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R.Rocca
07-20-2014, 01:38 PM
http://a4.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODg2NTc0MDky.jpg

I recently tested kit no. 174343 (James Lincoln, 1875-1967) for R-L2 and he came up positive. The Lincoln surname match and a 36/37 match with kit no. 130589 (Edward Lincoln, b.c. 1575, Hingham, England) makes them almost certainly related. The historical significance is that Edward Lincoln was the great-great-great-great-great-grandfather of Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president of the United States.

These two kits and all other ancestors of Samuel "the Weaver" Lincoln (Edward Lincoln's son who migrated to the United States) in the Lincoln surname project have very close STR haplotypes:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Lincoln/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

Therefore, barring a NPE, Abraham Lincoln was also U152+ L2+.

Of related interest, there is an L2+ Washington in the Washington surname project, but there are several M269 haplotypes that may not be related.

Pigmon
07-20-2014, 02:19 PM
Hingham, England is in Norfolk and only 17 miles from Norwich. Interesting to me because brothers or cousins of my ancestor (or possibly my ancestor) are in the area of Norwich and Hunstanton, Norfolk near the time frame of 1575 in Hunstanton and later in Norwich.

Also I know this really doesn't mean much but descendants of Thomas "the husbandman" Lincoln match me at the first 12 markers!

153853 R-M269 13 23 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 13 29

Is there a y-DNA study of Norfolk anywhere? It would be interesting to look at our L2+ representation there!

Agamemnon
07-20-2014, 06:22 PM
Hingham is just 19 miles/25km away from Coney Weston (my maternal grandfather's ancestral village).

Pretty logical since this area is a U152 hotspot in Britain.

Any guesses regarding the subclade he belongs to?

R.Rocca
07-20-2014, 08:59 PM
Hingham is just 19 miles/25km away from Coney Weston (my maternal grandfather's ancestral village).

Pretty logical since this area is a U152 hotspot in Britain.

Any guesses regarding the subclade he belongs to?

The first two suspects in England would have to be Z49 or Z367. Genetic distances are closer with many more Z49 samples though.

MitchellSince1893
07-22-2014, 04:13 AM
I'm rooting for Z49 :)

I've got a genetic distance of 2 at 25 markers with a Lincoln but one of his likely relatives is a 17 GD at 67 markers with my father's kit. Both are L2

Pigmon
07-22-2014, 05:28 PM
Hi Mark,

I also match this Lincoln with a GD of 17 out of 67. Is this the same one your Father's y-DNA matches?

User ID Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
ZHHCY Pigman (Pigmon) R1b Z150/Z12222 England R1b1a2a1a1b3c* Family Tree DNA - -
D8K9S Lincoln Mecklenburg Co., NC, North Carolina, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 67 17

Curtis

MitchellSince1893
07-22-2014, 09:51 PM
Hi Mark,

I also match this Lincoln with a GD of 17 out of 67. Is this the same one your Father's y-DNA matches?

User ID Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
ZHHCY Pigman (Pigmon) R1b Z150/Z12222 England R1b1a2a1a1b3c* Family Tree DNA - -
D8K9S Lincoln Mecklenburg Co., NC, North Carolina, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 67 17

Curtis
My 67 17 match is 246973...first one listed under samuel the weaver. He's my closest match of that group because he's the only one with DYS391=10
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Lincoln/default.aspx?section=yresults

I doubt even remotely close connections with the Lincolns based on these genetic distances...but it would be nice bragging rights if President Lincoln ended up Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+

Scarlet Ibis
07-22-2014, 10:01 PM
Very interesting. I was tempted to share this bit of news with my family members, but then I remembered none of them are into genetic genealogy. So it would be too hard for me to explain why it's significant if we aren't related to him. :P

R.Rocca
12-04-2014, 03:40 PM
My 67 17 match is 246973...first one listed under samuel the weaver. He's my closest match of that group because he's the only one with DYS391=10
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Lincoln/default.aspx?section=yresults

I doubt even remotely close connections with the Lincolns based on these genetic distances...but it would be nice bragging rights if President Lincoln ended up Z49+ Z142+ Z150/Z12222+

Well, your wish has been granted...

Edward Lincoln was U152>L2>Z49>Z142>Z150, Z12222>FGC12378+ FGC12379+ FGC12380+ FGC12381+ FGC12382+

I have requested that the kit owner provide me with the BAM file since FGC12383 isn't reported on the Big-Y results page, so we'll see if he is positive for that one as well. This makes three samples from England, two from the Netherlands (GoNL Project) and one from Spain (1KG Project).

rms2
12-04-2014, 04:23 PM
How did I miss this thread when it was first posted? Anyway, very cool.

R.Rocca
12-04-2014, 04:34 PM
How did I miss this thread when it was first posted? Anyway, very cool.

Very cool indeed!

MitchellSince1893
12-04-2014, 06:38 PM
Well, your wish has been granted...

Edward Lincoln was U152>L2>Z49>Z142>Z150, Z12222>FGC12378+ FGC12379+ FGC12380+ FGC12381+ FGC12382+

I have requested that the kit owner provide me with the BAM file since FGC12383 isn't reported on the Big-Y results page, so we'll see if he is positive for that one as well. This makes three samples from England, two from the Netherlands (GoNL Project) and one from Spain (1KG Project).

