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J1 DYS388=13
09-24-2014, 07:56 AM
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dna-project-launched-find-peoples-7817735

Don't flame me, I'm not asking anyone to test with BritainsDNA. And I'm not Welsh, so I don't care what they find.

Dubhthach
09-24-2014, 08:25 AM
It's unfortuante they mention "saharan tribesmen" in the article, still given it will probably be linked to tv program it raises publicity about the avenue of genetic testing. Also it might provide us with some stats (eg. percentages of different alleles etc.) Though problem with these tv programs often is they are often high on "big statements" and low on actual facts.

rms2
09-24-2014, 11:56 AM
Glad to see they're paying some attention to the Welsh. I hope they avoid all that "Saracen" and "Saharan Tribesmen" horse pucky, but it doesn't look like they will.

But, as Paul said, maybe we'll get some good stats out of it.

Little bit
09-24-2014, 02:22 PM
I can't wait to see the Y results. Will they get published? I've traced my grandfather's Griffith's to Cardigan Wales and he is R-CTS1751 (L21>DF13>CTS1751). His matches, and the few other's I've found, are mainly from Scotland, Wales, and some English. Makes me wonder if it's an older lineage in the isles, pushed to the margins by the Anglo-Saxon/Viking invasions? It appears to be a rare lineage, presently, but not too many Welsh samples seem to be out there. I'm hoping they'll find more CTS1751 guys with this test. :)

rms2
09-24-2014, 03:35 PM
I can't wait to see the Y results. Will they get published? I've traced my grandfather's Griffith's to Cardigan Wales and he is R-CTS1751 (L21>DF13>CTS1751). His matches, and the few other's I've found, are mainly from Scotland, Wales, and some English. Makes me wonder if it's an older lineage in the isles, pushed to the margins by the Anglo-Saxon/Viking invasions? It appears to be a rare lineage, presently, but not too many Welsh samples seem to be out there. I'm hoping they'll find more CTS1751 guys with this test. :)

Since BritainsDNA appears to be in charge of it, they'll probably report their findings in terms of S-series SNP names. Is there one for CTS1751? I have the spreadsheet of S-series equivalents on my home computer, but I'm not at home right now. Maybe someone else knows what it is.

I also want to see what they turn up in Wales for DF41, which is S524 in BritainsDNA terminology.

J1 DYS388=13
09-25-2014, 04:15 AM
Post deleted; BritainsDNA reference to R1b-S300 as Welsh marker is old news.

Little bit
09-25-2014, 10:57 AM
Since BritainsDNA appears to be in charge of it, they'll probably report their findings in terms of S-series SNP names. Is there one for CTS1751?

My grandfather's results for FTDNA shows L195, right next to CTS1751, to be presumed positive, so maybe S354? Otherwise, I don't have that spreadsheet and I don't know.

Edit: On my grandfather's FTDNA page, his Y DNA haplogroup banner shows 'R-CTS1751' but his FamilyTreeDNA printable certificate indicates he's assigned to "Haplogroup R-L195." Therefore, I'll be looking for S354's in BritainsDNA results. B)

Little bit
09-27-2014, 11:58 AM
Ok further update:

Looks like CTS1751 has it's own 'S' name: CTS1751/S3666

I'm trying to determine, on FTDNA's forum, whether my grandfather's presumed positive result for L195, and assignment of R-L195 on his printable certificate is in error or not:
http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?p=392482#post392482

If L195 is an error, then I will be looking for S3666 guys in BritainsDNA's results
If L195 is correctly presumed positive, then S354 guys in BritainsDNA's results.

Ugh!

rms2
09-30-2014, 02:19 AM
I have to say that I think Dr. Jim Wilson of BritainsDNA is an outstanding individual (as is Bennett Greenspan of FTDNA, btw), and I recommend getting confirmation from BritainsDNA of SNP results from any other company, where possible. I just think a second opinion is worth having, if one can afford it. I don't mean to say that any of the dna testing companies is unreliable, - I don't think that at all - just that it is good to get confirmation.

It makes me feel better knowing that BritainsDNA confirmed my FTDNA results.

Emmerson
10-20-2014, 05:39 AM
R1b-L371 / R1b-S300 Group is a wonderful and unique Hg.

