PDA

View Full Version : Oracle Four Population Approximations - Relationship to Known Ancestry



randwulf
01-24-2015, 06:00 PM
What is your experience for the relationship between your known ancestry and the Four Population Oracle Approximations? My results from the single population estimates in these calculators is very reasonable and accurate. If I were to write some possible expectations based on what I know about my ancestors on paper (I am pretty certain of about 90-95% of mine), the following ones would be my expectation:

German + German + German + English
German + German + French + English
West German + South German + Alsace + Southeast England

The following are the actual "top" results that I get from each of several of the calculators (the Dodecad K7b produced a five-way tie, so I included all of those):

MDLP K23B: Basque_Spanish + Gagauz + Russian_Meshtchyora + South_German @ 0.815888
MDLP World-22: Italian_North + Italian-North + Norwegian_V + Swedish @ 0.819595
MDLP World: German + Italian_North + Welsh + Provancal @ 0.706944
MDLP K12: ETN + GBRKN + IBR + NITAL @ 1.654718
Eurogenes K13: North_Swedish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.683335
Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15: Orcadian + Sardinian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 4.223076
Eurogenes JTest: English + English + FR + PT @ 2.388730
Dodecad V3: French_Basque + Greek + Swedish + Swedish @ 1.072249
Dodecad K12b: Galicia + Norwegian + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 0.690553
Dodecad K7b: Aragon + British + North_Italian + Russian @ 0.000000
Dodecad K7b: Aragon + British_Isles + North_Italian + Russian @ 0.000000
Dodecad K7b: Aragon + Irish + North_Italian + Russian @ 0.000000
Dodecad K7b: Aragon + North_Italian + Orcadian + Russian @ 0.000000
Dodecad K7b: Cataluna + Cataluna + Hungarians + Mixed_Slav @ 0.000000
Dodecad World9: Dutch + Sardinian + Ukranians + Ukranians @ 0.000000
Harappa World: russian + spaniard + spaniard + utahn-white @ 0.678084

These are remarkably similar, I think, in the things these are trying to say about my ancestry. However, I would class 54 of the 64 populations as ones from which I have no known ancestry and in many cases are quite some distance from my ancestral locations. I have no Spanish or Russian or Swedish ancestors in any recent way that I know of. My theory is that I have minority African numbers like a Spaniard and minority East Asian numbers like a northern European (presumably from my unknowns), so the four population calculators are trying to account for that. However, if this kind of thing happens for everyone, even with long-term, single region ancestry, then this is not a good theory. I am still new and learning, so any ideas/help is appreciated.

Wulf Warrior
01-24-2015, 06:55 PM
Here are my results, what do you think?

MDLP K23b: Dane + Dutch + Dutch + Dutch @ 1.488237
MDLP World-22: CEU_V + German-North + Macedonian + Norwegian_V @ 0.581708
MDLP World: Serbian + Austrian + Sorb + German_V @ 0.812452
MDLP K12: FRN + FRN + SWD + UKR @ 2.223457
Eurogenes K13: 1 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_German @ 1.566445
Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15: West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 6.856891
Eurogenes JTest: English + English + English + NO @ 6.607267
Dodecad V3: Balkans + British + CEU + Irish @ 0.809894
Dodecad K12b: Argyll + Argyll + Baleares + Russian @ 0.925971
Dodecad K7: Argyll + Baleares + Polish + Ukranians
Dodecad World9: British + British + Hungarians + Hungarians @ 0.000000
Harappa World: orcadian + orcadian + orcadian + serbian @ 1.154673

randwulf
01-24-2015, 07:11 PM
Here are my results, what do you think?



Interesting, thanks. It does look like most of them are trying to account for the Polish ancestry in your majority English background. Several pick North Sea type locations and repeat whichever location is picked and then mix in something from further East, which seems to match what you list in the standard post. It also seems you got more "direct hits" than I did.