HOLY CRAP!

I'm truly stunned by this revelation.

Not only is he L2>Z49>Z142>Z150, he's on my FGC123etc branch of Z150...a branch that didn't even exist a few months ago. What are the odds?

Well this is good news for increasing sales of SNP FGC12382 at YSEQ.

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=3086

The sales pitch could be,

Order this SNP to see if you are on the same paternal line as Abraham Lincoln

MitchellSince1893
12-04-2014, 07:10 PM
130589 Edward Lincoln, b.c. 1580, Norfolk, England does share some off modal STRs with my father

DYS 389i = 14
DYS 389ii = 30
Y-GATA-H4 = 10

So maybe this is an indication of even more shared SNPs below the current Z150>FGC123etc. terminal branch...fingers crossed.

R.Rocca
12-04-2014, 07:58 PM
130589 Edward Lincoln, b.c. 1580, Norfolk, England does share some off modal STRs with my father

DYS 389i = 14
DYS 389ii = 30
Y-GATA-H4 = 10

So maybe this is an indication of even more shared SNPs below the current Z150>FGC123etc. terminal branch...fingers crossed.

I haven't checked yet, but do any others have these three value?

MitchellSince1893
12-04-2014, 08:01 PM
Any other lincolns or any other Z150s?

MitchellSince1893
12-04-2014, 08:11 PM
I haven't checked yet, but do any others have these three value?
Z49+ folks (not tested below this level): N9622 Johannes Grauel, b. 1625, Schluctern, Hessen, Germ: DYS 389i = 14, DYS 389ii = 30, but Y-GATA-H4 = 11

Z142+ folks (not tested below this level): None have DYS 389i = 14 and DYS 389ii = 30. There are 3 with DYS 389i = 14 and DYS 389ii = 31 but none of these have Y-GATA-H4=10.

Z150+ folks (not tested below this level): None have DYS 389i = 14 and DYS 389ii = 30.
The Richard Harding branch of Z150 (CTS9490/24447090> CTS7970> CTS8125) has DYS 389i=14 and DYS 389ii = 30 but he's on a different branch of Z150, so he wouldn't count.

Z150>FGC123 etc. The only other current member of this branch, N115212 Stephen Brace, d. 1692, b. 1644 England doesn't have any of these values.


Also, didn't mention this before but Edward Lincoln's DYS 458 = 18. My father's DYS 458 = 19. Mode = 17.

MitchellSince1893
12-04-2014, 10:33 PM
Upon further review Y-GATA-H4 = 10 is probably not an indicator/significant marker as James Lincoln's H4 value = 11.

As mention earlier kit # 174343 James Lincoln shares 35 of 37 markers with 130589 Edward Lincoln.

The other difference between them is DYS607. James = 15, Edward = 14. The mode = 15.

Pigmon
12-04-2014, 11:02 PM
HOLY CRAP!

I'm truly stunned by this revelation.

Not only is he L2>Z49>Z142>Z150, he's on my FGC123etc branch of Z150...a branch that didn't even exist a few months ago. What are the odds?

Well this is good news for increasing sales of SNP FGC12382 at YSEQ.

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=3086

The sales pitch could be,

Mark and Richard,

I ordered FGC12382 17 Nov from yseq.net and I have been checking every day to see if the results are in. I will be checking twice a day now!


We got to visit his original cabin at Hodgenville, Kentucky around 13 or so years ago. It was really neat to see. I got to touch it - probably left some DNA on it!

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 01:06 AM
Mark and Richard,

I ordered FGC12382 17 Nov from yseq.net and I have been checking every day to see if the results are in. I will be checking twice a day now!

I ordered 5 Oct and got results on 27 Oct...22 days, so maybe 5 more days for you.

BTW, the FTDNA U152 project page is updated with Abe on my branch :)

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 02:47 AM
According to http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility111.html

James Lincoln and I would have a common ancestor around 620 AD.

Beyond the connection to a famous person, what's encouraging is when I entered the modal values for the three Samuel the Weaver Lincoln descendants that have done 111 markers into Ysearch, it's my closest person match at 111 markers (95 markers on YSearch).

While a genetic distance of 21 is still huge...beyond genealogical time-frame; it's still the best one so far, and it's on my SNP branch, so I know it's a valid match.

Pigmon
12-05-2014, 03:02 AM
According to http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility111.html

James Lincoln and I would have a common ancestor around 620 AD.

Beyond the connection to a famous person, what's encouraging is when I entered the modal values for the three Samuel the Weaver Lincoln descendants that have done 111 markers into Ysearch, it's my closet person match at 111 markers (95 markers on YSearch).

While a genetic distance of 21 is still huge...beyond genealogical time-frame; it's still the best one so far, and it's on my SNP branch, so I know it's a valid match.

