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RCO
12-14-2014, 10:33 AM
Stratigraphy of J1 SNPs

One of the most important moments in history was the moment of surge of new snps in serie from GHIJK to G, H, IJ and K.
http://www.yfull.com/tree/A0-T/
Probably G moved to the West and remained a single line of more than 300 SNPs. H moved to the East, to the Indian Subcontinent and after only 30 SNPs we still can find old H branches. Branches of K would move to the Far East. Probably IJ remained in the same are around Northern Mesopotamia, Iran, Southern Caucasus and Eastern Anatolia with more 50 SNPs and then I moved to Europe. J remained in the same general area of IJ with more 150 SNPs. When J bifurcated between J1 and J2 we can observe early branches of J2 moving to the West in direction to the Mediterranean and some J2 branches moving to India. J1 remained in the general area of J, IJ and GHIJK.

After the Last Glaciation J1 started to ramificate with modern living branches.
Approximately age of the J1 branches (YFull tree and FTDNA Projects):
16000 BC - 18000 years ago - Y6304, F1614. YF02055 Finland and Z2223 in Eastern Anatolia. Bifurcation after 50 SNPs.
14500 BC - 16500 years ago (25 SNPs after the previous node), PF7261 - HGO3767 Punjabi, Lahore, Pakistan.
14000 BC - 16000 years ago, (5 SNPs after the previous node), Z1828. A long line of 100 SNPs before new divisions in this branch like Z1842, 7000 years ago, 5000 BC.
11500 BC - 13500 years ago, (30 SNPs after the previous node), M365. Bifurcation after 40 SNPs.
10000 BC - 12000 years ago, (15 SNPs after the previous node) towards PF7264, P56.
Between 10000BC and 5000 BC there was a long line of unbroken 60 SNPs with P58 and Z1878, then dividing in Z1889 and S4924-L817
5000 BC - 7000 years ago, line of L817
5000 BC - Z1889 divides in L92 and Z1865
Z1865 divides in Z1853 and L860
Z1853 divides in L862, PF5956
L862, L147 more 15 SNPs
L862 divides in Z2324, Z18297 and PF6328
Z2324 divides in YSC235-YSC234, ZS2518
YSC235-YSC234 divides in three: YSC80, ZS241, FGC4745
YSC 80 divides in L858 and ZS177
Around 2000 BC, 4000 years ago - L858 divides in Z640, YSC76, FGC11, PF4872, all are extremely derived bushy branches in the Middle East, Arabia, Africa and in Europe.

The first basal J1 branches were born in the Northern areas of Eastern Anatolia, Caucasus, Northern Iran, Caspian Sea and they can be related to the Zarzian archaelogical culture. Northern J1 basal branches were related with Alarodian (Hurro-Urartian, NE Caucasian) and Ancient Iranian languages. New basal branches of J1 can easily be found in Iran.
The long line of 60 J1 SNPs between 10000 BC and 5000 BC was related to a Southern movement of derived types of J1 (downstream of P58) and the possible association of those branches with the Halaf and Hassuna archaelogical cultures and the Semitic languages.

Ricardo

J1 DYS388=13
12-14-2014, 11:49 AM
Did the size of the population play a role in the creation of new SNPs?

RCO
12-14-2014, 12:18 PM
A very long line of SNPs without bifurcations means a stable population in a stable region for a long time, that's the case of a hunter-gatherer population. New migrations, new technologies and a new mode of production can explain the bifurcations and the creation of distinct branches of new SNPs, so the increase in the size of the population is a result of new tools, new animals and new crops. Bushy branches full of new SNPs in the same territory is a result of the neolithisation.

J1 DYS388=13
12-14-2014, 01:27 PM
Why did your branch (and mine, BY69) not diversify since neolithisation?

RCO
12-14-2014, 03:17 PM
I think both branches are very old and they were in very competitive places/habitats because both branches were in the central core area : Eastern Anatolia, Southern Caucasus, Zagros, Northern Iran, I think your branch were a bit more to the West (Eastern Anatolia-Armenian Plateau-modern Azerbaijan) and my branch was a bit more to the East (Northern Iran-Southern Caspian Sea). That's a tough area full of diversity and no haplogroup has ever been hegemonic there in quantitative numbers. Only derived SNPs could colonize and prevail in peripherical regions like Western Europe - R1b M269, Eastern Europe - R1a 283, Southern Levant-Southern Arabia J1-L858, etc.

J1 DYS388=13
12-14-2014, 03:31 PM
Actually it now looks like my branch originated in Europe, somewhere between the Bosporus and the Carpathians. Maybe 8,000 years ago. But I like your reasoning and I will think about that.

RCO
12-14-2014, 05:24 PM
Good question. I would presume the branch, the line of SNPs from Z1828, Z1829, Z1832 and all the others until the posterior bifurcation of the Z1842 and BY69 lines still were around Eastern Anatolia because we can observe a good number of cases around that region and in the adjacencies like Georgia. BY69 line further divides in Z18471 and in your specific branch downstream of M8963, BY96 and probably somewhere along that line your SNPs would be entirely born in Eastern Europe. As NGS results are still expensive we can also try to detect the genetic distances in terms of STRs closely matching the haplotypes in a region in order to guess the chronology of the migrations and movements. After some time in a society the haplotype will grow at the same general rate of growth of the entire social group the haplotype belongs in that place. Matches and locations can help with the estimates and projections.

Agamemnon
12-14-2014, 05:39 PM
I'd like to see more data about (East) African J1, until that happens I will always get the impression we're missing an important part of J1's history.
I'll just add that YSC234's age (~5889 yBP) seems to be in line with the breakup of Proto-Semitic around ~5500 yBP, this marker is probably the closest thing we have to a "Semitic clade" within J1 (I'm ready to bet Proto-Semitic speakers carried this marker).

