PDA

View Full Version : Girls rule, Boys drool...in space?



MikeWhalen
10-20-2014, 09:11 PM
I thought this was a pretty interesting article. I suspect some of the things they say are quite correct, re food and ease of movement. For mostly 'cultural' reasons, the 'idea' does not have a chance in hell of being carried through with, imho, what do others think?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/20/why-the-first-mission-to-mars-should-only-have-female-astronauts/

On general principles, assuming the science they quote is correct, I in fact have no problem with sending only females to Mars..with one exception...I might get yelled at by some, but my families motto is 'God hates a coward', so here goes....

Its been my observation that girls (erp, I mean women) tend not to get along with each other in groups...in my facility, we have approx. 90% male and 10% female inmate population, and across the board, all staff, male and female, clinical or correctional, would rather work with the men, even though there are a lot more per staff (and therefore more 'functional' work) and are potentially much more dangerous. Men seem to settle into a working 'pecking order' much more readily, and then just go on with things where as women resent and resist pecking order stuff...and they also tend to pick at issues, at least that's what my female friends have told me...nothing is ever finished, wounds never heal.

All have noted there is constant drama on the female unit and nothing is ever settled. Even when dealing with small numbers, the females tend to not get along-this is a pattern that's been observed over 24 yrs and race seems to be irrelevant. I have had several female friends note that they would/have far more preferred to work with groups of men than women, that they found the same dynamics amongst women at work and professional women too.

Granted my sample size is small and biased due to the nature of my business. It is also not ignoring the problems men can either have, or be, to others. But as a generalized rule, the observation stands and I wonder if a crew solely made of women went to Mars might not have major issues that a male crew does not?

(climbing into my bunker)
:)
Mike

Táltos
10-21-2014, 03:29 AM
Mike you can stay out of your bunker. :) I am actually going to agree with you, and not give you any grief! I would much prefer to work with men than women. Really though I would rather be a stay at home mom more than anything. It's kind of weird how you think one way all your life, and then you have a child and it changes how you think about everything. I think a lot of our society is down the drain with how women think they can have it all with career and family. I might have to go crawl into my bunker with my views!

I have found that woman are catty, cut throat, and cliquey to work with. I hate to say this for my own gender, but it is pretty much true. My best female boss was gay. She was very fair, and did not play favorites. Men are less gossipy, don't look to run to the higher ups all the time, and are more focused on just getting the job done. That said there are some men who will stab you or each other in the back at times. (This is usually done when they are trying to climb up the ladder.) Or there are those that will sexually harass you. And that is something you do not want in the workplace.

Like I always say, don't put all your hens in same hen house. Please a mission to Mars does not need all that estrogen. Just a little. :biggrin1:

alan
10-23-2014, 10:48 PM
In general I think men are good at operating in large groups, rubbing along and wielding power in a kind of way that throws in humour etc to keep a kind of good feeling and reduce the tension of hierachy. In my experience women are not so good at wielding power in a kind of pally rubbing-along sort of way. I think you can see the origins of this gender difference in childhood.

I think you can see the way large groups of boys as children can operate well in a large group, naturally fall into some kind of vague happy hierarchy which, contrary to some stereotypes, actually then is protective of the weaker elements. Boys seem to form groups that are very protective internally i.e. like gangs. Boys tend to operate like that and constant playing team sports for a lot of your childhood also is part of that.

Also, certainly on this side of the Atlantic there is a lot of playful close to bone joshing and ribbing and you have to learn that being oversensitive and getting angry and not playing the game makes you a bit of a jerk. This lack of pussyfooting around people is handy as it tends to mean things are immediately out in the open and dont linger and rows are forgotten in minutes or hours. It also trains you not to be oversensitive.

Another thing I think men are good at is understanding that you dont really do around damaging another mans pride with a straight face. Men know that pride is deeply important to men, their lifeblood really, and really crossing a line that damages someones pride will even as a child get you a busted nose so you dont cut someone down in front of people etc. Damaging a mans pride is probably the main source of severe violence, even murders among adults. Most reasonable men respect a guys basic core pride is sacred and you dont belittle someone. You can take the mickey but it has to have humour.

Boys also generally are more rough and tumble, their free time is less structured, less under the parental gaze etc and are not too bothered about personal space. So as adults they dont get easily offended and when annoyed just say so, have a row, laugh at it, have a drink with the person you rowed with half an hour later etc instead of bottling it all up into resentment etc

I think again you can see the origins of the female patterns in work in childhood. Many girls as children are much more parent/home centred/structured in free time. In friendship they operate in pairs of friends or tiny factions and they dont really learn the skills and compromise of large group dynamics, wielding soft power in a warm way to keep people on board and strong within-group solidarity etc.