Here is what I posted before in this thread:

User ID Last Name Origin Haplogroup Tested With Markers Compared Genetic Distance
ZHHCY Pigman (Pigmon) R1b Z150/Z12222 England R1b1a2a1a1b3c* Family Tree DNA - -
D8K9S Lincoln Mecklenburg Co., NC, North Carolina, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 67 Genetic Distance 17

I will go back and check again now that I have 111 markers.

Pigmon
12-05-2014, 03:06 AM
D8K9S Lincoln Mecklenburg Co., NC, North Carolina, USA Unknown Family Tree DNA 67 17

He is still at 67 markers so the distance is still at 17.

Pigmon
12-05-2014, 03:13 AM
I ordered 5 Oct and got results on 27 Oct...22 days, so maybe 5 more days for you.

BTW, the FTDNA U152 project page is updated with Abe on my branch :)

Ok guys this is weird. My results were just posted. Help me out though does this mean negative?

My Allele Results:

SampleID Marker+ Chr Start End Allele


273 A241 ChrY 6754705 6754705 C-
273 CTS9490 ChrY 18928795 18928795 C-
273 FGC12382 ChrY 6754788 6754788 G-
273 Y3144 ChrY 6754788 6754788 G-
273 ZS2152 ChrY 6754641 6754641 G-

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 04:52 AM
Ok guys this is weird. My results were just posted. Help me out though does this mean negative?

My Allele Results:

SampleID Marker+ Chr Start End Allele


273 A241 ChrY 6754705 6754705 C-
273 CTS9490 ChrY 18928795 18928795 C-
273 FGC12382 ChrY 6754788 6754788 G-
273 Y3144 ChrY 6754788 6754788 G-
273 ZS2152 ChrY 6754641 6754641 G-

I know Y3144 and FGC12382 are the same SNP. YFull calls it Y3144 and Full Genome calls it FGC12382. They were named when I submitted my BigY results to both entities for analysis. Apparently A241 and ZS2152 are two other names for this same SNP.

CTS9490 is another branch of Z150.

You are ancestral (negative) for all these markers. The plus or minus sign behind the allele simply tells you if you are derived (plus) or ancestral (minus) for that SNP.

I don't recall if you've already tested for the L552 branch of Z150 yet.

And then there is the 4th known branch, L654.

You could be on one of these branches or a new/undiscovered branch of Z150.

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 05:46 AM
Ironically, over the last week I've been investigating a possible lead on my paternal line which currently dead ends with a NPE in 1893.

It's just a theory built on weak circumstantial evidence, but this potential paternal line originates in Nottinghamshire which borders Lincolnshire.

The town of Lincoln in Lincolnshire is the source for the Lincoln surname. Aluredus de Lincolia is the first mention of the Lincoln surname in the Doomsday book in 1085AD.

This area was part of the Celtic Corietauvi tribe right before and during the Roman occupation of Britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corieltauvi

3117

Pigmon
12-05-2014, 02:08 PM
I know Y3144 and FGC12382 are the same SNP. YFull calls it Y3144 and Full Genome calls it FGC12382. They were named when I submitted my BigY results to both entities for analysis. Apparently A241 and ZS2152 are two other names for this same SNP.

CTS9490 is another branch of Z150.

You are ancestral (negative) for all these markers. The plus or minus sign behind the allele simply tells you if you are derived (plus) or ancestral (minus) for that SNP.

I don't recall if you've already tested for the L552 branch of Z150 yet.

And then there is the 4th known branch, L654.

You could be on one of these branches or a new/undiscovered branch of Z150.

My L562 test was negative. I ordered L552 from FTDNA 17 Nov. I am quite sure it will take a while to get the results as it typically does with FTDNA. It says expected 4-8 weeks.

If I end up positive for L552 that should put me in the bucket with Jacques Beaugrand.

My Norfolk, England genealogical ancestors differ from yours at FGC12382 and I was guessing that they would be the same. Oh well, I have been wrong many times before.

Cheers

Pigmon
12-05-2014, 02:54 PM
Ironically, over the last week I've been investigating a possible lead on my paternal line which currently dead ends with a NPE in 1893.

It's just a theory built on weak circumstantial evidence, but this potential paternal line originates in Nottinghamshire which borders Lincolnshire.

The town of Lincoln in Lincolnshire is the source for the Lincoln surname. Aluredus de Lincolia is the first mention of the Lincoln surname in the Doomsday book in 1085AD.

This area was part of the Celtic Corietauvi tribe right before and during the Roman occupation of Britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corieltauvi

3117

Mark,
My research has taken me to Norwich - a stone's throw from Lincoln's origins of Hingham in Norfolk.

Here is what I a looking at:
(from free reg)
Baptisms 24 Nov 1644 PIGMAN Gulielmus Norfolk Hunstanton Father Surname
12 Baptisms 21 Jan 1647/48 PIGMAN Maria Norfolk Hunstanton Father Surname
13 Baptisms 27 Oct 1765 PIGMAN George Norfolk Norwich Father Surname
14 Baptisms 28 Oct 1770 PIGMAN Francis Norfolk Norwich Father Surname
15 Baptisms 18 Apr 1773 PIGMAN Elizabeth Norfolk Norwich Father Surname

I can't find any birth records or ship records, however for my supposed immigrant John Pigman/Pigmon. The search continues.