Wulf Warrior
01-24-2015, 07:27 PM
Interesting, thanks. It does look like most of them are trying to account for the Polish ancestry in your majority English background. Several pick North Sea type locations and repeat whichever location is picked and then mix in something from further East, which seems to match what you list in the standard post. It also seems you got more "direct hits" than I did.

It's certainly interesting though, the calculators make me look more Eastern than to what I actually am. My mother however, interestingly enough, is more North-Eastern shifted. Finnish appears on a few of her Oracles.

I don't think the populations are suppose to be taken entirely literal though, you can use them as co-ordinates? To map out an area for greater accurate results. It's been done on here before.

randwulf
01-24-2015, 07:37 PM
It's certainly interesting though, the calculators make me look more Eastern than to what I actually am. My mother however, interestingly enough, is more North-Eastern shifted. Finnish appears on a few of her Oracles.

I don't think the populations are suppose to be taken entirely literal though, you can use them as co-ordinates? To map out an area for greater accurate results. It's been done on here before.

Yes, I see that you are shifted east and I did do the mapping exercise making lines on a paper map with the two population results from several calculators (like the ones from the list above) by hand. That produced an area once the lines connected that neatly outlined my majority ancestry. It produced a triangle from about Birmingham, UK to Berlin to Northern Italy and back to Birmingham, UK. Agreed that I wouldn't expect these to be exactly right. I was just noticing yours were more often in the right regions than mine. I have nothing in Spain, Portugal, Southern France, Italy, Greece but repeatedly get them named in the Oracle 4's sometimes repeated as well as nothing at all in Eastern Europe but I have lots of mentions for them. Maybe my English ancestry accounts for some of the western Scandinavia references after looking at your results. Thanks for the thoughts.

BalkanKiwi
04-19-2015, 01:46 AM
Here are my top oracle results using 23andMe data. Some patterns are noticeable. If you want to see a particular result for my FTDNA data let me know.

MDLP K23b
Dutch + Dutch + German-Volga + Serb_Serbia @ 2.020710

MDLP World 22
Bosnian + CEU + Gagauz + Swedish @ 0.924499

MDLP World
Norwegian_V + British + Sorb + Greek_South @ 0.505982

MDLP K12
FRN + GBRCORN + RMN + UKR @ 1.810710

Eurogenes K13
Bulgarian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.041975

Eurogenes K15
Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 1.892370

Jtest
DK + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 1.322686

EUTest
Cornish + English + English + RO @ 1.505692

Dodecad K12b
Bulgarians + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.647457

Dodecad V3
British + Dutch + Romanians_14 + Slovenian @ 1.370353

Dodecad K7b
Ashkenazy_Jews + Lithuanian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 1.284827

HarappaWorld
french + hungarian + orcadian + serbian @ 1.389748

Jutlander
04-19-2015, 05:40 PM
Any good analysis or ideas on what the bigger picture is that im getting told by these results is welcome.....

The following is all based on 23andme data:

(K23b) French+Frisian+Frisian+Frisian

(World22) German+German_V+Norwegian_V+Swiss

(World) Latvian_V+GermanSouth+CEU+Orcadian

(K12) French+Romanian+Swedish+Swedish

(EU-Test) Danish+Danish+Danish+French Basque

(K15) French Basque+West Scottish+West Scottish+West Scottish

(V3) Balkans+Cornish+Kent+Kent

(World9) Dutch+Lithuanian+Argyll+Balaerics

(Harrapa) French+North European+ Utahn White+Utahn White

firemonkey
04-20-2015, 07:30 AM
I would expect English- English-Scottish-Irish
English-English-English -Scottish
English- English -English -Irish

Based on my known paper trail .


Here are my top results.


MDLP 22: 1 Bulgarian + Norwegian_V + Swedish + Swedish_V @ 1.102

MDLP world: 1 Latvian_V + Polish + French + Orcadian @ 1.027

MDLP K12: 1 ETN + GBRKN + GBRKN + PRT @ 2.746

MDLP K23 B: 1 Dutch + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 1.813411


Eurogenes K15: 1 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.428


Eurogenes K13: 1 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.163

Eurogenes EU: 1 English + Scottish + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.666


Eurogenes J test: 1 English + Scottish + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.169


Dodecad 7B: 1 CEU30 + French + French + Lithuanians @ 0.576

Dodecad 12B: 1 Argyll + British_Isles + German + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.248

Dodecad V3: 1 CEU + CEU + Orkney + Orkney @ 1.775


Dodecad World 9: 1 French + Orcadian + Cornwall + Ukranians @ 1.040987

Harrapa: 1 n-european + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.246

European but all over the place?