RCO
12-15-2014, 12:08 AM
Yes, we need more studies about J1 in East Africa and in places like the Canary Islands. A recent article about Tunisia - "Sousse: extreme genetic heterogeneity in North Africa". 221 samples, 52 J1-L222, 5 J1-L147 and only one J1-P58, so no basal J1 was found in this article.
http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/suppinfo/jhg201499s1.html?url=/jhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/jhg201499a.html

Agamemnon
12-15-2014, 12:27 AM
Yes, we need more studies about J1 in East Africa and in places like the Canary Islands. A recent article about Tunisia - "Sousse: extreme genetic heterogeneity in North Africa". 221 samples, 52 J1-L222, 5 J1-L147 and only one J1-P58, so no basal J1 was found in this article.
http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/suppinfo/jhg201499s1.html?url=/jhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/jhg201499a.html

This study doesn't tell us much though, save the fact of course that most of the J1 samples seem to be of Arabian origin in Tunisia.
There are two Canarian samples in the J1 FTDNA project, one of these is J1-Z2324* while the other is J1-PF7263. Both of these SNPs are above YSC234 and the latter is P58- (or, to make things clearer, a subclade of L136), of course it could've arrived with the Spanish settlement of the isles or even Phoenician "visits" but we won't know for sure until we test Fregel et al. 2009's pre-hispanic Guanche J1 samples and find which SNPs they test positive or negative for. In fact, it's just as likely that these lineages arrived there with Afroasiatic speakers.

R.Rocca
12-15-2014, 02:01 AM
I'd like to see more data about (East) African J1, until that happens I will always get the impression we're missing an important part of J1's history.
I'll just add that YSC234's age (~5889 yBP) seems to be in line with the breakup of Proto-Semitic around ~5500 yBP, this marker is probably the closest thing we have to a "Semitic clade" within J1 (I'm ready to bet Proto-Semitic speakers carried this marker).

What is the probability that an early wave of J1 and R1b-V88 men brought Afro-Asiatic languages from Western Asia into Africa?

RCO
12-15-2014, 11:03 AM
One SNP found in Iran, Arabia, Somalia and Ethiopia is P56 (L136+ and P58-). More investigation is needed in the African J1 SNPs specially in the old times of the "Green Sahara".

Agamemnon
12-16-2014, 02:13 AM
What is the probability that an early wave of J1 and R1b-V88 men brought Afro-Asiatic languages from Western Asia into Africa?

I'd say it's quite likely, yet again you'd have to subscribe to a West Asian Urheimat for Proto-AA which is easier said than done.
Personally, for linguistic reasons as you might guess, I tend to favour an African urheimat (along the shores of the Red Sea, probably NE Sudan-SE Egypt).
But it's still too early to tell, I keep repeating this because it's true: If we're still able to find people ready to disagree regarding PIE's Pontic-Caspian steppe urheimat despite several centuries of research and empirical evidence, I'd say it's quite possible no consensus will emerge on the PAA urheimat's location in our lifetime especially considering the fact that Afroasiatic studies are in their infancy (and that's a mild way of putting it).
You must remember that PAA might probably be well over 12,000 kya old (at least), I'm sure you'll agree this makes PIE look like a toddler so you can only imagine the problems associated to such an early breakup date (but we're always up for a challenge)... So there's that.

Eventually, if a West Asian (Natufian?) urheimat is favoured, R-V88, J1 and T-M70 are the driving force, these are major AA lineages after all (alongside E-M35.1 and its subclades). If not, it doesn't really change much in regards to the aforementioned lineages, which remain quite common in AA speakers. The main issue here is whether pastoralism speeded up the breakup of AA and eased the dissemination of its branches. The answer, in most cases, is yes. Now, that's where things get trickier since some will claim that pastoralism emerged independently in Africa... However, this claim is quite inconclusive and based on wobbly (if not counter-intuitive) reasoning and evidence. It isn't, by any means, a stretch to assume that pastoralism in Africa is a West Asian innovation. One can easily picture a migration from West Asia with the aforementionned lineages making their first (massive) appearance on the African continent. This means that if an African urheimat is assumed, these lineages still might've been involved since Afroasiatic's early stages.
Regarding J1 in particular (and what I'm about to say also counts for T-M70), I'd be very surprised if the only AA branch tied to its spread is Semitic. Plaster's paper reported very J high frequencies in Northern Omotic speakers (Shekecho, Kefa & Yem) and Cushitic speakers (Afar & Agew), most of which can already be assumed to be J1. This is very significant because we're dealing with important branches of the AA family, including a basal one according to most phylogenies (Omotic).
Then, as I said earlier, we have these interesting J1 cases in the Canary islands, which could potentially be of Guanche origin (or not), coupled with the presence of J1 in pre-hispanic Guanche samples the case for J1's involvement in the spread of AA since some of its earliest stages is quite strong indeed.
There are some J1 subclades in Southern Arabia (L92.1 and P56) which seem to have been associated with a non-Semitic AA language, for instance (Para-Cushitic or Cushitic proper might be worth considering).

J1 in East Africa (discarding Sudan) could potentially be very diverse, and this has important consequences if we are to make an accurate assessment of this lineage's spread.

quxuq
12-28-2014, 08:37 PM
This year was very poor for Y6304 (F1614,F3249) . There wasn't any new participant. I hope in 2015 there will be some. It's so old and widespread, we can't figure it out except its origin. RCO thanks for the informations. Are there another news about that SNP? Thanks Happy New Year

RCO
12-29-2014, 09:51 PM
Thanks Quxuq, Happy New Year ! Yes, I think only professional geneticists organized in scientific institutions related to the field of population genetics can test a large quantity of different basal types of J1 in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Armenia, the Caucasus and the Caspian shores. I was expecting new articles about the history of all major haplogroups in that important region related to the evolution of the principal Western Eurasian basal SNPs with the new NGS technologies for this year (2014) but no new article was published and only our private effort testing our own J1 types could elucidate the structure of the J1 phylogenetic tree, so let's wait for new articles for the next year !

busta3396
01-11-2015, 08:34 PM
I am interested in this thread as I have a J1-P56 ydna, I feel the p56 strain is almost non existent in the dna community. I appear to be the only one at least on family tree dna that has p56 with an iranian ancestry. There appears to be one other from Saudi Arabia and another from Ethiopia. As far as I know the strain originated somewhere in today's kurdistan, and emigrated south around arabia and eventually into ethiopia, perhaps my ancestors split off into iran before the rest continued down to africa. But either way my father's line goes back to Zoroastrians living in Yazd with no muslim or arabic traditions. The dna picture is a bit complicated in Iran as the country is built on the premise that we have one ethnicity or race, namely arians, yet it appears that genetically the country is quite diverse, I would assume that there must have been a lot of mixing or that the designation of arian does not pertain to actual race but to being part of the clan or tribe.

