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rms2
12-24-2014, 08:09 PM
I think it might be interesting to collect Britain's DNA "Red Head Test" results in one place for those whose results indicate they are carriers of a red hair variant and those who are full-blown redheads. I would like to see who got what variant and which variants seem to be most common in which places.

I don't have red hair myself, but according to BDNA I am a carrier of the red hair variant Arg160Tryp.

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Arg160Tryp is the SNP rs1805008, and T is the risk allele. Since red hair is a recessive trait, it takes two T's at that location to produce a red-haired phenotype. I know from his Family Finder results that my father is also a carrier of Arg160Tryp. One of his older sisters, my Aunt Lois, was a natural redhead.

My ancestry is mostly British Isles, but I do have one French line (surname Micou) and one Dutch line (surname Snedeker) in my pedigree, both on my father's side.

jeanL
12-24-2014, 08:48 PM
Both my paternal grandmother, and my girlfriend are carriers of the derived SNP rs1805005, they are both heterozygous, not sure what the significance of it is?

rms2
12-24-2014, 09:00 PM
Both my paternal grandmother, and my girlfriend are carriers of the derived SNP rs1805005, they are both heterozygous, not sure what the significance of it is?

According to SNPedia that one was "associated with light blond hair color in one study": rs1805005 (http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs1805005).

Since blond hair is also recessive, one would have to be homozygous there to have blond hair.

I had blond hair as a young boy, and my hair was still pretty light as a teenager, but it went really dark once I hit my twenties and remained that way until it started turning gray.

rms2
12-26-2014, 04:05 PM
I know there are some other people who post here at Anthrogenica with Britain's DNA "Red Head Test" results. I hope you all will post your results in this thread.

Meanwhile, if you have test results from FTDNA (Family Finder), 23andMe, or some other company that show you are a carrier of a red hair variant, please post them here. It would be interesting to see what varieties of red hair variants are out there and what the geographic and/or ethnic connections are.

If you have Family Finder results, you can at least check for rs1805008 (Arg160Tryp), because that SNP is included. T is the risk allele (i.e., if you have at least one T at rs1805008, you are a carrier). I think there are a couple of other red hair variants included in Family Finder, but I don't remember what they are right off hand. I believe there are several of them in 23andMe's test.

rms2
12-26-2014, 04:14 PM
Here's a list from 23andMe's blog (http://blog.23andme.com/news/snpwatch-researchers-find-link-between-red-hair-and-avoiding-the-dentist/) of some of the red hair variants. Check your Family Finder and 23andMe results for them.

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Note that rs1805008 (Arg160Tryp or Arg160Trp) is also called R160W.

Wulf Warrior
12-26-2014, 05:15 PM
When I was young I was bleach blond, but when I hit my teens it went to a dirty Blond. Now it's a mousy brown/Really really really dirty blond, with a gold tinge to it and even blonder in the sun.

Here are my results,

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I hope you can see those, I'm awful at posting pictures :/

Salkin
12-26-2014, 06:11 PM
Here are mine. I was a little surprised, as I don't have any redhead relatives at all that I'm aware of. Promethease did find a 'red hair carrier' variant in my mother, but not in me.

I was blond as a kid but darkened in my teens to my present medium brown. Both parents have brown hair (well, had before greying).

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Salkin
12-26-2014, 06:21 PM
Here's a list from 23andMe's blog (http://blog.23andme.com/news/snpwatch-researchers-find-link-between-red-hair-and-avoiding-the-dentist/) of some of the red hair variants. Check your Family Finder and 23andMe results for them.

Looks like rs34474212 was not genotyped by either company. In the rest I seem to lack redhead alleles.

rms2
12-27-2014, 06:52 PM
Thanks for posting your results, Wulf Warrior and Salkin.

Interesting that BDNA says that Arg163Gln is a "weak variant". I wonder what they mean by that. Does it produce a duller shade of red, or what?

The Val92Met red hair variant is attributed by the authors of this report (http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/06/02/molbev.msu180.abstract) to "Neanderthal introgression".




Abstract

Skin color is one of the most visible and important phenotypes of modern humans. Melanocyte-stimulating hormone and its receptor played an important role in regulating skin color. In this paper, we present evidence of Neanderthal introgression encompassing the melanocyte-stimulating hormone receptor gene MC1R. The haplotypes from Neanderthal introgression diverged with the Altai Neanderthal 103.3 KYA, which postdates the anatomically modern human – Neanderthal divergence. We further discovered that all of the putative Neanderthal introgressive haplotypes carry the Val92Met variant, a loss-of-function variant in MC1R that is associated with multiple dermatological traits including skin color and photoaging. Frequency of this Neanderthal introgression is low in Europeans (~5%), moderate in continental East Asians (~30%), and high in Taiwanese aborigines (60-70%). Since the putative Neanderthal introgressive haplotypes carry a loss-of-function variant that could alter the function of MC1R and is associated with multiple traits related to skin color, we speculate that the Neanderthal introgression may have played an important role in the local adaptation of Eurasians to sunlight intensity.

MacEochaidh
12-27-2014, 07:24 PM
I'm rs1805008 CT

My Dad's first cousin on his Quinn side (Derry) has red hair and my Mom had auburn hair. Most of my Dad's side is dark brow/black and my Mom's side is brown/auburn/blonde. My daughter has dark brown hair.

rms2
12-27-2014, 07:26 PM
I'm rs1805008 CT

My Dad's first cousin on his Quinn side (Derry) has red hair and my Mom had auburn hair. Most of my Dad's side is dark brow/black and my Mom's side is brown/auburn/blonde. My daughter has dark brown hair.

Thanks, Miles!

That makes two of us thus far who are Arg160Trp carriers.

Salkin
12-27-2014, 07:57 PM
Arg163Gln appears to be rs885479, with the redhead allele being A. SNPedia's stats say just about nobody in the CEU (Northern Europeans in Utah) group have AA but about 20% have AG, as I do. AG and AA seem to be very commonplace in Chinese and Japanese, though, and somewhat common in Mexicans. Huh.

MacEochaidh
12-27-2014, 10:46 PM
I'm rs1805008 CT

My Dad's first cousin on his Quinn side (Derry) has red hair and my Mom had auburn hair. Most of my Dad's side is dark brow/black and my Mom's side is brown/auburn/blonde. My daughter has dark brown hair.

I should have noted before that I'm 75% Irish and Scot, and 25% French Canadian (mostly from Brittany).

Krefter
12-27-2014, 11:30 PM
I have TC in rs1805008, but I have full blown red hair. I'm predicted by Hirisplex to have brown hair.

ADW_1981
12-28-2014, 01:31 AM
Thanks for posting your results, Wulf Warrior and Salkin.

Interesting that BDNA says that Arg163Gln is a "weak variant". I wonder what they mean by that. Does it produce a duller shade of red, or what?

The Val92Met red hair variant is attributed by the authors of this report (http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/06/02/molbev.msu180.abstract) to "Neanderthal introgression".

I'd be very surprised if this reached 5% in Europeans. This isn't a common west European variant. I'm surprised data anywhere would support this.. I was under the impression this version was mostly in Asians - both east and south.

Salkin
12-28-2014, 02:00 AM
I'd be very surprised if this reached 5% in Europeans. This isn't a common west European variant. I'm surprised data anywhere would support this.. I was under the impression this version was mostly in Asians - both east and south.

Which? Val92Met or Arg163Gln?

Petr
12-28-2014, 08:36 AM
I have results of 19 relatives:

Val60Leu: 5 heterozygous
Val92Met: 5 heterozygous
Arg151Cys: none
Arg160Trp: 2 heterozygous
Arg163Gln: 1 heterozygous
Asp294His: none

None of them has red hair.

rms2
12-29-2014, 03:46 PM
I have results of 19 relatives:

Val60Leu: 5 heterozygous
Val92Met: 5 heterozygous
Arg151Cys: none
Arg160Trp: 2 heterozygous
Arg163Gln: 1 heterozygous
Asp294His: none

None of them has red hair.

Are they all Czechs?

Petr
12-29-2014, 04:14 PM
Yes, they are all Czechs.

rms2
12-29-2014, 05:10 PM
Yes, they are all Czechs.

Sorry to be a pest, but if any of those who are red hair carriers are male, do you know their y haplogroups? Are you a red hair carrier yourself?

Petr
12-29-2014, 05:51 PM
No problem.

Both Val60Leu and Val92Met, 5x: father R1a1a1b1a2b3 (R-CTS3402) and his son and daughter, father R1a1a1b1a1a (R-L260) and his son.
Both Arg160Trp and Arg163Gln 1x: R1a1a1b1a2b3 (R-CTS3402) - different person than above
Arg160Trp 1x female

I'm not a red hair carrier.

rms2
12-29-2014, 06:02 PM
No problem.

Both Val60Leu and Val92Met, 5x: father R1a1a1b1a2b3 (R-CTS3402) and his son and daughter, father R1a1a1b1a1a (R-L260) and his son.
Both Arg160Trp and Arg163Gln 1x: R1a1a1b1a2b3 (R-CTS3402) - different person than above
Arg160Trp 1x female

I'm not a red hair carrier.

Those five people carry both Val60Leu and Val92Met?

The next one carries both Arg160Trp and Arg163Gln?

I'm a little confused.

rms2
12-29-2014, 06:11 PM
I have TC in rs1805008, but I have full blown red hair. I'm predicted by Hirisplex to have brown hair.

Very interesting. Thanks for that. My youngest daughter has red hair, although it's starting to go more auburn. It was a brilliant orange when she was little. I don't know what, if any, red hair variants she carries, since I have not had her tested.

I don't have red hair myself, although I am an Arg160Trp carrier, but I did have a lot of red in my moustache and beard when I was younger, before they started going gray. Here's a terrible photo of me at age 18 taken from an old college ID (you can even see the old punch card hole in it). It shows my reddish moustache.

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Petr
12-29-2014, 08:04 PM
Those five people carry both Val60Leu and Val92Met?

The next one carries both Arg160Trp and Arg163Gln?

Yes, this is correct.

Krefter
12-29-2014, 10:09 PM
Very interesting. Thanks for that. My youngest daughter has red hair, although it's starting to go more auburn. It was a brilliant orange when she was little. I don't know what, if any, red hair variants she carries, since I have not had her tested.

I don't have red hair myself, although I am an Arg160Trp carrier, but I did have a lot of red in my moustache and beard when I was younger, before they started going gray. Here's a terrible photo of me at age 18 taken from an old college ID (you can even see the old punch card hole in it). It shows my reddish moustache.

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I'm sure most people who grow red facial hair but not head hair, are a carrier of some type of red hair-mutation.

rms2
12-30-2014, 12:57 PM
I believe I have shared this video clip elsewhere before, but it is interesting, so here it is again. Arg160Trp is referred to as "Tryptophan Red" by Alastair Moffat. I know some people here really don't like him, but he doesn't go to any real extremes in this clip.


http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/04/26/sweeney-redhead-gene.cnn.html

Salkin
12-30-2014, 01:24 PM
I believe I have shared this video clip elsewhere before, but it is interesting, so here it is again. Arg160Trp is referred to as "Tryptophan Red" by Alastair Moffat. I know some people here really don't like him, but he doesn't go to any real extremes in this clip.


http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2013/04/26/sweeney-redhead-gene.cnn.html

I'm a little confused by his reasoning. OK, red hair is several times less common in Scandinavia, yes, and that could mean northern latitudes isn't the main factor... but then he goes on to say it has to do with the cloudy climate? I don't know if he's been to Scandinavia lately, but overcast grey is far more common than clear is - at least for most of the year. I didn't really find Britain any cloudier than home when I lived there.

rms2
12-30-2014, 01:28 PM
I'm a little confused by his reasoning. OK, red hair is several times less common in Scandinavia, yes, and that could mean northern latitudes isn't the main factor... but then he goes on to say it has to do with the cloudy climate? I don't know if he's been to Scandinavia lately, but overcast grey is far more common than clear is - at least for most of the year. I didn't really find Britain any cloudier than home when I lived there.

I agree. I don't think red hair really has anything to do with climate or cloudy skies. It seems to me people often look for very simplistic answers to baffling questions.

MJost
12-30-2014, 03:45 PM
what about rs12203592?
Condition Black vs. red hair color
Gene IRF4
Risk Allele T

I have CT and did have a reddish tint to my beard, once.

It showed the largest allele frequency difference between the Irish individuals and those individuals of Northern, Central European and Eastern European descent.

MJost

Krefter
12-30-2014, 05:59 PM
Red hair is so rare that there's no way to trace it's origins through ancient DNA(unless we get 100s of genomes), and it could rise or decrease in a population very quickly. People around the North sea have the highest amount but percentages vary within that region, and 5,000 years they share most of the same ancestors with most east Europeans, like Poles, who have under 1% red hair.