Jutlander
04-20-2015, 08:26 AM
Your Eu test looks well for your expected 4 oracle, but these are only first in the list, i think the first 5 could be highly viable from what i have read from some of the creators of these admixture systems. I have an Irish Grandparent whose family are completely Irish as far as know but i don't seem to ever get Irish in my top 4 oracle result. Either this is because better results are in 3 way split or simply that i inherited less DNA from the Irish side.

My EuTest and my K23b are pretty similar concidering the Ethnic groups involved and is in essence telling me the same thing.

(K23b) French+Frisian+Frisian+Frisian vs (EU-Test) Danish+Danish+Danish+French Basque

Frisians inhabit and area of there old kingdom that covers an area from North Holland, through Germany South Jutlandic Denmark. So Danish DNA from the Jutlandic area is possible similar and partially mixed. The French that keeps coming is interesting as i only suspect a French Great Grandfather but can not confirm the trail as my Grandfather has no Father on the both certificate but however has a French middle name.

Also English Kent GBR i would twin with Frisian and Jutlandic DNA, as it was these two groups that were part of the Jutish Kingdom of Kent, which was a separate area to that of Angles and Saxons for some time before being dissolved under the Anglo-Saxon banner. I have a specific ancestry into Kent that i can trace so far 1600s and with a surname that also only existed in Kent. Kent shows up many times in various Admixtures from 1 to 4 oracle designations.

I think these two oracles are better for people with no ancestry from anywhere other than Europe. Jtest, k13, and few others put in odd results as there built for people with parts of ancestry that are from outside Europe aswell

firemonkey
04-20-2015, 09:19 AM
My first 5:

MDLP world 22: 1 Bulgarian + Norwegian_V + Swedish + Swedish_V @ 1.102
2 Gagauz + Norwegian_V + Swedish_V + Swedish_V @ 1.265
3 Bulgarian + Norwegian_V + Swedish_V + Swedish_V @ 1.286
4 Macedonian + Norwegian_V + Swedish + Swedish_V @ 1.308
5 Gagauz + Norwegian_V + Swedish + Swedish_V @ 1.336


MDP world: 1 Latvian_V + Polish + French + Orcadian @ 1.027
2 Bosnian + Polish + Croatian + Orcadian @ 1.051
3 Polish + Croatian + Croatian + Orcadian @ 1.061
4 Slovenian + Croatian + Orcadian + Ukrainian-Center @ 1.065
5 Macedonian + Lithuanian + Orcadian + German_V @ 1.092


MDLP K12: 1 ETN + GBRKN + GBRKN + PRT @ 2.746
2 ETN + FRN + FRN + GBRCORN @ 2.883
3 CRS + ETN + GBRARG + GBRCORN @ 2.915
4 CRS + ETN + GBRARG + GBRKN @ 3.029
5 ETN + GBRCORN + GBRKN + PRT @ 3.043


MDLP K23B:

1 Dutch + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 1.813411
2 German-Volga + North_German + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.858991
3 Dutch + Irish + North_European + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.876884
4 Austrian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.878570
5 German-Volga + Irish + Norwegian_East + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.889582


Eurogenes K15:

1 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.428
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.448
3 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.528
4 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.625
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.626


Eurogenes K13:


1 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.163
2 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.250
3 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.261
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.276
5 Norwegian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.276


Eurogenes J test:

1 English + Scottish + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.169
2 English + Orcadian + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.279
3 English + IE + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.309
4 Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.552
5 English + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.565


Eurogenes EU:

1 English + Scottish + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.666
2 English + Orcadian + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.759
3 English + IE + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.775
4 Cornish + English + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.002
5 English + English + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.006


Dodecad 7B:

1 CEU30 + French + French + Lithuanians @ 0.576
2 French + French + Kent + Lithuanians @ 0.608
3 English + English + German + Mixed_Germanic @ 0.618
4 English + French + French + Lithuanians @ 0.636
5 Dutch + French + French + Lithuanians @ 0.640


Dodecad 12B:

1 Argyll + British_Isles + German + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.248
2 English + German + Mixed_Germanic + Orcadian @ 1.255
3 CEU30 + German + Mixed_Germanic + Orcadian @ 1.257
4 CEU30 + German + Irish + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.264
5 English + German + Irish + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.266


Dodecad V3:

1 CEU + CEU + Orkney + Orkney @ 1.775
2 CEU + CEU + Orcadian + Orkney @ 1.789
3 CEU + German + Orcadian + Orkney @ 1.789
4 CEU + CEU + Orkney + Argyll @ 1.790
5 CEU + German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 1.791


Dodecad World 9:

1 French + Orcadian + Cornwall + Ukranians @ 1.040987
2 Lithuanian + North_Italian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 1.051922
3 French + Orcadian + CEU30 + Ukranians @ 1.057435
4 Lithuanian + North_Italian + Orcadian + Orkney @ 1.059977
5 British_Isles + CEU30 + Hungarians + Cornwall @ 1.061666


Harappa:

1 n-european + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.246
2 british + n-european + n-european + orcadian @ 1.268
3 hungarian + orcadian + orcadian + orcadian @ 1.296
4 n-european + n-european + orcadian + utahn-white @ 1.334
5 n-european + orcadian + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 1.361

PureEvil
04-20-2015, 09:50 AM
My results:
Eurogenes K15: French + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 1.973401
Eurogenes EU: English + English + English + NL @ 1.950666
Eurogenes K13: Danish + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 1.814704
MDLP K23b: Belgian + Belgian + Dutch + German-Volga @ 1.864054
MDLP K12: FRN + FRN + FRN + LTV @ 2.228590
MDLP World 22: CEU + German + Romania + Swedish @ 1.365199
Dodecad V3: Mixed_Germanic + Portuguese + Swedish + Slovenian @ 2.082958
Dodecad K12b: Andalucia + Argyll + Argyll + Ukranians @ 1.826776
Dodecad K7b: CEU30 + Polish + Portuguese + Ukranians @ 1.264508
HarappaWorld: italian + n-european + orcadian + orcadian @ 1.550039
Known ancestry is English(mainly) and French... definitely other stuff as well.

Stephen1986
04-20-2015, 11:05 AM
Here's the top results for myself and my brother -

MDLP K23b

Myself - English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Irish + North_European @ 0.790512
My brother - Frisian + German-Volga + Irish + Irish @ 1.814208

MDLP World-22

Myself - British + British + Mordovian + Provancestralal @ 1.242028
My brother - Gagauz + German_V + Norwegian_V + Norwegian_V @ 0.865341

MDLP World

Myself - Romania + Polish_V + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 0.989114
My brother - Romania + CEU + Austrian + Ukrainian-Center @ 0.475638

MDLP K12

Myself - GBRWAL + SPN + SWD + UKR @ 2.143120
My brother - GER + HNG + SPN + SWD @ 2.242350

Eurogenes K13

Myself - West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.887308
My brother - North_German + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.776200

Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15

Myself - Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.944631
My brother - Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 1.636238

Eurogenes JTest

Myself - English + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 1.492737
My brother - Cornish + Scottish + West_&_Central_German + West_&_Central_German @ 2.413716

Dodecad V3

Myself - Cornwall + Cornwall + Irish + Irish @ 2.386561
My brother - Cornwall + French + Irish + Argyll @ 1.294076

Dodecad K12b

Myself - British_Isles + Dutch + English + Kent @ 0.253060
My brother - Argyll + French + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.373750

