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Jean M
10-13-2014, 10:26 PM
Francisco Javier Jover Maestre, Gabriel García Atiénzar, Sobre la neolitización de los grupos mesolíticos en el este de la Península Ibérica: la exclusión como posibilidad / About the neolithisation of the Mesolithic Groups in the East of the Iberian Peninsula: Exclusion as a possibility, Pyrenae, Vol. 45, Núm. 1 (2014)

http://www.raco.cat/index.php/Pyrenae/article/view/279150


Although in moments of contact between hunter-gatherer and farming societies different situations may have existed, the neolithisation by direct or indirect acculturation, always from a perspective of integration and governed by progress, has dominated the research spectrum. Detection of problems in various archaeological contexts, together with new evidences, are the arguments used in this paper to present a new hypothesis that, from the conflict theory, analyzes the possible exclusion and self-exclusion of the Mesolithic groups in the process of early Neolithic territorial expansion in the Iberian Peninsula. Without refuting or rejecting other possible scenarios discussed in the research, it is considered that this is a possibility openly undeveloped within the archaeological research that would explain further the archaeological record.

A pdf of this is available online. Just Google on the title.

Jean M
10-13-2014, 10:34 PM
In this paper we analyze various archaeological arguments in order to study in detail, and in view of new information published, the possible processes of mesolithic acculturation:

Lithic industry: a review of many of the sites in which traditional technology transfer has been observed between Mesolithic and Neolithic populations forces us to discard many of the processes of acculturation. These two societies have totally different technologies without apparent transfers.
Settlement pattern: the analysis of the territorial distribution of the last hunter-gatherers and the early farmers indicates a clear territorial exclusion. Neolithic pioneer settlements were located in empty areas with no Mesolithic presence. During the first half of the sixth millennium cal BC, Mesolithic populations were instead concentrated inland, in the mountainous regions. So even chronological coexistence can be observed, they did not share the same territories. This fact hinders possible contacts and acculturation processes.
Stratigraphy: a review of many of the stratigraphies in which acculturation processes were observed shows that they are not free of stratigraphic problems. However, recent excavations, where the processes of formation and transformation of archaeological deposits have been taken into account, show the existence of temporal and sedimentary hiatus between Mesolithic and Neolithic occupations.
DNA: recent studies of ancient DNA in archaeological deposits of the Iberian Peninsula coast show the prevalence of mitochondrial types of oriental origin. The genetic characteristics of the early Neolithic populations are different to the genetic types observed in Late Mesolithic populations. Moreover, there is also a genetic continuity in later Neolithic populations, which would invalidate genetic (and cultural) mixing.

mcg11
10-14-2014, 12:01 PM
It is interesting that the Mesolithic settlements, after the great flood, were in the mountainous regions, which, at first glance would seem unlikely. It suggests to me that either by migration, or by eradication, the coastal settlements were lost/abandoned? We do know that large areas of the Baltic region ( Eastern coast of Scotland and doggerland) were destroyed by the flood and Tsunami; further the Black Sea was inundated by Salt Water from the Mediterranean. This may be evidence of severe coastal effects all the way along the western seaboard of Europe and the Mediterranean coastal areas?

Jean M
10-14-2014, 12:57 PM
after the great flood

There was no great flood over the whole of Europe, let alone the whole world. There were various specific, local and regional floods at various times. These have nothing at all to do with the points made by this paper.

mcg11
10-14-2014, 01:06 PM
There was no great flood over the whole of Europe, let alone the whole world. There were various specific, local and regional floods at various times. These have nothing at all to do with the points made by this paper.

You must be joking? There are some reasonable, scholarly books, on the flooding of the Black Sea. Similarly for the Tsunami effects on the East coast of Scotland. The melting of the ice pack in North America and the subsequent effects: a. cooling of the north atlantic b. Storregae Tsunami and subsequent rising of the ocean are all well documented.

I believe it is pertinent to the paper. Why were the Mesolithic peoples in the mountains? Why did the Neolithic peoples occupy the most fertile land?

J Man
10-14-2014, 01:17 PM
Hmmm this study may be in favour of mtDNA haplogroup H expanding into Iberia with Neolithic farmers and replacing the older Mesolithic mtDNA lineages. Or maybe I am off about this.

Jean M
10-14-2014, 01:34 PM
Why were the Mesolithic peoples in the mountains? Why did the Neolithic peoples occupy the most fertile land?

Because farmers can do most with land suitable for arable farming. Farming permits more people per acre by far than hunting. So farmers outbreed hunters, except in those regions unsuitable for arable farming and/or highly productive for foragers, such as fishing around the Baltic.

America and Africa provide more recent case studies of what happens when farmers move into regions previously the domain of foragers. The latter get marginalised, trapped into areas unwanted by the farmers.

Jean M
10-14-2014, 01:47 PM
There are some reasonable, scholarly books, on the flooding of the Black Sea. Similarly for the Tsunami effects on the East coast of Scotland.

Yes of course there are. Floods happened. They are still happening. Every year we can read about some flood somewhere. And certainly the melting of glaciers at the end of the Last Glacial maximum caused some notable floods.

But we really need to get rid of the idea that there was one Great Flood like Waterworld that destroyed almost everything on earth. There wasn't.

George Chandler
10-15-2014, 04:44 PM
Yes of course there are. Floods happened. They are still happening. Every year we can read about some flood somewhere. And certainly the melting of glaciers at the end of the Last Glacial maximum caused some notable floods.

But we really need to get rid of the idea that there was one Great Flood like Waterworld that destroyed almost everything on earth. There wasn't.

I agree. Historic flood events (even large ones) but nothing like a waterworld (at least in terms of millions of years). I think people have to separate the biblical narrative with the scientific evidence. Not saying that mcg11 was suggesting that - only making my own point.

mcg11
10-16-2014, 02:27 PM
I agree. Historic flood events (even large ones) but nothing like a waterworld (at least in terms of millions of years). I think people have to separate the biblical narrative with the scientific evidence. Not saying that mcg11 was suggesting that - only making my own point.

No I didn't mean "waterworld". I'm simply referring to climatological changes at the end of the last Ice Age. The draining of Lake Agassiz (sp) into the north Atlantic which did two things: sharply decrease the temperature of the north atlantic and also triggered the Storeggae Tsunami. Analysis suggests that it took 30 to 40 days to drain the Lake and in addition to the Tsunami, flooding occurred in Western Europe, the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. There were several other events, in the same general time period, that caused flooding also, spec. the separation of huge glaciers mostly from the Antarctic. This has all been fairly well documented and proven. re: the comment that this has nothing to do with the paper, I would argue it does. These climatological effects caused displacements of people to higher ground and left the better land areas open to the incoming farmers from the East. Except for seafood there was probably a dearth of game for HG's to hunt until the climate settled back to normal.