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View Full Version : C-V20 Big Y, now C-F1628 with 610 Novel Variants



lgmayka
11-19-2014, 09:43 PM
We have our first C-V20 Big Y results, for kit 218881. FTDNA has more specifically classified him as C-F1628. FTDNA believes this is a subclade of C-V20. FTDNA also believes that F1628 is phylogenetically equivalent to V222, but it obviously is not, because this guy is V20+ F1628+ V222- .

He has 610 Novel Variants (by FTDNA's definition). Could that be a new "world's record" for the Big Y?

We still await Big Y results for two V222+ men, kits 171250 and N113953.

RCO
11-20-2014, 02:22 PM
Even rare branches should have grown in the last centuries in Europe following the growth rate of any specific European population. Probably that kind of C arrived in Eastern Europe in the last centuries and the source area can be located in the depths of Asia where we can find a myriad of relic and basal groups usually isolated in remote places where the population growth has been quite unstable and depopulations are common. In my own haplogroup we are quite rare in the Middle East but we have a star-like structure in Western Iberia in the last 1000 years following the general expansion of the Portuguese and Brazilian populations.

lgmayka
11-20-2014, 03:40 PM
Probably that kind of C arrived in Eastern Europe in the last centuries and the source area can be located in the depths of Asia
C-V20 was found in La Brana, Spain, 5940-5690 B.C. (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml).

C-V20 was found in the Great Hungarian Plain, 5300-4950 B.C. and 5210-4990 B.C. (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/europeanneolithicdna.shtml)

C-F3393, a predecessor of C-V20, was found in Kostenki, Russia, over 36,000 years ago (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2014/11/05/science.aaa0114.DC1/Seguin-Orlando.SM.pdf).

C-V20 is clearly very ancient to Europe, and in fact has never been found outside Europe. Rather, C-F3393 and its descendants might have been the earliest yDNA in Europe.

parasar
11-20-2014, 04:06 PM
...

C-V20 is clearly very ancient to Europe, and in fact has never been found outside Europe. Rather, C-F3393 and its descendants might have been the earliest yDNA in Europe.

This has indeed been one of the most fascinating developments from these ancient DNA results from the past year.

But let us step back and ponder this question - if you were to have posited a movement from Africa, South Asia, or East Asia, respectively, to Europe in that period which Y line(s) would have been expected?

RCO
11-20-2014, 04:17 PM
Yes, but we don't know the age of C-V20 and the frequencies in different remote places in Asia where C is common and bushy. If they were continuously living in Europe since the remnants we would see more European branches and more frequency because that living Euro C lineage looks like to be a newcomer to Europe arriving only in the last centuries. So we have several possibilities.

parasar
11-20-2014, 04:34 PM
Yes, but we don't know the age of C-V20 and the frequencies in different remote places in Asia where C is common and bushy. If they were continuously living in Europe since the remnants we would see more European branches and more frequency because that living Euro C lineage looks like to be a newcomer to Europe arriving only in the last centuries. So we have several possibilities.

For V20, the simplest scenario would be a very early European origin and continuous presence.