Grossvater
12-05-2014, 04:24 PM
I'm finding this quite fascinating as my Folsom ancestors were also from Hingham in Norfolk. They also lived in Hingham, Massachusetts at the same time the Lincoln family lived there in the 1600s before settling in Exeter, New Hampshire. There is a Folsom family Y-DNA project at FTDNA but it doesn't seem to be publicly accessible. My R1b-U152 is continental but it would be cool to find out that my Folsom ancestors (from one of my paternal great-grandmothers) had the same Y-DNA as Abraham Lincoln.

For years, I've thought that there was something rather Native American about the appearance of Abraham Lincoln. I suppose it is the cheekbones, the shape of his lips and the curve of his nose. I've heard the shirt he was wearing when he was assassinated still exists with blood on the cuffs. After all this time, could genetic material be extracted from these blood stains? It would be so interesting to see what old Abe's autosomal makeup was. I'd love to tell my Native American students that Abraham Lincoln was actually the first Native American president.

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 05:51 PM
...My R1b-U152 is continental but it would be cool to find out that my Folsom ancestors (from one of my paternal great-grandmothers) had the same Y-DNA as Abraham Lincoln...
You could find out in 2-3 weeks by ordering https://www.yseq.net/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=fgc12382&search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0

:)

R.Rocca
12-05-2014, 06:38 PM
I'm finding this quite fascinating as my Folsom ancestors were also from Hingham in Norfolk. They also lived in Hingham, Massachusetts at the same time the Lincoln family lived there in the 1600s before settling in Exeter, New Hampshire. There is a Folsom family Y-DNA project at FTDNA but it doesn't seem to be publicly accessible. My R1b-U152 is continental but it would be cool to find out that my Folsom ancestors (from one of my paternal great-grandmothers) had the same Y-DNA as Abraham Lincoln.

For years, I've thought that there was something rather Native American about the appearance of Abraham Lincoln. I suppose it is the cheekbones, the shape of his lips and the curve of his nose. I've heard the shirt he was wearing when he was assassinated still exists with blood on the cuffs. After all this time, could genetic material be extracted from these blood stains? It would be so interesting to see what old Abe's autosomal makeup was. I'd love to tell my Native American students that Abraham Lincoln was actually the first Native American president.

Blood was taken from several materials thought to contain Lincoln's blood, but none of them were able to produce DNA. As in the case with these types of articles, even if DNA could be extracted, one could never be sure of who's DNA it is given how many people have touched them since.

There is nothing about Lincoln's appearance that screams Native American to me, especially not his height. If anything, it looks like his high cheekbones are a result of him having an almost wasting-away type of look. Some have speculated that he may have had serious health issues. To me he has always looked more like a continental European (French for example) than someone of entirely British ancestry.

R.Rocca
12-05-2014, 08:01 PM
Ironically, over the last week I've been investigating a possible lead on my paternal line which currently dead ends with a NPE in 1893.

It's just a theory built on weak circumstantial evidence, but this potential paternal line originates in Nottinghamshire which borders Lincolnshire.

The town of Lincoln in Lincolnshire is the source for the Lincoln surname. Aluredus de Lincolia is the first mention of the Lincoln surname in the Doomsday book in 1085AD.

This area was part of the Celtic Corietauvi tribe right before and during the Roman occupation of Britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corieltauvi

3117

You should run out and play the lottery, because you've won the Y-DNA sweepstakes the last two days... another sample came in today that is not only positive for all of your FGC SNPs, but also shares the following with just your kit: 19436291(G/A), 21290212(A/G), 22476861(G/A), 22771081(G/A), 22941997(G/A)

His MDKA is also from London, so you may be able to at some point triangulate your lines' NPE...

MDKA = Horatio Sylvanus Roberts, b.1822 London England, d.1910, Sydney NSW, Australia

MitchellSince1893
12-05-2014, 08:16 PM
You should run out and play the lottery, because you've won the Y-DNA sweepstakes the lat two days... another sample came in today that is not only positive for all of your FGC SNPs, but also shares the following with just your kit: 19436291(G/A), 21290212(A/G), 22476861(G/A), 22771081(G/A), 22941997(G/A)

His MDKA is also from London, so you may be able to at some point triangulate your lines' NPE...

MDKA = Horatio Sylvanus Roberts, b.1822 London England, d.1910, Sydney NSW, Australia

That's awesome news!

Does this mean you have already determined that Lincoln doesn't share any SNPs with me below FGC123etc?

R.Rocca
12-05-2014, 08:46 PM
That's awesome news!

Does this mean you have already determined that Lincoln doesn't share any SNPs with me below FGC123etc?

Not with the BAM file yet, but based on the Excel download, it is very likely that he does not.

MitchellSince1893
12-06-2014, 08:51 PM
... another sample came in today that is not only positive for all of your FGC SNPs, but also shares the following with just your kit: 19436291(G/A), 21290212(A/G), 22476861(G/A), 22771081(G/A), 22941997(G/A)

His MDKA is also from London, so you may be able to at some point triangulate your lines' NPE...