Plus red hair might be a polymorphic trait, and doesn't have a single source gene wise. People shouldn't be throwing out simplistic theories and romanticized stories, which they ofntly do, and just say it's a mystery.

jeanL
12-30-2014, 06:47 PM
what about rs12203592?
Condition Black vs. red hair color
Gene IRF4
Risk Allele T

I have CT and did have a reddish tint to my beard, once.

It showed the largest allele frequency difference between the Irish individuals and those individuals of Northern, Central European and Eastern European descent.

MJost

I'm CT on that one as well, so is my mother. Whenever I grow my beard I have hairs that are dark reddish.

rms2
12-31-2014, 01:43 PM
Red hair is so rare that there's no way to trace it's origins through ancient DNA(unless we get 100s of genomes), and it could rise or decrease in a population very quickly. People around the North sea have the highest amount but percentages vary within that region, and 5,000 years they share most of the same ancestors with most east Europeans, like Poles, who have under 1% red hair.

Plus red hair might be a polymorphic trait, and doesn't have a single source gene wise. People shouldn't be throwing out simplistic theories and romanticized stories, which they ofntly do, and just say it's a mystery.

You're right, and I have not seen any studies yet that really break red hair down by its variants and show which is most common where or how the various combinations work.

This has been an interest of mine ever since I found out I was a carrier.

MJost
12-31-2014, 01:57 PM
I'm CT on that one as well, so is my mother. Whenever I grow my beard I have hairs that are dark reddish.

My red tint was "NOT" as profound as some of these gents shown.

https://www.google.com/search?q=red+beard+and+brown+hair&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:MIE-Address&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=of6jVO6LOcrjoATD5IDQBA&ved=0CC4Q7Ak&biw=893&bih=495

MJost

rms2
01-01-2015, 02:35 PM
Just for grins, here is a photo of my youngest daughter as a baby, and a photo of my dad's older sister (now deceased), my Aunt Lois, both natural redheads.

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TŠltos
01-01-2015, 03:32 PM
Here's a list from 23andMe's blog (http://blog.23andme.com/news/snpwatch-researchers-find-link-between-red-hair-and-avoiding-the-dentist/) of some of the red hair variants. Check your Family Finder and 23andMe results for them.

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Note that rs1805008 (Arg160Tryp or Arg160Trp) is also called R160W.

rms2,
Using your list here, only my husband has CT at rs1805008. All the other ones he does not show the red hair variant. There was also one of them that could only be found for the V3 chip. All of my kits there are on V4 except my mom.

My husband has very dark brown to black hair, just like me. His father though was a red head, as was all of his father's siblings. They are an all Irish clan, well maybe an Englishman thrown in once and awhile. :) In my family my great grandfather who was German was a red head. One of his daughter's (sister of my maternal grandmother) was a red head as well. My hair looks red when the sunlight is on it, does that count, lol!

rms2
01-02-2015, 03:48 AM
I had those "red highlights", as well, in my otherwise dark head hair, and red in my moustache and beard (see the photo of me at 18 that I posted earlier in this thread).

So, your husband is an Arg160Trp carrier, as well, and is of mainly Irish ancestry. That just supports Arg160Trp's status as the chief red hair variant in Ireland.

Here's a fairly recent photo of my youngest daughter (autumn 2013). You can't really see them in this photo, but she has a lot of freckles across the bridge of her nose and her cheeks.

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rms2
01-02-2015, 01:13 PM
rms2,
Using your list here, only my husband has CT at rs1805008. . .

What is your husband's y haplogroup?

TŠltos
01-02-2015, 02:27 PM
What is your husband's y haplogroup?

I need to upgrade. I've been more focused on my brother's. He has not been interested so much, but our daughter may be in the future. At FTDNA he only has 12 marker and is R1b. 23andme lists him as R1b1b2a1a2f*. I have been wondering if SNP CTS4466 is a good choice to try. But I know I need him at 67 marker to get a better feel for it considering he is R1b.

TŠltos
01-03-2015, 05:12 AM
I had those "red highlights", as well, in my otherwise dark head hair, and red in my moustache and beard (see the photo of me at 18 that I posted earlier in this thread).

So, your husband is an Arg160Trp carrier, as well, and is of mainly Irish ancestry. That just supports Arg160Trp's status as the chief red hair variant in Ireland.

Here's a fairly recent photo of my youngest daughter (autumn 2013). You can't really see them in this photo, but she has a lot of freckles across the bridge of her nose and her cheeks.

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I missed this post earlier somehow, I was on my phone. I hate looking at the forum on that! That's cool about my husband's Arg160Trp carrier status. :) Your daughter is beautiful!

MJost
01-03-2015, 06:09 AM
I had those "red highlights", as well, in my otherwise dark head hair, and red in my moustache and beard (see the photo of me at 18 that I posted earlier in this thread).

So, your husband is an Arg160Trp carrier, as well, and is of mainly Irish ancestry. That just supports Arg160Trp's status as the chief red hair variant in Ireland.

Here's a fairly recent photo of my youngest daughter (autumn 2013). You can't really see them in this photo, but she has a lot of freckles across the bridge of her nose and her cheeks.

3312

Cute girl. Oh my...., you, Dad will you have your hands full with the guys when she gets older.... :behindsofa:

MJost

rms2
01-03-2015, 02:31 PM
These days she always has her nose stuck in her iPod, so who will see her face? ;)

Here are a couple more photos of her.

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rms2
01-06-2015, 02:26 PM
I put together a little table of the results from this thread thus far, showing the variant, the y haplogroup, and the place of origin (where known). I did not include duplicates from the same family.

Let me know if I made any errors.

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rms2
01-06-2015, 02:32 PM
I put together a little table of the results from this thread thus far, showing the variant, the y haplogroup, and the place of origin (where known). I did not include duplicates from the same family.

Let me know if I made any errors.

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I made a typo in that table (sorry), which I have corrected. Here is the updated table.

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Individuals whose entries are followed by a number in parentheses have more than one red hair variant. For example, there are six Czech entries but only 3 actual individuals from the Czech Republic, since all three of them have two different variants apiece.

rms2
01-15-2015, 12:44 PM
I was hoping for some more data on this subject.

I've thought about trying to start a red hair variant project through FTDNA, but Family Finder only includes one or two of the red hair variants. I know Arg160Trp is there, but I am not sure about any others. I could start an Arg160Trp project, but I'm not sure enough people know how to check their raw data for it.

Oh, well. It's a pet interest of mine. Not sure why exactly.

Petr
01-15-2015, 01:46 PM
From MC1R gene Family Finder contains:
rs3212346 89982358
rs1805005 Val60Leu V60L 89985844
rs1805006 Asp84Glu D84E 89985918
rs2228479 Val92Met V92M 89985940
rs1110400 Ile155Thr I155T 89986130
rs1805008 Arg160Trp R160W 89986144
rs885479 Arg163Gln R163Q 89986154
rs2228478 Thr314Thr T314T 89986608

Not sure which of them are related to red hair.

rms2
01-15-2015, 04:35 PM
From MC1R gene Family Finder contains:
rs3212346 89982358
rs1805005 Val60Leu V60L 89985844
rs1805006 Asp84Glu D84E 89985918
rs2228479 Val92Met V92M 89985940
rs1110400 Ile155Thr I155T 89986130
rs1805008 Arg160Trp R160W 89986144
rs885479 Arg163Gln R163Q 89986154
rs2228478 Thr314Thr T314T 89986608

Not sure which of them are related to red hair.

Excellent! Thanks!

That's not bad really. That includes all the red hair variants thus far talked about in this thread.

I think I will run those down a little and then try to start a red hair variants project through FTDNA.

Krefter
01-15-2015, 10:26 PM
I put together a little table of the results from this thread thus far, showing the variant, the y haplogroup, and the place of origin (where known). I did not include duplicates from the same family.

Let me know if I made any errors.

3331

I'm guessing I'm the P312 one. You can just put Northwest Europe, even though my P312 is from Spain, because I don't get it from my Latino side. I only have red haired ancestors on my Norwegian and British lines.

Krefter
01-15-2015, 10:37 PM
I hope some day someone tests red haired Asians and north Africans for the red hair variants found in Europe.

I would be very interested to see what this( he's dead or missing now, under Saddam's regime) Iraqi redhead's DNA results would be. He probably genetically is typical for Iraqis, and I'm guessing he has the same markers for red hair as European redheads.

http://www.20min.ch/diashow/61444/61444-PVmd9aTqFVKubQ1X08qN1Q.jpg

Is it random that this Kalash kid with red hair, has a father(I'm assuming) who has brown hair and light skin? Although Yamna had dark skin, their bronze age descendants who migrated into central Asia had markers for light pigmentation. I think it's possible red hair was somehow dispersed in the bronze age by Yamna descendants.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36876&d=1377735145

rms2
01-16-2015, 01:30 AM
I'm guessing I'm the P312 one. You can just put Northwest Europe, even though my P312 is from Spain, because I don't get it from my Latino side. I only have red haired ancestors on my Norwegian and British lines.

I'd rather go ahead and list Spain, if that is your place of origin for your y-dna line, because paternal line place of origin was what I was using for everyone else in the table. I used to ride the train with a guy from Spain who had red hair.

rms2
01-17-2015, 04:01 AM
I made a table of some of the known red hair variants on the MC1R gene. The first three are included in FTDNA's Family Finder results; the last two (indicated by an asterisk) are not. Probably all of them are included in BritainsDNA's Red Head Test. We know for sure the first three are.

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Sources:
SNPedia, "MC1R", http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/MC1R
NCBI Variation Glossary, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/variation/docs/glossary/

rms2
01-17-2015, 04:19 AM
I made a table of some of the known red hair variants on the MC1R gene. The first three are included in FTDNA's Family Finder results; the last two (indicated by an asterisk) are not. Probably all of them are included in BritainsDNA's Red Head Test. We know for sure the first three are.

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Sources:
SNPedia, "MC1R", http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/MC1R
NCBI Variation Glossary, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/variation/docs/glossary/

Does the 23andMe test include all of those red hair variants listed in the table above?

rms2
01-17-2015, 04:47 AM
I spiffed up that red hair variant table a bit. Here is the new and better version, along with the sources again.

3402

Sources:
SNPedia, "MC1R", http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/MC1R
NCBI Variation Glossary, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/variation/docs/glossary/

Krefter
01-17-2015, 05:34 AM
Does the 23andMe test include all of those red hair variants listed in the table above?

The only one missing in my raw data is rs1805009.

rms2
01-17-2015, 02:38 PM
I just applied with FTDNA this morning to create a red hair variants project. I don't know if they'll approve it or if anyone will even join it (besides me), but we'll see.

I would really like to see if there are any patterns (geographic, y-dna, mtDNA, surnames, etc.) connected to the different variants. I suspect that at the very least some variants are more common in certain areas than others.

Salkin
01-17-2015, 02:42 PM
Nice. If they approve it I'll certainly join, should be interesting.

rms2
01-17-2015, 02:43 PM
Nice. If they approve it I'll certainly join, should be interesting.

Thanks! At least there will be two of us there. B)

dp
01-17-2015, 05:12 PM
I only had one kit at 23andme. My black headed aunt has a derived allele of CT for rs1805008. For rs885479 and rs2228479 she was GG for both, and rs1805007 she was CC; so blah. Nonetheless, does the first mean that she had a slim chance of red hair. Her aunt had red hair so I'm curious.
What are the rs values for the FTDNA tests so I can see what my mom's, my uncle's and my "risks" were? :-)
dp

RE: FTDNA...
read the first post of the thread. Doh!

rms2
01-17-2015, 05:40 PM
I only had one kit at 23andme. My black headed aunt has a derived allele of CT for rs1805008. For rs885479 and rs2228479 she was GG for both, and rs1805007 she was CC; so blah. Nonetheless, does the first mean that she had a slim chance of red hair. Her aunt had red hair so I'm curious.
What are the rs values for the FTDNA tests so I can see what my mom's, my uncle's and my "risks" were? :-)
dp

Yes, like me, your aunt is a carrier of Arg160Trp. Her T at rs1805008 is what gives her that status. If she had TT instead of CT, she would probably actually have red hair.

Here's the red hair variants table again. The first three SNPs in it are the ones included in FTDNA's Family Finder test results.

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dp
01-17-2015, 05:44 PM
Dear Rich,
What a trip, we tested her, due to the black hair, because we thought she was the most NA looking of us. She ought to laugh, to find out she was half-way a red head :-)
dp :-)

rms2
01-19-2015, 12:16 PM
I just applied with FTDNA this morning to create a red hair variants project. I don't know if they'll approve it or if anyone will even join it (besides me), but we'll see.

I would really like to see if there are any patterns (geographic, y-dna, mtDNA, surnames, etc.) connected to the different variants. I suspect that at the very least some variants are more common in certain areas than others.

