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redifflal
12-01-2014, 11:53 PM
Just wondering where in the M tree this branches. I haven't been able to find M52'58 on the haplotrees. Is M52'58 the undifferentiated ancestor and M52 and M58 are its subclades?

This is the last part of the quote from Genographic about my mtDNA, not sure if the bolded is talking about M52'58 in particular or the entire M haplogroup altogether.


Your haplogroup is prevalent among populations living in the southern parts of Pakistan and northwest India, where it constitutes around 30 to 50 percent of the mitochondrial gene pool, depending on the population. Conversely, the M haplogroup is absent or rarely found amongst people living west of the Indus Valley, and is found at low frequencies in the Central Asian populations, around 10 to 15 percent. The wide distribution and greater genetic diversity east of Indus Valley indicates that these haplogroup M-bearing individuals are the legacy of the first inhabitants of southwestern Asia. These people underwent important expansions during the Paleolithic, and the fact that some East Asian haplogroup M lineages match those found in Central Asia indicates much more recent (i.e., not founder) mixture into the area from the east.

Haplogroup M has several sub-branches which exhibit some geographic specificity. Subgroup M1 is found at high frequency in East Africa, at around 20 percent in many populations. Because haplogroup M itself is almost entirely absent from the region, M1 individuals likely represent migrations back into the continent from the Arabian Peninsula after people had left Africa. M2-M6 are characteristic Indian sub-groups. Haplogroup M7 is distributed across the southern part of East Asia, and two of its own daughter-groups, M7a and M7b2, are representative of Japanese and Korean populations, respectively. M7 individuals reach frequency in southern China and Japan of around 15 percent, and are found at lower frequencies in Mongolia. The old age of this branch indicates a pre-Jomon contribution to the mitochondrial gene pool in those areas.

redifflal
12-02-2014, 05:33 PM
I have found some answers from the chart here:
http://www.mtdnacommunity.org/human-mtdna-phylogeny.aspx
One of M's subclades is M52'58 defined by G1598A, G5460A
M52'58 has subclades M52 defined by G1462t, C6020T, A16275G and M58 defined by T152C!, A331G, A517G, T3027C, A3209G, G6267A, C6464T, G8269A, T8555C, G13135A, A16230G!, T16243C, C16270T, G16319A, T16352C. M52 further divides into M52a and M52b.

I wonder if Geno tested me for any of the downstream stuff for M52'58 and found me negative and just put me in the larger category, or they don't test that much down the tree...so I could be just a M52 or M58.

parasar
12-02-2014, 07:23 PM
I have found some answers from the chart here:
http://www.mtdnacommunity.org/human-mtdna-phylogeny.aspx
One of M's subclades is M52'58 defined by G1598A, G5460A
M52'58 has subclades M52 defined by G1462t, C6020T, A16275G and M58 defined by T152C!, A331G, A517G, T3027C, A3209G, G6267A, C6464T, G8269A, T8555C, G13135A, A16230G!, T16243C, C16270T, G16319A, T16352C. M52 further divides into M52a and M52b.

I wonder if Geno tested me for any of the downstream stuff for M52'58 and found me negative and just put me in the larger category, or they don't test that much down the tree...so I could be just a M52 or M58.

Do you have any of the highlighted ones listed on your results?
M52 G1462t, C6020T, A16275G
M58 T152C!, A331G, A517G, T3027C, A3209G, G6267A, C6464T, G8269A, T8555C, G13135A, A16230G!, T16243C, C16270T, G16319A, T16352C

redifflal
12-03-2014, 12:17 AM
Do you have any of the highlighted ones listed on your results?
M52 G1462t, C6020T, A16275G
M58 T152C!, A331G, A517G, T3027C, A3209G, G6267A, C6464T, G8269A, T8555C, G13135A, A16230G!, T16243C, C16270T, G16319A, T16352C

The results are posted in this fashion in the .csv file:


.
.
16229,Mt,T,T
16230,Mt,A,A
16231,Mt,T,T
16234,Mt,C,C
16235,Mt,A,A
.
.
16242,Mt,C,C
16243,Mt,T,T
16247,Mt,A,A
.
16268,Mt,C,C
16270,Mt,C,C
16271,Mt,T,T
.
16318,Mt,A,A
16319,Mt,G,G
16320,Mt,C,C
.
16344,Mt,C,C
16352,Mt,T,T
16354,Mt,C,C
.
.


Not sure how to read the letters before and after each of the markers. 16275 doesn't appear to be tested, but 16274 and 16278 are. All the other bolded ones appear to be tested. Am I just an undifferentiated M52'58 as of now?

