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lgmayka
02-15-2015, 08:36 PM
This Russian dissertation (http://ibg.anrb.ru/disovet/zashita/2015/02Trofimova/2015_02_TrofimovaAvtoref.pdf) tests some of the latest R1a SNPs in large samples from the Volga-Ural region. See Table 4. Other haplogroups and their subclades too. Of course, this paper (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n1/full/ejhg201450a.html) presented some similar R1a data for a much wider selection of ethnic groups, but did not cover any haplogroup besides R1a.

M558, also known as CTS3607, is phylogenetically equivalent to CTS1211 (http://yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1211/). CTS1211 is the largest subclade of Z280.

rms2
02-15-2015, 08:41 PM
This Russian dissertation (http://ibg.anrb.ru/disovet/zashita/2015/02Trofimova/2015_02_TrofimovaAvtoref.pdf) tests some of the latest R1a SNPs in large samples from the Volga-Ural region. See Table 4. Other haplogroups and their subclades too.

Interesting that the Udmurts are 21.2% R1b-Z2105, given their well-known proclivity for red hair.

newtoboard
02-15-2015, 08:41 PM
Did you read it? Any new info/what do you make of it?

rms2
02-15-2015, 08:44 PM
Did you read it? Any new info/what do you make of it?

No, just that frequency chart.

newtoboard
02-15-2015, 08:51 PM
No, just that frequency chart.

My question was aimed at lgmayka. We posted simulatenously so I didn't see your post. Hopefully , someone who reads Russian will fill us in.

I wonder which group has 36.2% R1b-Z2015. I am guessing those are Bashkirs or Tatars (maybe Chuvash) given low levels of N1c.

rms2
02-15-2015, 08:52 PM
There's some interesting stuff there for R1b, as well as R1a, like 14% U106 for Tuimazinsky Tatars (Bashkortostan). That's odd.

Humanist
02-15-2015, 08:52 PM
I wonder which group has 36.2% R1b-Z2015. I am guessing those are Bashkirs or Tatars (maybe Chuvash) given low levels of N1c.

The Bashkirs.

newtoboard
02-15-2015, 08:54 PM
There's some interesting stuff there for R1b, as well as R1a, like 14% U106 for Tuimazinsky Tatars (Bashkortostan). That's odd.

The Rus? Displaced Volga Germans?

The only consistent thing between the groups is the presence of N (every group in the double digits).

rms2
02-15-2015, 08:55 PM
My question was aimed at lgmayka. We posted simulatenously so I didn't see your post. Hopefully , someone who reads Russian will fill us in.

I wonder which group has 36.2% R1b-Z2015. I am guessing those are Bashkirs or Tatars (maybe Chuvash) given low levels of N1c.

That's the Burzyansky Bashkirs with 36.2% R1b-Z2105.

rms2
02-15-2015, 09:40 PM
Here are the ethnic groups listed in the columns of that frequency chart on the left, from left to right. I can't vouch for the English spellings, because I am not familiar with a couple of them.

1. Burzyansky Bashkirs
2. Chuvash
3. Komi
4. Maritzi (?)
5. Mordva (Mordvins?)
6. Kazansky Tatars
7. Tuimazinsky Tatars
8. Udmurts
9. Besermyans (?)

Joe B
02-15-2015, 10:09 PM
That's the Burzyansky Bashkirs with 36.2% R1b-Z2105.

At least two Burzan Bashkir's have taken the Big Y test and are R1b-Z2109. R1b-M269>L23>Z2103/Z2105>Z2106>Z2109*
One was just listed in subgroup _b6. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ Z2109/CTS1843+ of the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=ycolorized) and another is listed in the project research tree.

lgmayka
02-15-2015, 10:42 PM
The Tatars of Kazan are 11.3% I-M253. This appears not to be solely recent Russian admixture, because they are only 7.5% R1a-M558 (CTS1211).

newtoboard
02-15-2015, 10:44 PM
The Tatars of Kazan are 11.3% I-M253. This appears not to be recent Russian admixture.

Is other recent European admixture excluded?

Arsen
02-18-2015, 06:22 AM
That's the Burzyansky Bashkirs with 36.2% R1b-Z2105.

Hi,
I think that it is not the results of the Bashkirs from the tribe Burzyan.

There are Burzyansky district in Republic of Bashkortostan today.

In Burzyansky district lives Bashkirs from the two different tribes: Burzyan (>80% R1b) and Kypsak (they are R1a-Z2125 and N).

lgmayka
02-18-2015, 10:30 AM
Is other recent European admixture excluded?
Take a look at the Arsky cluster (I-Z63) in the Tatarstan project. (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Tatarstan/default.aspx?section=yresults) That is certainly not recent admixture.

More generally, I-Z63 is somewhat mysterious to me. It is the only subclade of I1-M253 in the Lebanon-Syria-Palestine-Jordan project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Lebanon-Syria-DNA/default.aspx?section=yresults).

rms2
02-18-2015, 05:20 PM
Hi,
I think that it is not the results of the Bashkirs from the tribe Burzyan.

There are Burzyansky district in Republic of Bashkortostan today.

In Burzyansky district lives Bashkirs from the two different tribes: Burzyan (>80% R1b) and Kypsak (they are R1a-Z2125 and N).

Honestly, I don't know. I was just reading the Russian titles in the columns.

Dubhthach
02-18-2015, 07:29 PM
There's some interesting stuff there for R1b, as well as R1a, like 14% U106 for Tuimazinsky Tatars (Bashkortostan). That's odd.

Could these Tatars be of Crimean origin? (say due to Stalin's deportations etc.) It would be interesting to see what sorta U106 is prevalent among them.

rms2
02-18-2015, 07:49 PM
Could these Tatars be of Crimean origin? (say due to Stalin's deportations etc.) It would be interesting to see what sorta U106 is prevalent among them.

Could be. I don't know if he moved some Crimean Tatars to Bashkortostan, but he certainly may have.

Volat
02-18-2015, 09:56 PM
Could these Tatars be of Crimean origin? (say due to Stalin's deportations etc.) It would be interesting to see what sorta U106 is prevalent among them.

Crimean Tatars were deported to Middle Asia. Many returned to Crimea or Russia during the troubles in Ferghana valley in 1988-1991.