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utR!
08-09-2014, 01:26 PM
Hi there,

This topic came to my mind yesterday. Soon is 4-weeks holiday over and start to work on Monday.

I was not much during my summer holiday. Almost all the time it was very hot up to 31. But I kept on picking berries blueberries, rasberries. For me it was work but I liked to be in the wood and bushes.

How do you see your work, do you like it, or is it necessary "evil" or something else?

Have you ever been unemployed and how did it affect into you life, mind?

Work is a big part of our life and some work even when they are old.

It will be nice to read different kind of thoughts of yours, :)

utR!

Táltos
08-09-2014, 02:13 PM
Hmm, work. It is a necessary evil. Sometimes I really enjoy my job, other times a big NO. Like the many times I have to work understaffed, and my 12 hour day turns into a 13-14 hour one. Some of the things I have come across on the job are really interesting, other times downright crazy. Things I just couldn't make up, and won't repeat here.

Ultimately the best job in the world I have found is being a mother.

mcg11
08-09-2014, 03:17 PM
Hi there,

This topic came to my mind yesterday. Soon is 4-weeks holiday over and start to work on Monday.

I was not much during my summer holiday. Almost all the time it was very hot up to 31. But I kept on picking berries blueberries, rasberries. For me it was work but I liked to be in the wood and bushes.

How do you see your work, do you like it, or is it necessary "evil" or something else?

Have you ever been unemployed and how did it affect into you life, mind?

Work is a big part of our life and some work even when they are old.

It will be nice to read different kind of thoughts of yours, :)

utR!I have been very fortunate in life. My childhood was tough, childrens aid, many different homes. It ended when my mom could afford a home and we lived together from the time I was 13. Luckily I finished High School and enlisted in the Navy for four years and was eligible for the G.I. Bill. After the service I went to College and graduate school. At that point I was married and had three children. The degrees gave me a range of choices for a job. I, then worked in industry for 22 years and at age 50 began a new career. I consulted for 10 years and then retired for the second time. I then worked for another 10 to 15 years and finally fully retired.

After 50 has been the most interesting time of my life. In my view, you set personal goals and use "work" to help you achieve them. Life has been great to me

P.S. My wife's grandparents on both sides were born in Finland!

alan
08-09-2014, 04:40 PM
I am still waiting for the world that was promised in the SciFi comics of my youth - and was meant to have materialised by at least 2000. You know - the one where noone has to work and robots do the housework, serve the food and drink etc. I am mighty sad that the comics lied about that.

MikeWhalen
08-09-2014, 04:51 PM
when I was younger, I had some 'medium' strong goals and hopes from work/carreer (although I always leaned towards family and friends being the most valuble)
...but between the chaos of change I find my 'line of work in' that has been pretty constant (tail end of baby boom-everything downsizing or breaking), and some of the really incompetent and nasty specimens I have found in the work place (some managers, some co workers, some 'clients), I more and more take work as a necessary evil- I do it to pay the bills and be able to live the life I want when at home
-I am happy with my career choice, it fit my talents and nature, I have done well in my profession and am well respected in my little corner of the pond so no regrets there, just if I could retire tomorrow, I would, and when I do retire in 5 yrs, I will close that door and never look back

If I had won the lottery, I probably would take a year or so 'off' (world travel), but then do some part time pro bono work---help out in area's I am suitable for and for which there is a tremendous need (meaning long waiting lists)
---but all according to my schedule
:)

Mike

seferhabahir
08-09-2014, 05:24 PM
I worked for 35 years as a computer scientist on the bleeding edge of supercomputing technologies and enjoyed my work career and the people I worked for and worked with. But after having to work for the last five years with more and more government bureaucrats that were focused on federal regulations and meaningless oversight instead of science (ahh, the revenge of the "C students" as we called it), I retired and fell into genetic genealogy as a way to keep my mind active and focused on new interests. I serve on two non-profit boards (unpaid) as a way to contribute back to the community. I don't miss "work" and have not really kept up with computer science areas.

There is enough within genetic genealogy and anthropological genetics in the way of science, mathematics, statistics, academic papers, intellectual conversation, and exciting discoveries that I could do this for another 35 years and enjoy the same kinds of wonder and enlightenment that occurred during my 35 years of "career work." The conversations I have had with people like Bennett Greenspan (who seems to have this same kind of "wonder and enlightenment" attitude, at least when not worried about the financial aspects of his company), is the equal of anything I did when working in supercomputing.

As Joseph Campbell said so well, "If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Wherever you are—if you are following your bliss, you are enjoying that refreshment, that life within you, all the time."

rms2
08-09-2014, 06:25 PM
I don't particularly care for my job, but I have six more years to suffer in it until I can retire. Even then, I will probably have to do some kind of work to supplement my income.

I live for my time off.