FTDNA is enjoying a long Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial holiday, so I have not heard anything from them yet. If this project does get approved, it will be open to anyone who carries at least one of the red hair variants.

dp
01-19-2015, 12:17 PM
FTDNA is enjoying a long Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial holiday, so I have not heard anything from them yet. If this project does get approved, it will be open to anyone who carries at least one of the red hair variants.

cool. only prob is my aunt's with 23andme. I'll have to check my mom's bp's. -dp

rms2
01-19-2015, 12:33 PM
cool. only prob is my aunt's with 23andme. I'll have to check my mom's bp's. -dp

Any FTDNA customer will be able to join, as long as he or she carries a red hair variant. Where knowledge of the red hair variant came from does not matter to me, as long as the person can show me or convince me of the result.

Jessie
01-19-2015, 01:46 PM
I have 4 family members tested (including myself) and for rs1805008 we are all CT. This was with 23andMe. Mother, brother and me are rs1805005 GT and my daughter is GG for that one but I think that is for blond hair. So we all carry the Arg160Tryp type. My brother and myself have done the Family Finder at FTDNA but I haven't downloaded those results. Mother, brother and myself are Irish born and my daughter is Australian but of full Irish ancestry on both sides.

My brother is M222.

rms2
01-19-2015, 02:33 PM
I have 4 family members tested (including myself) and for rs1805008 we are all CT. This was with 23andMe. Mother, brother and me are rs1805005 GT and my daughter is GG for that one but I think that is for blond hair. So we all carry the Arg160Tryp type. My brother and myself have done the Family Finder at FTDNA but I haven't downloaded those results. Mother, brother and myself are Irish born and my daughter is Australian but of full Irish ancestry on both sides.

My brother is M222.

I hope you will join the Red Hair Variants Project if and when FTDNA approves it.

Rick
01-24-2015, 04:45 PM
Here's a list from 23andMe's blog (http://blog.23andme.com/news/snpwatch-researchers-find-link-between-red-hair-and-avoiding-the-dentist/) of some of the red hair variants. Check your Family Finder and 23andMe results for them.

3284

Note that rs1805008 (Arg160Tryp or Arg160Trp) is also called R160W.

My FF file only has one of the SNPs on the list, rs1805008. I have CC, so not a carrier. I do have a fair amount of red in my beard, though my head hair was pure brown, almost black.

Petr
01-24-2015, 05:39 PM
My FF file contains also rs1805006 = Asp84Glu and rs1110400 = Ile155Thr.

rms2
01-24-2015, 09:14 PM
My FF file only has one of the SNPs on the list, rs1805008. I have CC, so not a carrier. I do have a fair amount of red in my beard, though my head hair was pure brown, almost black.

Family Finder includes rs885479 (Arg163Gln) and rs2228479 (Val92Met), as well. Did you check those? Maybe they were no calls?

rms2
01-24-2015, 09:21 PM
My FF file contains also rs1805006 = Asp84Glu and rs1110400 = Ile155Thr.

When I checked SNPedia, it said rs1805006 (Asp84Glu) is connected with pale skin and a higher risk of melanoma, but it didn't say anything about red hair, which is why I did not include it. Rs1110400 (Ile155Thr) is listed in their article "Redheads" but has no article of its own.

I see they are listed in the 23andMe blog article on red hair variants, so I will add them both to my red hair variant table.

Rick
01-24-2015, 09:28 PM
Family Finder includes rs885479 (Arg163Gln) and rs2228479 (Val92Met), as well. Did you check those? Maybe they were no calls?

GG on the first. What does that mean? 2nd one does not appear to be in my file.

rms2
01-24-2015, 09:37 PM
Here's my updated red hair variants table.

3586

rms2
01-24-2015, 09:39 PM
GG on the first. What does that mean? 2nd one does not appear to be in my file.

GG means you are not a carrier of Arg163Gln either, since A is the risk allele. Rs2228479 (Val92Met) should be there, too.

Rick
01-24-2015, 09:46 PM
GG means you are not a carrier of Arg163Gln either, since A is the risk allele. Rs2228479 (Val92Met) should be there, too.

Yeah, it's there, rs2228479 that is. Must've fat fingered it the first time. GG, so not a carrier on this one either.

rms2
01-25-2015, 12:54 AM
I still have not heard back from FTDNA on my application for a red hair variants project.

evon
01-25-2015, 11:07 AM
Here's a list from 23andMe's blog (http://blog.23andme.com/news/snpwatch-researchers-find-link-between-red-hair-and-avoiding-the-dentist/) of some of the red hair variants. Check your Family Finder and 23andMe results for them.

3284

Note that rs1805008 (Arg160Tryp or Arg160Trp) is also called R160W.

rs34474212 = TT
rs1805006 = CC
rs11547464 = GG
rs1110400 = TT
rs1805007 = CT
rs1805008 = CC (Interestingly my paternal side is CC on the above SNP, but CT on this)
i3002507 = GG

I have a copper red beard and red tints in my hair..No confirmed UK ancestry yet, but likely via several migrations starting with the Romani migrations in the 1500's, and also possibly Scottish/English/Irish settlement of Norway during the 17th century, but have not confirmed the latter..

rms2
01-25-2015, 01:41 PM
rs34474212 = TT
rs1805006 = CC
rs11547464 = GG
rs1110400 = TT
rs1805007 = CT
rs1805008 = CC (Interestingly my paternal side is CC on the above SNP, but CT on this)
i3002507 = GG

I have a copper red beard and red tints in my hair..No confirmed UK ancestry yet, but likely via several migrations starting with the Romani migrations in the 1500's, and also possibly Scottish/English/Irish settlement of Norway during the 17th century, but have not confirmed the latter..

So, you're a carrier of Arg151Cys (rs1805007).

I'm not clear about your Arg160Trp (rs1805008) status. Who has CT there? (T at Arg160Trp makes one a carrier.)

I hope you will join the red hair variants project if and when FTDNA ever approves it. I still have not heard from them on that.

rms2
01-25-2015, 01:43 PM
Yeah, it's there, rs2228479 that is. Must've fat fingered it the first time. GG, so not a carrier on this one either.

You could still be a carrier of rs1805009 (Asp294His) or rs1805007 (Arg151Cys) or both. They aren't included in Family Finder, and the latter is supposed to be one of the most common red hair variants.

rms2
01-25-2015, 02:19 PM
Okay, I have updated my red hair variants table yet again to include one I did not have before. I did not include rs34474212 before because I could not find much on it at SNPedia; however, I have since found some other good sources on SNPs, so now it's there, although I could not find the "Abc123Xyz"-style name for it. Maybe someone will happen on it and post it here. I'm pretty sure there is one; I just didn't see it.

It turns out that "i3002507" is just another name for rs1805009 (Asp294His), so that's not a new one.

3591

rms2
01-25-2015, 02:34 PM
Okay, I have updated my red hair variants table yet again to include one I did not have before. I did not include rs34474212 before because I could not find much on it at SNPedia; however, I have since found some other good sources on SNPs, so now it's there, although I could not find the "Abc123Xyz"-style name for it. Maybe someone will happen on it and post it here. I'm pretty sure there is one; I just didn't see it.

It turns out that "i3002507" is just another name for rs1805009 (Asp294His), so that's not a new one.

3591

Oops! I spoke too soon. I found the name for rs34474212 in the spreadsheet here (http://tinyurl.com/pos8wkt) (nice tool!). It's Ser83Pro.

3592

Petr
01-25-2015, 04:19 PM
It looks like the position for these two SNPs is not correct:
rs34474212 Ser83Pro S83P 89985913
rs1110400 Ile155Thr I155T 89986130

rms2
01-25-2015, 08:16 PM
It looks like the position for these two SNPs is not correct:
rs34474212 Ser83Pro S83P 89985913
rs1110400 Ile155Thr I155T 89986130

I got the position for rs34474212 (Ser83Pro) here (http://diseasome.kobic.re.kr/pageController.jsp?snp_id=rs34474212) and the position for rs1110400 (Ile155Thr) here (http://diseasome.kobic.re.kr/pageController.jsp?snp_id=rs1110400).

What is your source for the positions you have listed for them?

rms2
01-25-2015, 08:31 PM
Well, I admit to some confusion. You can see where I got those positions, but when you click on the RefSNP and then find your way to the Variation Viewer, you find the position on Chromosome 16 as you listed. Now I think I see that I misunderstood "Chromosome Position" and took that for "SNP Position". I'll fix it and update my table.

I was in a hurry this morning when I added the info to the table and missed the word "Chromosome" as opposed to "SNP".

Thanks!

rms2
01-25-2015, 08:36 PM
Here's the updated red hair variants table.

3593

Thanks, Petr!

evon
01-25-2015, 08:50 PM
So, you're a carrier of Arg151Cys (rs1805007).

I'm not clear about your Arg160Trp (rs1805008) status. Who has CT there? (T at Arg160Trp makes one a carrier.)

I hope you will join the red hair variants project if and when FTDNA ever approves it. I still have not heard from them on that.

My paternal aunt is CT on Arg160Trp, no confirmed UK ancestry there either..

Krefter
01-28-2015, 12:10 AM
rms2, I have both the alleles in SNP i3002507 associated with red hair. Do you know what the rs name for it is? I learned about the SNP here.

http://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/no-im-not-irish/

My father also has both alleles associated with red hair in i3002507, but has brown hair.

It would be interesting to see red hair percentages in west Eurasia, north Africa, and south-central Asia, because the author of that article makes me think red hair might be more popular in northeast Europe than most think.

rms2
01-28-2015, 01:01 AM
rms2, I have both the alleles in SNP i3002507 associated with red hair. Do you know what the rs name for it is? I learned about the SNP here.

http://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/no-im-not-irish/

My father also has both alleles associated with red hair in i3002507, but has brown hair.

It would be interesting to see red hair percentages in west Eurasia, north Africa, and south-central Asia, because the author of that article makes me think red hair might be more popular in northeast Europe than most think.

Good article. That is the first I have seen that attempts to connect some of the variants to particular regions.

The red hair variant i3002507 is the same thing as rs1805009 (Asp294His or D294H). Here is my red hair variants table again.

3617

I was surprised that, according to that article, the variant I carry, Arg160Trp (rs1805008 or R160W), is most common among 23andMe customers with ancestry in Sweden and Lithuania.

rms2
01-28-2015, 01:54 AM
Here is the abstract from the 1998 paper, Melanocortin 1 receptor variants in an Irish population (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9665397?dopt=Abstract).



Abstract

The identification of an association between variants in the human melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R) gene and red hair and fair skin, as well as the relation between variants of this gene and coat color in animals, suggests that the MC1R is an integral control point in the normal pigmentation phenotype. In order to further define the contribution of MC1R variants to pigmentation in a normal population, we have looked for alterations in this gene in series of individuals from a general Irish population, in whom there is a preponderance of individuals with fair skin type. Seventy-five per cent contained a variant in the MC1R gene, with 30% containing two variants. The Arg151Cys, Arg160Trp, and Asp294His variants were significantly associated with red hair (p = 0.0015, p < 0.001, and p < 0.005, respectively). Importantly, no individuals harboring two of these three variants did not have red hair, although some red-haired individuals only showed one alteration. The same three variants were also over-represented in individuals with light skin type as assessed using a modified Fitzpatrick scale. Despite these associations many subjects with dark hair/darker skin type harbored MC1R variants, but there was no evidence of any particular association of variants with the darker phenotype. The Asp294His variant was similarly associated with red hair in a Dutch population, but was infrequent in red-headed subjects from Sweden. The Asp294His variant was also significantly associated with nonmelanoma skin cancer in a U.K. population. The results show that the Arg151Cys, Arg160Trp, and Asp294His variants are of key significance in determining the pigmentary phenotype and response to ultraviolet radiation, and suggest that in many cases the red-haired component and in some cases fair skin type are inherited as a Mendelian recessive.

Krefter
01-29-2015, 01:24 AM
That Irish study is consistent for me because I have one Arg160Trp and two in Asp294His. I replugged in my hirisplex numbers, and now they predict I have red hair(99.9% chance). My father though who like I said has (dark)brown hair has both of the same red hair variants as I do and is predicted by hirisplex to have red hair(99.2% chance).

I know for sure my father got his allele in Arg151Cys from his British (English?)-Norwegian (a little German) mother and at least one allele in Asp294His, because she had red hair. Her 100% Norwegian mother had red hair, her brother had red hair, and her Norwegian immigrant grandfather had red hair.

For your sake I would trace both those variants in my father to the North sea region of Europe. My Norwegian-English-(mostly southwest)German mother is a redhead, and she might have the same alleles for red hair as my father, but we can’t confirm that without DNA.

I know of several ancestors/old relatives on my mom’s side with red hair, and all are in British lines. So, her red hair variants may also be of North sea origin. I guess tracing the origin of alleles isn’t that simple though, it could be both, I would have to test all my recent ancestors to know for sure.

Krefter
01-29-2015, 01:30 AM
I asked Davidski at Eurogenes to test the ancient Celts and Anglo-Saxons from Hinxton for all the red hair variants you have listed. We'll see If any of them did.

I know one of the Celts lacked a red hair variant in rs1805008(because I asked Davidski earlier), and I don’t any of the other samples got calls in those SNPs.