Ebizur
12-03-2014, 02:30 AM
The results are posted in this fashion in the .csv file:


Not sure how to read the letters before and after each of the markers. 16275 doesn't appear to be tested, but 16274 and 16278 are. All the other bolded ones appear to be tested. Am I just an undifferentiated M52'58 as of now?The results that you have listed show that you do not belong to M58, so I would say that you belong to M52'58(xM58) for now. Whether or not you belong to M52 cannot be determined on the basis of the data that you have shared with us.

redifflal
12-03-2014, 01:34 PM
Thanks Ebizur and Parasar. I see Geno hasn't been able to classify anything downstream of M52'58 due to it not testing 16275. There is a story section where others that have classified as M52'58 have posted their own genealogies. Looks like it is pretty evenly all around the subcontinent.


M52'58 tessynivette I basically belong to the syrian christian community (sub-sect being Syro-Malabar Catholic) from the Kerala state in South India; though I was born and brought up in the state of Goa and currently residing in Bangalore. The syrian christians are generally patrilineal. From what I have heard, my mother's family name is Erakonni (from Pala) and my grandmother's family name is known as Mappilakunnel (from Pala). Erakonni family history speaks of multiple lineage stories : 1) Jewish-Chritians migrating from Babel 2) Saint Thomas christians migrating from Mylopore (Chennai), and 3) Saint Thomas converting local Brahmins families
M52'58 ruby356c My mother is from Mumbai, most likely originally from Goa.
M52'58 skatdare I was born in Mumbai, Mother belongs to a cast/community called Daivadnya Brahmins, natives of Mumbai & coastal region.
M52'58 Chitpavan I'm from western India. I was expecting a strong southwest Asian component in my DNA. So I was pretty shocked when Geno 2.0 results showed an almost exact match with British & German reference populations. It turns out that the Geno 2.0 folks goofed up and have offered a refund (which I'm going to take of course). The new reference populations make much more sense: Southern & Western Indian.
M52'58 redifflal My mother's side is Bengali Brahmins. My maternal grandfather's last name is Banerjee/Bandhopadhyay and maternal grandmother's last name is Chatterjee/Chattopadhyay. Maternal grandmother's mother's last name is Bhattacharya. The ancestral home is Uttarpara, West Bengal which is in the outskirts of Kolkata.
M52'58 SKAPALI I am the first in my family to attempt at discovering our ancestry and using this as a base i plan to interview the elders of our family and obtain further results and try and trace back the family tree.
M52'58 Saqibz We are from Punjab and my mother was from Ferozpur, India. Her ancestors were also from Punjab.
M52'58 Korsheda My mother was born in Calcutta and her parents were born in or near Dhaka. We have stories in our family folklore about merchants who came from the Iran/Iraq and married local women settling in the the East Bengal area. All of my family have brown eyes but our skin colour varies quite a bit - from very pale to very dark. Most of us are average height for our sex but there are a number of us who are distinctly shorter (e.g. males - 5' 5"; females - 5'0"). I'm curious about the North East Asian, North European and Mediterranean components of my DNA. I'm assuming these component come via individuals who were traders of some sort - its great to see how human beings have, throughout time, consistently travelled and made contact with other groups. Its very exciting.


When I search on Google for this mtDNA haplogroup, I get this article linking the Aetas of the Philippines to the Indian subcontinent.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/328467/scitech/science/genetic-study-reveals-some-aetas-and-indians-share-ancient-ancestry

parasar
12-03-2014, 04:31 PM
Thanks Ebizur and Parasar. I see Geno hasn't been able to classify anything downstream of M52'58 due to it not testing 16275. There is a story section where others that have classified as M52'58 have posted their own genealogies. Looks like it is pretty evenly all around the subcontinent.


When I search on Google for this mtDNA haplogroup, I get this article linking the Aetas of the Philippines to the Indian subcontinent.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/328467/scitech/science/genetic-study-reveals-some-aetas-and-indians-share-ancient-ancestry

Yes, that is the reason I had mentioned that both your Y and mtDNA lines have a Philippine connection!
"Haplogroups M52'58 and M52a were observed among the AetaZ and Agta FE groups (Figure 1, Table 2). The M52'58 MCC tree coalesces at 18 482 yrs (CI: 10 638–27 148 yrs; Supplementary Figure 11)."
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v22/n2/full/ejhg2013122a.html
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ejhg.2013.122

By the way "Nature will make its articles back to 1869 free to share to be read online but not to be printed or downloaded."
http://www.nature.com/news/nature-makes-all-articles-free-to-view-1.16460

redifflal
12-04-2014, 01:44 AM
Yes, that is the reason I had mentioned that both your Y and mtDNA lines have a Philippine connection!
"Haplogroups M52'58 and M52a were observed among the AetaZ and Agta FE groups (Figure 1, Table 2). The M52'58 MCC tree coalesces at 18 482 yrs (CI: 10 638–27 148 yrs; Supplementary Figure 11)."
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v22/n2/full/ejhg2013122a.html
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ejhg.2013.122

