3 Caucasian 7.22
4 NE-Euro 5.07
5 Mediterranean 1.35
6 American 1.31
7 NE-Asian 0.99
8 Siberian 0.55
9 Beringian 0.37
10 Pygmy 0.02

Shastri a Karnataka or Konkan Brahmin? thats my guess

vishankar
01-06-2019, 02:46 AM
HI...great job,BMG!...shastri would be a kanataka madhwa brahmin from my knowledge...however many brahmin sects have "shastris"- still unlikely to be konkan.
the pillai you have posted is nair or vellala?

BMG
01-06-2019, 03:47 AM
the pillai you have posted is nair or vellala?
I don't know .

Ravi shastri was from Mangalore . But don't know much about them could be some kind of Brahmin . The earlier kits are most probably konkanasth Brahmins

bmoney
01-06-2019, 03:57 AM
Gokhale

1 S-Indian 47.78
2 Baloch 35.81
3 Caucasian 6.43
4 NE-Euro 5.74
5 American 1.52
6 Beringian 0.98
7 Mediterranean 0.61
8 Papuan 0.55
9 SW-Asian 0.28
10 San 0.25
11 W-African 0.04
12 SE-Asian 0.01

Nawathe

1 S-Indian 46.43
2 Baloch 36.36
3 Caucasian 6.05
4 NE-Euro 3.85
5 Mediterranean 2.17
6 Siberian 1.6
7 American 1.13
8 SE-Asian 0.57
9 SW-Asian 0.55
10 NE-Asian 0.44
11 Papuan 0.39
12 San 0.24
13 Beringian 0.2

Joshi
1 S-Indian 47.61
2 Baloch 36.17
3 NE-Euro 6.48
4 Caucasian 4.11
5 Mediterranean 1.27
6 SW-Asian 1.24
7 Siberian 1.04
8 American 0.62
9 Beringian 0.62
10 SE-Asian 0.47
11 Papuan 0.37

Man these Marathi/Konkan/Karnatakan upper castes form a genetic block with some overlap with certain Kerala Nairs

BMG
01-06-2019, 04:07 AM
Man these Marathi/Konkan/Karnatakan upper castes form a genetic block with some overlap with certain Kerala Nairs
Bunts are the only dark spot there . My friend haven't still send her kit yet

Censored
01-06-2019, 06:22 AM
Man these Marathi/Konkan/Karnatakan upper castes form a genetic block with some overlap with certain Kerala Nairs

What is the Joshi name?

BMG
01-06-2019, 06:34 AM
What is the Joshi name?

Joshi is a surname probably for people learned in jyotisha aka astrology .

vishankar
01-06-2019, 02:03 PM
Man these Marathi/Konkan/Karnatakan upper castes form a genetic block with some overlap with certain Kerala Nairs

yeah... exactly...i wonder how they would fare on the pegasus calculator...

vishankar
01-06-2019, 02:08 PM
joshi is a brahmin...ravi shastri is the most famous " shastri" lol:), but our erstwhile president Lal Bahadur Shastri was from Uttar Pradesh...!...some havyak brahmans confer the title shastri to the learned among them!

Kart
01-07-2019, 03:55 PM
I still haven't gotten a chance to send out my family's kits. My parents are computer illiterate so my lazy ass was too lazy to set up an email for them :lol:

vishankar
01-08-2019, 07:14 AM
I still haven't gotten a chance to send out my family's kits. My parents are computer illiterate so my lazy ass was too lazy to set up an email for them :lol:

hi... if you are on family tree dna you could include them using your email id...

vishankar
01-12-2019, 03:45 AM
I wonder how the Toda would do in an admixture analysis?...almosst entirely iran neolithic?..we know they are a predominantly haplogroup J people Y chromosome wise...

thejkhan
01-12-2019, 04:12 AM
I wonder how the Toda would do in an admixture analysis?...almosst entirely iran neolithic?..we know they are a predominantly haplogroup J people Y chromosome wise...

What about the mtdna side?

They must have very high Iran_N compared to neighbouring populations, but probably not as high as NW South Asians.

Mandoos
01-12-2019, 04:15 AM
I wonder how the Toda would do in an admixture analysis?...almosst entirely iran neolithic?..we know they are a predominantly haplogroup J people Y chromosome wise...

wut :wacko:

You do mean 20-40% right, like most south asian groups

vishankar
01-12-2019, 02:55 PM
for a newbie genetic lover like me, i always seem to relapse into a physical anthro correlation...thus the question about the todas?old obsolete texts regarded them as spillover of some proto nordic type into south india! but their y-dna make up suggests otherwise, with nil R1a!.....mostly J hapgp....

BMG
01-13-2019, 02:02 AM
What about the mtdna side?

They must have very high Iran_N compared to neighbouring populations, but probably not as high as NW South Asians.
Their mtdna is mostly R and M. They may not be high Iran neolithic compared to neighbouring non tribal populations but might have more than other nilgiri tribals .

BMG
01-13-2019, 02:18 AM
for a newbie genetic lover like me, i always seem to relapse into a physical anthro correlation...thus the question about the todas?old obsolete texts regarded them as spillover of some proto nordic type into south india! but their y-dna make up suggests otherwise, with nil R1a!.....mostly J hapgp....

I have worked with toda irl and they seemed to tribal shifted compared to general population . So my guess their Iran neolithic will be less and HG ancestry to be higher compared to non tribal population . Also most of their J is J-M68 which is a South Asian specific subclade.

Thomas48
01-13-2019, 05:25 AM
Here’s another Knanaya I was able to collect. Remarkable how much symmetry all Knanaya have to each other, we haven’t had a sample yet that has been out of these parameters.

Knanaya #34
# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 46.57
2 Baloch 31.75
3 Caucasian 9.37
4 SW-Asian 4.04
5 NE-Euro 3.45
6 SE-Asian 2.22
7 NE-Asian 0.96
8 Papuan 0.55
9 Siberian 0.44
10 American 0.32
11 W-African 0.31

vishankar
01-19-2019, 04:04 PM
I see Bmoney is banned again...how long?

Rustyshakelford
01-19-2019, 04:09 PM
I think it’s permanent, pretty unfair imo

BMG
01-19-2019, 04:57 PM
I think it’s permanent, pretty unfair imo

Why ? What happened

Rustyshakelford
01-19-2019, 05:10 PM
Why ? What happened

Not sure, I’ll pm one of the mods

vishankar
01-19-2019, 06:14 PM
Its a shame really,his posts were really educative!..i wll also pm the mods !

Mandoos
01-19-2019, 06:32 PM
Its a shame really,his posts were really educative!..i wll also pm the mods !