Women - and this can be an asset but it can also be an intolerable flaw - also have a tendency towards control freakery and micromanagement to an almost neurotic degree, sometimes upsetting work relationships over minor details, while men are messier, more careless but much much better at group dynamics and that keeps a workplace a lot happier. I too often see a women lose their temper over something minor and obsessing about a detail where the big picture of the cohesion and happiness of the group is completely lose over something trivial.

Another odd phenomenon I have noticed is women tend to put on their serious head and work in what seems to men a weird split personality thing. You dont need to have a work personality and a home personality but I have known several women who appear to do just that. There are women I know who are lovely out of work but absolute psychos in the workplace. Men dont seem to do that..

In general men are enormously better at working happily in large groups IMO and tend to naturally somehow fall into roles based on strengths and weaknesses without a lot of internal conflict occurring. Women tend to get annoyed with each other, all want to take the lead in a group situation with other women and bottle up resentment rather than speak out. Women just dont seem to be pack animals like men.

That all said, women have strengths men dont have and I think that lies in detail, perfectionism, care, neatness, conscientiousness etc in work. Any good business needs a mix of these things but I have known several women who let their perfectionism on minor things create a bad atmosphere. Nothing at work is more important than a happy workplace IMO. Work is a nightmare where the workforce is full of tensions.

GTC
10-24-2014, 12:04 AM
Throughout my working life I have had numerous women tell me that they prefer a male boss to a female one.

I agree that males learn early in life how to form team type working/playing relationships that involve trust and shared skills and that they also learn early not to play psychological games if they want to retain friends. Male bonding is a very real phenomenon.

It's interesting to note that certain hunter-gatherer tribes separate males and females at puberty. Husbands live apart from their wives and children most of the time. In a documentary I've heard one chief say that the practice helps keep the peace in the camp.

MikeWhalen
10-24-2014, 11:01 AM
Alan-you made one point that I have not heard of, but on reflection, I think is often accurate...the group hierarchy that gets established amongst boys/men often is more positive or protective towards the weaker ones in the group....some assume the 'weak' ones always get bullied, and I guess in some groups they do, but I can think of several of my old groups where they were 'protective internally'.
that doesn't mean they and everyone else didn't get teased, guys always do that, but it does teach us to not take everything too serious and that there is a give and take with a fairly good dose of humor...
I do wonder if what we have described is more of a British Isles/western behavior or does it also stand true in cultures that come from fundamentally different roots? (as you and I are of the same basic stock I believe)

M

alan
10-24-2014, 03:20 PM
Alan-you made one point that I have not heard of, but on reflection, I think is often accurate...the group hierarchy that gets established amongst boys/men often is more positive or protective towards the weaker ones in the group....some assume the 'weak' ones always get bullied, and I guess in some groups they do, but I can think of several of my old groups where they were 'protective internally'.
that doesn't mean they and everyone else didn't get teased, guys always do that, but it does teach us to not take everything too serious and that there is a give and take with a fairly good dose of humor...
I do wonder if what we have described is more of a British Isles/western behavior or does it also stand true in cultures that come from fundamentally different roots? (as you and I are of the same basic stock I believe)

M

I think you are right that humour, gallows humour in particular is incredibly important. Your right I think its a British/Irish thing to always mix serious things with humour as well as the thing about what we call banter/messing/joshing that doesnt respect rank but is always light and with fundamental affection underlying it. People from some other cultures think that that looks disrespectful but is actually a sure sign of affection. Its the opposite of an honour culture where people are ruled by fear and false 'respect' (in a Mafia kind of sense) that fear engenders. I would absolutely hate to live in a society like that where you are tiptoeing around people. Better to laugh at someones terrible taste in ties and then have a beer with them lol. That all said, there are of course horrible people who would fit much better into an honour society everywhere. Thank god they are outnumbered by normal regular people who want to get along.

I have to say although I think women can be a little bad in large group dynamics I think women have lots of qualities that are better than men. All the best people I have worked with in terms of being really fastidious have been women. There is a very good book on the psychology of personality that breaks down this in four or five elements and one of them is called 'conscientiousness'. Its the trait that females are said to tend to have more than men. The book, unlike all that crazy outdated Freudian rubbish is a brilliant read for anyone interested in this sort of thing

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1127067.Personality