ljiljanm
01-12-2015, 12:33 PM
Hello everyone,

Relatively recently I have tested my y-dna (37 markers), and it seems that I am J1 PF7263. I googled a bit and didn't find almost anything on this SNP. It seems that this SNP is very rare. I have joined J1 ftdna project, and the administrator of the project put my results into the Cluster A, with a man from Ersen, Germany, and with a man from the USA D.March, whom I contacted and he says that his origins are from ex-Yu. He forgot his original surname, and it seems that it was Jaković (according to some military documents of his grandfather at the beginning of the 20.c). The place of origin is probably Dubica, in present Bosnia & Herzegowina. We match on 33/37 markers, and all of these 4 markers are fast mutating. Viktar, from the J1 project, estimates that Jakovic and me had common ancestor 350-550 years ago. Common ancestor with man from Germany lived however more than 1800y. ago. I have also joined serbian dna project (because I am a Serb) and have found two more men who tested only 12 markers, but we match on all of them. These families are Radonjić and Ružić. This is important, and I will later explain why.

I can trace my ancestry back to y.1712 when my ancestor Lazar Šepa was conscripted by the authorities of Habzburg empire in the village of Velika Popina, in Lika, present day Croatia. His close relatives are also conscripted in Dalmatia, village Đevrske, by Venetians in 1709. They were presummably the part of so called Vlachs, or Morlaks groups of nomads, which settled in Dalmatia and Lika one and a half centuries ago. I have even found some documents, which are probably related to them, in which says that morlak katuns (big families) including Radonić and Ružić where settled nearby Šibenik, in Dalmatia, in 1550s. They came with Turks, and presumably originate from present Herzegowina, or the sounthern parts of Serbia, where many Vlachs lived before the Turks increased pressaure against Bosnian and Croatian states, at the end of 15.century. This caused great movement of Vlachs, which were at that time almost all serbian-speaking (they were in centuries before that time almost completely slavizied - serbized) and greek-orthodox. From all of this I can assume that my paternal ancestors didn't belong to the Slavic people which came to the Balkan in 6th century and later, but belonged to one of the preslavic groups of people inhabiting Balkan peninsula. These preslavic groups are mostly characterized by haplogroups E, G, or J2, and within them J1 is very rare among Serbs. On Serbian DNA Project there are only 8 J1 (out of more then 600 tested), and 4 of them (including american March-Jakovic) are PF 7263 and the other 4 are other branches of J1, very distant from PF 7263.

So I can with more or less certainty follow my origin 500y. ago. What is mystery for me is this happlogruop J1, and what puzzles me even more is this very rare SNP PF7263. On J1 project I have noticed that this SNP have people from varios parts of the world: Germany, Ukraine, France, Greece, Italy, Spain, Canarias island, England and even one Arabian, whose place of origin I couldnt find. According to Viktar and his J1 tree, our common ancestor lived some 3500y.ago (for the entire PF 7263). It is important to emphasise that some of these people are Jewish, or of Jewisch ancestry.

All of these people are more than 2200.y. ago distant from me except for the man from Germany (cca 1800y) and these Serbs which are all less then 600y distant.

I wonder whether this group was originally Jewish, and how it ended in Balkan (and in the all other parts of the world)? I wonder if is it possible that one of my distant ancestors was hellenized Romanioti Jew? Or maybe my specific branch of PF 7263 came even before to Balkan? All Jews in group are more then 2200y distant from me, and it is possible that they converted to Judaisam one or two centuries b.c., and my ancestor didn't, but came to Balkan.

Any suggestions, I would like to hear.

Thanks!

DMXX
01-12-2015, 01:03 PM
I am interested in this thread as I have a J1-P56 ydna, I feel the p56 strain is almost non existent in the dna community. I appear to be the only one at least on family tree dna that has p56 with an iranian ancestry. There appears to be one other from Saudi Arabia and another from Ethiopia. As far as I know the strain originated somewhere in today's kurdistan, and emigrated south around arabia and eventually into ethiopia, perhaps my ancestors split off into iran before the rest continued down to africa. But either way my father's line goes back to Zoroastrians living in Yazd with no muslim or arabic traditions. The dna picture is a bit complicated in Iran as the country is built on the premise that we have one ethnicity or race, namely arians, yet it appears that genetically the country is quite diverse, I would assume that there must have been a lot of mixing or that the designation of arian does not pertain to actual race but to being part of the clan or tribe.

You are basically correct. Several layers of propaganda and folklore in recent times have contributed to misunderstandings regarding the heritage constitution in Iran among both natives and outsiders. It was only the Achaemanid (Haxamaneshian) Persians - specifically Darius the Great - who referred to himself as having "Aryan lineage". Other ethnonyms took prominence in the Iranian speaking world beyond this point, although "Aryan" continued as a national designation through "Iran" from the Parthian era onwards. Those alive in the 20's-40's (particularly the middle-upper class) became wedded to the specific notions of "Aryan ancestry" peddled by the Third Reich in an era of Eurocentric thought. Those notions are unfortunately very common still among modern Iranians, a direct result of Reza Shah's own fixation with Iran's "Aryanness".

It does appear that the Iranian plateau was unevenly influenced by different groups from the Iranian migrations onwards. Given the predominance of certain Y-DNA, mtDNA and autosomal motifs across the plateau, those influences don't appear to be marked. Aryan ancestry aside, it doesn't look like modern Iranians irrespective of ethno-linguistic ties have changed very much since ancient times. Azeri Iranians, for instance, are clearly mostly "native" to Iran and derive only a small portion of their/our genetic background from the Oghuz.

The Aryans were but a single layer on the Iranian plateau's genetic landscape and the ethnonym itself is but a vestigial relic maintained solely within the country by its name. Based on Y-DNA R1a1a frequencies, it does appear as if the northern (particularly the northeastern) portions received the most ancestry. Some Iranians have a highly significant pull towards Central Asia (f.ex. NK19191, myself and some Kurds consistently plot as a near-even mix of Near-Eastern and Central Asian), whereas others don't. There appears to be some degree of variation within regions as well. Aside from this, the ancestral patterns in Iran follow geographical trends above all else. All of the above is based on accumulative knowledge acquired from a combination of anecdotal and study results in the absence of ancient DNA (aDNA), opening the (narrow) possibility the above premise is inherently false in at least one major juncture.