Apparently some of his posts got too personal regarding genetics of NW indians... I don't really see how he was being rude enough to warrant the ban

vishankar
01-22-2019, 05:55 AM
I will carry over the discussion on MDLP over here....I agree with Mandoos...geographically close regions in kerala ,seem to have wide variation in dialect and cultures,alleppey and kottayam may be one example,Payyanur and Taliparamba in Malabar being another!
I share my mitochondrial DNA-U1 ( have not tested deeper!) with Christians of the same region i.e ernakaulam,thodupuzha etc...
yet again I will hypotheticate that with the exception of the nambudiris and the tribals and tribal derived lowest rungs of society, we are all very similar with increments from steppe, west asian sources, as in the case of Nairs and Christians respectively!

BMG
01-22-2019, 06:13 AM
I will carry over the discussion on MDLP over here....I agree with Mandoos...geographically close regions in kerala ,seem to have wide variation in dialect and cultures,alleppey and kottayam may be one example,Payyanur and Taliparamba in Malabar being another!
I share my mitochondrial DNA-U1 ( have not tested deeper!) with Christians of the same region i.e ernakaulam,thodupuzha etc...
yet again I will hypotheticate that with the exception of the nambudiris and the tribals and tribal derived lowest rungs of society, we are all very similar with increments from steppe, west asian sources, as in the case of Nairs and Christians respectively!
Well no need to exclude nambudiris . They are not that different when compared to SC and tribals . Some nairs like bmoney and knanaya with their elevated west Asian along with the brahmins will come as least ASI among malayalis . But what differentiates SC groups and tribals from other their much lower levels of Iran-N

bmoney
01-23-2019, 10:12 PM
Apparently some of his posts got too personal regarding genetics of NW indians... I don't really see how he was being rude enough to warrant the ban

It was a temp ban but im back now

Censored
01-23-2019, 10:18 PM
It was a temp ban but im back now

What, wouldn't it have said suspended? Lol

Good to have you back anyway

bmoney
01-23-2019, 10:55 PM
What, wouldn't it have said suspended? Lol

Good to have you back anyway

Cheers bru

poi
01-23-2019, 11:01 PM
It was a temp ban but im back now

Welcome back, bmoney!!

bmoney
01-23-2019, 11:01 PM
I will carry over the discussion on MDLP over here....I agree with Mandoos...geographically close regions in kerala ,seem to have wide variation in dialect and cultures,alleppey and kottayam may be one example,Payyanur and Taliparamba in Malabar being another!
I share my mitochondrial DNA-U1 ( have not tested deeper!) with Christians of the same region i.e ernakaulam,thodupuzha etc...
yet again I will hypotheticate that with the exception of the nambudiris and the tribals and tribal derived lowest rungs of society, we are all very similar with increments from steppe, west asian sources, as in the case of Nairs and Christians respectively!

As BMG said Nambudiris are not that different.

Based on their HAP result I have more NE Euro+Med than the Kerala Brahmin result and I have no Brahmin ancestry for at least 4 gens (records exist) so any Brahmin ancestry (if any) would be in the GGG grandparents range (3.12%)

Bunts and Coorghis also don't have any Brahmin ancestry

Id say 5 groups are genetically distinct in Kerala from the results I've seen so far:

Konkan/South Karnataka like groups - certain Nairs, Brahmins, Bunts, Coorghis
Upper Middle caste group - most Syrian Christians, most Nairs
Lower Middle caste group - Ezhavas, Thiyyas, certain Nairs, certain Syrian Christians, OBC communities
Knanaya/Cochin Jews - reasonably off cline
Tribals

bmoney
01-23-2019, 11:06 PM
Welcome back, bmoney!!

Cheers Poi! tbh everyone needs a bit of a breather from this forum for their sanity

vishankar
01-24-2019, 02:37 AM
great to have you back... dear!, my father in law's y- dna from famil tree dna is j2b1m205, but i will have to wait for some more time to clarify.....used nevgen.org to get his hapgp...his background ,nambiar- peringeth tharavadu.

BMG
01-24-2019, 02:59 AM
As BMG said Nambudiris are not that different.

Based on their HAP result I have more NE Euro+Med than the Kerala Brahmin result and I have no Brahmin ancestry for at least 4 gens (records exist) so any Brahmin ancestry (if any) would be in the GGG grandparents range (3.12%)

Bunts and Coorghis also don't have any Brahmin ancestry

Id say 5 groups are genetically distinct in Kerala from the results I've seen so far:

Konkan/South Karnataka like groups - certain Nairs, Brahmins, Bunts, Coorghis
Upper Middle caste group - most Syrian Christians, most Nairs
Lower Middle caste group - Ezhavas, Thiyyas, certain Nairs, certain Syrian Christians, OBC communities
Knanaya/Cochin Jews - reasonably off cline
Tribals
I would put most bunts and coorgis in second group .

bmoney
01-24-2019, 03:04 AM
great to have you back... dear!, my father in law's y- dna from famil tree dna is j2b1m205, but i will have to wait for some more time to clarify.....used nevgen.org to get his hapgp...his background ,nambiar- peringeth tharavadu.

Wohoo a J2b!!! tbh I don't have as many Js among my relatives as I expected. J2b from what ive seen is more common in the NW BMG correct me if im wrong

Can we test his kit autosomally? we need more Nambiar results

bmoney
01-24-2019, 03:06 AM
I would put most bunts and coorgis in second group .

Based off how many results?

Was it one Bunt kit? its certainly possible though

Kart
01-24-2019, 04:27 AM
great to have you back... dear!, my father in law's y- dna from famil tree dna is j2b1m205, but i will have to wait for some more time to clarify.....used nevgen.org to get his hapgp...his background ,nambiar- peringeth tharavadu.

is J2 common amonf Indians?

vishankar
01-24-2019, 05:09 PM
hi... i derived it from nevgen.org, but again ft dna has to clarify, someting does not seem ok here...! I will send a snapshot of the nevgen result, please opine...

vishankar
01-24-2019, 05:18 PM
28588

this is why i am confused regarding his y- dna...

vishankar
01-24-2019, 05:40 PM
guess what, i just used whit athey\s hap predictor and it came out as haplogroup L:\

parasar
01-24-2019, 06:31 PM
28588

this is why i am confused regarding his y- dna...

I would not rely on this.
His line may be too remote a branch to be predicted correctly.

parasar
01-24-2019, 06:32 PM
guess what, i just used whit athey\s hap predictor and it came out as haplogroup L:\

Any specific type of L, or just generic L?

vishankar
01-24-2019, 06:45 PM
Any specific type of L, or just generic L?

just generic L....

Censored
01-24-2019, 06:48 PM
is J2 common amonf Indians?

Yeah itís common.

aaronbee2010
01-24-2019, 07:04 PM
Any specific type of L, or just generic L?

Are L-M27 and L-M357 far enough from each other to have distinct Y-STR haplotypes?

bmoney
01-25-2019, 08:44 PM
Rusty you got your Y-DNA!