MDKA = Horatio Sylvanus Roberts, b.1822 London England, d.1910, Sydney NSW, Australia
I went to the FTDNA Roberts project https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Roberts/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

and found he was in Haplogroup R1b1a2, Set 15.

I was able to trace the other sample in this set, 43408 Nathan Roberts 1759, Philadelphia-1838, Mercer Co. PA, to Northern Wales.
This matches the results of this map.
3130

However before I start assuming my paternal line is from Wales, I need to keep in mind that while Horatio Roberts shares 5 more novel SNPs with me than any one else so far, our shared ancestor could still be a long long time ago.

Using the SNP counting/dating technique mentioned in other threads (120 to 173 years per SNP), our MRCA could have born between 800 BC and 2000 BC, as I still have approximately 23 novel SNPs between me and Horatio Roberts.

But maybe we are now reaching a point on this branch where it's primarily a British haplogroup.
As Richard Rocca mentioned the FGC123etc branch of Z150 (5 levels above Horatio Roberts and Edward Leopold Mitchell) has samples from Spain, the Netherlands, and England.

Time will tell.

Morges
12-06-2014, 09:19 PM
http://a4.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODg2NTc0MDky.jpg

I recently tested kit no. 174343 (James Lincoln, 1875-1967) for R-L2 and he came up positive. The Lincoln surname match and a 36/37 match with kit no. 130589 (Edward Lincoln, b.c. 1575, Hingham, England) makes them almost certainly related. The historical significance is that Edward Lincoln was the great-great-great-great-great-grandfather of Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president of the United States.

These two kits and all other ancestors of Samuel "the Weaver" Lincoln (Edward Lincoln's son who migrated to the United States) in the Lincoln surname project have very close STR haplotypes:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Lincoln/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

Therefore, barring a NPE, Abraham Lincoln was also U152+ L2+.

Of related interest, there is an L2+ Washington in the Washington surname project, but there are several M269 haplotypes that may not be related.

So an italic?eheh

MitchellSince1893
12-06-2014, 09:44 PM
So an italic?eheh

L2 is not primarily an Italic branch of U152 http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?971-U152-in-Italy

- Unlike what we saw in the Belgium study, where L2 lineages reached about 60-70% of U152 overall, in Italy it is the opposite where it only reaches 37.4%. Of their groupings of Italian regions, L2 only outnumbers U152* in the north-east. All other regions were higher in U152*. This confirms the trend seen in the FTDNA project where L2 is highest in almost all countries except for Italy.

Current distribution of L2 in Europe https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zzYgXMi2ZzXQ.kqmdzgU3CyZY&msa=0

Current distribution Abe Lincoln's U152>L2>Z49>Z142>Z150 https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zzYgXMi2ZzXQ.kzlK_c6TtbRw&msa=0&ll=51.013755,-0.571289&spn=16.196212,43.286133

MitchellSince1893
12-07-2014, 03:19 PM
...shares the following with just your kit: 19436291(G/A), 21290212(A/G), 22476861(G/A), 22771081(G/A), 22941997(G/A)



FYI: Names I found for these new SNPs shared with Horatio S. Roberts

19436291(G/A): FGC12401
21290212(A/G): FGC12402
22476861(G/A): FGC12403
22771081(G/A): FGC12404
22941997(G/A): FGC12405, Y4272

A plus of posting this type of info is that days, months, years, from now, some one can google these names or positions and find this thread, which may lead to further discovery or connections.

MattL
12-15-2014, 11:24 PM
This is all very interesting, currently in the U152 project I'm grouped under (kit 317350)

152> L2> Z49/Z68> Z142

Though I have only ever done a 37 marker test myself so all of that are based off my matches. This really makes me want to do a Big Y test once I have the means. Even though my 37 marker results are a 10 GD from James Lincoln so I don't expect anything too close, still very interesting to see how far things are getting narrowed down.

I'm guessing a Big Y would test a substantial amount of the markers to dig deeper?

MitchellSince1893
12-16-2014, 06:08 AM
This is all very interesting, currently in the U152 project I'm grouped under (kit 317350)

152> L2> Z49/Z68> Z142

Though I have only ever done a 37 marker test myself so all of that are based off my matches. This really makes me want to do a Big Y test once I have the means. Even though my 37 marker results are a 10 GD from James Lincoln so I don't expect anything too close, still very interesting to see how far things are getting narrowed down.

I'm guessing a Big Y would test a substantial amount of the markers to dig deeper?

Hi and welcome Matt!

Based on your STR values I wouldn't be surprised if you are on the newly discovered sub branch of Z142...so new it doesn't even have a name yet.

"13788 Peter zur Brügg (1700-1761), Wengi bei Frutigen, S" is the first member of this new branch; and you share the somewhat rare DYS389ii=31 value with him.

His anthrogenica profile name is delegz.

Do you know if you have DYS385=11-13.2? Typical Z142 values are 11-13 or 11-14, but a few folks like delegz, 145421, 136311, and E5562 have this rare micro allele. It doesn't show up in the FTDNA Project page. You can request this info from FTDNA if you don't know.

