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Roaring
01-09-2015, 07:27 PM
Hi, according to my family sourses i should be either 1\4 or 1\8 Baltic German and rest is russian, however 23andme give me different results with high Broadly Northern Euro, i heared that 23andme is generally bad in determining german ancesty, so is possible that all my German has gone to Broadly Northern Euro, or is it something else?

http://s013.radikal.ru/i325/1501/74/e5e60f1d3efd.png (http://www.radikal.ru)

Roaring
01-10-2015, 10:45 PM
Tactical bump

Salkin
01-10-2015, 10:54 PM
I would say probably yes. I don't know much about how people of your particular ancestry usually work out in their Ancestry Composition, but I know that Dutch people seem to get an equal mix of British&Irish, French&German and Scandinavian, and many other populations also seem to get divided between their major reference populations if they're in between.

23andMe has pretty much admitted to having difficulties identifying French and German ancestry. It's one of the less reliable groups in their AC.

CelticGerman
01-11-2015, 12:01 AM
I would say probably yes. I don't know much about how people of your particular ancestry usually work out in their Ancestry Composition, but I know that Dutch people seem to get an equal mix of British&Irish, French&German and Scandinavian, and many other populations also seem to get divided between their major reference populations if they're in between.

23andMe has pretty much admitted to having difficulties identifying French and German ancestry. It's one of the less reliable groups in their AC.

They should divide big nations like France or Germany into subregions based on samples with clearly established origins several generations in the past. I don't have the feeling it's difficult to establish French ancestry. My French wife, her father and another relative were tested and they always got clearly French on top with GEDmatch calculators. In my case, above all North German ancestry, it's a little bit more complicated. I got North German as well as Dutch, Irish or Scottish, but never France close to the top. Northwestern Europeans are very close in many cases, but this is logic taking into account known migration history in the region (Anglo Saxons moving to Britain, Irish and Scots moving to Germany, Dutch/Flemings moving to Northern Germany, Vikings ...). It's ridiculous to consider France as Northern European. Southern parts of the country are clearly South European.

Anglecynn
01-11-2015, 12:41 AM
They should divide big nations like France or Germany into subregions based on samples with clearly established origins several generations in the past. I don't have the feeling it's difficult to establish French ancestry. My French wife, her father and another relative were tested and they always got clearly French on top with GEDmatch calculators. In my case, above all North German ancestry, it's a little bit more complicated. I got North German as well as Dutch, Irish or Scottish, but never France close to the top. Northwestern Europeans are very close in many cases, but this is logic taking into account known migration history in the region (Anglo Saxons moving to Britain, Irish and Scots moving to Germany, Dutch/Flemings moving to Northern Germany, Vikings ...). It's ridiculous to consider France as Northern European. Southern parts of the country are clearly South European.

Yeah, it always seemed to me that combining French & German is a good way to make the Ancestry Composition a lot less useful. I don't think they would have had too much of a problem making a French component, or maybe even a northern & southern French one, and it would be a lot more useful for everyone - especially their main customer base, of whom a large amount have considerable German and also some degree of French ancestry.

Stephen1986
01-11-2015, 01:59 AM
I would say it's mostly gone to Eastern European and Broadly Northern European, especially as my brother and myself have 5.1% and 6.1% F&G each respectively.

Tolan
01-30-2015, 08:53 AM
Yeah, it always seemed to me that combining French & German is a good way to make the Ancestry Composition a lot less useful. I don't think they would have had too much of a problem making a French component, or maybe even a northern & southern French one, and it would be a lot more useful for everyone - especially their main customer base, of whom a large amount have considerable German and also some degree of French ancestry.

I think it is difficult to find typical French or German components!
The components found in France and Germany are also found all over Europe. This is the problem of countries that have been the crossroads in the migration of European peoples!

A French or a German can be found by the proportion of the components (method of the admixture calculators) but not by a particular component ( (method of DNA testing companies)

Ron from PA
02-21-2015, 03:20 AM
Hi!
I classify myself PA Dutch (German) and mainly colonial. My self estimate is 65%-70% German. I get 46.6% German with 28.8% broadly Northern Euro. I'd guess 20% of that is German. The French/German category has a very low recall rate 6% I think. Meaning they can miss up to 94%.

Táltos
02-21-2015, 04:29 AM
Ron from Pa yep your pretty close to 23andme's quote!
In the worst case, the French & German population, the recall is 8%, meaning that 92% of the actual French & German DNA was not labeled as such https://www.23andme.com/ancestry_composition_guide/

I thought that I would have scored much higher in this category myself as my mother's maternal side has some pretty extensive German ancestry which is Colonial and a little more recent to the U.S. from the 1800s. I only have 5.7% French and German in Speculative. I have none in standard and conservative! My mom also has none in conservative and standard. She gets a whole 3.3% in Speculative! Yet my split view indicates my 5.7% is all from her. :\

Ron from PA
02-21-2015, 04:35 AM
I must match really well with the samples they have. I've read many comments on threads similar to yours and the lack of German showing up.

Táltos
02-21-2015, 04:48 AM
I must match really well with the samples they have. I've read many comments on threads similar to yours and the lack of German showing up.