Since youíre R2 you should get our resident R2 expert @arronbee2010 on the case

Rustyshakelford
01-25-2019, 08:51 PM
Rusty you got your Y-DNA!

Since you’re R2 you should get our resident R2 expert @arronbee2010 on the case

Lol yep he’s alredy on the case, been guiding me over at the R2 thread

aaronbee2010
01-25-2019, 10:19 PM
Rusty you got your Y-DNA!

Since you’re R2 you should get our resident R2 expert @arronbee2010 on the case

*resident R2 God :D

bmoney
01-26-2019, 01:16 AM
*resident R2 God :D

resident GOAT*

aaronbee2010
01-26-2019, 01:17 AM
resident GOAT*

Goat, God, same thing :P

bmoney
01-26-2019, 01:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWd9a8Ck8U

vishankar
01-27-2019, 04:10 PM
my father in laws Harappa result-
Population
S-Indian 45.27 Pct
Baloch 38.57 Pct
Caucasian 6.20 Pct
NE-Euro 3.10 Pct
SE-Asian 0.66 Pct
Siberian 0.74 Pct
NE-Asian 0.80 Pct
Papuan 0.71 Pct
American 1.27 Pct
Beringian -
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 2.65 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African

vishankar
01-27-2019, 04:11 PM
I had mentioned earlier - he is a nambiar with no recent past history of nambudiri admixture.

vishankar
01-27-2019, 04:26 PM
my wife's harappa-nambiar father + payyanur poduval mother-
Population
S-Indian 46.52 Pct
Baloch 37.92 Pct
Caucasian 6.00 Pct
NE-Euro 4.21 Pct
SE-Asian 0.20 Pct
Siberian 1.52 Pct
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.41 Pct
American 0.82 Pct
Beringian 0.39 Pct
Mediterranean 0.09 Pct
SW-Asian 1.93 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African

BMG
01-27-2019, 05:21 PM
my wife's harappa-nambiar father + payyanur poduval mother-
Population
S-Indian 46.52 Pct
Baloch 37.92 Pct
Caucasian 6.00 Pct
NE-Euro 4.21 Pct
SE-Asian 0.20 Pct
Siberian 1.52 Pct
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.41 Pct
American 0.82 Pct
Beringian 0.39 Pct
Mediterranean 0.09 Pct
SW-Asian 1.93 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African
Is the poduval side Nair ?
Father in law is similar to bmoney . Some of the steppe went to Baloch resulting in higher Baloch . I think in G25 he will be in a almost similar position as bmoney .
Have you tested their mtdna also ?

vishankar
01-27-2019, 05:27 PM
my wife's mt dna i have checked , results arent available as yet....The payyanur poduval caste till half a century back would not give their daughters to nairs/ nambiars , only hypergamous marriages existed, now there is free intermarriage with nairs and nambiars...when i get some moolah i will do a G25....will post a couple more results soon!

BMG
01-27-2019, 06:17 PM
my wife's mt dna i have checked , results arent available as yet....The payyanur poduval caste till half a century back would not give their daughters to nairs/ nambiars , only hypergamous marriages existed, now there is free intermarriage with nairs and nambiars...when i get some moolah i will do a G25....will post a couple more results soon!
I also would like to test my wife since she has documented west asian ancestors including her father's direct line from late 18th century . Though not in near future since I have already crossed the budget by a big margin .

Kart
01-27-2019, 11:57 PM
I also would like to test my wife since she has documented west asian ancestors including her father's direct line from late 18th century . Though not in near future since I have already crossed the budget by a big margin .

glad I'm not the only one :|

bmoney
01-28-2019, 01:41 AM
I had mentioned earlier - he is a nambiar with no recent past history of nambudiri admixture.

Could you get his G25 so Poi can add it to a Nambiar average

What is his ydna L M27? Use morley

bmoney
01-28-2019, 02:03 AM
I also would like to test my wife since she has documented west asian ancestors including her father's direct line from late 18th century . Though not in near future since I have already crossed the budget by a big margin .

Which part of West Asia?

BMG
01-28-2019, 02:32 AM
Which part of West Asia?
Her family is part of Tholanikunnel family who traced their ancestry to a person called Addai . I think he was a person who accompanied a Jacobite prelate and settled down here so could be from Turkey/Syria . Another person in the family tree is one having surname Haddad . Not much details is known about him .

bmoney
01-28-2019, 05:31 AM
I checked Genesis 1 to many and got a confirmed new Nair 'Kookal' is that a tharavad? at #2 match!. Most of my other matches are Europeans and a few TamBrams and 1 Pillai
Check this out! almost exactly the same except my swapping of Med for SW Asian

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 45.22
2 Baloch 36.41
3 Caucasian 6.84
4 NE-Euro 4.99
5 SW-Asian 2.22
6 SE-Asian 1.73
7 Siberian 1.23
8 Papuan 0.84
9 Beringian 0.2
10 San 0.13
11 W-African 0.12
12 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 meghawal (reich) 2.84
2 maharashtrian (harappa) 2.85
3 tn-brahmin (xing) 3.19
4 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 3.27
5 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 3.34
6 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 3.89
7 rajasthani (harappa) 4
8 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 4
9 gujarati (harappa) 4.31
10 kerala-christian (harappa) 4.74
11 gujarati-b (hapmap) 4.79
12 ap-brahmin (xing) 4.94
13 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 4.97
14 kerala-nair (harappa) 5
15 bihari-muslim (harappa) 5.02
16 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 5.78
17 up (harappa) 6.09
18 vaish (reich) 6.11
19 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 7.07
20 bihari (harappa) 7.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 38.3% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.54
2 53% punjabi (harappa) + 47% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.65
3 77.4% meghawal (reich) + 22.6% cochin-jew (behar) @ 1.75
4 57.3% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 42.7% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.8
5 50.1% sindhi (harappa) + 49.9% vysya (reich) @ 1.81
6 55.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 44.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) @ 1.82
7 59.8% sinhalese (harappa) + 40.2% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.84
8 63.2% sinhalese (harappa) + 36.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.87
9 53.3% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 46.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.87
10 58.2% tamil (harappa) + 41.8% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 1.87
11 64.1% sinhalese (harappa) + 35.9% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.88
12 83.3% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 16.7% pashtun (harappa) @ 1.9
13 69.5% karnataka (harappa) + 30.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.91
14 77.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 22.4% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.92
15 60.3% punjabi (harappa) + 39.7% vysya (reich) @ 1.92
16 50.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 49.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.92
17 69.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) + 30.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.93
18 65.5% karnataka (harappa) + 34.5% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.94
19 54.5% vysya (reich) + 45.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.95
20 90.7% meghawal (reich) + 9.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.97

Rustyshakelford
01-28-2019, 05:53 AM
Her family is part of Tholanikunnel family who traced their ancestry to a person called Addai . I think he was a person who accompanied a Jacobite prelate and settled down here so could be from Turkey/Syria . Another person in the family tree is one having surname Haddad . Not much details is known about him .