The "R1b-L371 Adam" originated about ~5000 YBP (Years Before Present) in Wales.

At least 23 "Ancient" Public Level R1b-L371 Y-SNPs were discovered in 2014 by 12 men in The Wales Discovery Group. (This includes the original Gough R1b-L371 SNP discovered in a 2010 WTY FTDNA test by Thomas K now at YSEQ).

About .08% (1 in 1,190) of Y-DNA tested men Worldwide are in the R1b-L371 Hg. R1b-L371 Group Ancestral Homelands in the UK / Wales might have "R-L371 frequency hotspot percentages" which are likely to be 3 to 6 times higher ... .3% UK to .6% Wales.

Extensive 2015 and 2016 testing will be done in Wales on 7 surname groups. Results will be correlated against other large studies such as the soon to be released POBI (People of the British Isles). http://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/

The R1b-L371 Group "likely does" include living descendants of Welsh Kings & Welsh Princes.

The Welsh political leader, Dafydd Iwan, of Plaid Cymru is in the R1b-L371 Hg as tested by the Labs headed up by Dr. Jim Wilson where he refers to this as the R-S300 SNP (which he did not originally isolate and discover .... it was an "L" series after Leo Little .... and named L371 at a US Lab)

A R1b-L371 man, Rhys ap Thomas (and his men), has the best LR (Likelyhood Ratio) for having delivered the fatal 1485 blow(s) to King Richard III.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhys_ap_Thomas We have a Thomas descendant in our Group.

"The contemporary Welsh poet Guto'r Glyn implies a leading Welsh Lancastrian Rhys ap Thomas, or one of his men, killed the king, writing that he "killed the boar, shaved his head". The identification in 2013 of King Richard's body shows that the skeleton had 11 wounds, nine of them to the skull, clearly inflicted in battle and suggesting he had lost his helmet. Professor Guy Rutty, from the University of Leicester, said: "The most likely injuries to have caused the king's death are the two to the inferior aspect of the skull – a large sharp force trauma possibly from a sword or staff weapon, such as a halberd or bill (the kind Thomas used), and a penetrating injury from the tip of an edged weapon."http://www.castlewales.com/rhysap.html

It's nice to see some Welsh Y-DNA Hg news to Niall this down on this Isle versus all the attention to Irish Y-DNA such as R-M222. All the R1b-L371 men in the Wales Discovery Group will be having a good Welsh Penderyn Whiskey on March 1, 2015, St Davids Day. No Jameson's Whiskey drinkers!

WilliamGriffithHester
03-18-2015, 02:29 PM
I have an autosomal DNA match with Eugene Griffith-McDaniel FTDNA kit No. 259187 who has the R-CTS1751 YDNA. The common ancestors are my immigrant Evan Griffith b 23 Dec 1729 and his wife, Sarah Willoughby of Fauquier Co Virginia.
Pedigree at
www.multiwords.de/genealogy/Gr6 Willoughby Griffith.html
I have extensive Welsh pedigrees posted on my website that might allow tracing this line back many more generations, once we manage to get back before 1700 on it.

The ethnic distribution in this chr 1 segment on both sides of my family is North Sea at both ends with Eastern European, East Mediterranean and Atlantic in the middle. It is hard to guess which parts are Griffith and which are Willoughby: my guess is that the NS is Norman Willoughby and the Atlantic is Celtic Griffith, but the rest is likely to be from a Hussite refugee spouse of one side or the other.

Are any other Welsh names names showing up on the Y DNA comparison runs. These would be from uncles or nephews etc with different patronymics when the Anglo-Saxon officials tagged them.

J1 DYS388=13
03-26-2015, 03:02 PM
BritainsDNA has sent out its March newsletter which includes the following information ---

In late September last year, we launched CymruDNAWales in partnership with S4C, the Welsh language TV channel, and Media Wales. Our goal was to attempt to discover the ancestral genome of a nation and the people of Wales responded wonderfully. We have close on 1,000 samples with more results coming in every week. It has been fascinating and our main findings so far are;

A huge percentage of Welsh men carry the classic Celtic Y chromosome marker of R1b S145. No less that 48% have it, compared with only 15% of men in Central England, to the east of Offa’s Dyke.

Most Welsh motherlines, the mtDNA lineages, probably come from the Ice Age Refuges on either side of the Pyrenees – more than 50%.