Krefter
01-29-2015, 01:47 AM
Hold up. I have GG in i3002507, and assumed the two alleles for that SNP were G and A/T, meaning GG is the same thing as CC. But according to that 23andme article I posted C is the allele in that SNP associated with red hair, meaning I don’t have a red hair variant in that SNP. I checked through all the SNPs in your list and the only one I have is one allele in rs1805008.So, that Irish study isn’t consistent with me. My father has basically the same alleles as me, but a different hair color. So, the science of hair color is not exact yet, just very accurate.

rms2
01-29-2015, 01:47 AM
I get the feeling the red hair variants may be an old European hunter-gatherer trait that arose where, as Kasia Bryc mentioned in that article you posted, gray skies did not make pale skin a real liability.

Krefter
01-29-2015, 02:21 AM
I get the feeling the red hair variants may be an old European hunter-gatherer trait that arose where, as Kasia Bryc mentioned in that article you posted, gray skies did not make pale skin a real liability.

That’s an interesting idea, remember K-14 had one of the variants (might not mean anything though). Maybe Davidski will find another HG had a red hair variant.My opinion is that red hair exists at a notable frequency in Europe today (not all of it), as a result of recent selection, because of how much it varies in frequencies among very closely related populations (Udmurt and Sami for example, huge difference).

If red hair is most popular in northeast and northwest Europe(Like that 23andme article suggests) that’s an interesting trend, when considering all other forms of light color are most popular there. Ancient DNA tells us north Euro’s ancestors suddenly became very pale 6,000-4,000YBP.

If the sky being dark is why north Euros are so much paler than their ancestors and close relatives today, then why wasn’t Loschbour light? Something specific to the bronze age-Neolithic might have caused depigmentation, including a rise in red hair.

We have to remember the oldest known people to have north Euro-type pigmentation are bronze age Indo Euro speakers from central-north Asia, who are like cousins on north Euro’s father’s side(Yamna, Y DNA R1). They had light skin, along with high amount of blonde hair, and even occasionally appearance of red hair. This makes me think the bronze age-Neolithic depigmentation event, might have included red hair.

rms2
01-29-2015, 08:44 AM
I did not say north Euros are light skinned because the sky is dark. I said gray skies make pale skin no great liability. There is a difference. The nearer the Equator one is, the more the environment punishes pale skin and makes it a genuine liability. The farther from the Equator one is, the less of a liability pale skin becomes. That doesn't mean gray skies caused pale skin. It means people with pale skin were not at a disadvantage where the skies are gray and were more likely to survive long enough to pass the trait on to offspring.

Jessie
01-29-2015, 10:37 AM
Good article. That is the first I have seen that attempts to connect some of the variants to particular regions.

The red hair variant i3002507 is the same thing as rs1805009 (Asp294His or D294H). Here is my red hair variants table again.

3617

I was surprised that, according to that article, the variant I carry, Arg160Trp (rs1805008 or R160W), is most common among 23andMe customers with ancestry in Sweden and Lithuania.

That's a bit odd because 4 members of my family tested have this one and we are all of only known Irish ancestry. It's a bit of a coincidence that the four of us would carry the one not prevalent in Ireland but more prevalent in Sweden and Lithuania? I'm a bit dubious about this claim but who knows. I've removed our names for privacy reasons.

http://i58.tinypic.com/fkr4lk.png

alan
01-29-2015, 11:41 AM
It does seem to me that the main reason for the high amount of MCR1 variant linked with red hair is likely to be not the hair colour but the almost invariably super-pale skin redheads have in northern Europe. Half the population of Ireland and Scotland for instance seem to carry this but only around 10 percent have the red hair. Redheads just seem to be a case of a double copy of a gene that a single copy is enough to lighten the skin. I presume the brunette haired people with very pale skin so common in Ireland are single copy carriers. Many pale skinned brunettes of course sprout gingery beards. I have quiT shaving for a few weeks and although I have mid brown hair my beard is mousy-gingery. Even a short sunny period turns my brown eyebrows gingery too.

alan
01-29-2015, 11:51 AM
Got to say having traveled through Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, I noticed redheads were as rare as hens teeth and I only saw some in the extreme south and north of that range - the southern Polish Carpathians and north Estonia but practically none in between. Freckly skin, so common among the Celtic fringe even in brunettes, is also very noticeable by its absence in that Baltic area. I expect this would be confirmed by a map of the redhead genes. The place I have seen most redheads in European mainland would be the Low Countries and to some extent Danes and Norwegians. It seems extremely rare elsewhere and I have never seen red hair as common as in the isles anywhere - only Holland seems to approach this IMO. To me it seems like a very ancient North Sea/north Atlantic coastal fringe thing.

alan
01-29-2015, 12:13 PM
What sort of red hair marker does that weird outlier of high red hair in the Urals carry - think they are a Uralic group but I forget their name. Is it the western or Swedish kind of red hair genes they carry

rms2
01-29-2015, 12:44 PM
That's a bit odd because 4 members of my family tested have this one and we are all of only known Irish ancestry. It's a bit of a coincidence that the four of us would carry the one not prevalent in Ireland but more prevalent in Sweden and Lithuania? I'm a bit dubious about this claim but who knows. I've removed our names for privacy reasons.

http://i58.tinypic.com/fkr4lk.png

I get that impression, too, since it seems to me all the folks with Irish ancestry I have talked to who carry a red hair variant carry Arg160Trp. But, hey, Kasia Bryc says those are the 23andMe stats. Hard to argue with that.

rms2
01-29-2015, 12:50 PM
What sort of red hair marker does that weird outlier of high red hair in the Urals carry - think they are a Uralic group but I forget their name. Is it the western or Swedish kind of red hair genes they carry

Based on the frequency maps supplied by Kasia Bryc in that 23andMeBlog article posted earlier by Krefter, it seems the Udmurts are likeliest to carry either R151C (Arg151Cys) or R160W (Arg160Trp). The latter is the variant I carry and the same one Ms. Bryc says accounts for her own red hair.

3625

http://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/no-im-not-irish/

MitchellSince1893
01-29-2015, 02:01 PM
I didn't read through this whole thread so I may be repeating old news.

Just saw where 23andme added a new Red Hair section under traits. It explains exactly how I ended up with auburn/red hair as a child.

Father had rs1805008 R160W C to T CT
Mother had rs1805007 R151C C to T CT

While only 5% of people with one of the above mutations have red hair, more than 70% of children with two have red hair. I inherited both of the above.

So based on red hair variants frequency map http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3625&d=1422535817 my mom's red hair gene most likely comes from her Ulster Scot ancestors while my dad's may be from a Scandinavian or German ancestor.

J Man
01-29-2015, 05:03 PM
That’s an interesting idea, remember K-14 had one of the variants (might not mean anything though). Maybe Davidski will find another HG had a red hair variant.My opinion is that red hair exists at a notable frequency in Europe today (not all of it), as a result of recent selection, because of how much it varies in frequencies among very closely related populations (Udmurt and Sami for example, huge difference).

If red hair is most popular in northeast and northwest Europe(Like that 23andme article suggests) that’s an interesting trend, when considering all other forms of light color are most popular there. Ancient DNA tells us north Euro’s ancestors suddenly became very pale 6,000-4,000YBP.

If the sky being dark is why north Euros are so much paler than their ancestors and close relatives today, then why wasn’t Loschbour light? Something specific to the bronze age-Neolithic might have caused depigmentation, including a rise in red hair.

We have to remember the oldest known people to have north Euro-type pigmentation are bronze age Indo Euro speakers from central-north Asia, who are like cousins on north Euro’s father’s side(Yamna, Y DNA R1). They had light skin, along with high amount of blonde hair, and even occasionally appearance of red hair. This makes me think the bronze age-Neolithic depigmentation event, might have included red hair.

This is off topic but do you think that both R1a and R1b are connected to the ANE autosomal component as they both come from R1-M173?

Krefter
01-29-2015, 09:35 PM
I didn't read through this whole thread so I may be repeating old news.

Just saw where 23andme added a new Red Hair section under traits. It explains exactly how I ended up with auburn/red hair as a child.

Father had rs1805008 R160W C to T CT
Mother had rs1805007 R151C C to T CT

While only 5% of people with one of the above mutations have red hair, more than 70% of children with two have red hair. I inherited both of the above.

So based on red hair variants frequency map http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3625&d=1422535817 my mom's red hair gene most likely comes from her Ulster Scot ancestors while my dad's may be from a Scandinavian or German ancestor.

I'm one of those 5% redheads, with just one derived allele in rs1805008. It is interesting how in different regions red hair tends to be caused by different SNPs. Eye color is the same way. KurdishDNA blog figured that out, and was able to make a eye color-human tree based on haplotypes.

Krefter
01-29-2015, 09:41 PM
Got to say having traveled through Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, I noticed redheads were as rare as hens teeth and I only saw some in the extreme south and north of that range - the southern Polish Carpathians and north Estonia but practically none in between. Freckly skin, so common among the Celtic fringe even in brunettes, is also very noticeable by its absence in that Baltic area. I expect this would be confirmed by a map of the redhead genes. The place I have seen most redheads in European mainland would be the Low Countries and to some extent Danes and Norwegians. It seems extremely rare elsewhere and I have never seen red hair as common as in the isles anywhere - only Holland seems to approach this IMO. To me it seems like a very ancient North Sea/north Atlantic coastal fringe thing.

The north sea thing is an interesting idea. Whatever the origins of modern frequencies of red hair, I'm sure they are very complicated. Red hair frequencies can go up and down due to drift in small pops.

In my family for example red hair is the most popular hair color(including 1st cousins, grandparents, aunts, uncles), out of close to 30 people, several of the men with non-red hair grow red facial hair, and everyone is defiantly a carrier, even in-laws. If we lived in a pop of a few 100 people who had 3% red hair, and we were the noble class, red hair could rise to something like 10% or more in a few generations. 2,000 years later if that pop grew to millions red hair would stay at 10%.

We probably can't learn anything about the origins of red hair with ancient DNA, unless we get sample sets of several hundred.

alan
01-29-2015, 09:58 PM
This is off topic but do you think that both R1a and R1b are connected to the ANE autosomal component as they both come from R1-M173?

I think that is pretty well a certainty and I would add Q and probably N to them too.

Krefter
01-30-2015, 03:35 AM
There's a Pashtun on this forum who says he is a natural red hair.

I asked him if he has any of the red hair variants listed by rms2. It will be interesting to see if he has any, and which ones. Red hair might be as popular in western-central Asia and north Africa as it is in eastern(xUral Russia, Baltic) and southern Europe. Making above 1% red hair not European-specific, but west European(or more north sea)-specific.

The red hair in the pashtun guy has probably been separated in a sense by red hair in west Europe, since at least the bronze age and probably further back. The red hair variant found in ~38,000YBP K-14, might mean red hair existed in earlier members of the ANE-WHG. It is pretty much exclusive today to people who have K-14 related ancestry. Maybe it exists in Africa and eastern Asia, I don't know.

Adrian Stevenson
01-30-2015, 11:45 AM
My results show that I carry no red hair genes.

Cheers, Ade.

DMXX
01-30-2015, 04:24 PM
There's a Pashtun on this forum who says he is a natural red hair.

I asked him if he has any of the red hair variants listed by rms2. It will be interesting to see if he has any, and which ones. Red hair might be as popular in western-central Asia and north Africa as it is in eastern(xUral Russia, Baltic) and southern Europe. Making above 1% red hair not European-specific, but west European(or more north sea)-specific.

The red hair in the pashtun guy has probably been separated in a sense by red hair in west Europe, since at least the bronze age and probably further back. The red hair variant found in ~38,000YBP K-14, might mean red hair existed in earlier members of the ANE-WHG. It is pretty much exclusive today to people who have K-14 related ancestry. Maybe it exists in Africa and eastern Asia, I don't know.

Different MC1R-derived SNPs have different variation patterns. Believe it or not, not all of them are fixed in Europe frequency-wise:



rs1805007(T) - Low frequency in Europe, smaller still in S-C Asia, absent everywhere else
Y152OCH(A) - Absent everywhere
rs111400(C) - Low frequency in Europe, absent everywhere else
rs1805009(C) - Low frequency in Europe, absent everywhere else (except the Uyghurs intriguingly)
rs2228479(A) - Peak in SE Asia (high frequency throughout E Asia), significant presence in S-C Asia and Europe, absent in Near-East


I base the above on Walsh's DNA Phenotyping: The prediction of human pigmentation traits from genetic data (Supplementary Figure S4). You seem to like pigmentation related discussions as well. I recommend you check it out.

Based on this, I suspect only rs1805007 and rs1805009 would be partially* linked to the Indo-Europeans given the distribution pattern. rs111400 appears thoroughly European rather than Eurasian.

rs2228479 is an interesting one. Particularly in this context. Note that its' frequency is slightly greater than both rs1805007 and rs1805009 combined in South-Central Asia. It is also very prevalent across East Asia. That would suggest to me, by virtue of frequency alone**, half-to-most of the red hair colouring one observes in South-Central Asia actually has nothing to do with any Indo-Europeans or other prehistoric Eurasians.

zahra (female name by the way) hasn't posted here yet, but I'd also be interested to see which of those SNPs she has derived mutations for. Based on the frequencies in South-Central Asia, I'd bet on a combination of rs2228479 with rs1805007 or rs1805009.