Was the prelate Mor Anthrayos? Parumala thirumeni is A descendent of one of the brothers of this bishop who came along from Syria and decided to settle down in Kerala. Maybe she’s related to this line.

Kart
01-28-2019, 04:39 PM
I checked Genesis 1 to many and got a confirmed new Nair 'Kookal' is that a tharavad? at #2 match!. Most of my other matches are Europeans and a few TamBrams and 1 Pillai
Check this out! almost exactly the same except my swapping of Med for SW Asian

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 45.22
2 Baloch 36.41
3 Caucasian 6.84
4 NE-Euro 4.99
5 SW-Asian 2.22
6 SE-Asian 1.73
7 Siberian 1.23
8 Papuan 0.84
9 Beringian 0.2
10 San 0.13
11 W-African 0.12
12 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 meghawal (reich) 2.84
2 maharashtrian (harappa) 2.85
3 tn-brahmin (xing) 3.19
4 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 3.27
5 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 3.34
6 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 3.89
7 rajasthani (harappa) 4
8 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 4
9 gujarati (harappa) 4.31
10 kerala-christian (harappa) 4.74
11 gujarati-b (hapmap) 4.79
12 ap-brahmin (xing) 4.94
13 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 4.97
14 kerala-nair (harappa) 5
15 bihari-muslim (harappa) 5.02
16 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 5.78
17 up (harappa) 6.09
18 vaish (reich) 6.11
19 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 7.07
20 bihari (harappa) 7.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 38.3% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.54
2 53% punjabi (harappa) + 47% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.65
3 77.4% meghawal (reich) + 22.6% cochin-jew (behar) @ 1.75
4 57.3% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 42.7% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.8
5 50.1% sindhi (harappa) + 49.9% vysya (reich) @ 1.81
6 55.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 44.3% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) @ 1.82
7 59.8% sinhalese (harappa) + 40.2% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.84
8 63.2% sinhalese (harappa) + 36.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.87
9 53.3% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 46.7% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.87
10 58.2% tamil (harappa) + 41.8% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 1.87
11 64.1% sinhalese (harappa) + 35.9% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.88
12 83.3% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 16.7% pashtun (harappa) @ 1.9
13 69.5% karnataka (harappa) + 30.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.91
14 77.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 22.4% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.92
15 60.3% punjabi (harappa) + 39.7% vysya (reich) @ 1.92
16 50.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 49.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.92
17 69.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) + 30.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.93
18 65.5% karnataka (harappa) + 34.5% sindhi (harappa) @ 1.94
19 54.5% vysya (reich) + 45.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.95
20 90.7% meghawal (reich) + 9.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 1.97

Looks like Kookal (unfortunate name lol) is a Nambiar(Nair caste) tharavadu.

BMG
01-28-2019, 05:16 PM
Was the prelate Mor Anthrayos? Parumala thirumeni is A descendent of one of the brothers of this bishop who came along from Syria and decided to settle down in Kerala. Maybe she’s related to this line.
I think the prelate was Mor Sakralla .There are contradictory stories regarding when he came . Some stories say he came along with Mor Sakralla and some say he came with another party before and later assisted Mor Sakralla when he came here . The other person named Haddad came here to teach Syriac during early 19th century as per the family story .He also belonged to Syriac orthodox Church .

vishankar
01-28-2019, 07:12 PM
Looks like Kookal (unfortunate name lol) is a Nambiar(Nair caste) tharavadu.

hey dear bmoney, kookal is my wife's aunty( wife's paternal uncles wife) -eleyamma- kodoth thravad....!!!!

Kart
01-28-2019, 07:13 PM
hey dear bmoney, kookal is my wife's aunty( wife's paternal uncles wife) -eleyamma- kodoth thravad....!!!!

hahahahaha that's funny.

bmoney
01-28-2019, 10:27 PM
hey dear bmoney, kookal is my wife's aunty( wife's paternal uncles wife) -eleyamma- kodoth thravad....!!!!

Elayamma haha you are getting the language

Woohoo! thanks guys. Ive already emailed her

Im both Kodoth and Vengayil (biggest Kasargod clans), but ive never heard of Kookal. Guessing they are Kasargod too. Limited data but its interesting that genetic differences are minimal suggesting bigger houses do not practice any form of hypergamy that distinguishes them from lower houses. I bet this lady has no Brahmin admix as well

Nambiars are everywhere in North Kerala from rich to poor. Cpt Krishnan Nair, the UN Nambiar brothers Vijay and Satish (both related via marriage) EK Nayanar are some of the more prominent ones

I once asked my gdad what caste our domestic helper was as she was fairer skinned than most of my family. He said shes Nambiar and would be insulted if you suggested otherwise

Nayanar is a title adopted by some more powerful Nambiar clans who want to elevate themselves above normal Nambiars but I doubt theres any difference in origin

Kart
01-28-2019, 10:31 PM
Elayamma haha you are getting the language

Woohoo! thanks guys. Ive already emailed her

Im both Kodoth and Vengayil (biggest Kasargod clans), but ive never heard of Kookal. Guessing they are Kasargod too. Limited data but its interesting that genetic differences are minimal suggesting bigger houses do not practice any form of hypergamy that distinguishes them from lower houses. I bet this lady has no Brahmin admix as well

Nambiars are everywhere in North Kerala from rich to poor. Cpt Krishnan Nair, the UN Nambiar brothers Vijay and Satish (both related via marriage) EK Nayanar are some of the more prominent ones

I once asked my gdad what caste our domestic helper was as she was fairer skinned than most of my family. He said shes Nambiar and would be insulted if you suggested otherwise

Nayanar is a title adopted by some more powerful Nambiar clans who want to elevate themselves above normal Nambiars but I doubt theres any difference in origin

Most of the Nairs in Kannur and Kasargod are Nambiars right? What are the other surnames found there?

bmoney
01-28-2019, 10:46 PM
Most of the Nairs in Kannur and Kasargod are Nambiars right? What are the other surnames found there?

Nair is uncommon and odd tbh. I'm not exactly sure why people use Nair over there, maybe Vishankar knows.

Most people use Nambiar, or Nayanar along with the tharavadu name.

