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View Full Version : CTS3655+ and currently testing for L627 - what do we know??



gigrant74
12-13-2014, 12:06 AM
My mother's borther's DNA (kit# 191822 in DF21 Project) is confirmed at CTS3655 so far and the L627 test is coming in any moment. What do we know about the folks who are positive for these SNPs?? The surname for my mother's family is Muir and they appear to be a branch off the old Mure tree from Ayrshire, Scotland, that dates back to the Battle of Larg and was supposedly in Ireland not long before that. I'm very much interested in the history of this group and the various families that seem to share this signature (especially the Montgomeries, Alexanders, Lusks & Blackwells). These Muirs/Mures are the same family as the countless Moores who came to the US over from Ireland (Ulster Plantation). These Moores descend from one of two Mures that settled Ulster in it's earliest days.

Any input will be welcomed, as well as low-brow humor and general antagonizing!!

Thanks!

KEY
02-27-2015, 01:47 PM
I have tested positive for CTS3655. Whilst my surname (Young) is not amongst your names of interest, they are the same surnames that appear in my "exact matches". I have a paper trail of my ancestors to about 1740 and they were miners from Newcastle upon Tyne. Family tradition has it that we came from the Scottish borders, but I have no proof of that. Looking at the names of my exact matches, the highest concentrations in the 1881 census of virtually all of them is Ayrshire.
As yet there has been no response to your thread but I hope there are other CTS3655s out there who have other bits of the jigsaw.

gigrant74
03-21-2015, 02:52 PM
Mr. Young,

Thanks for your reply. I'm hoping more people chime in on this in time. I'm far too busy with the Grant DNA Project to start a new research project, and probably under-qualified. But there is something there to be found. A date on L627's birth would be fantastic, but probably years away since no one appears to be researching L627 currently.

I'm thinking your family histories are correct. I've found two Mures that went over to Ulster during the earliest days of the Plantation (very early 1600's). It's likely that they are the source for all of the CTS3655+ Moores that immigrated to the US from Ireland (In Ireland, Mure/Muir was spelled Moore, and in Scotland Moore became Muir/Mure again). Hugh Montgomerie, 1st Viscount Montgomerie was a major political figure in the Ulster Plantation and is considered a "founding father" of the Ulster Scots. It is likely that his Montgomeries were kin to the Mure/Muir/Moores and possible that at some point there was a NPE that occured which allows for the separate surnames. A lot of that depends on just how closely related genetically the two families are. Hugh Montgomerie was born in Ayrshire, not far from were the Mures.

Most of the Ulster families were from the border region. I wonder of your Youngs went over to Ireland in the early 1660's and then returned to the border region in the late 17th century like many other families did. You are an exact match at 12 markers with my maternal uncle, but 12 markers means very little. Your kit would need to be expanded to 37 markers before I could even begin to guess at how distantly we are related.

For know I'm guessing that L627 was "born" in Ireland at least 1500 years ago and possibly 2500 years ago, and it was carried over to Scotland soon after and became more common there. I may soon reach out to the Project Admins at the L21 and Subclads DNA Project and see what their plans are regarding further research.

Cheers.

morrisondna
03-23-2015, 02:01 AM
There was a Quentin (or Quintin) Moore associated with Anthony Kennedy of Ballylough near Bushmills about 1625. Anthony Kennedy seems to have been from Balsarroch (or Balsqrrock) near Turnberry in S. Ayrshire. The name Quintin Mure was connected with the Kennedys in S. Ayrshire before the migration to Ireland.

beachsand
07-05-2015, 05:29 PM
I'm cts3655+ but I'm, L625-, L626-, L627- Presumed linage, the white's are from Berkshire and were quakers.

Rory Cain
01-25-2016, 09:38 PM
The surname Muir aka Moore almost certainly had multiple sources, more than one of which were in DF21 territory. The SNP ZZ32 unites two Subclades. L1403 includes the Seven Septs of Laois, a leading sept was O'Modha anglicised as O'More and Moore. A Viar/Moore group are also L1403. CTS3655 is the other branch of L1403. It includes Moores too. CTS3655 is big. For that reason we can't pin it to a particular location as we can with other DF21 sub-clades. So looking at downstream SNPs lime L627 is the way to go. We are building up a picture of L627, CTS1970, Z16539, etc. that's our way ahead.