Despite these large groups, Wales turns out to be genetically very diverse. We have found markers originating in Siberia, modern Iraq, modern George [sic], the Indus Valley, the Arctic Circle and Africa.

Perhaps most striking is the fact that about 25% of all Welsh men are the descendants in the male line from only 20 patriarchs. These men were powerful, probably kings, warriors and they probably ruled over communities and kingdoms in Dark Ages Wales. This remarkable finding is a consequence of social selection, the habit of leaders having sex with many different women. It seems that social selection was popular in Wales!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-05-2015, 07:33 PM
Hi, I'm new to this Forum and to the subject, so I hope you will bear with me.:) I recently had my DNA results from Cymru DNA. I live in South East Wales and my recent paternal ancestry on my father's side ( Howells) was just over the border in Herefordshire going back to the 1660's. My mother's maternal ancestry was also in Herefordshire ( Leominster) at least back to the 1800's. My bloodgroup is "O" which I believe is more predominant in Wales than England.
My fatherline is R1b-S21 - Germanic ( Ru106\S21) they say "Your S11136 subtype was recently discovered using Chromo2, so its distribution is not yet understood. It belongs to the larger S380 cluster which first discovered in a Tuscan man.You may carry markers that further define your subtype, but do not yet appear on our tree. You will find these in your genetic signature." I also seem to have a small amount of Central Asian DNA which I have read may have been down to the influence of the Huns on the Germanic haplogroup. I hope to participate in further study of this group. I am guessing that my origins in the UK are most likely to be Saxon, although I understand there may be other possibilities.
My Mother line is "J" First Farmers and my subtype is J1c1b2a which I understand arrived in Britain in the Neolithic.
Any thoughts and advice for the novice much appreciated.I find the science difficult.:) Thank you. John

Jean M
04-05-2015, 11:15 PM
Hi, I'm new to this Forum and to the subject, so I hope you will bear with me.:) .... they say "Your S11136 subtype was recently discovered using Chromo2, so its distribution is not yet understood. It belongs to the larger S380 cluster which first discovered in a Tuscan man.. Any thoughts and advice for the novice much appreciated.I find the science difficult.:) Thank you. John

Welcome to the forum John. You are nearly a neighbour of mine.

The first thing to know is that different labs can use different names for the same marker. (Marker=SNP, to get into the jargon). So to find out what other names yours might have, we start with ISOGG http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

That tells us that S380 is also known as Z326, Z329 and Z337. The first of these is in bold, so that is the most common name. So if you don't find anything about S380 when searching this forum or elsewhere online, try Z326.

S11136 is too new to appear on the ISOGG tree, so we go to the YFull experimental tree http://yfull.com/tree/R1b/ .

There we find this tree:
R-Z326 (Y1410) formed 4100 ybp (years before present), TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) 3300 ybp. Samples from Tuscany (Italy), Sweden and Finland.
>R-Y6669 formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybp. Sample Finland
>>R-S21728 S21728 * S11136 * S23955 formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp. Sample from Belgium and one other sample.

Little bit
04-06-2015, 12:10 AM
I have an autosomal DNA match with Eugene Griffith-McDaniel FTDNA kit No. 259187 who has the R-CTS1751 YDNA. The common ancestors are my immigrant Evan Griffith b 23 Dec 1729 and his wife, Sarah Willoughby of Fauquier Co Virginia.
Pedigree at
www.multiwords.de/genealogy/Gr6 Willoughby Griffith.html
I have extensive Welsh pedigrees posted on my website that might allow tracing this line back many more generations, once we manage to get back before 1700 on it.

The ethnic distribution in this chr 1 segment on both sides of my family is North Sea at both ends with Eastern European, East Mediterranean and Atlantic in the middle. It is hard to guess which parts are Griffith and which are Willoughby: my guess is that the NS is Norman Willoughby and the Atlantic is Celtic Griffith, but the rest is likely to be from a Hussite refugee spouse of one side or the other.

Are any other Welsh names names showing up on the Y DNA comparison runs. These would be from uncles or nephews etc with different patronymics when the Anglo-Saxon officials tagged them.