Depending on how renowned your tharavad is, people have also stopped using Nambiar this generation. My last name is my GMGM tharavadu (mtdna line) which is located near the Kannur/Kodagu border though it kind of doesn't make sense as its only one of many houses i'm related to and I havent really visited there beyond 3 or so times in my lifetime. Also we are still very strongly matrilineal, in family gatherings we usually stick to our maternal clans despite somehow all being related in some way. Is this the case in other regions? I heard even Mappilas in our region are matrilineal unlike other regions of Kerala

Also can people tell me about Central Kerala Nairs. For example Shashi Tharoor, what are those Nairs like and what customs distinguish them?

vishankar
01-29-2019, 02:27 AM
Elayamma haha you are getting the language

Woohoo! thanks guys. Ive already emailed her

Im both Kodoth and Vengayil (biggest Kasargod clans), but ive never heard of Kookal. Guessing they are Kasargod too. Limited data but its interesting that genetic differences are minimal suggesting bigger houses do not practice any form of hypergamy that distinguishes them from lower houses. I bet this lady has no Brahmin admix as well

Nambiars are everywhere in North Kerala from rich to poor. Cpt Krishnan Nair, the UN Nambiar brothers Vijay and Satish (both related via marriage) EK Nayanar are some of the more prominent ones

I once asked my gdad what caste our domestic helper was as she was fairer skinned than most of my family. He said shes Nambiar and would be insulted if you suggested otherwise

Nayanar is a title adopted by some more powerful Nambiar clans who want to elevate themselves above normal Nambiars but I doubt theres any difference in origin


I think Kookal is the maternal surname, paternal kodoth, I will check!

vishankar
01-29-2019, 02:31 AM
Elayamma haha you are getting the language

Woohoo! thanks guys. Ive already emailed her

Im both Kodoth and Vengayil (biggest Kasargod clans), but ive never heard of Kookal. Guessing they are Kasargod too. Limited data but its interesting that genetic differences are minimal suggesting bigger houses do not practice any form of hypergamy that distinguishes them from lower houses. I bet this lady has no Brahmin admix as well

Nambiars are everywhere in North Kerala from rich to poor. Cpt Krishnan Nair, the UN Nambiar brothers Vijay and Satish (both related via marriage) EK Nayanar are some of the more prominent ones

I once asked my gdad what caste our domestic helper was as she was fairer skinned than most of my family. He said shes Nambiar and would be insulted if you suggested otherwise

Nayanar is a title adopted by some more powerful Nambiar clans who want to elevate themselves above normal Nambiars but I doubt theres any difference in origin


I think Capt Krishnan Nair is a Vaniya...

bmoney
01-29-2019, 02:33 AM
I think Capt Krishnan Nair is a Vaniya...

What is a Vaniya? that might explain the Nair surname

vishankar
01-29-2019, 02:37 AM
vaniyan nair is the oil- presser caste of malabar,many of them tag the nair surname.

vishankar
01-29-2019, 05:50 PM
as the kookal nambiar kit harappa is already posted I will post a thiyya lady from payyanur-







Population
S-Indian 50.10 Pct
Baloch 34.29 Pct
Caucasian 5.22 Pct
NE-Euro 1.66 Pct
SE-Asian 1.07 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian 0.70 Pct
Papuan 1.93 Pct
American 0.36 Pct
Beringian 0.64 Pct
Mediterranean 0.37 Pct
SW-Asian 3.11 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy 0.15 Pct
W-African 0.40 Pct

Kart
01-29-2019, 10:41 PM
SW Asian is high in this kit too. Looks like most mid or or upper caste (except Brahmins) Malayalees show this pattern.

bmoney
01-29-2019, 10:54 PM
SW Asian is high in this kit

It’s high in nearly every Kerala kit

Ain’t nothing but a Kerala thang

Kart
01-29-2019, 10:56 PM
Itís high in nearly every Kerala kit

Ainít nothing but a Kerala thang

Yep... I wanted to see the nmonte on this kit though.

But look, this kit shows some W African too. That could point to ME ancestry right?

Mandoos
01-29-2019, 11:00 PM
It’s high in nearly every Kerala kit

Ain’t nothing but a Kerala thang

NW Indians can score similar if not higher amounts of SW Asian. I virtually have none lol

26284729292
01-29-2019, 11:02 PM
NW Indians can score similar if not higher amounts of SW Asian. I virtually have none lol

In harappa, we really only see this in Khatris and Gujarati Muslims. Everyone else IIRC (maybe not hyderabadi muslims) scores negligible amounts of SW asian (you don't count misanthropy).

Mandoos
01-29-2019, 11:03 PM
In harappa, we really only see this in Khatris and Gujarati Muslims. Everyone else IIRC (maybe not hyderabadi muslims) scores negligible amounts of SW asian (you don't count misanthropy).

Wasn't midichlorian's around 4%?

bmoney
01-29-2019, 11:05 PM
NW Indians can score similar if not higher amounts of SW Asian. I virtually have none lol

Could you post the kits that do

I checked a lot of UP samples that barely score any

And I barely donít either

bmoney
01-29-2019, 11:07 PM
Yep... I wanted to see the nmonte on this kit though.

But look, this kit shows some W African too. That could point to ME ancestry right?

Not sure. Pegasus mentioned it could be archaic basal Eurasian which isnít modern SSA related

26284729292
01-29-2019, 11:09 PM
Wasn't midichlorian's around 4%?

Possibly. It's quite uncommon in most Patel samples I've seen tho.

vishankar
01-30-2019, 02:56 AM
JUST got my wife's mt dna- nambiar+ payyanurr poduval. It is haplogorup R

bmoney
01-30-2019, 03:23 AM
JUST got my wife's mt dna- nambiar+ payyanurr poduval. It is haplogorup R

Anything deeper?

vishankar
01-30-2019, 03:28 AM
Anything deeper?

nope....wil test deeper in the course of time!:beerchug:

Censored
01-30-2019, 04:00 AM
Why do some people randomly score high Caucasian and others score very little to none? Does that have to do with BMAC related ancestry? I know that many of those BMAC samples were heavily CHG. Of course the categories on harappa dont correlate well either with modern or ancient samples for some reason...for example Barcin is like 36% Caucasian while Yamnaya(which is actually 50% CHG) is only 6%...

bmoney
01-30-2019, 06:37 AM
Why do some people randomly score high Caucasian and others score very little to none? Does that have to do with BMAC related ancestry? I know that many of those BMAC samples were heavily CHG. Of course the categories on harappa dont correlate well either with modern or ancient samples for some reason...for example Barcin is like 36% Caucasian while Yamnaya(which is actually 50% CHG) is only 6%...

Baloch/Caucasian Iran N crossover, though I'm guessing that the Caucasian component seems to have additional Barcin as it is quite high in Persians

Hard to say if its BMAC or IVC. CHG and Iran N are heavily related however - what does the CHG sample score like on HAP? should be majority Baloch with some other stuff

pnb123
01-30-2019, 07:39 AM
Baloch/Caucasian Iran N crossover, though I'm guessing that the Caucasian component seems to have additional Barcin as it is quite high in Persians

Hard to say if its BMAC or IVC. CHG and Iran N are heavily related however - what does the CHG sample score like on HAP? should be majority Baloch with some other stuff
sorted):
Satsurblia Cave Sample (I guess this is CHG):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 50.76
2 Baloch 40.65
3 NE-Euro 5.70
4 W-African 1.84

Iranian Neolithic:
sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 62.71
2 Caucasian 24.97
3 S-Indian 6.13
4 SW-Asian 3.88
5 W-African 1.78

Idk how much Baloch component in this calculator overlaps with Caucasian, but this Baloch component captures both ANE & ENF type admixture. CHG seems to have double the Caucasian component compared to Iran_N.