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:06 AM
Hmm, work. It is a necessary evil. Sometimes I really enjoy my job, other times a big NO. Like the many times I have to work understaffed, and my 12 hour day turns into a 13-14 hour one. Some of the things I have come across on the job are really interesting, other times downright crazy. Things I just couldn't make up, and won't repeat here.

Ultimately the best job in the world I have found is being a mother.

Yes I do think sometimes so too. It depends on tired you are then it seems to be more boring if there is no variaty.

You have long working days, do you get extra wages or have to get them as free?

utR!

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:09 AM
I don't particularly care for my job, but I have six more years to suffer in it until I can retire. Even then, I will probably have to do some kind of work to supplement my income.

I live for my time off.

I think you are still lucky to have work. Maybe it is well paid and you own lot of experience. Have you done it long time?

utR!

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:22 AM
[QUOTE=seferhabahir;48217]I worked for 35 years as a computer scientist on the bleeding edge of supercomputing technologies and enjoyed my work career and the people I worked for and worked with. But after having to work for the last five years with more and more government bureaucrats that were focused on federal regulations and meaningless oversight instead of science (ahh, the revenge of the "C students" as we called it), I retired and fell into genetic genealogy as a way to keep my mind active and focused on new interests. I serve on two non-profit boards (unpaid) as a way to contribute back to the community. I don't miss "work" and have not really kept up with computer science areas.

There is enough within genetic genealogy and anthropological genetics in the way of science, mathematics, statistics, academic papers, intellectual conversation, and exciting discoveries that I could do this for another 35 years and enjoy the same kinds of wonder and enlightenment that occurred during my 35 years of "career work." The conversations I have had with people like Bennett Greenspan (who seems to have this same kind of "wonder and enlightenment" attitude, at least when not worried about the financial aspects of his company), is the equal of anything I did when working in supercomputing.

As Joseph Campbell said so well, "If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Wherever you are—if you are following your bliss, you are enjoying that refreshment, that life within you, all the time."[/QUOTIt

It was nice you shared your workhistory. It has been more brainwork and it does not suit for all who like to do more physical work. I think you have followed your bliss. Not all of us find a job or work which is like a "dreamwork".

I do agree that genetic genealogy is facinating brach of science too. It gives energy for your brains to find ways to think and even find out new answers of our history. It is work for me but it pays back later.

P.s. my fathers maternal line is same as yours, but mutations maybe different...

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:31 AM
I am still waiting for the world that was promised in the SciFi comics of my youth - and was meant to have materialised by at least 2000. You know - the one where noone has to work and robots do the housework, serve the food and drink etc. I am mighty sad that the comics lied about that.

Robots are used in the surgery of prostatae, also in industry and so on. It feels a bit funny to think to see a robot washing dishes (which I do not like so much). Cleaning maybe would be nice to leave for a robot.

But maybe it is unrealistic to have a world without work, because there are so much different kind of it but if you are rich you can have servants as in old time ;)

utR!

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:34 AM
when I was younger, I had some 'medium' strong goals and hopes from work/carreer (although I always leaned towards family and friends being the most valuble)
...but between the chaos of change I find my 'line of work in' that has been pretty constant (tail end of baby boom-everything downsizing or breaking), and some of the really incompetent and nasty specimens I have found in the work place (some managers, some co workers, some 'clients), I more and more take work as a necessary evil- I do it to pay the bills and be able to live the life I want when at home
-I am happy with my career choice, it fit my talents and nature, I have done well in my profession and am well respected in my little corner of the pond so no regrets there, just if I could retire tomorrow, I would, and when I do retire in 5 yrs, I will close that door and never look back

If I had won the lottery, I probably would take a year or so 'off' (world travel), but then do some part time pro bono work---help out in area's I am suitable for and for which there is a tremendous need (meaning long waiting lists)
---but all according to my schedule
:)

Mike

You are lucky man. What is pro bono work is it same as volunteer work?

utR!

utR!
08-10-2014, 05:47 AM
I have been very fortunate in life. My childhood was tough, childrens aid, many different homes. It ended when my mom could afford a home and we lived together from the time I was 13. Luckily I finished High School and enlisted in the Navy for four years and was eligible for the G.I. Bill. After the service I went to College and graduate school. At that point I was married and had three children. The degrees gave me a range of choices for a job. I, then worked in industry for 22 years and at age 50 began a new career. I consulted for 10 years and then retired for the second time. I then worked for another 10 to 15 years and finally fully retired.

After 50 has been the most interesting time of my life. In my view, you set personal goals and use "work" to help you achieve them. Life has been great to me

P.S. My wife's grandparents on both sides were born in Finland!

Hi you,

It shows that background does not always prevent from advancing in your life. It is also need work and perhaps strong will to get something you have dreamed about. It nice to read you were able to make it true as a new career and use your skills for others best and learning. It is also a benefit for a bigger purpose for you country.

