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MasterRoshi
02-24-2015, 12:46 AM
Marc Haber et al.

The Armenians are a culturally isolated population who historically inhabited a region in the Near East bounded by the Mediterranean and Black seas and the Caucasus, but remain underrepresented in genetic studies and have a complex history including a major geographic displacement during World War One. Here, we analyse genome-wide variation in 173 Armenians and compare them to 78 other worldwide populations. We find that Armenians form a distinctive cluster linking the Near East, Europe, and the Caucasus. We show that Armenian diversity can be explained by several mixtures of Eurasian populations that occurred between ~3,000 and ~2,000 BCE, a period characterized by major population migrations after the domestication of the horse, appearance of chariots, and the rise of advanced civilizations in the Near East. However, genetic signals of population mixture cease after ~1,200 BCE when Bronze Age civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean world suddenly and violently collapsed. Armenians have since remained isolated and genetic structure within the population developed ~500 years ago when Armenia was divided between the Ottomans and the Safavid Empire in Iran. Finally, we show that Armenians have higher genetic affinity to Neolithic Europeans than other present-day Near Easterners, and that 29% of the Armenian ancestry may originate from an ancestral population best represented by Neolithic Europeans.

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/18/015396

MasterRoshi
02-24-2015, 02:36 AM
However that doesn't say anything about the "Near Eastern" genes in Yamna, because you can replace Armenians with even Bedoins and the shared genes are still there. There are even populations such as Iraqi jews who fit much better for the Near Eastern portion of Yamna.
Unfortunately we don't have any other West Asian populations for comparison.


Also the paper states that the European DNA in Armenians is mostly European farmer. We know that Yamna did not have farmer DNA of the EEF type.

MasterRoshi
02-24-2015, 02:38 AM
An interesting comment made by Maciamo on Eupedia

This paper confirms what I wrote about the Proto-Armenians migrating to Anatolia c. 1200 BCE. They were the last major invaders to settle in Armenia, which explains why Armenians are still speakers of an Indo-European language. The other IE speakers in the region, be them Hittites, Lycians, Lydians or Phrygians, all had their language replaced by later conquerors, like the Persians, then the Greeks and Romans, and eventually the Turks, who were the last to impose their language in Anatolia to this day.

The paper mentions first signs of outside admixture between 3000 and 2000 BCE. This corresponds to the first invasions from the Yamna/Maykop and Catacomb cultures, but perhaps also indirectly from the Indo-Iranian peoples from Southern Central Asia (e.g. the Mitani).

I have analysed R1a and R1b subclades in Armenia here. I still believe that the Mitani or a related Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian tribe brought R1a-Z93 to Armenia. I proposed in 2013 that R1a-Z282 could have been brought by the Cimmerians. However there are other possibilities. I checked again the Armenian DNA Project and most members have had their deep Y-DNA subclades tested, which is amazing and very informative. What struck me is that the R1a-Z282 members are either Z282* or Z280*, which means they bifurcated from the Yamna or Corded Ware population quite early, during the Early Bronze Age. That does not concord with a Cimmerian origin in the Iron Age.

If Z282* or Z280* are also present in most of Anatolia, then we could very well imagine that the Hittites belonged to that clade. Unfortunately the Turkey DNA Project has 4x less members than the Armenian one, and few people tested for deep clades, which renders it useless to confirm this hypothesis.

I would have thought that the Hittites belonged to R1b-M269* or L23*, but linguistics indicate that they split from the IE core c. 4000 BCE, 500 years before Yamna, they could very well have been a primarily R1a tribe pushed out by the arrival of R1b in the Pontic Steppe. They would have wreaked havoc the eastern Balkans(destruction of the Gumelnița–Karanovo and other cultures of Old Europe) from 4200 BCE onwards, and may have remained in the Balkans until the 3rd millennium BCE. They would then have moved across Anatolia as far as Armenia, spreading Z282* and Z280* lineages around. In the Balkans, the Serbs seem to have inherited quite a lot of Z280*, which may also date from the initial Proto-Hittite invasion from 4200 BCE.


I mostly agree with that. And I feel confirmed that the proto Armenians are descend of Phrygians.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30911-Origins-of-the-Armenians-during-the-Bronze-Age?p=450323&viewfull=1#post450323

Tomasso29
02-24-2015, 05:44 PM
However that doesn't say anything about the "Near Eastern" genes in Yamna, because you can replace Armenians with even Bedoins and the shared genes are still there. There are even populations such as Iraqi jews who fit much better for the Near Eastern portion of Yamna.
Unfortunately we don't have any other West Asian populations for comparison.


Also the paper states that the European DNA in Armenians is mostly European farmer. We know that Yamna did not have farmer DNA of the EEF type.

I get the idea that the constant mention of Armenians and Yamna while ignoring the others is rather selective due to the following:

- Their high number of R1b-L23.
- Their language is Indo-European.
- They live not too far from the steppes.

But as you mentioned, the connection is there with other Near Eastern populations and people need to realize that the picture is probably bigger than Indo-Europeans, steppes, and R1b.

pegasus
04-23-2015, 05:28 AM
interesting