This is discussed further in this thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2924-Two-branches-of-Z142-Z150-Z12222-and-Z51/page5

Assuming you are on this branch, a BigY test would greatly expand this new tree section...but even if you aren't, every BigY test makes a huge contribution to our understanding of the tree and will undoubtedly expand it much further.

MattL
12-16-2014, 07:22 AM
Hi and welcome Matt!

Based on your STR values I wouldn't be surprised if you are on the newly discovered sub branch of Z142...so new it doesn't even have a name yet.

"13788 Peter zur Brügg (1700-1761), Wengi bei Frutigen, S" is the first member of this new branch; and you share the somewhat rare DYS389ii=31 value with him.

His anthrogenica profile name is delegz.

Do you know if you have DYS385=11-13.2? Typical Z142 values are 11-13 or 11-14, but a few folks like delegz, 145421, 136311, and E5562 have this rare micro allele. It doesn't show up in the FTDNA Project page. You can request this info from FTDNA if you don't know.

This is discussed further in this thread http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2924-Two-branches-of-Z142-Z150-Z12222-and-Z51/page5

Assuming you are on this branch, a BigY test would greatly expand this new tree section...but even if you aren't every BigY test makes a huge contribution to our understanding of the tree and will undoubtedly expand it much further.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have a lot of information I'm catching up on, there's such an overwhelming amount of information surrounding all this, but definitely love digging in.

So it turns out I do have the 13.2 micro allele, it shows up on my results page:
3221

MattL
12-16-2014, 07:31 AM
Hmm, thanks for referencing that post... quite interesting indeed. I guess it's not too much of a surprise I'm possibly part of that new branch, it looks like William C Langley (my name is Matthew Langley) is on your possible list and he's a GD of 3 to me.

MitchellSince1893
12-16-2014, 01:07 PM
...

So it turns out I do have the 13.2 micro allele, it shows up on my results page:
3221
Based on this, I believe there is a good probability you are on the same branch as delegz.

MitchellSince1893
12-27-2014, 06:38 AM
...shares the following with just your kit: 19436291(G/A), 21290212(A/G), 22476861(G/A), 22771081(G/A), 22941997(G/A)

His MDKA is also from London, so you may be able to at some point triangulate your lines' NPE...

MDKA = Horatio Sylvanus Roberts, b.1822 London England, d.1910, Sydney NSW, Australia

FYI Rich,

YFull analysis of the Roberts kit appears to have found the same 5 SNPs shared with my father's as you found. I know this because I've gone from 23 to 18 novel SNPs and the 5 you mention above are no longer in my Novel SNP list.

The new branch on the Yfull tree should appear when version version 2.3.2 comes out.



Great job on the analysis.

MitchellSince1893
04-14-2015, 12:35 AM
Possible Lincoln deathbed blanket tested in Wisconsin 150 years after assassination
http://news.yahoo.com/possible-lincoln-deathbed-blanket-tested-wisconsin-150-years-215442678.html


By Brendan O'Brien

MILWAUKEE (Reuters) - A bedspread that may have covered Abraham Lincoln as he lay dying will be tested for his blood in Wisconsin on Tuesday, 150 years to the day after the 16th U.S. president was fatally shot while watching a play in Washington.

University of Wisconsin textile expert Majid Sarmadi will test the cotton bedspread to determine if human blood is on the Wisconsin Historical Society artifact.

"It is the most exciting thing to work on," Sarmadi said on Monday. "It gives me goosebumps. ... There is no single president in history that I regard more than Lincoln."

Lincoln was shot by John Wilkes Booth as he watched a play in Ford's Theatre on April 14, 1865, five days after Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered his army to Union General Ulysses S. Grant, effectively ending the Civil War.

The president was taken across the street to the Petersen House and placed in a bed, where he died the next morning, perhaps covered by the artifact headed for the lab.

Wisconsin State Journal owner Richard Lloyd Jones gave the blanket to the Wisconsin Historical Society in 1919. Jones, who was interested in preserving Lincoln artifacts, acquired it from the Petersen family in 1907.

The Wisconsin Historical Society decided to run tests after fielding questions about the small spots on it that appear to be bloodstains, said social history curator Leslie Bellais.

"If the story is true, then it was present during a very seminal moment in American history," she said.

Sarmadi and the state's crime lab recently ran preliminary tests on the bedspread and may request the FBI to run its own test. Sarmadi said he would not disclose the findings until all results were back.

If blood is present, Sarmadi said he hoped to confirm eventually whether it was Lincoln's blood through DNA tests on other assassination artifacts.

No DNA test has been conducted on any artifacts such as a pillow on display at the Ford's Theatre museum known to contain Lincoln's blood, because of fears of ruining them, Bellais said.

"Technology now has it that you can actually test these things without destroying the pieces," Bellais said. "I wouldn't be surprised that fairly soon we will have Lincoln DNA on record."