Sorry I missed this post earlier. Eugene is my maternal grandfather and I manage his accounts at 23andme and FTDNA. I sent you a pending known relationship at FTDNA of 5th cousin since Evan is my grandfather's 4th great grandfather and I'm assuming that is probably the relationship. Not sure what you were looking for exactly in terms of Welsh surnames but my grandfather's 10 67 marker matches are:

1 Allen
2 Lewis's
2 Brown's
1 Scott
2 Jones
1 Rowberry
1 Owens

None have snp tested past L21, however. My grandfather does have a fellow CTS1751 match at 37 markers, also descended from Evan Griffith and Sarah Willoughby. He hasn't taken the family finder test, though.

Wing Genealogist
04-06-2015, 01:14 AM
Welcome to the forum John. You are nearly a neighbour of mine.

The first thing to know is that different labs can use different names for the same marker. (Marker=SNP, to get into the jargon). So to find out what other names yours might have, we start with ISOGG http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

That tells us that S380 is also known as Z326, Z329 and Z337. The first of these is in bold, so that is the most common name. So if you don't find anything about S380 when searching this forum or elsewhere online, try Z326.

S11136 is too new to appear on the ISOGG tree, so we go to the YFull experimental tree http://yfull.com/tree/R1b/ .

There we find this tree:
R-Z326 (Y1410) formed 4100 ybp (years before present), TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) 3300 ybp. Samples from Tuscany (Italy), Sweden and Finland.
>R-Y6669 formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybp. Sample Finland
>>R-S21728 S21728 * S11136 * S23955 formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2300 ybp. Sample from Belgium and one other sample.

For clades below R1b-U106 (including Z326 and S21728) the best source for information can be found online at: https://app.box.com/s/afqsrrnvv2d51msqcz2o
This is the tree maintained by me for the U106 Haplogroup Project.

In addition the R1b-U106 Haplogroup Project lists seven individuals who are S21728+.
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/U106/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-06-2015, 05:43 AM
Thank you all for the responses. Unfortunately I couldn't access a couple of the links provided. Trying to interpret the data is very new to me.
My interest really is in general history and in knowing where my ancestors may have come from and when. It is obviously a complex subject. :).The Welsh border with Herefordshire is quite an interesting area as at one time it was the Western Saxon frontier and during the time of the Normans was part of the Welsh Marches, with some Welsh being spoken in Herefordshire up to the 1600's I believe.
I have read different views regarding my surname Howells , Hywel, or variations with some saying it originated in (Welsh) Brittany and another source saying there is also a Saxon origin in Lincolnshire.Then again, I suppose it may have no real relationship to my early British origins. I hope to find out more in time. Thank you for your help. John

Jean M
04-06-2015, 11:17 AM
I have read different views regarding my surname Howells , Hywel, or variations with some saying it originated in (Welsh) Brittany and another source saying there is also a Saxon origin in Lincolnshire.

The Welsh long retained the system of naming by genealogy, so when they adopted surnames, these chiefly reflected paternal names. Howells = son of Howel, Huwal, Hoel (various spellings of the name, which is from the Old Welsh Houel). It is common in the Welsh borders. Such names are also found in England where Bretons settled and some Bretons did also settle in Wales (at Monmouth) in the Norman period, just to confuse matters. The Lincolnshire surname is from the place-name Howell and I doubt very much whether it has any relevance to your family name.

Since surnames were not used in Wales before the Tudor period and often not adopted until much later, they are not a big help in considering deeper ancestry. For example if an Anglo-Saxon man married into a Welsh border family around 900 AD and his descendants also married Welsh people, they would have Welsh names, so by around 1600 one of the line could have the name Howel, which his sons adopted as a surname. He would be just one of many men named Howel, so there would be many unrelated lineages with the same surname. Indeed we find Howells, Powell and related surnames in several different R1b subclades. The majority are not U106, though you are not the only one who is.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/howell/default.aspx?section=yresults


My interest really is in general history and in knowing where my ancestors may have come from and when.

With that surname and a long line of Herefordshire ancestors, it certainly looks as though the majority of your ancestors were Welsh. The direct paternal line is just one of the many lineages you carry. It sometimes does not reflect the majority of your ancestors.

Jean M
04-06-2015, 12:19 PM
Unfortunately I couldn't access a couple of the links provided. Trying to interpret the data is very new to me.