P.s. My curiosity awoke about your wives relatives.

utR!

mcg11
08-10-2014, 11:23 AM
Hi you,

It shows that background does not always prevent from advancing in your life. It is also need work and perhaps strong will to get something you have dreamed about. It nice to read you were able to make it true as a new career and use your skills for others best and learning. It is also a benefit for a bigger purpose for you country.

P.s. My curiosity awoke about your wives relatives.

utR! My College training was in Physics. My new career was in starting a vineyard and winery which is now run by my son.

My wifes grandparents were Immonens and Pesonens (from near Oulu). What is interesting is that my wifes grandparent married to Matti Immonen was Kathryn Bridget Heikkinen and she may be related to my mom! A close relative to my mom, per FtDNA, is a Finnish lady whose ggm is also a Heikkinen, (married name) who was born c. 1862 or so. My wifes grandmother was born c. 1888 and may be a daughter of that ladies ggm? My mothers mom was Mains, born in Ireland, who may have been descended from an Irish-Finn?

rms2
08-10-2014, 02:14 PM
I think you are still lucky to have work. Maybe it is well paid and you own lot of experience. Have you done it long time?

utR!

The pay is not bad, and the benefits are good. I am a teacher, so I get two months off in the summer. That is without question the best part.

I have been at it for quite some time. Before becoming a teacher, I was a police officer. That was much more fun, but I foolishly left that career long ago and am now too old to go back to it.

utR!
08-10-2014, 02:47 PM
[QUOTE=mcg11;48278]My College training was in Physics. My new career was in starting a vineyard and winery which is now run by my son.

My wifes grandparents were Immonens and Pesonens (from near Oulu). What is interesting is that my wifes grandparent married to Matti Immonen was Kathryn Bridget Heikkinen and she may be related to my mom! A close relative to my mom, per FtDNA, is a Finnish lady whose ggm is also a Heikkinen, (married name) who was born c. 1862 or so. My wifes grandmother was born c. 1888 and may be a daughter of that ladies ggm? My mothers mom was Mains, born in Ireland, who may have been descended from an Irish-Finn?[/QUOTE

Okey. Is there any wine for export or is it for nearby buyers in your country? Still there are a lot of work to take care of vineyard.

I think I have one Immonen in my mother's side but I need to check it. I have found it via internet not not from actual church records which are more reliable. Pesonen seems to be familiar in someone's pedigrees related to my surnames.

Best

utR!

utR!
08-10-2014, 02:57 PM
The pay is not bad, and the benefits are good. I am a teacher, so I get two months off in the summer. That is without question the best part.

I have been at it for quite some time. Before becoming a teacher, I was a police officer. That was much more more fun, but I foolishly left that career long ago and am now too old to go back to it.

That's a good job because in children/youth we have the future. Teaching is hard work but learning in some way harder. I was not so bright at school but after every school I did get better school marks (when getting older). After nursing college I have no intention to go any other school. Never say never; who knows if I'll find out my 'dreamwork' and need to go back to school.

Best

utR!

MikeWhalen
08-10-2014, 05:39 PM
yes, pro bono is essentially the same as volunteer, but it specifically refers to 'free' or 'with out charge' professional grade work

Hey mcg11-I'm no wine guy, but my brother is...is your wine available in Canada?

Mike


You are lucky man. What is pro bono work is it same as volunteer work?

utR!

mcg11
08-10-2014, 06:01 PM
yes, pro bono is essentially the same as volunteer, but it specifically refers to 'free' or 'with out charge' professional grade work

Hey mcg11-I'm no wine guy, but my brother is...is your wine available in Canada?

Mike No. The laws are too stringent. My winery is on line, we are a quality winery (who isn't), but our Black Russian Red is unique. www.mcgregorwinery.com

Gray Fox
08-10-2014, 07:27 PM
I've had various forms of employment since I was about fifteen. I started out working in hay (square-bail for those of you who know the difference) and tobacco. Then after I dropped out of high-school I worked for a food-service company unloading trucks, stacking product onto pallets and moving said pallets with a pallet-jack. After that I worked fire-wood and after that I worked selling product door to door which was basically a legal Ponzi scheme. Now I'm working with my Dad and helping him get his consulting business off the ground.

I'd rather bail hay, cut fire-wood and tobacco than do any of those other things. I absolutely hated the food-service job and I felt guilty the entire time doing the door to door thing. The hard, back-breaking work was the most gratifying of them all and I felt like I accomplished something after doing it. I do however feel that we Americans are notorious for over-working and not enjoying life when we're still able to enjoy it. I think the Spaniards have it figured out and perhaps we should take a cue from them and stop to take a breath every now and then. What's the point of working in a job you hate for fifty plus years and then only having a few years left to actually live after that?

MikeWhalen
08-10-2014, 08:51 PM
only problem with the hard labor type jobs is for most people, the body starts to break down and you really pay for it as you get older...and that's not including any significant injuries that can occur, which never seem to heal fully as you get older
feeling guilty cause your screwing someone, or just hating the job, is a recipe for internal disaster
...somehow we all have to come up with some happy medium that does not take too much of a toll on us, but lets us pay the bills and have a decent quality of life
good luck with the consulting job!