(Reporting by Brendan O'Brien in Milwaukee; Editing by Peter Cooney)

falconson1
04-14-2015, 02:42 AM
As we collect more samples from East Anglia, it becomes evident that it is a hotspot for sundry varieties of U152. My paternal grandfather was born in Norwich, Norfolk (ancestors from Hingham close to the families Norfolk home of Croxton - and Worlingham in Suffolk) and is L2 > L20. What is a bit ironic is that grandfather emigrated to Barrie, Ontario in 1907 and three years later marries the minister's daughter, who was from New Sleaford, Lincolnshire and her father was also L2 > L20. One of my third cousins on my mother's side is also L20 and from the same ancestral home along the Suffolk coast as the Fauxes (his surname is different - we have not done a Y-STR test as yet). The one consistency is that all of my kinfolk were originally from villages along the North Sea. There is no evidence that I am aware of as to where all of this U152, L2 and L20 in East Anglia originated.

MitchellSince1893
04-14-2015, 05:06 AM
The one consistency is that all of my kinfolk were originally from villages along the North Sea. There is no evidence that I am aware of as to where all of this U152, L2 and L20 in East Anglia originated.
Because U152 is more prevalent in Southern and Eastern Britain, it has been theorized that they arrived in large part with the Hallstatt and La Tene cultures along with the Belgae tribes during the first millennium BC. The arrival of the Romans may have also added to their numbers.

cal
07-29-2015, 12:54 AM
I WONDER WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS BEING THAT LINCOLN IS SO CLOSE TO ME ON BIG Y . BUCKS AND LINCOLN ARE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER IN ENGLAND . MAYBE WE ALL CAME IN TOGETHER . BIRDS OF A FEATHER - STICK TOGETHER . CAL

Pigmon
07-29-2015, 02:57 PM
I guess it takes more than 3 months or so for the results of the Lincoln DNA tests to come in! Just googled it and nothing yet since April!


http://news.yahoo.com/possible-lincoln-deathbed-blanket-tested-wisconsin-150-years-215442678.html

alan
07-29-2015, 03:10 PM
and Baberaham Lincoln didnt have a y chromosome :0)

PLogan
12-16-2015, 04:59 AM
As I'm still a relative newcomer to the boards, I've just come across this fascinating thread. While researching whether the DNA tests on the bloody blanket had come back, I found an interesting article on Lincoln's mother. I searched the forums but didn't get a hit so I'll post it here for context.


DNA study helps solve Lincoln lineage debate
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/03/dna-study-helps-solve-lincoln-lineage-debate/75078140/

A new study has solved a 150-year-old mystery surrounding the true identity of Nancy Hanks Lincoln's mother.

Historians have debated for more than a century about Lincoln's lineage, with many siding with Lincoln biographer William Barton, who concluded in the 1920s that Nancy Hanks Lincoln was the illegitimate daughter of Lucy Hanks, who later married Henry Sparrow, according the Hanks DNA Project. This theory was supported by the 16th president's law partner, William Herndon, who said Lincoln told him Lincoln's mother was illegitimate.

To view the study, visit the Hanks DNA Project website at www.familytreedna.com/public/HanksDNAProject.

MitchellSince1893
12-16-2015, 02:27 PM
"U152...the guys who end up with their faces on US dollars bills"


Sounds like a great tagline.
:P

Washington was also supposedly U152.

Kwheaton
12-16-2015, 02:56 PM
"U152...the guys who end up with their faces on US dollars bills"


Sounds like a great tagline.
:P

Washington was also supposedly U152.

OR "Like Money? Snuggle with a U152"

R.Rocca
12-16-2015, 03:26 PM
"U152...the guys who end up with their faces on US dollars bills"


Sounds like a great tagline.
:P

Washington was also supposedly U152.

I've asked the Eupedia owner to take that assumption down from his website, but he has never done so. There is a Washington that is U152+L2+ in the Washington project, but the only kit in the project that has a paper trail to the line that came from England has a completely different STR signature and is only tested to M269. He could be just about any subclade of P312 and, with L21 and DF27 being more common in England, chances are not that great that they are U152.

MitchellSince1893
12-16-2015, 03:57 PM
I've asked the Eupedia owner to take that assumption down from his website, but he has never done so. There is a Washington that is U152+L2+ in the Washington project, but the only kit in the project that has a paper trail to the line that came from England has a completely different STR signature and is only tested to M269. He could be just about any subclade of P312 and, with L21 and DF27 being more common in England, chances are not that great that they are U152.

Way to rain on my parade Richard. Thanks a lot!
:D

R.Rocca
12-16-2015, 04:47 PM
Way to rain on my parade Richard. Thanks a lot!
:D

I know right? :biggrin1:

I tried to offer a U152 test through the Washington project administrator, but he never replied. Will try to send him another offer for the backbone test, but the project has a lot of kits in the "ungrouped" category, so I don't think it is being managed.

MitchellSince1893
12-16-2015, 10:05 PM
I know right? :biggrin1:

I tried to offer a U152 test through the Washington project administrator, but he never replied. Will try to send him another offer for the backbone test, but the project has a lot of kits in the "ungrouped" category, so I don't think it is being managed.

OK fine. Then how bout this tagline?

"U152..we are on the Penny, the 5 dollar bill, and Mount Rushmore; because we had the cahones to end slavery, and SAVE THE FREAKING UNION!"