Baibars has done some extensive research on these patterns; if he makes an appearance, I'll gladly split this tangent into a dedicated thread for him to discuss his findings. Otherwise, I'll bow out and allow the Y-DNA J1 discussions to continue in earnest.

Arbogan
01-12-2015, 02:05 PM
I am interested in this thread as I have a J1-P56 ydna, I feel the p56 strain is almost non existent in the dna community. I appear to be the only one at least on family tree dna that has p56 with an iranian ancestry. There appears to be one other from Saudi Arabia and another from Ethiopia. As far as I know the strain originated somewhere in today's kurdistan, and emigrated south around arabia and eventually into ethiopia, perhaps my ancestors split off into iran before the rest continued down to africa. But either way my father's line goes back to Zoroastrians living in Yazd with no muslim or arabic traditions. The dna picture is a bit complicated in Iran as the country is built on the premise that we have one ethnicity or race, namely arians, yet it appears that genetically the country is quite diverse, I would assume that there must have been a lot of mixing or that the designation of arian does not pertain to actual race but to being part of the clan or tribe.

I'm also J1 with the PF7263 mutation, although unlike you, I'm a lor-kurd from Ilam. I've yet to find any useful information about the mutation itself. It seems to be related to Jews in europe, and assorted ethnicities in west-asia. It also, I suspect is common amongst my tribe, alot of J1 on the male-lineage(although I have no way of confirming it, until more people get extensive Y-DNA testing). I'm glad you've decided to post here, this way we can keep ourselves updated if there is any new info. Personally from what I've observed it seems to be a lesser branch of the J1, that emerged during the neolithic. Unlike J1* (which is associated with northern-mesopotamia and anatolia) it has it's coalescence further south. It seems to be related to the split between desert nomads that came to be Arabs and various other ancient tribes, as they moved further down south(signified by the p58 branch) and a related group of neolithics that stayed in the Zagros range and the Levant regions(P56). p58 seems much more common amongst Afro-asiatic speakers and people who've been in-contact with west-Asian desert nomads for a longer time. While P56 is totally understudied.

J1 DYS388=13
01-12-2015, 02:09 PM
I would get a second opinion on the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor between you and similar cases by using the easy calculator at http://dna-project.clan-donald-usa.org/tmrca.htm

dp
01-12-2015, 05:52 PM
I am interested in this thread as I have a J1-P56 ydna, ....


Hello everyone,...

Welcome to Anthrogenica!
I have a relative that just tested as a J1 with 23andme. I suspect he's off of a Scandanavian clade.
David Powell
dp :-)

J1 DYS388=13
01-12-2015, 06:17 PM
J1 is quite rare in Scandinavia. Here's a rare example --- https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z0C7lmnLIDx4.kQRaWcsg-lmU
Ask your relative to contact me via 23andMe email.

dp
01-12-2015, 06:19 PM
Figured it out. He's in I1.

in any case Welcome to Anthrogenica. Guess I'm in the wrong thread. :-)

Shamash
01-13-2015, 11:35 AM
Hi everybody, I'm new here but some of you might know me from the J1 y-DNA project. Looking forward to interesting discussions here!

Humanist
02-14-2015, 09:14 AM
Hi everybody, I'm new here but some of you might know me from the J1 y-DNA project. Looking forward to interesting discussions here!

Welcome to the forum, Shamash! I love the username. :) As I am sure you know, those of us who speak a Semitic language use a word derived from the name of the god "Shamash" whenever we speak of the sun (Sureth = šemša).

RCO
02-15-2015, 12:28 PM
YTree v3.4 at 15 February 2015 - J1 Estimation of age
http://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/