M

utR!
08-12-2014, 04:45 AM
I've had various forms of employment since I was about fifteen. I started out working in hay (square-bail for those of you who know the difference) and tobacco. Then after I dropped out of high-school I worked for a food-service company unloading trucks, stacking product onto pallets and moving said pallets with a pallet-jack. After that I worked fire-wood and after that I worked selling product door to door which was basically a legal Ponzi scheme. Now I'm working with my Dad and helping him get his consulting business off the ground.

I'd rather bail hay, cut fire-wood and tobacco than do any of those other things. I absolutely hated the food-service job and I felt guilty the entire time doing the door to door thing. The hard, back-breaking work was the most gratifying of them all and I felt like I accomplished something after doing it. I do however feel that we Americans are notorious for over-working and not enjoying life when we're still able to enjoy it. I think the Spaniards have it figured out and perhaps we should take a cue from them and stop to take a breath every now and then. What's the point of working in a job you hate for fifty plus years and then only having a few years left to actually live after that?

Hi,

Yes I do agree that physical work can be felt or see as work. But I do not underestimate less physical work (as I'm doing now).

We have had 23 days about +30 which is unordinary hot for maybe since 60's. Luckily I had my summeholiday but those who worked suffered. But there are limits of temperature when you need to rest 5, 10 or 15 min. I would like to have siesta too here but maybe it is not so possible is some workplaces.

When I was a child and and a bit older aswell we had haywork. It was done by human work. We lifted hay onto a haypole and with my sisters we did competited who did most. So my muscles are since there ;). We had a working horse and sometimes received help, tracktor or other needed machines. Are those square-bail like haytracks? We had later small heavy to move.

Haywork needed to be done when it was warm and dry.

But it is raining since yesterday and it is cooler.

utR!

Gray Fox
08-12-2014, 11:33 AM
I was the loader and unloader. I waited for the bales to come out of the baler and then stacked them just so on the trailer. One level facing one way and the next perpendicular to the first. If you didn't do this, as I learned my first day, the entire stack could potentially fall over and hurt someone. We would usually stack the trailer about five or six layers high, around eight feet high, and then unload them in the barns and repeat the process of stacking them just so. To say it was a workout would be a huge understatement! Lifting bales that weighed anywhere from fifty to hundred pounds in the scorching, humid, Kentucky summer is brutal. At the end of each day I felt that I completely and totally earned that money! I didn't wear long sleeve shirts or gloves, so I looked like I stuck my hands and arms through glass each day!

Táltos
08-12-2014, 12:48 PM
Yes I do think sometimes so too. It depends on tired you are then it seems to be more boring if there is no variaty.

You have long working days, do you get extra wages or have to get them as free?

utR!
Yes it can become very boring with no variety. I do have variety in what I have to deal with, but after a while a lot of things about it become routine. And as the years start to go by it has become less challenging for me.

The long hours that I work, the trade off is I also have a lot of days off. It is a "three day" work week. Sometimes I work on, off, on, which I don't care for. I can schedule myself to have 4-7 days off in a row without having to take any vacation time.

alan
08-12-2014, 01:56 PM
One thing I am old fashioned about is I like some sort of simply visual link between work and product in a direct sort of way. I am not a fan of work that is essentially manipulating at a remove to make a pile of money for themselves or others that is completely disproportionate to how much effort is put in. That sort of thing is the down side of capitalism. Capitalism is more of a moral force when its simple and transparent IMO. I am very against usury and the fact that Christianity, Islam etc frowns upon it seems to have been swept under the carpet in the west. I like my capitalism straight forward - you do a job, it provides goods or services and you get paid for it in some sort of way in line with demand or fairness. .

Unemployment is something that is also misunderstood IMO. I looked into the common outcry in rabble rousing lowbrow tabloids that freeloaders at the bottom are a major problem by actually looking at the UK budget. Guess what? Unemployment benefit was only 0.5% of the annual budget outgoings. I would pity more than scorn people who live on those benefits because on this side of the pond most people have experienced this for at least a short time in their lives and unemployment benefit is absolute peanuts that you can barely live on (about the equivalent of 350 dollars a month - and remember most things cost a bit more in Europe than the US as we dont have much oil, gas etc of our own) and anyone who chooses to live that way for any length of time must have serious problems of some sort.

I once lived for a year near London during a huge economic boom when an ordinary person straight out of school could quite a job in the afternoon and find another the next day. Even then there was still a few % unemployment. That may seem to support the freeloaders idea but, although I worked, I lived in a really tough area and could observe a sample of the couple of percent of people who dont even work when jobs are very plentiful. The truth was that many of these people were very marginal people often with heath problems, personality problems mental illness and addictions - something that usually stems from some sort of mental problems IMO etc. There will always be a couple of percent of people that it is probably not realistic for them to expect them to get into the work force. Even when there are more jobs than people employers will generally not employ them. You really need to walk among the very poor/a mile in their shoes to understand why its unkind and judgmental to focus on them IMO. I dont seem to remember Jesus walking among stockbrokers and tycoons but I do remember something about not judging others and about eyes of needles.

rms2
08-12-2014, 02:17 PM
Unemployment benefits are just a small part of the expanding nanny socialist state iceberg, which is really about control.