Dodecad K7b

Myself - British + British + British + Cornwall @ 0.425664
My brother - British_Isles + CEU30 + Lithuanian + North_Italian @ 1.539111

Dodecad World 9

Myself - British_Isles + British_Isles + British_Isles + British_Isles @ 0.751895
My brother - Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanians + Pais_Vasco @ 1.526789

Harappa World

Myself - n-european + n-european + utahn-white + utahn-white @ 0.847435
My brother - british + british + orcadian + serbian @ 1.046029

fil
04-20-2015, 09:41 PM
Mine are so varied, it is hard to make sense of it. Mostly seems to be two South Indian populations + Two Northwest Indian/Pakistani populations or three South Indian populations + one Northern West Asian population

MDLP K23B: Mumbai_Jew + Piramalai_Kallar + Punjabi_Gujjar + Velama @ 1.977106

MDLP World-22: Brahui + Brahui + Indian + Indian @ 4.986775

MDLP World: Indian + Indian + Sindhi + Brahui @ 4.684411

MDLP K12: ABH + GYP + UZ + UZ @ 6.210587

Eurogenes K13: Abhkasian + Piramalai + Piramalai + Piramalai @ 3.819228

Eurogenes EUTest V2 K15: Makrani + Piramalai + Sakilli + Sindhi @ 4.473516

Eurogenes JTest: Brahui + Sindhi + South_Indian + South_Indian @ 3.939667

Dodecad V3: Iranian + North_Kannadi + TN_Brahmin + Kurumba @ 1.503657

Dodecad K12b: Iranians + Velamas + Velamas + Velamas @ 2.795865

Dodecad K7b: Brahui + Brahui + MALAYAN + SAKILLI @ 1.435920

Dodecad World9: Balochi + Balochi + Paniya + Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste @ 1.535553

Harappa World: gujarati-patel + iranian + velama + vysya @ 2.710009

randwulf
04-20-2015, 10:09 PM
Hey, it is good to see some replies to my initial questions. Since I started the thread, I have learned quite a bit that has helped. The biggest leap forward was getting my parents tested. I had been thinking that the ~2% East Asian genetics that I had were throwing the results somehow. I had guessed that they were coming from my mother who has more northern European as well as Colonial American roots and that something may be uncovered that explained the source of that. I was not correct in that my mother had very little, but my father consistently tested 2%-5% depending on the calculator. The average was around 3%. The problem is that on paper, he is all West and South German and the spreadsheets have very little East Asian influence for people from that area. It is more typical of more Eastern Europe or maybe Northern Europe, but is even kind of a high number for that.

So, I followed up and got their K6, K8, and K9 information from Davidski. I threw in some questions about possible sources for his East Asian numbers and he sent back some analysis information. His conclusion was that it was not Saami-like or Turk-like, but rather more like Han Chinese. He also observed that it seemed to be recent (3-6 generations prior to my father) and was likely a single ancestor. The East Asian snippets on some chromosomes is long enough that he felt that it would be possible to get a match on GedMatch with them. To boot, he included some PCA charts that analyzed several Asian-type populations along with European ones and then my father. I have included one of the charts below. In most of the PCA permutations that he did, my father "pulls away" from the red blob of Europeans towards the Han Chinese population (he is the light gray splotch close to the Europeans). In the few where he didn't, he didn't pull away from the European population at all (rather than pulling towards a different Asian population). Otherwise, he was very West German, just as my paper trail says (so, maybe 97% West German, 3% Asian according to the DNA). The following is Eurogenes K15 single population top and four population top few results:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 5.281244

1 Norwegian + Portuguese + West_German + West_German @ 3.930258
2 Portuguese + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.970375
3 Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia + West_German + West_German @ 4.022482
4 North_Italian + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 4.050722
5 Spanish_Murcia + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 4.051646

Here are the MDLP K23b Results (I don't get four population results for him in this calculator and got only one 2 population and one 3 population result):

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German-Volga @ 4.259057

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Bergamo +50% Swede_Saami @ 2.800662


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Bergamo +25% Orcadian +25% Russian-North @ 2.066395

The MDLP Calculator, in particular, seems to be trying to throw in populations that could have an Eastern Europe influence, but maybe even Eurogenes is trying to do that with the Norwegian references (which are not at all in his paper trail).