J1PF4675 * YSC0001283/CTS5394/PF4728 * CTS7176/PF4737... 177 SNPsformed 31300 ybp, TMRCA 18800 ybp
J1*
J1aZ2218 * Z2392/CTS7116/PF4736 * Z2213/CTS3068/PF4700/YSC0001264... 18 SNPsformed 18800 ybp, TMRCA 18800 ybp
J1a*
id:HG03767PJL
J-Z2217Z2217/CTS11731/PF4864 * Z2391/CTS1958 * Z2393... 3 SNPsformed 18800 ybp, TMRCA 18800 ybp
J-Z2217*
J-L620Y2358/S24620 * YSC0000171/PF4809 * Z2348/PF4674... 31 SNPsformed 18800 ybp, TMRCA 16000 ybp
J-L620*
J1a1CTS10294 * M365.1/M365.4/M365.2/M365/M365.3formed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybp
id:YF01554PRT
J1a2L136formed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 14700 ybp
J1a2*
J1a2aP56
J1a2bPF4652 * Z2384/CTS12224/PF4789 * P58/PAGE8/PF4698... 77 SNPsformed 14700 ybp, TMRCA 9000 ybp
J1a2b*
J1a2b2Z2319/CTS2453/PF4806 * CTS463 * PF4799... 57 SNPsformed 9000 ybp, TMRCA 5900 ybp
J1a2b2*
id:YF02485ITA [IT-BA]
J-Z2317Z2317formed 5900 ybp, TMRCA 5500 ybp
J-Z2317*
id:HG02253PEL
id:HG01431CLM
J-Z2313Z2329/PF4845/YSC0000234 * Z2313/PF4638formed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 5500 ybp
J-Z2313*
J-Y10735Y10754 * Y10750 * Y10745... 25 SNPsformed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp
J-Y10735*
id:YF02669SAU [SA-01]new
J-Y11776Y11780 * Y11776 * Y11779... 2 SNPsformed 1850 ybp, TMRCA 500 ybp
id:YF01401
id:YF02866new
J-Y3081Y3082 * Y3084 * S16807... 27 SNPsformed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybp
J-Y3081*
id:HG01571PEL
id:YF01553
J-Y5399S22932 * S17446 * S12192... 15 SNPsformed 2500 ybp, TMRCA 850 ybp
id:YF01470BLR [BY-MI]
id:YF01883
J-Z1884YSC0000080 * Z1884/CTS10835/PF4828 * CTS1894... 1 SNPsformed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 5100 ybp
J-Z1884*
id:HG01686IBS
J-Y2919Y5761 * Y2920 * Y2919... 1 SNPsformed 5100 ybp, TMRCA 5100 ybp
J-Y2919*
J-Y3441Y3441 * Y3442formed 5100 ybp, TMRCA 5100 ybp
id:YF01432
id:YF01542
J-Y6094Y6094 * Y6096 * Y6095formed 5100 ybp, TMRCA 4000 ybp
id:NA20543TSI
id:YF02023
J-Y3015Y3015/FGC11 * Y3014formed 5100 ybp, TMRCA 4500 ybp
J-Y3015*
id:NA12282CEU
J-S21237S21237 * Y5585 * Y4352formed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 3700 ybp
J-S21237*
id:YF01863
J-Y4348Y4348formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3700 ybp
J-Y4348*
J-Y4349Y4349 * Y4350formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3200 ybp
J-Y4349*
id:YF02288
id:YF02775SAU [SA-01]new
J-Y10723Y10723 * Y11545formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybp
id:YF02006
id:YF02671new
id:YF02770new
J-Y5321Y7684 * Y5324 * Y5321... 5 SNPsformed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp
J-Y5321*
id:YF02568
id:YF02571
J-Y9271Y9271formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp
J-Y9271*
J-Y10957Y10957formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp
J-Y10957*
id:YF02579
J-Y8961Y8961 * Y10953formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2400 ybp
J-Y8961*
id:YF02574
J-Y8957Y8957 * Y10733 * Y8963... 20 SNPsformed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 950 ybp
J-Y8957*
id:YF02576
J-Y8981Y8981 * Y10948 * Y10943formed 950 ybp, TMRCA 800 ybp
id:YF02565
id:YF02573
J-Y5323Y5323formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 1900 ybp
J-Y5323*
id:YF02580
J-Y5320Y5320formed 1900 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp
J-Y5320*
J-CTS9501CTS9501formed 1850 ybp, TMRCA 225 ybp
id:YF01704KWT
id:YF02396KWT
J-Y8537Y8538 * Y8537formed 1850 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybp
J-Y8537*
id:YF01865ARE
id:YF02539
J-Y10728Y10728 * Y10729 * Y11519formed 1600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybp
id:YF02354
id:YF02665new
J-Y8960Y10958 * Y8960 * Y8962... 3 SNPs
J-Y8964Y8968 * Y8970 * Y8964... 5 SNPsformed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 650 ybp
id:YF02567SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02570SAU [SA-01]
J-Y9272Y9272 * Y9273formed 2400 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp
J-Y9272*
J-Y8977Y8977 * Y8973 * Y8967... 7 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 1150 ybp
J-Y8977*
id:YF02564SAU [SA-01]
J-Y10941Y10942 * Y10941formed 1150 ybp, TMRCA 1150 ybp
id:YF02563SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02572SAU [SA-01]
J-Y9274Y9274 * Y9275formed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp
J-Y9274*
id:YF02566SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02569SAU [SA-01]
J-Y8966Y8966 * Y8982 * Y9441... 8 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 750 ybp
J-Y8966*
id:YF02543SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02549SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02550SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02602SAU [SA-01]
J-Y8969Y8969formed 750 ybp, TMRCA 700 ybp
id:YF02556SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02558SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02774SAU [SA-01]new
J-Y8975Y8975formed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp
J-Y8975*
id:YF02575
J-Y8959Y8959 * Y10964 * Y10965... 3 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 1950 ybp
id:YF02577
id:YF02578
J-Y6074Y6074formed 3200 ybp, TMRCA 3200 ybp
id:YF01458
id:YF01711
J-Y6369Y6369 * Y6371 * Y6370formed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 4500 ybp
id:YF01457AUT [AT-6]
J-Z640Z640 * Z644/S430 * Z641... 4 SNPsformed 5100 ybp, TMRCA 3900 ybp
J-Z640*
id:YF01383
J-Z642CTS11754 * Z2292 * Z2295/CTS1922... 4 SNPsformed 3900 ybp, TMRCA 3800 ybp
J-Z642*
id:YF01581
J-Z2293Z2293
J-Z2293*
J-CTS130CTS12963 * CTS130 * S27127... 3 SNPs
id:HG01130CLM
id:HG01437CLM
J-Z2266Z2278/CTS7034 * Z2276 * Z2272... 20 SNPs
id:HG01935PEL
id:HG01069PUR
J1a2b3L817formed 9000 ybp, TMRCA 9000 ybp
J1a2b3*
J1a2b3aY4066 * Y4090 * S4925... 45 SNPsformed 9000 ybp, TMRCA 8600 ybp
J1a2b3a*
J1a2b3a1L816formed 8600 ybp, TMRCA 1100 ybp
id:HG00181FIN
id:YF01671
J-Z1828CTS6379 * Y4412 * Y4404... 96 SNPsformed 18800 ybp, TMRCA 7900 ybp
J-Z1828*
J-Z1842Y4401 * Y3498 * YSC0000416... 12 SNPsformed 7900 ybp, TMRCA 6800 ybp
J-Z1842*
J-Y10734Y10734 * Y11645 * Y11644... 1 SNPsformed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 6600 ybp
id:YF01755RUS [RU-VLG]
id:YF02702RUS [RU-CE]new
J-Y4423Y4405 * Y4423formed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 6400 ybp
J-Y4423*
J-Y3496CTS1460 * Y3496formed 6400 ybp, TMRCA 6400 ybp
J-Y3496*
J-CTS7188Y6916 * CTS7188formed 6400 ybp, TMRCA 6000 ybp
J-CTS7188*
id:HG01494CLM
J-Y6915Y6919 * Y6915 * Y6917formed 6000 ybp, TMRCA 5400 ybp
id:YF01978
id:YF02133GEO
id:YF02685RUS [RU-KC]new
J-Y5345Y5345 * Y5358 * Y5354... 11 SNPsformed 6400 ybp, TMRCA 4700 ybp
id:YF01559GEO
id:YF01904RUS
J-Y7683Y7683formed 6400 ybp, TMRCA 5300 ybp
id:YF01721RUS [RU-CE]
id:YF02394
J-Y6304Y6306 * Y6304 * F4306... 42 SNPsformed 18800 ybp, TMRCA 9900 ybp
J-Y6304*
id:YF02055FIN
J-M10096M10453 * Z2223 * F1369... 3 SNPs
id:HG01256CLM
id:HG01253CLM

Rick
02-15-2015, 02:11 PM
Do any of the J1 experts on the forum know what if anything has been discovered about a small str-based cluster in the region of lowland Scotland and northern England. This was found about 7 or 8 years back and was characterized by several unique shared off-modal STR values. Surnames included Jordan, Graham, Dunwoody, Brown, and a few others I don't recall from memory. They were fairly distinct within J1. We're any SNPs ever found for this group? Any idea where they fit within the overall J1 clade?