By the way "Nature will make its articles back to 1869 free to share to be read online but not to be printed or downloaded."
http://www.nature.com/news/nature-makes-all-articles-free-to-view-1.16460

Thanks again. Is this haplogroup likely going to be higher in the eastern part of the subcontinent then, like Bengal, Assam, Orissa, etc, simply due to proximity to Southeast Asia? My particular ethnic group is Bengali Brahmins. I see on the Geno results that besides me there is one other person from the same region, Muslim from East Bengal. The others are from the south, west and north. So is the spread of the haplogroup pretty widespread or are those guys just outliers in their regions?

tejus
01-25-2016, 10:38 AM
Thanks. Is this haplogroup likely going to be higher in the eastern part of the subcontinent. I am ethnic Bengali Brahmins

Gisele H
01-26-2016, 01:46 AM
Thanks. Is this haplogroup likely going to be higher in the eastern part of the subcontinent. I am ethnic Bengali Brahmins

Eaaswarkhanth et al. (2010) could not detect a pattern:

"We completely sequenced the mtDNA genome of
nine M* samples, which harbor 16223–16275 substitutions in hypervariable
segment I (HVS-I), to determine their potential source region.
All nine samples were found to share common coding region variants,
which enabled us to define a new autochthonous South Asian-specific
haplogroup M52, which turned out to share a common origin with
one of its sister branches, labeled here as M52a (Figure 3), detected
among Indian non-Muslims. The same haplogroup has been recently
reported in the Tharus of Nepal and in the Andhra Pradesh population.
50 All nine sequences of Muslims are nested within the M52
lineage (Figure 3). Considering this phylogenetic structuring, the
newly characterized haplogroup M52 is most likely to have an Indian
rather than West Asian or Arabian origin. AMOVA yielded no
statistically significant results for any group distinctions on the basis
of religion (Indian Muslims and non-Muslims), geography (North
India, South India and West India) or other criteria investigated
(Supplementary Table 3)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859343/

nikmahesh
02-13-2016, 05:47 PM
This thread is quite interesting. I'm M52 from 23andMe, so not quite M52'58, but related. We're Marwari baniya, so west/north India I suppose, though no one's lived in Rajasthan in a while. There really doesn't seem to be a pattern so far with M52 and related clades other than a pan India one, perhaps this haplogroup was spread rather early on in the peopling of the subcontinent.

Gisele H
02-13-2016, 06:20 PM
This thread is quite interesting. I'm M52 from 23andMe, so not quite M52'58, but related....

According to the latest phylotree, there no longer is a clade "M52'58". Haplogroups M52 & M58 are quite separate:
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_M.htm

It might be possible to learn more about this haplogroup by researching the Philippine ethnic groups who carry M52a sequences (as was mentioned earlier in this thread).

afssammy
08-13-2016, 12:41 AM
Hello! I tested with 23andme, and they have me listed as M52'58! I then did, a Full Mitochondrial Test with FTDNA, and my Sub-Clade is M52b! Finally, entered my results into the, Jameslick Tool! My results came back M52b1a. I was born in the Caribbean>> Trinidad to be exact and my ancestors came over from India! My Great Great Grandmother who came from Kolkata, West Bengal, India, passed this Haplogroup down! This is all that I know. I have listed my results below>>>
HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS>>> A16129G T16187C C16189T T16209C G16230A A16275G T16278C C16311T G16438A C16519T HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS>>> T63C C64T C195T A247G 309.1C 315.1C T489C 522.1A 522.2C
CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS >>>A769G A825t A1018G G1462t G1598A A2758G C2885T A3434G T3552C T3594C T3866C G4104A T4218C T4312C G5460A C6020T G7146A T7256C A7521G T7954C T8468C T8655C C10400T T10664C A10688G A10750G C10810T C10915T A11914G G13105A G13276A T13506C T13650C T14783C G15043A G15301A Extra Mutationa >>>T63C C64T 309.1C 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C A3434G T3552C T3866C T4218C T7954C T16209C G16438A C16519T
Missing Mutations >>> C146T C152T

Gisele H
08-13-2016, 01:50 AM
...My results came back M52b1a. ....My Great Great Grandmother who came from Kolkata, West Bengal, India
M52b1a is, of course, more exact and correct according to the latest phylotree (http://www.phylotree.org/tree/M.htm):

Consistent with your maternal ancestry, the closest complete sequences are from India and are from this article (http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0007447).

afssammy
08-13-2016, 09:10 PM
Gisele, Thank You for your prompt response. It looks like I will need to practice my Bengali, when I eventually travel to India. Currently, I am still reading the article you sent me. I find it to be, very knowledgeable. With Kind Regards, Alistair.