It can be tricky to find your way around Family Tree DNA projects. Bear in mind that S11136 is the same as S21728. Here are the S21728+ individuals listed in the excellent U106 project mentioned above. All are the oldest known direct paternal ancestor of someone whose results are in the project:

Z9>Z331>Z330>Z329>Z326>FGC18842>S21728>A656> FGC4453
Benjamin Warriner, b.c. 1740, Henrico Co., VA [United States]

Z9>Z331>Z330>Z329>Z326>FGC18842>S21728>A656>A655
Wilhelm Voss caval cap.*≈1645 NW-Ger-† 1713 Laar [Lower Saxony, Germany]
Hubert Joseph Glime, b. 20 Feb 1812, Émines, Namur [Belgium]

Z9>Z331>Z330>Z329>Z326>FGC18842>S21728>PF740
William Miller, 1752-1790, Sherborne, Dorset, UK
David Wright, b.c. 1773; d. 1852
Lazarus Smith (1774-1834), Chowan Co., NC [US]

Z9>Z331>Z330>Z329>Z326>FGC18842>S21728>PF740>A312+, A310-
William/Willie/Willis S. Jones, 1830 TN-1861 TN [US]

Z9>Z331>Z330>Z329>Z326>FGC18842>S21728>PF740>A312>A310
Walter Welch, b.bef 1741, Chatham Co., NC [US]

I have highlighted two surnames of interest - Jones, which is the most common surname in Wales, and Welch - a surname meaning Welsh (i.e. foreign in Anglo-Saxon) and suggesting therefore a man of Welsh origin in England. There is a hint here that you may belong in the subclade A312, but you cannot know unless you are testing for that SNP. Hope this helps.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-06-2015, 12:38 PM
Thank you very much. Your posts were helpful, My earliest known paternal ancestor identified by a researcher at Hereford Records Office was a William Howells of Ganarew right on the Herefordshire/Monmouthshire border probably born in the 1660's. John

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-07-2015, 05:31 AM
WingGenealogist could I submit my data to your project ( tested with DNA Cymru ) or would I need to test again please, if it may contribute something? John

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-07-2015, 08:41 AM
Mt motherline results are J1c1b2a "First Farmers", who I understand reached Britain during the early Neolithic. Is it reasonable to assume my ancestry here probably goes back that far please? I'm just wondering about the possibility of it being introduced during later waves of migration. John

Wing Genealogist
04-07-2015, 10:50 AM
WingGenealogist could I submit my data to your project ( tested with DNA Cymru ) or would I need to test again please, if it may contribute something? John

There is no way to transfer your DNA Cymru results over to the FTDNA R1b-U106 Haplogroup Project. However, if you test for A312 at YSEQ.net, we could use your results to add to our U106 tree.

Jean M
04-07-2015, 01:53 PM
Mt motherline results are J1c1b2a "First Farmers", who I understand reached Britain during the early Neolithic. Is it reasonable to assume my ancestry here probably goes back that far please? I'm just wondering about the possibility of it being introduced during later waves of migration. John

This is an intelligent question, as there is always a possibility of someone arriving from a neighbouring country carrying the very same haplogroup that has been around locally for centuries or even millennia. However you are lucky. You have arrived in genetic genealogy at a time when it is possible not just to test for the basic haplogroups, like mtDNA H, J, U etc, but for their much younger subclades like the one you carry - J1c1b2a, which is about 760 years old (according to Behar 2012) = 1255 AD. So there is greater hope of tracking your lineage to something more specific than 'first farmers'.

If you check my table of Neolithic DNA, you will see that:
J1c was present among early farmers in Hungary around 5720-5660 BC.
J1c1 was present in Hungary 5210-4990 BC.
http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/europeanneolithicdna.shtml

After that we have a shortage of J1c1, but as more ancient DNA appears, particularly from the British Isles, you may be able to track your line.

Agamemnon
04-07-2015, 02:19 PM
^^ Interestingly, my own mtDNA haplogroup (J1c5) was found in one of the BB samples (QUEXII4) from the recent Haak et al. paper.