MitchellSince1893
02-15-2016, 04:16 PM
In honor of President's Day, I intentionally violate the rules of this forum and bump this thread. :)

Pigmon
02-16-2016, 01:53 PM
In honor of the Tuesday after President's day I am intentionally reading your illegally posted message!


In honor of President's Day, I intentionally violate the rules of this forum and bump this thread. :)

Bdeed
02-27-2016, 10:25 PM
I'm new to this so please excuse my naivety but this thread had drawn my attention. I had paper traced my ancestry to 1790's and started y tests to confirm a strong suspicion of decendance from the Dade family of Norfolk. Interestingly the Dade pedigree goes back to at least the mid 1400's and indicates they originated in the Netherlands.

With both of those locations being mentioned here I wonder at how many other Norfolk families made this move.

Pigmon
02-28-2016, 03:52 PM
Mine is a similar story. When I started my y-DNA testing I was trying to see if our family was indeed French as the stories go. It turns out that the Pigman family was in Hunstanton and Norwich, Norfolk from around the 1500s although I cannot find the proof of a direct ancestor.

Also, if I had someone from the Pigmans male line with whom to compare in the Netherlands I suspect that we would also be related to the Pigmans families that are prevalent in the Tilburg, Noord-Brabant area of Holland.

This doesn't rule out for me the Pigmon family from Correze, Limousin, France however as the name is now spelled Pimond.




I'm new to this so please excuse my naivety but this thread had drawn my attention. I had paper traced my ancestry to 1790's and started y tests to confirm a strong suspicion of decendance from the Dade family of Norfolk. Interestingly the Dade pedigree goes back to at least the mid 1400's and indicates they originated in the Netherlands.

With both of those locations being mentioned here I wonder at how many other Norfolk families made this move.

theImmortal
06-19-2016, 06:26 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the FCG12378 indicator for the Lincoln kit has changed to say S20376?

Currently, I'm R-Z49. The two Lincoln kits being discussed here appear as 12-markers, 1-distance on my FTDNA list. I ordered the Z142 test, but upon seeing that my DYS385 value (14-14) was fairly uncommon among U152 men and that the Vidaillet kit also showed both 14-14 and FCG12378, I ordered the Big Y kit.

Yesterday, I noticed the R-S20376 change and that my Z142 order status changed to say it was delayed. I've been checking my account quite often, so I was wondering if it's possible that these updates were related in some way. Perhaps some preliminary data has been gathered?

The change is reflected on The Big Tree, but I don't really understand how this works across companies, in terms of coordinating the nomenclature. Anyone have any insight on this change?

Also, will the Big Y kit return my 111-marker STR values, or is that just wishful thinking? They'd probably sell more Big Y kits if that were included (or better advertised).

wombatofthenorth
06-26-2016, 11:36 PM
Well, your wish has been granted...

Edward Lincoln was U152>L2>Z49>Z142>Z150, Z12222>FGC12378+ FGC12379+ FGC12380+ FGC12381+ FGC12382+



booooooo
mangy old Z49 and nothing cool like L20
:)

MitchellSince1893
06-27-2016, 01:03 AM
booooooo
mangy old Z49 and nothing cool like L20
:)

Those are fighting words :fencing:

:P

Pigmon
08-01-2016, 10:50 AM
Are you on the The Big Tree yet? The link is:

http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=28

We would like to see everyone on here!




Has anyone else noticed that the FCG12378 indicator for the Lincoln kit has changed to say S20376?

Currently, I'm R-Z49. The two Lincoln kits being discussed here appear as 12-markers, 1-distance on my FTDNA list. I ordered the Z142 test, but upon seeing that my DYS385 value (14-14) was fairly uncommon among U152 men and that the Vidaillet kit also showed both 14-14 and FCG12378, I ordered the Big Y kit.

Yesterday, I noticed the R-S20376 change and that my Z142 order status changed to say it was delayed. I've been checking my account quite often, so I was wondering if it's possible that these updates were related in some way. Perhaps some preliminary data has been gathered?

The change is reflected on The Big Tree, but I don't really understand how this works across companies, in terms of coordinating the nomenclature. Anyone have any insight on this change?

Also, will the Big Y kit return my 111-marker STR values, or is that just wishful thinking? They'd probably sell more Big Y kits if that were included (or better advertised).

MitchellSince1893
08-01-2016, 11:50 AM
Has anyone else noticed that the FCG12378 indicator for the Lincoln kit has changed to say S20376?

Currently, I'm R-Z49. The two Lincoln kits being discussed here appear as 12-markers, 1-distance on my FTDNA list. I ordered the Z142 test, but upon seeing that my DYS385 value (14-14) was fairly uncommon among U152 men and that the Vidaillet kit also showed both 14-14 and FCG12378, I ordered the Big Y kit.

Yesterday, I noticed the R-S20376 change and that my Z142 order status changed to say it was delayed.

S20376 is a newly discovered branch of FGC12378. I just posted an update on FGC12378 here
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4222-U152-gt-L2-gt-Z49-gt-Z142-gt-Z150-Z12222-gt-FGC12378-79-80-81-82-gt-FGC12383-Y3141&p=175493&viewfull=1#post175493
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/0b/c9/12/0bc912fdb94be1f83fbfc141d7017440.png