Censored
01-30-2019, 08:52 AM
sorted):
Satsurblia Cave Sample (I guess this is CHG):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 50.76
2 Baloch 40.65
3 NE-Euro 5.70
4 W-African 1.84

Iranian Neolithic:
sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 62.71
2 Caucasian 24.97
3 S-Indian 6.13
4 SW-Asian 3.88
5 W-African 1.78

Idk how much Baloch component in this calculator overlaps with Caucasian, but this Baloch component captures both ANE & ENF type admixture. CHG seems to have double the Caucasian component compared to Iran_N.

Iran N also had some minor Onge like admixture. Fascinating it shows up in Harappa as well...

bmoney
01-30-2019, 12:45 PM
Iran N also had some minor Onge like admixture. Fascinating it shows up in Harappa as well...

see its not bad at all

Yup Iran N had some ENA admix

Interesting that CHG is also scoring it (at a higher level)

bmoney
01-30-2019, 12:53 PM
sorted):
Satsurblia Cave Sample (I guess this is CHG):
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 50.76
2 Baloch 40.65
3 NE-Euro 5.70
4 W-African 1.84

Iranian Neolithic:
sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 62.71
2 Caucasian 24.97
3 S-Indian 6.13
4 SW-Asian 3.88
5 W-African 1.78

Idk how much Baloch component in this calculator overlaps with Caucasian, but this Baloch component captures both ANE & ENF type admixture. CHG seems to have double the Caucasian component compared to Iran_N.

that translates to CHG contributed twice as much to modern Caucasians

Im pretty sure its only slightly different to Iran N though given the overlap, but CHG contributed to NE Euros whereas Baloch type Iran N didn't according to these results

pnb123
01-30-2019, 06:21 PM
that translates to CHG contributed twice as much to modern Caucasians

Im pretty sure its only slightly different to Iran N though given the overlap, but CHG contributed to NE Euros whereas Baloch type Iran N didn't according to these results
On PCA, they’re close to each other than any other ancient pop, so they must pretty similar to each other.

vishankar
02-07-2019, 05:20 PM
need to keep this thread going!....i was going through my wife's family finder matches- father-in-law( of course!!:)
2-possible havyak brahmin surname- bhat.
3- possible tamil brahmin- narayanan.
4- nair.
5- surname mhaskar- chitpawan brahmin.
6- surname dhaliwal- jat sikh lady.
7- mhaskar again!
8- the ubiquitous nasrani!...cheriyan...

vishankar
02-07-2019, 05:46 PM
the chitpawan and jat sikh were A little surprising....i have mentioned this earlier about my wife being nambiar from pa- in law side and payyanur poduval from ma- in law....!MY father in laws matches include- 1) yet again a cheriyan 2) another nair 3) possible tam bram -narayanan. 4) possible american surname ahwah...
the payyanur poduvals have a history of being migrants- from the union of 10 ladies from north india with local males-possibly nairs/nambiars!
it seems the payyanur subramanya temple fell on bad times when it was managed by tamil brahmins, who were then replaced by 10 families of poduvals- the patthuveetil poduval founded by those 10 ladies, these poduvals are known as " cousins of lord kartikeya",
I find this very interesting as usually it is migrant males who cohabit with local females, rather than the other way round!

vishankar
02-07-2019, 06:03 PM
again my wife's harappa- she is more NE euro influenced at 4.21 than my father in law at 3.10, although i dont know whether this difference carries any significance,what i feel though is north malabar and kasargod would possibly have different population genetic histories from the rest of kerala!I have asked for a full mt dna sequence of my wife's mt dna gp- R.

BMG
02-09-2019, 09:42 AM
Bmoney banned again?
Vishankar can you post hvr1 sequence of your wife ? I am also R specifically R30a1c . I could guess many of the Indian R subclades with their HVR1 .

vishankar
02-09-2019, 04:11 PM
hi BMG... i am sending it
HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS -

A16129G
T16187C
C16189T
T16223C
G16230A
C16260T
C16261T
T16278C
C16311T
G16319A
T16362C
C16519T
G16526A

HVR1 REFERENCE SEQUENCE
Show All Positions
Position CRS Your Result
16260 C T
16261 C T
16319 G A
16362 T C
16526 G A.

vishankar
02-09-2019, 04:12 PM
I spent about 11k rs for the full sequencing....it has not arrived as yet!, if i knew you could do the same i would have been spared the moolah!:)

vishankar
02-09-2019, 04:14 PM
@ BMG.... would you have any similar ideas for U1 mt dna( my mt dna)...I have a feeling it may be similar to Mandoos!

BMG
02-09-2019, 06:00 PM
hi BMG... i am sending it
HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS -

A16129G
T16187C
C16189T
T16223C
G16230A
C16260T
C16261T
T16278C
C16311T
G16319A
T16362C
C16519T
G16526A

HVR1 REFERENCE SEQUENCE
Show All Positions
Position CRS Your Result
16260 C T
16261 C T
16319 G A
16362 T C
16526 G A.

Haplogroup is R7a . Full sequence would reveal further subclades

BMG
02-09-2019, 06:11 PM
I spent about 11k rs for the full sequencing....it has not arrived as yet!, if i knew you could do the same i would have been spared the moolah!:)

The full sequence will add to the details and surely will be an asset to south asian database . But it is too costly . For me i stopped with geno 2.0 for mtdna . My relatives mtdna data is from 23andme v4 which was enough for me to predict the subclades though it lacked few improtant sites and had many no-calls .