Gray Fox
04-08-2015, 12:29 AM
Very interesting indeed. J1c in mainland Britain does seem to correlate best with the Celtic speaking hold outs in the western extremes of the island. So an association with BB is very exciting! Fingers crossed for a J1c8 to pop up :)

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-09-2015, 08:27 PM
Sorry with all the questions. :) I was a bit surprised when my DNA results listed some "Native American", being in the UK. :) Doing a little digging, I read that this is, more accurately, Central Asian reflecting the influence of the Hun Invasion and it does sometimes show up in Germanic descent. Is this true and is it of any particular relevance in terms of origins? Thanks.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-15-2015, 07:55 PM
What might a A312 SNP test reveal please in relation to my U106 group? I am happy to have one done if it might contribute something useful. A friend involved in a DNA research group thought my raw data might be of interest. John

Wing Genealogist
04-15-2015, 09:32 PM
What might a A312 SNP test reveal please in relation to my U106 group? I am happy to have one done if it might contribute something useful. A friend involved in a DNA research group thought my raw data might be of interest. John

The U106 Project is working on estimating the time and place for many of the subclades. This work is very preliminary and needs to be treated with a grain of salt. That being said, getting people to drill down to the most recent SNP possible helps us refine the estimates.

Not A Number
09-08-2015, 01:12 PM
Hi Im new here and have been given the subtype I-S1954 for my fatherline. It is a relatively rare group which is more common in Wales.

Please could you give me any advice on getting started as I dont have any anecdotal or written information on that side of the family at all.

It would for instance be very good to know which part of Wales the group originated and associated surnames.

Being new to this Im afraid I'm not very clear on how this works so apologies if this is not the way to start looking.

The lineage going backwards from my fatherline group is I-S1954 , S337 , S246 S244 S438 then (a box containing) I-M253 ,S111 and M307. then M258.

Not A Number
04-03-2016, 08:39 PM
Anyone ?

Jean M
04-03-2016, 11:02 PM
Anyone ?

The problem here is that surnames arose late in Wales. In Wales most people only began to adopt hereditary surnames under the Tudors and even in the 19th century some men were still taking their father's Christian name as their surname. So men of many different surnames could have the same Y-DNA haplogroup. See British and Irish surnames and Y-DNA : http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/surnames.shtml

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-04-2016, 06:20 AM
Anyone ?

One thing you could do is try a surname distribution tool like the one below. It could at least give you a broad indication of where the Christian name which the surname is derived from was most common. Possibly more help if you have a fairly uncommon surname to work with, Jones isn't going to help much. As Jean said though, the comparatively late adoption of fixed surnames by the Welsh may not reflect earlier origins, like my own, Howells but a Y group which is probably Saxon.

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

DebbieK
04-04-2016, 08:09 AM
Welsh surnames do in fact often have a strong regional distribution pattern. Even a common surname like Jones has its own unique pattern and is more typical of North Wales than South Wales.. Anyone with an interest in Welsh surnames should have a look at the book "The Surnames of Wales" by John and Sheila Rowlands, where they look at the distribution of a large number of Welsh surnames. They also include lots of maps in their book:

http://www.gwales.com/goto/biblio/en/9781848517752/

06-10-2016, 07:47 AM
My first Post ever on this forum, so be gentle.
I am from SW Wales, and recently got my results from 23andme, so I am happy to share any stats cleaned from my results, from 23andme or from GedMatch. Please note I am a novice with this DNA Science, but I am learning slowly.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
06-10-2016, 08:03 PM
My first Post ever on this forum, so be gentle.
I am from SW Wales, and recently got my results from 23andme, so I am happy to share any stats cleaned from my results, from 23andme or from GedMatch. Please note I am a novice with this DNA Science, but I am learning slowly.

I'm from South Wales too. I hope you are a quicker learner than I am. :)

06-16-2016, 07:25 AM
Hey John, im as "Twp". as the next "Boyo" unfortunately, but will continue never the less,
My Paternal haplogroup is "R1a1a", which might be a Viking ancestor, is that possible? I have read its quite a rare haplogroup in Wales, before my 23andme test, I was sure that it would have been R1bxxx.
My23andme, test didnt give me any Scandinavian for my admixture, but its possible after 1000 yrs, its been bred out of me, just leaving the Paternal line marker of R1a1a.
Reults from 23 and me and Gedmatch:-

To recap im from Llanelli, SW Wales, all Grandparents also were from here. Have some Irish ancestry and Scottish, going back a few more generations to 1700s and 1800s

23andme estimates im 3,1% Neanderthal.