RCO
02-15-2015, 02:27 PM
Yes, they are well known in the J1 tree
http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree
They are a cluster with L1253, Z18182, Z18183, Z18185, Z18189, Z18193-Z18195, Z18200, Z18821, Z18823
Probably the Normans brought some Saracens to Britain because they belong to the same branch with Arab haplotypes (FTDNA 215410, M8961;). The possibility of Syrian archers in Roman Britain would depend on the chronology of the entire group.

busta3396
02-26-2015, 11:56 AM
Why do some of them have no ages reported, like p56?

Shamash
03-15-2015, 11:07 PM
A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture (http://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2015/03/13/gr.186684.114.abstract)

Refined topology of the Y-chromosome haplogroup J1:

4063

Please note the Yemeni Jewish SNP, B237 which is the same as FGC3723 (ChrY:18038642) and the Druze L829+ sample!

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/suppl/2015/02/18/gr.186684.114.DC1/Supplemental_Table_S8.txt

FGC3723 happens to be my subclade...

Agamemnon
03-15-2015, 11:26 PM
These Armenian Z1865 cases look interesting. Also, I think the Druze could potentially prove to be very diverse as far as J1 goes, the L829 sample just highlights that.


Welcome to the forum, Shamash! I love the username. :) As I am sure you know, those of us who speak a Semitic language use a word derived from the name of the god "Shamash" whenever we speak of the sun (Sureth = šemša).

Indeed: "Shémesh" in Hebrew, "Shams" in Arabic, "Shimsha" in Jewish Babylonian Aramaic, "Shapash" in Ugaritic, "Shämsh" in Tigre... All ultimately derived from Proto-Semitic *śamš-.

Shamash
03-15-2015, 11:49 PM
These are the haplotypes of the two Yemeni Jewish FGC3723 (B237) samples:

Assembly-ID Cust.Sample-ID Population Haplogroup DYS19 DYS385a DYS385b DYS389 I DYS389 II DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS437 DYS438 DYS439 DYS448 DYS456 DYS458 DYS481 DYS533 DYS549 DYS570 DYS576 DYS635 DYS643 Y GATA H4
GS000016887-ASM Israel49 Yemen Jew J1b1 14 13 17 13 16 23 10 11 12 14 10 11 20 14 15 23 11 13 17 19 21 9 11
GS000016973-ASM ISR41 Yemen J1b1 14 13 17 13 16 23 10 11 12 14 10 11 20 14 15 23 11 13 17 19 21 9 11

Shamash
03-16-2015, 12:06 AM
I agree: Druze J1 will probably turn out very diverse! It's so good that finally samples are sequenced in scientific studies. It gives us so much more mindfood!

Agamemnon
03-16-2015, 12:11 AM
I agree: Druze J1 will probably turn out very diverse! It's so good that finally samples are sequenced in scientific studies. It gives us so much more mindfood!

It's undeniable that we've made much progress with regards to J1 these last few years, however we still need archeogenetic data, unless that comes about everything we say is an educated guess at best... Can't wait to find out where J1 was by the past, the first J1 to show up in an ancient sample will prompt some serious celebrating from my part.
Of course when that happens, I hope the appropriate SNPs will be tested for.

RCO
03-17-2015, 11:43 AM
Karmin et al can find new J1 ancient basal branches. The Azeri J1c in their nomenclature is ISOGG's J1a, so that's not the most basal J1 branch. We have the most basal of the J1 branches with F4306 and F1614 and my own branch M365 is also older than 10000 years (below L620) and not shown in their interesting article. So J1 had several ancient branches older than the 10000 years timeframe proposed in the article.

4081

RCO
03-22-2015, 12:52 PM
Have you seen Regueiro's article: From Arabia to Iberia: A Y chromosome prospective.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25701402


J1a2b2a*-L222.2 is the only J1a2b-lineage observed in the Northwest African (NA) populations of Tunisia and Morocco. In this region, this mutation displays frequencies of 25% in Sfax, 15% in Béja and 17% in Morocco. However, no individuals with this sub-haplogroup were found in Spain where only paragroup J1a2b2*-L147.1 is detected. The highest frequency of L222.2 is seen in Qatar (39%) followed by Oman (12%), Egypt and Bahrain (5%), and UAE and Yemen (2%). Conversely, the L147.1 mutation ranges from 59% in Yemen to 2% in Bahrain. It is interesting to note that J1a2b2a1-L65.2 is observed at low frequencies in Qatar (7%), Bahrain and Yemen (2%) but reaches 21% in UAE. Haplogroup J1a2b1-L92.1 was only detected in two populations and at low frequencies: UAE (4%) and Oman (3%). Undefined paragroup J1a2b*-P58 is found at low frequencies in Yemen (6%), Bahrain (5%), Oman (2%) and Qatar (1%).

No Arab L222.2 J1 types were found in Iberia, only Berber E-M81 types.