Yes you must! Lots of my German ancestors are from Baden, some from Westphalia, there is at least one from Prussia. Some other lines are from Bern, but there is also a line of French Huguenots. So I dunno? I just decided to compare FTDNA's results (though I think they are inferior to 23andme IMHO). My mom only scores 4% in their Western and Central Europe category, I get 21%.

Ron from PA
02-21-2015, 05:09 AM
Interesting the majority of my German is Baden/Palatine. At FTDNA I get nothing in Western/Central Europe, I do get 51% Scandinavian however. And I think they go back further then 23AndMe's goal of 500 yrs.

Wulf Warrior
02-21-2015, 03:18 PM
Me and my father get some French and German ancestry, He stands at 2.0% whilst I'm at 1.8% on Standard mode.

Agamemnon
02-21-2015, 06:11 PM
They should divide big nations like France or Germany into subregions based on samples with clearly established origins several generations in the past. I don't have the feeling it's difficult to establish French ancestry. My French wife, her father and another relative were tested and they always got clearly French on top with GEDmatch calculators. In my case, above all North German ancestry, it's a little bit more complicated. I got North German as well as Dutch, Irish or Scottish, but never France close to the top. Northwestern Europeans are very close in many cases, but this is logic taking into account known migration history in the region (Anglo Saxons moving to Britain, Irish and Scots moving to Germany, Dutch/Flemings moving to Northern Germany, Vikings ...). It's ridiculous to consider France as Northern European. Southern parts of the country are clearly South European.

I totally second that. The French simply don't qualify as Northern European, Western European perhaps but not Northern or NW European. And yes, Southern France clearly is Southern European.

vettor
02-21-2015, 06:16 PM
I totally second that. The French simply don't qualify as Northern European, Western European perhaps but not Northern or NW European. And yes, Southern France clearly is Southern European.

agree .............and the southern French is the same level on world maps to basically Italian Tuscan area ( central italian level )

Cinnamon orange
02-26-2015, 03:54 PM
Roaring,

I think the Baltic Germans mingled a lot with the Baltic tribes early on. German became the language of the towns and the countryside kept the old languages. People who migrated to towns often became Germanized.

I too tested and 23andme and have a grandparents side that was of German descent. It seems a mix of south and north German areas in my ancestry.
Before linking a parent my French/German category was very low, one or two percent if I recall correctly. Now after linking, speculative has me at 13.9 percent. The rest seems to be a mix of broadly northern euro and Scandinavian and a little southern euro, probably from the south German.

pwm68
03-04-2015, 09:57 PM
This is the case for me also. My grandmother was born to German parents, but I report a tiny 1.4% 'French and German'. With 3.6% Scandi (which I can't account for), 1.2% Eastern Europe and 18.4% Broadly Northern European.

dp
03-04-2015, 10:21 PM
This is the case for me also. My grandmother was born to German parents, but I report a tiny 1.4% 'French and German'. With 3.6% Scandi (which I can't account for), 1.2% Eastern Europe and 18.4% Broadly Northern European.

What mode are you viewing your results. They sound like Conservative. Try speculative & or standard.
dp :-)

pwm68
03-04-2015, 10:50 PM
That was spec results, although I did fail to mention 71% 'UK and Ireland' which may have confused things!

No, my conservative results are a lot worse, 8.4% UK and Ireland, 0.1%(!) French and German and a rather annoying combo of 59.5% 'Broadly Northeren European' & 30.3% Broadly European, the rest unassigned and a <0.1 North Africa (which I find stange they can be 100% certain of when they can only compare me to 8.4& UK and Ireland!)

Gary Corbett
03-04-2015, 11:34 PM
My mother had a German paternal grandfather,likely from the Hanover area.
There was also German in a female line,back further in time.

Her 23andMe results:
Standard-French/German: 5.6%
Speculative-French/German: 24.4%
Speculative-Scandinavian: 4.2%

My father,with a Norman surname and much better deep ancestry paperwork,with lines back to the Plantagenets through Lt. Col. Thomas Ligon of Henrico Co.,Virginia,in Colonial times:
Standard-French/German: 4.4%
Standard-Scandinavian: 1.6%
Speculative-French/German: 6.6%
Speculative-Scandinavian:n 6.8%

The Speculative-French/German appears to be right-on for her,as strictly German,in my opinion.

SwampThing27
03-11-2015, 11:06 PM
Pretty much all of my German ancestry comes from Baden and Rhineland-Palatinate. On 23andme I score 17% F&G and on FTDNA I score 66% West/Central Europe.

pwm68
03-12-2015, 05:48 PM
**An update on my earlier post in this thread.**
Since receiving my 23&me results and the outcome I mentioned I decided to do a bit of research and finally subscribed to 'Ancestry' to do some family tree building. I have (quite easily) tracked down most of my ancestors up to GG grandparents and can confirm that my father's mother is of 100% German ancestry. Her maternal side is of immigrants from Wurttemberg who naturalised as British subjects in 1893. Unfortunately the census information only states 'Germany' as place of birth for paternal side.
So I think that this can confirm that 23&me is well and truly off when it comes to declaring F&G ancestry! 1.2% in speculative is pretty much unbelievable in my case!
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