Rustyshakelford
02-12-2019, 04:16 AM
found some Karnataka/konkan/marathi kits on genesis, guessing most of these are brahmins:

Surname Nayak:

1 S-Indian 44.44
2 Baloch 36.63
3 NE-Euro 7.08
4 Caucasian 6.18
5 SW-Asian 1.74
6 Siberian 0.95
7 Papuan 0.72
8 SE-Asian 0.66
9 Mediterranean 0.59
10 Beringian 0.49
11 NE-Asian 0.48
12 American 0.05


Surname: Karkera/kamath

1 S-Indian 49.02
2 Baloch 34.78
3 NE-Euro 5.2
4 Caucasian 5.12
5 SW-Asian 1.96
6 NE-Asian 1.44
7 Beringian 0.91
8 American 0.56
9 Mediterranean 0.47
10 Siberian 0.24
11 Papuan 0.17
12 Pygmy 0.12


Surname: Kamath

1 S-Indian 46.7
2 Baloch 36.13
3 Caucasian 8.3
4 NE-Euro 5.18
5 Beringian 1.79
6 Papuan 1.36
7 NE-Asian 0.38
8 Siberian 0.15


Surname: Kamath

1 S-Indian 45.4
2 Baloch 35.62
3 NE-Euro 7.17
4 Caucasian 5.03
5 SW-Asian 1.53
6 Mediterranean 1.5
7 NE-Asian 1.45
8 Siberian 1.12
9 American 0.99
10 Beringian 0.18


Surname: Shenvi

1 S-Indian 45.49
2 Baloch 35.47
3 NE-Euro 6.92
4 Caucasian 6.25
5 Beringian 1.37
6 SW-Asian 1.32
7 NE-Asian 1.01
8 Papuan 0.6
9 Pygmy 0.58
10 SE-Asian 0.57
11 Siberian 0.42

26284729292
02-12-2019, 04:39 AM
found some Karnataka/konkan/marathi kits on genesis, guessing most of these are brahmins:

Surname Nayak:

1 S-Indian 44.44
2 Baloch 36.63
3 NE-Euro 7.08
4 Caucasian 6.18
5 SW-Asian 1.74
6 Siberian 0.95
7 Papuan 0.72
8 SE-Asian 0.66
9 Mediterranean 0.59
10 Beringian 0.49
11 NE-Asian 0.48
12 American 0.05


Surname: Karkera/kamath

1 S-Indian 49.02
2 Baloch 34.78
3 NE-Euro 5.2
4 Caucasian 5.12
5 SW-Asian 1.96
6 NE-Asian 1.44
7 Beringian 0.91
8 American 0.56
9 Mediterranean 0.47
10 Siberian 0.24
11 Papuan 0.17
12 Pygmy 0.12


Surname: Kamath

1 S-Indian 46.7
2 Baloch 36.13
3 Caucasian 8.3
4 NE-Euro 5.18
5 Beringian 1.79
6 Papuan 1.36
7 NE-Asian 0.38
8 Siberian 0.15


Surname: Kamath

1 S-Indian 45.4
2 Baloch 35.62
3 NE-Euro 7.17
4 Caucasian 5.03
5 SW-Asian 1.53
6 Mediterranean 1.5
7 NE-Asian 1.45
8 Siberian 1.12
9 American 0.99
10 Beringian 0.18


Surname: Shenvi

1 S-Indian 45.49
2 Baloch 35.47
3 NE-Euro 6.92
4 Caucasian 6.25
5 Beringian 1.37
6 SW-Asian 1.32
7 NE-Asian 1.01
8 Papuan 0.6
9 Pygmy 0.58
10 SE-Asian 0.57
11 Siberian 0.42

These are chitpavan surnames.

I score nearly identical to these kits (45 south indian, 35 baloch, about 7% euro and 5% caucasus) with slightly higher NE asian and lower med in some cases. Though I think american and beringian along with NE asian and siberian are all steppe tied in some fashion.

Do note that I did find a chitpavan kit on another site in looking where they scored 5% caucasus and 3% NE euro. The brahmins along the konkan coast are remarkably homogenous until they hit close to gujarat, where you start seeing a large NW shift in brahmins. Phenotype actually doesn't reflect this though, although there are quite a few explanations for this. Something we could talk more about in the pheno thread.

Now that our former friend/poster is gone (I won't reference it beyond this post), and I have an interest in kerala and some maternal ties to pallakkad, I will do my best to assume his place and add some meaningful content here :) .

BMG
02-12-2019, 02:42 PM
These are chitpavan surnames


They are not chitapavan but gsb's . Kamath and Shenoy are exclusive konkani(gsb/rsb/csb) surnames . Nayak is also used by gsb but also by many other marathi brahmin and non-brahmin communities . Karkera is a Billava surname .

vishankar
02-12-2019, 04:41 PM
yeah ...GSB surnames Karkera is billava like BMG said

26284729292
02-13-2019, 06:24 AM
They are not chitapavan but gsb's . Kamath and Shenoy are exclusive konkani(gsb/rsb/csb) surnames . Nayak is also used by gsb but also by many other marathi brahmin and non-brahmin communities . Karkera is a Billava surname .

This is my bad. They speak konkani so I tend to confuse them. GSB covers quite a broad range of brams in the area, no?

Jatt1
02-13-2019, 09:37 AM
need to keep this thread going!....i was going through my wife's family finder matches- father-in-law( of course!!:)
2-possible havyak brahmin surname- bhat.
3- possible tamil brahmin- narayanan.
4- nair.
5- surname mhaskar- chitpawan brahmin.
6- surname dhaliwal- jat sikh lady.
7- mhaskar again!
8- the ubiquitous nasrani!...cheriyan...

And that Dhaliwal could be my niece, she is only a child. Must be some other Dhaliwal as her kit is 23andme.

BMG
02-13-2019, 03:07 PM
This is my bad. They speak konkani so I tend to confuse them. GSB covers quite a broad range of brams in the area, no?
Chitapavan are Marathi speaking although they are called konkanasth . Their dialect sounds like konkani though and have some similarity with konkani since they were originally konkani speaking . They are different from gaud saraswats who speak konkani as mother tongue but often are bilingual speaking Marathi , Kannada or Malayalam fluently depending on the place .Some of the Rajapur saraswats speak Marathi as their mother tongue . Again not all konkani brahmins are saraswats. There are other Brahmin sects like daivajna and madhwa Brahmins .
Gaud saraswats are specific group of Brahmins and does not include a broad range . In my opinion they tend to marry within themselves while other Marathi and Kannada Brahmins doesn't care much as long they are brahmins especially Marathi ones . The common surnames among GSB include Pai , Kamat , Shenoy , Prabhu ,Nayak ,Rao ,Bhat ,Kini etc . Out of these first three are specific to these saraswats .