Jesus actually preached to rich and poor alike and didn't play favorites. One thing He never did was preach that the Roman Empire could solve everyone's problems by stealing money from those who work and giving it to those who don't, especially to those who vote for the right set of bloated demagogues.

alan
08-12-2014, 04:26 PM
That wasnt meant to be a left-right comment. i I still think it is not at all Christian to be judgemental or scapegoat to the very poor, weak and marginal as Jesus spent a lot of time focused on them. It was a philosophical/religious point I was making that Jesus often walked among and saved the poor/outcast/meek and often scolded the money lenders, the rich, the powerful, the bellicose, the judgmental etc. Its pretty impossible not to notice this reading the gospels. He probably would not have liked any political system much either most types of capitalism or most types of socialism or hybrids. Its possible to be a good or bad person within any system as its kind of up to the individuals own attitudes and actions and as individuals we are judged. But being judgemental and scapegoating the poor and marginalised is the opposite of Christianity IMO. As I said in my post when you live in a very poor area for a while you can see that a lot of the permanently unemployed people are in a sorry state mentally etc and deserve kindness and understanding.

However it is clear that he didnt want people to be materially or power obsessed, greedy, bellicose, vainglorious etc and did like people who were modest, non-greedy, kindly, undestanding etc. I think the core of it all is in the Sermon on the Mount/Beatitudes. Anyway maybe I should start a thread in the religion section. I am interested in others views on their believes and what the core is to them.


Unemployment benefits are just a small part of the expanding nanny socialist state iceberg, which is really about control.

Jesus actually preached to rich and poor alike and didn't play favorites. One thing He never did was preach that the Roman Empire could solve everyone's problems by stealing money from those who work and giving it to those who don't, especially to those who vote for the right set of bloated demagogues.

utR!
08-12-2014, 06:23 PM
Yes it can become very boring with no variety. I do have variety in what I have to deal with, but after a while a lot of things about it become routine. And as the years start to go by it has become less challenging for me.

The long hours that I work, the trade off is I also have a lot of days off. It is a "three day" work week. Sometimes I work on, off, on, which I don't care for. I can schedule myself to have 4-7 days off in a row without having to take any vacation time.


Taltos you have freedom and autonomy in your work. That's good for a daily life when the life is sometimes hegtic (is that right word) and need to arrange many different things. Yes routine comes and it should just acept.

I do work which is well followed and it sometimes make me think that I do not enough. Or what is enough and when they have a right to say that my volume of work is totally less than in the beginning I started. There are many things which may influence you are not a robot. You are getting older and have health problems.

Best

utR!

utR!
08-12-2014, 06:32 PM
In the Bible you can find a lot of advice how to work and rest. I have noticed it is true if you do not have a rest day or work over too much its disadvantages can be seen sooner or later in your health.

We do worry a lot and work is so essential matter in our life that we need to find out a way to rest, right measure of hobbies and good friends.

Jesus said that He can give the rest for those who are weary and burdened. It comes wth peace, joyce and love. Who can give more and understand us better than Him?

utR!

Táltos
08-12-2014, 07:37 PM
Taltos you have freedom and autonomy in your work. That's good for a daily life when the life is sometimes hegtic (is that right word) and need to arrange many different things. Yes routine comes and it should just acept.

I do work which is well followed and it sometimes make me think that I do not enough. Or what is enough and when they have a right to say that my volume of work is totally less than in the beginning I started. There are many things which may influence you are not a robot. You are getting older and have health problems.

Best

utR!
Yes it's good for when life is hectic, and you have different things going on. But I don't have the same days off all the time. The long hours make it hard to have my daughter involved in sports, such as softball. That involves a few nights of practice, and weekly games which I could not make. But I can work it out to have at least one day off a week that is always the same so she can take ballet lessons. For now while she is young it only involves the one night, and not two or three. And only five recitals a year. If she decides to stick with ballet, there would be more recitals when she gets older. She also really enjoys it, which makes me happy. :)

Mehrdad
08-12-2014, 08:08 PM
Work is good, if it's something you love doing. I remember my dad loved being an auditor and he would work into the wee hours of the morning because he enjoyed it so much. My mother on the other hand didn't really enjoy her job, it was something that paid the bills and kept her away from home and doing domestic duties.