*we already know prehistoric hunter-gatherers carried light pigmentation thousands of years before PIE developed, since Mal'ta boy apparently had light eyes, so we cannot conclude exclusivity to IE's, given ANE is a dominant component in S-C Asia and the Indian Subcontinent. Could well have been introduced to the region several times earlier.

** allele penetrance is a major factor here; frequency alone might not matter! One of two opposing arguments can be furthered with equal conceptual consideration until this is known. The first being that, the Eurasian MC1R mutations are partially IE linked (see above) and have greater penetrance, so the red hair phenotypes one observes in South-Central Asia can be attributed to them. The other is that, in SE Asia, one doesn't see anywhere as much reddish hair as the phenotype frequency chart indicates because of other stronger mutations exerting opposing effects, thus masking the reddening effect of rs2228479. From a neutral perspective, both are equally valid.

[Edit]: Just included the risk variant in brackets next to the SNPs above. And as usual, I don't carry any. This genotype-phenotype mismatch is getting frustrating!

rms2
01-30-2015, 04:33 PM
My results show that I carry no red hair genes.

Cheers, Ade.

I was amazed to see that BritainsDNA tests for 34 red hair variants. I did not know there were that many of them. When you are a carrier, like me, you just get notice of the ones you carry. They don't tell you they tested you for 34 of them. Wow!

surbakhunWeesste
01-30-2015, 05:26 PM
Different MC1R-derived SNPs have different variation patterns. Believe it or not, not all of them are fixed in Europe frequency-wise:



rs1805007(T) - Low frequency in Europe, smaller still in S-C Asia, absent everywhere else
Y152OCH(A) - Absent everywhere
rs111400(C) - Low frequency in Europe, absent everywhere else
rs1805009(C) - Low frequency in Europe, absent everywhere else (except the Uyghurs intriguingly)
rs2228479(A) - Peak in SE Asia (high frequency throughout E Asia), significant presence in S-C Asia and Europe, absent in Near-East


zahra (female name by the way) hasn't posted here yet, but I'd also be interested to see which of those SNPs she has derived mutations for. Based on the frequencies in South-Central Asia, I'd bet on a combination of rs2228479 with rs1805007 or rs1805009.

[Edit]: Just included the risk variant in brackets next to the SNPs above. And as usual, I don't carry any. This genotype-phenotype mismatch is getting frustrating!

rs1805008 CC
rs885479 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs1805006 CC
rs1110400 CT
rs1805009* GG
rs1805007* CC
rs34474212* NOT FOUND
I have <1% chance of red hair according to 23 & me.

rms2
01-30-2015, 05:26 PM
I still have not heard back from FTDNA regarding my request to start a red hair variants project. I first applied for it on 17 January. I emailed them again a couple of days ago to bug them about it.

They can turn me down if they want, although I would prefer to get the go-ahead. I would just like to get some kind of response.

rms2
01-30-2015, 05:32 PM
rs1805008 CC
rs885479 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs1805006 CC
rs1110400 CT
rs1805009* GG
rs1805007* CC
rs34474212* NOT FOUND
I have <1% chance of red hair according to 23 & me.

Yet you carry a couple of the variants. Do you have red hair?

DMXX
01-30-2015, 05:36 PM
rs1805008 CC
rs885479 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs1805006 CC
rs1110400 CT
rs1805009* GG
rs1805007* CC
rs34474212* NOT FOUND
I have <1% chance of red hair according to 23 & me.

Well, there you have it; you are heterozygous on two of the SNPs that code for red hair. One is fixed in Europe (rs111400) and the other is found across East Eurasia with secondary peaks in South-Central Asia and Europe (rs2228479). I did predict you'd have a mutation on rs2228479 and at least one other SNP, just wasn't rs111400. Quite interesting you have that. Makes you atypical for a Pashtun (please refer to an earlier long post of mine here mentioning what is typical for S-C Asia).

Don't pay much attention to the genotype-phenotype disparity on some of 23andMe's reports. I'm supposedly short (actually 5'11.5") and lactose intolerant (consume a lot of dairy). Our understanding of complex traits is rudimentary at the moment. At present, we know height is ~90% hereditary, but our current models and SNPs only seem to account for around 16-20%.

The sort of genetics witchcraft we here at Anthrogenica can conjure via new studies trumps those rather basic/dated assignments. B)

rms2
01-30-2015, 05:43 PM
I had an Armenian friend some years ago who had blazing red hair and a huge, bushy, red moustache. He would have made a great Caucasus mountain bandit. Too bad I lost contact with him. I would like to know what variant or variants he carries.

(I've got a brother-in-law who is Armenian, but he looks like Stalin, only taller.)

surbakhunWeesste
01-30-2015, 05:49 PM
Yet you carry a couple of the variants. Do you have red hair?

Yes, I do.

rms2
01-30-2015, 05:52 PM
Yes, I do.

Very cool.

If you are also an FTDNA customer, I hope you will join the red hair variants project, if and when FTDNA ever approves it.

surbakhunWeesste
01-30-2015, 05:57 PM
Very cool.

If you are also an FTDNA customer, I hope you will join the red hair variants project, if and when FTDNA ever approves it.
I got tested with 23 & me :)

rms2
01-30-2015, 06:00 PM
I got tested with 23 & me :)

You could always transfer your 23andMe results over to FTDNA. :biggrin1:

surbakhunWeesste
01-30-2015, 06:04 PM
You could always transfer your 23andMe results over to FTDNA. :biggrin1:

Unfortunately, mine is on V4 chip.

Krefter
01-30-2015, 09:33 PM
rs1805008 CC
rs885479 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs1805006 CC
rs1110400 CT
rs1805009* GG
rs1805007* CC
rs34474212* NOT FOUND
I have <1% chance of red hair according to 23 & me.

Very interesting thanks for sharing. It seems your red hair is caused by SNPs, most European red hair is not. I wonder if red hair evolved independently several times.

ADW_1981
01-30-2015, 09:52 PM
Interesting, I wonder what populations carry the mutation on rs1110400 in Europe. I'm ancestral for this one.

Krefter
01-30-2015, 09:59 PM
Interesting, I wonder what populations carry the mutation on rs1110400 in Europe. I'm ancestral for this one.

Which one do you have rs1805008 T?

DMXX
01-30-2015, 10:03 PM
Interesting, I wonder what populations carry the mutation on rs1110400 in Europe. I'm ancestral for this one.

I'll just post the map I referred to here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3631-Britain-s-DNA-Red-Head-Test-Results-Post-Them-Here-Please&p=66754&viewfull=1#post66754). Please see it below folks. As mentioned, all maps (bar the third down-right) depict genotype frequency of specific MC1R-derived loci. Note the images are unedited (aspect ratio is distorted in originals).

The SNP you're interested in (rs1110400) seems to peak in the Basque and Orcadians, then Northern Russians. HGDP populations are used in all these charts, as some of you may recognise. This is why I described zahra's heterozygous status on this as atypical (completely absent in South-Central Asia and Uyghurs). Looks like it's about as "indigenous European" as an MC1R mutation could get based on frequency.

[Edit]: Just saw Supp figure 3. That also includes MC1R loci frequency plots. Will update this post depicting the frequency pattern shortly. These maps would be worth including in your future project, rms2. I'll continue this area of discussion in another thread to return focus. Hope everyone found these useful either way.



rs1805007(T) - Europe > South-Central Asia; absent elsewhere
Y152OCH(A) - Absent everywhere
rs111400(C) - Europe; absent elsewhere
rs1805009(C) - Europe > East-Central Asia (Uyghurs); absent elsewhere
rs2228479(A) - SE Asia > E Asia > Europe & South-Central Asia, absent elsewhere
N29insA(A) - Europe (Orcadian only); absent elsewhere
rs885479(T) - Americas + E Asia > South-Central Asia > Europe; absent elsewhere
rs1805005(T) - Europe > Near-East > South-Central Asia > East-Central Asia + South Africa
rs11547464(A) - Europe (Italy and North Russian only); absent elsewhere
rs1805008(T) - Europe > East-Central Asia (Uyghur) > Near-East > South-Central Asia; absent elsewhere
rs1805006(A) - Absent everywhere



36593660

Krefter
01-30-2015, 10:05 PM
rms2, is there a way for people with 23andme V4 chips to join the FTDNA red hair project? If not maybe you can put us in your personal database.

parasar
01-30-2015, 10:43 PM
rs2228479 is an interesting one. Particularly in this context. Note that its' frequency is slightly greater than both rs1805007 and rs1805009 combined in South-Central Asia. It is also very prevalent across East Asia. That would suggest to me, by virtue of frequency alone**, half-to-most of the red hair colouring one observes in South-Central Asia actually has nothing to do with any Indo-Europeans or other prehistoric Eurasians.

zahra (female name by the way) hasn't posted here yet, but I'd also be interested to see which of those SNPs she has derived mutations for. Based on the frequencies in South-Central Asia, I'd bet on a combination of rs2228479 with rs1805007 or rs1805009.

*we already know prehistoric hunter-gatherers carried light pigmentation thousands of years before PIE developed, since Mal'ta boy apparently had light eyes, so we cannot conclude exclusivity to IE's, given ANE is a dominant component in S-C Asia and the Indian Subcontinent. Could well have been introduced to the region several times earlier.

** allele penetrance is a major factor here; frequency alone might not matter! One of two opposing arguments can be furthered with equal conceptual consideration until this is known. The first being that, the Eurasian MC1R mutations are partially IE linked (see above) and have greater penetrance, so the red hair phenotypes one observes in South-Central Asia can be attributed to them. The other is that, in SE Asia, one doesn't see anywhere as much reddish hair as the phenotype frequency chart indicates because of other stronger mutations exerting opposing effects, thus masking the reddening effect of rs2228479. From a neutral perspective, both are equally valid.

[Edit]: Just included the risk variant in brackets next to the SNPs above. And as usual, I don't carry any. This genotype-phenotype mismatch is getting frustrating!

"MA-1 individual was predicted as having relatively dark pigmentation for hair, skin and eyes - Non-blue eyes (4/4) ... brown or black eyes (2/2) "
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/extref/nature12736-s1.pdf

Anzick-1 on the other hand could have had light eyes.

ADW_1981
01-31-2015, 12:24 AM
Which one do you have rs1805008 T?

I have a single copy of 2 mutations testable at 23andMe.

rs1805007 CT "berserker" mutation ;)
rs1805008 CT "Irish"

I'm assuming this one is nothing
i3002507 GG

Funny how the most common one isn't tested at all at 23andMe. rs1805009

surbakhunWeesste
01-31-2015, 01:02 AM
The SNP you're interested in (rs1110400) seems to peak in the Basque and Orcadians, then Northern Russians. HGDP populations are used in all these charts, as some of you may recognise. This is why I described zahra's heterozygous status on this as atypical (completely absent in South-Central Asia and Uyghurs). Looks like it's about as "indigenous European" as an MC1R mutation could get based on frequency.


36593660

Well! the HGDP didn't test Afghans or other South-Central Asians tho'
My maternal grandmother, her two sisters and one brother are red heads. My paternal grandmother had burgundy red hair. I have red head cousins as well ofc. Based on my personal experience: my ancestral hometown of Kandahar had fair # of redheads. I 've been to parts of Pakistan with higher Pashtun population as well, there I didn't see much red heads. It would be wonderful to see data from Afghanistan esp. Southern Afghanistan. If my grandmother says yes to genetic testing, I will share her result.

Krefter
01-31-2015, 01:18 AM
Zahra would you describe you and your family's red hair as something like this. Google says the kid is from south-west Asia, but who knows, it's the internet.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/122/1/a/Afghan_Redhead_and_boy_by_xerquina.jpg

slievenamon
01-31-2015, 01:21 AM
rs1110400 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs885479 GG
rs1805005 GG
rs1805008 CC
rs1805006 CC
rs3212346 AG

DMXX
01-31-2015, 01:24 AM
Well! the HGDP didn't test Afghans or other South-Central Asians tho'


No Afghans, but Pakistani Pashtuns, Burusho and the Kalash are often considered as South-Central Asians.



My maternal grandmother, her two sisters and one brother are red heads. My paternal grandmother had burgundy red hair. I have red head cousins as well ofc. Based on my personal experience: my ancestral hometown Kandahar had fair # of redheads. I 've been to parts of Pakistan with higher Pashtun population as well, there I didn't see much red heads. It would be wonderful to see data from Afghanistan esp. Southern Afghanistan. If my grandmother say's yes to genetic testing, I will share her result.