My Paternal haplogroup is typically Slavic " R1a1a" which for a welsh person is very rare, might have been introduced by the Norwegian Vikings according to Wikipedia.

My Maternal Haplogroup is J2a1a , not really sure 23andme says this might have entered Britain with the Anglo-Saxons.

My Autosum is 99.9% European with 0.1% unassigned
of that it says

88.8% British and irish
2.1 % French and German
8.3% Broadly Northwestern European
0.6% Broadly European.

I downloaded my Raw file, and uploaded to Gedmatch
I was unsure how to use this site proper, but tried the Eurogeners Project K13
and clicked on the Oracle-4 button

I think it was showing me how different populations resemble my DNA

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.585532
2 West_Scottish @ 2.985134
3 Southwest_English @ 4.292101
4 Orcadian @ 4.483044
5 North_Dutch @ 5.984516
6 Southeast_English @ 6.234597
7 Danish @ 6.775912
8 Norwegian @ 7.660038
9 North_German @ 8.667493
10 Swedish @ 10.788055

Not sure why it didn't display Welsh? any ideas how this works?

Amerijoe
06-16-2016, 12:42 PM
Welcome sgdavies, as a R1a1a originally from Scotland, as well as a newbie, I can attest it has rare presence in United Kingdom. I'm in that category as well. Have you considered further testing to help define your subgroup placement. I've taken the Y111 test at FTDNA and didn't get any matches beyond the 12 mark. It also placed me at R-Y15121 which has extremely low representation.

If you haven't tested at FTDNA, I think you can transfer your 23andme results. Once there, contact Lawrence Mayka, he is co-admin R1a project and admin. of the Polish project. He can give you directions on your search path concerning R1a1a.

Good luck. Here are my results.
European
100%
Northwestern European
98.2%
British & Irish
90.8%
Scandinavian
1.4%
Broadly Northwestern European
6.0%
Southern European
0.8%
Italian
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
0.3%
Broadly European
1.0%

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Scottish @ 4.429781
2 Irish @ 5.286932
3 Southwest_English @ 5.469750
4 Orcadian @ 5.777565
5 Southeast_English @ 6.059391
6 North_Dutch @ 7.373694
7 Danish @ 7.556104
8 Norwegian @ 9.391395
9 North_German @ 9.892081
10 South_Dutch @ 11.203811
11 West_German @ 12.505179
12 Swedish @ 12.699186
13 French @ 15.991107
14 North_Swedish @ 19.696226
15 Austrian @ 20.098473
16 East_German @ 20.861351
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.185375
18 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 24.460621
19 Southwest_French @ 24.733789
20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 24.961107

JohnHowellsTyrfro
06-17-2016, 05:22 AM
I'm really no expert on this, but when you mentioned Scottish ancestry I did think about a fairly evident Norse/Norwegian presence in North West Scotland and the Isles. Of course the Vikings were around West Wales too, but not so much a settled presence as far as I know. I think from what I've read that at the moment it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between Norse and Anglo/Saxon in terms of DNA because of possible common origins and different migrations.
I'm not sure about the reliability and interpretation of these regional breakdowns, from what I've read, but others will know more than me.

06-17-2016, 07:25 AM
Thanks John, the Scottish, 'grant' surname side of the family comes from my mums side, Mums Maiden name, but I took it on, so the R1a1a is not from her, think there was viking presence in Swansea and the far West Wales and them Islands still have viking names today.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
06-17-2016, 05:25 PM
Thanks John, the Scottish, 'grant' surname side of the family comes from my mums side, Mums Maiden name, but I took it on, so the R1a1a is not from her, think there was viking presence in Swansea and the far West Wales and them Islands still have viking names today.

What I've found (being no expert) is that there is still seems to be a lot of uncertainty about the origins of some of these haplogroups and how and when they arrived in Britain. As far as my own U106 is concerned after a couple of years I've learned that on the balance of probability it is Anglo/Saxon, but could be Norse, Norman, Flemish or Roman period or something else. Sure narrows it down. :)

07-07-2016, 07:08 AM
So are there yet any preliminary results / results? I imagine these tests can be quite subjective?