My job is very autonomous, I don't have a manager breathing down my neck watching my every move and what I do. I get requests and complete my task in a timely manner, even though dealing with Big Data everyday becomes very monotonous because other groups get to interpret the results and all you do is get it to them.

rms2
08-12-2014, 08:38 PM
That wasnt meant to be a left-right comment. i I still think it is not at all Christian to be judgemental or scapegoat to the very poor, weak and marginal as Jesus spent a lot of time focused on them. It was a philosophical/religious point I was making that Jesus often walked among and saved the poor/outcast/meek and often scolded the money lenders, the rich, the powerful, the bellicose, the judgmental etc. Its pretty impossible not to notice this reading the gospels. He probably would not have liked any political system much either most types of capitalism or most types of socialism or hybrids. Its possible to be a good or bad person within any system as its kind of up to the individuals own attitudes and actions and as individuals we are judged. But being judgemental and scapegoating the poor and marginalised is the opposite of Christianity IMO. As I said in my post when you live in a very poor area for a while you can see that a lot of the permanently unemployed people are in a sorry state mentally etc and deserve kindness and understanding.

However it is clear that he didnt want people to be materially or power obsessed, greedy, bellicose, vainglorious etc and did like people who were modest, non-greedy, kindly, undestanding etc. I think the core of it all is in the Sermon on the Mount/Beatitudes. Anyway maybe I should start a thread in the religion section. I am interested in others views on their believes and what the core is to them.

My point was that, while Jesus was critical of avarice and the love of Mammon, He never suggested the solution lay with the government confiscating property and deciding who gets what.

alan
08-13-2014, 01:32 AM
Fair enough I cant disagree with that. Jesus didnt specify a system best suited to reflect his ideals. I personally dont think the world has really tried very hard to devise a model system based on Christian values. Maybe those Amish gave it a good try on a small scale though??



My point was that, while Jesus was critical of avarice and the love of Mammon, He never suggested the solution lay with the government confiscating property and deciding who gets what.

utR!
08-14-2014, 07:01 AM
:focus:

It's better (rules) to focus on more in theme of work in this topic than religious/spiritual theme. It can be discussed in other topics ok?

What things helps/helped you to stand stress and avoid burnout in your work?

One thing for me it is going out to walk and check my priorities.

utR!

:)

MikeWhalen
08-14-2014, 11:44 AM
one of the most valuable mental skills I ended up getting, one that more than a few of my peers asked me how to do, was that once I walk out that door at the end of a days work, I LEAVE the work there, I do not take it home with me, period!

I don't stress about what happened, what might happen, what is going on tomorrow or any similar thing.
I do the very best I can while I am there, then that's it!
I resolve that I will tackle what I have to tackle, tomorrow, that fussing about it while at home does no good and often, makes one cranky, irritable or non responsive to our family and friends.

I do not let people, or my work place, 'rent space' in my head that only makes me unhappy or stressed out or such.

Too many people I know take the pressures or problems of work home with them...over the long run, that is a recipe for disaster, imho

Mike

Yggdrasil
08-14-2014, 12:05 PM
Kind of hard to avoid taking work and worries home these days when flexibility is valued so highly. Ofcourse it depends on the job, but my experience is employers often expect a person to be available at all times. With tecknology reaching wide you have to travel pretty far to be out of reach these days.

Táltos
08-14-2014, 01:00 PM
one of the most valuable mental skills I ended up getting, one that more than a few of my peers asked me how to do, was that once I walk out that door at the end of a days work, I LEAVE the work there, I do not take it home with me, period!

I don't stress about what happened, what might happen, what is going on tomorrow or any similar thing.
I do the very best I can while I am there, then that's it!
I resolve that I will tackle what I have to tackle, tomorrow, that fussing about it while at home does no good and often, makes one cranky, irritable or non responsive to our family and friends.

I do not let people, or my work place, 'rent space' in my head that only makes me unhappy or stressed out or such.

Too many people I know take the pressures or problems of work home with them...over the long run, that is a recipe for disaster, imho

Mike
Absolutely! Work is the farthest thing from my mind once I'm off. Though Yggdrasil makes a great point with how many people have to deal with work from home because of the technology that is available today. Which really is not a good thing for them.

MikeWhalen
08-14-2014, 01:20 PM
Well, the only problem I would say with what Yggdrasil said, is there can often be some pretty negative consequences to the quality of someones life and those around them if one can not 'shut off' the work. So at some point, you either do, or don't, worry or 'fuss' about it 24/7, and at some point, that ends up being a conscious choice.

That is the simple point I was trying to make. Different types of work will help or hurt with this ability to 'shut it off', that is a legitimate issue, but even if its normal to get 'contacted' by work in your 'off hours', I respectfully suggest that it is a good skill to learn to switch off once the call is done. Its not always easy, but what useful skill is?


For what ever its worth, my line of work is notorious for psychological and emotional burn out, because people do take the responsibility, stress, pressure, frustration and what not 'home' with them and it grinds on them.

I simply made a decision that at some point, it is unhealthy for me to keep thinking of work when I have left it and I developed the psychological tools necessary to 'turn it off'.