BMG
02-14-2019, 04:26 PM
Another Kerala Christian match . First time I am seeing a result resembling my paternal grandmother
1. S-Indian 50.05
2 Baloch 35.75
3 NE-Euro 4.62
4 Caucasian 3.44
5 SW-Asian 2.42
6 NE-Asian 2.17
7 SE-Asian 1.3
8 Siberian 0.26



This kit have his ydna C-K96 ,a subclade of C-P92 which is my paternal grandmother's side ydna . Interesting

vishankar
02-14-2019, 05:53 PM
tomorrow I am travelling to mangalore for a bunt sample...!!!:)

vishankar
02-14-2019, 05:55 PM
i will post some harappa results of individuals with surname pillai here-nair pillais i presume-

pillai male- i have a feeling this has been posted here before-
Population
S-Indian 50.89 Pct
Baloch 35.62 Pct
Caucasian 7.13 Pct
NE-Euro 2.30 Pct
SE-Asian 0.41 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian 1.47 Pct
Papuan 0.86 Pct
American 0.59 Pct
Beringian 0.33 Pct
Mediterranean 0.15 Pct
SW-Asian 0.25 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African

vishankar
02-14-2019, 05:55 PM
pillai lady-
Population
S-Indian 53.34 Pct
Baloch 32.66 Pct
Caucasian 4.68 Pct
NE-Euro 3.75 Pct
SE-Asian 0.60 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian -
Papuan 1.16 Pct
American 1.12 Pct
Beringian -
Mediterranean 2.09 Pct
SW-Asian 0.48 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African 0.12 Pct

vishankar
02-14-2019, 05:57 PM
pillai lady 2-
Population
S-Indian 50.06 Pct
Baloch 33.94 Pct
Caucasian 2.34 Pct
NE-Euro 7.36 Pct
SE-Asian 0.17 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.67 Pct
American 1.19 Pct
Beringian 1.90 Pct
Mediterranean 2.26 Pct
SW-Asian -
San -
E-African -
Pygmy 0.12 Pct
W-African

this a amazingly high value for NE euro! and nil SW asian!...

vishankar
02-14-2019, 05:58 PM
pillai male 2-
Population
S-Indian 48.39 Pct
Baloch 34.60 Pct
Caucasian 6.61 Pct
NE-Euro 4.61 Pct
SE-Asian 1.32 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.66 Pct
American 0.61 Pct
Beringian 2.03 Pct
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 1.02 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

vishankar
02-14-2019, 06:04 PM
it was pillai lady 2 's harappa which caught my attention, I have never seen this high NE euro in any mallu kits!....also all these 4 pillais have low sw asian, whereas Kart seems to have an elevated sw asian value...all of them also appear to be more south indian influenced ( around 50%) at least, even i have a low sw asian value-.74%.
its almost like a ASI+ STEPPE admixture with possibly a very minimal IVC component ,when the surname is pillai!

Rustyshakelford
02-15-2019, 01:21 AM
it was pillai lady 2 's harappa which caught my attention, I have never seen this high NE euro in any mallu kits!....also all these 4 pillais have low sw asian, whereas Kart seems to have an elevated sw asian value...all of them also appear to be more south indian influenced ( around 50%) at least, even i have a low sw asian value-.74%.
its almost like a ASI+ STEPPE admixture with possibly a very minimal IVC component ,when the surname is pillai!

How many SNPs were evaluated? Some of the kits on genesis have poor SNP overlap which leads to weirdly inflated components.

vishankar
02-15-2019, 01:31 AM
How many SNPs were evaluated? Some of the kits on genesis have poor SNP overlap which leads to weirdly inflated components.

52573 SNPs it seems... as on Harappa

Rustyshakelford
02-15-2019, 01:45 AM
52573 SNPs it seems... as on Harappa

Yeah I think it might just be the low SNP count. I noticed this with some of my new matches in genesis. Here’s a Knanaya one that scores almost 9 percent SW Asian. It also has low SNP coverage (~50,000). Normal used to be around 150,000+

S-Indian 45.28 Pct
Baloch 33.95 Pct
Caucasian 7.12 Pct
NE-Euro 2.73 Pct
SE-Asian 0.47 Pct
Siberian 0.71 Pct
NE-Asian 0.26 Pct
Papuan 0.32 Pct
American 0.17 Pct
Beringian -
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 8.83 Pct
San 0.16 Pct
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

vishankar
02-15-2019, 03:07 PM
by the way I got a clarification from Family tree DNA about my father in law's Y DNA hapgroup - it is H-M69, :P...not J2B or L 27 as earlier hypothesised!

vishankar
02-16-2019, 02:52 AM
Haplogroup is R7a . Full sequence would reveal further subclades

@BMG... you are a genius! her haplogroup is R7A1!

vishankar
02-16-2019, 03:27 PM
52573 SNPs it seems... as on Harappa

You are right Rusty... when i compared bmoney's 2 kits, one after the V-M conversion, the converted kit had less NE euro than the original 23 and Me one!

Jatt1
02-16-2019, 09:32 PM
You are right Rusty... when i compared bmoney's 2 kits, one after the V-M conversion, the converted kit had less NE euro than the original 23 and Me one!

Take the original one being correct.

aaronbee2010
02-16-2019, 10:55 PM
by the way I got a clarification from Family tree DNA about my father in law's Y DNA hapgroup - it is H-M69, :P...not J2B or L 27 as earlier hypothesised!

H-M69 is still not rare for your community I'm guessing. I thought my maternal uncle would come under L-M357 or R1a-Z93, and turns out he's a special unicorn who comes under R1b-Z2103, which is extremely rare for our community lol

vishankar
02-17-2019, 05:08 AM
H-M69 is still not rare for your community I'm guessing. I thought my maternal uncle would come under L-M357 or R1a-Z93, and turns out he's a special unicorn who comes under R1b-Z2103, which is extremely rare for our community lol

I should think H-M 69 is the prime Y DNA haplogroup of the neolithic farmers( possible dravidian speakers), and in north malabar among the nambiars there is relatively less admixture with Brahmins , so the fatherline should have preserved the original hap groups.H-M 69 is very common in south India, I reckon, among the cultivating castes.
But if I am looking for a correlation with NE euro, I am not getting it because although he is not a R1a-Z93 individual, he has 3.10 % NE euro on Harappa...

R1b is extremely rare in India I presume, from my understanding it is a Western European Haplogroup!

tipirneni
02-17-2019, 05:17 AM
I should think H-M 69 is the prime Y DNA haplogroup of the neolithic farmers( possible dravidian speakers), and in north malabar among the nambiars there is relatively less admixture with Brahmins , so the fatherline should have preserved the original hap groups.H-M 69 is very common in south India, I reckon, among the cultivating castes.
But if I am looking for a correlation with NE euro, I am not getting it because although he is not a R1a-Z93 individual, he has 3.10 % NE euro on Harappa...

R1b is extremely rare in India I presume, from my understanding it is a Western European Haplogroup!

H1a is also heavily present in West/Central/Bengal/Hindi Heartland in many middle/upper/lower castes like close to 25%. Even in Pakistan & Bangladesh & Nepal there are good number of them

BMG
02-17-2019, 09:05 AM
Some common mtdna among Syrian Christian's with HVR1 sequences
R5a2b4 - 16266T, 16304C, 16309G, 16325C, 16356C
M2a1c - 16176T , 16223T ,16270T, 16274A, 16319A, 16352C
M5a1 - 16129A, 16291T
M5a - 16129A , 16223T
M3 - 16126C, 16185T, 16223T
M3d1 - 16126C, 16223T, 16344T
R30a - 16172C, 16278T
M6a - 16223T, 16231C, 16311C, 16362C
M35a - 16176T, 16223T
M44a - 16183C, 16189C, 16223T, 16301T