Sure. I've never travelled through Afghanistan and have no personal anecdotes. The people I've spoken to (both online and in real life) who have travelled through either eastern Afghanistan or north Pakistan (Chitral and thereabouts) have all told me the Internet depiction of folks from these areas is a partial distortion of the reality (majority are dark haired, dark eyed with either medium or fair skin). I don't know how much time you've spent on anthropology forums, but pictures like the one Krefter shared give viewers a distorted view.

I fully believe your account, as I have similar experience with the mountainous parts of Iran (one village in West Azerbaijan province I passed through as a child seemed to be practically half red-headed), but it's unlikely in my opinion we'll observe a marked difference in genotype between a well-sampled general Afghan Pakhtun cohort versus Pakistani Pakhtuns. The South-Central Asians from Pakistan, despite differing histories, have similar MC1R derived frequencies, with any observed differences between them likely to arise from some form of genetic drift. I expect Afghans from Kandahar and its' surrounds probably won't be different enough to deviate from the South-Central Asian norm established by the HGDP populations.

You're inevitably right we need the actual data to reveal where the truth lies relative to speculation. If someone can get me access to the Afghan auDNA dataset, I wouldn't mind rummaging through the genotypes this weekend to see their MC1R alleles. I can also "update" those pie charts to include the Afghan results.

Which parts of Pakistan with a Pakhtun population have you been to? Sein has extensive knowledge on this topic and previously described certain aspects of the Pashtun identity in Pakistan which does make a one-to-one comparison inappropriate depending on where you were. This part of the conversation's best shifted to PM's.

surbakhunWeesste
01-31-2015, 01:28 AM
Zahra would you describe you and your family's red hair as something like this. Google says the kid is from south-west Asia, but who knows, it's the internet.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/122/1/a/Afghan_Redhead_and_boy_by_xerquina.jpg

The red heads in my family range from those you posted above to dark burgundy. Also, my mother has darkest brown hair and my father has light brown hair.

Krefter
01-31-2015, 01:33 AM
DMXX, I know the pictures of south-central Asians(and many other people) online are cherry-picked and fueled by raciest, and I don't fall for their nonsense. I was using a redheaded one as a reference for her to describe her hair.

Krefter
01-31-2015, 01:35 AM
The red heads in my family range from those you posted above to dark burgundy. Also, my mother has darkest brown hair and my father has light brown hair.

Does red hair have the same albino-skin affect in Afghanistan? I tend to think red hair there is unrelated to red hair in Europe. Some albinos have red hair, but it's unrelated.

DMXX
01-31-2015, 01:37 AM
DMXX, I know the pictures of south-central Asians(and many other people) online are cherry-picked and fueled by raciest, and I don't fall for their nonsense. I was using a redheaded one as a reference for her to describe her hair.

Please point out to me where I stated you fall for what cherry-picking racists post online:



I don't know how much time you've spent on anthropology forums, but pictures like the one Krefter shared give viewers a distorted view.


Do you agree the subject of this statement is entirely on the picture and not you? I have no reason to make underhanded insinuations like what seems to be implied here.

surbakhunWeesste
01-31-2015, 01:46 AM
No Afghans, but Pakistani Pashtuns, Burusho and the Kalash are often considered as South-Central Asians.



Sure. I've never travelled through Afghanistan and have no personal anecdotes. The people I've spoken to (both online and in real life) who have travelled through either eastern Afghanistan or north Pakistan (Chitral and thereabouts) have all told me the Internet depiction of folks from these areas is a partial distortion of the reality (majority are dark haired, dark eyed with either medium or fair skin). I don't know how much time you've spent on anthropology forums, but pictures like the one Krefter shared give viewers a distorted view.

I fully believe your account, as I have similar experience with the mountainous parts of Iran (one village in West Azerbaijan province I passed through as a child seemed to be practically half red-headed), but it's unlikely in my opinion we'll observe a marked difference in genotype between a well-sampled general Afghan Pakhtun cohort versus Pakistani Pakhtuns. The South-Central Asians from Pakistan, despite differing histories, have similar MC1R derived frequencies, with any observed differences between them likely to arise from some form of genetic drift. I expect Afghans from Kandahar and its' surrounds probably won't be different enough to deviate from the South-Central Asian norm established by the HGDP populations.

You're inevitably right we need the actual data to reveal where the truth lies relative to speculation. If someone can get me access to the Afghan auDNA dataset, I wouldn't mind rummaging through the genotypes this weekend to see their MC1R alleles. I can also "update" those pie charts to include the Afghan results.

Which parts of Pakistan with a Pakhtun population have you been to? Sein has extensive knowledge on this topic and previously described certain aspects of the Pashtun identity in Pakistan which does make a one-to-one comparison inappropriate depending on where you were. This part of the conversation's best shifted to PM's.

Well! until we get the samples from Afghanistan, all we can do is speculate. Mutation can occur anywhere and ofc genetic variation can be continued. I am not sure about the MC1R frequencies on the Afghan sample honestly because we don't have enough sample to analyze. Just because my family tests positive for the variation doesn't mean population from Kandahar carries the variant ofc. People seem to have red beard and red hair strands without the presence of the allocated SNPs too, pretty interesting!

Swat, Baluchistan:Quetta, parts of FATA and area with recent Afghan refugee population like Karachi.

surbakhunWeesste
01-31-2015, 01:48 AM
Does red hair have the same albino-skin affect in Afghanistan? I tend to think red hair there is unrelated to red hair in Europe. Some albinos have red hair, but it's unrelated.

Thankfully, I have no albinos in my family and sorry I am not knowledgeable on the red hair albino-skin effect.

Krefter
01-31-2015, 02:03 AM
Thankfully, I have no albinos in my family and sorry I am not knowledgeable on the red hair albino-skin effect.

I just meant so pale it seems Albino.

slievenamon
01-31-2015, 03:45 AM
CORRECTION

rs1110400 TT
rs2228479 AG
rs885479 GG
rs1805005 GG
rs1805008 CC
rs1805006 CC
rs3212346 AG

Adrian Stevenson
01-31-2015, 11:09 AM
I am posting my wife's results with her permission.

The kids have not got red hair, nor have the Granddkids. But her Nephew (Sister's Son) does have a reddish tint to his hair and beard.

Cheers, Ade.

rms2
01-31-2015, 01:42 PM
rs1110400 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs885479 GG
rs1805005 GG
rs1805008 CC
rs1805006 CC
rs3212346 AG

The one in bold is a new one on me. But here is what I found on it:



RESULTS:

We found that the rs3212345:C>T is associated with light skin, red hair, and poor tanning ability, while the rs3212346:G>A is associated with dark skin, black hair, and strong tanning ability.


Polymorphisms upstream of the melanocortin-1 receptor coding region are associated with human pigmentation variation in a Brazilian population. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22961816?dopt=Abstract)

So I'll have to add rs3212345:C>T to my red hair variants table.

rms2
01-31-2015, 02:19 PM
I have not been able to find one of those alpha-numeric names, like Arg160Trp, for rs3212345 yet. If anyone knows of a good source for those, please let me know.

rms2
01-31-2015, 02:25 PM
The 1000 Genomes Project browser appears to be a good source of info on the red hair variants. I especially like the little pie charts for the various populations under "Population genetics".

Here's the page for rs1805008 (Arg160Trp): rs1805008 SNP (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985644-89986644;v=rs1805008;vdb=variation;vf=1367028)

Interesting that Arg160Trp appears to be limited to Europe and at a frequency of just 6% (carriers of the risk allele T, not frequency of redheads).

rms2
01-31-2015, 02:34 PM
rms2, is there a way for people with 23andme V4 chips to join the FTDNA red hair project? If not maybe you can put us in your personal database.

I don't, but I can email them with that question. Lately, however, FTDNA hasn't exactly been Johnny-on-the-spot with responses to my email queries.

rms2
01-31-2015, 02:42 PM
The 1000 Genomes Project browser appears to be a good source of info on the red hair variants. I especially like the little pie charts for the various populations under "Population genetics".

Here's the page for rs1805008 (Arg160Trp): rs1805008 SNP (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985644-89986644;v=rs1805008;vdb=variation;vf=1367028)

Interesting that Arg160Trp appears to be limited to Europe and at a frequency of just 6% (carriers of the risk allele T, not frequency of redheads).

1000 Genomes "Population genetics" pie charts for Arg151Cys (rs1805007) (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985617-89986617;v=rs1805007;vdb=variation;vf=1367027) show it having a frequency of 7% among that project's European sample population but 1% in its South Asian sample population.

rms2
01-31-2015, 03:05 PM
rs1805008 CC
rs885479 GG
rs2228479 AG
rs1805006 CC
rs1110400 CT
rs1805009* GG
rs1805007* CC
rs34474212* NOT FOUND
I have <1% chance of red hair according to 23 & me.

I looked up the two variants for which zahra is a carrier, rs2228479 and rs1110400, in the 1000 Genome Project's browser.

Val92Met or rs2228479 had a frequency of 7% in 1000 Genome's European sample population, but 29% and 2% in its Asian and South Asian populations, respectively: rs2228479 SNP (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985440-89986440;v=rs2228479;vdb=variation;vf=1805366).

Here is the 1000 Genomes page for rs1110400 (Ile155Thr) (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985630-89986630;v=rs1110400;vdb=variation;vf=875442). It had a frequency of just 1% in 1000 Genome's European sample populations but nil in all the other sample populations except the American, where it was also 1%.

Salkin
01-31-2015, 03:16 PM
The Arg163Gln SNP (rs885479 risk allele A) seems most common in E/SE Asian populations and those with high Native American influence. Curious that I have one A allele. Then again, the Lilly Mendel example profile on 23andMe is also AG.

rms2
01-31-2015, 03:21 PM
Sorry for so many posts in a row, but this is interesting to me. Here is the breakdown for Arg160Trp (rs1805008) in 1000 Genome's European sub-populations.

3677

CEU= Utah residents with northern and western European ancestry

FIN= Finnish in Finland

GBR= British in England and Scotland

IBS= Iberian populations in Spain

TSI= Toscani (Tuscany) in Italy

Interesting that Arg160Trp has a frequency of 5% in Tuscany.

Rs3212345 (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89981772-89982772;v=rs3212345;vdb=variation;vf=2793727), on the other hand, must be an extremely weak red hair variant. It is so frequent (58% in 1000 Genome's European sample population) that, if it were a strong variant, there would be redheads all over the place. It must have more of an impact on skin pigmentation than on hair color.

rms2
01-31-2015, 03:25 PM
The Arg163Gln SNP (rs885479 risk allele A) seems most common in E/SE Asian populations and those with high Native American influence. Curious that I have one A allele. Then again, the Lilly Mendel example profile on 23andMe is also AG.

If you look at 1000 Genome's European sub-populations, Arg163Gln (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985654-89986654;v=rs885479;vdb=variation;vf=697481) was most frequent among 1000 Genome's Finnish sample population, at a whopping 17%. I wonder what the figure would be for Swedes, if 1000 Genomes had a Swedish sample population.

rms2
01-31-2015, 04:03 PM
If you look at 1000 Genome's European sub-populations, Arg163Gln (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985654-89986654;v=rs885479;vdb=variation;vf=697481) was most frequent among 1000 Genome's Finnish sample population, at a whopping 17%. I wonder what the figure would be for Swedes, if 1000 Genomes had a Swedish sample population.

You know, looking at those sub-population pie charts and seeing the American sub-population frequencies and the Finnish sub-population frequency makes me think Arg163Gln was originally a Siberian phenomenon that crossed the Bering Strait with the ancestors of the Amerindians and went west to what is now Finland with bearers of y-haplogroups Q and N (and maybe mtDNA haplogroup U5 in the case of Finland).

surbakhunWeesste
02-01-2015, 01:25 AM
I looked up the two variants for which zahra is a carrier, rs2228479 and rs1110400, in the 1000 Genome Project's browser.

Val92Met or rs2228479 had a frequency of 7% in 1000 Genome's European sample population, but 29% and 2% in its Asian and South Asian populations, respectively: rs2228479 SNP (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985440-89986440;v=rs2228479;vdb=variation;vf=1805366).

Here is the 1000 Genomes page for rs1110400 (Ile155Thr) (http://browser.1000genomes.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=16:89985630-89986630;v=rs1110400;vdb=variation;vf=875442). It had a frequency of just 1% in 1000 Genome's European sample populations but nil in all the other sample populations except the American, where it was also 1%.

So, I finally belong to the "1%" :violin:

rms2
02-01-2015, 01:31 PM
I emailed BritainsDNA yesterday to ask them what variants their Red Head Test includes. We already know some of them based on the various member results posted in this thread. I'm hoping they won't mind telling me what all of them are.

I also asked them if they could make the raw data from the "All My Ancestry" autosomal part of Chromo2 available for download. That would be nice.

The Barnacle
02-01-2015, 03:55 PM
Zahra would you describe you and your family's red hair as something like this. Google says the kid is from south-west Asia, but who knows, it's the internet.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/122/1/a/Afghan_Redhead_and_boy_by_xerquina.jpg

Redheads can be found all over Afghanistan especially in Northern Afghanistan. My mother and her two brothers were natural redheads when younger, now their hair has turned brown reddish although facial hair is ginger. I've got dark brine hair but pretty much a brown beard with a lot red hair. Our family friends kids have all ginger hair like the kid above. Redheads aren't rare but not typical obviously.