RCO
03-26-2015, 11:06 AM
I received an email "Exciting News for Members of Haplogroup J1" with the new FTDNA SNPs found on the J-M267 Deep Clade Panel and unfortunately, but again, as in the case of the FTDNA J1 tree, our M365 SNP was not included. OK, FTDNA can only lose credibility and confidence when they skip some old recognized SNPs for ideological or whatever reasons, I never received an explanation about the exclusion of M365 from the FTDNA tree. I tested the old FTDNA J deep clade test in 2006 and FTDNA included the J1 SNP M365 as J1b and I was positive. M365 is one of the oldest officially recognized J1 clades in the Y Chromosome Consortium and in ISOGG's tree. I tested the complete NGS Full Genomes test and I had 188 new "good qualities" SNPs (FGC5987 to FGC6175) still being M365 positive. We belong to a very ancient J1 branch with approximately 14000 years (Y Full tree). Unfortunately the new FTDNA J-M267 deep clade and the FTDNA tree don't show our J1-M365 SNP, the same one FTDNA tested positive for our group. We have 6 haplotypes with 67 markers from Western Europe and we are one of the bigger and oldest Western European specific J1 cluster with STR genetic distances estimated to be older than 2000 years and matching some Caspian and Iranian haplotypes and cluster. Semargl classify my cluster as the "Caspian-Atlantic branch". In my case we belong to a Medieval Portuguese lineage of Cristãos Velhos and in the Western Iberian history we took part and saw the Reconquista when Islamism and Judaism usually associated to some completely different types and SNPs of J1 had a different history and a different fate in our old worldwide Empire, see Maria Regueiro's article - From Arabia to Iberia: A Y chromosome prospective. Now we can easily observe in articles like Monika Karmin, A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture, the fact that the ancient and basal types of J1 were never "Semitic" and the oldest clades of J1 can be found in Eastern Anatolia, the Caucasus, Northern Iran and in the Northern regions of the Middle East

4169

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 01:31 PM
^^ Before saying anything about J1's most basal clades, I think we need archeogenetic data.

RCO
03-26-2015, 02:08 PM
If we observe the first J1 basal branches
F1369 - F1614
PF7261
Z1828
M365
They all have diversity and concentration only in the Northern regions like Eastern Anatolia, Caucasus, Northern Iran. Of course some isolated individuals can be found anywhere but that's definitely a tendency.

Some authors even say that a a downstream SNP like P58 is more diverse in places like Armenia

In Search of the Origin of Haplogroup J1-P58
Haplogroup J1-P58; Armenian Highland; Origin
A. Margaryan1, H. Sahakyan1,2, M. Haber3, A. Bahmanimehr1, S. Rootsi2, P. Zalloua3, R. Villems2, L. Yepiskoposyan1;
Y-chromosomal haplogroup J1, one of the most frequent male lineages in the Near East, is believed to have originated around 10-15 kya in Northern Mesopotamia. J1 along with R1b and J2is generally considered as a genetic marker for the Neolithic expansion, therefore the study of its origin and spread is essential for tracing back ancient human migrations and expansions from the Near-East. In this study, we report a new potential source population and geographic location for the origin of J1-P58, a major sub-clade of haplogroup J1.
Previous studies did not explore the region of Armenian Highland when investigating J1-P58 origin. For this study we have genotyped 453 Armenian samples representing eastern, central and western parts of the highland, 297 Azeri and102 Qashqai samples from Iran, as well as used already published results of different comparative data sets.
The highest J1-P58 variance was observed in the Armenian population from the central part of the highland (regions of Alashkert and Bayazet). The mean age of J1-P58 in this region based on 8 STR markers, was estimated to be the oldest among the studied populations, dating back to 19.4 ky when using the evolutionary mutation rates. It is worth mentioning that the obtained result is based on the analysis of one ethnically homogenous territorial group located in a geographically restricted region in the central part of the Armenian plateau. We believe that this approach leads to better time estimates and significantly narrows down the geographic area where J1-P58 could have originated.
http://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?sKey=033f317e-adbe-4a7b-891c-ee0405066ca3&cKey=c2dc15ee-695b-4849-ab1b-a52a9da26b0e&mKey={6A55B106-9C1E-4903-9B31-9FDF3C69C4D6}

Agamemnon
03-26-2015, 02:24 PM
Sure, the question is whether Eastern Anatolia & the Transcaucasus always held that title or whether the current picture is due to the fact that mountainous areas are diversity-friendly (coupled with the region's complex demographic history). Remember, a month or so ago it was common knowledge that R1b originated in the very same area (Eastern Anatolia, NW Iran, Transcaucasus) because of the high diversity of basal R1b branches reported in that part of the world, everyone agreed on this to some extent... Now, with the Haak et al. 2015 paper, not quite.

Trying to draw conclusions from contemporary DNA is tricky, an educated guess at best. Given J1's complex distribution and phylogenetic pattern, I wouldn't exactly be surprised to find out that former J1 diversity hotspots disappeared under the pressure of other subclades. I mean, who knows what the region looked like 4000 years ago? For all I know, M365 could've diversified on the steppe or with the BMAC culture back then... That's how scarce our knowledge is right now.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: We've had our fair share of surprises while uncovering Europe's genetic past, considering the Near East's complex history I'd say there's no reason to expect anything different. Quite the opposite, really.

paulgill
03-31-2015, 12:43 AM
Good thread.

Agamemnon
03-31-2015, 12:51 AM
I think your relative need to take J1-M267 SNP Pack test at FTDNA, it is on sale now for $99, I have in my group a very distant match from Norway, he is J1-Z1853+ and L862-. He and another one from Germany have taken BIG Y test, they may be closely related.

I'm constantly amazed at how diverse P58 really is, I think this goes on to show we need ancient genomes to sort things out at this point.

paulgill
03-31-2015, 03:02 AM
I'm constantly amazed at how diverse P58 really is, I think this goes on to show we need ancient genomes to sort things out at this point.Mine is with ancient connection. Surname and Z1853 mutation go together in this case, this one have a definite connection to Eber, Hebrew or Khabur Rivers, the tributaries of Euphrates and Tigris.

Shamash
05-17-2015, 06:39 AM
Here's the link to a distribution map for subclade FGC3723 and its derived SNPs (FGC3708/Z18258/Z18256). It took me five years of work to get to this point:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zteAwLzEunS4.kU3bHkfnJBM8

One can clearly see the expansion from the north to the south of the Arabian peninsula.