Cenantua
02-09-2017, 10:19 PM
I just proved positive to L627 and my terminal. Has anything more come about on the possible connection to the Seven Septs? Thanks, R. Moore

Rebecca905
10-04-2017, 10:02 PM
Hello R Moore. I am also R Moore, daughter of R Moore. He was just grouped with L627 and I am also very curious about our possible connection to the Seven Septs of Laois. Did you ever get an answer on that? If so, please let me know. My father is sinking deep into dementia and the only thing we can connect on is his ancestry. I want to tell him everything I can before it is too late.

MacCormaic
11-14-2017, 10:03 PM
My mother's borther's DNA (kit# 191822 in DF21 Project) is confirmed at CTS3655 so far and the L627 test is coming in any moment. What do we know about the folks who are positive for these SNPs?? The surname for my mother's family is Muir and they appear to be a branch off the old Mure tree from Ayrshire, Scotland, that dates back to the Battle of Larg and was supposedly in Ireland not long before that. I'm very much interested in the history of this group and the various families that seem to share this signature (especially the Montgomeries, Alexanders, Lusks & Blackwells). These Muirs/Mures are the same family as the countless Moores who came to the US over from Ireland (Ulster Plantation). These Moores descend from one of two Mures that settled Ulster in it's earliest days.

Any input will be welcomed, as well as low-brow humor and general antagonizing!!

Thanks!

Just a few notes on those surnames.

Muir / Moore, is often associated with Ó Mordhá in Leinster, a descendant of the line of Cú-chorb mac Moga Chorbb, who probably lived around 50AD.


Alexander, possibly be the Irish MacAlandair or MacIllesher (Mac Giolla Ghlais or Mac Giolla Laisir). MacIllesher's were said to be from Fermanagh, and Fermanagh is often said to take it's name from a descendant of Cú-chorb mac Moga Chorbb.

Lusks, while I have no Irish equivalant for Lusks at hand, Cú-chorbs son was called Cormac Luisc (which is translated as Lusk).

Jon Grant
09-26-2018, 03:51 PM
I'm cts3655+ but I'm, L625-, L626-, L627- Presumed linage, the white's are from Berkshire and were quakers.

Three years later, have you found out anything further related to your CTS3655+? I'm also CTS3655+.
Under CTS3655+, according to Family Tree DNA, these are my downstream SNPs:
Z16539
Z16540
BY2724
BY2695
BY2668

3johnl
04-03-2019, 11:14 AM
There is somewhat of a date for L627: https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=170&star=false (click on the block containing L627)
John Springer

IrishViking
09-20-2019, 02:15 PM
Hi all :)

I have just tested positive to L627 also. Are there any further details to the origin of this or if it is the true line of the Mures of Rowallan and hence clan Mure?

Cheers,
Will

Cenantua
10-22-2019, 02:09 PM
If you're still on here, I'd like to discuss this further. I'm a Moore and I've tested to a terminal haplogroup which both branches of Muirs have (and both of those lines are further downstream).

IrishViking
04-21-2020, 08:13 AM
Hi Cenantua,
Of course keen to delve deeper into the topic! I'm very interested to see where it can be traced from.

Colin Campbell
07-28-2021, 09:39 AM
I also have been assigned an SNP of CTS3655 and have 31 private variants. MY Campbell ancestors are from Ross and Cromarty, Scotland with a date stamp of 1777 with the birth of my GGX4.
I am a Big Y 500 tester.
I probably should say for what its is worth, that I have two further Campbells identified on the TIP report, unfortunately they are both Y111 testers, One of the testers shares a GGX5 with me at GD1 with a probability of 99% probability for a common ancestor at 8 generations.

galloglass
08-24-2021, 04:12 PM
I'm waiting on the Big Y 700 results for my father-in-law who is from Panama. He tested with 23andme and came back as Z16539. He had no idea he had Scottish ancestry. Hopefully, the Big Y will get further downstream. I'm working on a hypothesis that he's the product of an NPE as his surname is Basque. I've triangulated back to the Kinninmonth family of Jamaica and further back to Kinghorn, Fife, Scotland. I don't know if that is his Y line or another one, but his Y-line is most likely Scottish.