My mom, on the other hand, is close to half English and close to half West German with the balance mostly Scottish, some North German, and maybe some French. Her Eurogenes K15 results:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 5.635840
2 Southwest_English @ 5.740459

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +50% West_German @ 3.678511

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% West_German @ 3.008091

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 2.910934
2 Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 2.923605
3 Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German @ 3.008091
4 Norwegian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia + West_German @ 3.015116
5 Spanish_Cantabria + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.020440

MDLP K23b for my mom:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Belgian @ 3.900437
2 German-Volga @ 4.262290

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Belgian +50% German-Volga @ 3.023915


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belgian +25% French +25% Serb_Serbia @ 2.238480

The MDLP K23b results seemed to deal with the English/German mix a little differently, but the 2 population Eurogenes K15 two population results were impressively accurate for her basic "two population" mix just like my father's basically predominant one population background was impressively accurate with K15.

All of this made me curious about how this could have happened. I had to do a little history reading, but came up with a plausible scenario. For starters, my father has only five ancestors, on paper, that were born in the USA, instead of West Germany - both of his parents, his maternal grandparents, and his maternal grandmother's mother. So, the proposed non-European admixture event either occurred in West Germany or the USA. I decided that the USA was more likely from the reading. It turns out that in Pittsburgh where all his ancestors immigrated in the late 1800s there was a lot of immigration from a lot of places happening. But also there were significant numbers of Americans moving there because the steel industry was beginning and kicking into high gear. If you look at the census data from Allegheny County 1870-1900, this is apparent. Also, a fair number of people were coming from California (49ers!) and China for jobs. The Chinese immigrants were almost all from SE China both to Pittsburgh and earlier to California. At the level of admixture, it would likely have to be an NPE in the maternal line somewhere with a male that had a Chinese grandparent or maybe a parent. Obviously, this is all speculation, but is at least plausible and fits the genetics.

This has been a long post, but hopefully it can help someone else doing research. Here is one of the cool PCAs I mentioned above:

4406

Jessie
04-21-2015, 02:53 PM
I don't have any other known ancestry other than Irish so here are my 4 way populations.

MDLP World-22
British + German + German_V + German_V @ 1.416456

MDLP World
Latvian_V + CEU + CEU + Orcadian @ 1.470974

MDLP 12
GBRARG + GER + RMN + SWD @ 2.339011

MDLP K23b
Dutch + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.746391

Eurogenes K15
Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.997493

Eurogenes K13
Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 2.481593

Eurogenes J Test
IE + Orcadian + Scottish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.039277

Eurogenes EU Test
IE + Orcadian + Scottish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.907846

Dodecad 7B
Argyll + Argyll + English + Hungarians @ 0.000000

Dodecad 12B
Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Mixed_Germanic + Norwegian @ 0.263863

Dodecad V3
German + German + Mixed_Germanic + Orcadian @ 0.493557

Dodecad World9
Irish + Orcadian + Hungarians + Kent @ 0.620126

Harappa
I'll add this another day. Taking too long to load.

Jutlander
04-22-2015, 09:11 AM
Jesse, i don't think your k23b looks all that unusual at all, Two Irish hits and Argyll Bute area migration to and from Ireland wouldn't be so uncommon. Dutch couldn't even represent something similar like certain area's in the uk. For me out of all of these i think k23b is more accurate in many cases.

What DNA tester did you use and what did they give you on Ethnic breakdown?

Jessie
04-22-2015, 10:44 AM
Jesse, i don't think your k23b looks all that unusual at all, Two Irish hits and Argyll Bute area migration to and from Ireland wouldn't be so uncommon. Dutch couldn't even represent something similar like certain area's in the uk. For me out of all of these i think k23b is more accurate in many cases.

What DNA tester did you use and what did they give you on Ethnic breakdown?