RCO
05-17-2015, 12:58 PM
Almost ten years of DNA research now. I am Y-DNA J1-M365 with 188 new SNPs (FGC5987 to FGC6175). Y-DNA J1 is rare in Western Europe and J1-M365 is rare in the entire J1 haplogroup, so we can observe how rare is J1-M365 in Western Europe. Now we have six FTDNA 67 markers haplotypes from the Westernmost Atlantic Littoral of Eurasia. An organized star-like Portuguese-Brazilian cluster in the last 1000 years. Minho, North Portugal and Galicia, NW Spain. An English haplotype from Devon with 1600-2000 years of distance approximately from the Western Iberian cluster. The next closest outgroup can be found in Northern Iran and around the Caspian Sea, where ancient and basal types of J1 evolved. The Iranian J1-M365 types and samples are only present in the SMGF and YHRD databases. Cristãos Velhos, Fronteiros do Velho Império Português no Brasil. YF01554 at YFull tree. Mcgee Y-Utility: Y-DNA Comparison Utility

4608

The J1 M365+ Google map:
http://tinyurl.com/5owkuh

Myth
06-11-2015, 03:24 AM
I ended up being put in by68 z18280-z18282 its downstream of s12192 which appears to be part of the Kohanim subclades. Unfortunately not much information really about either that I can find.

RCO
06-11-2015, 01:28 PM
Myth, have you received your Big-Y results ? If you have your BAM file you can join YFull ?
BY68, Z18280-Z18282, so those are the core SNPs of the Eastern European J1 Kohanims !
http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

Myth
06-11-2015, 05:35 PM
Myth, have you received your Big-Y results ? If you have your BAM file you can join YFull ?
BY68, Z18280-Z18282, so those are the core SNPs of the Eastern European J1 Kohanims !
http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

i did the 67 marker test, have not done the big Y

How can you tell they are eastern european kohens?

RCO
06-11-2015, 08:00 PM
Observe in the FTDNA Public J1-M267 Project the clusters:
079. J-BY68 Cluster A [DYS385b≤16]
080. J-FGC9941 Cluster A [DYS385b≤16]
080. J-ZS2361 Cluster A [DYS385b≤16]
The religion and location: Ashkenazis from Eastern Europe
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults

RCO
06-20-2015, 03:26 PM
One of my J1 SNPs is FGC6064, it looks like it represents a very ancient bifurcation, around 15000 ybp (Big-Y FTDNA#381875, Kitching. J-M267 FTDNA Project - J1 tree v-183). I think we can discover some ancient Iranic J1-SNPs. We have discovered 188 new good qualities in my Full Genomes test (FGC5987to FGC6175) and I presume most of them, the most ancient, were born and lived around Northern Iran and the Caspian regions before they moved to Western Europe, to Roman Gallaecia, to Minho, with the Iranic Alans and to Brazil with the Portuguese Empire. We have relatively close STR matches (around 2000-2300 years) between our J1-M365 Western European Atlantic cluster and a Northern Iranian Caspian cluster.
The unique J1-M365 Atlantic-Caspian mini-modal is DYS393-13/ DYS390-22/ DYS19-15/ DYS385a-12/ DYS388-16/ YGATAH4-9/ YCAI-II 21-22.
The only place in the world where J1 (xZ1828, xDYS388-13, xP58) can be found above 10% is around the Southern Caspian area, Gilan, in populations like the Gilaki and some Mazandarans where the J1-M365 type can be found. Viola Grugni et al. Ancient Migratory Events in the Middle East: New Clues from the Y-Chromosome Variation of Modern Iranians (2012).
J1 is one of the most geopolitical haplogroups because they took part in very old conflicts. J1 types in Portugal (and later in Brazil) have seen wars against Arabs and Moors and persecutions and expulsions of Jews, of course all Islamic and Jewish individuals were free to stay adopting the major Christian religion of the land otherwise they were expelled. Levantine and Arabic types of J1 are quite different and distant from the basal J1 types from Eastern Anatolia, the Caucasus and Northern Iran. We can find almost all J1 types in Portugal, but the genetic distance between them is far greater than any Swedish R1a M-417 to a Nepalese R1a M-417, or even a Norwegian Q-M930 to a Native American Q-M930, so J1 branches are quite old in comparison to other haplogroups and the genetic distance can be a hint about different ethno-historical origins. I am still waiting an article with next-gen Y full sequencing of the Iranian (xZ1828, xDYS388-13, xP58) types. I can finance the test to any J1-M365 Caspian individual.

Ricardo Costa de Oliveira

RCO
07-05-2015, 08:00 PM
FTDNA kit 381875, Kitching from England is positive to FGC6064 (14301501 A-T) and negative to M365. He has all the 111 markers and only one 12/11 match (and no other match) with FTDNA kit K2112 Bashirov, 67 markers, Chechen Republic, Dyshny-Makh'mud gar. They have a very specific haplotype, Bashirov also has the same unusual J1 DYS388=14 and he most probably should be also FGC6064 positive sharing several SNPs with Kitching. K2112 Bashirov also has only one match 12/11 (and no other match) with 381875 Kitching. So, the J1 PF4657+ FGC6064+ branch just like the M365+ can also be found close to the Caspian Sea and they have some Ancient Iranian clusters in populations like the Gilaki. FGC6064 has bifurcated more than 15000 years ago and we can find individuals from the Eastern Caucasus (if K2112 Bashirov is really confirmed as FGC6064+), from the Caspian Sea to the Atlantic Ocean in Portugal.
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/m365/default.aspx?section=yresults

Arbogan
07-05-2015, 08:06 PM
anything new on P56?

RCO
07-05-2015, 09:04 PM
About P56 I think they still need a BIG-Y or a FGC test.

RCO
08-29-2015, 02:55 PM
Now we have the new YFull tree J1-FGC6064 node formed 14600 ybp, TMRCA 14600 ybp
http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/
FTDNA kit 387541 also tested positive to FGC6064 at YSEQ. He has Mexican origins.

Mario411
02-16-2020, 01:50 AM
I am a J1-P58 (J-Z18294) now living in Texas, USA of New Mexico, USA parents. My understanding is that the Canary Islands were a jumping off point for the "New World". I am one of the descendants of the Sanchez de Inigo Franciscan Priest. Which of two sons I don't know. He came by way of Pueblo de Los Angeles, New Spain in the 1630's or 1640's from what I gather. Those islands are due east of mid-Florida and with the southerly ocean flow off Africa I could see how they would land in New Spain. This all to potentially explain the sole J1-P58.