For those that work at home, I am sure you know that it is one of the dangers of that situation, that work and home get so blended together that it is impossible to separate the two and you get the logical and unfortunate consequences.
If you can cope with that, good for you, but some do poorly and need to look at doing things differently to avoid the serious problems to themselves and their families.

as I saw on a co workers 'button' one day, 'Just say no to Burnout'

:)

Mike

rms2
08-14-2014, 04:14 PM
Well, if everyone's work were pleasant, alcohol sales would plummet, and a lot of people in the beverage and hospitality industries would lose their jobs.

So when you have suffered through a difficult day, go home and drink to those folks who still have jobs and are able to feed their families because of your unhappiness.

Look at the service to humanity you are performing!

utR!
08-14-2014, 05:06 PM
one of the most valuable mental skills I ended up getting, one that more than a few of my peers asked me how to do, was that once I walk out that door at the end of a days work, I LEAVE the work there, I do not take it home with me, period!

I don't stress about what happened, what might happen, what is going on tomorrow or any similar thing.
I do the very best I can while I am there, then that's it!
I resolve that I will tackle what I have to tackle, tomorrow, that fussing about it while at home does no good and often, makes one cranky, irritable or non responsive to our family and friends.

I do not let people, or my work place, 'rent space' in my head that only makes me unhappy or stressed out or such.

Too many people I know take the pressures or problems of work home with them...over the long run, that is a recipe for disaster, imho

Mike

Hi Mike,

When you set your own limits it helps in long run. You do overtime when ever you feel freely able to do not then when you ought to do because of big rush. Time is money but how you count which is more valuable time to rest or money to travel for rest?

I read yesterday about one Finnish couple who sold their posession and have had their honeymood for 10 years. Maybe there are many others doing same way in this world who use so little money, living in free by somebodies home helping with cleaning, cooking and so on. Somehow I do envie them but I just wonder how about their pension. Woman said she would not like to live a long life. They are afraid to stuck in routines but what is then when they are old and sick they may have to settle down.

But most of us need to work some become retired earlier than others (like in the army or in hospitalworkes, I think it has changed a bit).

It is a respectul to learn not take work home and somehow empty your head while going to sleep. For it is not always so easy specially when something big changes are coming or need to learn something new. But when getting older you do not stress so much or maybe you are so tired or so....

utR!
08-14-2014, 05:15 PM
Well, if everyone's work were pleasant, alcohol sales would plummet, and a lot of people in the beverage and hospitality industries would lose their jobs.

So when you have suffered through a difficult day, go home and drink to those folks who still have jobs and are able to feed their families because of your unhappiness.

Look at the service to humanity you are performing!

That is one point to keep people at work. But there are other negative sides in drinking because not so many who want to "relax" after a workday can keep the amounts of drinking same when years go by. So it healt care folk has a lot to do and the conseguences of drinking may lead for intensive care and very expensive care systems. It's ok to drink that would harm your health and your closest ones. But this is my opinion.

I have been working as a waitress and saw a some of that life. Only few was able to keep a limit of drinking and behaved well. I liked mostly to serve food and also be when the breakfast was served. But I was much younger then and I liked work and serve different kind of people. I learned a lot.

Best

utR!

utR!
08-14-2014, 05:23 PM
Kind of hard to avoid taking work and worries home these days when flexibility is valued so highly. Ofcourse it depends on the job, but my experience is employers often expect a person to be available at all times. With tecknology reaching wide you have to travel pretty far to be out of reach these days.

Jo det er sĺ. (Yes, it is so).

When your career is going up you need to be flexible and at least reached by cell phone. Some have on call day or weekends, like those who repair damages of storms and so on or doctors specially surgeons. Even working ours are long for them but they have accepted it when they started to study medicin.

Even those who has their own firm business has to strech in their scedules and familylife suffers.

Hej

utR!

alan
08-14-2014, 05:58 PM
I do recall studies that said there are diminishing returns from longer working hours etc. So, although overtime may be desired by workers its actually probably better from a businesses point of view to simply have more staff. I have also read that its surprising how bad for your health each extra hour above the average is. It seems to have an exponential effect. The normal in the UK is a 40 hour week of 5 eight hour days. I know what working say a 50 hour week for a long period is like and there is no doubt in my mind that that extra work does impact on your mental and physical health IMO if you keep it up for many years. I used to do it all the time but came to realise I was wrecking myself, becoming a stress victim and would probably end up 6 feet under well before my time. Now I would rather feel human than make the extra money.

utR!
08-15-2014, 06:46 PM
I do recall studies that said there are diminishing returns from longer working hours etc. So, although overtime may be desired by workers its actually probably better from a businesses point of view to simply have more staff. I have also read that its surprising how bad for your health each extra hour above the average is. It seems to have an exponential effect. The normal in the UK is a 40 hour week of 5 eight hour days. I know what working say a 50 hour week for a long period is like and there is no doubt in my mind that that extra work does impact on your mental and physical health IMO if you keep it up for many years. I used to do it all the time but came to realise I was wrecking myself, becoming a stress victim and would probably end up 6 feet under well before my time. Now I would rather feel human than make the extra money.