No I don't think it looks unusual. I used my FTDNA for most of these results. I also have 23andMe. On FTDNA I'm 100% British Isles and 23andMe 94% British&Irish, 2.6% French&German and the rest just unspecified Northern European.

I do agree that MDLP K23b is one of the most accurate calculators.

Jutlander
04-22-2015, 11:16 AM
What is your 23andme k23b? Its better for what you expected or it roughly says the same?

Jessie
04-22-2015, 12:04 PM
Here's the one done with 23andMe.

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.33
2 European_Early_Farmers 27.46
3 Caucasian 20.92
4 South_Central_Asian 7.59
5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.02
6 South_Indian 1.16


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 1.526312
2 English @ 2.894677
3 Frisian @ 2.931556
4 North_European @ 3.564795
5 Belgian @ 3.806559
6 Dutch @ 4.065882
7 CEU @ 4.657825
8 English_Kent_GBR @ 5.149035
9 South_German @ 5.396658
10 British @ 5.460046
11 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 5.531219
12 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 5.575309
13 Welsh @ 5.643486
14 German-Volga @ 6.441633
15 Norwegian_East @ 6.574877
16 Orcadian @ 6.737614
17 Icelandic @ 6.847065
18 Norwegian_West @ 7.210532
19 North_German @ 7.951362
20 Dane @ 8.154482

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 1.526312


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% North_German @ 1.351853


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.160391
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 1.351853
3 Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 1.390566
4 Dutch + Irish + Irish + North_European @ 1.434110
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + South_German @ 1.436755
6 Dutch + English + Irish + Irish @ 1.439954
7 Irish + Irish + North_German + Welsh @ 1.458758
8 English_Cornwall_GBR + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 1.473977
9 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian_East @ 1.483215
10 CEU + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 1.517697
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.526312
12 Dutch + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 1.526652
13 German-Volga + Icelandic + Irish + Irish @ 1.554566
14 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.581867
15 Dutch + Frisian + Irish + Irish @ 1.584977
16 Dane + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.592759
17 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_European @ 1.594399
18 English + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.612677
19 CEU + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 1.617754
20 Frisian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 1.630567

FTDNA

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.74
2 European_Early_Farmers 27.68
3 Caucasian 20.25
4 South_Central_Asian 7.29
5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.61


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 1.828315
2 English @ 2.103062
3 North_European @ 2.552208
4 Frisian @ 2.850877
5 Belgian @ 3.507460
6 CEU @ 3.875901
7 Dutch @ 3.962529
8 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 4.691832
9 English_Kent_GBR @ 4.692527
10 British @ 4.732500
11 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 5.106498
12 Welsh @ 5.140593
13 South_German @ 5.750781
14 Orcadian @ 5.849502
15 Icelandic @ 5.897701
16 Norwegian_East @ 5.942513
17 Norwegian_West @ 6.272954
18 German-Volga @ 6.833009
19 Dane @ 7.767303
20 North_German @ 7.888083

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% CEU +50% Dutch @ 1.232223


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% North_German +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.871963


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.746391
2 Dutch + English + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.788533
3 Dutch + Irish + Irish + North_European @ 0.859367
4 Irish + Irish + North_German + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.871963
5 Dutch + Irish + North_European + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.915249
6 Dutch + Frisian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.920313
7 Dutch + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + South_German @ 0.921252
8 Austrian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.926313
9 Dane + Irish + Irish + Welsh @ 0.946443
10 CEU + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 0.954968
11 English + Icelandic + Irish + Irish @ 0.961234
12 Belgian + Dutch + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.974230
13 Dutch + Dutch + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Welsh @ 0.977535
14 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 0.978579
15 Dutch + Dutch + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 0.992467
16 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian_East @ 1.005647
17 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 1.005663
18 Icelandic + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.006081
19 Dutch + Dutch + Irish + Orcadian @ 1.014186
20 Irish + Irish + North_German + Welsh @ 1.015316

It is generally similar but the FTDNA 4 way population has lower numbers. The 23andMe is the V4 chip which uses less snps than FTDNA.