The Barnacle
02-01-2015, 03:58 PM
Does red hair have the same albino-skin affect in Afghanistan? I tend to think red hair there is unrelated to red hair in Europe. Some albinos have red hair, but it's unrelated.

No not albino. My mothers complexion is white reddish and her Brother while the other one is tanned( with a ginger beard). I also along with my cousins and siblings have reddish tint to our hair.a lot of afghans I see show red hair in their facial hair. It seems quite popular aning students over here.

rms2
02-03-2015, 02:12 AM
Well, I found out from whom my red hair variant came: my dad. Like me, my dad is a carrier of Arg160Trp (T at rs1805008). I just got my mom's Family Finder results, however, and she is negative for all of the red hair variants included in Family Finder, including Arg160Trp. She could be a carrier of one of the variants not included in Family Finder, but I have no way of knowing that.

Krefter
02-03-2015, 02:36 AM
rms2, thanks for the Busby map, very very useful!! Can you unspoil it. I'm still trying to track where in Iberia my paternal lineage is from, but I know I'm P312+(xL21, U152), like most R1b in Iberia.

Do you know of any academic studies with L21 subclade data. Or at least useful and comparative data from FTDNA, etc? L21 is interesting because it exists almost everywhere in west Europe, even as far as I know there's been little Brit-Irish gene flow in the mainland. Df27 or at least P312(xU152,L21) is also very widespread.

rms2
02-03-2015, 12:29 PM
rms2, thanks for the Busby map, very very useful!! Can you unspoil it. I'm still trying to track where in Iberia my paternal lineage is from, but I know I'm P312+(xL21, U152), like most R1b in Iberia.

Do you know of any academic studies with L21 subclade data. Or at least useful and comparative data from FTDNA, etc? L21 is interesting because it exists almost everywhere in west Europe, even as far as I know there's been little Brit-Irish gene flow in the mainland. Df27 or at least P312(xU152,L21) is also very widespread.

Thanks! I guess I could quit hiding that map behind the spoiler, but the spoiler keeps my portion of the screen from being too long each time I post.

I don't know of any academic studies of L21. The best source of subclade data, as far as I know, would be the R L21 and Subclades Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/).

Have you tested for DF27 yet?

rms2
02-04-2015, 01:10 AM
I heard from BritainsDNA's customer support today. Here is the list of red hair variants included in their Red Head Test, according to the email they sent me:

Val60Leu
Val92Met
Arg163Gln
Asp84Glu
Arg151Cys
Ile155Thr
Arg160Trp
Asp294His
Arg142His
Ile120Thr
Ala299Thr
Asn279Lys
Lys65Asn
Arg307Gly
Ile63Met
Ala64Ser
Arg67Gln
Asn91Asp
Leu93Arg
Thr95Met
Ser131Asn
Ala171Asp
Val174Ile
Ala212Ser
Pro230Leu
His260Pro
Ile40Thr
Val51Ala
Ile287Met
Val97Ile
Pro18Ala
Leu106Gln
Arg213Trp

I will try looking up the ones that are new to me when I get the chance. Pretty obviously, if you want a thorough test of red hair variants, BritainsDNA's Red Head Test is the way to go.

Krefter
02-05-2015, 03:17 AM
rms2, are you able to post the rs version of those red hair SNPs?

rms2
02-05-2015, 12:20 PM
rms2, are you able to post the rs version of those red hair SNPs?

Not yet. I want to try to find all of them and add the ones to my table that I don't yet have there, but that will probably have to wait until the weekend.

surbakhunWeesste
02-05-2015, 03:31 PM
Zahra would you describe you and your family's red hair as something like this. Google says the kid is from south-west Asia, but who knows, it's the internet.


http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs16/f/2007/122/1/a/Afghan_Redhead_and_boy_by_xerquina.jpg


Hey! Just for reference:

http://i.imgur.com/jIinDfO.jpg

DMXX
02-05-2015, 03:44 PM
Hey! Just for reference:

http://i.imgur.com/jIinDfO.jpg


That's just awesome. It's not even auburn, which seems to be the commonest variant of reddish hair in West and Central Asia (have relatives with this).

That's a healthy head of Kandahari copper right there.

surbakhunWeesste
02-05-2015, 03:48 PM
That's just awesome. It's not even auburn, which seems to be the commonest variant of reddish hair in West and Central Asia (have relatives with this).

That's a healthy head of Kandahari copper right there.

Thanks! lol@ Kandhari Copper

rms2
02-05-2015, 04:35 PM
This work computer doesn't always show photos for some reason. I'll have to check that pic when I get home. Sorry I can't see it yet.

rms2
02-06-2015, 12:52 AM
Hey! Just for reference:

http://i.imgur.com/jIinDfO.jpg


I saw the photo at last. Nice red hair! B)

rms2
02-07-2015, 12:52 PM
I just stumbled across the Red Tracer DNA Test (http://www.myredhairgene.com/page3/page3.html) from Alpha Biolaboratory, Inc. (http://www.myredhairgene.com/page6/page6.html)

It costs $119, whereas BritainsDNA's Red Head Test is just $40. Of course, one cannot order BDNA's Red Head Test by itself, as a stand-alone test. It has to be ordered as an addition to one of BDNA's standard tests.

rms2
02-17-2015, 02:03 AM
I heard from Janine Cloud of FTDNA a day or two ago about my request to start a red hair variants project. She said she wasn't sure about it, since FTDNA won't be able to answer queries about it. I explained to her that I would handle everything. Hopefully they'll approve it.

Janine said she would be at Rootstech for the next couple of days and not to expect an answer right away.

We'll see.

Krefter
02-17-2015, 02:09 AM
I was told by Patterson that one of his colleges is going to publish a paper about the traits in the 69 genomes from Hakk 2015(I bet also the Moatalas and others). I guess they have so many samples they had to make a separate paper about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the LN/BA samples was a carrier of red hair, which would be big news for any-type of research on red hair variants. Although the sample set is so small that if something like 20% of Bell beakers for example were carriers there's a low chance one of the samples in Haak 2015 will be.

rms2
02-17-2015, 02:12 AM
I was told by Patterson that one of his colleges is going to publish a paper about the traits in the 69 genomes from Hakk 2015(I bet also the Moatalas and others). I guess they have so many samples they had to make a separate paper about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the LN/BA samples was a carrier of red hair, which would be big news for any-type of research on red hair variants. Although the sample set is so small that if something like 20% of Bell beakers for example were carriers there's a low chance one of the samples in Haak 2015 will be.

lgmayka posted a Russian dissertation somewhere here that showed the Udmurts with 21.2% R1b-Z2105. I thought that was interesting, given their well-known proclivity for red hair. I wonder which variant or variants prevails among the Udmurts.

Krefter
02-17-2015, 02:29 AM
lgmayka posted a Russian dissertation somewhere here that showed the Udmurts with 21.2% R1b-Z2105. I thought that was interesting, given their well-known proclivity for red hair. I wonder which variant or variants prevails among the Udmurts.

When I was 5-10 one of my neighbors was an immigrant from the Volga-region and he had red hair. Never thought anything of it till now. Although I doubt any of the Yamna samples will be a carrier you never know. It would be big news if the Bell beaker R1b-P312 sample and a R1b-Z2105 Yamna both had the same variant for red hair, and none of the other samples had a red hair variant.

rms2
02-17-2015, 02:43 AM
When I was 5-10 one of my neighbors was an immigrant from the Volga-region and he had red hair. Never thought anything of it till now. Although I doubt any of the Yamna samples will be a carrier you never know. It would be big news if the Bell beaker R1b-P312 sample and a R1b-Z2105 Yamna both had the same variant for red hair, and none of the other samples had a red hair variant.

I for one would love that!

rms2
03-07-2015, 02:39 PM
As Krefter has pointed out in another thread, one of the hunter-gatherers from Motala, Sweden, was a carrier of Arg160Trp (rs1805008):



Motala HG I0016 CT


https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/03/07/phenotype-snps-from-prehistoric-europe/

rms2
03-07-2015, 03:36 PM
Here's how some ancient genomes stack up for red hair variants.

1. Motala HG I0013 TC - Carrier, Ile155Thr (rs1110400)

2. LBK EN I0025 GA - Carrier, Arg142His (rs11547464)

3. Bell Beaker LN I0113 CT - Carrier, Arg151Cys (rs1805007)

4. Halberstadt LBA I0099 TC - Carrier, Arg151Cys (rs1805007)

5. Motala HG I0012 CT - Carrier, Arg151Cys (rs1805007)

6. Motala HG I0016 CT - Carrier, Arg151Cys (rs1805007)*

7. Motala HG I0016 CT - Carrier, Arg160Trp (rs1805008)*

8. Halberstadt LBA I0099 GC - Carrier, Asp294His (rs1805009)

*Motala HG I0016 carried two red hair variants, Arg151Cys and Arg160Trp, and so may have actually had red hair.

Jessie
03-07-2015, 03:51 PM
As Krefter has pointed out in another thread, one of the hunter-gatherers from Motala, Sweden, was a carrier of Arg160Trp (rs1805008):



https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/03/07/phenotype-snps-from-prehistoric-europe/

The same red hair variant as what we have rms2.

Krefter
03-09-2015, 06:08 AM
Here's a spreadsheet of all the red hair variants Geneticker tested (most of)the Haak genomes for and the indviduals who were carriers. I also put the percentage of carriers in the HGDP pops and ave a link to a 23andme article giving red hair varient percentages. R151C(rs1805007) is the most popular red hair variant in modern and ancient pops. R160W(rs1805008) is about equally popular in modern pops, but we only have one ancient example so far. The other red hair variants are very unpopular in modern and ancient pops.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zPH-vy9kgyQzjyj2k5tLTRi7EyztWGScg05w9QMyBug/edit#gid=1542882145

30-50% of north Euros(FIN, CEU, GBR) and ~10-15% of south Euros(TSI, IBS) are carriers of red hair via R151C(rs1805007) and R160W(rs1805008). R151C(rs1805007) was found in Mesolithic Sweden, Samara Yamna, German Bell Beaker, and German Urnfield. R160W(rs1805008) has only been found in Mesolithic Sweden.

Two African pops, all Latin American(Largely Spanish) pops, and one east Asian pop had red hair carriers. I bet the two African pops and maybe the east Asian pop have some European ancestry. All the south Asian pops had red hair carriers. I tend to think they don't get it from European ancestry but instead distant common ancestry with Europeans.

Because of the existence of red hair variants in Mesolithic Sweden and that there's documented existence of red hair in the middle east and central Asia, I think red hair has been around since the Upper Palaeolithic. The few statistics I've seen say it's most popular in north Europe(inclu. Northeast), and IMO in Europe it's Mesolithic(WHG?, SHG, EHG) descended.

Krefter
03-09-2015, 06:32 AM
Forgot to mention K-14(UP Russia) had R151C(rs1805007). So, red hair really does look like a set of depigmentation traits that originated in Upper Palaeolithic Eurasia.

rms2
03-11-2015, 11:58 PM
Hey! FTDNA finally approved the new Red Hair Variants Project.

Here's the announcement, link, etc.: Red Hair Variants (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4002-New-FTDNA-Red-Hair-Variants-Project&p=73872&viewfull=1#post73872)

rock hunter
03-12-2015, 04:55 AM
Now I need to watch Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Red Headed League

rod
03-12-2015, 06:26 AM
My nephew's 23andme results:

rs1805008 16 89986144 CC
rs885479 16 89986154 GG
rs2228479 16 89985940 GG
rs1805006 16 89985918 CC
rs1110400 16 89986130 TT
rs1805005 16 89985844 GG
rs11547464 16 89986091 GG
rs1805007 16 89986117 CC
rs34474212 16 89985913 TT

and his hair:
4010

Krefter
03-12-2015, 06:53 AM
My nephew's 23andme results:

rs1805008 16 89986144 CC
rs885479 16 89986154 GG
rs2228479 16 89985940 GG
rs1805006 16 89985918 CC
rs1110400 16 89986130 TT
rs1805005 16 89985844 GG
rs11547464 16 89986091 GG
rs1805007 16 89986117 CC
rs34474212 16 89985913 TT

and his hair:
4010

He doesn't have any of those variants. 23andme tests for rs1805009 aka i3002507, maybe that's what he has.

rod
03-12-2015, 07:00 AM
He doesn't have any of those variants. 23andme tests for rs1805009 aka i3002507, maybe that's what he has.
89986546 i3002507 C or G GG

His grandfather who had similar hair color at his age had the same results.
His father had darker red hair and tested at ancestryDNA - same results for the snps they tested.

Krefter
03-12-2015, 07:11 AM
89986546 i3002507 C or G GG

Very interesting. From the studies I've skimmed through red hair is predicted correctly over 80% of the time and all redheads have a MCR1 variant. There must be unknown mutations.