That is true that overtime is not so good idea because your productivity is not same and it may increase accident too and other problems. So getting more stuff is cheaper than doing overtime during the week and weekdays. And big boss need big salary + profit for stockholders. Why this world is ruled by money who is owned by small % of people who has power. Rest of us are just coping in our small circles. I know business is business but is there a limit for greed and benefits?

Just this

utR!

Yggdrasil
08-15-2014, 07:28 PM
Well, the only problem I would say with what Yggdrasil said, is there can often be some pretty negative consequences to the quality of someones life and those around them if one can not 'shut off' the work. So at some point, you either do, or don't, worry or 'fuss' about it 24/7, and at some point, that ends up being a conscious choice.

That is the simple point I was trying to make. Different types of work will help or hurt with this ability to 'shut it off', that is a legitimate issue, but even if its normal to get 'contacted' by work in your 'off hours', I respectfully suggest that it is a good skill to learn to switch off once the call is done. Its not always easy, but what useful skill is?


For what ever its worth, my line of work is notorious for psychological and emotional burn out, because people do take the responsibility, stress, pressure, frustration and what not 'home' with them and it grinds on them.

I simply made a decision that at some point, it is unhealthy for me to keep thinking of work when I have left it and I developed the psychological tools necessary to 'turn it off'.

For those that work at home, I am sure you know that it is one of the dangers of that situation, that work and home get so blended together that it is impossible to separate the two and you get the logical and unfortunate consequences.
If you can cope with that, good for you, but some do poorly and need to look at doing things differently to avoid the serious problems to themselves and their families.

as I saw on a co workers 'button' one day, 'Just say no to Burnout'

:)

Mike

Yes I agree, it´s a great skill to learn. One which I have yet to master. Although I am trying hard to be more selective in terms of what I worry about. :) The more intensly focused you get the harder it is to let go, and most especially when the work includes some kind of problem solving.

I worry about the size of my future pension because I may have to support my offspring "forever".

Yggdrasil
08-15-2014, 07:45 PM
Jo det er sĺ. (Yes, it is so).

When your career is going up you need to be flexible and at least reached by cell phone. Some have on call day or weekends, like those who repair damages of storms and so on or doctors specially surgeons. Even working ours are long for them but they have accepted it when they started to study medicin.

Even those who has their own firm business has to strech in their scedules and familylife suffers.

Hej

utR!

Hei!
Yes, I used to have a type of work where one was expected to put in a lot of non-payed hours for late dinners with customers and so on. As I am not really the partying type it was quite stressful. The phonebill was payed by my employer, which made it very difficult to not answer calls. And calls would come at all hours.

utR!
08-16-2014, 01:49 PM
Hei!
Yes, I used to have a type of work where one was expected to put in a lot of non-payed hours for late dinners with customers and so on. As I am not really the partying type it was quite stressful. The phonebill was payed by my employer, which made it very difficult to not answer calls. And calls would come at all hours.

Hei,

That is underestable. So it is behind you and I suppose there were positive things too.

I worked one year vice boss and half of ot basicly as a boss. I had a mobile phone and I needed to keep it on, but quite rerely I needed to answer to it outside working hours. Worst ones were in a buss. Although it was a demanding year but I learn a lot of what human mind can do mostly women. I was put in the situation I was asked things which my boss would have known better (higher you are in a hieracy the more your know). But I managed on my own when it was talked about a results of one project. I think I have learned something valuable of me and my coworkers.

utR!

utR!
08-30-2014, 05:20 PM
Have you ever done volunteer work? What you think how much is enough or is it better to say NO?

I think there is much of of for offer, some times too much.

I used to do some of it. Today I was helping (one of them) to cook thai-food. Timeschedule was thight but alla children and adults fot food something about 50. During the summer I was in youth camp and doing (3 of us) all food for 3 days camp long days. It is challenge because days are long morning to late evening. No wages but it normally volunteer work is priceless and you do get good feelings to be needed somehow.

utR!

Agamemnon
08-30-2014, 05:58 PM
The importance of work in my life?

Truth be told: I'm a lazy creature!

utR!
08-31-2014, 04:36 PM
The importance of work in my life?

Truth be told: I'm a lazy creature!

To be honest;it is honorable in this internet time.

I do like to be lazy but rather to find a work which challenge me and in which I feel this is it . We need to be lazy and relaxed but it does not give us bread and we can not be useful.

When you are just doing nothing you may get very good ideas which need to put in practice?

utR!

apophis99942
09-08-2014, 01:25 PM
Internet forums can be a better place to get appreciated than the workplace. There are also way more job opportunities through online team projects now than there were back when people like me first entered the workforce.