I'm confused with Hirisplex. Most people who have the same hair color have totally differnt markers. There are only a select few hair colors in existence, I mean what are the chances all evolved like 10 differnt times with differnt markers? There must be one reason why people have brown, red, etc. hair, and I guess we haven't found it.

rms2
03-12-2015, 11:53 PM
My nephew's 23andme results:

rs1805008 16 89986144 CC
rs885479 16 89986154 GG
rs2228479 16 89985940 GG
rs1805006 16 89985918 CC
rs1110400 16 89986130 TT
rs1805005 16 89985844 GG
rs11547464 16 89986091 GG
rs1805007 16 89986117 CC
rs34474212 16 89985913 TT

and his hair:
4010

BritainsDNA's Red Head Test is the most complete test of the red hair variants. He might want to try that one.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-06-2015, 06:19 AM
I'm in the UK , South East Wales and recently tested with Cymru Dna and this topic is new to me.My fatherline Germanic,(R-u106) motherline First Farmers (J). they say I am rr :-
"You have two red-head variants
Val92Met
Arg160Trp
in your MC1R gene

You have inherited two different red-head variants - one from each parent - leading to an at least partial disruption of both copies of your MC1R gene and so you could have red hair.

You should have red or strawberry blond hair and will pass one copy of one of these variants on to each of your children. However, some people with your combination of varients donít have red hair."
I'm sandy-blond, or was before I went grey. :)
John

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-06-2015, 06:28 AM
I'm in the UK, South East Wales and recently tested with Cymru Dna and this topic is new to me.My fatherline Germanic,(R-u106) motherline First Farmers (J). they say I am rr :-
"You have two red-head variants
Val92Met
Arg160Trp
in your MC1R gene

You have inherited two different red-head variants - one from each parent - leading to an at least partial disruption of both copies of your MC1R gene and so you could have red hair.

You should have red or strawberry blond hair and will pass one copy of one of these variants on to each of your children. However, some people with your combination of varients don’t have red hair."
I'm sandy-blond, or was before I went grey. :)
John

Krefter
04-06-2015, 06:33 AM
I'm in the UK and recently tested with Cymru Dna and this topic is new to me.My fatherline Germanic,(R-u106) motherline First Farmers (J). they say I am rr :-
"You have two red-head variants
Val92Met
Arg160Trp
in your MC1R gene

You have inherited two different red-head variants - one from each parent - leading to an at least partial disruption of both copies of your MC1R gene and so you could have red hair.

You should have red or strawberry blond hair and will pass one copy of one of these variants on to each of your children. However, some people with your combination of varients don’t have red hair."
I'm sandy-blond, or was before I went grey. :)
John

Val92Met is common in East Asia where red hair as far as I know hasn't been documented. It may have little to do with red hair. Arg160Trp is the opposite, and probably does help cause red hair.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
04-06-2015, 06:33 AM
Sorry for the duplication. John

astondive
07-15-2015, 03:34 PM
I'm also a carrier of red air, with blue eyes (GG), this is my result:

You have the amino acid Leucine at position 60. This red-head variant is known as Val60Leu. This is considered a weak variant. It is highly unlikely you have red or strawberry blond hair, but you may pass the trait onto your children.

I also had blond hair until my teens as did our children who are still fair in their 40s.

alan
07-15-2015, 03:39 PM
Now I need to watch Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Red Headed League

Interestingly current Sherlock Holmes Benedict Cumbebatch dyes his red hair brown.

Not A Number
09-08-2015, 12:34 PM
I had some streaks of red hair, before it all went grey but have been listed as a non red carrier. Can anyone explain how that might be ?

alan
09-08-2015, 12:40 PM
I had some streaks of red hair, before it all went grey but have been listed as a non red carrier. Can anyone explain how that might be ?

Could it be sun bleaching. Dark hair often seems to bleach reddish.

Not A Number
09-08-2015, 12:45 PM
Yes, indeed thats certainly possible. Thanks.

castle3
10-30-2015, 05:56 PM
Just had my results back & am as follows:

Arg160Trp in my MC1Rgene.

BDNA's blurb states that this is a strong variant and I'm a carrier of the red hair trait.
My ancestors are via the Scottish borders.

Krefter
10-30-2015, 06:04 PM
Just had my results back & am as follows:

Arg160Trp in my MC1Rgene.

BDNA's blurb states that this is a strong variant and I'm a carrier of the red hair trait.
My ancestors are via the Scottish borders.

BDNA is right, Arg160Trp is legit, it's one of the primary variants. 1/6 people in Britain have Arg160Trp and 1/2 have a Red hair variant.

zamyatin13
11-05-2015, 08:56 PM
Not an exciting one, but I'm val92met, from SW Scotland, a weak variant.

Am dark haired, and no direct family with red hair, but children of most of my cousins do have red hair, so maybe this one acts as a red hair enabler.

mochynhapus
12-05-2015, 06:13 PM
Hi, I've just joined the Forum so hello. I'm from SW Wales originally.

My Cymru DNA Red Head Test says val92met in my MC1R also. Like a lot of people I was blond as a child and it turned to brown by my late teens.

My Motherline is H5a1 ("Pioneers") and my Y is R1b-S1734 ("Germanic"), part of S380/Z326

Karl

George Chandler
12-05-2015, 06:34 PM
Welcome to the Anthrogenica Forum Karl.

George

JohnHowellsTyrfro
12-05-2015, 08:51 PM
Hi, I've just joined the Forum so hello. I'm from SW Wales originally.

My Cymru DNA Red Head Test says val92met in my MC1R also. Like a lot of people I was blond as a child and it turned to brown by my late teens.

My Motherline is H5a1 ("Pioneers") and my Y is R1b-S1734 ("Germanic"), part of S380/Z326

Karl

Yes I'm in South Wales.White Blond as a child, darkened later, although I did have some "sandy" and my moustache still is. :)

6811

saxonlander
01-17-2016, 12:48 PM
I am a redhead, have English ancestry

rms2
01-17-2016, 04:42 PM
I am a redhead, have English ancestry

Do you know which variant or variants you carry? I carry Arg160Trp (aka R160W) but only one copy, so I'm not a redhead myself. My dad carries it, too, so apparently I got it from him, since my mom carries no red hair variants. One of my dad's older sisters was a bright carrot-top redhead.

Some of the variants are covered in FTDNA's Family Finder test and in the 23andMe test, but BritainsDNA's Red Head test is the most thorough test of red hair variants I know of.

7337

rms2
01-17-2016, 04:50 PM
Just had my results back & am as follows:

Arg160Trp in my MC1Rgene.

BDNA's blurb states that this is a strong variant and I'm a carrier of the red hair trait.
My ancestors are via the Scottish borders.

Your BDNA result probably looks just like mine.

7338

Have you joined the Red Hair Variants Project at FTDNA yet?

Red Hair Variants Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/red-hair-variants/about)

sgdavies@hotmail.com
06-10-2016, 08:40 AM
Hi, im new to this, I have 23andme results, how do i test in that data to see if I have the red hair marker? here are my results.

Gene Position SNP Versions
MC1R 89984739 rs3212358 A or G
AA
MC1R 89985131 rs3212379 C or T
CC
MC1R 89985217 rs3212360 C or T
CC
MC1R 89985222 rs3212361 A or G
GG
MC1R 89985733 i6051664 C or T
no call
MC1R 89985799 rs61996344 C or T
TT
MC1R 89985844 rs1805005 G or T
GG
MC1R 89985918 rs1805006 A or C
CC
MC1R 89985940 rs2228479 A or G
GG
MC1R 89985950 rs34158934 C or T
CC
MC1R 89985976 rs2229617 A or G
GG
MC1R 89986091 rs11547464 A or G
GG
MC1R 89986117 rs1805007 C or G or T
CC
MC1R 89986130 rs1110400 C or T
TT
MC1R 89986136 i5005574 C or T
CC
MC1R 89986141 i5005575 A or C
CC
MC1R 89986144 rs1805008 C or T
CC
MC1R 89986154 rs885479 A or G
GG
MC1R 89986546 i3002507 C or G
CG
MC1R 89986608 rs2228478 A or G
AA
MC1R 89986617 i6030620 G or T
GG
MC1R 89986760 rs3212369 A or G
AA
MC1R 89986777 rs3212370 A or C
CC

rms2
06-10-2016, 10:48 AM
You can check your results against those listed at the Red Hair Variants Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/red-hair-variants/about/background). If you have the risk allele at any of those locations, then you are a carrier of a red hair variant.

I did not see any that you were positive for. A pretty obvious clue is that you are homozygous for all those variants. Generally if you are homozygous for a red hair variant, you will have red hair. Heterozygous carriers won't necessarily have red hair themselves but can pass the trait on to their children.

FredBats
10-29-2016, 05:30 PM
7338


Exact same - I actually have deep auburn red hair. And yes have considered joining the red head variant project. Two cousins are on it. Though as 50-70% of the family is red haired all round [both mum & dad's side] it is interesting to see I am supposedly just a carrier.

Daisey
08-04-2017, 10:04 PM
Did anyone have the combination of variants with Arg163GIn and Arg151Cys show up in their results?

Or how about combination Arg163GIn and Asp294His?

I'm curious to know what colour hair someone would have with these combinations given Arg163GIn is considered 'weak' variant!

rms2
09-04-2017, 10:14 PM
Did anyone have the combination of variants with Arg163GIn and Arg151Cys show up in their results?

Or how about combination Arg163GIn and Asp294His?

I'm curious to know what colour hair someone would have with these combinations given Arg163GIn is considered 'weak' variant!

We don't have anyone with the second combination in the Red Hair Variants Project, but we do have one with the first: kit B82688, surname McKenzie, with ancestry in Scotland.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-05-2017, 07:09 AM
I've probably posted my results before but there seems to be a bit more information available from when I last looked. My hair when young was blond with sandy bits but my facial hair more sandy coloured (before it went gray) :) John

"You have the amino acid Methionine at position 92. And the amino acid Tryptophan at position 160. These are red-head variants known as Val92Met and Arg160Trp. The first is a weak variant and the second is a strong variant. You could have red or strawberry blond hair, and will pass one copy of one of these variants on to each of your children. Some people with this combination of variants don’t have red hair."

rms2
09-05-2017, 05:39 PM
I've probably posted my results before but there seems to be a bit more information available from when I last looked. My hair when young was blond with sandy bits but my facial hair more sandy coloured (before it went gray) :) John

"You have the amino acid Methionine at position 92. And the amino acid Tryptophan at position 160. These are red-head variants known as Val92Met and Arg160Trp. The first is a weak variant and the second is a strong variant. You could have red or strawberry blond hair, and will pass one copy of one of these variants on to each of your children. Some people with this combination of variants don’t have red hair."

Arg160Trp is the one I carry. My youngest son has two copies. He was born a redhead, but his hair went strawberry blond by the time he was a toddler and it stayed that way.

Amerijoe
09-05-2017, 06:20 PM
QUOTE=rms2;282748]We don't have anyone with the second combination in the Red Hair Variants Project, but we do have one with the first: kit B82688, surname McKenzie, with ancestry in Scotland.[/QUOTE]

That be me. My strongest snp for red hair is the following.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18560&stc=1

Here is something of interest concerning Arg163Gln. Present in >70% Asian/Southeast Asian and Native Americans. This is more than likely attributed to my main clade Z2123 which is classified as Asian.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18562&stc=1

Curleyprow
10-11-2017, 07:02 AM
Here are mine. I was a little surprised, as I don't have any redhead relatives at all that I'm aware of. Promethease did find a 'red hair carrier' variant in my mother, but not in me.

I was blond as a kid but darkened in my teens to my present medium brown. Both parents have brown hair (well, had before greying).



3289

I was very blond with curly hair when young that became light brown. According to my gene test I have Arg160Trp in my MC1R gene which is apparently a strong variant and carrier of red hair. Interestingly also my Y DNA 37 matches indicate that I have Swedish genetic connections. There has been some recent speculation that the red hair gene was introduced from Scandinavia to the UK in the Viking raids. Any views on this? please advise.

redeyednewt
05-14-2018, 06:12 PM
My dad has red hair, and so did his grandfather, and I have some red hair in my moustache and beard only and it is dark as odd as it sounds, but we have R-L21 Subclade R-DF13. I am not really sure what this means though?

When I was very young or first born my hair was blond and I had blue eyes apparently, and then as I became older my hair turned very dark brown and my eyes also turned dark brown. My dad has eyes that change from blue to green depending on his mood and the time of year apparently.

ianz91
05-19-2018, 07:13 PM
Why is there still a section for BritainsDNA/Chromo2 when it's been defunct for a while now?

Ava
08-12-2019, 11:41 AM
My grandmother was british wwith red hair

rms2
09-14-2019, 04:08 AM
It's a crying shame BritainsDNA went belly up, along with its red head test.

Terrible.

At least I have this to remember them by.

33157

And this.

33158